Brady’s appeal calls Wells Report “dubious, contradictory”

AP

The hearing for Tom Brady to appeal his four-game Deflategate suspension is a week away, and the NFL Players Association has sent the NFL a letter decrying the Ted Wells Report that formed the basis of the Brady suspension.

In the letter, according to Sal Paolantonio of ESPN, the Wells Report is described as containing “dubious, contradictory and mischaracterized circumstantial evidence” which fails to prove Brady did anything wrong.

The NFLPA also says that even if the Wells Report had proven that Brady was involved in deflating footballs, a four-game suspension is excessive.

According to Paolantonio, Brady would not be satisfied with a reduced suspension: He wants to be fully exonerated and not suspended at all, feeling he has done nothing wrong. And Patriots owner Robert Kraft believes that’s exactly what will happen, that Brady will win his appeal and will play Week One.

252 responses to “Brady’s appeal calls Wells Report “dubious, contradictory”

  1. Go get ’em NFLPA, Goodell needs to rescind these ridiculous penalties based on a bad report. The evidence is clear: no deflation took place. PSI drop was natural and expected based on science.

  2. Guess what, they are both wrong!!!

    Cheaters need to pay for their sins. If he just admitted it in the first place we’d not be here and the Pats can get on to the next cheating scandal

  3. you tell’em tom “even though the report says i did it,since the report is dubious and contradictory then it in fact proves that i did not do it and even if i did do it 4games is way to much for doing something that i may or may not have done …so there!

  4. He should be “fully exonerated and not suspended at all” PLUS sue the league and Goodell for defamation of character.

    This whole this is out of hand and ridiculous.

  5. You haters are hilarious. How did Brady ever survive the Super Bowl and lead a record-setting 4th QTR comeback with footballs that weren’t deflated a whopping 1 PSI? lol

  6. patstipoftheiceberg says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:16 AM
    Guess what, they are both wrong!!!

    Cheaters need to pay for their sins. If he just admitted it in the first place we’d not be here and the Pats can get on to the next cheating scandal
    ———

    Admit what? The balls were never deflated, I think everyone is or should be aware of this by now. If not, nothing will and you’re the type of person who can’t be told two and two is four. In your mind it will always be three, just because.

  7. please allow me to speak on behalf of all patriot haters

    first off we don’t care about your science, just because the science proves no deflation means nothing to us.

    when a guy calls himself the deflator and we know that he deflates balls to the lower legal limit and gets yelled at when it isn’t done as per the text messages, we are more then glad to assume that he deflates balls below a legal limit and once we make that assumption we are fine adding another assumption that he deflates these balls after the refs check them, for us that is concrete evidence and there is no debate on our many assumptions to reach our conclusion

    we don’t care that the fumble theory was quickly debunked and we don’t care that the patriots fumbled less on the road. just because the facts say that road teams have no access to tamper with balls doesn’t mean we accept that. when jim McNally left the refs with the colts balls and patriots balls we chalk that up to a anomaly despite what the procedures are and the facts

    don’t tell us that the kraft foundation has nothing to do with BOB kraft, we know that The Kraft foods group and bob kraft are the same. personally we think Bob kraft isn’t the brightest guy for not receiving his revenue checks from kraft foods all these years. and to tell us there is no correlation is ridiculous, how would anyone know if they aren’t related, may be they are 153rd cousins dating back 300 years.

    so please don’t respond telling us about your facts as they are irrelevant since we have had detailed discussions with santa clause and he confirms that facts are secondary to made up allegations, assumptions and the will of the people

  8. Brady will not one minute of a suspension and will be under center Game#1 much to the chagrin of the Steeler fans who have lived on every Patriots deflategate post.

    I chuckle at the Steeler fans (ampatsownsmymind) who say they want him to play as the last time in November 2013 TB lit the Steelers up 55-31

  9. Turn over your cell phone if you don’t have anything to hide and it would fix this whole mess. But apparently Brady likes drama or he is hiding something and it’s a lot more cheating than just ball inflation in New England.

  10. Brady’s defense is it is actually pitch dark during the day and bright, bright sunshine in the middle of the night.

    He just has to get someone outside of New England to believe him.

  11. billswillnevermove says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:15 AM
    Funny, Bill doesn’t say he is innocent. He got burned once by Brady lying in his press conference. Brady is the biggest fraud to ever put on an NFL uniform.

    That “fraud” owns your sorry a$$ Bills. And that will continue this seasons!

  12. Brady is a liar who asked the team guys to fix the balls as he wanted them. Not sure if he is smart enough to know the actual rules so he claims ignorance but he still asked the staff to “fix the balls” to his liking.

    Had he been honest enough to say the above last year maybe this would have all gone away but he was not and should be punished for lying about something that definitely has an impact on the game where MILLIONS of dollars is waged.

    with all the breaks that went this cheat’s way you think he’d stand up once and own it!

  13. It’s fun watching all this guilt-driven angst. Everyone knows they’re guilty, and that makes it priceless.

  14. Tom you cheated, I know it’s embarrassing to admit but you cheated. So keep quiet like you’ve been doing and just pray your daddy or the NFLPA make it go away

  15. Shut up Shady, you’re guilty and a cheater, end of story.

    ****, deal with it, that’s your legacy outside the zombie brainwashed pathetic chowd fans.

  16. I`m a Bengal fan so i don`t care about the Pats one way or the other but i`ve said all along that the Wells report won`t make thru court.It didn`t even prove a crime was committed let alone who did it.
    Goodell can drop the suspension or the courts can but either way Brady is playing game 1 and he should.This was a overblown media story whether it happened or not.

  17. “A 4 game suspension is excessive?” For cheating the game for 8 years with an obvious advantage?

    He should have got a year. What he did was 10 times worse than anything the Saints did in BountyGate.

  18. Is it possible that Goodell and the NFL office has the most to hide?

    Personally, I would find it hilarious (and appropriate) if Wells is disbarred and Goodell is fired as a result of a thorough investigation.

    If the NFL front office had been upfront and said they were monitoring football air pressure before the AFCCG, we could actually talk about football! Imagine that! ProFootballTalk would be about football issues, training camp, draft pick performance, and new coaches. That would be a nice change of pace.

  19. If Brady’s suspension is overturned, then the league should really rescind the revocation of the draft pick and the fine. If Brady is innocent then there is no conspiracy and the team is innocent. You can’t punish them for something they didn’t do

  20. billswillnevermove says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:15 AM

    Funny, Bill doesn’t say he is innocent. He got burned once by Brady lying in his press conference. Brady is the biggest fraud to ever put on an NFL uniform.
    ________________

    Bill doesn’t say anything, ever. Him not talking isn’t proof of guilt. It’s just Bill being Bill

  21. jchipwood says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:23 AM

    Turn over your cell phone if you don’t have anything to hide and it would fix this whole mess. But apparently Brady likes drama or he is hiding something and it’s a lot more cheating than just ball inflation in New England

    ———–

    No, the NFL has no right to the personal property of players. Not even to the records

    Even during the Ray Rice tape investigation, league employees such as Goodell only turned over their work phones. They did not let the investigators see their private phones.

    Gotta stand strong or the league will be searching houses next

  22. Brady will win this appeal; then sue the NFL and settle when Bellicheck and himself are appointed sole arbitrators of what is a rules violation.

  23. billswillnevermove says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:15 AM

    Funny, Bill doesn’t say he is innocent. He got burned once by Brady lying in his press conference. Brady is the biggest fraud to ever put on an NFL uniform.

    ______

    Fraud 24 Bills 2

    Must be tough to swallow.

  24. Man, what a loser. Tom Brady is the Barry Bonds equivalent in the NFL. He is a lying cheating skidmark on the league and is in a franchise that has the most blinded bandwagon obnoxious fans, some of which still defend guys like Aaron Hernandez.

    Take your punishment, 4 games is light, suck it up and realize that you got caught red handed and try to get out there and win ONE, just ONE superbowl without having a MASSIVE scandal attached to it. So tired of this.

  25. Goodell and the league already made up their minds.
    The idea that Goodell is also hearing the appeal is so ridiculous.
    I only hope that Brady allows Kessler to obliterate the league officers in court.

  26. What will everyone say if this appeal is reversed? Can we approach this with humility and poise and admit we were all wrong to rush to judgement? Or will the same old drum continue to be beat?

    The answer is somewhere in the middle of right or wrong. The only thing Deflategate has proved is those that hate the pats will continue to hate them and think they’re cheaters, through admission of jealousy or no.

    The fans of the pats will continue to vehemently defend their team regardless of the outcome, right or wrong.

    The caveat to all of this is that Goodell has fabricated a scandal where there did not need to be one. But he still wins in the end regardless of outcome, because we have been talking about the NFL all year round, into the offseason, and overshadowing both NHL/NBA Finals discussing .3PSI in a football.

  27. Even if the largely debunked report showed Brady was ‘fully aware’ of ‘cheating’ (which for the record no one with any science background believes happened) he’s still not guilty of anything.
    General awareness does not constitute a penalty.
    -Packers fan

  28. That won`t happen because Kraft didn`t appeal it.
    That is handled in the back room of the rich boys club so they don`t need proof there.When you have to go to court i would like to have more on my side than the Wells report.

  29. Liberal third party providing NFLPA with info and trying to make the NFL look bad? Shocker.

    The Patriots cheated and it is disgusting how they are trying to pass blame.

  30. Every time Brady fumbles or throws a pick next year….it will reopen the issue of his pre-cheating stats being dubious and contradictory.

  31. It requires a great deal of envy and a heavy dose of intellectual dishonesty to believe the Wells Report proves any kind of cheating.

    He’ll win the appeal.

    And he’ll still be better than your QB and the Pats will still be better than your team.

    DOMINATION for a DECADE & a HALF!

    Suck it, losers!

  32. I would like to know who told Mortensen 11 at 10.5 psi.
    There is ZERO chance that was a simple mistake,
    it was a deliberate act of getting the public behind them 100% for what they were about to do to Patriots.
    Goodell covering this up is disgraceful.

  33. CHEATER—shine that tarnished trophy! I did not know the deflater, who he texted, hide your phone because it shows more lies!

  34. Goodell is all wrong…

    He should have said….If we find more evidence during the appeal that Tom was involved with the ball boys deflating balls, we will suspend him longer.

    Case closed…no appeal.

  35. Deflategate was a hoax. NFL officials that lacked the intellect required of their positions misread the initial evidence, then tried to manipulate that evidence and control the story through a coordinated effort to spread disinformation through friends in the media.

    Having come out with a preliminary finding of the Patriots’ and Brady’s guilt, these men boxed themselves into a position from which they were unable to extricate themselves. Instead of just accepting the facts and evidence, they went on a campaign of manufacturing evidence and selling Brady’s guilt to a public willing to believe anything negative about the Patriots.

    They spent millions on the Wells Law Firm and experts whose testimony was bought and paid for and worked the CBA channels to control the process. The same men that jumped to the wrong conclusions at the start of the investigation were given an opportunity to determine guilt or innocence and to apply suspensions, fines, and the loss of draft picks in an attempt to force Brady to cop a plea. Something he has refused to do.

    Their boss, a man who got the nod from 31 other owners that it was ok to take the Patriots down a notch(in an off-season full of anit-Patriots measures), backed his minions and told his most ardent supporter in ownership that he was dumping him for 31 other guys.

    Thankfully, the truth has a way of coming out (despite a massive cover-up by the NFL) and deflategate is deflating quicker than a Rawlings ball in Lambeau in January.

  36. seahawkboymike says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:29 AM
    “A 4 game suspension is excessive?” For cheating the game for 8 years with an obvious advantage?

    He should have got a year. What he did was 10 times worse than anything the Saints did in BountyGate.
    —————–
    Dude, the Steroid Hawks lost. Get over it.

  37. Here we go with all the *cheatriot and asterisk slander. The season can’t start soon enough
    ———————————-

    Why so the Patri*ts can resume Cheating and try for another Tainted Lombardi*?

    Best Regards

  38. I can’t wait for this story to end and I’m not even a Pats fan. The Pats ruined the Super Bowl, draft, and off season for NFL fans this past year. I hate seeing one unethical organization bring down the entire NFL all because they were caught cheating again. Also, Pats fans are ridiculous for bashing Goodell, Goodell has been the biggest enabler and protector of NE’s cheating culture until now. 15 years of cheating and Goodell turning a blind eye to it reached its boiling point with the rest of the NFL and Goodell couldn’t just let this one slide again… Like he did when the Pats scramble the opposition’s headsets. Why wasn’t that ever investigated?

  39. I actually believe most of this is just jealousy. My position is that Tommy did cheat. My position is also that the deflation did practically squat to give him an advantage. Cheating is still cheating. But notions that Brady is not one of the greats is nonsense. Even if he cheated. Were the balls not at all deflated, pretty sure Brady still crushes his enemies, sees defenses fleeing before him, and revels in the lamentations of the opposing fans.

    Steeler Fan.

  40. ampats says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:23 AM
    Brady will not one minute of a suspension and will be under center Game#1 much to the chagrin of the Steeler fans who have lived on every Patriots deflategate post.

    I chuckle at the Steeler fans (ampatsownsmymind) who say they want him to play as the last time in November 2013 TB lit the Steelers up 55-31.
    —————————————————-

    Well at least you’ve stopped lying about how every Steeler fan is cowering in fear over facing the great Tommy Brady. So we’ve got some progress.

    Contrary to the myth in Patriots fans minds, Tom Brady isn’t undefeated against the Steelers. Sure he’s had some great games, but I’ve also seen a couple contests where’s he’s been owned by the Steeler defense like in 2011. So let the chips fall where they may. I hope he does play, like I’ve said, so we don’t have to hear the kind of whining and excuses like we got back in ’08.

    At least WE won’t be crying over not having Bell.

  41. Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady punks wussies on AND OFF the field! 🙂

    Go get em CHAMP.

  42. The only thing “dubious” is Brady’s refusal to turn over print out’s of texts between him and the 2 deflator’s to prove his innocence and essentially shut down the entire investigation…..if he was innocent.

    If you have nothing to hide, then there is no reason to not do it. They weren’t asking for his entire phone, just select messages between and the 2 stooges.

