Cleveland police union objects to Andrew Hawkins’ pre-game T-shirt

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For the third straight week, an NFL game has provided the avenue for protest regarding violent encounters between police and private citizens.

Via The Big Lead, Browns receiver Andrew Hawkins entered Sunday’s game at Cleveland wearing over his game jersey a T-shirt that said “Justice for Tamir Rice and John Crawford III.”

Rice, 12, was shot and killed by Cleveland police last month while brandishing a toy gun. Crawford was shot and killed by police while carrying an air gun inside a Dayton, Ohio-area Wal-Mart in August.

Cleveland Police Patrolman Union President Jeff Follmer issued the following statement: “It’s pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law. They should stick to what they know best on the field. The Cleveland Police protect and serve the Browns stadium and the Browns organization owes us an apology.”

Other players have not been fined by the NFL or their teams for, in the case of several Rams players, the “Hand’s Up, Don’t Shoot” gesture during pregame introductions or, in the case of Lions running back Reggie Bush and Rams guard Davin Joseph, displaying “I Can’t Breathe” on their gear. (The former was a reference to Michael Brown, who was shot and killed by police in Ferguson, Missouri; the latter referred to Eric Garner, who was choked by police in Staten Island.)

Hawkins’ case is a bit different.  During pregame introductions, he wore a T-shirt over his uniform.  While that may not be enough to provoke a fine, there’s a vague line that a player could cross at some point, forcing the NFL to act.  If, for example, a player displays a conspicuous, written message on the field during a game, the NFL may have no choice.

125 responses to “Cleveland police union objects to Andrew Hawkins’ pre-game T-shirt

  1. I think if the NFL tries to fine him they might get some real heat from the NFLPA as they could be seen as attempting to impede free speech.

  2. Cleveland Police Patrolman Union President Jeff Follmer issued the following statement: “It’s pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law. They should stick to what they know best on the field.

    I would have asked Mr. Follman if the players “should stick to what they know best on the field” when they’re providing charitable services to the community, when they’re doing anti-domestic violence commercials, etc.

  3. Someone should probably remind the Cleavland police they operate in a country where you’re allowed to voice opinions about government officials and they still have to protect you.

    If they don’t have thick enough skin, they should get out of the biz.

  4. Boy, talk about being thin-skinned. These union reps act like police can do no wrong – which then adds more fuel to the fire of anti-police sentiments. Now watch Follmer try to blame this on the media.

  5. It took a police officer mere few seconds to determine Tamir Rice had a gun and deliver a death sentence. I wonder if Jeff Follmer made that statement in around the same amount of time?

  6. Hey Cleveland PD,

    One: You can judge a man simply by his occupation. That’d be like saying all of your officers murder young innocent youth. You don’t know anything about Hawkins or how much of law he knows.

    Two: It’s called the right to freedom of speech. The rule is you may not like what I have to say, but as a police officer it is your duty to defend my right to say it.

  7. Do the Cleveland police think we’re all chumps? Do they not realize the Department of Justice just issued a report on how the Cleveland police routinely use excessive force and are basically running a Police State in Cleveland? Cleveland police are under intense scrutiny, which they should be, and athletes have every right to voice their opinions on wrongdoings in their community.

  8. Toy gun? Was it a big bright gun with a red cap? Or was it an air gun that looks remarkably like a real pistol that would have forced police to treat the situation as if it was a real gun. I have seen some “toy guns” that could rob a liquor store with no problem. If the gun was the former then the cops should likely be tried for murder. If it was the latter then the cop deserves to tell his side of the story and journalists and bloggers are being irresponsible for throwing “toy gun” terminology out there.

  9. According to some black athletes and the liberal media, black lives matter. At least the 5 or 6 who have been killed by police in questionable circumstances…

    As far as the other 5,000+ that have been killed by other blacks… Those apparently don’t matter matter because there is no one Al Sharpton can come in and blame for those…

  10. Police never offered an apology for pumping 137 rounds into a car, killing two, because they thought they had a gun.

  11. The union chief has a right to voice his opinion just like all the protestors ( most who are college white kids who take selfies and giggle while they block traffic). To object to his opinion is being a hypocrite. I do believe that what has happened recently with the police needs to be changed because every life Black or Any other race is important.

  12. Put yourself in the cops situation for one second… Coming up to a person that is reported to have a gun. That person is reaching for the gun… Do you wait to see if it is a toy gun? Do you wait for that person to shoot first? You do and you could be dead. No one talks about how a kid was walking around a park waving a gun (because he took the orange piece off that identified it as a toy) and expecting things to be okay. No one asks where the parents were.

