Bucs did extensive vetting of Jameis Winston

AP

If the Buccaneers don’t make Jameis Winston their latest potential franchise quarterback in four days, they’ve managed to concoct an impressive smoke screen.

The Tampa Tribune has published extensive details of the vetting of Winston by the Buccaneers, which could be viewed as a deliberate effort to address any lingering concerns about Winston’s character.

Via the Tribune, G.M. Jason Licht said the Buccaneers “spoke to upwards of 75 people” about Winston.  The Tribune has determined that those “upwards of 75 people” include “family members, friends, teammates, former high school coaches, former college coaches and an assistant state attorney.”

“[W]e all couldn’t feel more confident about the process we have gone through,” Licht said.

The process, as PFT previously has reported, included contact with assistant Tallahassee district attorney Georgia Cappleman, who spoke to the Bucs not only about Erica Kinsman (who claims Winston sexually assaulted her) but also about a second victim to whom Kinsman’s lawsuit against Winston refers.

“I advised them that there was another woman who received some counseling services from Florida State University as a result of an encounter with Mr. Winston that was of a sexual nature,” Cappleman told the Tribune.  While Cappleman hasn’t personally spoken to the second victim, Cappleman said the second victim “doesn’t even consider herself a victim.”

As to Kinsman, the Buccaneers haven’t spoken to her or to her lawyers.

“When vetting any potentially credible accusation of off-field misconduct, I’d expect NFL teams to learn both sides and not just listen to the player, agent, and coach,” Kinsman lawyer Baine Kerr told the Tribune. “Due diligence should include learning the facts from the accuser’s point of view.”

While it’s important to conduct a fair and thorough investigation, it’s a no-win proposition for the Buccaneers to communicate directly with persons having a clear bias and financial incentive against Winston.  If the team gets too close to the controversy, the team becomes a pawn in the legal chess/checkers/chicken game between Winston and Kinsman.

We can’t believe that the Buccaneers still made Winston the first overall pick despite all the information we shared with them.

Some would say that the mere existence of so many questions about Winston, from the BB gun incident to the crab-leg caper to the sexual-assault allegation to the shouting of the vulgar Internet memo to the recent change in the crab-leg explanation is enough to justify passing on Winston and selecting someone else with potentially equivalent talent but zero off-field entanglements that require investigation and explanation.  But franchise quarterbacks are hard to find in the draft, and the Buccaneers in nearly 40 years of existence never have.  As Ira Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune said on a recent edition of PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio, the Buccaneers have never given a second contract to any quarterback they drafted.

That list includes, working backward, Mike Glennon, Josh Freeman, Josh Johnson, Bruce Gradkowski, Chris Simms, Joe Hamilton, Shaun King, Trent Dilfer, Craig Erickson, Mike Pawlawski, Pat O’Hara, Vinny Testaverde, Mike Shula, Blair Kiel, Steve Young, Mike Ford, Chuck Fusina, Doug Williams, Randy Hedberg, and Parnell Dickinson.

That’s 20 quarterbacks in 39 drafts.  Winston apparently will become No. 21, and the franchise seems to be ready to assume the risk that Winston could be yet another Buccaneer bust, whether due to on-field play or off-field problems.

If he is, maybe the 22nd quarterback drafted by the franchise will be the one to get a second contract.

62 responses to “Bucs did extensive vetting of Jameis Winston

  1. “When vetting any potentially credible accusation of off-field misconduct, I’d expect NFL teams to learn both sides and not just listen to the player, agent, and coach,” Kinsman lawyer Baine Kerr told the Tribune. “Due diligence should include learning the facts from the accuser’s point of view.”

    ————————————————
    All the media has done is reporting from the accuser’s point of view?

  2. If talking to friends and family is considered extensive vetting is it any wonder that Tampa Bay is picking first in the draft this year and many years to come. That’s ridiculous.

  3. Don’t most of those people they reportedly talked to have a vested if not direct interest in Winston being drafted as high as possible?

  4. The simple process would be….if he were considered for the position of a CEO of a company would the board of directors hire him?( with these allegations) or if he were a political candidate would the party considering him give him their endorsement? But this is the NFL and their standards are different. I don’t know if this guy is innocent of these charges or not, but consider this, if you had these charges against you, would you have been hired for your job?