  43. Jerry Rice cheated. The league did not prove anything. Brady is under no obligation to prove anything. Wells is associated with the same group that generated “reports” saying tobacco and asbestos don’t cause cancer. Spygate boiled down to continuing a practice of taping from the sidelines in plain view in Patriots gear. They weren’t hiding anything. Brady had nothing to do with that. They were exonerated from the false allegations that theu taped walk thtoughs. It was much ado about nothing then, just as now.

    This isn’t Barry Bonds or Roger Clemens. If the league cared about this rule on the books for 60 years, they would have had a process for enforcing it. Brady played better in the second half after the balls were inflated and monitored. No advantage? A technical violation.

    The jealousy of the haters is pitiful.

  44. jamaltimore says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:25 AM
    Brady is a liar who asked the team guys to fix the balls as he wanted them. Not sure if he is smart enough to know the actual rules so he claims ignorance but he still asked the staff to “fix the balls” to his liking.

    Had he been honest enough to say the above last year maybe this would have all gone away but he was not and should be punished for lying about something that definitely has an impact on the game where MILLIONS of dollars is waged.

    with all the breaks that went this cheat’s way you think he’d stand up once and own it!
    Don’t they teach reading comprehension in Baltimore? Brady said he liked the balls to be at the lower limit of legal or 12.5 PSI. He even told the ball boys to tell this to the refs so they wouldn’t inflate the balls beyond this once they were where he wanted them. And of course, if the balls were above 12.5 PSI in the first place , someone would have to deflate them to reach the lower figure. What is missing here is any evidence at all that Brady wanted the balls to be less than 12.5 PSI and that he lowered the balls beyond that or told someone else to do it. And from a logical standpoint, once the balls were at 12.5 PSI where Brady had repeatedly said he wanted them to be, is it likely that some ball boy on his own just decided to lower them beyond that? I don’t think so.
    So we are left with the Wells report faulty science and illogical conclusion that the balls were below that limit and the only explanation for this phenomenon is that someone from the Patriots must have done it.

  45. You can almost feel the fear of the haters on these posts. It’s getting overturned guys. Sorry, but there are no facts to support any cheating. This has been a witch hunt from the start. Goddell is a sorry excuse for a leader. Brady plays Week 1

  46. whitetrash69 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:42 AM
    I can’t wait for this story to end and I’m not even a Pats fan. The Pats ruined the Super Bowl, draft, and off season for NFL fans this past year. I hate seeing one unethical organization bring down the entire NFL all because they were caught cheating again. Also, Pats fans are ridiculous for bashing Goodell, Goodell has been the biggest enabler and protector of NE’s cheating culture until now. 15 years of cheating and Goodell turning a blind eye to it reached its boiling point with the rest of the NFL and Goodell couldn’t just let this one slide again… Like he did when the Pats scramble the opposition’s headsets. Why wasn’t that ever investigated?
    ———————
    My advice to you is to stop watching proffesional sports. If you think your team is free of rule bending you’re delusional and misguided.

  47. As a Pats fan, I am fully convinced that Goodell will uphold the entire suspension, because that is how he operates. He never admits that the NFL does anything wrong, no matter how trivial, unless and until he is backed into a corner and has to back down in order to save face. So Goodell will uphold the entire suspension, and then Brady’s attack dog lawyers will tear into the Wells report in court, and the NFL lawyers will be embarrassed trying to defend it. At that point, I think Goodell will listen to the NFL’s lawyers (not Wells, but the lawyers assigned specifically to defend the suspension) and will try to cut a deal that will result in anything less than a total Brady victory. That’s how Goodell runs things. It’s a bad way to run the NFL, but that’s how he does it.

  48. Once Brady’s suspension is overturned, the draft picks must be reinstated and R. Stokoe Goodell needs to take a permanent vacation.

  49. Rawlings makes baseballs and Wilson makes footballs. Silly me. After all of the talk about the Wilson logo on the air pressure gauge how could I miss who makes the football.

  50. Poster “jolink653” brings up a good point.If Brady’s suspension is reversed, how then can the league penalize NE for the picks and money? An overturned suspension would exonerate the player of the accusations.Interesting scenario,common sense would dictate it has to be all or nothing, but in the fantasy land of the NFL it’s anyone’s guess.

  51. I suspect this story is planted by NFL, to make Brady and NFLPA look bad if they don’t get a reduction to zero or decide not to go to court.

    Just like intentional leaking of false deflation numbers to sway public opinion from the get go.

    Now a 1 game for not cooperating will look like guilt.

  52. Quit worrying patsie fans, Goodell will forgive deflator Brady so he can be in good graces with Kraft who has paid for Brady’s sins time served!!!

  53. chippy, haven’t heard from you for a while but good to see your analysis is still spot off.

  54. So if this matter gets before an objective forum, and God I hope it does, and Brady wins are all you people who are convinced that he is guilty without a shred of credible evidence to support that conclusion going to get on here and say you were wrong? If you did that I would have some respect for you, but I am pretty sure that if that happens there will be a new conspiracy theory to explain how it happened and you will all be on here spouting that.
    Can you at least connect the dots here and see that in minds like yours Brady can never win because you hate him so much you can’t allow yourselves to think that the reason he wins is that he is just that good.

  55. What the haters don’t wish to listen to is that the officials are notorious for over inflating the footballs so if the officials inflate the ball to 14 or 16 psi doesn’t the QB have the right to change them back to legal pressure. The NFL created this mess by not allowing teams to then inspect footballs after the refs have. They use multiple gauges the give different results the whole system is wrong yet somehow the blind haters think only one guy is to blame. Wake up and stop being sheep it is obvious the old Jets front office people that work at the NFL now are on a personal witch hunt

  56. steeltroll…

    You think Brady cheated, but that it did squat…

    So what is it that you know, that Brady doesn’t know. Obviously if Brady cheated, he did so to create an advantage. Are you saying, he cheated, but he wasn’t convinced that cheating helped? That is non-sensical.

  57. Whitetrash, Did the Pats ruin it or did the NFL and Goodell ruin it?

    Even after the AEI report which completely debunks wells reports and proves balls were NOT deflated you still assume Patriots guilt.

    Has it ever occurred to you, and the evidence clearly shows this, that no crime was committed, thet Bardy is telling the truth and that the real CHEATS are in the league office????

  58. You know what’s really neat? When Brady wins his defamation lawsuit, the money awarded will in part be reflected by the negative comments that show up on these sites. Its obvious proof that many people have been negatively impacted by what will be proven to have been a contrived, illegal and sustained effort to confuse, embarress, penalize and ultimately defame Brady.
    Also don’t forget that the money for the trial and subsequent awards to Brady and the Patriots will be coming out of your pockets. The owners are not going to simply adsorb those costs. They will pass them on as increased ticket costs or the cost of beer at the stadium or the team jerseys you buy.

    And Brady? He’ll still be a first ballot HoFer. He will be under center opening night and for the other 15 games of the regular season. And he will win another Super Bowl making him the undisputed greatest quarter back of all time. And again, all you who are mocking him now only serve to feed his resolve to win. You know its true. The ONLY reason deflate gate went forward was because Goodell and his minions were absolutely stunned that the Patriots won the Super Bowl. They didn’t then, still don’t now and neither do you understand what makes this guy tick. So keep feeding his resolve folks.
    As for the rest of us, all continues to be right in the world.

  59. Brady is going down and everyone knows it, including himself. Save face, Tom, and admit to the wrongdoings
    ——————
    The NFL can not add any more games to Brady’s suspension as a result of the appeal. Brady can’t go down, he is already down. His position can only be improved.

  60. “Dubious, contradictory and mischaracterized circumstantial evidence”: this pretty much sounds like the case against Ben Roethlisberger. But that didn’t stop ampats and the other Pats fan lunatics from skipping the facts and going right to the “guilty!” verdict. Now of course the victim of the circumstantial is one Tom Brady — and Pats fans are screaming at the injustice of it all!

    Oh this is rich! What a spectacle! What great entertainment! This is really why we’re following Deflategate buddy — just to see you all get a taste of your circumstantial medicine!

    How’s it taste by the way?

  61. Aaron Hernandez didn’t pull the trigger either, I mean there was no videotape of it, must be true.

    Sincerely,
    Delusional Deflatriot fans

  62. Brady = ZERO Games Missed. Pats 52 Steelers 3.

    All haters will be crying… “I wasted all those days and nights dreaming and posting about..Cheaters, Taints and *Asterisk and he misses no games. Life isn’t fair and they keep on winning when will this madness stop”

  63. .
    As they say : “Round up the usual suspects”

    ….. who have not read the Wells Report or the Rebuttal. Chris Mortenson

  64. clelek05 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:51 AM

    You can almost feel the fear of the haters on these posts. It’s getting overturned guys. Sorry, but there are no facts to support any cheating. This has been a witch hunt from the start. Goddell is a sorry excuse for a leader. Brady plays Week 1

    Remember when you said the Wells report would exonerate the Pats and they’d be awarded Colts’ picks?

    And when Kraft was going to sue the NFL?

    Ahhh, funny times.

    Your track record is as clean and the Pats’ integrity.

  65. My advice to you is to stop watching proffesional sports. If you think your team is free of rule bending you’re delusional and misguided.
    ——————————

    And there we have it folks, “rules bending” the explanation of delusional Patri*ts’ fans for their Serial Cheating.

    I did say delusional didn’t I?

    Best Regards

  66. Does anyone have a gut feeling a deal has already been made by Kraft accepting the fines and loss of draft picks in exchange for Brady being there for week 1. If you read what the commish said a few weeks ago he said he is not totally binded with the findings in the Wells report, I found that would be exactly what would be said if a deal was already in place. It would be nice if Brady served 1 game and served another 3 for benefiting from spy gate…

  67. Questions that Goodell & others will be made to answer:

    Why Goodell, Vincent, Grigson, Harbaugh, Well$ and others are unwilling to release their phone texts/records and emails ?

    Why did the NFL front office leak FALSE & Defamatory statements to the ESPN & the News Media ?

    Why Goodell did not immediately, nor since, correct the false leaks? Integrity ???

    Why did Goodell FALSELY state on National TV that the investigation was IMPARTIAL?

    Why did Well$ throw out/reject UNBIASED SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE that #1.) Exonerated Brady & PATS and #2.) IMPLICATED the Colts

    Why were the Colts footballs NOT investigated with the same MERIT/INTEGRITY/IMPARTIALITY as the PATRIOTS?

    Why did Goodell LIE & DENY about the sting operation set up by Vincent Grigson Colts with NFL approval?

    Why did Goodell NOT make a statement of INTEGRITY concerning the outcome of the AFCCG when RULE 17 NFL Footballs exonerated BRADY & PATRIOTS in a blow out 28-0 second half game?

    Why did Goodell promote and issue inaccurate and false leaks from his office two weeks leading up to SB XLIX?

    Why did Goodell REFUSE to make a statement of INTEGRITY concerning the most heavily scrutinized NFL game, played with Rule 17 NFL Footballs, under the most intense NFL watch in the entire history of the NFL?

    Why did Goodell REFUSE to exonerate BRADY & PATRIOTS with the SCIENTIFIC UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE from both the AFCCG and SB XLIX and Law of PHYSICS/GAS LAW?

    Why has Goodell & Well$ willfully violated the INTEGRITY of the NFL ?

  68. I wonder how many games will be added to Brady’s suspension and how many more draft picks the Pats will lose because of the St.louis Cardinals hacking scandal.

  69. The loss of the draft picks is what sticks in my gut… The NFL will 100% ultimately lose the Brady appeal once they get outside the NFL’s Kangaroo court. But, with Kraft not having done what he should have – sued the league for an absolute miscarriage of justice – I have zero belief the league will do what is called for… rescind the team’s penalty as there was ZERO evidence the balls were actually deflated against the Colts.

    All this libel and slander brought on the team by lying, incompetent, buffoons pursuing an agenda. Hell, I’d have sought the draft picks and mucho dinero as punishment of the brainless fools running this league.

  70. Will one blind homer pats fan explain the text messages to me, then maybe I can understand your logic. How are they not damming? Brady knew the jig was up and he tried to calm them both down. Belechick has told others behind closed doors he didn’t believe Brady. Take the blind folds off already!

  71. There have now been numerous studies blowing apart the Wells report. From AEI, the Nobel Prize guy in the Pats rebuttal report, and physicists such as the fellow at the University of Chicago. I have yet to see a compelling defense of the science in the Wells report.

    It’s clear that there is no evidence of deflation. Indeed, the evidence indicates that it didn’t happen. In which case the nicknames and texts of the Pats ball boys – however odd or suspicious – are meant to explain what exactly?

    The only reason people think any cheating happened is because the NFL lied about this (2 PSI under) for five months.

    The only reason Goodell will have to uphold this suspension is to salvage the tattered credibility of Wells. That just isn’t good enough.

  72. You can’t hide the truth by not cooperating with an investigation and expect to be exonerated.

  73. I feel like I am the only Pats fan who is able to be realistic and objective here.

    It’s clear that my Patriots got caught cheating again. Brady’s refusal to share the messages between him and the two attendants pretty much proves that he has something to hide. Especially since they weren’t trying to invade his privacy by asking for his entire cell phone.

    It will suck that we will lose Brady for a few games, but if that’s what it takes to get us to stop cheating once and for all, I’m ok with it. Especially since we just won the SB. BB and RK need to put an and to this institutional cheating once and for all. The benefit of the stuff we got caught cheating on is hardly worth it.

  74. How corrupt is the commissioner’s office that it would frame Tom Brady?

    Remember when Ted Wells did something I have never seen a lawyer do, he came out and said the institution he represented had no motive to go after its star player?

    Wells lied. The only person without a motive was Brady.

    Institutions are made up of people who first and foremost care about themselves. The NFL guys that ran with deflategate cared only about their own reputations, personal vindication, and their ability to sustain the power the CBA bestows on them. They were and are small minded, petty, institutional bureaucrats. The type of people that throughout history have overseen horror after horror. Go back and watch films like Titicut Follies to see what institutional bureaucracy is capable of doing to individuals.

