Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game

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Lost amid the furor over #DeflateGate is New England’s newfound penchant for playing the ineligible-eligible receiver game. Whether it’s a player wearing an ineligible number reporting as an eligible receiver or a player wearing an eligible number reporting as an ineligible receiver, the Patriots have begun aggressively using the tactic in an obvious effort to confuse defenses regarding who will be running a pass route and who won’t be.

“The NFL is going to have to do something about the Patriots’ ineligible-eligible substitution game,” former NFL head coach and current NBC Sports analyst Tony Dungy told PFT by email on Friday. “It is nothing but an intent to deceive and they are doing it very well.  They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond.  In fact, the officials can’t keep up.”

Dungy believes the officials missed at least one foul with this maneuver during the postseason.

“In the Baltimore game, [Shane] Vereen reported as ineligible several times,” Dungy explained. “If he stays in the game he must report again and continue to be ineligible. He must come out of the game for one play or there has to be a time out for him to play as an eligible receiver. On the touchdown drive Vereen played one play as ineligible and then played the next play in an eligible position. There should have been a penalty.”

Dungy also believed initially that the officials had missed an illegal formation foul on the Nate Solder play in the AFC title game (as folks like Jim Miller of SiriusXM NFL Radio have suggested), but Dungy has since become satisfied that receiver Brandon LaFell was close enough behind the line of scrimmage to not be “covering up” Solder, who was an eligible receiver on the play.

Dungy also noted that Cameron Fleming, who wears No. 71, had reported as eligible on the play before the Solder touchdown.  Fleming then stayed in the game on the next snap, returning to an ineligible position.  Because, as Dungy explained it, an administrative stoppage occurred between the two plays, Fleming was able to revert from eligible to ineligible.

The broader problem is that the Patriots, specifically against Baltimore, combined the legal ineligible-eligible receiver maneuver with a hurry-up offense to confuse both the defense and the officials.  At field level, the audio from the referee’s microphone isn’t as clear as it is for folks in the seats or who are watching the game at home.  Along with the overall confusion that arises when a team tries to snap the ball quickly, it becomes too much for a defense to fairly process — which is one of the reasons New England does it.

In Dungy’s view, it’s no different than making quick personnel changes in a no-huddle attack or using extra players in the huddle who run off the field seconds before the snap. The defense needs to have a fair chance to know who they’ll be facing, and until the NFL stops the Patriots from deliberately confusing defenses and rushing to the line to snap the ball, the only way to combat the scheme will be for defenses to bend a rule or two of their own.

Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.

“It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it rather than have the NFL issue an apology the next day after we lost a Super Bowl,” Dungy said, adding he would do it only as a last resort.

The fact that Dungy would even consider that approach proves how strongly he feels about a tactic he believes the NFL should prevent the Patriots from utilizing in Super Bowl XLIX.

UPDATE 1/24/15 7:42 a.m. ET:  Coach Dungy has reconsidered his position for dealing with the substitution ploy. “I apologize for suggesting an illegal tactic to counteract this,” Dungy said via email. “That is not the way to handle it. The proper thing is to address it in the offseason with the Competition Committee. I’m sure that will be done by the coaches but I’m sorry for my comments that weren’t well thought out.”

350 responses to “Dungy: NFL needs to restrict New England’s substitution game

  1. Knowing that Brady cheated, I wonder how the refs are going to enforce roughing the passer penalties. If I were the Seahawks I’d test the limits. The Patriots certainly have no problem testing or exceeding limits.

  2. Why isn’t the headline that Tony Dungy would willingly coach his players to cheat? WHAT ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE GAME?!?!

    I remember when the NFL was classy and employed people convicted of dog fighting (that’s your boy, Tony), violent crimes and dealing drugs.

    Please just stop with this nonsense.

  3. Bloomberg’s most over rated NFL players:
    1. Tom Brady
    2. Darrelle Revis (ringless)
    3. Julian Edelman
    4. Teddy Bustwater
    5. Lagerette Blunt

    Final prediction:
    Your NFC champion Seattle Seahawks: 23
    The New England Deflatriots: 10

  4. Look, I don’t like Brady or Darth Hoodie, but that is part of the game. With more and more complex schemes developing, it’s only going to happen more.

    I bet there were coaches who bemoaned the forward pass too. We all know how that sorted itself out.

  5. Three things happened last weekend:
    1) Somebody purposely tampered with those footballs.
    2) Whoever did it, did so on orders from someone higher up the food chain.
    3) It was done to gain an unfair competitive advantage.

    This isn’t that difficult Roger.
    You know it, I know it, old ladies and little kids know it.
    Interview 40 people Roger, really?
    This sounds like it would have needed to be about 5 or 6 people, tops.
    And now we also know that there isn’t even one real man on that whole team, not one guy man enough to just stand up and own it.

    Embrace your lasting, wretched legacy, cheaters.
    No honor, no integrity, no remorse.
    That’s the Patriot Way…

  6. So we could have a Super Bowl with flat balls ,fake injuries,players being shuffled in and out like a shell game so fast nobody knows whats going on etc.etc.etc !

  7. Wait a minute. So he’s saying that the Pats are again breaking the rules and the NFL isn’t doing anything about it. It’s almost as if I am surprised. Almost!!!

  8. Anything the Patriots do well, Dungy wants banned. You can thank him and Peyton Manning for the rules that screw defenses.

  9. Good lord. I think all we’re missing is the Pope commenting on the Pats at this point. Next a coach is going to complain that they can’t call the Pats offensive plays for them so they know what’s coming. When hate snowballs it really snowballs I guess.

  10. You can’t say its a ref’s problem if things are going too fast. Unless you expect them to stop the game every play. The rules probably need adjusted and will be adjusted. Good on Bill for pushing the limits again, but when your tactic is to deceive the refs too…… Is that what football is supposed to be now? Is that what it takes to be a genius head coach now, deceive the refs?

  11. I’m all for using the best scheme you can to get an edge like the no huddle, read option, bunch formations,stacks,pistol, full house,wildcat etc. but this just seems corny to me. line up your 11 against there 11 and play ball

  12. So they fake injuries because the officials are not doing their job identifying the play and stopping the ball from being snapped ?

  13. Chuck Knox used defensive fake injuries against Sam Wyche in the playoffs after the 1988 season. It ticked Sam Wyche off royally, but it slowed down their hurryup effectively.

  14. Frankly, I think it’s dumb that an ineligible player is required to leave the game if he wants to move over to an eligible position and vice-versa. It slows the game down and prevents NE from running a creative and effective offense. So long as these players are reporting a change of eligibility and ineligible players are reporting as well, then this shouldn’t pose a competitive problem.

  15. The Pats are even in Dungy’s head – they are in everyone’s head. There some serious sick stuff going on here. I’ve never seen anything like this in the No Fun League. This past week (and I am sure nest week too) will be a study in mob mentality psychology. Thesis material. Pass the popcorn.

  16. I ‘ve played when coaches have told players to fake injuries, I’ve coached and told players to fake injuries many many years ago. Coaches don’t have to tell players this anymore. Even a really smart high school player will fake an injury if he thinks it will help his team win by slowing down the other team or letting them get the right personnel on the field. Coaches don’t even have to tell them this anymore.

  17. Sounds like the Patriots are the team to beat. They always know the boundaries of the rules and live on em. Heck Seattle has to commit holding on every pass play and admit. Thats breaking the rules.

  18. astburyj says: Jan 23, 2015 9:33 PM

    These are all referee problems. Refs should know the rules better than Belichick.

    How’s that work? The Refs are part timers.

  19. It’s a very annoying tactic, but it works. Like when I used to play street fighter against my little brother….he just kept hitting B over and over again, low kicking the sh@t out of me until he won…

    I thought it was cheating but it wasn’t. It’s the classic “if you don’t like it then stop it” mentality. I think Mr. Dungy has found a way to counter the tactic for the Seahawks.

  20. Here we go again, another bitter guy that used to lose to the patriots. Face it NE fans nobody outside of NE likes or respects the patriots. They are a convicted felon and everyone of their competitors is going to scrutinize everything they do. And from the way it appears for good reason. The funnest thing is the trail of lies. Bill Belichick one of the smartest guys in football, supposedly, knows everything about every rule, yet he did not understand that he wasn’t suppose to video tape other teams signals, yeah right, SMH!

  21. This is why we have deflation gate. Harbaugh was totally upset over this and decided to get even. Belicheck pushed the rules one too many times. It was probably common knowledge about New England deflating game balls. Harbaugh gave the Colts a heads up and they notified the officials and the rest is history. The Patriots actually embarrassed the officials and the league with these substitutions. Sometimes, pay back is a medivac.

  22. Tony Dungy is the ultimate homer. He and the Colts were masters at backdoor trickery; milking the play clock to 1 second the entire game, rushing to the line before the defense was set (can’t anymore), calling twenty audibles a play, hiking the ball during defensive substitutions. Colts fans, players, and now I guess former coaches need to quit being butt hurt and accept the fact that their doors got blown off by New England AGAIN and quit crying

  23. gdbroker says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:33 PM
    So counter a legal play with an illegal one. Thanks Reverand Dungy.

    ================================================================

    It’s not legal, as Dungy pointed out. He’s not being as hypocritical as you think because the Patriots are illegally running this game plan.

    Yes, the concept of it is legal. No, the Patriots are not conforming to it in a legal formation. That in itself means that it is, in fact, illegal and should not be happening. If it’s continuing to happen, then do what you have too to equalize it. If the Patriots were reporting correctly and lining up correctly, then it would be different.

    But they’re not, so it’s not legal. Any other stupid remarks?

  24. canetic says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:31 PM
    If you aren’t in the game, don’t worry about it
    ******************************************
    Wrong answer, Dungy is highly respected as ex-coach and person that the fact that he would even admit that makes me believe what most already believe… NE cheats!

  25. NE has no class can’t win on a fair playing field Kraft has godell in his pocket always has ….TUCK RULE. SPYGATE oh yeah that was so bad they burned the evidence so it was more then you think .Why hide it from everyone if it WASN’T.Every game Ne has eon by seven points or less should have a asterisk next to it .all the ex football STARS and coach’s say the Patriots are CHEATERS on ESPN BOh yeah everybody is jealous make me PUKE

  26. To say that you would cheat makes you no better than those you condemn Tony Dungy. Shame on you.

  27. So as everyone comessage down on the Patriots for allegedly cheating, Dungy is encouraging the Seahwaks to… cheat in order to counter a perfectly legal maneuver.

    The league may need to make changes in the offseason, but for now it’s legal.

  28. If teams are too stupid to pay attention to who is lined up where, they deserve to be scored on. It isn’t cheating. It is being smarter than the other team.

  29. Maybe Belicheck should just give the patriot play book to the Seahawks?..would that help their D figure out the substitutions tony?…really?…get a grip.

  30. So… Dungy would coach his players to cheat? How about coaching his players how to react to the legal substitutions?

    Easy to get by as a coach with Peyton Manning on your team, not as easy to actually coach though, is it?

  31. “Deliberately confusing defenses”? Seriously? Dungy’s Colts teams FEASTED off of play-action. And I don’t remember the Pats whining back in 2008 when Miami throttled them 38-13 using the long-forgotten Wildcat.

    Deception is the name of the game.

  32. So he would encourage his players to cheat in order to counteract a legal formation? Nice, Tony.

    Belichick says something like that and he gets destroyed. Dungy says that and everyone agrees with him because doing that against the Patriots is okay.

    Ridiculous.

  33. I realize that NFL teams are so closely matched that every coach and team looks for little ways to blur the lines, to gain that little speck of an advantage. The Patriots are the masters of that, and don’t sweat the small stuff – Is it legal? If not, what are the chances of getting caught?