  5. It’s worth noting that three of those 21 QBs won Super Bowls with their second teams, one is a HOFer, and a fourth went on to have a pretty successful career as well.

  6. In addition to the reasons stated in the article for the Bucs not interviewing the accuser or her attorneys, it stands to reason that the evidence contained in case file – which includes physical evidence, phone records, email correspondence between both counsels, witness statements, statements from the accuser, along with the contents of the state attorney’s investigation – has led the Bucs to not believe what the accuser or her attorneys are claiming.

    There’s also that.

  7. Another hit piece ripping Winston and the Bucs for having the nerve to still be interested in him. What a shocker PFT… As a Bucs fan I can’t wait to see him dropping bombs to VJax and Evans all over the NFC South.

  8. This is a sad case. Police did not investigate further because they did believe her story even before anyone knew a football player was involved. Kinsman supposedly had a boyfriend and chose to go home with three strangers. After being “raped” she didn’t call 9-1-1 but rode home on the buck of a scooter driven by her alleged rapist. She claimed she was drugged and physically hit that caused her to be knocked unconscious. Tests showed none of that was true.

    But when the Heisman race heated up and an unscrupulous attorney got involved, a little white lie wreaked havoc on two lives.

    In this politically correct world we live in, you can pile on the accused a lot easier than you can can vocally defend the innocent when it comes to certain crimes. The more Tallahassee Police speak out on it now, the more fodder they give for when the lawsuit comes. Right now, people can just say that police would ignore a raped young lady. Ask any cop you know. This is absurd.

    Neither Kinsman nor Winston will come out better for this. But even after Kinsman doesn’t get a dime from Jameis, Tallahassee Police, or Florida State University, Kinsman’s lawyer’s aggressive reputation will grow.

    Winston, if you believe he is innocent of the serious crime. will mature past the equivalent of “frat gags”that he pulled and make at lease tens of millions of dollars off his rookie contract.

    Kinsman, on the other hand, has left school. I hope she is getting counseling and can go on from her pressures and traumatization. I hope she is able to finish college somewhere and this experience does not scar her for life.

    All this because some attorney said “trust, me, they’ll settle. They won’t want this to go public.”

    And that is the world we live in.

  9. ” I don’t know if this guy is innocent of these charges or not, but consider this, if you had these charges against you, would you have been hired for your job?”

    =================================

    Ummm, there were NEVER ANY CHARGES.

    but alas, that is the mindset.

    Damn I wish everyone would stop being lazy? For the love of clarity folks, grab a good bottle of vino, kick back, and READ THE FACTS…a few thousand pages, yes, but another bottle is always at arms reach?

  10. This has the feel of whistling past a graveyard. The investigation was done without the litigation tools that are now available to Mr. Winston’s accuser. The article is, at best, hearsay and at worst wishful thinking. Once under oath, testimony may change substantially. The investigation was done without sworn testimony, subpoena power, formal discovery, etc.

    If selected, Tampa is buying into a torrent of negative and critical local media coverage of the lawsuit.

    The only way that huge distraction goes away is if Mr. Winston and his accuser reach a confidential settlement. Failure to reach such a settlement will reduce Mr. Winston’s appeal to advertisers by far more than the settlement would cost

  11. The Bucs should jump on those Philly/Cleveland trade rumors. Netting 3 first-round picks and some change would go a long way towards rebuilding the NFL’s worst roster.

  12. Looking at that list of QBs it becomes clear they are in the habit of not giving guys enough of a chance to excel before giving up on them. They’re about to do it again with Mike Glennon.

    Teams that are perennially bad tend to be badly run from the top down. I kind of feel bad for whoever ends up getting drafted by the Bucs.

  13. Peyton Manning paid a settlement to a woman for placing his testicles on her face while in college at Tennessee.

    Jamie Ann Naughright described it in a deposition entered into the court record: “It was the gluteus maximus, the rectum, the testicles and the area in between the testicles. And all that was on my face when I pushed him (Peyton Manning) up. … To get leverage, I took my head out to push him up and off.”

    Jameis Winston was not convicted nor did he pay a settlement to his accuser… unlike Peyton Manning.

  14. The Bucs don’t have much choice but to pick Winston. They need a marquee name to generate some interest in the on field product.

    The Florida teams picked a bad time to perform poorly. Many have now realized that watching 6 games in an air conditioned home or establishment is better than those early season games played in oppressive heat.
    .

