Patriots told Wells that Colts and other teams tampered with footballs

AP

As Ted Wells investigated Deflategate, the Patriots asked him to investigate whether other teams — including the Colts, whose complaint to the league got the whole thing started — had previously tampered with footballs.

The Patriots’ rebuttal to Wells’s report includes a letter describing the information the Patriots turned over to Wells and his staff. That letter references the Patriots’ contention that other teams may have tampered with footballs in violation of league rules.

“The Patriots also supplied information to Mr. Wells about a prior reported incident of actual ball tampering which took place during a Vikings-Panthers game in 2014. Evidence was also provided that Indianapolis ball boys, in a prior season, had been seen by Jacksonville personnel with ball needles hidden under their long sleeves,” the Patriots’ letter says.

The NFL has already acknowledged that both teams broke the rules on football preparation during the Vikings-Panthers game. In that case, the league let both teams off with a simple warning not to do it again. The Patriots are, understandably, upset that they were given such a harsh punishment while the Vikings and Panthers got away with no punishment at all.

But the accusation that Colts ball boys may have let air out of footballs is new. The Patriots’ statement doesn’t say when that happened or whether the league took any action about it. But it sure would be something if it turned out that the Colts were guilty of deflating footballs, too. That’s what the Patriots are suggesting.

189 responses to “Patriots told Wells that Colts and other teams tampered with footballs

  1. So which one is it, you’re guilty and want lesser punishment or you’re completely innocent?

  2. Even in defeat, the pats never shut the hell up.

    You got caught…again.

    It’s over just give it up.

  3. Today an excellent fresh analysis was done on the charge that the Pats have been fumbling less than other teams since 2007. Over at BR, Mike Tanier looked at the data anew. I rebutted this charge myself looking at the data; now Tanier has done so too. His article looks at the last three years (mine went back four years to keep my post from being so long at PFT) and Tanier found that both the Ravens and the Saints beat the Pats for having a lowest fumble rate through 2012-2014. His article is entitled:
    Did Deflated Footballs Really Give the Patriots a Fumble Advantage?
    By Mike Tanier, NFL National Lead Writer
    May 14, 2015

    I ask readers to go and look at it. Let’s put this fallacious argument to bed once and for all that the Pats have some sort of fumbling advantage, and that they have been deflating footballs since 2007.

  4. Only 4 of the Colts footballs were tested and 3 were under the limit. Why weren’t the other eight tested? Ask the NFL.

  5. The Pats may have been hammered too hard, but the “all my friends get to stay out past midnight so I should too” excuse hasn’t really been effective since, well, since there have been moms.

  6. No reason why pats past dealings can’t be looked into now with this appeal then. They are the ones asking the NFL to do so to others.

  7. The Patriots are embarrassing themselves tremendously. Pats fans – whether or not you agree with the punishment there is no way you can agree with how the pats are acting. It’s a joke and they are acting like a little kid not getting their way at recess. I hope the punishment increases

  8. ANY team that was caught AFTER the warnings for other teams was going to be hit hard. Should the NFL just give every team in the NFL a 1 time pass or should they use the 1st examples as examples to other teams. Pats knew what they were doing and the NFL had to hit the next team hard.

  9. The league office is really messing this up again. Let’s move on and see this for what it was, a gotcha George Brett Pine Tar Incident for the twitter age. I’m ready for football……

  10. Did Jacksonville mention these concerns to the league? It’d certainly be interesting if they did, only to be ignored. The later in the season the NFL suddenly decided to take a complaint like this seriously.

    This is getting good watching these two punch each other in the face. Time for more popcorn.

  11. Also, the dog at their homework and it was still hungry, right? So it goes and starts chewing on the balls…see?

  12. Evidence was also provided that Indianapolis ball boys, in a prior season, had been seen by Jacksonville personnel with ball needles hidden under their long sleeves,”

    No, other teams don’t do anything wrong.

    Hypocrites!

  13. The Patiots, in this statement, indict themselves. This does nothing for Brady’s case. It shows intent. They saw what other team’s ballboys may have done done, and used it to minimized the act. When they saw that the NFL was going to hit them harder (perhaps due to their repeat offender status as cheaters), they obfuscated. The suspension can’t be overturned, as it’s directly tied to the obfuscation (refusal to cooperate with the investigation). Brady cooked himself when he refused to turn over specific electronic communication pertaining to the investigation. When you refuse a drug test, it ends there.

  14. Now the Patriots are acting like an ex-gf or ex-wife that you caught cheating on you. When you tell her it’s over, she freaks out and starts throwing your clothes and furniture on the lawn, calling your mutual friends to scream about how horrible you are and all the while she is thinking this will make you take her back. Sorry, but take your dirty trophies, cheating qb, murdering te and practice film thiefs and hit the friggin road. It’s over. We don’t ever want to hear from you again.

    NFL Fans

  15. “Aaron Rogers has admitted he told the ballboys to overinflated balls. Guess he was not so independent at all.”

    The difference is Rodgers didn’t intentionally bypass inspection by leaking air out in a bathroom.

  16. The patriots are just looking silly now. I wish Goodell could make the punishment even worse for making a mockery of the situation. I’m beginning to lose even more respect for them.

  17. So now that Patriots official defense is…”they did it too”. They did it too doesnt exonerate you of wrong doing. In fact, it admits that you did it in the first place. The NFL can investigate other incidents separately. This is about you.

  18. Now I believe EVERY WORD of this story. Of course this has always gone on. Deflategate is a big to do about nothing. Nothing but jealousy and agendas.

  19. NFL maybe it wasn’t such a great idea to throw the kitchen sink at Tom Brady and the PATS. What you should of done was fine them the 25,000 that is on the books for this violation and then tighten up your rules on who can handle the balls after the refs validate them using just nfl personnel. Which frankly should of been in place for years already. Nobody gets pissed off and this never happens again. Now you’ve opened up Pandora’s box and the Genie ain’t going back in the bottle. FREE TOM BRADY!!!