    At some point, it crosses from clever strategy to trickery, and eventually to plain cheating. Belichick and his minions have run that gamut, and though it has made them successful, it has made them perhaps the most hated professional sports franchise in the country, in any sport.

    Bottom line is, in my opinion, that the NFL has become a microcosm of the federal government – way too big, way too many rules (many of them silly), way too powerful, and way too slick. Teams are like candidates in that everyone is out for number one, and will do anything to win; if it’s illegal or unethical, but there is a good likelihood of not getting caught, then go for it. The Patriots are the worst offender, but I am afraid that perhaps they are just terrible crooks who get caught more than the rest of the teams.

    Either way, the NFL has to get this under control, and harsh penalties to Brady and Belichick are the only way to get there.

  34. I think Dungy is wrong about Vereen. Someone else said that same point as well and then took it back after the tape showed otherwise.

  35. tonebones says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:34 PM
    Knowing that Brady cheated, I wonder how the refs are going to enforce roughing the passer penalties. If I were the Seahawks I’d test the limits. The Patriots certainly have no problem testing or exceeding limits.

    ———————————————————-

    You might want to contact the NFL, as you clearly have more information than they do.

    ZERO evidence of tampering.

    #youhateuscuzyouaintus

  36. It’s a shame roger goodell is such good buddies with the pats owner. Nothing will every happen to the pats. seems like a conflict of interests to me

  37. I find it fascinating that Bill Belichick knows the rule book better than any coach in the NFL. He is so adept at using it to his advantage, the NFL has to look at it to stay one step ahead of him.

    On this deflated football controversy, here’s what I know. Coaches and teams have cheated forever. Vince Lombardi swore George Halas had airplanes flying over his practices to spy on him.
    How come everyone says the Pats accomplishments are tainted by Spygate and now Deflate-gate, yet no one ever talks about the Niners who cheated with the salary cap when they won their championships?
    And how come no one ever talks about the Coke Machine Lawrence Taylor running around the field like a “crazed dog” (his term) when he was under the influence of cocaine and other drugs during the Giants championship years?
    My point is, I think this is so over blown, it’s ridiculous. I’d be willing to bet that the great majority of players in the NFL are still using banned substances to give them an edge on the field. I will not think otherwise until they make them all provide a sample immediately following their games. It should be the standard procedure, but you’ll never see it.
    I actually heard someone say they think the NFL should suspend Brady over this deflated football issue. What???? Brady be suspended for the Super Bowl???? Give me a break!! NBC would scream if the NFL ever did that. He’s the poster boy for their marketing and there’s no way he won’t play.
    Get real, people. The Colts had no shot to beat the Patriots in that game, I don’t care if they were playing with a helium filled football. The thing of it is, it’s such an easy fix that it boggles my mind that no one is saying it. Simply have the NFL provide the footballs for game day, and have them fill them and check them. The teams should have no contact with the game balls what so ever until kickoff.
    This week will be even more horrible listening to all the crap about the Super Bowl. I am tuning it all out and will turn the game on about 1 minute before kickoff.
    Some things are guaranteed. Someone will do a horrible job on the National Anthem before the game, the cameras will spend lots of time zooming in on Hollywood nitwits who are there but wouldn’t know one end of a football from the other, there will be more stupid commercials than ever making the players stand around for an eternity during tv timeouts, and the half time show will suck.
    Let’s hope the game can overshadow all of that, but the vast majority of time, it doesn’t.

  38. So the NFL has problems with underinflated ball in New England.
    They have a big problem with an overinflated quarterback in Clevaland.
    They have a problem this weekend with a game that too few fans care about.
    And they will probably have a problem in a couple of weeks one team blows out another.
    They will probably have more problems when the best football player on the planet finishes second or even third in the MVP voting.
    I wonder if we will ever see real football again, and get rid of this reality tv version.

  39. Wannabe you would actually bring up Vick on dog fighting an overlook the many who have killed humans while DUI…..Vick was railroaded it’s still a fine for dog fighting you idiot…..your a special breed

  40. The Pats are in Dungy’s head – they are in everyone’s head. There some serious sick stuff going on here. I’ve never seen anything like this in the No Fun League. This past week (and I am sure next week) will be a study in mob mentality psychology. Thesis material. Pass that popcorn.

  41. I actually agree with Dungy. I don’t blame Bill for exploiting the rules, it’s a cut throat league and winning is all that matters, but the league has to adapt in the offseason.

    And in regards to Bill do people really think his “win at all costs” approach to coaching in the NFL is any different than any of the other coaching greats in the history of the NFL?

    Whether it’s Bill Walsh stealing signals or messing with the coaching communication systems, or Don Shula removing the field tarp during a severe rain storm the night before a playoff game these guys are all success driven maniacs who or only happy when they are winning. It’s what makes them so successful. It’s what separates them from the rest.

    Does Bill take it to another level? Maybe. Does his unpleasant personality do him any favors? Nope. But the people who are constantly talking about “winning the right way” when lashing out at Bill while at the same time referencing the other coaching greats of the league who they assume did it the right way are either naive or have short term memories.

  42. There will always be a better option to choose in looking for interpretations of the rulebook to creatively develop an edge that are more appropriate than faking an injury, which is something that should never be suggested/coached to another person at any level of competition.

  43. All he is saying is that the Offence gains an “unfair” advantage that will likely be regulated out of the game (like having 14 guys in the huddle was) at some point in the near future, but that would be too late as the SB would have been played already. Therefore, he would do what he felt he had to do to compete. I am sure he would take the discipline if it helped neutralize this deceptive tactic.

  44. Holy cow. The Patriots have really become the NFL’s boogey men. In everyone’s head. Science and mother nature are the real deflategate culprits. And with the alignment the refs stopped tje game for 7, 10 and 7 seconds after the ineligible receiver was announced vs the Ravens. How long do they want? a minute? It,
    ‘S not rocket science. Don’t cover the guy they say is ineligible and cover the tight end lined up at tackle or the guy with a number in the 70s that they say is eligible.

    The Pats didn’t bitch and moan when the Dolphins broke out the wildcat and beat them a few years agon

  45. Gotta love Dungy. First, he’s not whining about nonsense like how much air is in the football. Second, he puts this in perspective by comparing it to no-huddle offenses rather pretending it’s akin to spying for the Nazis in the Second World War.

    And he’s right–the Pats are trying to catch the defense unaware. The defense does need to counter the strategy–one way or another. It is up to the officials to spot the tricks, which they might be able to do if they were better trained, weren’t trying to determine if a catch is a catch is a catch, and were fit enough to keep up with the action. If the commissioner put league employees in charge of balls and hired full-time officials that train year-round to spot infractions, these mini-dramas could be avoided.

  46. Are we really bringing up the Tuck Rule still? The rule that was confirmed as consistent with the rule, a rule that was reaffirmed for 13 years?

    This is really getting rediculous when the Patriots are being slammed for “breaking unwritten rules”

    If it’s a rule, write it and follow it.

    Now, apparently there’s a rule about the PSI of a football.

    I’ve yet to hear that the NFL refs have EVER taken a gauge to a football to check them before a game. They feel them, like the QBs do – and unless they’re way off, they approve them.

    Shame on the NFL for not having a better system if that’s the case.

    But let’s leave the “breaking of unwritten rules” out of this witch hunt

  47. This is what I have been saying … don’t blame the Pats for cheating blame the refs for not doing their job or maybe they are doing their jobs making sure Kraft’s team wins.

  48. The officials control the game clock and the start of plays. They should be aware of this and slow things up if they (the refs) are not sure who is eligible or not. Dungy is right about the problem – it has to move at a pace for the refs to keep up.

    The thing about numbers and trickery when ineligible numbers are on players made eligible also makes me wonder if they should consider modifying the rule.

  49. patswin is struggling.

    For some reason, he thinks he is a part of the patriots franchise.

    “We” “Us” ?? Really.

    You need to check in with reality.

  50. This is coming from a guy who was the coach of Manning who lived on getting free 5yds for defenders running off the field. The colts did that in almost every game I watched. Easy 12 men on the field penalty. How was that fair? Was that in the spirit of the game?
    Yeah, I guess everyone is kicking the Patriots now so let me get my lick in before it gets out of fashion.

  51. Hahaha. This is just getting nuts. Go pats! Keeping the game of football exciting and people on the edge of their seat. Proud to be a Pats fan, no matter what.

  52. You trolls on here need a life. It’s a game, not life or death. You need to belittle fans of opossing teams to feel better about yourself? Get a life. I don’t care what other fans think or what analysts think. There are way too many double standards in football and sports in general. I root for the pats and will continue to do so with a clear conscience because it’s entertainment. I don’t care if they win or lose. Them winning does nothing for me. It doesn’t feed my kids or put them through college. And you trolls saying they cheat and their championships are tainted means squat. Boo boo, you hate the team I root for. Let me go sulk in the corner and be ashamed. I didn’t play the game I’m not on the roster. I didn’t cheat and I don’t care if they did either. This story shows how messed up our society is. 24×7 coverage of football PSI. Go read a book instead of trolling on blogs or on Twitter. This entire world feeds off negativity and the desire to break people down when they are down. And blogs and Twitter enables trolls like you to secretly show your true colors. I feel for the people who are around you on a daily basis. In regards to the media all this does is make them money. Gillette is pretty happy with their 4 million of free advertising during yesterday’s press conferences.

  53. Again, it’s just the Patriots doing something that the NFL league office is to slow to react to. I guarantee that the league will put the breaks on this next season, but in the meantime the Patriots will get away with it.

    It’s like the snowplow incident. It was never in specifically stated in the rule book because no one thought someone would be so unmoral about sportsmanship.

  54. Wait, wait, wait….. Tony D wants the league t,o change the rules in order to stop the patriots from dominating? Haven’t I heard this one before?

    Here’s an idea Tony, why don’t you advise yourself on how to be a better father? That is if you can save any advice for yourself after telling the entire world how to operate…

  55. The problem here isn’t what the Patriots are doing. It’s that the defenses are so complicated that the defenders can’t adjust to anything other than a pre-programmed set of possibilities. The same goes for the coaches. It took Tony Dungy two weeks to come up with a coherent complaint and he was wrong in at least part of it (Solder wasn’t covered up by Lafell.).

    It’s really not that complicated. If a guy is covered up on the line of scrimmage, he’s ineligible. If he’s not, you better cover him. Teams run unbalanced lines with ineligible receivers all the time in high school and it’s not that big a deal because the defenses are mostly playing simple two-deep zone.

  56. So much hate. Can’t wait for the Super Bowl win and the trolls heads will explode!

    Oh, and so far there are absolutely zero facts out there yet except that the nfl is investigating.

    Keep guessing everyone, just keep guessing, guessing, guessing

  57. Most overrated coach in NFL history. He leaves the Bucs and they win the Super Bowl the very next season. After a fluke victory in the AFC Championship game, in which his team benefited when his crackhead owner’s minions pumped artificial sound into that dumpster formerly known as the RIP Dome, he was fortunate that his team managed to defeat the mighty Rex Grossman and the Bears. The season after he leaves, the Colts again make it to the Super Bowl. Maybe the Browns should hire him for a year then fire his sanctimonious butt knowing that there is a strong probability that they’d make their first Super Bowl appearance the following season.

  58. Personal JUST PLAY THE GAME, … ENOUGH with the TRICK CRAP!!!! If you can only win by an unfair advantage, then you do NOT deserve to WIN! This stupid stuff is ruining the GAME I LOVE.