  13. truthfactory says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:36 PM
    According to some black athletes and the liberal media, black lives matter. At least the 5 or 6 who have been killed by police in questionable circumstances…

    As far as the other 5,000+ that have been killed by other blacks… Those apparently don’t matter matter because there is no one Al Sharpton can come in and blame for those…

    Good God, you are stupid.

  14. I would have asked Mr. Follman if the players “should stick to what they know best on the field” when they’re providing charitable services to the community, when they’re doing anti-domestic violence commercials, etc.
    ——————————————————
    Players contracts under the CBA require them to fulfill so many instances of community service and they get paid to do so.

  15. Until you walk the beat as a cop and know what’s its like to have people everyday wish they could shoot you, you have no idea what they go through when they see someone holding a gun regardless or age, race, gender etc.

    He didn’t know it was fake, and the kid didn’t listen to him but rather reached for the gun. Sad to say, I would have done the same thing.

  16. I saw the video. They executed a guy for carrying a bb gun at his side in a store that sells bb guns. Then they shot a 12 year-old with a toy gun. Maybe they should “know the law.” Just because you get off doesn’t mean you didn’t do something wrong.

  17. Thank you for protecting me from the dangers of a 12 year old with a toy. Phew, close call.

    To the guy that said police should stop working the games. News flash, they don’t volunteer at the games. They get paid and rely on that extra income. If one person refuses to work the game, three people will stand up to take that paycheck.

  18. The overpaid athlete should keep his opinions to himself…

    The police in this country have a tough job…I was brought up to respect the officers….. I don’t like what happened to society over the past 20 years and it’s only getting worse…. You can point fingers at police but in reality it goes right back to lack of proper education, family structure and the ever growing separation between haves and have nots…. You can blame politicians or others for most of it but it reality it all comes back at YOU!

  19. conormacleod says: Dec 14, 2014 9:33 PM

    Unless you’re a cop, you’ll never understand. Don’t worry, we will still protect you while you hate us.
    ———————————————————————–
    I’m good friends with a cop and know he does a great job serving his community. He does so without doing any stupid actions on the job and avoids making ridiculous statements like Cleveland’s union rep.

  20. police you are PAID to protect the citizens who PAY YOUR SALARIES WITH THEIR TAX DOLLARS!

    dont act like you do it out of the goodness of your hearts, it is YOUR JOB when you commit murder you damn sure will hear about it

  21. If you think White People and Black People are crying now… wait until… Hispanics become the country’s majority in 20 years.

  22. Now I don’t know all the details regarding the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner, and the police involved in those incidents were certainly guilty of racial profiling and incorrect usage of deadly force, but while everyone is focused on the mistakes made by those specific police officers…very little mind is being paid to the mistakes that were made by Brown and Garner.

    When police approach you and engage you in conversation or questioning, the smartest thing to do is to simply comply with what they are asking in a calm and civil manner. This is a step you can take to avoid a confrontation with the law, but in the case of these 2 guys it seems that they made every possible effort to escalate the situation negatively. If you choose to be verbally and/or physically combative with law enforcement…there is a 99.9% chance that it is going to end very badly for you.

    *Eric Garner specifically…he said to the officers multiple times that he had done nothing wrong. If he were truly innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever, than what does he have to lose by calmly and cooperatively speaking to the officers? Why would he raise his voice the way he did, acting standoff-ish, while eventually yelling out “DONT TOUCH ME, DONT TOUCH ME!”

    I genuinely believe that the police involved in these incidents made some huge mistakes, and both of these men should be alive right now as we speak, but Brown and Garner only helped to facilitate the eventual unfortunate end that they both faced.

  23. According to some black athletes and the liberal media, black lives matter. At least the 5 or 6 who have been killed by police in questionable circumstances…

    As far as the other 5,000+ that have been killed by other blacks… Those apparently don’t matter matter because there is no one Al Sharpton can come in and blame for those…

    What does this even mean?

    Because black people kill black people, no one should speak out against police killing unarmed black people?

    By your definition, Americans Kill Americans More, so I guess the liberal media should ignore when ISIS is cutting people’s heads off then…

  24. I support the police, too: what I hope are the majority who do their jobs right, who work hard to dispense equal justice, and who have the courage to take a stand against bad cops.

    But I don’t support a guy who was fired from his previous department because his supervisor found him too unstable to be on a gun range when he kills a 12-year-old boy carrying a toy within two seconds of arriving on scene. I don’t support cops who opened fire on a young father in a Walmart who was also carrying a toy based solely on an erroneous 911 report. When it’s synced with the store surveillance video, you can see the 911 caller was lying about the victim pointing the toy gun at people.

