Ray Farmer: Hoyer is better than Manziel “by a substantial margin”


The humbling of Johnny Football continues.

From telling him he’s a backup to reminding him he’s not in Hollywood to putting him at No. 3 on the depth chart for OTAs, the Browns have been trying to ensure that Johnny Manziel doesn’t realize that from the moment he was drafted he instantly became the most powerful man in Cleveland.  G.M. Ray Farmer took it to a new level on Tuesday, explaining that, as of right now, the gap between Brian Hoyer and Manziel isn’t close.

Via Dustin Fox of 92.3 The Fan, Farmer said on Bull & Fox that Hoyer is the better quarterback “by a substantial margin.”

This doesn’t mean Manziel, who 13 days ago wasn’t even a member of the organization, can’t close the gap.  But it shows that the Browns fully intend to park Manziel at the bottom and make him work his way to the top.

Or at least to create the impression that he actually did work his way up from the bottom, even if he never really was as low as the team is making it out to be.

149 responses to “Ray Farmer: Hoyer is better than Manziel “by a substantial margin”

  1. This shouldn’t be surprising and shouldn’t really be a story at this stage of the off-season. But anything Manziel is going to be a story now.

  2. Kidziel is full of himself. He’ll never be humbled. Divas never do. Ask T.O., Ocho Cinco. Just a couple of turds that couldve been greater

  3. “Let’s draft Manziel, destroy his confidence, and ruin him”!

    Ladies and Gentlemen…the Cleveland Browns, demonstrating why they draft near the top every single year.

  4. He’s a bust. We just got to sit back and watch this thing play out. Got my popcorn ready.

  5. Stop it of course he is #3 and may never be better than that. I personally don’t think this kid will make it. To small and has a run first attitude, that won’t fly in the NFL. At best he’s a Mike Vick wannabe

  6. It’s like QB coach Dowell Loggains told his new bosses: “Here’s how our owner welcomed Vince Young into the NFL and how he was treated during his tenure with the team.” … And now the Browns are doing everything the opposite way.

    Kudos to them!

  7. It’s the right thing to say if you don’t plan on starting him right away. What’s he supposed to say? That Manziel is better and have him 3rd on the depth chart? The Browns are doing it right to make sure he has a shot of making it without the immediate pressure of starting.

  8. What a crock, either your scouting stinks or you are lying. No one trades into the first round for a third string qb. He should have just left it at he needs to earn his spot.

  9. As a GM on a radio station, he should know making this statement isn’t helping anything at the moment.

    Not necessary my man.

  10. Farmer and the Browns don’t have to “create impressions.” If the kid is ready to play effectively, he will be the QB. If he’s not, he’ll hold the clipboard.

    PROFESSIONAL football has returned to Cleveland.

  11. I’m a Ray Farmer Fan, since he was with my Chiefs, but the way they are handling Manziel makes no sense. All these stories about them downgrading Manziel and making him humble. Just let the guy do his thing.

  12. haha I’ll agree he probably needs an ego check, but it’s probably not the best idea to keep ragging on him all the time. He seems like a guy who operates on confidence and luck, take away the confidence and the luck won’t stay around either.

  13. Hoyer was just getting started last year when injury struck, but he was showing some skills.

    Jury is still out on both of them, but they shouldn’t fold on Hoyer just cause they found a shiny new penny they know nothing about in NFL terms

  14. The point is Hoyer is the starter and his job isn’t in jeopardy from the lowly rookie. Rookies should have to earn it. Good for Hoyer if he goes out and plays well. Manziel will beat him out pretty soon though.

  15. If you spend the 22nd pick on a player, he better see the field. Regardless of your bias/opinion of a player’s personality. This talk about Johnny “earning” the spot really isn’t the issue.

  16. Don’t underestimate the Browns organizational ability to make a loser out of Johnny Football. Crowning Brian Hoyer and his career 77.4 rating like he is a HOF QB. No wonder the Browns are such a joke.

  17. I understand you have to earn your spot, but I was under the impression that you draft players in the 1st round expecting them to contribute immediately.