  59. rhemish says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:49 PM

    NE has no class can’t win on a fair playing field Kraft has godell in his pocket always has ….TUCK RULE. SPYGATE oh yeah that was so bad they burned the evidence so it was more then you think .Why hide it from everyone if it WASN’T.Every game Ne has eon by seven points or less should have a asterisk next to it .all the ex football STARS and coach’s say the Patriots are CHEATERS on ESPN BOh yeah everybody is jealous make me PUKE
    ______________________________

    Grow up and learn the facts. The tuck rule was in place long before Brady ever came into the league, and that same rule went against the Pats earlier in the same season as the playoff game against the Raiders. Sure, it was a lousy rule but it was a rule. The spygate tapes were destroyed on the advice of Art Rooney after they catalogued was the tapes contained. Later on they got Matt Walsh’s copies of the tapes which matched what was catalogued and they played them on a loop at a press conference.

    And most former coaches say spygate was no big deal, including Bill Cowher.

    What most people choose to ignore is that cheating is an engrained part of the NFL Culture. It’s just that previous commissioners did a far better job at keeping the league’s dirty little secrets. You can start by Googling the antics of George Allen.

  60. “The Pats are in Dungy’s head – they are in everyone’s head. There some serious sick stuff going on here. I’ve never seen anything like this in the No Fun League. This past week (and I am sure next week) will be a study in mob mentality psychology. Thesis material. Pass that popcorn.”

    ——————

    You are so right about the mob mentality. I’ve been thinking that all week. This is what the Paris mob was probably like in 1793. Just carnal screams for vengeance. Not much thought. Any old hint of guilt is good enough. Off with their heads! It’s hideous.

  61. If a player reports as ineligible and the next play he reports as eligble without a timeout, stoppage in play or he doesn’t sit out a play then it’s illegal right?

  62. these colts always want to change the rules – “Dont touch my WR”. “dont substitute”….

  63. Bengals coach Sam Wyche was the first NFL coach to use the hurry-up offense. Run a fast sub in, then straight to the line, and if the defense tried to sub, fast snab to Boomer E and a quick 5 yard penalty.
    1988 AFC Championship game. Buffalo Bills coach Marv Levy has his defense guys fake injury about 25 times to stop the Bengals hurry-up.
    I agree with Dungy. Just have your nickel back fall down and say “I’m hurt” until you figure out who’s in and who’s elligible.

  64. Once Vareen declared as ineligible, I don’t think he returned as eligible on that drive – he APPEARED to be eligible in a sense, which is why the ref told the defense not to cover him, but that was part of the trickery.

  65. @logicalvoicesaysravensrule

    Here’s a stupid remark for you:

    “I stand behind Ray Rice. He’s a heck of a guy.” – John Harbaugh

    I hope that you are looping videos of your homeboy knocking out a 100-pound woman while you write this stuff.

    Gotta love that Ravens hypocrisy!

  66. “Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.”

    It wouldn’t be the first time this strategy was employed. In their 1988 playoff game, the Seahawks attempted to deny the Bengals no-huddle attack by faking injuries to their defensive players. The two nose tackles (Joe Nash and Ken Clarke) took turns falling the ground with a “trick knee”.

    It was ingenious, but the Bengals won the game anyway.

  67. There’s a reason why Dungy is sitting in the booth not coaching while Bill Belichick is in the Super Bowl. The refs can’t limit the changes because they are legal, and the Patriots shouldn’t be limited just because they came up with a clever way to confuse the defense while playing within the rules. And for a former coach to tell players to fake injuries in order to counter these legal plays is just awful.

  68. “Personal JUST PLAY THE GAME, … ENOUGH with the TRICK CRAP!!!! If you can only win by an unfair advantage, then you do NOT deserve to WIN! This stupid stuff is ruining the GAME I LOVE.”

    ———-

    Trick plays were around before you were born. They’ll be around long after you die. They’re part of the game.

  69. Haha, what if we are all just suckers in the biggest sports scam of all time?

    TV ratings down for the playoffs, the week before the Super Bowl is usually a down week, so league created the ultimate media crap storm and now gets to sit back and enjoy the benefits of one of the most talked about Super Bowls in the history of the league.

    Far fetched? I hope so. But given what we know about the league can anyone say it’s absolutely impossible?

  70. Tony,everyone knows you hate the Patriots. Why not let “deflategate” get settled first? One issue at a time…and don’t tell me that your boy Peyton doesn’t like his footballs a certain way himself. He lobbied with Brady in 2006 for teams to have their own balls. Remember?

  71. I do think the Patriots may have pulled a fast one, with the Vereen vs. Ravens, but I thought that since Harbaugh got a penalty that was one of the things that “reset” Vereen into being eligible again just like a TO or sitting out a play would have done.

    Whether its bending, trying to get into a grey area, or flat out breaking the rules. The Patriots are still going to look silly for quite some time with what has gone on the last couple weeks.

    The silver lining for the Patriots should get a good look at Garropollo and if he is the future, while Brady is suspended the first half of the season next year.

  72. If a receiver can pretend to be an RB sometimes (end around, reverse), or QB pretend be a running back sometimes(read option, wildcat), or a wide receiver can pretend to be a QB (wide receiver pass)…..someone explain to me the big difference from a lineman pretending to a wide receiver? There is no difference. Its like any workplace where old men are mad about people doing things differently than they have always been done.

  73. The Pats knowing what they are going to do and who they will declare ineligable and telling the refs at the last moment does not give the D time to react. The rules needs to be addressed in the off-season. For the superbowl I hope the Seahawks have lodged a complaint about this tactic and have asked the refs that if the refs receive a last second notification of ineligability, that they stop the clock and tell the defense and allow the defense some time to adjust.

    If they did this then Bcheatter would stop doing it.
    They cannot penalize Bcheatter for thee is no rule until next year.

  74. “It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it,” Dungy said.
    _____________________

    This makes no sense. How can you be totally against something you will certainly do?

    Plus, he says he will cheat (instruct defense to fake an injury) to respond to a LEGAL formation????????

  75. logicalvoicesaysravensrule please read this!

    ================================================================

    It’s not legal, as Dungy pointed out [but it was as several announcers and the NFL pointed out]. He’s not being as hypocritical as you think because the Patriots are illegally running this game plan [except they weren’t… Harbaugh was wrong]

    Yes, the concept of it is legal [and the plays in question were too]. No, the Patriots are not conforming to it in a legal formation [huh?]. That in itself means that it is, in fact, illegal and should not be happening [because you say it does not make it true]. If it’s continuing to happen, then do what you have too to equalize it [hmm, learn the rule book and adapt]. If the Patriots were reporting correctly and lining up correctly, then it would be different [they were, did you watch the Vereen play?].

    But they’re not, so it’s not legal [except the NFL said it was]. Any other stupid remarks? [yeah, all of yours]

  76. Tony Dungy’s coaching philosophy: If you’re not sharp enough as a coach to devise a scheme to counteract this, lobby the league to change the rules in your favor

    there’s a reason you’re a talking head & no longer a coach Tony ..without Manning, you would’ve been a dismal failure

  77. For everybody jumping on Tony, he is saying he would reluctantly tell his players to fake injuries because the referees appear incompetent to stop cheating by the Patriots and he provided examples. (Vereen not leaving between plays when he goes from eligible to ineligible).

    He said he would rather do that than lose to a Belicheat scheme and then get an “oh yeah, we should have flagged them on that TD that beat you) apology from the league. If the refs could be counted on to do their jobs right he wouldn’t have to suggest this.

  78. For some reason, I never realized how bitter and insecure Pats fans are. Talk about getting you panties in a bunch!

  79. “It’s something I’m totally against doing but I would certainly tell my players to do it.”

    And there you have a snap-shot of the non-existent moral compass of Mr. T. Dungy, the guy everybody holds up to the light as the one honest and truthful talking head on modern NFL related telecasts.

    “I’m totally against it but I’d tell my players to do it.” “I’m totally against breeding and abusing pit-bulls but I’ll help rebuild the career of Michael Vick.” “I’m totally a christian but I’ll cheat if it means winning.” “I’m Mister Clean – as long as you only look at the surface.”

    How many more examples do we need to reach the conclusion that this guy is one of the creepiest, sleaziest most hypocritical, unctuous, slimy ex-NFL retreads on TV these days. I say “one of” because there are others, but in my opinion, this guy takes the cake.

  80. Tony Dungy is yet another former coach/player with an axe to grind. Former Jet Mark Brunelle crying on set? How about getting your finances in order Mark? It’s been proven your horrible with money. Jerome Bettis questioning the integrity of Brady for saying he doesn’t know what happened to footballs but happy to sit on set with an accused murderer in Ray Lewis. Dungy, who regularly got the brakes beaten off of him by Belichick angry over one rule being broken in deflated balls but then in the next breath suggesting players break another rule by faking injuries to counter what is deemed legal in 4 man formations? How is “selective” outrage ok? This has gotten out of hand.

  81. It’s going to be funny when the refs don’t miss those penalties and it blows up in the patriots face. And not only that, since news is out that the refs blew a bunch of calls in a close post season game, they’ll slow the play down to properly announce and officiate each play.

  82. ecppeaters says:
    Jan 23, 2015 10:13 PM
    Personal JUST PLAY THE GAME, … ENOUGH with the TRICK CRAP!!!! If you can only win by an unfair advantage, then you do NOT deserve to WIN! This stupid stuff is ruining the GAME I LOVE.
    _______________

    What? No more onside kicks? Fake punts? Play action passes? Double moves by WRs to get open? RBs starting running to the right but then tricking the defense by (GASP) cutting back to the left?

    No more putting 5 DL on the LOS but only rushing 4? No more showing a blitz look but backing off?? No more CB blitzes?

  83. How often did Manning come up to the line & snap the ball when the opponent wasn’t ready? How Dungy doesn’t view that the same way?
    It’s the opponents responsibility to be ready.

  84. All I can do is LOL at all the Patriots haters, every fan, coach and player that we smacked down at one point or another has something to say, jump on the bandwagon haters! YOU HATE US CUZ YOU AINT US! Lolololol

  85. Jetfan74, would you rather they line up their coaches on the sideline during punts and trip the opposing players like the Jets do? Every team stretches the rules, it’s too bad BB is better at it than most. Good luck with papa geno next year.

  86. The Pats have EXPOSED glaring issues that the the Competition Committee needs to address and fix.
    What this article is about and the ball issue.
    The fact that all teams Offenses play with balls they select surprised the hell out of me.
    MLB officials control game balls from start to finish and toss them if they get slightly scuffed.

  87. I don’t hate the Pats at all, and actually kinda like them. But I agree with Dungy. This is silly.

    Come on. What, your ball handlers can’t get open enough that you gotta ‘disguise’ who’s eligible-ineligible? Seriously.

    “Hey, I’m Gronk, and I’m NOT eligible on this play, but my buddy, #67 is.”

    This is what kids try to do to each other on the playground.

    Come on, Pats. You’re better than this.

  88. I don’t really care about what the patriots are doing personally though I understand the frustration but I actually have a lot of respect for Brady and Belichek and think the patriots are one of the best teams in NFL history with those 2 but I think Dungy has a point in what he said. Yes we all know football is all about innovation and throwing things at your opponent that they haven’t seen before and will be confused by but I personally don’t agree with what they did against Baltimore and don’t believe it should be allowed to continue. Defenses are supposed to know pre-snap who they need to cover and who not to by knowing who’s eligible and ineligible and if the patriots aren’t giving defenses time to get word from the official on who’s eligible before snapping the ball IMO that’s cheating. If they’re gonna let them do this crap and run plays before the defense (per the rules) hears from the official who’s eligible than they may as well let the defense start rushing the QB before the ball is snapped cause to me and I’m sure many more its no different. Defenses are supposed to be informed of change in eligibility bottom line.

  89. Cheaters. Belichick is a small man. He has to game the system at every turn. Small. Keep up the cheating and that’s your legacy, schmuck.

  90. Dungy……slow them down somehow someway, they’re too good!!! LOL….. Even tho what they’re doing is legal!!! Make a rule!!! LOL……sour grapes much?