    The Department of Justice recently issued a scathing report about corruption and poor practices in the Cleveland Police Department, and the only thing bothering this union is a quiet protest by a few football players? Someone needs a priority check.

  25. It’s pretty pathetic when police are more concerned about what athletes are saying and doing than training their officers NOT TO KILL PEOPLE. Meting out the death sentence is NOT their job.

  26. Okay, Mr. Dalton exercised his right to free speech and so did the policeman. We’re tied (excepting the cop looking like a you-know-what).

  27. luz56 says:
    The overpaid athlete should keep his opinions to himself…

    May I correct you?

    You’re really saying that the “overpaid” athlete should keep his opinions to himself when his opinions contradict yours.

    If his views aligned with yours, you’d be cheering for more.

    The cowards always demand silence instead of discourse.

  28. The narrative in this country is so skewed and uninformed.
    The media helps to paint the picture that the police are simply out to hunt black males at any price and people take it hook line and sinker, mainly because they want some of the attention.
    Sure the guy can wear the shirt and judge the police, just as fans judge the Browns pathetic play.
    Keep focusing on stuff other than your job when you’re a football player, it seems to have helped the Rams and the Browns real well.

  29. Deb says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:53 PM
    I support the police, too: what I hope are the majority who do their jobs right, who work hard to dispense equal justice, and who have the courage to take a stand against bad cops.

    But I don’t support a guy who was fired from his previous department because his supervisor found him too unstable to be on a gun range when he kills a 12-year-old boy carrying a toy within two seconds of arriving on scene. I don’t support cops who opened fire on a young father in a Walmart who was also carrying a toy based solely on an erroneous 911 report. When it’s synced with the store surveillance video, you can see the 911 caller was lying about the victim pointing the toy gun at people.

    The Department of Justice recently issued a scathing report about corruption and poor practices in the Cleveland Police Department, and the only thing bothering this union is a quiet protest by a few football players? Someone needs a priority check.

    Well said.

  30. In regarding the shooting of the 12 year old boy, if the police had done their job properly the shooting never would have happened. Where were these police taught that when approaching a scene with a suspected gunman, pulled up to within 5 feet of gunmen, open your door and shoot. 2 seconds and the kid was dead. Properly do their job, secure the area from a proper distance, and talk to the suspected gunman and see if he’ll drop the gun. Nobody gets shot and lives destroyed!!!!!! The cops didn’t follow policy, panicked, and executed the kid. Police are not suppose to be judge, jury and executioner.

  31. Keep in mind that this is the same league that wouldn’t allow Jim McMahon to write anything on his headband. I miss those days, when it was about football.

  32. Lots of comments about the police side of the story, but what about the NFL side of the story?

    Players are free to have their opinions and freedom of speech and all that, just like all of us.

    But, should players be allowed to use the stage of the NFL to voice those opinions and say whatever they like.

    Wearing the shirt over the uniform is really pushing the edge. If the NFL does not have a policy on this it is pretty much guaranteed they will come up with one in the off season.

  33. “Cleveland Police Patrolman Union President Jeff Follmer issued the following statement: ‘It’s pretty pathetic when athletes think they know the law.'”
    Actually, it is much more pathetic when cops don’t know, or follow, the law (arresting or beating people for LEGALLY recording them; the Boston cop, who sprayed a protester last week with pepper spray as he just walked by them because they were recording them; the cop in Sandusky Ohio, who stopped a white woman and tried to rip her black boyfriend out of the car illegally – an investigation found that the cops lied to the people they stopped and on their reports -; Sgt. Shawn Glans, who hit a kid after stopping him illegally, and then told him he would “rip his head off, and **** down his throat”; and lastly, beatings and shootings.)
    All these are very recent cases, and hardly isolated. So Mr. Cop, wherever you are, stop breaking the law yourselves, abolish the thin blue line and get rid of your bad apples, and MAYBE we will start trusting you again. Right now, I sure don’t, and I am white, and have never been arrested for anything.

  34. Ohio is an open carry state. They don’t freak out when people carry assault rifles, so why would they panic at a toy gun?

    xjippyx says: Dec 14, 2014 9:43 PM

    Until you walk the beat as a cop and know what’s its like to have people everyday wish they could shoot you, you have no idea what they go through when they see someone holding a gun regardless or age, race, gender etc.

    He didn’t know it was fake, and the kid didn’t listen to him but rather reached for the gun. Sad to say, I would have done the same thing.

    —————————————————-

    Yeah, that never happened. He pulled up and shot the kid 2 seconds after he got there. He never issued a command, or checked out the situation.

  35. There is only one way to combat all this anti-police hysteria:

    Kill Americans who say anything bad about police officers

    Sure… it violates citizen’s civil rights… but… why do citizens need to express their opinions?!?