  15. Williams, Dilfer, Young and Testerverde, have SIXTY YEARS of NFL experience.

    The incompetence is not from the picks but from the ability to either see what you have or train them to succeed.

  16. Hell… It’s a game…not like if he’s the 1st pick the world will fall off it’s axis… I’m sure there is some undergraduate in college at this point in time, that will significantly change the course of humanity more than him… Let’s focus here, in other words… Tampa bay will draft him, and then regret it… Lol

  17. A lot of people will off there tickets if the bucs pick this guy. Do you really think I would take family and drop 300 bucks to watch a thief and abuser of woman. Nice face of the franchise. Are the bucs this stupid. They could trade down and still draft the thief if they are that convinced

  18. Why you would seek to guy who will create a PR nightmare there is unclear to me. First, a civil suit. Now questions about shoplifting.

    But I guess if Hardy gets a contract, anything’s possible in the NFL.

    I wouldn’t be drafting this guy.

  19. There’s always been the 2nd girl that everyone from FSU sycophants to news media have glossed over.

    No doubt she has already settled with the Winston camp. And who can blame her after what Kinsman went through.

    But I’ll tell you what…no female prosecutor, who never spoke to the 2nd girl would go out of her way to venture a guess with any certainty that the “2nd girl does not consider herself a victim”. She would have no access to any records that would allow her to make this judgement. That alone should make this report from the Bucs suspicious.

    Also, always the FSU sycophants bring up evidence like they know what happened. The District Attorney who has the same info has gone on record as saying “nothing good happened that night”. That is not the words of a District Attorney who absolves Winston. If anything the opposite.

    He has said publicly many times, the mismanagement of the case by the TPD mad it impossible a year later to bring charges.

    This report is garbage and I can’t wait until the media gets Cappleman’s response on the 2nd girl. Funny, because last week the Bucs claimed they spoke directly to Meggs the District Attorney, this week it’s the Asst. District Attorney.

  20. m4hawk says: Apr 26, 2015 1:29 PM

    A lot of people will off there tickets if the bucs pick this guy. Do you really think I would take family and drop 300 bucks to watch a thief and abuser of woman. Nice face of the franchise. Are the bucs this stupid. They could trade down and still draft the thief if they are that convinced

    ——————————————–

    Yet you would be the first person in line to buy tickets to a Bucs game for your family if Peyton Manning was traded to Tampa Bay.

    So, you’re either a hypocrite or a racist.

  21. So many mi guided folks talking about giving up season tickets because of Winston.. He’s no choir boy for sure, but AP whooped his kid senseless, Cowboys fans are crowing about Hardy punishment. Fans still cheered for Ray Lewis. The NFL won’t miss you if you go…don’t let the door hit ya..
    ..

  22. The Bucs can do all the vetting they want to substantiate their drafting of Winston but his track record is what it is. He has talent but he attracts trouble like flies are attracted to honey. The Bucs are headed for distractions and disappointment if they draft this player. The draft is a gamble but you have to do your homework. Licht’s and Lovie Smith’s job may depend on this one selection if he does not work out and ends up imploding an already bad football team.

  23. csbanter says:

    Cowboys fans are crowing about Hardy punishment.
    =====================================

    No we aren’t. Most of us don’t want that clown on our team.

  24. The article said the second woman doesn’t consider herself to be a victim… Yet.
    She and/or her legal council is smart enough to wait until after Winston is drafted so that the money train isn’t derailed before it gets started.

  25. 23 QBs drafted and not one was given a second contract?

    And folks complain about the Dolphins not giving a second contract to the 12 QBs they had since Marino (not counting Tannehill, who will likely get a second contract).

  26. If they pick him then they deserve every bit of criticism that will come their way. The fact of the matter is that he isn’t that good even if you ignore his character issues…. The fact that he is a ticking time bomb should scare any team off. Ponder was a bust, Manuel was a bust and Winston would be a super bust if he was #1 overall.

  27. That’s a sad list of QBs. The only person on the list that deserved another contract was Doug Williams but thanks to Hugh Culverhouse, you know why that didn’t happen. Winston is about to change that franchise. Lovie’s got his Peyton Manning to take him from good coach to something special like Dungy did.