  91. A few things really stood out to me here. He admits, and everyone knows by now, that the eligible ineligible receiver stuff is a completely legal move by the Pats. Yes it’s deception, so is play action.
    Now here’s what gets my goat, no go sit down Gronk it’s an expression im not talking about the G.O.A.T., so the refs missed two penalties while the Pats were using this legal formation. Because the refs missed two penalties, Coach Dungy wants the league to step in and stop its use. How many penalties do the refs miss on regular plays? So by Tonys logic, the NFL should just step in and stop all offense cause the refs miss penalties? I mean cmon Tony, this is not the Patriots fault. The Pats are using legal formations and sometimes they screw it up, no different than an offsides, but because the refs don’t catch it 100% of the time you want it banished? Refs are human, they are gonna miss plays, and get calls wrong it’s part of the game. The refs announce who is eligible and who is not, on average the defense has 10 seconds to figure it out, or call a timeout, that is the gamesmanship that makes football stand above the rest. The other part has been well covered here but I’ll say it again, you say it’s unfair that the Pats are using a legal formation, yet your advocating cheating to stop it. Holy hypocrite coach on so many levels it’s maddening. I just lost a lot of respect for you, not that you know me or care.

  92. Why is it in the nfl we only hear the word cheating only a few times a year but it’s always about the Patriots? I guess if the shoe fits

  93. Dungy is an idiot and Belicheat is morally bankrupt. Once we get beyond the obvious, it becomes clear that the NFL referees need to brush up on the rules and call the game as its played at the speed at which it is played.

    Once that happens, this problem is resolved.

  94. “Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.”

    I would like to see the NFL do away with players faking injuries as well…Which is a simple solution. If a player gets injured (real or fake) they can not return to the field until the next possession.

  95. The funniest part in this substitution game is the clown on TV with the telestrater. When it happens, that guy stops talking and starts trying to figure it out. Several plays later a replay is shown and he draws a bunch of squiggles and tries to explain what happened 5 minutes ago… and he was usually wrong.

  96. Noel Thomas- What a ridiculous way to compare scheming verse deception that will be addressed in the rule book this offseason. While technically not illegal to move parts in and out. Dungy is 100% correct about them needing to give time to the official to announce it and notify the defense.. Your comment is all but saying even a juke move is wrong.. What the hell are you in suiting? BB is a master and finding a grey area and attacking it and pushing it to its limits.. Hes proven this with Spygate, Deflate-gate, Using wayyy to much physicality against wrs in the SB which changed the rules the next year and this is EXACTLY on par with those issues..

    Was it technically against the rules? Not necessarily but it is not in the best interest of the game and lacks integrity.. Should people fake injuries? Hell NO thats whack but so is sending one person to identify all the eligible and ineligible players and not giving the ref time to announce it properly to the defense.

  97. Actually, I just went back and rewatched that series in the Ravens game… Vereen declared himself ineligible, then on the next play he was out and Brandon Bolden came in. Rewatch your film, Tony…

  98. Dungy hates that Brady is a better QB than his ol Colts one and done Manning. Any time the old girl gets a chance to sling mud at the Pats she drools at the thought that maybe somebody cares.

  99. I love it. The hate fever has gotten so high and so jumbled with fact and fiction that it’s turned to white noise now. Can’t wait to see the horror on all your faces when the cheatingest cheaters in all the cheating land are hoisting that Lombardi for the 4th time while all your loser teams are camped out at the scouting combine. Haha! #embracethehate

  100. What is the fascination with this guy? Overrated coach / Life coach who always has something to cry about with New England. Not to mention he is pretty much worthless as a broadcaster. “My precious!!!”

  101. Refs make a lot of money, maybe they should learn how to better do their job. Everything the Patriots are doing, though deceiving, are within the legal boundaries. Some may even say genius.

  102. “They’re reporting so fast and going so quickly the defense can’t respond.”

    Didnt Dungy tell Peyton to always hurry up on the offense and get the defense with 12+ men on the field penalties during defense substitutions all the time? And now Dungy is complaining about the Patriots offense being too quick…Does he not realize that both teams get timeouts. 3 timeouts per half…If their offense is moving too fast why doesnt the defense just call a timeout?

    Mind you I am not a Patriots fan nor Seahawks…My team had a complete meltdown against the Seahawks late in the 4th in the NFC game…

  103. You people keep saying that what they’re doing is legal. It’s not. That’s what Dungy’s explaining and which is going right over your heads. He’s saying they’re doing it in a way that makes it difficult for the referees to catch. Next year they’re going to have to employee more refs to look for yet another Patriot illegal tactic. That team is going to be responsible for the demise of the NFL.

  104. patswin says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:33 PM
    You are all jealous because we are better than you will ever be.
    =============
    I don’t understand why patsfan thinks everyone is out to get them because “everyone is so envious” . Last I checked: the steelers, Cowboys, niners, Giants, and Packers have all won more super bowl trophies than the Patriots. I don’t see them being accused of cheating for “having it so good” . Where there is smoke there is fire. Heck, the seahawks will be one super bowl victory behind u after next Sunday.

  105. nflgreedleague says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:44 PM
    Bill Belichick one of the smartest guys in football, supposedly, knows everything about every rule, yet he did not understand that he wasn’t suppose to video tape other teams signals, yeah right, SMH!
    ——————–
    Another internet genius who has no idea what “rule” was “broken” in Spygate

  106. Not sure what’s worse, using 100% completely legal formations or whining and moaning about those 100% completely legal formations being used by a team that owned you. Oh wait, I actually do know what’s worse….Really Tony? Really?

  107. You people act like Dungy is breaking on the rules on purpose with no merit. I can say it’s a tactic for the refs to figure out if the players are really faking.

    Just like Dungy said it was up to the refs to catch guys lining up wrong and not leaving the field when they are breaking the rules.

    Two wrongs don’t make a right! You can’t defend one while condemning the other…

  108. bricketh says:
    Jan 23, 2015 11:10 PM
    Actually, I just went back and rewatched that series in the Ravens game… Vereen declared himself ineligible, then on the next play he was out and Brandon Bolden came in. Rewatch your film, Tony…
    ————
    Thank you lord for providing someone in the comment section that does research

  109. hbudgess says: Jan 23, 2015 10:31 PM

    Vancouversportsbro……. You need to work on your own country’s pathetic football game they play !!!
    =========

    Geography isn’t a strong suit huh?

  110. I think it would be hilarious if both the Patriots and officials went on the ‘feel of the ball’ before the game started and no one used a gauge. And if that’s what happened, then the refs screwed up.

    By the way, do the officials trust the receiver’s placement of the ball after a catch? Of course not, nor should they trust on ball pressure or anything else.

  111. Let’s dumb down the game for those who can’t keep up. BB should offer NFL special ed for the slow folks.

  112. Let’s see here: Pats rough up WR’s legally, they are evil rules changed. Pats bring Oregon O to the NFL and league can’t keep up, they are evil, people cry and rules change. Pats use legal formations that confuse small minded coach/fans, they are evil people cry. Pats balls are deflated which no one could tell during game, or prove it was someone on the staff that did it. They are evil, the people cry. See a pattern?

  113. BB is a master at finding a grey area and exploiting it as well as pushing the limits on the rules. Its sort of what makes him the genius that he is, hes a master at game planning and scheming. But that being said, this is ABSOLUTELY not in the best interest of the game. I dont care who your team is where your allegiances lye it simply is not fair to try and purposely deceive both the ref and the defense.

    If your eligible you need to say so after EVERY SINGLE PLAY and if your are not eligible you MUST DO SO EVERY SINGLE PLAY. You cant send one person over to the ref just before you rush to the line of scrimmage and announce who is and who isn’t eligible and if you do their needs to be a stoppage in time to announce it properly so the defense can account for it. This is exactly why TEAMS CANNOT have more than 11 people in the huddle. At one point it wasn’t illegal but it was unfair to the defense bc NO MATTER who you are you need to know who is eligible and who isn’t, this isn’t a matter of legality its a matter of sportsmanship and purposely deceptive.

    This is classic BB, If he were my coach Id love it, hes a genius with this stuff and even though hes not my coach I still respect the hell out of him bc hes an ultimate competitor always looking for an edge. We want to see a competitive great execution sb with little impact from the refs. This is opening pandoras box with all these rule bending and breaking type things. I want to see them fight it out, but not with a hidden blade if you understand the reference.

  114. There is nothing I like more than listening to Tony Dungy complain about the pats. Hey Tony, what about that offense you had where the refs were the rub on the slot? Remember that? That receivers that would use the ref to pick off the slot cb? If the Pats did that you’d be saying that should be banned too. Integrity my arse.

  115. Did you read the article? He clearly stated WHY IT WAS NOT LEGAL! On some of the plays in question the players were aligned (Illegally) even based on their own acknowledgment and announcement of who is and who is not eligible. Also I wasn’t aware Dungy was coaching this year in the NFL, must have slipped by me like your reading comprehension skills did yours.

    Just Stop dude, not everything is so damn personal their is no reason to purposely deceive your opponent by bending rules.

  116. What happened to just lining up and playing football like men? No, I’m not saying all teams should go back to running the wishbone and just smashing into each other for 3 yards and a cloud of dust…but I’m just saying. Be a man and line up and play football without little parlor tricks.

  117. Dungy has never liked Belichick, so his comments don’t shock me. Pay close attention – Dungy always wants to discredit Belichick. Similar to Aikman, Dungy’s motives are obvious – he cannot accept that someone is MUCH better than him.

  118. Why doesn’t the biggest, baddest, strongest, fastest, DL line up against the chump WR and run over him like OL and lay on him for over minute kicking, stomping, punching, suffocating them until they go on to season ending IR? Then on to the next WR. Then on to the next one. If they want to be in the trenches then they take the beating…

  119. Back in 2007 several visiting teams complained that the Colts had been piping artificial crowd noise through speakers at the RCA Dome to disrupt the the opposing team’s offense. Guess who the coach was at the time?…….is that cheating Tony?

  120. Well, this is odd. Making something out of nothing. The balls are blown up. Brady picks through the balls and chooses the ones he likes. That’s it. He didn’t pay anybody to scuff them, oil them, or put them in a dryer. So he chooses the balls he likes, and they get soaked and they lose some air. I have never seen a leather ball left outside in the rain and cold stay inflated. This is just stupid.

    I think any former QB that says Brady knew the balls were tampered with must know this because they tampered with the balls themselves when they played.

    I wish my team (Steelers) could do as well the Patriots and Bill Belichick. All this whining about deflated balls.

    Let them play the game, morons. Stop ruining the game for the fans.

  121. So now 3 time undefeated superbowl champ and HOF QB Troy Aikman is only saying bad things about Tawmy Brady because he is jealous of her too?

    Come on Pats fans, now you are just being silly.

  122. This latest scandal by the lyin’ cheatin’ New England Deflatriots proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Philadelphia Eagles were the Super Bowl XXXIX Champions by default.

  123. I’m confused.

    Was the Rams punt return TD against the Seahawks this season in which they faked who was actually catching the ball a brilliant play? Or was it cheating in the form of a deceptive attempt to game the system?

    I thought the former, but based on the idiotic comments in this thread most people seem to think any legal, creative attempt to deceive the opposition is “cheating”.

  124. And faking an injury is CHEATING.

    So what the Patriots are doing on offense is deceiving?? You mean, exactly what defenses try to do every week on every team to disguise coverages etc.?? It’s the same thing. Except nobody else thought of it.

  125. Coaching for Dummies by Tony Dungy, Foreword by Jim Caldwell, now at a bookstore near you. Sounds like those ‘roids that he and his late 70’s Steelers teammates abused regularly are starting to take there toll. Courson, Bleier, Long, Webster… And this clown attempts to speak of integrity ?