    The irony is that so many people that normally would be the first to point out their inherent distrust of bureaucracy have attached themselves to the NFL and the Wells report like barnacles to a wooden boat because the target is the Patriots, a team they hate and envy.

    The end justifies the means, doesn’t it haters?

  75. DennisT,
    I would say both are responsible. The evidence points to guilty, that is the majority view. Also, AEI offered their opinion, they didn’t prove anything. I do agree on that point but the balls were still deliberately tampered with after they were allowed to be, it doesn’t matter what the psi levels are because its a rules violation no matter what. Lastly, the scientific argument has plausible deniability written all over it, this is a common strategy used by criminal defense teams. Be honest, you are hoping he gets off based on a technicality, not because he seems innocent.

  76. Will one blind homer pats fan explain the text messages to me, then maybe I can understand your logic. How are they not damming? Brady knew the jig was up and he tried to calm them both down. Belechick has told others behind closed doors he didn’t believe Brady. Take the blind folds off already!

    ___________________________________

    Which texts? Even if the dude called himself the ‘Deflator’ because he delfates balls (which isn’t illegal unless it’s after they’ve received them back from the officials) there is ZERO evidence deflation happened after the officials had the balls. Brady contacting JJ after everything went down doesn’t at all indicate guilt. If someone you work closely with is accused of something that is reported to involve you, you wouldn’t call them to figure out what was going on? Brady referring to “getting them done” can very easily refer to getting the balls prepared the way he likes it. Your mind automatically jumps to the conclusion that “getting them done” means sneak the balls past the officials, run into a bathroom for a minute and a half, deflate all the footballs and keep tom happy. Which of those scenarios sounds more idiotic. You need to take the blinders off – SCIENCE DOESN”T LIE! Stringing together separate texts from over the course of over a year doesn’t amount to very strong “evidence.”

  77. bigbensbathroomseed says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:18 PM
    Will one blind homer pats fan explain the text messages to me, then maybe I can understand your logic. How are they not damming? Brady knew the jig was up and he tried to calm them both down. Belechick has told others behind closed doors he didn’t believe Brady. Take the blind folds off already!

    So you know what Belichick thinks ? You think the press does ? Good one…

    Why did one equipment guy text the other telling him he needed to “deflate” some more before he’d be able to fit in a particular jacket ? Because “deflate” means air out of balls ?

    Brady tried to console two guys who were being burned at the stake by Wells and his incompetent crew…

    Sounds perfectly plausible to me.

  78. Johnodock: Brady did cooperate. He refused to give over his phone, as is his legal right under labor law, and as he was encourage to do by the Player’s Association. The NFL does not have the right to demand that level of cooperation, and they have very rarely done so in the past (they didn’t during Bountygate, for instance).

    The burden of proof lies with those making accusations, not with the person seeking exoneration. This is basic.

    Here is a list of some of those who find the Wells report and the NFL discipline a fiasco: Peter King, Mike Florio, Sally Jenkins, Dan Wetzel, Tom Curran. On the other side you have your average yahoo NFL fan, motivated by jealousy and whipped up by carnival barkers like Chris “I didn’t read the Wells Report but I’m going to scream ‘shut up’ at Tom Brady’s father” Russo.

    Wake up. You and the rest are letting you emotions get the best of you.

  79. Anyone with half a brain can figure out that the NFL told Wells what they needed for a conclusion and he found the scientific organization with a history of ‘finding’ the way the client needed. Then he twisted the information into a neat little biased package. The NFL offices are obviously corrupt and who knows maybe Goodell is just a babbling fool who doesn’t know or care what his underlings are doing.

  80. I think Brady walks into the meeting, his four super bowl rings glittering on his hand, a red cape of sable and a lombardi trophy as his septer.

    He then tell’s Roger, ‘look we both know that this is BS, you can exonerate me now, or we can take this to court and in court I’m gonna subpoena your phone records’.

    All of them. You didn’t see the Ray Rice videos before the rest of us? Well see what your texts say.

    This wasn’t a sting operation against the Patriots, let’s see the records.

    By the end Goodell is kneeling in front of Brady kissing the rings.

    The end.

  81. Godell can not overturn the suspension, he will look like a fool. He will be accused of pandering for Kraft, for a backdoor deal.

    No this all ends up with an injunction and then a trial and finally exoneration.

    eventually ending up with Godell being fired and the ex-jets being thrown out of the NFL offices.

    if i was Brady i would personally sue Godell for this slander.

  82. All the NFL employees turned over their phones
    Our guy never will
    The CBA requires all NFL players to cooperate in investigations of wrongdoing
    Our guy didn’t
    TB is the FIRST NFL player in history to refuse to cooperate with the league.
    Its pretty embarrassing, actually
    I wish he would just come clean, cost 2 guys their jobs
    4 games is getting off easy, leave it alone.

  83. I wonder if tears will well up in Brady’s eyes as the banner unfurls on kickoff thursday night at gilette.

    He will be there and he will play. No doubt about that.

  84. .
    The best end game for Goodell is this :

    A. Declare the Wells Report inconclusive

    B. Throw Exponent under the bus to save Wells

    C. Remove all sanctions and declare yourself ‘ The New Solomon ”

    D. Stay out of any courtroom where your 44 million in salary is useless.

    E. Use the NFL Network and league water carriers like ESPN to sell the victory of truth, justice and the American way under the leadership of patriarch, Roger Goodell.
    .
    .

  85. the scientific argument has plausible deniability written all over it,

    RIDICULOUS

    anyone who lives in a cold climate knows what happens to anything inflated with air on a cold day. to deny that is to show anything that proves the patriots did no wrong will never crack the haters minds.

  86. Brady should start off the appeal meeting by punching Goodell right in the face then kick him in the balls.

    And stand over him and say how does that feel? Then tell Goodell see you in court and tell him bring your checkbook biaaaaatch!

  87. collinsj2015 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:19 PM

    A Princeton Physics professor with pretty dang good credentials proved this cant be attributed to science, as well as an engineering company. Some say yes, some say no. Either way it cant prove or disprove anything. So we have to go by other evidence- like nicknaming urself The Deflator in a case labeled ‘deflategate’. Thats supsicious. Then it was “well with cameras everywhere how would they even get away with this???” then we find out they went to the one place in that stadium without cameras, hmmmm wierd. Then after the game Brady contact the ball boy 6 different times- a guy brady has never talked to. Odd. Then Brady refuses to show his phone, the most glaring evidence he is guilty. You can try to pin this on science when that has YET to be proven, AEI gave their opinion, just like the princeton professor did. Who cares.

  88. There is no doubt in my mind that Brady asked that the low level employees for low level PSI inflation. There is a doubt whether he just wanted lowest PSI allowed under the rules. If that’s the case, he did nothing wrong. The Wells report is full of holes, but we’ll see what happens.

  89. themikegun says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:14 PM
    It’s going to be interesting when Goodell hands Brady the Super Bowl 50 MVP trophy next February!

    2 1
    Report comment

    If the Patriots win I hope when Goodell brings the trophy to the stage, the Patriots tell him put the trophy on the stage and then leave. Let him take no part and have to walk away in front of the international audience.

  90. “The only thing “dubious” is Brady’s refusal to turn over print out’s of texts between him and the 2 deflator’s to prove his innocence and essentially shut down the entire investigation…..if he was innocent.”

    ————————————————-

    Do you understand how text messages work? When you send one to somebody, there is a copy on the sender’s phone and a copy on the recipient’s phone.

    If they searched the 2 equipment guys’ phones, any text Brady sent to or received from them was on their phones. Ergo, there is nothing on Brady’s phone that wouldn’t have shown up on their phones.

    I know that is too deep from some people to understand. Just ignore another indisputable fact and scream … CHEATER!

    Pathetic.

  91. I am embarrassed for the entire NFL for this utter debacle and the mishandling of the whole situation rests at the feet of Roger Goddell. He should, and I suspect likely will, lose his job over this once the whole truth comes to light. This has been a witch hunt from the start. Tom Brady was not proven guilty of ANYTHING. No evidence that he asked for balls to be deflated below legal limit…no evidence that he even wanted the balls below legal limit. Good for Brady for taking a stand, drawing a line in the sand, and NOT turning over his email and cell phone. This wasn’t just good for Brady, it was good for ALL players wo have to battle the over-reaching NFL. Enough is ENOUGH! They already had Brady’s text-messages from the ball-handlers cell phones…they did not need Brady’s cell phone…and to ask for it is a HUGE invasion of privacy.

    Having said all that…watch Brady get the whole thing reversed…and Roger Goddell yet again come off as someone who is incompetent when it comes to handling scandals. His handling of them make the story bigger than it ever needed to be. Goddell’s handling of just about every scandal in the NFL this past year has back-fired, making the scandal bigger than it needed to be. Goddell needs to GO!

  92. “letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:40 PM
    collinsj2015 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:19 PM

    A Princeton Physics professor with pretty dang good credentials proved this cant be attributed to science, as well as an engineering company. …”

    Actually that’s not true. They said if you assume the Ref used the gauge he said he didn’t use, then science can’t explain it. We are to believe Walt Anderson’s memory is perfect in all matters related to this, other than what gauge he used before the game.

  93. steeltroll…

    You think Brady cheated, but that it did squat…

    So what is it that you know, that Brady doesn’t know. Obviously if Brady cheated, he did so to create an advantage. Are you saying, he cheated, but he wasn’t convinced that cheating helped? That is non-sensical.
    ——————————————————————–

    It’s not at all non-sensical. It’s against the rules to deflate the ball. He had the balls deflated. That’s cheating. I’m not at all convinced that the extent to which the balls were deflated gave him any appreciable advantage. Whether Brady was convinced it gave him a big advantage or not seems irrelevant to whether it actually did. Pay attention to what actually follows from the proposition put forward.

  94. he was called the deflator because yes that is what he did, he ensured that when the refs set the pressure to 16 psi, he deflated the balls to the correct pressure.

    i would bet all teams did this

    but this is your excuse to fine brady for four games, ridiculous

  95. danno2112 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:41 AM

    Blah, blah, blah….A cheater caught cheating will continue to deny and blame others. Take your medicine Tommy boy.

    He will probably start suing everyone like Lance Armstrong sued everyone who accused him of doping.

    Then say sorry later on.

  96. Still a lose/lose situation for NFL/ Gooddell…..
    Either the SB MVP will be in street clothes for the Thursday night season opener when the banner comes down,and that probably will never happen again in the history of the NFL.
    Or Roger lifts the suspension and everyone who remembers how more Spy Gate evidence was destroyed in Foxboro three days after ruling was announced will cry foul .(again)
    IMO perfect scenario would have Roger losing his job regardless of what happens to Brady.
    This has been one entertaining offseason and I would like to thank Brady and Pats nation for that.

  97. I’m a fan of some other team, I forget which, but so TOTALLY not he Patriots. And my opinion is this: blah blah buzz buzz rumble rumble (hands over ears) not listening, not listening… FOUR RING! Suck it, baby… even though my team is not as good… I am really envious and with… blah blah blah… only wish my team was as good as these guys and my QB as dreamy as Tommy Boy, who I so clearly the victim of a witch hunt here.

    There, I think that summarizes all the faux “non-Pats fans'” secret love and jealousy of the Pats nicely. Maybe I should also claim to be a friend of the organization with insider knowledge…?

    Hand over the phone and maybe somebody west of Providence will believe you.

  98. Bostonparty,
    Do you realize you just made my point? Its plausible under the conditions and a way to distance yourself from the situation. That’s why criminal attorneys use.. You are arguing with yourself

  99. The pouting, whining, crying little cheater needs to give up his phone. Simple solution to the problem. Everyone except for the blind punk cheatriot fans see this. Either PROVE you are innocent or take your punishment like a MAN, instead of crying like the little girl we all know you are

  100. lance armstrong was accused of doping by members on his team, can you tell me one team mate of Brady’s or ex tea mate over 14 years who has come forward and said he cheated?

    didn’t think so, but continue to ignore the truth, and wait till Godell screws your team, its bound to happen

  101. I hope to Gosh this thing gets taken to court. Hey why doesn’t Goddell turn over HIS phone records so we can see how many calls and texts he made to “Honest Ted Come on Down and Get Your Used Pontiac” Wells telling Wells to “find the Patriots guilty no matter what.”

    Then the attack dogs will say that Bob Kraft himself hacked Goddell’s account to fabricate the text, and righteously ask for more asterisks to be applied.

  102. quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:45 PM

    Ok perfect, so whatever AEI says is dismissed b/c we dont know the expact PSI level right? Fine, lets look at other facts. Brady refusing to cooperate (regardless of other phones they got- brady should cooperate if he is innocent. Unless ofcourse there are texts to other ppl- BB, Robert Kraft???). Lets look at the ball boy calling himself the deflator, complaining about how specific brady is about the balls, threatening to “go to espn”, what would they have to go to them about if nothing wrong is happening?!?!?! The fact brady called ball boy 6 times after the game- this is a guy brady claims he never speaks with ever. All this is pretty easily explainable- cheating. OR a variety of crazy explanation- fall ball boy refers to himself as deflator b/c of his ‘weight’. The ball boy was going to go to espn about getting free stuff from brady (yea, b/c espn cares about that, and the ball boys wants the free stuff to stop???), brady was worried about person info in his phone coming out (even tho wells didnt even want the phone, just tom brady’s camp to tell him what THEY find). Either one very easy solution, or a series of random coincidences that dont make sense.

  103. Lost on pats fans is that the “haters” they refer to have the SAME interests in hoping that this is all a bunch of hogwash. ALL of us want to believe that cheating isn’t happening. NONE of us want the NFL devolving into the WWF. If you’re wishing for Brady to be confirmed a cheater, then pats fans are right. You’re blind haters. The whole thing sucks.

  104. tbisgod says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:34 PM
    All the NFL employees turned over their phones
    Our guy never will
    The CBA requires all NFL players to cooperate in investigations of wrongdoing
    Our guy didn’t
    TB is the FIRST NFL player in history to refuse to cooperate with the league.
    Its pretty embarrassing, actually

    ===================

    Come on man, you can’t just make up stuff. Brady is not the first NFL player charged by the league with refusing to cooperate. Brett Favre refused to turn over his cell phone in the league investigation into sexual harassment charges against him. His penalty was $50,000 and a stern letter not to do it again. In other words, well short of the four-game suspension facing Brady.