  20. Patriots need to shore up that hole they’re digging for themselves. It’s about to collapse on them.

  21. Like a 5 year old caught with their hands in the cookie jar,
    “Hey im not the only one doing it, dont punish me!!!”

  22. Still unanswered is the question of the Colts under inflated balls and how Wells can praise Anderson when he couldn’t remember which gauge he used, how he lost track of the balls and why didn’t he test when he found them?

  23. Thats like someone getting arrested in Baltimore for stealing and looting and saying “Why am i getting arrested everyone else is doing it”. YOUR THE ONE THE GOT CAUGHT NO ONE ELSE.

    And the part where the pats said they called tom the deflator because he was trying to lose weight. I mean for real? You had plenty of time and THATS the best excuse you came up with?

  24. 🏆🏆Brady🏆🏆 says:

    Now look how stupid you all look!
    ================================
    The Deflator agrees haha. And my team has five with no *

  25. I’d say there are some teams that are feeling uncomfortable today about skeletons and closets. Looks like the Patriots will not go down without a fight. About time a team bowed it’s back against Goodell and the rest of the hacks at 345 Park Avenue. The abyss is beginning to stare back.

  26. Please stop with the Aaron Rogers stuff – they overinflate the balls before they give to the ref and the ref then takes air out – which is completely legal and in the rule book – so the balls are at the high end of the range. They do not inflate the balls after the refs have approved which is illegal. Very illegal.

  27. “Everyone else is doing it” is essentially (if not literally) admitting you are cheating!

    The Patriots clearly are hanging onto the hope that the fact they are being picked on is reason enough to reduce the penalties.

    And maybe it will. But by making that their focus – rather than innocence – their reputation is ruined now.

    The Patriots are cheaters. Maybe other teams are too. Maybe not. But your four time SB winning Patriots are two time (at least) cheaters.

  28. So, if all of you were so hot to believe new allegations by AJ Feeley yesterday, why can’t you believe th enew allegations today that…*gasp*…other teams could be cheating???

    Particularly interesting is that Jacksonville noted the potential violation, NOT the Patriots.

    I think Pandora’s Box is slowly creaking more widely open…

  29. Next time you’re stopped for speeding or any traffic violation, be sure and tell the officer that you were not the only one doing it. I’m sure they will just let you go after pointing out that simple fact. Then you can demand an apology for good measure.

  30. commenter says:
    May 14, 2015 1:46 PM

    “Aaron Rogers has admitted he told the ballboys to overinflated balls. Guess he was not so independent at all.”

    The difference is Rodgers didn’t intentionally bypass inspection by leaking air out in a bathroom.

    How do you know that? Have you talked to Rodgers? Of course not, just mindless speculation on your part.

  31. The prior report had to do with both teams “heating up balls” on a cold Minnesota day. So, based on the argument from the Deflators (Patriots) that the cold reduces psi…then wouldn’t the other instance where both teams heated balls be case where they were essentially maintaining the psi rules? It doesn’t help the Deflators to argue it both ways.

  32. But what the Pats fail to understand is that the punishment wasn’t for the deflated footballs, it was for their obstruction.

    Bill wasn’t impeached because of his activities with an intern. he was impeached because he lied about it.

  33. “Everyone does it” is a legit response because it’s relevant info. Doesn’t fit the haters’ agenda but the point is NE is being singled out for something that is pretty common.

  34. I bet the Patriots are right. I bet other teams, maybe even most teams doctor the balls. I also believe the deflation had little to do with winning as they seemed to do pretty well in the Super Bowl. But this has nothing to do with what everyone else is or is not doing. The Patriots were caught doing it. When I get a speeding ticket me telling the officer everyone else was speeding does not get me out of it. The coverup is worse than the crime. Repeat offenders get treated harsher. If Tom Brady just said yeah I like my footballs less inflated and left it at that, this is probably a fine and nothing more. But to lie and then create bigger lies to attempt to explain away previous lies, they need to be set a horrible example of to show what happens to liars and cheaters.

  35. If your wife catches you cheating is a legitimate excuse that your neighbor does it. If the cops pull you over for speeding is it ok if you tell him the guy in front of you did it too. The Patriots cheated and now they are trying to take down whoever they can but the fact is they cheated, got caught and they cant man up and take responsibility. But most arrogant people end up as little sniveling fools when they get caught.

  36. I don’t the Pats are necessarily saying they know the Colts did this. But if they know about Jacksonville’s allegations, so too, one presumes, did the league. Why ignore one case and declare world war III in the other. Its further evidence of bias.

  37. How I’m reading this is that the Patriots believe it was a sting operation, that the Colts brought the idea of under-inflated balls to the NFL’s attention, then sabotaged the Patriots balls.

    I’m not saying I believe it, but I think that’s their point, not that other people doing it makes it ok

  38. “Aaron Rogers has admitted he told the ballboys to overinflated balls. Guess he was not so independent at all.”

    But Aaron Rodgers was not implicated in a conspiracy to alter the pressure in footballs after the referees inspected them and approved they were within the boundaries of legal according to the NFL rulebook.

    Tom Brady has been implicated in such a conspiracy.

    As for Wells’ ‘independence’, I presume the scope of his investigation was determining the facts as they related to the Patriots. So what the happy hell does Aaron Rodgers have to do with it?

  39. drunkraider says:
    May 14, 2015 1:49 PM
    patriot tears taste so good

    ————————-

    I think those are tears of joy still leftover from their postseason run (yes I know as a raider fan you’re not familiar)….

    -colts fan

  40. Vikes and Panthers were playing one another when warming up balls on the sideline. Nobody had an advantage. Lol

  41. This sure makes the whole league look ridiculous. Patriots were caught. Suck it up and deal with it. Let Jimmy G play the first 4, Brady play the last 12. Show them all how it’s done in the playoffs. They only have to win the AFC East, quite possibly the easiest division in Football.

    Crying about it, making websites to counter the report, and all the nonsense has to stop. Man up. Take the licking, keep on ticking.

  42. “We didn’t do it
    We didn’t do it
    We didn’t do it
    We didn’t do it

    Everyone else did it too!!!”