  126. bullcharger says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:34 PM
    It’s not against the rules.

    310 163

    ——-

    163 thumbs down for the truth. What’s wrong with you people. If the league wants to change the rule it will be next year. For now it’s fully legal, so suck it up.

  127. “vicnocal says:
    Jan 23, 2015 11:29 PM
    What happened to just lining up and playing football like men? No, I’m not saying all teams should go back to running the wishbone and just smashing into each other for 3 yards and a cloud of dust…but I’m just saying. Be a man and line up and play football without little parlor tricks.”

    LOL “parlor tricks”, should also we ban fake punts and and fake field goals? How about ban the drop kick? And the onside kick? And the wildcat? And the read option? And flea flicker? And fake fumble? And the fake spike that Dan Marino and Matt Stafford both did? And while were at it maybe we should make it illegal for receivers to fake running a post but then actually running a corner?

    Idiot.

  128. vicnocal says: Jan 23, 2015 11:29 PM

    What happened to just lining up and playing football like men? No, I’m not saying all teams should go back to running the wishbone and just smashing into each other for 3 yards and a cloud of dust…but I’m just saying. Be a man and line up and play football without little parlor tricks.
    ===================================
    Please explain where we draw the line on what is or isn’t a “parlor trick”? Hurry up offense? Halfback option pass? End around? Status of liberty play? Out and up? Fake fair catch and let the ball bounce? Fake who is catching the punt?

  129. It’s all about confusing defenses anymore. Look at the Seahawks; they use the zone read option often. Very little a defense can do to defend against it because you don’t know if the QB has it, the RB has it, or the QB is going to throw. One defender has to cover the QB, RB, and a WR all at once.

  130. This is not that hard to figure out…the last player on the end of the line and anyone off the line of scrimmage is eligible regardless of numbers. I’ve seen this run in little league games

    What does dingy think of play action passes, half back pass, wildcat, fake kicks, zone blitz, fake blitzes?

    Remember end of line and players off the line…don’t look at numbers

  131. Integrity. Yyyeah.
    If they are breaking the rules, the refs need to recognize that and enforce the rules. If they are not breaking the rules, nonissue.
    As far as Dungy advocating breaking the rules if you can’t keep up with the opposition. Really nice.

  132. Oh my God, I heard that one of the Patriots lineman had the audacity to complete a block on a passing play, allowing Brady to avoid a sack and *GASP* …. COMPLETE A PASS!!!!!!

    Get Gooddell on the phone, this kind of blatant trickery is CHEATING, and Belichick should be FIRED!!!!

  133. finsguy says:
    Jan 23, 2015 11:39 PM
    So now 3 time undefeated superbowl champ and HOF QB Troy Aikman is only saying bad things about Tawmy Brady because he is jealous of her too?

    Come on Pats fans, now you are just being silly.

    ———-

    Aikman is making an assumption that is wrong. He’s assuming there was tampering after the balls were inspected by the Patriots ball boy. That’s not a fact, that’s nothing. Throw that out and he has no point at all. For every Aikman there’s a Marino and a Theisman backing Brady… It’s pretty undecided out there.

    Also, if you think Aikman wants Brady to get a 4th, you are wrong.

    I’d think you would support Marino fins guy.

  134. Disguising coverages is not the same as playing deceptive player substitution and eligibile/ineligible games–don’t be absurd. What the Pats are doing is nothing short of underhanded trickery. Only new england homers would think that having players come in on one play as eligible and the next as ineligible, and do that repeatedly–while at the same time snapping the ball quickly–was OK. It’s not fair play–it Patriots BS–and everybody knows it. What a pathetic lot Pats fans are–lamely trying to defend this sort of nonsense. Spying, underhanded deception with ineligible receivers, deflated footballs. Belichick is a disgrace to the league. He’s not brilliant, just a cheat.

  135. “Dungy said that, if he were coaching the Seahawks, he’d reluctantly tell the players to fake defensive injuries in the Super Bowl to counter New England’s tactic.”

    So, to summarize, Dungy supports doing something completely illegal to thwart a completely legal tactic.

    Got it.

  136. Than change the rule….If it is legal then shut up about it. They are trying to deceive!?! Well every play including fake blitzes and changing up the snap count is meant to deceive. That is the point..

  137. I totally agree that this bending-the-rules game is going to play AWFUL in conjunction with inflate-gate and if the Patriots do this, it is going to reflect really badly on them and the league.

    While Dungy isn’t outlining the issue very elegantly, I think there is no doubt that the NFL needs to address this pre-game and perhaps ending this game is a good punishment for deflate-gate.

  138. It seems like 75% of the posters here didn’t even read the article or did not comprehend what Dungy said. Mostly the Die-hard Pats fans.

    I cannot confirm the validiatiy to his argument on these plays, as I don’t recall them specifically, and have not seen the replays. BUT, IF what he said is true, they broke the rules. Plain and simple. You can’t have an ineligible reciever one play (RB), and then he be eligible the next. The fact that they hurry it up, fool the refs, defense, is not a clever move, it’s breaking the rules. And does nothing more than cast further doubt on the Pats legacy.

    Dungy said, IF he was faced with this situation, in the SUPER BOWL, he’d encourage it. Basically to even the playing field. And reluctantly so. Not that I think that is appropriate, and I’m suprised to even hear him say that. But if one team is allowed to cheat, that’s going to encourage other teams to cheat/bend the rules. And that’s why the league needs to put and end to this now, with a swift and heavy hammer. Pats fans would be very unhappy if the tables were turned, and had lost by a team found cheating.

  139. “Disguising coverages is not the same as playing deceptive player substitution and eligibile/ineligible games–don’t be absurd. What the Pats are doing is nothing short of underhanded trickery. Only new england homers would think that having players come in on one play as eligible and the next as ineligible, and do that repeatedly–while at the same time snapping the ball quickly–was OK. It’s not fair play–it Patriots BS–and everybody knows it. What a pathetic lot Pats fans are–lamely trying to defend this sort of nonsense. Spying, underhanded deception with ineligible receivers, deflated footballs. Belichick is a disgrace to the league. He’s not brilliant, just a cheat.”

    _________________________________

    Is it legal?? If it is then nothing can be said. Hell I am not a Patriots fan and think it is brilliant. It is like loopholes in laws…..One must take advantage of it if they can….Do not like? Then close the loop hole…

  140. And while we are cracking down on skirting-the-rules coaching, why not a 15 yard penalty for unsportsmanship behavior or delay-of-game the next time a coach calls a timeout 1 second before a game winning FG?

  141. RIVALRY STATISTICS

    Patriots wins Colts wins
    Regular season 46 28
    Postseason 4 1
    Total 50 29

    Belichick 5 Super Bowl rings (2 with the Giants)

    Dungy 2 Super Bowl rings (1 as a player)

    Mystery solved!!

    Keep in mind they played in the same division for part of the time. Gee I wonder if the Ravens like the Steelers, Or the Bears like the Packers. Or the Giants like the Eagles. Or if the Raiders like anybody west of the Rockies.

  142. Sorry Tony, but LaFell was off the line of scrimmage on Solder’s TD catch, making both LaFell and Solder eligible receivers. That formation was 100% legal.

  143. richardernsberger – I agree with your assessment of the situation but I disagree about BB because coaches exactly like him are innovators who have single handedly changed the NFL. Do I like his bending rules? NO, do I condone it? Hell NO.. But you have to respect a mans competitive spirit with regard to doing anything short of blatantly cheating to win. While I understand this is just short of cheating, it is still ingenious to push the envelope and its because of minds like that , that have helped evolve the NFL.

    – Seahawks fan, who doesn’t like this substitution crap even more than this flat footballs stuff.

  144. What next? Ban faking a hand off and tossing a pass because it’s deceptive and the defense might be confused?

    Maybe give the defense headsets so they can listen to the opposing OC call the offensive plays?

    I’ve got no issue with deceptive play calling as long as it’s within the current rules, but this constant whining and demanding rule changes rather than learning to adapt is making me sick!

  145. So the Colts (okay, former Colt) b!#ch and moan AGAIN, like they always do when the Patriots take them to the woodshed. This is not news. Remember when the Colts had the rules changed so you’re not allowed to defend receivers anymore? So now nobody has any idea what really constitutes illegal contact or pass interference anymore? Yeah, thank Dungy and the Colts for that.

  146. A lot of what defenses do is based on personnel groupings. This strategy forces them to play defense rather than scheme defense. As long as the requirements are met it is not cheating any more than putting a guy in motion, flea-flicker, play-action, etc. It is problematic when combined with a hurry-up offense but substitutions are allowed to happen before the snap.

  147. Dungy is flat out wrong about one of the plays, Vereen didn’t have to sit out a snap because a penalty was called on Harbaugh. Florio must not have liked the fact that I pointed that out because he didn’t post my first comment.

  148. I’ve lost all respect for Dungy now. All the officials have to do is have the umpire stand over the ball until he feels everyone is ready. This is pure sour grapes maybe because Belichick has three rings and Dungy has one which he wouldn’t have if the Bears had a decent qb. This whining without proof is getting tiresome. What’s next Tony? Have Brady throw left handed?

  149. richardernsberger says:
    Jan 23, 2015 11:58 PM
    Disguising coverages is not the same as playing deceptive player substitution and eligibile/ineligible games–don’t be absurd. What the Pats are doing is nothing short of underhanded trickery. Only new england homers would think that having players come in on one play as eligible and the next as ineligible, and do that repeatedly–while at the same time snapping the ball quickly–was OK. It’s not fair play–it Patriots BS–and everybody knows it. What a pathetic lot Pats fans are–lamely trying to defend this sort of nonsense. Spying, underhanded deception with ineligible receivers, deflated footballs. Belichick is a disgrace to the league. He’s not brilliant, just a cheat.
    ———————————————————–
    I’m a Giants fan that used to love Belichick and wanted him to succeed when got there, but I disowned him at Spygate so I’m amazed and appalled about how one coach one quarterback franchise like this can have a fan base supporting this garbage when cheat week in week out for 15 years. They’re so far behind the big boys of the NFL and think they’re important. This will all have Mr. Kraft forced out of the league if he can’t fix his own house. Pat’s fans don’t care about that either.

  150. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t making a guy ineligible just make him another lineman off the line? I’d just tell my team if the man you are responsible for reports ineligible you are now a blitzer and to go deflate Brady’s fat head.

  151. It’s a perfectly acceptable practice and within the rules. If the refs can’t keep up, then they need to call an official time out and sort things out.

  152. One of my favorite things in the world is when defensive Pats fans say “Manning/Dungy/The Colts are just so sick of losing to us” or “Seahawks/Ravens/Giants/Packers/Saints/Steelers fans are just jealous that we win all the time,” seemingly oblivious to the fact that all of those teams/people have won at least one Super Bowl since they have.

  153. Dungy was a terrific coach. As such, he makes a great observation about the substitution rules. But they apply to all teams equally, not just the Pats. They have mastered what he couldn’t. So suggest a rule change, but not because Belichick figured out how to use the system, but because the system doesn’t work. Stop placing blame on a team because they outsmarted you.

  154. Newsflash: The LOB isn’t just good because they are athletic, they understand what Brady/Hoodie will be trying to do as well as Brady/Hoodie, and it will only get worse as the game goes on. This isn’t their first rodeo…good luck trying to confuse them.

  155. If the Ravens had try to trick the Patriots..the Refs would step in and prevent the ball from being hiked. I have seen it several times.

    Bellichek isn’t exploiting rules, he is exploiting favorable treatment by the Refs to the Patriots.

    If Bellichek was really a genius he would have been yelling tuck rule when Brady fumbled.

    What about when the ball was handled by the Refs during the game with Ravens and Colts…Do you think the Refs can’t tell a deflated ball?