  105. “He will probably start suing everyone like Lance Armstrong sued everyone who accused him of doping.”

    ——————————————–

    I understand what analogies are versus comparisons. Comparing Brady to Lance Armstrong or Barry Bonds has got to take the cake.

    Let’s say for one second that Brady in fact did order the balls to be deflated. Highly unlikely, but let’s say for the sake of this discussion, he did.

    Do you really think for one second that it would have made much of any difference to an all star NFL quarterback? MAYBE a TRIVIAL advantage at best, if even that.

    There is no way you can analogize or compare the heavy use of steroids and PED’s to a fraction of a PSI in a football.

    Your argument is so shameful and ridiculous, it deserves no further discussion or recognition.

  106. “letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:55 PM
    quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 16, 2015 12:45 PM

    Ok perfect, so whatever AEI says is dismissed b/c we dont know the expact PSI level right?…”

    Not at all. The Wells report and the AEI report both conclude that there was either no crime committed at all (AEI) or they have no idea of one was committed (Wells). That’s the end of the story!

    If there is strong evidence of the balls not being deflated by humans or even strong evidence that who knows what happened, you don’t go throwing people in jail. It would be like the murder victim walking into court and the Judge sending the suspect to jail for putting up a defense!

  107. All this is going to do is get a lot of people hurt. All the clowns that come to Foxboro this year with any type of sign with ” cheater” or any thing negative about Brady are going to get beat up. It’s one thing to post things on PFT but when you go to a game it’s a whole different world. People in New England are crazy and love the Pats it’s like someone insulting your mother…. Tread lightly if you plan on going to a Pats game and plan on saying some of the things that I’ve read hear you will get bundled.

  108. Some players aspire to greatness. Others simply deflate their way to it.

    From Sony Studios, makers of “the Spygate Who Loved Me,” comes the story of a lowly sixth-round draft choice who became a number one in all our hearts!

    Tom Brady
    Bill Belichick
    and introducing Little Jimmy McNally as “The Deflator”

    Starring in this year’s soon-to-be smash hit: 4*

    4*. Because there’s no problem that a little needle can’t fix.

    Opening July 4th in theaters everywhere.

  109. Brady is screwed no matter what. I remember when the QB of the team I root for was questioned over, but never even arrested, much less indicted for sexual misconduct. But he was given a 6 (!) game suspension reduced to 4 over unsubstantiated accusations (compare the Rice fiasco) and is called a rapist by fans of every other team. Get used to it Pats fans. It does not matter whether Brady is cleared or not. Does not matter one little bit.

  110. Yeah, the patriots got big rings with lots of diamonds. But no matter how hard they try to polish them, they’re TARNISHED. And that stabs all these excuse-making pats fans in the heart — they just won’t admit it.

  111. Goodell will do what he stupidly does and then gets chastised by a judge. Hope Goodell sticks with his punishment for Brady so Brady’s lawyers can drag him to court. Brady did not cheat to win 4 SBs. It’s awesome how he consistently wins, with or without the manufactured scandals in the salary cap era. Goodell thinks he’ll win against Brady? Jets don’t win against Brady.

  112. I love pats fans accepting the cheating, then saying “it didnt even help brady”. When was the last time someone cheated and it didnt help them? I can argue PED’s didnt really help A-rod, he still hits home runs right? We cant quantify exactly how much they helped him. But in his head, the risk of getting caught and tarnishing his legacy was worth the advantage PED’s gave him. In this case, the advantage was worth it to brady to risk his legacy- so id say it helped him considerably. Eli played around with deflated balls after this came out, his analogy “it makes a difference. a noticeable difference”. We’ll see this yrs cold weather QBR rating and teams fumble ratio compared to previous yrs to know for sure. But in all the times ive cheated in monopoly, i never steal a $1 bill and gain a ‘small’ advantage. I take a $100 or $500. Pretty simple logic.

  113. Brady wasn’t asked to give over his phone. He was asked to allow his lawyers to go through his phone and allow the investigators to see the relevant texts. He refused. So it’s the NFL’s right to take that into consideration.
    And for others who say they already had the two employees’ texts, there are others to whom he could have sent texts concerning the deflating of footballs. And maybe those texts could help exonerate the two employees who lost their jobs because of this, remember them? But I guess Brady feels he’s done enough for them, you know, with the signed memorabilia he’s given them.

  114. You can’t hide the truth by not cooperating with an investigation and expect to be exonerated.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Goodell & Well$ are not looking for Truth. That has been made Loud & Clear since the sting set up by Vincent and executed with great prejudice during the AFCCG.

    What Goodell & Well$ are seeking is bits & pieces of information that they can ‘ADJUST’ to their pre-determination of guilt.

    Prosecutors only care about the info that fits their description of evidence pointing to guilt.

    Prosecut0rs NEVER want to know the TRUTH if it exonerates the accused.

    LOGIC or Willful IGNORANCE

    You Choose.

  115. Here is what I think we are going to see after the appeal, if it is overturned.
    Brady holds a press conference with Goodell. Brady reiterates and confirms what was stated in the Wells report that 4 footballs were OVER inflated during the Jets game earlier in the season. One actually measured 16 psi and the following day the 2 ball attendants texted about that fact about Brady being right all along regarding the balls feeling like bricks. Brady went psycho over that issue and verbally attacked the 2 attendants when in fact it was the leagues fault by way of the referee. That referee has since been fired in the past week by the NFL. The rules state between 12.5 – 13.5 so the league was not following its own rules. Brady at that point instructed the ball handlers to make sure that NEVER happens again. I will bet that Brady even instructed the 2 handlers to check to make sure the balls are not over inflated and if it meant carrying a pin so be it. That is illegal but if the referees won’t inflate the balls to the legal limits then in reality there is no rule. Brady accepts the CALLED FOR $25,000 fine. The NFL issues an apology. Wells also issues an apology for not being a scientist and not knowing fully all avenues the report should have considered and admits that he was trying to be unbiased but he blindly ended up taking on more of a role of prosecutor. (I do not believe he blindly did anything the NFL did not order but it gets him and the NFL off the hook for that) Brady then jokes that he would like to have 15 interceptions removed from his lifetime stats and 15 TD’s added as it is more probable than not that footballs being 2 and a half pounds over the psi limit during his career have hurt his TD/Interception ratio.

  116. You are ignoring every other piece of evidence. Im saying even if we take out AEI and Wells reports of PSI before and after game, etc…. That is all null and void. Looking at other evidence- ball boys nickname, him talking about going to ESPN about brady, brady refusing to cooperate, him contacting the ball boy after the game 6 times, the ball boy going to the one place in the stadium without a camera, then lying about it. Regardless of any PSI or Science talk. Every other bit of evidence points to wrongdoing. Wells saw it, NFL see’s it, Every fan other than New England fans see it. Maybe 95% of the football population is wrong, and JUST the pats fans are right. Seems about as resonable as everything i just mentioned being a coincidence after the Ravens said they thought the pats were deflating balls. The odds all those pieces fall into perfect place after that allegation makes pats the most unlucky team of all team. Which is odd, since Pats fans attribute the lack of fumbling to luck, which the odds of that have been shown to be .00017%.

  117. This is undisputed:

    – The Ball that was intercepted by the Colts had the PSI measured 3 times. ALL were perfectly in the range per the ideal gas law. In other words a GAME ball was not tampered with.

    – The game ball tested by the Colts – the 12th ball, was perfect and had no loss of air was for the most part ignored in the Wells report.

    – The Ref said he thought he used the Logo gauge and when checking the halftime measurements with the Logo gauge, the Patriots PSIs as a group are exactly where they should be per the Ideal Gas law. This is in the Wells report.

    – The entire physical evidence is based on the premise that the Colts footballs deflated less than the Patriots footballs.

    – One gauge, the non-logo one registers approximately .40 PSI less the the Logo gauge.

    – To prove something in science the methods must be detailed and the results must be able to be duplicated.

    – AEI used the statistical data from Exponent the science firm in the Wells report and duplicated the statistical modeling. Calculation for the ideal gas law etc.

    – Per AEI using the methods used in the Wells report did NOT produce the results in the Wells report. Only by using flawed and incorrect modeling could the results be duplicated. In other words, the results from Exponent are FRAUDULENT. Read the full AEI paper, they do not use the word fraudulent but it is a correct characterization.

    – The Wells report estimated that the Colts footballs were gauged immediately after the Patriots footballs and they also stated that they ran out of time and could only gauge 4 footballs.

    – AEI did statistical modeling with the assumption that the Colts footballs were gauged early in the halftime break and before they had a chance to heat up. The results were the Colts footballs were out of the range per the ideal gas law and they had too much PSI and it was statistically significant. In other words it was not possible for the Colts footballs to be measured early during half time and produce such high PSi levels.

    – Based on the results of the Colts PSI levels and PHYSICS, the Colts footballs were measured towards the end of the half during which the SPI levels rose in the 72 degree heat. This was the reason for the difference in PSi changes and it also ties with the fact that only 4 Colts footballs were gauged do to a time constraint.

    – Per AEI, the Patriots footballs were as a group at the proper PSI levels per the ideal gas law – in other words no tampering.

    So there you have it, the intercepted ball was confirmed to not be tampered with, the difference in PSI changes is explained and the the Wells report contains a fraudulent report. it reminds me of a scientist several years ago that claimed to be able to prove fusion at room temperature. When other scientists tried to duplicate his methods, they could not and the scientist was proven to be a fraud and was disgraced.

    The only thing left is the texts which alone mean nothing if there is no tampering. The context also is not clear. For example, if the word bet was found buried in a text over a period of a year would that mean that the Patriots were fixing games? That is close to the same extreme as using the deflator in a text from MAY 2014 to prove tampering in a game in January 2015 – 8 months later.

    As far as the closed minded people out there, if you want to believe the Patriots cheated nothing will likely change your mind, not science, common sense or a lack of evidence. However, for the record the science is true whether you believe it or not.

  118. Still waiting for Brady to cooperate. Waiting……….

    And don’t compare him to Brett Favre’s non suspension since Favre’s actions had no effect on games.

    Ravens should be the most angry since the deflated balls likely effected that tight game.

  119. Reasoning means little to Goodell and even less when it comes from the NFLPA. At this point, the NFLPA just needs to make sure they gave the NFL process a chance. It’s just a matter of showing up for the appeal, seeing that Goodell actually is presiding over the appeal, then walking out on him and making their way to a real court.

  120. Well, this will be only the 3rd or 4th time that Goodell has said he trusts the Wells Report. Do you really think this wasted attempt is going to be any different? I guess it plays well to lemmings.

    As for the suspension, it isn’t just the culpability in the action itself, it’s the lack of cooperation when the NFL was investigating the situation. My bet is the greater part of the 4 games is based on Brady’s refusal to provide his phone data. Brady’s in a cleft stick of his own cutting. If he provides the phone, they’ll have him dead to rights; if he doesn’t provide the phone, he’s still not cooperating.

    If he had just come clean in January/February, this whole situation would have been over in a trice, but Bill B sold him down the river to cover himself and Tom doesn’t know how to cheat the system like Belichick does.

  121. Here’s something else we all should find dubious and contradictory…

    When DeflateGate first began to gather momentum I recall Tom Brady stating that he didn’t even know who Jastremski and McNally were.

    Wouldn’t that make it extremely difficult to personally inscribe and autograph the shoes, jackets and especially the autographed “50,000 yard” game balls he gave them?

    Speaking of the autographed game balls, I also seem to recall that Tom Brady was willing to inscribe them in any way he was asked to. Again, a very hard thing to do if you don’t know someone.

    Also… depending on what happened to these autographed game balls and what was inscribed on them wouldn’t it be possible that Tom Brady is a party to fraud?

    If McNally & Jastremski still have these souvenirs then great… no harm, no foul.

    However, if these souvenirs were sold (which it would be reasonable to believe they were considering the fact that the ball boy didn’t earn much money) and a trusting New England fan purchased it believing it was a game used ball from a record setting game wouldn’t that amount to fraud?

    So… which is it Tom? Either you didn’t know either of these two gentleman or you did.

    Obviously, it can’t be both ways.

  122. the longer this goes, the worse it gets for the nfl.

    goodell has so much egg on his face if he falls to the sidewalk on a hot day he’ll make an omlette.

    the BEST course for the league is to find a technical loophole (of which there are plenty) to let brady off the hook while staying atop their moral high ground.

    beyond that, kensil is a bigger embarrassment to the “integrity” of the nfl than dolezal is to the naacp. he’s such an obvious (and deserving) scapegoat it baffles the mind how he still has a job.

    and i hope ted wells charged enough to last a lifetime, because he may never be hired again — that steaming turd of a report is paper-thin, and it defiles the word “independent,” goodell’s arm is so far up that puppet’s butt roger’s cuff links pop out his ears.

  123. audge86 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:32 AM
    No, the NFL has no right to the personal property of players. Not even to the records

    ******************************

    Actually they do have the right to demand any phone or communications device that may have corporate information on them.

    Black and White corporate law.

  124. There is NO WAY that the NFLPA would even allow Brady to give up his cell phone, even if he wanted to.

    They do not want the precedent to be set that management can demand that a union member must turn over a personally-owned electronic device at the whim of management. This is NOT in the CBA. Cooperation does NOT involve forfeiting your civil rights.

    It is one thing if that device was supposedly used in a CRIME but another altogether if it is just for the purposes of management conducting a witch hunt against that union member.

  125. The New England Patriots are a vile, sickening, sham of an organization. I will never forgive them until Brady, Kraft, the coaching staff and their fans apologize publicly for their reprehensible conduct.

  126. johnodocks says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:15 PM
    Brady wasn’t asked to give over his phone. He was asked to allow his lawyers to go through his phone and allow the investigators to see the relevant texts. He refused. So it’s the NFL’s right to take that into consideration.
    And for others who say they already had the two employees’ texts, there are others to whom he could have sent texts concerning the deflating of footballs. And maybe those texts could help exonerate the two employees who lost their jobs because of this, remember them? But I guess Brady feels he’s done enough for them, you know, with the signed memorabilia he’s given them.
    ********************
    John you are correct, and what the Patriot fans are ignoring is that Brady wasn’t suspended for cheating. He was suspended for failing to cooperate with the investigation.

