AEI report looms over Brady appeal hearing

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On Tuesday, Patriots quarterback Tom Brady will present his appeal to Commissioner Roger Goodell in the #DeflateGate controversy. Late last week, the deadline passed for submitting exhibits.

One key document that should have appeared on the list of materials submitted on Brady’s behalf was generated by the American Enterprise Institute. Apart from the fairly obvious flaw (obvious enough that even we caught it) regarding the respective air pressure reductions in the 11 footballs used by the Patriots and the four footballs used by the Colts, AEI discovered potentially serious flaws with the nuts-and-bolts of the science underpinning the conclusions reached by Ted Wells and company.

Most importantly, AEI has concluded that the “Wells report’s statistical analysis cannot be replicated by performing the analysis as described in the report,” a phenomenon explained more bluntly in the opening paragraph of the AEI report like this: “[O]ur replication of the report’s analysis finds that it relies on an unorthodox statistical procedure at odds with the methodology the report describes.”

One of the authors of the AEI report, Stan Veuger, recently told Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post that AEI was “astonished” by the mistake.

“It was really clumsy. It’s the kind of mistake you’d see in freshman statistics class,” Veuger told Jenkins.

The AEI report also astutely focuses on discrepancies regarding the two pressure gauges available to referee Walt Anderson and his crew. The Wells report disregarded Anderson’s “best recollection” that he used the gauge that measured the footballs at a higher level when inflating them before the game, presumably because that gauge would have translated to a drop in pressure wholly consistent with the operation of the Ideal Gas Law. During the Angry Ted Wells conference call, however, it was explained that it didn’t matter which gauge was used, and that all permutations of pressure-gauge usage resulted in evidence of tampering.

“This statement is factually incorrect,” the AEI report states. “The Wells report neither provides evidence for every possible permutation of gauge use nor proves that the report’s conclusions are independent of gauge use.”
The biggest takeaway from the AEI report continues to be the commonsensical explanation that the footballs used by the Colts showed less of a reduction than the footballs used by the Patriots because the footballs used by the Colts were exposed to the warmer temperature of the locker room for a longer period of time, allowing for a greater degree of expansion of the air inside the bladders. The biggest question for Goodell is whether he’ll apply common sense when reviewing the case, even if it means admitting that the lawyer Goodell hired to conduct the investigation applied a multi-million-dollar layer of tarnish to the NFL shield.

198 responses to “AEI report looms over Brady appeal hearing

  1. Expect full exoneration for Brady.He’ll be leading the Super Bowl Champions Patriots game 1 against the Steelers.

  2. Again, with the nitpicking excuses by Patriots fans and their apologists.

    There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.

    There are the text messages.

    There has still never been a blanket denial than no deflation ever occured. In fact, the Patriots main argument is that “everybody cheats”.

    Tom Brady was one of the two main QBs who fought hard for the ability to manipulate footballs in the first place.

    If it walks like a deflated duck, and talks like a deflated duck – it’s a deflated duck.

  3. Brady’s lawyers have literally hundreds of these reports by scientists and mathematicians that prove that the balls were not tampered with… Ex Jet Goodell has exponant and Nye the science guy….I am sure ex Jet Goodell will look at all the evidence and go with the science guy..he is that biased and that stupid!

  4. Goodell screwed over the Saints during Bountygate. He screwed over the Cowboys and Redskins with their supposed salary cap violations. Now he’s after the Patriots with no proof. Not a fan of any of those four teams but the commissioner is a corrupt tyrant. He must go.

    By the way, when is Elway giving back his Super Bowl rings? The *Broncos paying their two star players under the table to circumvent the cap is the most egregious cheating ever seen in sports. Fact.

  5. Ted Wells may be a tremendous attorney, however this entire episode will forever remain as a mark on his reputation. He has failed spectacularly.

  6. So Brady and the Patriots were investigated for a ‘violation’ that it seems never happened. Punished by a runaway commissioners office even though they didn’t have any scientific proof that the balls were underinflated based on unbiased reports. Instead they paid millions to get the result they needed. Corrupt to the core NFL offices. The whole crew including Goodell needs to be thrown out and someone needs to investigate them. Go suck an egg all you haters!!!

  7. Technicalities cant save brady*. He will serve 4 and he will not sue. JJ and JM would have to testify and they will fold faster than superman on laundry day!

  8. Isn’t this hearing about Brady though ? None of the items you mentioned above talk about Brady, they refer to the Patriots.

  9. This isn’t fair, how are the Bills supposed to even have a shot at beating the Pats in a game that actually means something?