    Different Rules,
    T-Sizzle.

  156. I wonder what Tony and the other Patriots haters would say if Belichick had done what Steelers head coach Mike Tomlin did to Ravens receiver Jacoby Jones as he took a kickoff back and had to alter his path because Tomlin had got in his way? Would all you whiners say the $100,000 fine that was imposed would be enough? Btw, Tomlin was not even suspended nor did the Steelers lose a draft pick.

    Or how about when the Jets assistant coach tripped the Dolphins player along the sideline…………

    Had the Patriots done those things then you haters would all freak out and call for lifetime bans and lost draft picks. Hypocrites.

  157. NFC West D is what the Pats have not played and the Hawks are the best in that division. These D’s are fast, tackle and lay the wood. The key here is that Brady is just like Manning, not mobile. In addition he doesn’t throw down field. I don’t care what way he cheats at the line because the Hawks simply line up and will rotate over based on match ups. Brady is in for a long day against this D.

  158. “[Nate] Solder reported as eligible correctly but [receiver Brandon] LaFell lined up on the line of scrimmage as if Solder was a tackle,” Dungy said. “There should have been a penalty for illegal formation. But it happened too fast for the officials.”
    ====

    Uh… No Tony. LaFell was off the line of scrimmage. There was literally a replay showing him being on the line of scrimmage vs off the line of scrimmage.

    What the officials did miss on that play was that Fleming had been eligible on the second down play and was ineligible on the third down play. Should have been a flag for illegal sub.

  159. “Teams run unbalanced lines with ineligible receivers all the time in high school and it’s not that big a deal because the defenses are mostly playing simple two-deep zone.”

    ========================

    Exactly. High School, Division II & III…it’s very common. If average kids can figure this out, why is it so hard for the dudes getting paid?

  160. I’m all for using the best scheme you can to get an edge like the no huddle, read option, bunch formations,stacks,pistol, full house,wildcat etc. but this just seems corny to me. line up your 11 against there 11 and play ball
    ===

    That’s what he did, only BB’s 11 contained varying numbers of offensive linemen. It’s not his fault he’s playing against stupid defenses.

  161. Disguising coverages is not the same as playing deceptive player substitution and eligibile/ineligible games–don’t be absurd.
    ====
    It absolutely is. It’s the offensive mirror image of a zone block Someone staying home to block that should be running a route

    It’s not BB’s fault that his opponents are dumb.

  162. Unlike most people, I find their bending of the rules admirable.

    Go pats! (And I’m a Cowboys fan :P)

    __________________________________

    If you are not pushing the boundaries of the rules. Be its Checkers, Business or Football then you are just a sheep in the herd. Either lead or get trampled. Go Pats!(Vikings Fan here)

  163. Man, I hope the Seattle D will punish the Pats and knock them out, and make this all moot. Get cute with us, ok, we’ll just knock you out.

  164. He clearly stated WHY IT WAS NOT LEGAL! On some of the plays in question the players were aligned (Illegally) even based on their own acknowledgment and announcement of who is and who is not eligible.
    ===

    Yeah… But he was 0-2 on his explanations. The only time Vereen stayed in after having been ineligible was the second time, and that was after Harbaugh’s penalty, which absolves Vereen from having to wait out a play. On the to prior runs of that formation Vereen and Hooman had come out after being ineligible.

    With the LaFell-Solder-Fleming play, it should have been a penalty, but not for the reason Dungy states. LaFell was lined up fine – off the line – but Fleming had been eligible the play before. He should have stayed out a play, or it should have been IS on Fleming.

    But Dungh… sheesh. A week and a half with noting to do but look at tape, and that’s what he comes out with? I wonder how long it took for Manning to just start tuning the guy out.

  165. All this tells me is that the NFL needs to provid smart, athletic refs to keep up with the smart, athletic players and coaches. This is no longer a job for old men.

  166. As our beloved Willie McGinest once faked an injury to slow down?? ( I can not remember off the top of my head the team they were playing against?)I watched it on the NFL Network and all his broadcasting buddies were making kindly jabs at him. He said, and I quote. “Hey, Bill always preached to us.” “situational football!” Oh I’m quite sure all you little Patriot fans recall the game and the team the “PatriotCheats” where playing. It was pretty funny, I have to admit lol. Like 2 or 3 Patriot players where faking and injury at the same time lol! They showed the clip on the Network because he had commented on when a bunch of Giant Defensemen did the same thing last year! lol That’s what started the conversation. So you see, Mr. Belichick does cheat on both sides of the line of scrimmage. Oh I mean has his players, “play situational football!”

  167. Ha! Cardinal Dungy speaking evil? Wow. I’m not a Pats fan but I do enjoy the way they dumfound people. Releasing or trading star players, blatantly taping practices, Tuck Rule, scoring 28 unanswered points AFTER deflated footballs were swapped, odd formations, legal substitutions that make officials and coaches look dumb. I bet BB starts Garafolo instead of Brady and tells him to throw a INT to Sherman.

  168. With two weeks and a few of the past games to watch on tape, the Seahawks and Ref Crew should be able to see what is being done legally, within the rules by the Patriots and adjust as needed. If they can’t, then get ready for some weird plays that expose them. I don’t see doing something illegal, as he suggested, to counter the legal play. If the rules need to be adjusted, then so be it…..but that is for another time. For now, just study, get ready and make sure that the League/Ref crew knows what the rules are and that they are able to enforce them. Best advice is to make sure your team is ready for that play.

    Go Hawks!

  169. I think BB is going to come in this game and play the normal game…meanwhile…the Hawks will keep looking for those sneaky plays…confuse the crap out of them LMAO

  170. Tony Dungy is such a washed-up old-timer. He sounds like such a moron in this article. I can say I am just glad I read this instead of having to listen to his Gomer Pile sounding voice.

  171. This guy was a loud mouth last time around. He’s just another guy who got his butt handed to him one too many times for his ego to take, and every chance he gets, he comes crawling out of the woodwork to whine about it, as if it were going to change posterity. Sorry Tony. Not happening. You got your butt whipped, just like the other whiners. Your jumping on the bandwagon whenever it gets fired up males you look sad.

    He just hates to see New England succeed, and is hoping he is some how helping Seattle with his commentary. Can’t wait to watch Seattle alternating “injured” players as New England runs the odd formation plays over and over again. The Boos from the crowd as players flop to the ground will be priceless. We’ll all have you to thank Tony!

    Hey Tony, by the way, where did you get this idea? Oh yeah, the Giants have been doing this for years, and they didn’t even need an odd formation to do it. But that’s OK huh Tony? After all, the Giants didn’t beat your asterisk like a drum for a decade now did they. Gee Tony, you wouldn’t be harvesting your sour grapes again would you?

    I wonder what you would have said if that was the reaction defenses had to your offenses and all the gyrations you had them go through in an attempt to generate penalties and deception.

    You sir, are no saint. But you think you are. Arrogant and bitter is no way to go through life Tony.

  172. The whole point of running offensive plays is to confuse the defense. You don’t WANT the defense to know what play you are running. I think Dungy is slowly losing his mind. The Pats have been in his head for over a decade now.

  173. All I take out of this is that a guy has to be ineligble or eligible, and can’t be both on the same drive without going out for a play. Vereen wasn’t on one drive and didn’t get called, so the Pats got away with it.

    As long as the refs are paying attention (and now more aware of the tricks Belichek is up to), they’ll be more aware.

    Though I don’t put it past Belichek to be dusting off the playbook looking for something obscure, as well as stretching the very limit of the rule book as far as reasonability and “spirit of the rule” guidelines.

  174. Rex Ryan got a head coaching job in Buffalo on the strength of his ability to disguise defenses and play Brady and New England tough. Why is that different then Bill implementing offensive formations that make the defense think and react to something different? The simple response is a zone defense but opposing coaches know Brady will pick those apart. Are the Patriots only suppose to run offenses that make it easy for the defense?

  175. Patriot Sycophants- a person who acts obsequiously toward someone important in order to gain advantage. Synonyms- yes man, boot-licker, brown noser, toady, lickspittle, flunky, lackey, spaniel,doormat, stooge,cringer, suckup. You know who you are.

  176. i believe vereen was lined up n the slot reciever position and is ineligible…why do they let a reciever n the slot be ineligible…makes no sense whatsover

  177. It is now VERY obvious that the Patriots did nothing to the footballs, as they were 100% in the hands of the NFL.

    You’re going to see the COLTS get investigated, and also…the officials.

    Anyone jealous of NE’s changing formations and eligible/ineligible….needs to get a smarter coach

  178. It’s a deceitful move, no doubt about it, but to advise faking injuries is crazy.

    It’s just extra slime from the Pats, nothing more.

  179. “As our beloved Willie McGinest once faked an injury to slow down?? ( I can not remember off the top of my head the team they were playing against?)”

    The opponent was none other than Dungy’s Colts (who ended up not scoring on that drive and losing the game)! Not only do I recall that game but Bostonian writer and Around the Horn panelist Jackie MacMullan references it frequently when discussing the brilliance of her beloved Patriots.

  180. How about another catchy nickname, like Substitution-Gate? Man, people are so pathetic piling on the Patriots because they’re so jealous of their success. I guess Tony Dungy is so tired of the Patriots owning him over the years. Why aren’t more people in the media writing theories that perhaps the Patriots aren’t responsible for this mess, that perhaps the ball deflated naturally or there was sabotage from the Baltimore Ravens? Because I guess that would destroy the narrative that the Patriots are cheaters. Just when I think people can’t sink any lower, they do.

  181. I just love all the “refs should be the only ones to touch the footballs prior to kickoff” nuts out there. Ever handle a brand spanking new football? Slick footballs would set back the league 60 years. Passing % would drop through the floor.

    Simple solution: Have the officials do an on-field inflation check. That would account for atmospheric effects on pressurization. Do this when the players are in their respective locker rooms for the pregame speech. Repeat the process at halftime. Have one team representative on hand to make adjustments (within the rules, of course) to his QBs liking.

    Done.

    Oh. And get rid of the stupid “K-ball”.

  182. The question of Vereen’s eligibility was already addressed – he came out of the game after the first time he was ineligible. The second time, he did not have to leave the game because of the Harbaugh penalty.

    On the Solder play, look at the video; LaFell is nowhere near the line of scrimmage. He is not covering Solder!

    Obviously, Tony has other points on when players should declare themselves eligible/ineligible, which are valid; but his cry that the plays had illegal formations/substitutions are not

  183. NFL before and after the game check the Pats balls and their formations and also check the Seahawks for PEDS too and watch their illegal contact mugging receivers past 5 yards .

  184. This was a gr8 video
    I Love being a New England Patriots FAN more than ever
    We’ve got To win this game more than ever now though!
    Shut everybody up.
    It took the two teams we beat n this years playoffs to try and snitch us out and the only thing they could come up with to bring us down was 2psi. Literally 2 pounds of air. What a joke. Gotcha back Pat fans even all the way down here n FLorida

  185. So once again the officials missed a critical penalty in a playoff game that had huge implications . On the td drive vereen was supposed to come out for a play and he didn’t. That penalty could have been HUGE. Anything could have happened if they were pushed back and forced to slow that drive down. Harbaugh had the right to be a little upset . Remember the outcome was only 4 points. And not to mention this – but now we don’t know how long the pats have been deflating there balls and whatever other rules they may be breaking. Pats fans can spin this all they want, but in a playoff game you can’t say these things aren’t important. Along with all the other calls that were missed in the NFC games.

  186. Why isn’t the headline “Tony Dungy would cheat to try and beat the Patriots”, lol.

  187. Dungy manned up, apologized and admitted he was wrong. As a Pats fan I respect that. If only morons like Brunnell and Aikman had the same amount of class. Call a man a liar you better have solid proof.