  127. RE LEE says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:09 PM
    Goodell will do what he stupidly does and then gets chastised by a judge. Hope Goodell sticks with his punishment for Brady so Brady’s lawyers can drag him to court. Brady did not cheat to win 4 SBs. It’s awesome how he consistently wins, with or without the manufactured scandals in the salary cap era. Goodell thinks he’ll win against Brady? Jets don’t win against Brady.
    ******************************

    No basis for a court to take a look at this. This isn’t Ray Rice or AP or anything else.

    The NFLPA gave the rights to review and punish on field infractions to the commisher. They have never taken it away or fought for it.

    If they don’t fight for the right, they can’t come back later and say Goodell doesn’t have the right.

  128. Haters Hate – that’s what they do.

    They have nothing positive to say about their own team, so they try to bring down someone else’s team.
    But they can’t we have it all-
    Kraft – GOAT
    Belichick – GOAT
    Brady – GOAT
    4 Super Bowl Victories
    Brady – 3 SB MVPs
    Rings
    Banners
    and oh yeah
    Fans – GOAT!

    Have pity on the hatters; like you would on sad ex.

  129. steelercrazy says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:20 PM
    Still waiting for Brady to cooperate. Waiting……….

    And don’t compare him to Brett Favre’s non suspension since Favre’s actions had no effect on games.

    Ravens should be the most angry since the deflated balls likely effected that tight game.
    ______________________
    According the Well’s report then nothing happened to the balls. All deflation fell with in the Ideal Gas Law. So no impact on the game.

  130. “letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:18 PM
    You are ignoring every other piece of evidence. Im saying even if we take out AEI and Wells reports of PSI before and after game, etc…. ”


    If you take out the PSI evidence we don’t know if the balls were under the legal PSI. You can’t take out the PSI evidence. He’s accused of having employees put the balls below the legal limits. If there is no evidence of the PSI of the balls there is nothing else to discucss.

    You can’t just throw out the science

  131. So if nothing happened…are the two indefinite suspensions vacated as well? Haven’t seen Kraft jumping to their defense lately. If Brady isn’t man enough to own up to what he did then he should just retire and admire his rings.

  132. denverdude7, please read up on the facts. So many critics here did not read the Wells Report or the AEI analysis, or ANYTHING that was not spoon-fed to them by ESPN.

    Brady never denied knowing Jastremski. He denied recognizing the name Jim McNally, the other guy’s name, because (guess what) nobody called him by that name! His nickname is “Bird”.

    Brady interacted with McNally rarely (he only worked game days at home) and thought that his name was “Burt”. So Brady knew who he was, by face, and never denied that. He said he was not familiar with the name “Jim McNally” because he WASN’T. He did not know him by his real name. Simple as that.

  133. johnheisman says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:19 PM

    your focusing on one aspect, and its all he said she said. No one knows exact conditions the balls were pumped up in. What we know is that the balls were refilled at half time, and after the game they were the same. So weather didnt affect them in 2nd half. You choose to ignore the other glaring faults in this such as the texts which in no way shape or form are being ‘misconstrued’. We are debating “deflategate” and in the begining of the yr the ball boy referred to himself as “the deflator”. Pretty cut and dry, im guessing Kraft has no idea who these two fools are just like brady claims not to, she he cant tell us this is their ‘inside joke’. Brady refusing to show phone is a HUGE mistake on his part. Raven said they thought pats deflated ball, then all of this comes to fruition- pretty funny how that works. Brady never speaks to the ball boy but calls him personally 6 times after the game???? Pats fans are really banking on a series of the biggest coincidences i have ever seen.

  134. #1 – The EVIDENCE contained in the Wells Report EXONERATES Brady as is

    This includes the Laws of Physics and the “best recollection” of the Lead Official who stated he used the gauge that showed NO DEFLATION OCCURRED

    #2 – As the Wells Report evidence documents that NO DEFLATION occurred, there’s NO JUSTIFICATION for Brady to need to share his texts or emails, or more so, be fined or suspended

    #3 – When the circumstantial evidence of McNally and Jastremski discussing ball preparation activities is viewed in the context of the NY Giants Skiba Brothers extensive preparation (documented by the NY Times “Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making” story of 11/23/13) it is clear that the only wrongdoing related to football PSI was by the Officials in (coincidentally) a Jets home game where the ball pressure was a whopping 16 PSI

    #4 – The “smoking gun” that Brady only knew McNally by his nickname Bird, is itself a Red Herring illustrated by the fact that any PFT member would also fail to know the REAL name of any other member here.

    Slamdunk case

    Give back the Patriots draft picks while we’re at it

  135. whitetrash69 says: Jun 16, 2015 11:42 AM
    I can’t wait for this story to end and I’m not even a Pats fan. The Pats ruined the Super Bowl, draft, and off season for NFL fans this past year.

    ——————

    The Patriots didn’t create the media firestorm that consumed the run up to the Super Bowl, the draft and the off season so far, that was started by ESPN and other media outlets reporting leaks from the NFL. If anyone ruined the events mentioned, it was Roger Goodell and his underlinings through lies and media manipulation to prove the Patriots were guilty of something rather than find out the truth.

    If you want to see how a sports governing body should handle (suspected) wrongdoing, take a long look at Major League Baseball and the crime committed by the St Louis Cardinals. The news broke today and it was the first anyone heard of it – there were no leaks and they haven’t announced any punishment; they are staying silent and letting the FBI do the work.

    Roger Goodell could learn a lot from Rob Manfred.

  136. Hey Tom Shady

    Better get the bon bons ready for your time on the couch. Don’t mind while we put an asterisk next to your titles as a consequence of your cheating ways.

  137. Poetic justice, Brady winning Super Bowl 49 (the greatest super bowl in NFL history), being named MVP, and getting to watch Goodell cower off the celebratory podium.

  138. denverdude7 says: Jun 16, 2015 1:27 PM
    Here’s something else we all should find dubious and contradictory…
    When DeflateGate first began to gather momentum I recall Tom Brady stating that he didn’t even know who Jastremski and McNally were.

    ——————

    He said he didn’t know Jim McNally, but neither did Tedy Bruschi until he was shown a photo and then said something along the lines of ‘That’s Bird’. No one in the locker room called him McNally or Jim as he was known to everyone as Bird. I believe Brady was on record during Ted Wells’ investigation as referring to him as ‘Bert’ or ‘Burt’, possibly because he misheard someone saying ‘Bird’ 15 years ago and thought that was his name.

    Jim McNally’s job was to deal with the officials, not with Brady. After all, he was the locker room attendant.

  139. The evidence exonerating Brady is now so overwhelming that Goodell’s character and honor will be put to a test.

    Will Goodell (1) announce that the NFL drops all charges against Brady, vacates the decision against the Patriots, restores the team’s draft choices and repeals the fine or (2) will he keep up the ugly charade that has gone on since the AFCCG?

    It is an historic moment for Goodell and the NFL.

  140. People keep saying that Brady repeatedly contacted “the ball boy” after this story broke, and that it is somehow suspicious.

    You haters need to get your facts straight, you’re confusing Jim McNally (the ball boy, who Brady had no documented communications with, ever), and John Jastremski, equipment assistant, who Brady actually contacted, before and after the story broke.

    It’s not unusual for Brady to have communications with Jastremski, but Brady was not in regular contact with McNally, and in fact only knew him by his nickname, “Bird”. There are no texts between Brady and McNally, and no phone calls on record.

  141. @ariani1985,

    You wrote that, “The only thing “dubious” is Brady’s refusal to turn over print out’s of texts between him and the 2 deflator’s to prove his innocence and essentially shut down the entire investigation…..if he was innocent.”

    When a person sends a text to another person, that message is on the phone of both the sender and the receiver. It isn’t necessary to see both phones to know what went back and forth. And, since the NFL investigators had the phones of the two ball attendants, they already had the messages that went back and forth between them and Brady. They didn’t need Brady’s phone.

  142. “disorien says:
    Jun 16, 2015 2:14 PM
    If Brady said the earth was flat, would anyone ignore science and think that it was?”


    No but if Wells said it the fans of 31 teams would believe him, apparently

  143. This was ridiculous. A sting operation run with the skill of 3rd graders. Incredibly embarrassing but the NFL couldn’t do worse. Well, then the “Wells report” comes out. Four months of work, $5 million in charges from Wells, and a bunk scripted “Report.” A sting operation that the “Wells report” shows to be a complete farce. Goodell actually doing a great job of fogging the issues that were front burner; concussions, the pathetic handling of the Ray Rice KO, the spousal abuses, PED use and a lot more. Tying up the media with a controversy over the PSI of footballs has been great for him. Mike Kensil is getting his revenge on Bill Belichick even though he actually looks like an idiot. By not getting fired, hiding behind Goodell, and standing behind a pathetically inept legal investigation, Mike Kensil has really come out shining. Riding the backs of Hatriot nation has been easy.
    It’s actually great comedy and watching fans of the other 31 teams-united as Hateriot nation-weeping as if they lost children, is pure gold. Making the Superbowl and NFL Championship even sweeter. Jets fans, who haven’t seen their team in the Superbowl since before man landed on the moon, become even more pathetic than normal. “Deflategate” is something for Jets fans and many others to hang onto. Beautiful.

  144. tigerlilac says:
    Jun 16, 2015 2:11 PM
    The evidence exonerating Brady is now so overwhelming that Goodell’s character and honor will be put to a test.

    Unfortunately as Commissioner Goodell has failed that test repeatedly, but the owners, including Kraft, just do not care as long as they are making money.

  145. “Will one blind homer pats fan explain the text messages to me, then maybe I can understand your logic. How are they not damming?”

    Since the footballs were at exactly the pressures we would expect them to be, how _are_ they damning?

    One thing you need to concede is that at no point do the messages talk about cheating. You can say deflating is weight loss or that it’s about deflating footballs. But they don’t say anything like “make sure you take care of the balls after you give them to the ref” or anything like that.

    A text from last May is supposed to be evidence of an ongoing conspiracy. But we also no the footballs weren’t tampered with during the Jets game, which was five months later. The Wells report isn’t even coherent. It doesn’t present a theory of what actually happened, it just throws out a hodgepodge of accusations that aren’t even consistent with each other.

    They say that there was a pattern of doing this that had been going on for some time. They also make a big point about how this was the first time McNally left the officials’ locker room with the game balls. Those two arguments contradict each other!

    And that doesn’t even address the lies told in the scientific report. As AEI explained, Exponent tried to pull a fast one with the statistical model. They said the result came from one model, but AEI got different results with that model. Basically Exponent said that the choice of gauge didn’t matter, but AEI said that it mattered a lot.

    And really, that should be obvious. The most the Wells report could say is that, if we assume the officials used the non-log gauge before the game started, then it appears that the Pats deflated the balls about 0.4 psi. Which, coincidentally is exactly the difference between the two gauges.

    Sorry, but it seems far more likely that the ref used the gauge _that he remembers using_ and that no cheating happened than that the ref misremembered which gauge he used and the Pats chose to deflate an amount of air to exactly match the difference between the two gauges!

    Seriously, why would _anybody_ deflate a football 0.4 psi? It’s a stupid conspiracy theory.

  146. dukeearl says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:29 PM

    audge86 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:32 AM
    No, the NFL has no right to the personal property of players. Not even to the records

    ******************************

    Actually they do have the right to demand any phone or communications device that may have corporate information on them.

    Black and White corporate law.

    —–

    No. Absolutely not. They only have the right to company issued phones.

    Personal phones require a subpoena.

  147. themanfromtheblacklodge says:
    Jun 16, 2015 1:57 PM

    The Patriots didn’t create the media firestorm that consumed the run up to the Super Bowl, the draft and the off season so far, that was started by ESPN and other media outlets reporting leaks from the NFL. If anyone ruined the events mentioned, it was Roger Goodell and his underlinings through lies and media manipulation to prove the Patriots were guilty of something rather than find out the truth.

    Roger Goodell could learn a lot from Rob Manfred.
    ————————————————

    Let’s go back in time, shall we? The week before the Super Bowl. After the initial burst of Deflategate hysteria, the NFL pretty much agrees to put it to bed until after the big game.

    And who steps off the plane, both lips blazing, to demand that big apology? Hint: he owns a football team based in New England.

    It was Kraft who stirred up a storm then, not the league, not the media. He just wouldn’t shut up. There’d have been a lot less of a flap if he hadn’t opened his mouth. Oh, and you think that helped his cause with Goodell any? Or Brady’s?

    Kraft stuck the bull — then you’re all amazed why Goodell acts the way he does.

    Seriously, the bubble world some of you Pats fans live in is amazing.

    Goodell isn’t the only guy who could learn a little something from Manfred.

  148. What I would like to know is what did Goodell tell Kraft that made him fold like a cheap accordion? Also Goodell is not dumb enough to show his entire hand to Kraft , just enough to make him see the futility of fighting the ruling. We’re I a Pat fan I would be very worried about what Goodell has up his sleeve. Remember at this time last year Goodell was embarrassed by his handling of the Rice affair after grossly misreading the publics feelings about domestic abuse. He may be a putz at times, but he would not repeat the same mistake. Also remember Kraft had no support from the owners which leads even more credence to Goodell having an ace in the hole.

    I don’t care who wins and will be sad to see this mess over because it’s really fun to watch the Pats Brats make such fools of themselves on a daily basis…..and it’s the same fools every day…quite amusing.

  149. Nothing and I mean nothing is done to the footballs in the NFL without knowledge of the QB. I love what Brady has done to our organization, but if he thinks we are buying his denial of his involvement in the deflating the footballs then he is mistaken. Especially after he admits in a radio interview that he likes under inflated footballs.

    -Pats fan

  150. Balls being deflated stopped being the main issue once Brady lied and refused to cooperate with the investigation. That’s why he’s suspended. That’s why his suspension will stand no matter what science they quote.