    Just get a job, get married, have two children, buy a dog, and spend your hard earned meager paycheck on Chinese manufactured products from big box stores.

  36. As long as these statements are to help shed lite on police brutality and not cops only being racist I say keep it up!

  37. The police don’t like it when people exercise their right to free speech and that free speech happens to be the slightest criticism of them.

  38. While football players and police representatives have a right to free speech, by issuing a formal objection to Hawkins shirt, the cop drew more attention to it than it could have gotten in paid advertising.
    And the Cleveland police have got a lot of explaining to do.

  39. “know the law?” The union rep is the one who doesn’t know the law. Cleveland PD hired a nutjob who was about to be canned at his old police job. CPD didn’t due a background check and now 12 year old kid is dead. Thanks CPD.

  40. For this kid the system didn’t work. The person who called 911 said they thought it was a toy gun but this was not relayed to the officer?!? The police car arrived, if they thought the kid had a real gun, there was no need to engage the kid so directly and immediately. From the video, the kid was not threatening anyone and no one was in danger. Then the officers shot within 2 seconds of opening his door.

    If you wan’t to read a stranger case read about Victor White III.

  41. I am an officer, and the average person has zero idea what it is like. We put our lives on the line everyday and get very little credit or respect for it, but as someone said in an earlier post, we will continue to protect and serve you even though you hate us.

  42. These 2 idiots were carrying real guns as far as the police are concerned. Hard to tell the difference. Do stupid stuff and you might get shot.

  43. It’s sad a 12 year old left this earth too early . The gun was not a toy, it was an imitation handgun the person was using to threaten people in a public park. Sadly the kid reached for his gun and the police had to make a quick judgement.

  44. captainwisdom8888 says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:50 PM

    Now I don’t know all the details regarding the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner, and the police involved in those incidents were certainly guilty of racial profiling and incorrect usage of deadly force, but while everyone is focused on the mistakes made by those specific police officers…very little mind is being paid to the mistakes that were made by Brown and Garner.

    —————————————————————-

    Like you, majority of us do not know the specifics of each incidents except for what information is released to the masses. In the Garner case, Mr. Garner definitely did not help ease his arrest by resisting. The problem that people have is the cops seemingly disregard for a suspect’s life while he applied a hold, not allowed by the department, and hearing his pleas for not being able to breath. In the Brown case, all we know is that the suspect, upon being stopped and in the process of being arrested, resisted, was shot six times and was left for dead in the middle of the street. This is only a small part of his testimony to the grand jury who decided not to indict him. And of course, we know this to be the truth because cops are not a part of the regular population, and do NOT lie when their freedom is at stake.

    Lastly, violence involving cops similar to this happen too often. How much more people, or suspects, who by law have rights, will have to die before it is recognized as a problem?

  45. Let the NFL teams use future gang bangers with air guns to provide the security at their games. I’m sure the players would be more than willing to call them, too when their home is robbed or car vandalized…certainly they have no use for their police… Disgusting.

  46. westrat2 says:
    Dec 14, 2014 10:41 PM

    I am an officer, and the average person has zero idea what it is like. We put our lives on the line everyday and get very little credit or respect for it, but as someone said in an earlier post, we will continue to protect and serve you even though you hate us.

    —————————————————————

    You’re absolutely right, majority of the population do not have an ounce of clue how it is to be a cop. I am not African American, but I bet you you have no clue how it is to be one. To be profiled, stopped and frisked, harassed just cause you were walking on the wrong side of the street.

    I don’t condone what these two suspects did but I also believe they did not have to die. The way both incident went down made it seem that there were no other options but for them to die, that they, with their criminal activities, were a direct threat to the lives of the people in the community. I applaud the service and efforts of good cops out there but as there is bad people, there are also bad cops who get off on the adrenaline on having power over helpless civilians and use violence when things don’t go as they would have liked then hide behind their shield.

    Good for you, hope you don’t get into any situation remotely close to that in Ferguson and NY.

  47. stupidorange says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:24 PM
    “Nobody cares what the police union thinks..”

    This is a frightening statement.

  48. First every cop should have a camera with audio on them at all times at work, and if even one second of time gets lost every cop involved should be fired.

    Second any cop who ever shoots anyone for any reason should be permanently assigned to a desk with no way to ever be on the street EVER again.

    Third only swat teams and detectives should carry guns. Mace, nightstick, and taser is enough weapons for beat cops.

    Fourth any and all incidents involving the use of a gun by the police should be investigated by and ruled on by a third party consisting of exactly zero current or former cops.

    Fifth if any cop is found to have abused their authority in any way shape or form there should be a mandatory sentence in an ex-police only jail, equal to the offense.