  10. Kessler is gonna WHOOP the NFL in court and I love it! 🙂

    Oh and this IS going to court no matter what Roger the Clown decides to do. 🙂

  11. Wonder what all the haters will say when he doesn’t have to sit one single game?

    “Shady Brady and Krafty Bobby must have paid them off”.

    “See, we told you they were in cahoots with one another”.

    “Of course they are not going to do anything to the leagues pretty boy”.

    But they won’t acknowledge FACTS and just allow their jealousy, envy and hate dictate what they say and feel.

  12. How can they punish anyone for this Probable evidence. I would be ticked off if I was any player in the NFL as it could happen to them to. It doesn’t happen in any court of law in the states does it?

  13. How could something that took so long to get done be completed in such a sloppy manner by a company worth billions?

  14. Memo to Roger Goodell: When you are in a hole, stop digging — and climb out. You can still blame this on Wells now, but not if you reconfirm that ridiculous report.

    The League’s best interest, and yours, lies in owning up to the fact that this investigation was flawed, because deflation rates for footballs were not well understood and because the Wells team commissioned poor science.

    Put Brady back on the field so a normal season can kick off September 10.

  15. Brady was only punished for refusing to render his phone. Stephen Gostkowski also failed to render his phone. He refused. His punishment for refusing to turn over his phone? Nothing. The NFL didn’t fine him a penny or suspended him even a minute. How on one hand can Brady’s punishment be so severe and yet for the same exact thing the NFL allow Gostkowski to skate? The NFL, specifically Troy Vincent, chastised Brady for his stature and decried all players would be treated equally. What shambles the NFL finds itself in because they treated Brady with prejudice and treated him as unequal. The NFL is making this entire thing up as it goes. There is no standard here. Shambles.

  16. I don’t know about you guys… but whenever I need scientific subject-matter expertise, nothing beats a good ol’ right-wing think tank.

  17. Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?

  18. Typically, I am in Goodell’s corner because I realize that he is a patsy for the owners. However in this case, he really has painted himself in a corner.

    He should’ve come out earlier and stated that he found discrepancies, however I digress.

    The biggest problem for me, is the pattern of him digging his heels in when there is a much simpler way of doing things.

    In this case, instead of having to suspend Brady for cheating , he could’ve just suspended him for obstructing an investigation. At the end of the day, Brady and Kraft both have admitted to obstructing the investigation, by saying that they didn’t completely comply.

    Right or wrong, we wouldn’t be having this discussion because at that point Well’s report or no, the whole deflate issue is rendered moot as he wasn’t suspended for that. Neither Brady or Kraft have the high ground at that point as they have admitted guilt.

    Now, no matter what happens Brady comes out looking like a victim and Goodell looks like the arse because he suspended him using proof that has been proven faulty.

    Yet one more black eye.

  19. Can’t the NFL switch to a fair process for these kinds of investigations. They hire someone to do the investigation, the investigator presents findings (not conclusions and judgement), an impartial judge or arbitrator hears counter arguments and passes judgment with regards to punishment.

    It’s just not a fair process as is. If the process were fair most people would be ok with what ever punishment Brady did or did not receive.

  20. How about the part where he’s bribing the equipment guy with jerseys & materials for him to pawn for money ?? Is that inflated improperly as well ??

    Is the film of the equipment guy going into the bathroom with all the gambols just before the game part of that new report ??

    I think Tom’s behavior is a major part of the suspension, including not being forthcoming with materials to help incriminate himself.

    The equipment guy also sends his regards from the unemployment line, where he was put thanks to helping Brady cheat.

  21. The Wells report on Miami bullies whitewash is coming home to roosted, perhaps some of the people who were harm can get back something, the trainer was fired for not kissing Wells rear end, Richie loss an year and half pay and so much more for the one sided whitewash. Wells has been expose, now its time for Roger to be expose. Bill

  22. “thepatsrcheaters says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:00 PM
    Technicalities cant save brady*.”

    If you consider it a technicality that the science says the balls were never deflated by humans, then you and I have a different understanding of the term “technicality” when applied in this sense.

    It would be like saying “technically” nobody was died, but we’re charging you with murder anyway.

  23. Shocking that a conservative organization that probably has ties to Kraft would support a group of liars and cheaters
    -no one ever

  24. “Look at his charisma. He’s the next John Gotti. He’ll walk.”
    -random reporter at Papa Joe’s trial in Boondock Saints

    Seriously though, I can’t even imagine a guy going to the mat for his good name like this if he was guilty. Brady is no dummy, and I’m pretty sure he’d be the first guy to man up and accept responsibility like the haters are clamoring for him to do. But no man is going to allow himself to be dragged through the mud if he didn’t do it.
    #FreeSaintThomasBrady

  25. Unfortunately, the “common sense” aspect of this process passed long ago. I have a hard time believing that the league thinks the Wells report presents an accurate picture of what happened.