    Losing so much respect for Kraft today. Always previously viewed his as a somewhat reasonable guy whose coach just so happened to cut the occasional corner (and/or blatantly cheat).

  43. Maybe the Pats should simply through a massive temper tantrum. It’s likely more constructive than the tactics they’re trying to use.

  44. It is truly amazing to see Patriots fans reference Aaron Rodgers over and over while they try to deflect Brady and his cheating.

    Rodgers said they test the upper limits of inflation BEFORE inspection because the refs always let a bit of air out during the testing process. By having them slightly over, it ends up at the top range.

    Meanwhile…Brady has the balls tested and then AFTER inspection, he has his cronies deflate them.

    I cannot understand why Patriots fans can’t get the difference through their thick skulls.

  45. “How do you know that? Have you talked to Rodgers? Of course not, just mindless speculation on your part.”

    Rodgers has never been caught trying to manipulate the balls after inspection. The Patriots, on the other hand, have. To assume Rodgers has manipulated balls after inspection without ever being caught truly is mindless speculation.

  46. At what point does the Patriots mudslinging become “conduct detrimental to the league”?

  47. reesesteel23 says: May 14, 2015 1:55 PM

    Vikes and Panthers were playing one another when warming up balls on the sideline. Nobody had an advantage. Lol

    ____________________________________

    That shouldn’t be what this is about, it’s about breaking the rules. Sports Science and other entities have debunked the idea that deflated balls at that PSI give a competitive advantage to the Pats. When this info is relayed, haters say “well they broke the rules anyway.” Ok, so because BOTH the Vikings and Panthers broke the rule, it makes it fine????

  48. The relevance is this: did Jacksonville make such a complaint to the League? And if so, what did the league do about it? Any investigation? Demand for text messages? 100 days and 5 million? If not, why not?

  49. We did it, because team ‘X’ did something similar. If team X had been investigated, and it was shown that there was no direction for the ball boys to deflate balls after the referees validated the balls… Then you, The Patriots, have just legally shot yourself in the head.

  50. After what seems like 100’s of stories on this subject, has anyone thought about if deflating the footballs just a little bit actually is why the Patriots won games?

    I mean, let’s think about that for a minute. Everyone is just going overboard about a lot of this I think. I don’t know for sure, but I compare it to a baseball player preferring a 27oz bat over a 29oz bat. A bowler who prefers a lighter ball to a heavier ball. Do either of those give you an unfair advantage over the opponent? No, it is just what you prefer to do the same job at the end of the day.

    Now I understand this is much more than just the footballs. It’s about specific rules of football inflation. So yes, they definitely broke the rules. And yes, Brady and the Patriots not cooperating is not good. I understand all of that, but cheat is a different word altogether. I just don’t see how the ball being a bit softer won the Patriots a Super Bowl. I find that very hard to believe.

    Am I way off base here?

  51. t is truly amazing to see Patriots fans reference Aaron Rodgers over and over while they try to deflect Brady and his cheating.

    Rodgers said they test the upper limits of inflation BEFORE inspection because the refs always let a bit of air out during the testing process. By having them slightly over, it ends up at the top range.

    Meanwhile…Brady has the balls tested and then AFTER inspection, he has his cronies deflate them.

    I cannot understand why Patriots fans can’t get the difference through their thick skulls.
    ___________________________________

    I agree with you in part, but the biggest issue is that the NFL has no clear protocol for checking PSI, with many officials stating that balls are often given a squeeze test. Rodgers submitting balls he knows are illegal/overinflated lead to the likely possibility that the Packers played many games with illegal footballs because officials often don’t do their jobs.

  52. Honestly even if the Pats did do it, so what? Everybody’s acting like deflating a ball is such a massive advantage. ESPN Sports Science did a special on this when the story first broke: They explained that a ball inflated 2 PSI below the minimum provides a player with a 1.5% grip boost. That’s hardly anything, it also came out that their balls weren’t under by 2 PSI and much closer to “a few ticks” under the limit. So at worst say it was .5 PSI under, that’s a 0.375% grip boost, that so ridiculously insignificant and is more about Brady feeling comfortable with the ball than actually trying to gain an advantage.

  53. JTBsteeler: I wouldn’t count on it. They have been suspended, not fired. And this report goes some way to defend them.

    I assume you root for the Steelers and their r—ist QB. It’s amazing how hypocritical NFL fans can be.

  54. After reading through the Wells report and the rebuttal, anyone who still thinks they can say with any level of certainty that anything happened (either way) is just full of it. The investigation had one conclusion: It’s inconclusive.

  55. I don’t think the argument being presented here is “everyone else is doing it too”, but rather is asking why the Pats are being hammered based on very thin, subjective evidence while other teams have only been warned in the past.

    Also, who knows if the allegations re: the Colts are true, but the reasoning behind it is that so many want to label the Pats as cheaters while other teams have done similar things without being investigated.

  56. The prior report had to do with both teams “heating up balls” on a cold Minnesota day. So, based on the argument from the Deflators (Patriots) that the cold reduces psi…then wouldn’t the other instance where both teams heated balls be case where they were essentially maintaining the psi rules? It doesn’t help the Deflators to argue it both ways.
    ===
    No one ever said that the NFL rulebook wasn’t dumb and self-contradictory.

  57. I am so tired of the Aaron Rodgers defense justification. First off he doesn’t have the equipment manager inflate the balls in a bathroom AFTER they have been inspected. Second, he never lied about it.

  58. “The Patriots are, understandably, upset that they were given such a harsh punishment while the Vikings and Panthers got away with no punishment at all.”

    _______________

    And I’m sure the Saints are upset that Sean Payton got suspended for an entire season because “ignorance is not an excuse” while Belichick got no punishment whatsoever.

    This rebuttal from the Patriots today pushed a lot of people from on the fence and thinking they didn’t cheat to being convinced that they in fact did cheat.

    Just admit you cheated, accept your punishment, and work to try to fix NFL’s joke of a punishment system that seems to have no understanding of the word consistency.