    And most importantly no cop in the USA should be using anything other than rubber bullets. Because even one mistake is too many.

    It is time we as a country reminded the cops that they work for us. And that the reason that we don’t pay them very well is because we as a society value them less than the people at the DMV.

    #FTP #Icantbreathe #policestate #babykillers #communitycollegegraduates #killerswithbadges #losers

  49. A Bosnian man in Ferguson was beaten to death by a bunch of Black youths with hammers. Last week in Ferguson a Bosnian woman was beaten severely by Black youths. Why don’t the wear shirts that say, “BOSNIAN’S LIVES MATTER TOO”.

    Oh, you didn’t hear about the Bosnian killing, the MEDIA won’t report it…they are White

  50. This type of stuff doesn’t solve the problem, it makes it worse. The actions of both sides take the attention away from the issue that a 12 yr old boy was killed. It’s a sad sad day

  51. cards32: Your comment would have validity if citizens did not have guns legally and illegally. In reality if what you say were acted upon, then all cities would end up under military control to regulate violence. So instead of police with handguns, we would have military walking the street with M16s instead.

  52. Deb says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:53 PM
    I support the police, too: what I hope are the majority who do their jobs right,
    —————

    I don’t think they’ve been the majority for 10-15 years now.

  53. The cops don’t like being hated? Stop killing kids who have toy guns, and choking out people despite their pleas, then blaming the victims for being too fat or complicit in their own deaths. Tone deaf much, guys?

  54. While I’m not a fan of the way cops are conducting business across America these days, I’m more outraged by parents that let their kids go to a playground with a airsoft gun, with the orange tip removed to boot. That is just plain negligent.

  55. The NFLs policy is to not have a policy until the general public becomes outraged and then they will quickly throw a policy together and randomly enforce punishment retroactively under said policy.

  56. max2157 says:
    Dec 14, 2014 10:18 PM

    If your dumb enough to point a gun (real or not) at a cop you deserve to get shot.
    __________________________________

    And if you’re dumb enough to post a comment like that, you deserve to be shouted down like the idiot that you are.

  57. I support the police but a lot of them apparently want to shoot first and ask questions later normally when it is too late. I also support the Cleveland Browns player who exercised his constitutional right to free speech without hurting anyone else with the exception of the Cleveland Police Departments feelings.

  58. Cleveland Police were just called out in a federal probe for their shotty work. It’s not like Hawkins is wrong. We have a big police problem here in Ohio. Last year they gunned down people who were unarmed, shooting hundreds of bullets into their car and a ton of policemen got in trouble.

  59. A little perspective for everyone. When I was in high school a couple of guys I knew had an incident involving airsoft guns ( that the idiots had modified to look as real as possible) that they were playing with before school. A mother dropping off her child saw them putting the toys in the trunk of their car. Obviously she called the police. When the cops got to school one kid was in class, he was pulled out of class at gunpoint but not shot. The other kid was actually showing one of the toy guns to another student in the parking lot when they found him, neither was shot. This was at a school like 5 years after Columbine, but for some reason nobody was shot. Why? Because all three students were white.

  60. Dear Mr. Follmer
    I object to you wearing a badge. It is an insult to all Americans who believe in the Constitution and who believe that it is the duty of the police to serve and protect ALL citizens even alleged law breakers. Police do not have some greater right to self defense than other citizens. To the contrary, police work is a voluntary activity and you have agreed to put yourself at personal risk to see to it that justice is done. A jury of twelve citizens after hearing all the evidence decides guilt or innocence, not a cop on the beat. Every time a police officer fires his or her weapon, that officer has done violence to justice. Every time that a police officer kills someone, that police officer has taken on the role of judge, jury, and executioner. It is NOT self defense when a police officer shoots. Remember, the police officer is an agent of the state. Every time a police officer shoots it is the state executing a citizen without benefit of trial. The state is not threatened by a kid carrying an Air Soft pistol. The state is not threatened by a kid carrying a real gun. But every time a police officer shoots a kid with a toy gun, or an unarmed kid, or even an armed kid, that officer threatens the integrity of the state by eroding our belief that police are here to serve and protect, and to do justice.

    Please take off your badge sir and find another line of work for which you may be more suited.

  61. Whose Andrew Hawkins ????
    Meanwhile 10 people over the weekend most likely killed in Chicago . But black lives matter… Whatever.. Just glad there are Charles barkleys who have a clue….
    The browns are a joke… As always

  62. The players are not criticizing the police. They saying, accurately in my opinion, that enough doubt exists in the situations that the grand juries should have passed on the indictment to a full jury trial where all the facts could have been examined and ruled upon properly.