    If Hoyer is that much better I’d start to question the GM for using a 1st round pick on a QB that can’t compete or isn’t ready to compete with the QB’s on his roster.

  18. Jeepers, they are just beating on this kid arent they?

    I would pull it back some before you get to much into his head.

  19. Farmer doesn’t seem to realize that 3rd string QB’s don’t sell 2,000 season tickets and the 2nd most jerseys sales.

    Hoyer may be the much better QB, but he’s clearly a dead man walking in Cleveland. Farmer can’t avoid the pressure he will be facing until Manziel is the starter.

    Cleveland wants a show pony, not a quarterback.

  20. Not a Browns or Manziel fan, but I like the approach Farmer is taking with their hotshot young QB. Johnny’s massive ego needs to be dropped down a few pegs, starting with making him sit in the green room for a long time time. The Browns aren’t going to hand him anything, and for once Johnny will have to earn his spot instead of being coddled. We’ll see how he responds, like a true competitor or as the Texas Tech scouting report said, that he’s a spoiled brat.

  21. Good thing Vince Young isn’t on the team or we would probably get a picture of Johnny carrying his pads. They are going overboard with making it look like hes not going to start.

  22. Aggies will recall that 2 years ago all the talk was about QB Jamielle Showers. Until Johnny took his first snap. The rest is history – which Farmer will be if he continues to have a loser attitude.

  23. You can blame the media all you want to. They have a job to hype players to gain “eyeballs”. There is so much competition in media that they’ll sell their souls to be first to report anything, true or not true.

    Blame yourselves for buying into it. They’re never gonna leave Johnny alone, until and unless he becomes another Tebow. Just like they built up RG3 and Tebow, then stood back and watched them self destruct. They will love it when Johnny Manziel tries to outrun a 4.5 DE or LB. Then he becomes Johnny Roadkill.

    If a defense catches him jumping up to throw a pass … it ain’t gonna be pretty.

  24. This article sounds like more dysfunction in Cleveland to me. Why draft a guy in the 1st round then engage in a non-stop media circus of berating him? I haven’t heard a single report stating that Manziel has acted in a holier-than-thou way since joining the Browns, but you wouldn’t believe that based on the message coming out of the leadership of this team.

    It really smacks of either (A) Farmer not wanting Manziel and doing everything possible to screw him or (B) Hoyer having such a frail constitution that he needs to be constantly reassured that he will have a job on opening day.

    Either way, it all sounds pretty amateur.

  25. And Brian Hoyer is an overhyped mediocre QB who got tons of attention for an average performance against a terrible Minnesota team, and an average performance against a terribly inconsistent Bengals team in what was decidedly a game won by Cleveland’s defense.

    So what does that mean for Manziel, and in turn Cleveland, if the aforementioned is better than him? It means the machinery for the factory of sadness will stay well oiled for a few more years.

  26. What they tell the media is one thing. I know people who live/work in the Browns complex. Johnny will be the Wk 1 starter.

  27. Ray Farmer from the Chiefs? Yeah, they really put up the trophy’s over there didn’t they? What’s that….Farmer is behind every other GM – and it isn’t even close??? Wow!

  28. Andrew Luck was the #1 overall pick so let’s not go there.
    But I don’t know why Farmer keeps talking, he already said that Hoyer was the starter. There is no need to keep trying to justify it…unless you really don’t beleive it.

  29. Of course Hoyer is more pro ready than MAN SMELL now. he has NFL Experience . MAN SMELL has the IT factor to win games in the clutch . That’s why the Browns drafted him. They should have taken Derek Carr instead . The Raides might be lucky in the long run to end up with Carr . only time will tell.

  30. Hoyer looked great last year! Manziel should want to sit the bench this year & learn the system inside & out. Way to go Cleveland, the new Browns!!!

  31. You’re correct, Farmer. There is a big gap as NO ONE, not even the Mannings, Brady, Brees, Big Ben, Farve, Warner, or wilson acquired a working mastery of their pro offense in 13 days or less. In fact, it took Kurt Warner years to learn how to understand and execute a pro offense and look at the stellar career he ended up accomplishing.