  59. A few days ago, “more likely than not” failed to meet burden of proof.
    But now, “may have” is unassailable guilt for another team.

    C’mon Pats* fans… be better than this.

  60. When is the investigation switching to the Jets? Also, if the Pats were hammered extra hard because this was perceived as a “repeat incident”, why were the Jets let off so easy in their tampering that let to the signing of Revis? They were at the MINIMUM caught and penalized for the “Alosi Wall”, not to mention other tampering, and being caught taping the Pats in 2006.

  61. azarkhan says:

    May 14, 2015 1:43 PM

    Only 4 of the Colts footballs were tested and 3 were under the limit. Why weren’t the other eight tested? Ask the NFL.
    ————————————
    The NFL “ran out of time” how convenient that we’re denied very useful comparative data.

    By the NFL’s logic the Patriots’ fatboy ball attendent Jim McNally snuck into a bathroom, deflated every single Patriot ball and came back out in 1:40.

    Yet they “ran out of time” to finish measuring the Colts balls? How convenient.

  62. Well everybody just stop! This is honestly getting annoying with about everybody just arguing and this whole thing is getting ridiculous. Every fricking team in the NFL possibly cheats so people can’t say they are the only ones. Before anybody lashes out on me I want to ask why the NFL only test 3 or 4 of the Colts balls and not the rest? Isn’t anybody finding that a little strange? It remotely possible what Pats said about other teams tampering the balls are true or it it is remotely possible that it isn’t. And I hate how people act like this is the worst thing in the world when people in the league have done much worst than this so stop acting like they murdered somebody or something. Besides the Refs should’ve never taking their eyes off the balls and nobody can really say Brady told him to till prove is actually shown not “More Probable than not”. I’m a Pats fan but I’m not like most of them saying Brady didn’t cheat or he hasn’t done nothing wrong, but that isn’t true, everybody in any sport possibly do things to get an advantage. Until we find out wether Brady told those two to deflate balls or not, I rather just wait for the NFL tells us and people don’t jump to conclusion before finding out what actually happened. That is all I got to say

  63. In the end, it doesn’t matter whether any other team does it or not. By using that defense, the Pats stipulate that they cheated and just want to have the sentence reduced because “everyone else does, too”. But, since they’ve stipulated that they cheated, they lose the appeal.

    Case closed.

    Maybe you should have hired Wells to handle your defense…

  64. This whole thing is based on paper thin evidence and people can’t say it happen or not and they can’t verify that some other teams don’t possibly do this either. Just saying

  65. Soooo this went from “we are 100% innocent!” to “well well well, other ppl do it too!” and unfortunately, if your winning championships while cheating- its a much bigger scandal then those who miss the playoffs. A-Rod got a bigger punishment than others for steroid use. Were red sox fans cool with that? Dont by hypocrits. AND you basically are making a mockery of the NFL and Well’s with your constant denying and deflecting.

  66. commenter says:
    May 14, 2015 2:00 PM
    “How do you know that? Have you talked to Rodgers? Of course not, just mindless speculation on your part.”

    Rodgers has never been caught trying to manipulate the balls after inspection. The Patriots, on the other hand, have. To assume Rodgers has manipulated balls after inspection without ever being caught truly is mindless speculation.

    ———————-
    Actually, Brady nor anyone else have actually been caught doing such a thing either. That is why this entire thing is so ridiculous. Clearly Goodell is trying to save face and he picked the wrong guy to expect to back down. Let’s see what happens when a judge demands all electronic communications from Wells, Goodell and company….. This is going to be good.

  67. Turns out the Colts, on the sideline, also stuck a gauge in the ball they intercepted in the AFC championship game, which is a violation of the rules (and also taints the evidence from that ball, which, nevertheless, was measured at 11.4, which was consistent with the cold, wet conditions!)

    The team report actually has a lot in it that is hard to explain away.

  68. Just like the arrogant Pats….Accuse someone ELSE of doing something that you were doing and got caught doing.
    The best defense is a good offense?

    The Patriot Way…Lie Cheat Deny and Accuse

  69. Patriots lies, lies, lies cannot hide from these FACTS:

    Pats fumbling data:
    2000-2006: one fumble every 42 touches
    2007-2014: one fumble every 74 touches

    So the 2000-06 teams that won 3 SBs were a routinely AVERAGE fumbling team, despite ol’ coach Belicheat coaching them up with “muddy, wet” balls in practice as he quickly and strangely explained when Deflategate first broke in January. During the period Jim McNally was their locker room attendant (AKA “the deflator”), 2007-2014, the Pats fumbling rate drops to an amazingly low rate. The statistical chance of that happening was shown to be 1 in 5,842!

    Pats have been cheating for years. And now they’ve been caught. Again.

  70. The Patiots, in this statement, indict themselves. This does nothing for Brady’s case. It shows intent. They saw what other team’s ballboys may have done done, and used it to minimized the act.
    ____

    No, they really don’t. If anything, this supports their claim that the Colts might have done the tampering, if any tampering actually took place.

  71. Reading all this makes me laugh. Sounds like a bunch of pat haters chirping. So the fact that others did does not make it legal for the Pats to do it too(if they did it), but if you are going to punish, punish all equally. calling the Pats “Narks”, really, so if other teams (losers) do it they are not Narks, but when the Pats (winners) do it, they are Narks.The fact that most don’t analyze the lack of evidance, is laughable. If they are guilty prove it. I will accept it. Don’t put a bunch of BS in a report and call it evidance. the fact that some think that by responding the Pats are admitting guilty is nuts. So if you are accused of wrong doing, you’ll just sit back a accept the punishment(even if you ar not guilty), Hahahahahhaha. I have been told and tell others, if you are guilty, fight. If you are not guilty, fight harder. It is harder to prove your innocence, especially when it comes to public perception. Especially when everyone hates you for being a WINNER.

  72. Bob Kraft is a joke. He said nothing in that uncapped year when the skins and cowboys were penalized for a rule that wasn’t even in place now he’s crying foul! He left Snyder and Jerry out in the cold. Don’t cry now! No respect for this man.