    We need to thank these athletes for having social consciousness about the community and world they live in. They could easily sit back and enjoy the huge paychecks they receive. But instead they “give a damn” about the world they live in..

  63. denverscott says:
    Dec 14, 2014 11:56 PM

    While I’m not a fan of the way cops are conducting business across America these days, I’m more outraged by parents that let their kids go to a playground with a airsoft gun, with the orange tip removed to boot. That is just plain negligent.
    __________________________________

    A kid from a relatively poor family may have received the pellet gun with the t[p already removed from Goodwill or a thrift store.
    When my kids were his age they shot space aliens and Indians and who-knows- what else when they played.
    They key here is that they are kids. The police officer needs to use adult judgment and remember his training in any situation.
    I’d be willing to bet that pulling up within a few feet of a suspect suddenly, and the firing your weapon within 2 seconds in not in the training manual.

  64. I am born and raised in Cleveland, not my fault,lol. I have to say that VIOLENT Black on White crime is very high here. Tensions have been very high here with for 20 years. 4 or 5 officers have been killed by Black men! With that being said, the CPD should not have hired that timebomb! TOTALLY incompetent hiring process!!!!!!

  65. I have a hard job. I must make diagnoses on patients. If I make a mistake and miss something, I will be sued and go to court to decide if I should be made to pay for my mistake or if it was just an accident.

    If a man makes a mistake and accidently kills someone, they are charged and go to court to determine if they should be made to pay or if it was an accident.

    A cop has a hard job. If he makes a mistake and kills someone, it should follow that he too should be charged and go to court to determine if he should be made to pay.

    What is so hard to understand about that?

    At least in Ohio, 2 black males-one only a boy- are dead because someone got scared. In one case, there were outright lies about what the young man was doing and in the other, the information was never passed along but in both cases, the police went in guns blazing within seconds and innocent people were killed.

    I understand why he wore the shirt.

  66. The police are doing their jobs and I applaud them for it. These people they are shooting are aiming guns – toys or not at police and DESERVE TO BE SHOT!
    The police do not know in a split second if its a toy or not – especially if you remove the brightly covered tip that identifies it s a toy.
    Should a cop hesitate and get killed because he hesitates – NO he should not.
    Bottom line – assault a police officer or aim a gun at him – real or otherwise – expect to be shot!
    Its really quite that simple! To deny that is to deny logic.
    By a dog and call him “Clue”, then maybe you will finally have one!

  67. If the police union really wants protests like this to stop, they need to end their policy of supporting EVERY cop in EVERY situation regardless of circumstances. They currently have all the credibility of the mother of a murder suspect “not my son…. he could never have done such a thing..” … yeah, riiiiiiight….

    The minute we begin to believe that the police union is actually interested in weeding ‘bad cops’ out of the ranks, and possibly ending the kind of behavior we have seen all to often in the news recently is the moment they will get ANY respect from the public. As of this moment, we think of them in much the same way as we do about the defense attorney for the local mafia boss… just shills for people doing bad things…

  68. I will entertain the folks here who vehemently suggest that following cops’ orders would have prevented these incidents. That Brown and Gardner should not have resisted, if they did, they obviously would be alive. That the kid in Cleveland should not have been playing with a toy that is a perfect replica of a gun.

    Going with the logic of these, evidently, intelligent folks, because these individuals exercised their rights, even as suspects, but more importantly, as Americans, their killings were justified. You break the law, you don’t respond rightfully to cops orders, YOU SHOULD BE KILLED. I see why there’s a socio-economic divide amongst us.

    God Help Us!!!

  69. You can absolutely view a picture of the gun the 12 year old kid had. It looks exactly like real gun. Exactly. It’s metal, not plastic. I am not justifying his shooting by sharing this. Just asking, if you are an officer called to a scene where it’s reported someone has a gun and is waving it around…real or fake…you’re supposed to what? Wait until he shoots you to determine if it s real? It’s unfortunate, but if you are waving a gun in public, this is what CAN happen. Why is this shocking? It’s unfortunate, but not shocking.

  70. Um, I doubt many people here would want the jobs that some of these cops have to do. When u have to wear a bullet proof vest to patrol some of these areas, u have some major guts. It’s easy to come onto message boards and be anti-police while you’re in your parents basement far away from the scum that cops protect us from. The Compton police department is taking applications if u want to try it out.