    All they did was offer opinion. Basically they’re nothing more than gossip columnists.

  188. josh8134 says:
    Jan 24, 2015 5:51 AM
    i believe vereen was lined up n the slot reciever position and is ineligible…why do they let a reciever n the slot be ineligible…makes no sense whatsover
    ——————
    Vereen reported ineligible and was positioned where you would expect a slot receiver but he was on the line of scrimmage not off which makes the formation legal

  189. Belechick has turned this into a high stakes cheating match where honest coach’s now have to think of ways to off-set his cheating.

  190. All non Patriots know they “sail close to the wind” and it’s called cheating I would think.
    I hate Seattle but I hope they win the Super Bowl
    then the NFL can send down their punishments.
    Too bad they can’t ban Brady and Bill from the
    game. They came over as a pair of liars in their
    performance on Thursday.

  191. The Pats have broken no rules with the substitutions. It’s up to the REFEREES to allow the defense time to make the proper subs. It doesn’t matter if the Pats are in no huddle. The refs can prevent them from snapping the ball, which is what Harbaugh said. He had no problem with the subs. His problem was with the refs not letting Balt sub themselves.

    Also, on Dungy’s Vereen example, I believe there was a timeout after that play. So, Vereen does not have to report as eligible on the next play.

  192. Is it me or has the entire world turned against the Patriots?
    Next thing we’ll hear is that the team’s name is overly nationalistic and promote war mongering.

  193. ny”healer”:

    More of the same which means the Boston media will pull together even closer and protect the boys. Dirty water town
    —————————
    Guess the ny folk find it easy to talk about, but no radio reception to *listen* to the Boston media, where there is no consensus on this.

    Again, as applies to many, get your facts straight before you make stupid statements.

  194. Why do all patriots fans think that anybody that says anything negative about their team or has an opposing opinion just HAS to be jealous? These guys have millions of dollars and most of them have won superbowls themselves. I highly doubt they take any of this personal, esp. Guys that are no longer in the league and even in the hall of fame! Don’t y’all think when so many diffrent people are speaking out negatively about this organization then something must be wrong? I mean seriously- john madden, Tony dungy, don Shula , Troy aikman, Jerry rice, mark brunell , Jerome bettis, I mean I could go on and on, and what about the ppl outside of football? I guess every single one of them has an axe to grind.

  195. Dungy should go back and watch the play at NFL.com. Lafell lines up a full yard off the line of scrimmage. How far back, in Dungy’s view, does he need to go? Two yards? Three?

  196. This coming from the coach who used to pump in artificial crowd noise over the PA system in the RCA Dome. Do they need an asterick next to their one Superbowl under Dungy because The AFC Championship game that year had allegations of CROWD NOISEGATE. BTW, The officials gave the Ravens 7-10 seconds on every single (all 3 of them) runningback inelible play and they were never run in succession and Vereen had to be off the field and report as ineligle before the play. He reported as eligible on the only play he stayed on the field immediately following one of the controversial plays which was perfectly legal. Dungy should just go and read his Bible to strengthen his holier than thou attitude because he interprets the rules just like every other coach does. To their own teams benefit or should I say Anti-Patriots benefit. Jealous LOSER

  197. Just so I’m clear… Tony Dungy washed out as an NFL Head Coach, and he now has a part time job as a commentator. So, his current credibility comes from exactly where? The man quit the game years ago and now his reason to be is cashing checks. Obviously, if he can create some tempest in a teapot, he gets a moment in the limelight and his payday gets a bump. Most of the dubious experts commenting on this story are only interested in ‘page views’ ‘clicks’ ‘forwards’ and ‘shares’. They are lining their own pockets and giggling as the chumps who see their spew as relevant spray it around the internets.

  198. The Patsies’ day of reckoning will come. Kraft & Hoodie won’t be around much longer. When Kraft passes/sells, there’s a good chance they’ll be bought by a Chowdahead Dan Snyder equivalent. Remember and enjoy these times Patsy fans, for they are fleeting.

  199. Caretaker: Most of these old boys don’t have nothing. Never had nothing to start with. But you, You had it all. Then you let your teammates down, got yourself caught with your hand in the cookie jar.

    Paul Crewe: Oh I did, did I?

    Caretaker: Oh I ain’t saying you did or you didn’t. All I’m saying is that you could have robbed banks, sold dope or stole your grandmother’s pension checks and none of us would have minded. But shaving points off of a football game, man that’s un-American.

  200. Comments and social media. The 21st Century version of mob rule and hysteria. Issue with the NFL now is each coach, player, exec. and sportswriter feels obligated to outdo the last comment. I wish some people out there would donate as much of their time to charitable orgs as they have to talking and writing about deflated balls and other “issues.”

  201. To me this is a referee issue and it is yet another example of how the officials lack control of the game and understanding of the rules. The regs have been embarrassing this postseason with bad calls, missed calls, extremely controversial calls, and some how allowing a team to deflate balls when they are suppose to be in possession of the referees after being checked. IF the Patriots are breaking any rules here, with the eligible ineligble game, its on the officials to catch it and slow it down. If no rules are being broken then shut up and find a way to defend it.

    I have seen teams in college line up with just a center and have the rest of the line on the other side of the field. Deceptive? Yes. But if it’s in the rules then no harm done. You need to be creative to win. There was a time when play action passes, flea flickers, reverses, double reverses, wild cat, wr/hb throws, and more were new to the game and likely caused some controversy but they are all within the rules. You can win using the same strategies from the past century or you can be creative and find new ways to fool defenses.

  202. masonsmith says:
    Jan 24, 2015 1:48 AM
    Disguising coverages is not the same as playing deceptive player substitution and eligibile/ineligible games–don’t be absurd.
    ====
    It absolutely is. It’s the offensive mirror image of a zone block Someone staying home to block that should be running a route

    It’s not BB’s fault that his opponents are dumb.

    CORRECT…BUT DO NOT WORRY..

    The competition committee will come up with something to prevent this for next year…Just like Dungy & Polian ruined football with the 5 yard rule.

  203. johnodocks says:
    Jan 23, 2015 11:15 PM
    You people keep saying that what they’re doing is legal. It’s not. That’s what Dungy’s explaining and which is going right over your heads. He’s saying they’re doing it in a way that makes it difficult for the referees to catch. Next year they’re going to have to employee more refs to look for yet another Patriot illegal tactic. That team is going to be responsible for the demise of the NFL.

    Thejets2001suck now says to that: OK OK. Apparently reading comprehension isn’t a strong suit to non Patriots fans here. I will explain this for you. Everything the Patriots did against the Ravens was correct and legal. The NFL has said this time and again. The ref waits each time there is a player reporting from NE. At one point, the referee even tells the Ravens defense they don’t have to cover Vereen. That’s cheating in its own right, but a topic for a different post. The fact that the Ravens were so confused by this simply goes to show that they were outcoached. Deception has been a part of the NFL forever. There is no such thing as unwritten rules. I have noticed that most intelligent fans in here understand this. I just want to clear this up for the last few confused souls that ignore stated fact. Thank you.

  204. I also cant remember clearly, but wasnt Dungy whining when Willie Mac faked his knee injury to get the Pats a timeout on D and then two plays later Willie Mac stuffed Edge at the 1 and then ran full speed down the field cuz the Pat sealed the win? Now he’s advocating for teams to do exactly that to stop us? The hypocrisy is amazing.

  205. Wait… So the defenses can’t count who the 5 interior players are lined up on the LOS and understand the ineligibles? Or is Dungy just saying all this because NE doesn’t have a black QB or HC?

  206. Hey Tony, remember when the Dolphins unveiled their wildcat formation against the Patriots and smoked ’em?
    Was that unfair trickery, or great scheming? Bottom line, it was nothing but a gimmick that had a short shelf-life.
    Remember when the Bengals used the same unbalanced line against the Pats earlier this season? Where’s your outrage??
    You cannot have it both ways. Please go back into obscurity you scrawny holier-than-thou poser.

  207. What the NFL needs to do, is educate the Referee’s BEFORE the game, to the tactic, how to recognize it and make sure that it is done properly. As noted it WAS done illegally several times, and the Refs did no pick up on it, so …..
    The Patriots cheated and got away with it.
    Even though some of the plays and tactics were legal, sometime the still cheated, and got away with it!!
    Cheating is cheating, and of course, we are talking about the Patriots …. who think cheating is GENIUS!

  208. No one does deceit and rule-skirting like Belichick. Of course, no one crosses the line like Belichick, either

  209. I’m a Seahawks fan and have no problem with the Patriots use of eligible/ineligible players. Love or Hate Bill, he’s a brilliant coach. It’s one more thing opposing defenses have to gameplan for, spending less time on the more important schemes they need to focus on. It’s not against the rules, so prepare for it, execute, stay disciplined to your assignment and it’s just like preparing for any other offensive formation. Quit crying Tony, winners don’t make excuses.

  210. fake an injury to intentionally slow the game to set your defense??? Would this be “cheating” or “gamesmanship”?
    Submitting a hot ball filled to the legal minimum, knowing it will deflate to a low pressure by game time…… cheating or gamesmanship?

    the list can go on and on. pine tar, stickum, gloves, fake punts bla bla bla

    as long as no video of a guy in camo sneaking in with a needle to bleed the ball, its all good to me

    sports are tacticle and that’s what the fun of it

  211. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

    I suspect the Hawks will respond with similar eligible/ineligible tactics during the game.

    I also suspect NE knows this and will be the ones faking injuries…

    Go Hawks!

  212. If a player reports in ineligible or eligible, the rules say the defense is to be notified. The Pats are doing it and purposely snapping the ball before notification can be given.

    Is that the Pats cheating, the refs losing control of the game or both?

    It’s easily solved. If the Pats do this the refs have to tell the defense whether that takes an official time out, not blowing the ball live or whatever.

    There’s precedent in Philly where they will not let them go as fast as they want.

    Of course they’re not owned by Krap or have Cheat or Shady.

  213. Let me get this straight, Tony:

    I report to an official that I am ineligible, after having sat out the previous play.

    He reports to the defense “lemmetalkwouldya” is ineligible, do not cover “lemmetalkwouldya”

    My center gives you 7-10 seconds before he snaps the ball, to have time to digest everything and set up accordingly, or call a time-out because you are totally confused.

    Instead, you stay in the same defense and cover me anyway, even though the official told you not to because I am declared ineligible.

    You fall for this THREE STRAIGHT TIMES.

    But I’m “breaking the rules”?????

  214. I find it funny how a common it is for coaches and players to intentionally to break the rules or ‘cheat’, such as in the case of players faking an injury, to give his team a rest to gain competitive advantage. Maybe Tony should provide a list of the rules that are OK to break and and another of all of the legal plays which are intended to deceive which teams should not be allowed to use.

    The fact that some has to point out to him that he is advocating cheating (as defined by breaking a rule) and retract his comment shows the hypocrisy in these self righteous ex coaches and players.

  215. It is hard for me to take anything Dungy says very seriously. He is not consistent in his analysis of all teams. He picks and chooses on teams he does not like and never criticizes teams he has a former affiliation with. Has he every criticized Peyton Manning for how terrible he played in the last two post seasons? Has he ever criticized the Colts for how they were out coached when they played their last game? Did he criticize Coach Caldwell for being too conservative in his play calling when the lions lost to the Cowboys. Mr. Dungy, if you want to be taken seriously, be critical of all teams. Let this be your new year’s resolution!!!!!

  216. It’s a very simple problem to fix. Anytime a player reports as eligible/ineligible, there is an additional 10 seconds added before the ball is placed down and can be hiked. The defense will have enough time to read the new players on the field. The play clock stays the same.

  217. Dungy has an anti Patriots bias that has to be countered by Dan and Rodney any time the Patriots are on NBC. He doesn’t even try to hide it. I suspect it’s because they kicked his butt year after year.