  151. ” What we know is that the balls were refilled at half time, and after the game they were the same. So weather didnt affect them in 2nd half. ”

    This is the kind of thing that haters have to rely on. No, gas laws didn’t stop operating in the second half. The gas law isn’t some wild theory cooked up by the Patriots to hide cheating. It’s been known, literally, since roughly the year 1700. When a ball filled with air cools, the air pressure drops. When it heats up, the air pressure increases.

    If you look at the post-game measurements, you’ll see more evidence that supports the Pats. Namely, the pressures in the Pats’ footballs _increased_ from the time they were gauged at halftime to the time they were gauged after the game. The only way that’s possible is if they were warmer _after the game_ than they were at halftime. But the pressure in the Colts’ footballs _decreased_. That means the post-game temperature was _colder_ than the temperature at which the had been tested at halftime.
    If we assume that the eight balls after the game were at roughly the same temperature to each other, than that means that this temperature was _between_ the temperature of the Pats’ balls at halftime and the temperature of the Colts’ balls at halftime.

    That only makes sense if a significant amount of time passed between the two sets of gaugings at halftime. What else happened at halftime? The Pats’ balls were inflated and tested to make sure they were now at 13.0 psi. That probably took several minutes. And _then_ the Colts’ footballs were tested, having been warming up in the officials’ locker room for 10 minutes. So they were warmer.

    And since they were warmer, they showed significantly less loss of air pressure than the Pats’ footballs did.

    The Exponent appendix is based on the lie that all the footballs were gauged at roughly the same time. If the NFL were interested in the truth and not in leading a lynch mob, they’d see what the obvious explanation here is. No cheating happened.

    And everybody who understands the science has known that for some time. Indeed, one suspects that the NFL knew that from the week all of this started. When they leaked information about this, they deliberately low balled the air pressures to 10.5 instead of 11.5, in order to make a Gas Law explanation impossible. As soon as I saw the real values, I knew that not only did the Gas Law explain the loss of air pressure, but that the NFL was trying to steamroll the Pats, for some incomprehensible reason.

  152. oh you silly Pat’s fans will never come around and thats OK… but dont sit around and try tell people without ties to the Pats that they havent cheated thats silly and you’re wasting breath… you cheat and you suffer the consequences and move on ….. quit crying and just move on already

  153. “Actually they do have the right to demand any phone or communications device that may have corporate information on them.

    Black and White corporate law.”

    That’s a laughable assertion.

    We still have a Bill of Rights in this country. Corporations don’t have the right to seize private records based solely on the theory that the records “may have corporate information on them.”

    Even the government needs a warrant to look at a private phone!

  154. All the Patriots have to do to win the appeal of this bogus suspension is to point out that Aaron Rodgers has admitted ON THE RECORD to over-inflating his footballs. That is cheating, isn’t it? Aaron Rodgers tried to pull a fast one on the refs by pushing through his over-inflated footballs. So where is the outrage, where is the Ted Wells report?

    Brady hasn’t even admitted to doing anything wrong. There is no evidence he ordered anyone to stick a pin in a football. Assuming there is nothing on his cell phone, what exactly does the NFL have? It’s not even apparent that the Patriot footballs were illegal. The NFL used faulty gauges, didn’t measure all the Colt footballs and left the Colts footballs they did measure in a warm room where they would be more likely to be more inflated when measured.

    The NFL has botched this in so many ways that it’s laughable. Goodell should be forced out over this mess. This was clearly a sting. And the penalty had nothing to do with deflating balls and everything to do with going after a team that everyone hates and it was Goodell’s chance to show he can be a tough guy after Ray Rice and that he can go after his buddy Bob Kraft.

  155. jchipwood says: I can’t remember why is it that the patriots have been docked a couple first round picks in the Belichick era?
    =========================

    The first was because naive and ignorant fans of non-Patriots teams apparently are STILL unaware that signal filming was and is remains legal – but Goodell wanted to dupe you into thinking otherwise to make it look like he was tough

    The second – this circumstance – appears to have been because Mike Kensil, the former President of the Jets at the time Belichick jilted him for the Patriots, had openly boasted he was “going to get” the Patriots in a sting operation

    Unfortunately for Kensil, Goodell & Co., there was NO DEFLATION and Goodell had to have Wells go so far as to deny the Laws of Physics and the “best recollection” of the lead official that there in fact was no deflation

    I only hope the NFLPA can arrange suicide counseling for all non-Patriots fans who REALLY got their hopes up that Brady would be suspended to give other teams a shot at the AFC Championship once in awhile

    They’ve put a TON of time and effort into denying that the Laws of Physics exist and are in for a big letdown

  156. “And Patriots owner Robert Kraft believes that’s exactly what will happen, that Brady will win his appeal and will play Week One.”

    So, Krafty says Shady Brady is innocent, but he accepted the team penalty……
    Makes perfect sense.
    Long Live The *!

  157. “Balls being deflated stopped being the main issue once Brady lied and refused to cooperate with the investigation. ”

    Brady didn’t lie.

    He cooperated with the investigation, except that he wouldn’t turn over his phone. As a legal matter, the NFL cannot punish a player for retaining his privacy rights. The CBA doesn’t allow the league to do that.

    If this makes it to a court, the NFL will be shot down for abusing power.

  158. randomcommenter says: Balls being deflated stopped being the main issue once Brady lied and refused to cooperate with the investigation. That’s why he’s suspended. That’s why his suspension will stand no matter what science they quote.
    ================================

    So let me get this straight. The lead official confirms that his “best recollection” is that there was no deflation, and the Laws of Physics confirm this

    So since nothing happened, why exactly did Brady need to “cooperate” by giving up his civil rights?

    And seeing as no footballs were deflated by other teams in other games, shouldn’t THOSE QBs also have to give up THEIR civil rights to “cooperate” in an investigation regarding something that didn’t happen?

    Perhaps that’s the best solution.

    Suspend ALL the starting QBs in the NFL for 4 games and take away ALL the 1st round picks to make things even, seeing as they didn’t “cooperate” in a scandal that never happened either!

    Now if we can just find out WHO in the NFL front office was leaking false information to make the Patriots look bad – THAT’S the REAL scandal here.

  159. When will the 31 inferior teams to the World Champions be contracted out of the league?

    I am outraged that Patriot Hater’s limp wristed wussy team can stay in the NFL only to get WHOOPED by the World Champions again and again and again and again. What a waste of time.

    It’s time to fold them all and bring in a REAL MAN’s team or two to give the World Champions some real competition for a change.

    What say you Goodell? Do the right thing commish.

  160. trollaikman8 says: Goodell can just get the “deflator” to testify……case closed…4 games + $1M in cash and prizes.
    =================================

    Better yet – let’s get ALL the “deflators” in the NFL to testify.

    Thus far we know that Eli Manning and the Skiba brothers, the “deflators” on the Giants, have a MUCH more extensive football preparation program than the Patriots. (NY Times, 11/23/13 “Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making”)

    I’d love to see the same detailed review of the activities of the “deflators” on every team

    (I’m sure you’re aware that of these NFL equipment managers all routinely deflate and inflate footballs to help break them in, aren’t you?)

  161. Oh, I get it.
    The league goes on and on and on with false leaks during super bowl week, but it’s Kraft’s fault for finally speaking up when he got off the plane in Arizona? Mmkay.

    Where Kraft DID fail, it has to do with him stupidly being so chummy with the commissioner.
    When the chatter became ‘will Goodell punish his “buddy”,
    he was then in a spot where he had to overcompensate with this ridiculous punishment based on…what, I don’t know.
    The footballs naturally deflated in range as to what can be predicted and duplicated in the same elements rather easily.
    This is beyond stupid.

  162. I must admit, this is one crazy story. At the kernel, there is a rule that no one really seems to care or know much about. Yet it creates all of this hullaballoo.

    One thing I am fascinated by is the rampant notion that this is some kind of jurisprudence question. It isn’t. It is an internal corporate matter, with the added wrinkle that it is a union/management thing. The CBA said clearly, Goodell has the right to hear the appeal of these types of rulings. The union may like to change that in the next deal they sign, but for now, that’s it.

    So. What do you think. Telling Goodell that the analysis his team did that lead to the ruling he made is junk therefore he should change his mind … how you think that’s gonna work out for them. Do you really envision Goodell buying that?

  163. Well I guess we now see why Kraft took it on the chin.

    It is easier to take the million fine and loss of 2 picks than lose Brady to being called a cheater.

    A million dollars is nothing compared to the money he will make if Brady plays the first 4 games. And the picks while expensive are nothing compared to being able to say that Brady was innocent so he still has one of the greatest QBs to ever play on his team.

  164. Love the fake Pats fans handles trying to pretend any one believes they’re actually fans of the GOATs

    HA

    To all the bills jets and dolphins fans:

    They could suspend Brady for half the season and the Pats would still win the division.

    Doesn’t that just kill you!

    Pats have more SBs in the last 15 years than the jets bills and dolphins do in the last 50!!!!

    I’d hate em too!

    HAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

    Seachicken fans:

    (28-24)

  165. Rumor has it there will be an owners only conference call to determine the fate of Goodell after this debacle is put to rest and all penalties have been rescinded.

    A certain group of owners are fed up with the self-inflicted embarrassment the league has gone through the past couple years. Roger has made them money, but a trained monkey could too, without all the baggage.

  166. gotta love all the haters that keep bouncing from argument to argument as they get debunked

    now I see that a lot of people are saying that this isn’t an issue about deflating balls but cooperation and brady should have given his phone up.

    well I agree with you, the last 2 NFL fines fro non cooperation are:

    brett favre didn’t give up his phone he was fined 50 000$

    san diego chargers refused to hand over a towel that had evidence of cheating on it, they were caught cheating and not cooperating and they were fined 20 000$

    seems pretty fair and balanced compared to a 4 games suspension, 1 million dollar fine, loss of first and 5th round pick

    brady doesn’t have to give up his phone, there is no evidence against him, and they have the phones of everyone he would have texted.

    and the best part is, they want him to bring further evidence that he didn’t cheat, well that is like asking every nfl player to prove that they didn’t tell the patriots assistants to deflate the ball. kinda hard to prove the non existence of something.

    I want roger goodell to prove he wasn’t involved with the Kennedy assassination, and until such time that he can prove he had zero involvement and prove he didn’t meet Oswald in a dark alley and order the kill, im assuming he is solely responsible for murdering a US president

  167. 1. This is an internal business matter, so things like “innocent until proven guilty” and “burden of proof” mean nothing. If your employer thinks that you’ve done something wrong, and you can’t provide evidence to the contrary, they’re going to take punitive action.

    2. The measuring of the air pressure in the balls was clearly NOT done in a scientific fashion, and the gauges being used were clearly not calibrated to a level of accuracy that could be called scientific. So, you can throw garbage numbers into any equation you’d like, all you’re getting back will be garbage numbers.

    3. Brady WILL have his supension over turned. This has nothing to do with his guilt or his innocence. This has everything to do with Kraft taking the team punishment without a fight so Goodell could look like atough guy still for punishing his buddy/boss.

    4. The only thing more annoying than people trying to “prove” one side of the argument is people trying to “prove” the other. No amount of name calling or arrogant declaration of knowing all the facts based on a three minute Google search makes any of you experts. It isn’t “hating” on the Patriots to believe that the circumstantial evidence points to wrong doing even if the collection of hard evidence was flawed any more than it is just blind homerism to feel that the circumstantial evidence is not enough proof and the hard evidence is flawed.

    5. I’m an actual Steelers fan. I hope Brady does play week one because I enjoy it when the game is played as it should be, with all the stars on the field.

  168. A lot of the haters think there must be things on Brady’s phone that are bad and that the mere fact he won’t turn the phone over is an admission of guilt. They go on to say that all he really had to do was turn over any messages that had to do with deflating a football. Here’s some reasons why that might be a problem
    1) Ted Wells and the NFL on a number of occasions have demonstrated their complete lack of trustworthiness when it comes to using good judgement about “leaking” information, taking things out of context and or twisting words.
    2) E-mails or text messages are notorious for having the ability to be mis-read because context is inherently missing, tonal inflection can’t be heard and body language can’t be seen. So take all this and apply it to a hypothetical circumstance. One of Brady’s team mates sends a message jokingly poking fun at him for deflating the balls. Brady writes back jokingly that he does it all the time and he dose it with a needle up his sleeve in the huddle. Give that text to someone like Wells and it quickly turns from a joke between a couple of guys to an ominous message declaring guilt that would quickly find its way to all sorts of outlets and be declared as the truth.

  169. Does anyone REALLY in their heart of hearts believe that Tom Brady would lay it all out to defend himself against this alleged infraction, which anyone with a brain knows isn’t any significant competitive advantage in the first place? The same Tom Brady, who up until now, the worst things he’s been guilty of are: having a child (who he provides for and is involved with) with a woman he didn’t end up staying with (gasp! That NEVER happens!); defensively putting his feet up to protect himself in a slide coming up toward Ed Reed, a guy he has tremendous respect for, and was probably just guilty of being a little wimpy and a-scared; and…well…not much else besides allowing his wife to dress him funny from time to time. All this, in the wake of Ryan Braun a few years ago, who embarrassed himself by lying and later being exposed? Do you think the PR firm or firms paid for by the Patriots and/or Brady to advise them missed that, and don’t know that the public will be more sympathetic to a contrite, apologetic figure who “just made a mistake” than the guy who lied to everyone’s face? The Patriots and even the personal brand that is Tom Brady are big businesses, and I can tell many of you don’t understand how big business works. The way they came out denying this is almost proof enough. No way would they put themselves out there like that. Kraft was as adamant as anyone, and then all of a sudden, after a weekend with the Good Ole Boys Club, he decides to take won for the squad and let the league “win” to some degree, and I’m sure some hands were shaken promising things regarding Brady’s appeal. I think Kraft is a good dude, and he legit has love for Brady, so this was how he could let Tom defend his good name, while not ruffling feathers with the Billionaire Boys Club and they can all get back to making money, which is all any of them care about at the end of the day.