  71. All the people who use the he was waving a gun. If you think that hasn’t happened before then either your an idiot or nieve. The cops aren’t suppose to come up and shoot somebody before assessing the situation they usually stand back and then figure out the best plan of action then attack. Instead of figuring out if it was fake like the 911 caller said they came up shooting. There’s no way the felt threatened if they go through the right steps. AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE TAKING THE COPS SIDE ARE WHITE LIVE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY FOR A YEAR OR STEP IN THERE SHOES. Your reality is not the reality that we blacks go through, Especially since most non-blacks think that its not a problem since there reaping the benefits of the constant Oppression of blacks in America. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!

  72. These things are only happening at this rate in America.

    We are awash in guns – no one can deny that. This officer assumed the child was armed, because in America chances are that he was.

    So – why hasn’t it made us safer?

  73. I heard one cop say that to shoot in the thigh was out of the question because he’d just get sued for maliciously wounding. We are in a sad state in this country. The two people on Hawkins shirt, Tamir Rice & John Crawford III, were shot and killed with NO WARNING.

    There was no yelling of, “Police!”; or “Drop your weapon!”; or “Don’t move!” No. Tamir Rice was killed within 5 seconds of the cop leaving his car with no warning. The 911 call said it was probably a toy gun, but the cop went for the kill and the police union went for the cover up. John Crawford was killed while walking around Walmart with a toy gun while not even holding it threateningly. In that case, some idiot called 911 unnecessarily and got someone killed.

    The worst thing a police union, or any union is cover for a bad cop, but they do it all the time. They supress evidence to strenthen their points, and cops of all levels, including IA, are not trying to appear to be traitors. It’s pathetic. You don’t roll up on a person with a gun and shoot, you stand far enough away to be out of danger, announce your presence and use deadly force when fired upon.

    I was in the military, and there were strict Rules of Engagement procedures which neither cop in the Rice, Crawford case followed, nor was ROE procedures followed for Brown or Garner. The police training in this country needs to be redone, complete with psych evals. If the Army or Marines can’t walk into Baghdad or Afghanistan and shoot first then ask questions later, and those guys are in REAL danger in those countries, how can an American policeman drive up and shoot first with no warning or even an announcement of your presence – and then receive no punishment on top of it. Had I done that while serving in Iraqi Freedom I’d be in trouble.

  74. rcali says:

    Um, I doubt many people here would want the jobs that some of these cops have to do. When u have to wear a bullet proof vest to patrol some of these areas, u have some major guts. It’s easy to come onto message boards and be anti-police while you’re in your parents basement far away from the scum that cops protect us from. The Compton police department is taking applications if u want to try it out.

    —————————————–

    It is quite easy to come into message boards such as this and voice one’s opinion and disapproval for cops using any and every excuse to justify killing someone. And yes, you are absolutely correct, cops are there to protect us from scums that roam our streets.

    I just want to know, since you certainly have the backs of ALL of these honest, courageous, and respectful, lawmen, who is supposed to protect us from them? When they seemingly decide to be judge, jury and executioner.

    Cop involved killings, where the suspects cannot give their side of the story since they’re dead, happen all the time. It happens to all kinds of people. This is a problem onto itself. Cops should not be killing people. If you think otherwise then you are part of the problem.

    See, I can understand why a lot of people support these cops, and it definitely is because these avid supporters are the same ones that have never been on the other end of an interaction with a cop where you are made to feel like you have no rights.

    Carry on with your undying praises for these cops, just don’t come back one day and say anything different when these same cops mistreat you or, God forbid, anyone close to you.

  75. @ godofwine330

    I totally agree. A big part of the problem with these investigations are the handling and those people put in charge to conduct them. In the Staten Island case, for the prosecutor to persuade for an indictment, he or she would have had to make a strong case for the cop committing something that is deemed “illegal” by the department.

    Obviously, he didn’t do such a great job as even a video purporting an illegal maneuver (leading to the suspect’s demise) wasn’t enough to indict.

    In everyone’s world, it seems, outside of the police departments, when one does not follow Standard Protocol, there will be mistakes and errors that normally leads to repercussions including reprimand. This happens and is part of every HR policy in any company in existence. This, apparently, does not apply to the men and women of law enforcement, since no culpability is warranted for their seemingly reckless actions.

  76. Good for the police, I hope they decide to say NFL players we will no longer police at your games and good luck. You are supporting people who are doing something wrong or they will not be in the eye of the police.