  73. The difference is people KNOW the Colts don’t cheat. Their 5 championships are legitimate. This of course from a team who hasn’t won a single championship legitimately. Why don’t they win one without cheating and then maybe they could be believable? Until then, they are just Cleveland of the East Coast in fans eyes.

  74. The Patriots are looking more and more like idiots by the moment! Lol… Keep sticking a microphone in front of their pie holes.. (Boston cream pie holes that is) and see what other “shtuff” comes out. They can’t honestly think all this stuff they are spewing today anyone is going to believe…. Right?! “The ball boys nickname was the deflator because he was fat and sat on a ball and it deflated”…

  75. this whole thing is so ridiculous. i blame the colts for getting whooped and crying about it. team couldnt even tackle or score points. now this is turning the sport into a joke.

    appalled

  76. maybe because it happened before halftime where as you had been tampering with footballs for months!

  77. Since people seem to know what happen would you haters love to show us evidence that we DON’T know about yet. It is always innocence till proving guilty and that is the case with Brady and the Patriots. I ain’t gonna day you guys are jealous ot anything of the pats or you you just hate him, don’t put a load of BS in a report saying they did something when most of you are jumping to a conclusion. If it was you or me and one of us is accused of being guilty what do you do? You would fight it, like the Pats are fighting it right now you fight until you are proving guilty. And if you know your innocence, you keep fighting and fighting and fighting harder and harder. It is especially hard depending on how the public, us, view that person from a public perspective. Don’t jump to conclusions when there hasn’t been one yet

  78. Loving the scorched earth take no prisoners approach by Patriots. Somewhere Bill B is saying to Bob Kraft welcome to my world. FREE TOM BRADY!!!!

  79. The Patriots were accused of, and essentialy found guilty of tampering with/deflating game balls. With that being said, I am going to frame these questions using the “established concept” that the Patriots are guilty of what they have been accused of.

    So my question is related to the Patriots/Jets game where the officials inflated the footballs to 16.0 PSI. First, since no one seems to want to dig out the information, the referree for the game was Bill Leavy. Not sure if he is an idiot, hates the Pats, or maybe was instructed by the league office…?

    Aside from the obvious questions of: Why did he inflate the balls to a number that was radically over the range of legal footballs as specificed by the rules. Why did this disadvantage happen against the Jets (a team that should have been crushed by the Patriots but nearly won, on top of the fact that the league employees that are behind all of these shenanigans all came from the Jets front office…)? Etc

    To my point, as I previously mentioned, the argument is that the Patriots are ball deflators. How is it even remotely logical, that you would believe the Patriots routinely removed .5 psi from their 12.5 psi footballs, to include the AFCCG game, but accept that these same deflating Patriots didnt let 4.5 psi out of the footballs that the officials over inflated on purpose??? Does that make any sense??? A team that (as most of you have determined) always always always always deflates the balls to Brady’s preference, decided that the one time all year that they werent going to deflate the balls was when the PSI was through the roof??? That is illogical at best. And base don the report, it seems pretty obvious Brady was furious with the ball boy/equipment guy that the footballs were in that condition. Did he tell them to let air out of the balls on the sideline? No. He accepted them as they were, and played with them as they were, but was angry with the ball boys for letting it happen. Does that at all jive with the wells report? Or the narrative that Brady is a cheater? If the Patriots ball boys at Brady’s request would deflate the footballs, why was this the one game that Brady didnt make the request, and the ball boys didnt do it for him on their own???

  80. We’re talking about, what? .5 psi?

    ESPN did about 25 demonstrations with football players squeezing balls with 2 psi difference. Still waiting on their revised on air stunt trying to feel the difference in .5 psi.

    We’re literally talking about something that had 0 effect on anything.

  81. The everybody is doing defense didn’t work for the Saints, Falcons or any other team. The patriots still got a slap on the wrist compared to everyone else. I hope more comes out and they get fined more and Brady and BB get suspended for more

  82. lol. This just keeps getting better and better. I bet this came from Belicheats mouth. Lies on top of lies. The pats are about to fall through the hole their digging.

  83. These guys really use the schoolyard mentality and I bet they’d whip out “I know you are but what am I” type comebacks if you directly called them something.

    I’m curious how you proclaim innocence yet then bring up others messing with things which to any sane person indicates you are saying you do indeed do what you’re being accused of but others do it so it’s not a big deal.

    I’m also curious why the Colts would deflate footballs when based on the report, Luck likes his balls inflated at the middle to higher end so why would they deflate them rather than start at a lower figure? I suppose at the time they didn’t know Luck likes them there so when the report came out showing this evidence it made whoever said that Colts needle report look like a complete fool…pretty much like everyone involved in this case.

    I don’t even care if they were cheating since it’s a trivial way to try and cheat. It’s the excuses they keep saying that is the annoying part of it all instead of just saying they did it.

  84. bonesawisready says:
    May 14, 2015 2:09 PM

    This rebuttal from the Patriots today pushed a lot of people from on the fence and thinking they didn’t cheat to being convinced that they in fact did cheat.

    Just admit you cheated, accept your punishment, and work to try to fix NFL’s joke of a punishment system that seems to have no understanding of the word consistency.
    ________

    Getting upset with someone defending themselves from a one-sided and biased report by presenting information that was intentionally left out, ignored or just flat out wrong doesn’t make them stupid. It makes you stupid.

  85. I saw a person bringing up what Aaron Rodgers said and that is a good example of how people can just take what someone says and spin it. Rodgers allegedly said he likes the ball at the high end and has tried to get balls through the official check that are over 13.5 yet it doesn’t work. Nowhere does that translate to “I like my footballs above 13.5 so we pump them up on the sideline during games.”

  86. purpleguy says:
    May 14, 2015 1:43 PM
    The Pats may have been hammered too hard, but the “all my friends get to stay out past midnight so I should too” excuse hasn’t really been effective since, well, since there have been moms.