    Now it’s at the “are we willing to end up with a lot of egg on our face because we really screwed this up or are we going to be stubborn” point.

  26. “johnodocks says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM
    Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?”


    No, but common sense does:
    He was called Deflator because the balls are at 13 PSI when the come out of the box. His job was to get them to 12.5 (legal)

    He went to a “private room” to take a leak for less than 2 min.

    All players give memorabelia away to clubhouse guys

  27. “the biggest question for Goodell is whether he’lol apply common sense”

    Well put Florio. But there’s I chance Goodell will apply common sense. We’re talking about a modern day Nero, a man far more interested in holding power than maintaining justice. A man who would be perfectly content fiddling with competitive fair play while the NFL burns.

    When has Goodell ever demonstrated any familiarity with the concept of “common sense”?

  28. skooter519 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:03 PM

    If he doesnt like the NFL he can leave it. Until then, he has to live by NFL rules. And years ago the NFL implemented a change that said there does NOT have to be a ‘smoking gunn’ in order to give out a punishment, just enough to prove ‘more probably than not’ the player is guilty. This is so ppl like brady dont get off on technicalities. AEI has their opinion, thats great, so do the Well’s investigators. All other evidence points to guilty. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its most like a duck. Are u telling me the ravens suspected the pats of deflating balls and it just so happens the very next week is the first time in all of football history that cold weather deflated the balls dramatically?!?!?!? thats quite a coincidence after being accused of deflating balls.

  29. Goodell will never admit mistake from the NFL side of this.
    He and they showed their hand from the beginning by telling Mort the lie of 11 at 10.5.
    Goodell not correcting that showed what they intended to do to the Patriots.
    And most importantly it showed Wells what was expected of him when he was hired. Find them guilty no matter what you have to do.

  30. What the AEI report can’t answer:

    Why NE accepted the punishment
    Why Brady hasn’t addressed this early and fully cooperated, no matter how petty this whole thing is
    Why the two stooges were fired if they did nothing wrong

    Either NE’s PR and team Executives are completely inept and should lose their jobs over this, or there is guilt with not enough “hard facts” to prove it without doubt.

    Its easy to think there is guilt here. And there likely is.

  31. This whole thing reminds me of the climate change “debate”. Scientists vs. people who stick their fingers in their ears and tell the scientists to shutup.

  32. I don’t need your “science”! A guy called himself the deflator in one text message 9 months before the game AND he took a leak before a football game, which no one in the history of earth has ever done! Ban the entire NFL from the league!

  33. I have to say, the way Florio has come around on this is heartening, particularly given how eagerly the media just ran with the “2 pounds under inflated” lie that the NFL leaked. Why did the NFL leak that, anyway? The answer to that question likely goes far beyond mere hatred of a Patriots dynasty by the bitter ex Jets pencil pushers in the league office.

  34. So the only “evidence” now are text messages in the offseason, with off color humor. Roger would be smart to rescind all penalties, but he won’t. The NFL ladies and gentleman.

  35. Brady refusing to turn over printed communications between him and the 2 stooges is all anyone needs to know about his innocence or guilt.

    If I could be exonnerated by handing over specific text messages that didn’t incriminate me whatsoever between me and 2 other people….I would immediately hand them over and tell the investigator to pound sand. Clearly there is something to hide, which is the only reason he wouldn’t do that.

  36. quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:11 PM

    No no, according to the Pats the fat man referred to himself as the Deflator b/c of his weight (which makes no sense), its not b/c he deflates balls from 13psi-12.5 psi. And yes, the ball boy claims he took a leak at the urinal, which there isnt one in that bathroom (and as for the timing, ppl have tested this and deflated 11 balls in less time than he was in there for). And whats the excuse for not showing his phone? oh b/c he doesnt want info leaked, even though wells never asked to take actual control of his phone. Usually innocent ppl with nothing to hide tend to hide their phones and be uncooperative. And the team refused to let Wells meet the ball boy for a second interview. There is an argument for everything, but there is one very simple solution- He cheated, or there are 100 different coincidences which makes this all add up to a big misunderstanding.

  37. Anyone still talking about text messages is a gossip enthusiast, not a football fan. The numbers show that there is no proof an inappropriate amount of air came out of the footballs. Every single person who has read the report and doesn’t share an office with Roger Goodell has acknowledged this.