    But to keep reiterating such points of contention ad nauseum serves only to describe the chaos and lack of ability and talent by you and your front office.

  32. Unfortunately the Cleveland organization (top to bottom) is showing the world that they simply do not know how to deal with the situation they’ve put themselves in.

    One, they drafted him in round one for a reason. To start.

    Two, they knew there would be a media circus that came to town with him.

    Three, he’s neither as good nor as bad as the media is saying he is (or isn’t) right now.

    The answer for the Cleveland organization is to stop dancing around the situation and start stressing one thing and one thing only…competition. Let the word “competition” sink in so far that it eeks out of every sentence you speak in regards to Manziel.

    That should be the one and ONLY way to talk about him. He’s neither 1st nor last on any so-called depth chart. He, as all players, should be competing to be the very best that they can be. That it is all. Let the results of the competition sort it all out come September.

  33. They wanted to limit press access but for some reason can’t stop making ridiculous statements themselves……..to the press…….

  34. Pretty dangerous publicly messing with the self confidence of an obvious egomaniac who craves the spotlight. They may just succeed in smashing the quality that makes Johnny Manziel special.
    Very high risk approach that will work on some players and fail with others.

  35. Johnny Football isn’t known for his awesome pocket passer abilities. He makes plays through improvisation. When it comes time for preseason, and he actually is playing against defenses that are trying to hit him, then Farmer should be making his observations public. Don’t damage his mentality to the point where he doesn’t feel he is able to perform in the nfl.

  36. The greatest advantage that Hoyer may have over Manziel is that he has experience the full blown speed of professional football and Johnny has not.

    That being said, if the Brown’s are intentionally denigrating their first round pick as some kind of strategy it sure seems ham-handed.

  37. I understand the concept of not anointing the guy, but they are going out of their way to crap on him.
    I almost want him to do a Bo Jackson and say “Screw you, I ain’t signing with you”
    He doesn’t need the money like most of these guys. Hang with LeBron and get drafted next year!

  38. Hoyer isn’t in Johnnys league no matter what ca ca Farmer wants to spin..take your seat on the bench by week 1 Hoyer

  39. Then, not only did you draft a third stringer in the first round, you traded up to do so. I know Cleveland has lowly standards to uphold, but geez.

  40. Brian Hoyer, in his 5-year NFL career, thus far: 7 TDs, 6 INTs. Lawd-have-mercy! lol

  41. All he said was “now”. Doesn’t mean that can’t change. Anyone from any team who’s crowing over their rookies being the next coming Brady, Manning, or any other major player at a given position is crazy anyway. Until they actually get on the field during a regular season game none has any idea who will be a bust, who will be good and who will be great.

  42. Making him work his way up makes sense, there are plenty of examples of QBs being thrown out there as rookies and never recovering from their first couple of multi-INT games. A QB without confidence is nothing, why risk his on what is likely a rebuilding year anyway?

  43. Farmer’s public statements regarding Manziel are a bit peculiar. It makes you wonder if all the rumors concerning the drafting of Manziel being ‘the owner’s pick’ might be true. I can see a scenario where the personnel department was all set to draft Bridgewater, only to be overruled by the owner’s insistence that they take Manziel instead. The personnel department works all year scouting, evaluating, and putting together a draft board based on all their research, and to have it suddenly undermined by the owner has to leave a sour taste in their mouths. And we may be seeing some public expression of this in the comments of the general manager…

  44. This was a bone-headed mistake form Farmer – O TA’s haven’t even started and he has already decided the line-up (isn’t that Pettine’s job?). I wonder what this will do for Manziel’s desire to compete?

  45. Another sub 500 season for Cleveland then. If Hoyer is the best they have. Cellar dwellers!

  46. Why did the Cleveland Browns bring in a veteran quarterback (Vince Young), let him tryout for the team, then sign him to a contract, and then cut him before he has a chance to compete, without any explanation…. That only hurt Vince Young and his ability to sign with another team….
    Why would a team do that to a VETERAN quarterback?????