  77. Neither Tamir or Crawford were breaki9ng the law or causing trouble.
    So your uninformed premise is false.

  78. ljohnson1231 says:
    Dec 15, 2014 11:52 AM
    All the people who use the he was waving a gun. If you think that hasn’t happened before then either your an idiot or nieve. The cops aren’t suppose to come up and shoot somebody before assessing the situation they usually stand back and then figure out the best plan of action then attack. Instead of figuring out if it was fake like the 911 caller said they came up shooting. There’s no way the felt threatened if they go through the right steps. AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE TAKING THE COPS SIDE ARE WHITE LIVE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY FOR A YEAR OR STEP IN THERE SHOES. Your reality is not the reality that we blacks go through, Especially since most non-blacks think that its not a problem since there reaping the benefits of the constant Oppression of blacks in America. OPEN YOUR EYES!!!!!
    ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    A paragraph full of assumptions…and you calling others naive and idiots…get real. Everyone’s reality, is the same, that’s why it’s called—reality—circumstances may be different, but everyone’s reality is the same. You can speak your mind in this country, you can work to get anything you want in this country as well, and yes, sadly there is a racial divide in this country. It is something that needs work, and to be addressed, but just don’t sit there and feel sorry for yourself expecting it happen. Do something positive to change your situation. And before you cry racism, or I don’t understand at all, I am a minority, doesn’t matter what ethnicity…because I was taught right from wrong, and how to work for what I wanted in life. That is not something that only “non-blacks” as you call them, get. That’s free to anyone who wants to put in the effort despite the odds against them.

  79. If cops are scared for their lives, maybe they should find a new occupation. As those in the military, they expect to be shot at and blown up at any moment.

    I don’t see how ANY cop can step out of a car and in 1.5 seconds assess the 12-year holding a gun, know that it is real, and shoot the kid. Just a scared cop. I’ve run across people with guns (in public) and it doesn’t phase me one bit. I carry and I stay away of my surroundings at all times. If I saw a 12-year old black kid with that fake gun, I would at least get a closer look before I shot the kid.

    I’m not a tough guy or anything like that, but I completely assess a situation BEFORE I pull out my gun.

    The cop has body armor on, surely he can take an extra 5 seconds to assess his surroundings, rather than just exit the car blasting his gun. This cop belongs in jail.

  80. bernieknowsfootball says:

    if your not causing trouble or breaking the law, you won’t get shot, period.

    —————————————————-
    Well, obviously, that is not true.

    Tamir Rice was a 12-year-old child playing with a toy in a park near his home. A police officer determined to be unstable by his previous department drove up and immediately shot him dead. How was this child causing trouble? How was he breaking the law? He was alone, playing with a toy. He wasn’t pointing the toy at anyone. Does anyone here actually believe that an officer who opened fire within two seconds would have seen the orange tip if it had been attached??? Of course, not. He didn’t even bother to ask the child to put down the weapon.

    John Crawford was wandering around Walmart holding a toy gun and talking on a cell phone. He wasn’t waving the toy gun at anyone. The cops ran in and shot him on sight without ever instructing him to drop the gun. How was he causing trouble? How was he breaking the law?

    Many of the people commenting on these cases have no idea what actually happened, and the facts don’t matter because it didn’t happen to anyone they care about.

  81. shotgunnoblitz says:
    Dec 14, 2014 9:17 PM
    I think if the NFL tries to fine him they might get some real heat from the NFLPA as they could be seen as attempting to impede free speech.

    ____________________

    You don’t have the right to free speech at work. Don’t like it find another job.

  82. Deb says:
    Dec 15, 2014 3:00 PM
    bernieknowsfootball says:

    if your not causing trouble or breaking the law, you won’t get shot, period.

    —————————————————-
    Well, obviously, that is not true.

    Tamir Rice was a 12-year-old child playing with a toy in a park near his home. A police officer determined to be unstable by his previous department drove up and immediately shot him dead. How was this child causing trouble? How was he breaking the law? He was alone, playing with a toy. He wasn’t pointing the toy at anyone. Does anyone here actually believe that an officer who opened fire within two seconds would have seen the orange tip if it had been attached??? Of course, not. He didn’t even bother to ask the child to put down the weapon.

    John Crawford was wandering around Walmart holding a toy gun and talking on a cell phone. He wasn’t waving the toy gun at anyone. The cops ran in and shot him on sight without ever instructing him to drop the gun. How was he causing trouble? How was he breaking the law?

    Many of the people commenting on these cases have no idea what actually happened, and the facts don’t matter because it didn’t happen to anyone they care about.

    _________________________________

    Tamir Rice was a 12-year-old child playing with a toy gun in a park near his home. Tamir was attempting make other kids afraid by making it appear to be a real gun. The 911 operator never told the officer the gun was toy or could be fake. The officer took the appropriate action under the information he was given. The biggest question was were where Rices parents during all of this?

    John Crawford had a rap sheet a mile long including prior weapons charges. Piece of garbage got what he wanted. I don’t care who you are who walks in walmart with an airsoft gun not in a bag or box? Dude was all drugged out as well.

    Hawkins is a fool. Ignorant fool.

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