  38. joestemme says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:57 AM
    Again, with the nitpicking excuses by Patriots fans and their apologists.

    There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.

    There are the text messages.

    There has still never been a blanket denial than no deflation ever occured. In fact, the Patriots main argument is that “everybody cheats”.

    Tom Brady was one of the two main QBs who fought hard for the ability to manipulate footballs in the first place.

    If it walks like a deflated duck, and talks like a deflated duck – it’s a deflated duck.
    ——————————————————-
    Oh man… you want SO BADLY to believe it’s true. They didn’t do it this time but they did it other times! They even went into the bathroom with footballs the time that science proves they didn’t do anything wrong, but they must have done it other times when they didn’t go into a bathroom! The Colts were suspicious of it the last time they played in Indy when the Pats never even touched the balls!

    It’s really sad what people will make up to justify failure. Do you disregard global warming too?

    Who cares what science proves!

    Biased old white guys in congress who are getting buckets full of cash from energy companies keep claiming it’s not true!

    We just had record breaking snow last winter!

    If it walks like an easily manipulated jealous fool, and talks like an easily manipulated jealous fool…

  39. Marshawn Lunch says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:08 PM

    No way Tommy boy plays week one. Week 3 seems the more likely play. Reduce it to a two game suspension. Be done with it.

    ———–

    I think that’s what Goodell would be willing to do, but I don’t know if Brady will be willing to accept that. There is a good chance that the Wells report could be thrown out of court if it goes that far.

    If Brady doesn’t accept a deal it probably won’t go public. Goodell will stick to 4 games and Brady will take it to the next level.

  40. “He was called Deflator because the balls are at 13 PSI when the come out of the box. His job was to get them to 12.5 (legal)”

    Funny, that’s not what the Patriots said. They said he was joking around about being fat. Which, of course, is ridiculous.

    This isn’t a criminal case. Ted Wells’ people making mistakes in the science doesn’t invalidate the discoveries made on the Patriots’ employees cell phones… discoveries which had to be forensically reconstructed because the employees tried to delete the text message evidence before the phones were handed over.

    Brady withheld his phone for a reason. The Pats refused follow-up interviews with the employees for a reason. The Pats declined to pursue this matter in court, where their people can be sworn in and evidence can be compelled, for a reason. The fulfillment of the preponderance of the evidence standard has not changed based on the AEI report.

    Patriot fans can continue to believe what they want to believe, just like they were going to do anyway. Their title will still be tainted, just like the rest of their accomplishments for the past 15 years have been tainted. The embarrassing thing is, they were probably good enough to win multiple titles without cheating… but they cheated anyway.

  41. Why doesn’t the NFL just hold off on any punishment until after the 2015 season?

    No one ever thought about weather impacting the air pressure in football before, why not do a legitimate study? Gauge every ball before, at the half and after every NFL game this year. Get some real data and if it all adds up that the PSI is impacted exonerate the Pats/Brady. If data shows limited impact punish them.

  42. Dear patriots Fans, I’m president of PHWPI group, this is “patriot haters with perceived intelligence”

    on behalf of all of my group please allow me to put this debate on Brady’s guilt to bed

    1. I know you think that the science proves no deflation but its very evident that you are wrong. if you start with a conclusion, then use the testimony of the refs that supports that conclusion, and eliminate the testimony that doesn’t support the conclusion like which gauge they used, then you completely ignore that the colts balls were heated up as they sat for 20 minutes and ignore they only tested 30 percent of the colts balls as a measure of control, you take all that and mix and match whatever gauges you can to come up with a lower reading and ignore that the gauges had to have been inaccurate in the first place as they produced drastically different readings, you finally get proof that brady cheated, and that’s how science is done, nothing else to debate!!

    2. one guy refers to himself as the deflator, yes we know he deflated balls and got yelled at when the balls were above the legal limit by the refs, we also know that he was told in the text messages to lower the balls within the legal limit and we know there was not a single mention of a ball below a legal limit, (there was mention of the refs over inflating balls above the legal limit). its very simple people ignore all that assume that he deflates balls below a legal limit, then assume again that he does this after the refs checked them. and there you have it solid proof based on an assumption laid on top of another assumption, no more debate necessary.