  47. Yo Farmer there is a substantial gap between you and the 31 other GMs in the NFL. At least they wouldnt be dumb enough to pass on Sammy Watkins when you have no WRs

  48. He’s spouting rhetoric. There’s not even proof that Hoyer will be fully healed when the season and training camp starts. I wonder if Manziel will move up the depth chart then. Hoyer best realize that if he isn’t ready in September, and they start Manziel. he may never get his job back. See: Alex Smith.

  49. So many haters. Relax, he will be given every opportunity to win the job. I firmly believe to start as a backup is not such a bad idea. In time if he is as talented as they say, the cream will rise to the top. In the mean time, let it play out.

  50. The new ” factory of gladness” is handling this great…..its all the haters that want to rush him onto the field so they can quell their deepest fear….” that hes gonna wreck this league!!!!! Booyah!!!!! Ya’ll wish you drafted him

  51. Calm down haters…the kid has been taking snaps in the NFL for less than a week. He will have to earn his stripes.

    Go Browns!!!

  52. You know what? His bosses can down him all they want till September but come the first game of regular season, it will be #2 under center. That’s what the league wants so it’s gonna happen. Not to mention if Josh Gordon is suspended Johnny Football will be the only reason to watch the Browns at all.

  53. I suppose in a monthor so they will make a big press event out of promoting manziel to the number 2 spot.

    This is all only about publicity.

  54. Cleveland is doing it the right way…make the boy prove himself not only to coaches, but teammates.

    If I was Baltimore or Pittsburgh, I’d be very nervous about what Browns have done…and that’s build a very strong foundation….Get some good/decent QB play, and better be very careful playing them.

  55. Why is anyone surprised? He’s come from college, this is the NFL. Johnnie Football needs to prove himself and it won’t be easy. Hollywood is over and it’s the real world now.

  56. How many OTAs has Manziel attended? How many has Hoyer attended in his pro career? It’s called motivating a player.

  57. Farmers handling of johnny IR is a good indicator of why the Browns are so sorry. That said, Manziel will flop and prove even further how inept the Browns front office is.

  58. Why does Manziel need to be humbled so much. Not one teamate or coach has complained about his attitude. If you really think Brian Hoyer is the answer at qb then why draft Manziel in the 1st. The browns are going out of their way to put this kid down while he has said nothing but the right things so far. Whenever asked about the qb situation just say there is an open competition & we will see who wins on the field & leave it at that. It really seems like they are going out of their way to make Manziel look bad.

  59. Are the Browns brass intentionally trying to demoralize their supposed future star? What ever happened to “We are going to have a tough open competition and whoever we feel gives us the best chance to win will be our QB. Whoever we don’t start at the position we expect to prepare as if they are the starter because we are in a tough league and opportunities can happen at any time.”? I don’t get why the Browns are seemingly bashing Manziel at every turn.

  60. By the start of preseason, when Manziel is named starter, Farmer will spin this by saying how hard Johnny worked and earned his spot, when in reality, Haslam named him starter as soon as the homeless man told him to draft Manziel.

  61. Yikes, a career back-up is “better by a substantial margin” than the 1st rounder you just drafted that’s expected to be your franchise QB? Think the Colts said that about Andrew Luck? I understand way Browns fans are so disgusted with this owner and team management.

  62. Delusion Cleveland fans your original team is in Baltimore with a great coach, winning playoff games and Super Bowls.

    Cleveland will never get a championship in the 21st century, Cleveland chased the greatest NBA player out of town, they have the number one pick, and they will screw that up.

    As for the Cleveland Indians, they will become Cleveland Barons in a few years because of the new PC world ahead of us.

    Johnny Bravo’s career is already ruined.

  63. You can’t constantly build someone up by tearing them down. They drafted the kid in the first round, which means they hope he will be the franchise someday. Constantly telling him that he is nothing but a back-up may backfire on the Browns if Manziel finds success in the next four years statistically, but the Browns continue to lose. He’ll be happy to walk out the door.

    Personally, I like the approach that the Vikings are taking with Bridgewater. They are installing him as a backup, but they are telling him that if he wants to be the starter that he should both act like it and play like it.