  28. …? I’m very curious. Could any of you here who understand the whole “drafting and GM” game way more than I currently Do help me to understand WHY? Would a team such as the Bucs this year, who hold the #1 overall pick need to devise, clever or general “smoke screen” tactics??

    Because, ATM I’m of the mind that if you’re holding the #1 overall it doesn’t seem that there is any risk of losing any potential options or of any team being able to affect that position.

    Is that wrong? What are the possible reasons the Bucs would be pitting in that kind of effort into “smoke screen tactics” or the scenarios they’d be trying to avoid here?

  29. ttommytom says:
    Apr 26, 2015 1:07 PM

    Williams, Dilfer, Young and Testerverde, have SIXTY YEARS of NFL experience.

    The incompetence is not from the picks but from the ability to either see what you have or train them to succeed.

    >>>>>
    And Lovie is going to know what to do?

    You have to be kidding me!

  30. Who was the moron in Tampa Bay who signed off on trading Steve Young for the 50th pick in the draft (plus a throwaway pick if you’re Tampa Bay doing the drafting)???

    Where do they find idiots like that — and then hire them to key decision-making positions on NFL teams???

  31. They had a franchise QB when they drafted Trent Dilfer. He got a Super Bowl ring, right? LOL!!!

  32. One of the greatest stats in history. Ranks up there with the Cardinals only drafting 5 QB’s in the 1st round since 1960. 2 of the 5(Joe Namath & Kelly Stouffer) never played for them. The others? George Izo, Steve Pisarkiewic & Matt Leinart.

  33. After 20+ years of fans of the Bucs, my family and I will so give up on them if they draft Winston….. The Bus are a hopeless case if hey draft so foolishly…. RJS more empty than it has ever been in its history….

  34. Facts are facts, and this guy has character issues. Stealing crab legs..fact, going on rant on top of a table..fact, BB gun incident…fact. There is more but those are indeed facts. Alleged Rape x 2. Good luck if draft this clown 1st over all.

  35. “Interviews included assistant state attorney.”

    Let’s just hope the Bucs have taken a step back to soak that in. Anytime a predraft process includes legal and criminal issues of this magnitude, the team and their fanbase should give pause.

    On the other hand, it all could all easily be a testament to the times we live in. Accusers and lawyers eager to make big money……

    Man what a tough decision.

  36. You never pick a QB in the first round if he’s not a relatively sure thing. Never a guy with question marks because even a relative sure-thing can still tank on you. How often has a guy with a bunch of question marks put his team over the top and carried them to a championship?

    When you have the #1 pick and there isn’t a #1 consensus talent available, you trade out of it.

  37. You people claim to be Bucs fans but you say you will get rid of your season tickets if they draft Winston. Let me guess. You are also fans of the Gators and/or the Hurricanes. Im sorry neither one of your teams have produced a quarterback latsly that is evem draft worthy. You are basically wanting everybody to damn this kid for being just that, a kid. Ray Lewis killed a whole person and nobody seemed to have a problem woth him playing in the league amd being the face of a franchise, and unlike Lewis, Jameis Winston has not been formally charged with rape or anything else for that matter. The kid is the most quarterback ready of the two. Plus he has the size Mariota doesn’t. Not to mention the locker room presence the dude possesses. If I had season tickets and they dont draft Winston. I WOULD get rid of my tickets. God bless and GO NOLES!

  38. Oh and to answer the above question…who lifts their team up and helps win them a championship with question marks above his head? JAMESIS WINSTON DID IT.

  39. At the end of the day….

    Winston will be earning more income in just his signing bonus, for playing a game, than most of us pft posters will earn our entire lifetime of 9-5 slaving away at work.

    Is reality whacked or what? Good for you kid…good for you!

  40. Talking to family and friends that have a personal bias for Jameis Winston and personal gain involved vs talking to victim that has person bias against Jameis and possible personal gain in the future. Hmmm…..Seems to me if you are going to talk to one side, you should also speak to the other side.

    I am a woman so I have a question: They keep saying the 2nd victim doesn’t even consider herself a victim yet she was so “disturbed” by her encounter with Jameis Winston that she sought counselling. What exactly do you call that?