  170. let me just add this

    by roger goodell asking Brady to come forward with new evidence to prove his innocence is proof that the NFL started with a guilty verdict and worked backwards.

    the reason why democracies run with innocent until proven guilty is because the proof of innocence is impossible.

    can roger goodell prove that he didn’t meet jim McNally in a dark alley and demand the balls deflated

    every single person on the planet cant prove that they didn’t order the deflation of the footballs during the colts game, anyone could have sent a third person to meet McNally on their behalf and good luck proving otherwise.

    guilty until proven innocent, the dictatorship of roger “the fuhrer” goodell lives on.

    hopefully the NFL will get rid of their biggest cancer and fire Goodell, and don’t worry for good ole roger he will have many job opportunities as an advisor to iran, cuba, china and a whole host of other dictatorships

  171. The Pats recovered all three of their fumbles in that playoff game.I am not crying the blues here, the Ravens lost, period.But I will tell you that after the second fumble in that game , I turned to my wife and said I cant believe these fumbles aren’t bouncing at all, first two balls were fumbled from an upright position and hit the field with zero bounce, .Water under now , doesn’t matter, does make me wonder through.

  172. As months turn into weeks and weeks turn into hours and hours turn into minutes the NFL position gets weaker and weaker and Brady gets closer to full exoneration.

    Suck on that haters, its been fun playing with you. Your team will still suck and you can watch yet again New Englands domination.

  173. Suspension supporters:

    So all Brady had to do was turn over his texts and he was home free (if innocent), right? I guess that’s why Wells asked for ALL ADDITIONAL RELEVANT TEXTS in Brady’s possession, rather than a concrete request then….

    Now think about that: they requested all ADDITIONAL texts on Brady’s phone relevant to the investigation – i.e., texts beyond the McNally and Jastremski texts already in their possession, as those qualify as Brady relevant texts already in possesion of the investigative team. This 100% HAS to be the case, as how can the investigation claim that Brady was uncooperative… by not providing texts they ALREADY have?

    The investigation team, not essentially, but quite LITERALLY, demanded that Brady prove a negative (that he doesn’t possess incriminating texts relevant to the investigation) by handing over ALL communications to an entity that had already proven itself unable to contain leaks; he could either do that, or be labelled an uncooperative cheater.

    The investigation team tried to strong arm Brady into providing access, above and beyond that required by the cba, to his own personal data, so they could fish for more data in an attempt to strengthen their very weak case….

  174. People say Brady not turning over his phone makes him guilty. You ever think Brady has other things on his phone that he doesn’t want to get leaked out like personal family information. The NFL can say that nothing wont get leaked but every year someone’s wonderlic test scores gets out when they are supposed to stay private. Could he still be guilty yes but I understand him not turning over his phone.

  175. Brady will turn in his phone when Rey Lewis turns in his white suit to Atlanta Police

  176. To all the haters who are banking on Brady being out 4 games thereby giving your team a chance. Forget it.

    After Brady loses the appeal with Goodell Two Shoes simply because if he finds for Brady he says all the junk Wells came up with is just that…it will end up in court where clearly the CBA rules will be found to have been violated in many instances. The court will throw out the suspension and rectify the wrong done to Saint Brady of Foxboro.

  177. davemcnealy says:
    Jun 16, 2015 3:36 PM

    Plain and simple, Wells requested information pertinent to the investigation, brady DID NOT cooperate. If i was being accused of cheating, id cooperate, period. And yes they already had info from the ball boys phones, so brady has 2 reasons to not give Wells his info- #1 brady gives them something they missed and it hurts him, or #2 brady has texts to BB or even Kraft about cheating and he obviously cannot hand that over! According to CBA did Brady HAVE to give the info over? no. But then again, if my g/f asks to see my phone, i dont HAVE to show her, but if im innocent ill let her look b/c i have nothing to hide.

  178. Pats fans.

    Using ALL CAPS doesn’t mean your sewer drenched QB and team are any more innocent.

    You’ve been caught cheating – again.

    Documented Serial Cheaters.

    I love how upset you all get.

    Just like Wells was going to exonerate you and give you Indy picks.

    Just like Kraft would sue.

    Just like deflator is weight loss.

    Just like the fumble numbers are coincidence.

    Your team cheats and just like Armstrong and Arod and Sosa, everyone knows it.

  179. jchipwood says:
    Jun 16, 2015 11:23 AM
    Turn over your cell phone if you don’t have anything to hide and it would fix this whole mess. But apparently Brady likes drama or he is hiding something and it’s a lot more cheating than just ball inflation in New England.

    ——————————————–

    Why? If he does and they don’t find anything, you”ll just accuse him of wiping the phone. See? He can’t win here. This is why he’s refusing to play the game by going for an all-out exoneration. The NFL better have something more up their sleeve than the Wells report if they hope to make this suspension stick.

  180. derekleblanc says:
    Jun 16, 2015 3:49 PM

    Good lord can ppl stop talking that nonsense? Brady had zero worries about leaked info. Wells didnt even want to take control over brady’s phone. They said “let YOUR team look at it and give us any info pertinent to this case”. That was it. No worries about things being leaked or personal info being seen. At all. Brady’s camp turned this into setting a “precedent”, ummmmm if your innocent and cooperating is setting a ‘bad precedent’ then we are in a terrible world. No innocent man hides any information at all. If i was cheating on my g/f and she asked to see my phone u better believe id use the same technique as brady’s camp- turn it around. Say its setting a ‘bad precedent’ or tell my g/f i cannot believe she would invade my privacy, or that she would even doubt me. But i would never show my phone, b/c ofcourse im guilty

  181. hooded12 says: “…The caveat to all of this is that Goodell has fabricated a scandal..”

    I think you’re right. Tom Brady is on record as saying he prefers his footballs to be at the lowest legal limit for PSI. That is legal, and fine. But it opens up opportunity for this whole “deflategate” garbage. So, yes, I think Goodell sees this as an opportunity to 1.) “protect the shield” which looks good to his bosses and 2.) create intrigue, which will keep people talking about the NFL all offseason and should, in theory, drum up viewership for the first few Patriots games. And that always is good in the Owners eyes.

    BUT, I think Tom Brady would have to be in on the scheme. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that back-room talks between Goodell and Kraft have led to a plan that basically drags Brady and the Patriots through the mud for awhile and, after all penalties are removed via this appeal, there will be nothing left but a bunch of people even more ready for another excellent season of glorious football. It’s a win-win for everybody if you look at it from the perspective that most of the NFL football watching world already considered the patriots to be cheaters after the spygate thing.

    disclaimer: Brady had a great 4th quarter. Patriots won the Superbowl. Good on them.

  182. You know who’s been debunked in all of this since February?

    You Cheats fans. Said they would be found not guilty and exonerated in wells report and goodell would apologize to Kraft

    Nope

    KRaft will sue the league

    Nope

    Brady will be exonerated…next then sue

    Let’s see what happens.

    I know why we have a real egg shortage. The pats fans are using them as a new beauty treatment

  183. Brady’s either not too smart or got bad advice. If he had just said from the beginning that it was common knowledge that he preferred the psi on the lower end of the legal limits, he’s totally off the hook. Sure that would be viewed as throwing the equipment guys under the bus, but they were going to get run over no matter what ensued.

  184. alltee says: gotta love all the haters that keep bouncing from argument to argument as they get debunked
    ======================

    Exactly. Very entertaining…

    With the Laws of Physics and statement of the lead official that NO deflation occurred they move to the “well Brady didn’t cooperate”

    Cooperate on WHAT? Nothing happened!!!

    The FIRST piece of business is to determine whether abnormal deflation occurred. We know it didn’t – thus the NFL “investigation” should have been over

    But of course Wells wanted to go fishing – and Brady was smart enough to say “enough”!

    Then they move to McNally and Jastremski sending texts about football preparation back in October. So? Eli Manning and the Skiba Brothers actually went beyond texts and described their process to the NY Times! Every team employs guys just like them.

    But again, what are we investigating? Nothing happened!!! The only inflation violation was conducted by the Officials in the Jets game when the balls were 16 PSI

    Then they’ll go for the “Brady lied about knowing McNally”

    Um, no – if Brady was asked about Bird he’d have answered the question. The fact that Brady doesn’t know Bird’s real name is no more odd than the fact that I don’t know YOUR real name!

    Man, jealous Patriots fans REALLY are desperate to convince themselves the Patriots success comes from cheating!

  185. unitas19 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 3:35 PM
    The Pats recovered all three of their fumbles in that playoff game.I am not crying the blues here, the Ravens lost, period.But I will tell you that after the second fumble in that game , I turned to my wife and said I cant believe these fumbles aren’t bouncing at all, first two balls were fumbled from an upright position and hit the field with zero bounce, .Water under now , doesn’t matter, does make me wonder through.

    It was 7 degrees outside with a wind chill factor…nothing bounces in this type of weather.

  186. “When they leaked information about this, they deliberately low balled the air pressures to 10.5 instead of 11.5, in order to make a Gas Law explanation impossible. As soon as I saw the real values, I knew that not only did the Gas Law explain the loss of air pressure, but that the NFL was trying to steamroll the Pats, for some incomprehensible reason.”

    This cannot be overstated – the NFL has not acted in good faith, and the letter they sent to the Patriots, and their failure to correct the erroneous Mortensen report, are proof positive of that. The Mortensen report made it clear to everyone that cheating had occurred, because the pressure reported could not be accounted for otherwise. When that turns out to be a lie, it comes out at the same time as Wells pronounces them “guilty,” and that’s all that people – who have been conditioned to expect guilt from everything that the NFL did – see or hear.

    The NFL office has not acted in good faith, and Wells did not act in good faith.

    And there is no evidence of any infraction having taken place. There’s circumstantial evidence to suggest that McNally deflated the balls, IFF the balls were deflated, but since the evidence shows that they weren’t, it just evidence of two guys flapping their gums, as it were…

  187. Marshawn Lunch says: Tom Brady is on record as saying he prefers his footballs to be at the lowest legal limit for PSI.
    ==========================

    Actually according to the texts between McNally and Jastremski, they state that Brady wanted his footballs at 13 psi – and he was PISSED when the OFFICIALS over inflated to the beyond the level Aaron Rodgers tries to sneak past the officials

    The officials (perhaps not coincidentally in the Jets game) cheated by going to a whopping 16 PSI, well beyond their own parameters

    (perhaps to place Brady at a disadvantage over the Jets per Mike Kensil? Wells said he was going to investigate internal bias – but then never did… fishy..)

    I’m willing to believe that for a cold wet day Brady would prefer to have them at 12.5 PSI – but your statement that he’s on record wanting them at the lowest possible level is wrong

    The only “on the record” statement we have from the texts is that Brady prefers 13.0 PSI

    These guys take their jobs just as seriously as the Skiba Brothers do for Eli Manning (see “Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making from the NY Times of 11/23/13) and presumably all the “deflators” employed by all other NFL teams (they all deflate and inflate the balls numerous times to break them in, similar to what the Skiba Brothers do)

    They take their jobs so seriously and protect the footballs so religiously that they keep the footballs with them at all times – just as the Skiba Brothers say they do (which once again is consistent with the notion of bringing footballs into the men’s room lest someone take them)

    But again, there is no “scheme” for Brady to be in on… no improper deflation occurred. Brady expects his footballs ready just like Eli Manning does – that’s not a scheme.

  188. Pat’s haters keep proving their stupidity. “Just turn over your phone”. If he takes this to court, he knows he will have to turn over his phone. Why give it to a hack like Wells.
    Will haters please tell me why the fired ball boys have not spoken up if they were told to deflate the balls after the refs measured them. They were fired, they have nothing to lose by saying what “haters” want to think is the truth.
    It amazes me how people believe that Walt Anderson didn’t right down the PSI numbers of both teams footballs but when he spoke to Wells , several weeks later, he could could recall the exact measurements of the 24 footballs used by both teamsnumber. Wow, that man has a photographic memory I guess.
    Anderson’s photographic memory couldn’t remember which of the 2 valves he used to test the PSI.
    All you fall back on is a deflator nickname.

    Will the haters answer these questions and most importantly,like I first stated, if he takes this to court, his phones will HAVE to be turned over and so will the Phones of NFL employees involved in this witch hunt. The court of Wells is not to be trusted but a real US Court will be honest and not have an agenda. In the end, Goodell will admit, Brady never told employees to deflate footballs after the refs handle them. He is smart enough to know that the league office phones will contain information on this set up led by Mike Kensil. I hope you haters never serve on jury duty. You have no ability to listen to facts, You only hear what you want to hear.

  189. It amazes me how so many fans here think that in all of sports, only the Patriot’s are guilty of cheating. Particularly Broncos, Dolphins and Steelers fans. If you don’t think all team cheat in some way or another, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

  190. “If he had just said from the beginning that it was common knowledge that he preferred the psi on the lower end of the legal limits, he’s totally off the hook.”

    He did say that. In his press conference dealing with the issue back after the story broke.

    ” I like them at the way that I like them, which is at 12.5. To me, that’s a perfect grip for the football. ”

    So, is he “totally off the hook”?

  191. Just dragging yourself and your organization through the mud. Something that the improved AFCE defense will do to you when you get back on the field.

  192. I mostly agree with steeltroll. I’m not as convinced on the deliberateness, that may not be a real word, on Brady’s part but after the tongue lashing that the minions got is it possible that they’d make sure Mr. Brady was always happy with the ball? The reason we don’t have a text telling these guys to go under the 12.5 PSI is it likely doesn’t exist. The report tells me they can’t, for sure, confirm or deny anything illicit happened. And as someone who has worked in and around health clubs the deflator thing wouldn’t be the first time I’ve heard it used like that. Not sure I buy it in this case 100% as it’s not a widely used term but it’s not impossible.

  193. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 4:01 PM

    “Plain and simple, Wells requested information pertinent to the investigation, brady DID NOT cooperate.”

    Pertinent: relevant or applicable to a particular matter; apposite.

    Now please explain to me, mr. objectivity, how exactly does one provide information relevant to a particular matter… that possibly didn’t even happen??? I mean, that IS what the investigation was for, right? To rule on the plausibility of “Deflategate” being a conspiracy to illegally deflate footballs, correct? That means that, from the beginning, Wells must operate under the supposition that two scenarios are plausible; these scenarios being:

    1. Brady and company intentionally broke the rules, or
    2. No rules were intentionally broken

    With a large vocal majority of users on this site no longer trying to defend the science of the Wells’ Report, and even some outright admitting that the science can be neglected due to its inaccuracies, how do you defend punishing someone for “not cooperating” at that point in time, while possessing the knowledge of ALL these extenuating circumstances?