  64. Really glad Farmer didn’t land in Miami. This guy has no clue and is overrated. Good GMs don’t constantly belittle players they just drafted.

  65. Aaron Rodgers was picked 24th in the 1st round, he sat for 3 years, that worked out pretty well.

  66. I think the GM is just trying to tell Johnny to learn the playbook. Look Hoyer won games for the Browns last year he had a winning record. I feel Hoyer might actually be a starter for a year or two, but after that it should be Johnnys team. I dont buy the notion that the only way to learn in the NFL is trial by fire. I dont like the number of picks Hoyer throws. But Johnny needs to take the time to learn the playbook. Some read by his players defensive backs. Also he has to be a pass first QB to be effective in the NFL. I strongly believe Aaron Rodgers could rush for 600 yards per year if he wanted to. Manziel is probably the best athlete on the team.

  67. Hoyer Vs Manziel Check List….

    Arm – Tie

    Release – Hoyer

    Decision Making/Mental Processing – Hoyer (and its not even Close)

    Touch – Hoyer

    Intangibles – Tie, Possibly Manziel

    Football IQ – Hoyer

    Athleticism – Manziel

    Feet – Hoyer (much quicker Feet)

    Hmmm…. Seems like a no brainer to me…

  68. I understand the need for the rhetoric, but Manziel is the best player, not just best QB, on that team. Remember this is Cleveland !

  69. All of the bashing just makes me smh. If he had already been named the starter, you guys would complain and bash that, too. Let the games be played, then we’ll see if they’re the “same old Browns”.


  70. Just the Browns screwing things up the way they always do. They’ll embarrass him, try to break him down Parriss Island style and probably ruin him. I’d demand a trade!

  71. Cleveland’s treating Manziel like Houston should be treating Clowney. But, you know, they won’t.

  72. What in the hell is Cleveland’s motive here???

    I have never seen a team draft a QB in the 1st round, and then work overtime to publicly destroy his confidence. If they don’t think this will hurt relations between him and the franchise their probably wrong.

    This is stupid. It seems that they love his skillset but are extremely wary of his attitude and arrogance level. This is strange.

    I will say, Brian Hoyer may be a gem, he looked pretty decent and posted a near 84 QBR, but enough with trying to publicly put the kid down, and I don’t even like Manziel.

  73. Its pretty obvious what the Browns are doing. Letting Manziel know he doesnt run the show. Making him earn his spot. Thats the path they need to take, now once he starts, and wins a few games, then thats when youll have to try even harder to keep him in check..good luck brownies.

  74. In the football galaxy of many years ago, it was not common practice to put rookies in as starters, especially at quarterback. College football is much different than the NFL. I applaud the handling of this rookie by Ray Farmer, Coach Pettine, and the rest of the decision makers. If the rookie can prove himself in preseason to be a starter, I believe that is what will happen. So johnnie whatsyourname, have a seat and wait your turn…..

  75. This is typical of a team that doesn’t win often. However you feel about Johnny, Browns fans deserve better than this joke of a management team.

    What is it with Cleveland sports that management runs anybody that could be decent out of town…??

  76. Since the Browns have not had a consistent winning record since the late 1980’s I am not sure if Farmer is capable of judging talent. good idea to not let the Kid get a head but not as good as Hoyer who is he trying to fool himself?

  77. “We felt so strongly about how bad Johnny is that we had to get him in the first round so that we could get the opportunity to tell him personally how bad he was. We wanted to compare him to our horrible quarterbacks to show him just how bad he is, because he’s substantially worse than they are. I mean, how did this kid ever make it through college? He throws like a girl too, did we mention that yet? I mean the gap between him and my 3 year old daughter is substantial. No…I mean she throws farther and more accurate. In fact I think we’re going to go sign Tim Tebow and tell Johnny that he makes Tebow look like Steve Young. Then we’re going to go get Terry Bradshaw in camp and show him that this old man is substantially better than he is. We’re REALLY going to humble this guy.”