    ————————

    Guys, all they are asking is for the other teams to be suspended and have picks taken away. It’s a level playing field or it isn’t. You can’t tilt it both ways.

  87. If other teams are doing it, those getting caught are saying yes we are guilty and admitting it.

    Pats are in typical denial. How fitting, nothing new there. How about a scotched earth policy and make their iceberg of espionage melt faster.

    Someone get Matt Walsh on the phone again…he must need some new ‘kicks’

  88. Just admit you cheated and let it be done.

    All other fanbases despise NE because they cheat 24/7

    When is the NFL gonna hire BB and Ernie Adams to be their chief espionage investigators.

    That would be great, takes one to know one

  89. The reason the Patriots mention the other acts of rules violations is the penalties assessed with the different incidents and how the penalties do not line up.

    This is actually relevant to the discussion much to the chagrin to the haters.

    This is like a traffic judge fining one driver for speeding at $200 and then fining another driver $10,000, loss of vehicle, and suspending his license because the second driver had the audacity to run a red light 8 years ago, and second driver also happens to be a friend of the judge and the judge doesn’t want to appear to play favorites.

  90. radrntn says: May 14, 2015 2:33 PM

    Patriots ought to change their names to the New England Idoits.

    __________________________________

    I hope this was meant to be ironic, but seeing as your a Raiders fan, I somehow doubt it was.

  91. “You mess with the bull and you get the horns.”

    How you Indy fans doing now? The Jags caught Indy ball boys with needles under their long sleeved shirts in a prior season. Oh the irony! (I’m not even going to ask what year that was out of respect for the previous QB.. and I’m not refering to Painter)

    I think I’m now going to follow Irsay’s twitter account just to see this meltdown.

  92. According to the Pats rebuttal website, the mere act of inserting a needle into a football is a clear violation of the tampering rule. That’s what the Colts did on the sideline to instigate half time measurements. Doesn’t matter if they let air out or not and that ball’s PSI was not in the Wells report.

  93. Getting upset with someone defending themselves from a one-sided and biased report by presenting information that was intentionally left out, ignored or just flat out wrong doesn’t make them stupid. It makes you stupid.

    __________________________________

    The Patriots put out a rebuttal that fell flat on its face with excuses like the deflator is just fat and that makes me stupid, nice logic there buddy. BTW, petty insults are the ammunition of those who have no real information to support their side of a discussion.

  94. It goes to the integrity of the league’s investigation. If the league has information that multiple teams are doing something but only investigates one of them over and over and hands out crazy penalties with no basis in fact, it shows bias and that the rules are not evenly applied. Funny how the same people wailing about the integrity of he game refuse to understand this. The Patriots just lost a no 1 pick for being suspected of doing what the Vikings and Jaguars were CAUGHT doing.

  95. Patriots way, deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect deflect lie deflect deflect lie lie deflect deflect lie deflect deflect lie lie lie lie lie lie deflect deflect call butt buddies at ESPN cry deflect lie deflect call press conference to say everyone does it deflect deflect lie lie Brady starts tearing up BB takes mic and states were on to um um never mind deflect lie lie lie lie lie lie lie deflect lie about lying deflect deflect lie but the Colts did it too deflect deflect deflect lie lie but but were the NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS

  96. Let’s throw 20,000 words on the wall and see what sticks.

    My employer would fire me if I didn’t cooperate with an investigation. Due to employment-at-will, most of us can get put in the unemployment line for far less evidence than that needed at a civil or criminal trial. Regardless of the results, I’m sold on any level of discipline purely for the lack of cooperation as it’s going to be lighter than what most of us would get.

    The league office gets no love from me either. I’m not sure why you would let so much of this go public and now the Patriots are fighting back publicly. The two sides should have handled it confidentially up to the point that they reached an agreement independently or through arbitration/mediation/court. I’m a Pacers fan and I never thought I’d say this after the palace, but NBA players and management are starting to look a lot more professional than the NFL.

  97. I like how everyone is sooooo biased and already has their mind made up, so they just pick and choose what into to use to support their argument. This wasn’t some last ditch “hey they do it too!” Attempt to lessen their penalty, this occured DURING the investigation. It was clearly more of a “why are we the only ones being investigated” situation.

    Do I believe the pats have probably tried using illegal balls? Absolutely. But like Rodgers said, its up to the ref to approve/deny. Do I think the ball boy snuck into a closet to let out air after inspection? Absolutely not. That is just ridiculous.

    Also, why was this the one time the ref “lost track of the balls”. Thats just way too convenient for the NFL. If it was such a big deal that the balls were out of the refs sight for 5 min, how have the pats managed to sneak away and deflate balls for 8 years supposedly? Riddle me that

    All of this nonsense over something thats not even advantageous. Brady can dink and dunk with his underinflated balls while Rodgers throws 80 yrd bombs with his overinflated ball. Its just a preference

  98. The Pats are going to make everyone wish no one ever heard of a deflated football.

    As per Spygate, I’m cool with it because I knew it was just paranoia on the part of Belichick. Belichick came of age as a defensive coordinator during the pre-Goodell administrations when teams did everything to gain advantage and when the league did not care to publicize let alone enforce the rules. It was a free for all. And I’m sure even after that memo went out, Belichick was thinking that other teams were still doing it and wouldn’t get called on it. So he felt compelled to do it to keep the playing field level.

  99. I pray to dear God that Brady is indeed innocent of wrong doing in this drama.

    Because, if not, Kraft will be forced to shoot him.

  100. What I don’t get is the defenders saying “the deflated balls provide no advantage.”

    Ask yourself a question, if deflating the balls truly has no impact on the game, why would Tom Brady do it? Why would he employ low-level employees to do it? Why would he bribe said employees to keep doing it? Why would he lie about it? Why wouldn’t he turn over cell phone records related to the deflating?