    If you concede that the science is shoddy, you concede that they had no case based on concrete, replicable facts; therefore, the entire case is based on three things:

    1. Confusing nickname references
    2. A lack of enthusiasm to provide access to private information on Brady’s part
    3. An pre-existent conclusion (assumption) of guilt.

    That’s the key here: the entire report started from the base point of Brady being guilty. If that weren’t so, and Wells DID INDEED proceed with the supposition that both scenarios were possible, they wouldn’t have found him guilty based MOSTLY (and if you concede the shoddiness of the science, almost entirely) on the fact that he didn’t willingly divulge information that DOESN’T EXIST.

    I’ll repeat: if, and only IF, Brady is innocent, no “pertinent texts” even exist. This is because, if Brady is innocent, the entire conspiracy didn’t even occur. So again, please explain to me, how does one provide information regarding an event that didn’t even take place?

  194. Actually they do have the right to demand any phone or communications device that may have corporate information on them.

    Black and White corporate law.

    *************************************
    Actually, you are incorrect. Not on a personal phone. Company/corporate issued phone, absolutely.

  195. @ davemcnealy says: Jun 16, 2015 5:03 PM
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    1) Simple answer: address all questions by investigative team, including those arising after the initial interview. Also, release phone. Many people claim he doesn’t have to do this…which is correct. But not doing so translates to “not cooperating” & suggests there is something that he is hiding. All defendant minded people in the crowd will site legal reasons he might not do this…but they are ignoring the CBA which the NFLPA agreed to & states player non-cooperation with investigations is suspendable by up to 4 games…to be determined solely by Goodell.

    2) The “growing chorus” you refer to are either paid agents of the Patriots or vocal Fans of the Patriots. There hasn’t been a single reputable source, in the absence of Kraft’s influence, to support the Patriots.

    3) You are inaccurate in your 3rd statement. There was sufficient evidence of his complicity in the intention & activity of cheating as proven by the text messages. The whole case is built on circumstantial evidence, which taken together meets the minimum burden requirement, as stated in the Wells Report, “More Likely Than Not”. There are a lot of people who don’t understand the law or how this phrase has Legal impact, and for those people I will state that is the Laws Burden of Proof requirement to be found liable in a non-criminal civil case. Obviously, Pats fans believe there should be No Reason Doubt…which if you ask me, that requirement is also clearly met.

    In the end, they are guilty and everyone knows it. Lawyers can try to spin this however they want…but his guilt is Proven. End of Story.

  196. Wells investigators could simply asked the ball boys if Brady asked them to deflate the balls. Nowhere in the report does it say that they did. Instead they twisted the ball boys words through their texts to lamely implicate Brady. Remember Brady asked the ballboys to show the rule to the referees on the correct psi so much so that ball boys were angry at Brady. All this witch hunt and malice was a concerted effort to stop the Patriots from reaching the SB. All you haters just eat up the horse apples that Wells served you. Must be yummy after eating crow the Pats served you.

  197. dumbaseinstien says: That headline is a perfect description of Brady’s own comments regarding his guilt….
    ====================================

    Um – he hasn’t made any comments, as noted right here in PFT… he’s waiting til his appeal.

    Care to elaborate?

    We really can’t wait for your warped Patriots obsessed rant

    The irony of course is that, as confirmed by AEI (which, though you refuse to believe it, has no relationship with the Robert Kraft Foundation – and is instead the hand picked firm of respected former Commissioner Tagliabue, the evidence IN the Wells Report exonerates Brady

    Wells just inexplicably has determined the balls were deflated when the Laws of Physics and Best Recollection of the Lead Official say there was NONE

  198. Patsies and their fans forever linked to cheating. The denial has been an added bonus. Witch hunt? Lol

  199. Call me crazy, but don’t Goodell and Wells actually have to show that the footballs were deflated before they can penalize Brady for not cooperating into an investigation involving deflated footballs?

    The crux of the Wells Report is this:

    “The statement of the lead official and the Laws of Physics show that no deflation occurred, so we’re just going to assume the opposite and suspend Brady!”

    The funny thing is, Wells openly ADMITS this – accepting that the “best recollection” of the lead official is that he used the gauge showing no deflation – but he’s just openly going to ignore that and assume it’s the opposite!!!

    This is going to be fun watching the haters wretch when this is overturned and Brady misses no games!

  200. kev86 says:
    Jun 16, 2015 6:56 PM

    Patsies and their fans forever linked to cheating. The denial has been an added bonus. Witch hunt? Lol
    _______________________________
    You have the right to attack the Patriot’s because your team has never cheated? Another Glass house fan

  201. This is what I want. I want the NFL to make all transcripts from the Wells report public (except for personal matters that have no impct). They stated they would be open and fair and have yet to do that. This would include all interviews with executives from the NFL and other teams. If we, the paying public, demand that from all 32 markets, they will be forced to. Then we can determine if there was a bias, the length of cooperation, what data was omitted. I think at that point we all could come to a consensus opinion as to the validity of their claim or if this was a sting. Let it all come out and we can finally move on.

  202. dumbaseinstien says:
    Jun 16, 2015 6:50 PM

    “3) You are inaccurate in your 3rd statement. There was sufficient evidence of his complicity in the intention & activity of cheating as proven by the text messages. The whole case is built on circumstantial evidence, which taken together meets the minimum burden requirement, as stated in the Wells Report, “More Likely Than Not”.”

    The entire case is built upon circumstantial evidence and a report that, not only can’t prove that the balls were deliberately deflated, but more likely than not proves that they WEREN’T. Without proof that there was even a crime, what good is circumstantial evidence? It’s like having a guy at the scene of the crime during the murder… but you can’t even prove there was a murder. Circumstantial evidence is useless if you can’t even prove there was a circumstance.

    Sure, an employee going into the bathroom with regulation footballs and then coming out with them well below regulation would be pretty solid circumstantial evidence…. IF YOU COULD EVEN PROVE THAT HAPPENED. The problem with that circumstantial evidence is that the officials waited until AFTER half a game was played to measure the balls; even then, when they DID finally measure them, they were (when using solid science) well within the expected range of deflation. As it stands, there is no logical reason to conclude that McNally was doing anything other than taking a leak. You don’t understand that without the science, the Wells’ Report is essentially useless; all of its’ conclusions are based on the presupposition that the crime really happened, and that the science effectively proves that assertion….

    Without the science legitimizing the reports’ findings, everything else is essentially white noise.

    “Obviously, Pats fans believe there should be No Reason Doubt…which if you ask me, that requirement is also clearly met.”

    This quote, along with your “answers” #1 and 2, prove that you’re not objective in the least. No one, not even the MOST ARDENT Patriots hater with an *ounce* of objectivity would claim what you just did. Additionally, you clearly have not read much of the Wells’ Report at all, as you’re not as knowledgeable on the matter as you think.

  203. Most valuable Cheaters award …..The envelope please. Yes …people hate cheaters.

  204. For those keeping score, the haters are in a standing 8 count

    An independent firm has confirmed that the scientific evidence in the Wells Report ITSELF shows that NO DEFLATION OCCURRED

    This is corroborated by the “best recollection” of the lead official

    Wells and the Haters simply assume the OPPOSITE of what science and the lead official say so they can convince themselves that footballs deflated when they did not

    They correctly surmised most NFL fans are gullible enough to go along with them

    All those who think that two equipment managers texting about football preparation is proof of “guilt” better take a moment to read the NY Times article from 11/23/13 “Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making” detailing all the work that the Skiba Brothers engage in, and noting that they NEVER leave prepared footballs unattended (like, for example – bringing them into the Mens roomwith them)

    The haters are going to have a VERY tough time when this ruling is overturned and Brady is playing in Week 1

  205. whispersd says:
    Jun 16, 2015 2:23 PM

    And really, that should be obvious. The most the Wells report could say is that, if we assume the officials used the non-log gauge before the game started, then it appears that the Pats deflated the balls about 0.4 psi. Which, coincidentally is exactly the difference between the two gauges.

    Sorry, but it seems far more likely that the ref used the gauge _that he remembers using_ and that no cheating happened than that the ref misremembered which gauge he used and the Pats chose to deflate an amount of air to exactly match the difference between the two gauges!

    Seriously, why would _anybody_ deflate a football 0.4 psi? It’s a stupid conspiracy theory.

    ==============

    Exactly. And ever since the release of the Wells report, there’s been a strange lack of curiosity out there about why Pats would go to the trouble if all they took out was about 0.4 psi, and what kind of sense, if any, does that make.

    Not Wells. Not Goodell. Not the sports media in general (but maybe they never read far enough into the report to find this out anyway). No interest at all about what the Brady and his boys were were trying to accomplish if indeed this was the scheme.

    I do remember though some interest when the early reports were the balls were low by 2 psi. Back then there was discussion about if somebody could tell the difference and the possible advantages or disadvantages it might offer.

  206. Brady’s appeal calls Wells Report “dubious, contradictory”
    *******************************************

    Funny, that’s what the rest of the country says about the Patri*ts.

  207. After watching Trump’s painfully executed entrance into the the presidential race, including racial slurs and the expropriation of Neil Young’s work, it is hard to believe I agree with him on anything but we both believe in Tom Brady’s innocence.

  208. Fact: The lead official confirmed he used the gague that showed no deflation – and Wells assumed the opposite in order to arrive at his pre-determined conclusion

    Fact: Sources in the NFL have consistently been leaking false information intended to make the Patriots look bad and fan the flames of this faux “scandal”

    Fact: The actual measured PSI shows that no unusual deflation occurred

    Fact: Brady’s preferred PSI according to the texts is 13.0 PSI – not the minimum or lower. The texts also show that the officials in Jets games have cheated by over-inflating Patriots footballs to 16.0 PSI

    Fact: All other NFL teams employ “deflators” as the Patriots do as documented by the NY Times in “Eli Manning’s Footballs Months in the Making” eliminating this as “circumstantial” evidence

    FACT: Goodell believes that the majority of NFL fans are ignorant and gullible enough to ignore all of these facts and still join in the chorus of those who think the above facts actually show Brady to be guilty

    FACT: Goodell is generally right about the ignorance and gullibility of non-Patriots fans, as proven by most of the hater comments above

  209. @ j0esixpack says: Jun 16, 2015 6:55 PM

    dumbaseinstien says: That headline is a perfect description of Brady’s own comments regarding his guilt….
    ==================================
    Um – he hasn’t made any comments, as noted right here in PFT… he’s waiting til his appeal.

    Care to elaborate?
    ==================================

    you appear to forget that he stood in front of cameras and when asked if he “Cheated”, his response was a very, less than convincing, “Well, um…I don’t think so”.

    ANYONE that watched him in that Press Conference & stated they believed him is either a complete idiot or a liar.

  210. @ davemcnealy says: Jun 16, 2015 7:48 PM
    ==================================

    I don’t claim to be biased or non-biased. I only claim to fully understand the difference between convincing & unconvincing evidence. And also to know when lawyers & money brokers are trying to alter or buy a certain public opinion for personal gain. In this case, the evidence is conclusive & the propaganda brokers are out in force trying to re-image this corrupt player & team.

    I don’t have a vested interest in the outcome like you do. My motivation is to simply preserve some semblance of the integrity of the NFL that everyone once depended on but appears to be dissolving before our eyes. Individuals like Brady & Belicheat represent all that is bad with the NFL today & I will fight against their corrupt mentality until it either changes or I give up hope that fairness is achievable in the NFL (which is more than likely the outcome…but we will see).

  211. dumbaseinstien says:
    Jun 17, 2015 3:37 PM
    @ davemcnealy says: Jun 16, 2015 7:48 PM
    ==================================

    I don’t claim to be biased or non-biased….

    You do not have to make any such claims because anyone who has seen your posts knows that, like all members of the Pats Envy Club, you are completely biased, and regrettably uninformed.

  212. dumbaseinstien, with all due respect, your last post reeks of hypocrisy.
    If you “fully understand the difference between convincing & unconvincing evidence” then how do you explain the way that the NFL offices have handle this whole cluster####.
    The NFL hasn’t been upfront from the get go. You can’t deny that. Leaks and false information have created and feed the uproar. Yes the Pats and TB12 have been vague and elusive but think about this. When Mortensen broke the “11 of 12 balls were 2# under” story, the media and social media went ballistic. That was the intent wasn’t it?? The NFL sat on that truth for months, never correcting the story. They just let it run…and run it did. Not very ethical of them was it? The word corrupt can be used also. Shame on the NFL. They created this mess with all it’s antagonism and spite.

  213. This from the Washington Post:

    “Tom Brady is said to be seeking total exoneration, and it appears he’s entitled to it. The idea that Brady and the New England Patriots intentionally deflated footballs for a competitive advantage has been discredited by everyone from sidewalk chemists to Web physicists to unlicensed ceramicists, not to mention your own common sense. But most importantly, it is utterly shredded in a new scientific analysis by the American Enterprise Institute, which shows the only inflation problem is in NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell’s head.

    The NFL paid millions for a fundamentally flawed report by lawyer Ted Wells that made Brady and the Patriots out to be slam-dunk guilty, based on more than 100 pages of mathematical analysis of ball pressurization . . . that turns out to be erroneous. The AEI’s report totally rejects the finding that the footballs used by the Patriots in the AFC championship game had a significant drop in air pressure compared with those used by the Colts. But the truly damning sentence is this one, buried in its erudite phrasings and equations: “The Wells report’s statistical analysis cannot be replicated by performing the analysis as described in the report,” the AEI concludes.”

    It’s over for Goodell and Wells.

  214. i think the nfl is mad because after the vikings and panthers did it on tv, vp of nfl said that “all teams would be reminded” that u cannot alter balls. I am left to assume that it was in letter form that all teams were warned, because no news outlets have brought this point up.

    In the past it was one of the first things that was discussed. “Was the team/ player warned first?” Kind of important in this case imo.

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