  41. You call it wanting to file a civil suit when jameis gets that first paycheck. Obviously I have a biased opinion on the matter but you have the one girl who doesnt consodwr herself a victim and you got another that was in a group on campus called “Cleat Chasers.” The fact of the matter there was no case according to the police department when it initially happened. There was no case when it became a national headline a year later And there was no case when the school investigated it after that. Im not saying that Jameis Winston isnt an idiot. Im saying he acts his age and the more serious of the folleys he allegedly committed he has been exonerated for so just let the kid play football like we have let every other murdering, raping, wife beating, child whipping, dog abusing, racist players play the game so its past due time to leave it alone and let my boy Jameis make my bucs a winning team again.

  42. Why are Kinsman’s word and many versions of events considered “golden” to so many of you? Why is it a given she’s telling the truth?

    Despite the evidence in the report [which I’m sure you’ve all read] which directly contradicts her version of events, why is it you declare Tom Robinson guilty?

  43. abrellbama,
    Nobody called her a victim except the people asking for money. If you read the story, Cappleman said that she told the Bucs that the lady didn’t consider herself a victim and also told them that the woman wouldn’t be a problem for them later on down the line. Also, for the people saying “why did they only talk to,” can you people not read? Licht also said they spoke to everyone under the sun and the more people they talked to, the more it confirmed something 1 way or the other. Just because it may not have confirmed hit pieces done on him by biased media people doesn’t mean it’s wrong, especially when you’re bringing up cursing out loud with your friends, getting a hookup, and being part of a group of other players (many of whom were much older than him btw but never get pointed out for some reason) having a BB gun fight as a true freshman as a “pattern of “bad behavior,” of him being a “sociopath,” or other such nonsense that people throw around like pop psychiatrists. But you’re right, every person he’s ever come in contact with “has a vested” interest in him making it. I’m sure Team Winston gave the Bucs brass a list of people to interview because that’s exactly what happens when people go digging for dirt, lol. And for the guy bringing up would politicians or CEOs be hired if this was going on, dude get your head out of your derriere. Also, for anyone thinking Willie Meggs’ office would do any black FSU player a favor, you go do a little research on that so you don’t sound so dumb on the subject.

  44. “You call it wanting to file a civil suit when Jameis Winston gets that first paycheck.
    ***********************************************************
    Have you even kept up with the case? Kinsman didn’t even know her assailant’s name when her friend called 911. She did everything the right way. She went and had a rape kit done at the hospital. Det Angulo is the one that botched the case so badly that she could never get the case to trial because the FSU boosters have him in their pockets. That man should have been fired. I hope he does get fired. He had done 2 jobs for the FSU boosters (off duty) and gotten paid by them long before Dec/2012. He didn’t do his job. Didn’t get the video tapes from PotBelly’s. Didn’t even interview the correct people. Did everything he could to bury the case. In 1/13, when she went to class, that is when she saw him and called the Det and gave him Jameis Winston’s name. He wasn’t even famous yet. She nor the other girl even knew he would be famous. HOW STUPID ARE YOU PEOPLE? You are almost as bad as Jameis Winston is.

  45. Can’t wait for Winston to be drafted #1 overall and prove to all you naysayers that it was a smart pick by Tampa Bay…..and no, I’m not a Bucs fan at all.

  46. Jameis is at the Hard Rock casino as I type this for Derrick Brooks foundation. If that doesn’t tell you he’s the #1 pick then I have beach front property to sell you in Oklahoma.

  47. abrellbama,
    Sure she didn’t know who he was, but she willingly jumped into a cab with him and his other humongous teammates to go to their apartment (this is confirmed on her mundane text messages that night leading up to and afterward and by her friends). You’re reaching on this one. The girl told a white lie because that’s what you do when you’re that age and don’t realize that throwing words around like “rape” kind of are serious things to avoid the scrutiny of her secret boyfriend (you know, the other DNA profile in the pants) since he’d been calling for her all night with no response or explanation for where she went from her friends who just saw her leave the bar with Jameis Winston before anybody on the national stage knew who he was. Yeah, she didn’t know who he was, which is very plausible in a large university like FSU especially in the freshman classes, but not so plausible when you keep digging and find out she had a class with him, had social media correspondence with him before and after that night, etc. But hey, you believe what you want to believe. Also, for the people who keep saying it’s why she dropped out at FSU, she left the school ong before this became public. But maybe you can explain those Tweets about how great Jameis did in the Clemson game in 2013, a couple of weeks before she was about to claim that same guy violently raped me. Something’s fishy besides the crab legs here, and it sure isn’t Winston’s story.

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