    Tom Brady holding a VCR and standing outside of a pawn shop with a broken window: “I didn’t steal this, Mr. Policeman. I swear!”
    2 Hours later:
    “Yeah I did, but my friend did it last week so I thought it would be okay.”
    Policeman: “Why a vcr? Do you not own a DVD player? Blu Ray?”
    Brady: “Of course I do, I have a home theater in my house, I could afford to have celebrities come over and completey reenact the movies if I wanted to!”
    Policeman: “So why a VCR?”
    Brady: “That’s a great question since I don’t even own any video tapes anyways. I’ll have my lawyers get back to you with a viable excuse in a few days.”

  101. florioisworsthuman says:
    May 14, 2015 2:56 PM
    We’re talking about, what? .5 psi?

    ESPN did about 25 demonstrations with football players squeezing balls with 2 psi difference. Still waiting on their revised on air stunt trying to feel the difference in .5 psi.

    We’re literally talking about something that had 0 effect on anything.

    ———————-
    None of this matters. Fans from other teams are sick and tired of Brady and the Patriots beating their teams with impunity year after year. They see this as a means to get back at the Pats through the legal system because their teams are too incompetent to do it on the football field. Whether or not Brady serves out his 4 game suspension or not remains to be seen. But bear in mind that unless you are a fan of the Ravens, Seahawks, Packers, or a few other “decent” teams, Brady and the Pats will be along soon to crush your team and your spirits because frankly….your team is just not that good…..and no amount of legal shenanigans will change that.

  102. How quickly did Bob Kraft go from “I didn’t know anything about it” to “We didn’t do it” to “We didn’t do it but other teams did”? Five days? He didn’t know what his own team was doing but he knows what everyone else did?

  103. Find facts that we did it not hypothesis goodels witch hunt vs. patriots is gonna come back to haunt him. Wells gave no facts whatsoever lmao so yall can take ur corny comments and still be mad patriots are the champs. Go tell ur teams to get some rings.

  104. Yeah ok. So they are going with the “hey everyone is doing it” defense. Nice.

    And to think I used to respect the Patriots organization. Shame on me.

  105. If any other teams’ fumbles dropped by almost 50% in one off season without changing coaches or QB…

    and that off season happened to be when they were in charge of their own balls…

    and they were caught with deflated balls…

    Yes, they cheated also.

  106. dougchillin says:
    May 14, 2015 1:44 PM
    Pats fans – whether or not you agree with the punishment there is no way you can agree with how the pats are acting
    —-
    actually on the pats message boards the fans who have read the wells report then the patriots site on the wells report want the team to burn the nfl to the ground.. anti-trust exemption and all, and it kind of looks like they may do it.

    Never mind brady.. how do you clear the patriots themselves in wells’s report then turn around and take a 1st, 4th and one million, that makes less then no sense at all unless certain people in new york are trying to settle grudges.

  107. bleedsoe9mm says:
    May 14, 2015 1:53 PM

    can’t wait for brady or the pats lawyers get wells in a court room where he’s forced to tell the truth .
    —————————–
    Sorry, this is never going past the league. The last thing the patriots want is brady, jablonski, or “the deflator” testifying under oath. Brady wont let wells see his cell? He will if its under threat of contempt. No one is getting sued in a federal court.

  108. “azarkhan says:
    May 14, 2015 1:43 PM
    Only 4 of the Colts footballs were tested and 3 were under the limit. Why weren’t the other eight tested? Ask the NFL.”

    Actually all four were between 12.5 and 13.5 on at least on gauge and the other 8 weren’t tested because the refs ran out of time during half time to test them. READ THE REPORT!

  109. Uh oh….and so it begins. Bill is spilling his black book to the world, as expected.

    You ain’t seen nothing yet. This is just the start. Just wait till Bill lights another firecracker and we finally hear what was on those destroyed spygate tapes and who else was video taping defensive signals.

    Be careful what you wish for….

  110. The writer of this article gave it the title. The attorney for the patriots was just sending an email to Wells about how much they did to cooperate. Would it not be important for the investigators to know that footballs are “tampered with” by other teams? But the pats are not saying “yes we deflated the footballs but so does everyone else.” Get a grip, people.

  111. At this point it doesn’t matter what happens, the Patriots and Tom Brady will forever be branded as cheaters. If Brady fights this and wins because there is absolutely no proof of wrongdoing, people will still insist that he’s a cheater. If Roger Goodell has a change of heart, stands on a podium and apologizes to the New England Patriots and Tom Brady for being wrongly accused and assures the world that they are innocent, (won’t happen, I know), people will still insist that they cheated. If it goes to court and Jastremski and McNally testify under oath that they were not deflating footballs for Tom Brady, they will still be called cheaters. If Brady passes a lie detector test done by the best polygraph expert in the world, people would still insist he cheated. There is no way to shut this down. I hope that the people in the Colts organization who got this whole mess started feel good about themselves. They managed to put a big black mark on arguably the best quarterback and the greatest dynasty ever. All over a little bit of air in a football. As for Roger Goodell, way to take a less than minor infraction that even the refs didn’t care about and turn it into the biggest story of the season. The man is not worthy to call himself the commissioner of the NFL.

  112. Read up on the Miami superbowl Peyton won. How he praises the Colts equipment guy (Sean Sullivan) for getting the balls easier to grip because he had a thumb injury.

    Why do you think Sean Sullivan knew that deflating a football is done in NFL games? Maybe because he did it countless times before for a noodle armed Manning!

  113. Wow. Way to miss the point everyone.

    The point that raises is that the NFL was acting prejudicially against one team.

    They have emails from other teams sent to the NFL including accusations that ..

    The Colts and Jaguars were deflating or inflating footballs, and hard evidence that the Panthers and Vikings heated footballs, which is on the same level of offense in the manual.

    The league didn’t run a d a m n sting about those, or even inquire about them.

    What that does is gives context, which is going to be important the lawsuit, especially in light of the fact that the NFL DIDN’T catch New England cheating, said so themselves, and then penalized them anyway.

  114. I don’t think the statements were meant to pass blame and diminish what the Pats are being accused of. I think they published this to blast the NFL for not taking the “Integrity” of the game seriously.