    There is the Joe Flacco school too. He was 3rd string, Kyle Boller gets hurt, Troy Smith gets a tonsil infection, bingo you’re the starter! 6 trips to the playoffs and a superbowl win later…

  78. At first I read the headline and thought it a line was pulled and it was taken out of context. I read the story and I can say I have never heard a successful team do this to a rookie in the press. It is the owner, GM and coach all throwing stones at their first round QB.

    Its one thing to say it to a guy behind closed doors what he needs to work on but basically trying to humble a guy in the press shows a lack of leadership and support. Ryan Leaf situation vs Peyton Manning’s situation. Teddy Bridgewater picked up on something in that interview process.

  79. If these were established NFL veterans making If the Pettite/Farmer/Jimmy are serious than they should bench him for a year like Bortles, otherwise they are completely full of it, and EVERYONE CAN SEE RIGHT THROUGH THEM, including Manziel.

    This “tactic” of “humbling” him is ridiculous and will accomplish nothing except make them look like bigger idiots than they already do when they end up handing him the team on a silver platter.

  80. I hate Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis and live to dog them anyway I can but the Browns draft a 3rd string QB in the first round while the Bengals draft a 3rd string QB in the fifth. I’d say the Bengals got the better deal by far. The factory of sadness continues.

  81. Bryan Hoyer had a QB rating of 103.9 in the loan AFC North division game he played in out of his 3 starts last season and that was against the eventually division winning Bengals.

    Hoyer is 4-0 as a starter in Cleveland counting the week 4 pre-season game in which he was the only QB the Browns used in that game (also counting the Thursday Night Football game vs Buffalo that Brandon Weeden finished after his injury).

    Johnny Manziel hasn’t played vs any defenses in the NFL EVER.

    How is Hoyer being better right now not common sense? It’s pretty arguable that Cleveland would have been a wildcard team had Hoyer stayed healthy.

    On top of that many of Manziels ESPN highlight plays would not have gone the same way if he was playing against NFL defenses (ESPECIALLY IN THE AFC NORTH) There is no doubt he has the makings to be a better running QB than RG3 but his love of throwing into coverage has got to go and whatever team drafted him would definitely have to teach him to take less chances like that (as I’m sure Texas A&M was trying to do as well had he stayed). Bottom line is I don’t think the Browns are trying to “humble” Manziel I think they’re trying to keep the media and fans in the real world with realistic expectations of him.

  82. Ray Farmer: Hoyer is better than Manziel “by a substantial margin”

    If that’s true, then the (expansion) Cleveland Browns (and Ray Farmer) were idiots for wasting a 1st Round Draft pick on him. I feel so bad for Browns fans. It remains the worst run franchise in the NFL and in one of the hardest divisions.

  83. What a crazy statement. And the owner was responsible for the pick. (NFL) not for long when you go against an owner!

  84. Johnny Bravo= Tim Tebow and his time with the Jets.

    Its all about the jerseys sales.

    The number 2 on Johnny Bravos jersey is the years he will last in the NFL.

    Another ruined Career via Cleveland Browns.

  85. First of all, I dont want to pile on the Browns fans. I want the great rivalry back and its good for the NFL

    That being said, I don’t like Jimmy ” the rebate” Haslam and the Manziel pick to be a future starting QB? Bypass Watkins to pick Manzeil? C’mon Man.

    Even getting past the pick. What is all of these comments by the coaches concerning Manzeil about? Why would you pick someone in the first round and to be your future signal caller if you felt you need to do this?

    You have made some strides but rebate boy needs to go and I still see some player decisions that are head scratchers.

  86. Why on earth would anyone be surprised by that comment by the team? Hell, the Browns will be lucky to get any value out of Manziel. He just doesn’t have the skill sets or size to be a quality pro QB, much less a franchise QB. If that’s what the Browns are banking on down the road they are in for a big disappointment. If his talent were as big as his ego he might stand a chance, but sadly for them that’s not the case. Oh well, as a life long Steeler fan I’m glad to see them screw up again.

  87. Hoyer is a very good QB. If he hadn’t gotten hurt the Browns were looking at a different season.

  88. A little late for the humble process to start. I though you learned about that in your childhood!

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