  218. Dungy is an idiot and needs to fired. Deception is part of the the game. Misdirection plays are all about deception, if a coach knows how to use rules better than others then that makes him the smarter coach. If the coach knows the rules better than the referees, then the league needs to train the refs better or hire more competent refs.

  219. Tom’s now a liar, Bill is a proven cheat, Mr. Hernandez is up on double murder charges and the owner think Vladimir Putin has stolen his super bowl ring. Go Pats!

  220. Dungy is an idiot and needs to be fired. Deception is part of the the game. Misdirection plays are all about deception, if a coach knows how to use rules better than others then that makes him the smarter coach. If the coach knows the rules better than the referees, then the league needs to train the refs better or hire more competent refs.

  221. Sounds like a lot of sour grapes from all those losses to the Pats when he was coaching. It is currently within the rules, and is frankly a bit genius to try to gain the advantage. It is kind of like when the wildcat was first unveiled and no one knew how to defend it immediately. But, the other teams caught up. With an offseason, teams will figure out how to combat this as well.

    All that said, Dungy’s argument about “deceiving” is just stupid. Defenses try to disguise coverages and whether or not they are blitzing and who may blitz. Offenses us shifts, motion, and play action. The game is about deception. Don’t cry now because someone else is better at it than you ever were.

  222. Speaking as a football fan, I think it’s a safe bet that the New England Patriots are going to be locked in on Super Bowl Sunday.

  223. Dungy is totally right. It would be like a pitcher in baseball being able to throw a pitch as soon as a batter puts two feet in the batter’s box, even if he’s not ready. Or a basketball team being able to run a play once there are technically five defensive players on the floor, even if they just left the bench. Both of those sports have rules about allowing the other team to get set first, but football clearly does not.

  224. sorosbolshevism says:
    Jan 24, 2015 9:38 AM
    The Patsies’ day of reckoning will come. Kraft & Hoodie won’t be around much longer. When Kraft passes/sells, there’s a good chance they’ll be bought by a Chowdahead Dan Snyder equivalent. Remember and enjoy these times Patsy fans, for they are fleeting.

    Maybe you don’t know that Bob Kraft was a fan before he bought the Patriots. Maybe you don’t know that he bought the team when they were in a down cycle and there was talk of them leaving the area. Maybe you don’t know that unlike the majority of other teams, Bob Kraft used his own money (not the taxpayer’s) to finance the stadium where the team plays. Maybe you don’t know that this is a family owned franchise and Jonathan Kraft Bob”s son is the VP and is much younger than Bob.
    The likelihood is that even though some things may change, the team ownership isn’t
    one of them, so we will enjoy these great times and continue to enjoy this team no matter what the future may bring. That’s what real fans do.

  225. Beli-cheat and Shady-Brady overshadowing their own tainted accomplishments again. Can’t blame the Pats fans for being so defensive. The legacy that isn’t, overshadowed by their own “brilliant” mistakes. Being a genius gets you screwed, the nfl creates new rules because you look for loopholes instead of playing man up. Yay, the kicker is lined up at the left tackle and the guard is taking the snap, is he eligible, ineligible, oh wait the ref picked up his flag. What a bunch of BS. Anybody have kids that play sports? A lot to look upto here.

  226. Some of y’all are being completely ignorant and petty in your posts. I’m not a pats fan but at the same time am not “jealous” of them. I’m actually impressed by them and how long they’ve managed to stay so good behind Brady and Belichek so I’m not a “hater” either and don’t personally believe this would be a story if not for the fact that its the patriots and a lot of people hate them simply because of their success but how many of y’all are actually reading the story and not just the headline mentioning Dungy commenting on the patriots and going straight to criticizing him? He’s not saying its illegal at all. I for one agree with him on the fact that the patriots are not giving the defense time to be informed of the change in eligibility something that as a rule should be done. Yes the formation is legal but at the same time players are waiting til the last second to report then quickly lining up to run the play so the defense won’t know who to cover and while I wouldn’t call that cheating its still an unfair advantage. It’s not the same as just running a hurry up offense or throwing in a tricky formation it’s not even the same as doing both at the same time. It’s changing eligibility which again per rules the defense should be told about and trying to get the snap off before the defense is informed. To me that’s shady as hell. At the same time there’s no excuse for any team getting beat by this formation from here on out.

  227. Please,please…somebody get rid of Tony Dunheap!!!! Why do we have to see him at all? He says the most plain idiotic things. Mr Potatoe head at best. Make him go AWAY!!!

  228. Mr. Dungy you should me mad at Peyton for your job lose not BB.Peyton will always get a pass
    when somebody talks about him as he never loses a Super Bowl as he never gets in them.

    The reason the NFL burned the Spygate papers is that six other teams were on that paper.Nfl did not want to punish all.If that had happened good old Roger Goddell would have looked just like he looks now not able to do the job.
    After all this deflate gate BS talk. I went on WIKI
    to read on some of the Coaches stats and their perfect careers. It schocked me to find out how many of them have done things against the rules and still think it was their right.It might surprise everbody who post and read the artices from former football players how few of these guys actually have Super bowl rings and not many have more than one.

  229. Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan are saying the same things Tony is.

    There is a lot of negative attention here. I think the NFL is going to do something to the Patriots. The fans are expecting 100% beef….but we’re getting 80% beef 20% filler. The NFL is just not as exciting when 1 team is cheating. There are going to be 31 owners asking Roger “WTF?”

    If you’re an owner investing 100’s of millions, or billions of dollars in a team. You are going to be pissed about what is happening in these playoffs.

  230. I’m more interested in who this clown is picking for the superbowl. He has a history of picking the wrong team in big games so it is very likely the team he picks will lose.

    His most recent pick that was way off was picking the Colts to beat the Pats last week.

    Not hard to see why this guy failed so much come playoff time given the teams he picks to win and the reasons why he is picking them.

  231. It’s all part of the game. Remember when the Giants defense flopped and faked injuries during the last SB to slow down the Pats offense? It worked really well. The Pats would get into a rhythm and then a Giant would go down with a cramp and then suddenly the Patriots weren’t humming anymore. This is what Dungy is remembering.

  232. You can bet, to avoid embarrassment, if the Patriots use an odd formation in the Super Bowl, the refs will unfairly call an official time out to be sure they are not making mistakes. This will be an advantage for Seattle. Consequently, I don’t see any of these formations being used in the Super Bowl. That will be our loss.

  233. The only reason Belichick uses these deceptive tactics is that he knows his players are inferior to their competition. Otherwise, he’d be able to beat teams straight up. Winning is the only salvation for him just like Lombardi. Sorry if the truth hurts the ignorant.

  234. What the Patriots were doing with their formations was perfectly legal. It might have been deceptive, and certainly unorthodox…. but its within the rules the way they are written.

    So to stop a legal play, Dungy freely admits he was instruct his team to fake injuries, which is illegal? Welp, according to the logic of most football fans that pretty much cast a shadow on his entire career because hey, once a cheater always a cheater.

  235. most everyone on here is just mad that there team is on vacation and for the Seattle fans they must of forgotten about Pete Carroll and USC and paying players to get an advantage in college football… Enough said Go PATS and time to GRONK some Hawks

  236. I was totally disappointed in Dungy, who claims to be a man of integrity, for suggesting the use of a clearly illegal tactic. So he’d be a cheater if they’d let him coach again.

    I’m glad he retracted it, but I think his character is stained forever as his first statement showed he is willing to cheat.

  237. And Florio, I’m totally disappointed in your take on Dungy’s original comments. You didn’t even hint that there was a moral problem with what he said, or indicate that the proper approach was to take it up with Competition committee. Yet in a complete opposite way, you’re willing to hint at problems with everything that Belichick says.

    I truly thought you were objective and open-minded, given your first posts back on Monday and Tuesday, in all of this craziness. But I’m beginning to see that it’s not really so. Disappointing.

  238. winninaintsinnin says: Jan 24, 2015 10:59 AM

    If a player reports in ineligible or eligible, the rules say the defense is to be notified. The Pats are doing it and purposely snapping the ball before notification can be given.

    OH MY FREAKIN’ GOD!!! Are you a FREAKIN’ KIDDING ME!!! YOU ARE GIVING ALL HATERS EVEN MORE OF A RETARDED PROFILE!!!

    The Patriots ran the play 3 times. Each time the referee pointed to the Ravens defensive captain and then pointed to Vereen and said “THIS MAN IS INELIGIBLE DO NOT COVER HIM!!! Also 7-10 seconds each time before the ball was snapped. How much time should they give the Defense? …HATER Have you even ever watched a football game in your life? Have you ever seen a team run up to the line of scrimmage and snap the ball the very second the ref places it on the ground under center because they know the other team might challenge the play before and as long as the ball is snapped the red flag cannot be dropped. Did you watch Seattle fake a field goal and have the holder throw a touchdown pass to that 300 pound offensive lineman because no one on Green Bay thought to cover him. Should we now call Seattle Cheaters for deceiving the Packers on that play? Get real, get a life and get off a football site you tool!!!

  239. Patriots were using illegal formations to cover the fact the balls were underinflated. The formations were legal, it was the way they were utilized to manipulate the officiating is what made them illegal. Patriots can’t win without cheating.

  240. Another coach that’s had his career playoff record neutered by Belichick and the Pats. The Pats are not breaking any rules they’re being innovative. The rest of the league has yet to catch up. Dundy is just showing his sour grapes…just like Harbaugh….just like all the other teams, coaches and fans that keep getting derailed in the playoffs because the Pats are always there.

    SOUR GRAPES SOUR GRAPES SOUR GRAPES SOUR GRAPES……..

  241. Did the NFL not already say that there was nothing illegal about the substitutions??? What’s all the fuss about? Harbaugh already complained to the league and they said that there was nothing illegal about the substitutions. Chuck Pagano called the NFL to find out if the substitutions were legal and they said “YES”

  242. jimthebuilder27 says:
    Jan 23, 2015 9:44 PM
    Belichick cheats cheats cheat but the league never does anything and always let’s him get away with it
    ——————————————————–
    Ignorant statement. Fined half a million dollars is getting away with it? Losing a first round draft pick isn’t getting away with it. Remember, this was common practice in the league. The rule change made the spot where the filming was done against the rules. They can and still do tape signals to this day. The friggen Jets did the same damn thing after ratting out the Patriots! I’m lookin at you Man-pukus. There’s a conspiracy against the Patriots, that much is clear. It can never be admitted there is because that would be even worse than that egregious infraction of having 2 psi under the limit. Oh the horror! I’m convinced there is mass jealousy among those teams who have repeatedly been schooled by Belichick. Belichick has mastered the salary cap era and everyone hates him for it. Until I see Rogers called on the mat and proclaimed a cheater for over inflating, and publicly admitting he does,also against the rules, I find all this just a case of hating the Patriots because you aren’t the Patriots.

  243. a quarterback doing a hardcount at the line of scrimmage is ALSO an intent to deceive!

    Dungy is such a hater.

    So many of these coaches just cant deal with Belichick! They go crying to the league. Been going on for 15 years.

    Mom and Daddy NFL commissioner please help us from being outsmarted by Bill Belichick!

  244. Old BB isn’t a genius for this latest mess this is being done in high school and college. Alabama used this last year. But in high school it’s no big deal cause a zone D at that skill level negates it. In the pros its a bigger deal. But it’s not genius it’s no ethics. Coaches could have done this years ago. But they thought it was under handed and cheating… Right up Old Billy’s alley.

  245. Sometimes people get so caught up in trying to find fault with something that someone thought of before them that they can’t see the forest through the trees….

    This is Football 101, people…

    On the line of scrimmage, only the guys on the end can go downfield.

    What is so freakin’ difficult about that?

    And he’s an NFL coach?

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