    Remember this is what Goodell has vowed to protect. If this was reported to the league and they took no action, then how exactly is he protecting what he thinks is most important as fair competitive play. This dumb scandal will eventual bring him down.

  115. The pattys need to stop worrying about other teams and start thinking about their QB situation. How old is their QB?

    You mean the first-ballot Hall of Fame QB who just won the most recent Super Bowl and MVP? That one?

    What everyone doesn’t realize is the Patriots don’t worry about what nitwit basement-dwelling sore loser fans of other teams think even if they yell insults until their throats hurt. You’re merely background noise to the champions of the NFL as they prepare to defend another title.

    #bestteamofthe21stcentury

  116. Still waiting for the explanation about fumbling.

    How did the Pats’ fumbling drop from 1 every 44 plays 2003-2006 (pre rule change), to 1 every 74.5 plays (2007 – 2014 (post rule change)?

    Fumbles dropped by almost half in one off season.

    And before you embarrass yourself and say it was due to becoming a passing team, your passes per game increased by 3.5 for the years 2007-2014 vs 2003-2006.

    Less than one extra pass per quarter.

    What’s the logical answer?

    It’s called deflated balls.

    It’s called another case of Pats cheating.

  117. Did Deflated Footballs Really Give the Patriots a Fumble Advantage?
    By Mike Tanier, NFL National Lead Writer
    May 14, 2015
    ———————————————————————————-
    The issue is that the Pats are consistently at the top in fumble categories.
    Yes, other teams, have been better but it’s never been the same teams that grab the top spot.

    What does it all mean? No idea,except the odds of the Pats lack of fumbling as a trend is like winning the Mega Millions twice in a year.

  118. Ahh, the classic point the finger trick! I believe the last time I used that trick was when I was 10. Mommy, Mommy It wasn’t just me who ate all the candy… Brian had some too! So did Marie!! So If I’m getting punished, so should they!!

    What do you mean Mom?… Yeah, that’s true… I was the only one caught red-handed… I guess I will just take my punishment and keep my mouth shut.

    See Tom Brady… Even at 10 years old I knew when I was done in. I knew better than to talk back… It was just not in my best interests.

    So take your punishment… keep your mouth shut and quit blaming the world for your mistake! You did it, You knew what you were doing was wrong… this is not the first time either… you were caught, end of story.

  119. commenter says:
    May 14, 2015 1:46 PM

    “Aaron Rogers has admitted he told the ballboys to overinflated balls. Guess he was not so independent at all.”

    The difference is Rodgers didn’t intentionally bypass inspection by leaking air out in a bathroom.

    OMG! Rogers said he purposely over inflates trying to sneak them by the refs. That’s cheating too! For the love of god at least be consistent. Is proper psi a rule or not? Is intentionally breaking that rule cheating? Apparently cheating only occurs when you say it is.

  120. Did you order the code red Thomas Brady. Your gawd darn right I did for years. You want the truth you got the truth. Hall of fame to hall of shame. We all know why u did it tom shady and all u can do was lie about it because you were into dee but now your tainted career must pay a price and the world will judge u for who u are. A liar and cheater. May the voters have mercy on your cheating soul.

  121. “But they did it too” is NEVER a legitimate excuse. The Patriots could have saved face on this by just saying “ok, listen, Brady prefers the balls a little less deflated, we got overagressive and let too much air out. We accept responsibility and the punishment.” This would have made about 5 minutes of news on the NFL network and most people would have respect for them. But no. They are pulling the lamest excuses I’ve ever seen out of a magic hat to see what will stick. Frankly they should be ashamed of themselves and I think Robert Kraft should face suspension for the obvious bs he’s shoveling right now. The excuses hurt The Shield more than the actual ball scandal does.

  122. Well, who’da thunk it? Patriots fans were right all along. A hated rivals bitter tears are one of the best things in life, especially if you have no life and live vicariously through watching grown men play a game. Even the greatest game in all the world. See ya in the funny papers! Have fun stormin the castle!!

  123. If “the deflator” was just overweight, and he really did only take the game balls into the bathroom to relieve himself in a urinal that didn’t exist, and the ideal gas law explains the deflated balls, then why was he indefinitely suspended? For being fat?

    Nice logic Patriots…keep digging that hole.

  124. Kraft, Brady and the Pats learned from the best…the Clintons. ignore, ignore, deny, deny, then accuse.

  125. At the point the Wells team began their investigation, the Pats’ team’s objective was to throw as much garbage into their attempts in an effort to throw it off track. Wells mentions this casually in the report (“they contacted us many times to offer theories or ideas…”). I have no doubt one of those attempts included blaming other teams. Trying to make a virtue out of that now is even more shameful than the original attempt.

  126. I swear…reading some of these comments from Patriot fans is just absurd. After reading what New England is saying in its rebuttal to the Wells Report, we can gain a clearer understanding where these asinine comments originate. Deflecting blame once more while pointing out other teams is as second grade as it comes…guess we shouldn’t expect much better from this organization. Crap really does run downhill, so get on your boots ColtsNation…it’s getting deep

  127. PSA:

    BB Catches Brady with an under inflated football under his bed. And asks him to explain himself.

    Brady: But everyone in the league does it!

    BB further chastises Brady.

    Brady bust out: But I learned it from you BB. I learned it from you.

  128. If that is true, then the Patriots should have turned in the Colts. At best..the Patriots are saying great the Colts are doing it, so lets do it too.

    Give the Patriots another 2 weeks suspension for not turning in the Colts years ago.

  129. Hernandez should have used the “Patriot” defense!

    Other people were killling people, so I decided I can kill some people too.

  130. When these bogus charges are over turned, it will cause years of whining from Pats haters. It’s already started, honestly.

    Look, take your medicine and accept it. Your failed attempts at framing the Pats hasn’t worked.

    You’ll just have to hope your teams can beat the Pats the old fashioned way… by playing better football.

  131. Fact check. Aaron Rodgers had balls “overinflated” prior to the officials check. That is completely legal. There is a slight difference between that and changing them after the officials check. All you haters duhhhhhh.

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