    3. the aei group is funded by the kraft foundation, its very clear that bob kraft funds them as we don’t think its possible for 2 people to have the same name in the USA and not be related. this is all the proof we need, and bob kraft is forsure guilty in all this as he has proven to be of very low intelligence for not collecting his revenue checks from kraft foods as they must be related, no more debate here

    4. we know the NFL had no interest in hammering the patriots, its very simple people, just ignore that most of the head honchos worked for the jets, ignore the fact that NFL employees were telling patriots staff they are screwed at the game before an investigation, ignore the fact that the NFL leaked bad information and refused to correct it, they supplied info to the patriots making them sign a non disclosure agreement preventing them from correcting the false information, ignore the fact that the NFL initially sent an e-mail to the patriots claiming the balls were 2 PSI below even though that wasn’t true, ignore the fact that TED WELLS was hired to do whats in his clients best interest, and ignore that every single prveious punishment for something similar and what is written in the rule books is a fine a thousand times smaller then what the patriots received. and you are left with what all of us logical people clearly see as a totally impartial and fair and balanced investigation and fine, sorry folks its clear nothing shady here

    4. and lastly why would brady not give up his phone if he was innocent, he doesn’t have many businesses or personal e-mails that he should be afraid to show, the NFL has proven very trustworthy when it comes to not leaking information (we already ignored their horrible track record). and yes we can see all the texts to and from the employees who did give up their phone but maybe he only spoke about deflation with his wife Giselle, sounds guilty to me

    I think I have put forth enough proof that all of us Patriot haters with perceived intelligence need. so please no response this case is way to clear cut and dry, they are guilty, brady should be suspended for life, belichek should be suspended for life the patriots should be sold and disbanded, and every team should get a usperbowl ring in the years the patriots won so most of us can say our team won something

  43. joestemme says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:57 AM
    ….

    There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.

    Really? Your Colts were reported to have deflated footballs for more than just the AFCCG? Can you tell us in what other games your Colts Grigson, Pagano and Luck deflated footballs? Clearly that Colts culture of cheating has not improved their ability to stop the run, nor will it be improved for the 2015 season.

  44. Why did Wells lie about investigating the leaks?

    Was he told off the record to write the report and focus only on making sure the Patriots look guilty? Or did he really start digging but was told by a corrupt league to back off? Hmmm.

    It’s one or the other. That’s not opinion, that is a fact and you can’t dispute what is fact.

  45. This is the last time I will say this…. The PSI levels are irrelevant, the evidence proves the Pats ball boys were tampering with the balls in previous games. In one text they even complained the balls were overinflated lol, using basic logic tells you they measured to balls after the inspection to conclude the balls were overinflated. Brady was involved and lied because he knew if he admitted it that it would potentially threaten his availability for the Super Bowl. Just because one insignificant piece of evidence looks weak doesn’t mean all the other evidence is worthless.

  46. thepatsrcheaters says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:00 PM

    Technicalities cant save brady*. He will serve 4 and he will not sue. JJ and JM would have to testify and they will fold faster than superman on laundry day!

    —————————

    Technicalities? As in science proves there was no deflation in the first place? That technicality? Wow, I gather, you were in the same freshman statistics class as Ted Wells.

  47. “johnodocks says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM
    Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?”

    No, science doesn’t explain circumstantial evidence, but common sense and logic do. Let’s start with the assumption that the balls were deflated naturally (as science proves) and go from there:

    JM called himself the deflator in May 2014. He then refers to the word deflate a second time, saying “deflate and give somebody that jacket”. Clearly a reference to weight loss. Also those lovely text messages mention that footballs from a game in October were measured at 16 psi and should have measured 13 psi. If they were actually deflating footballs past the legal point, don’t you think he would have said “they were 16 psi, should have been 11.5”? Doesn’t sound like this long standing conspiracy to cheat stretched very far back if it wasn’t even happening in October. Kind of makes that text message from May 2014 pretty useless. Take off your conspiracy hat and think logically buddy.

    JM goes into the bathroom to….. I don’t know….. urinate? If balls aren’t deflated, and it’s 100% proven he went into the bathroom, wouldn’t that be a pretty logical explanation?

    Brady calls and texts JJ multiple times after story broke. Not JM, but JJ. Big difference there and lots of haters confuse this aspect. Brady never communicated with JM, but he knew JJ and was checking on him to see how he was handling the beginning of what would grow to be one of the biggest frame jobs in sports history. That one can be easily explained, unless you have your haters glasses welded on and are unable to think freely.

    And the memorabilia! Why was Brady giving away memorabilia to the deflator? Well if you read the Wells Report in context, you would know that Brady has historically given and signed memorabilia to all his locker room staff, a group of 15+ people. Not just the people responsible for the footballs, but everyone. Doesn’t sound much like a bribe to me, but actually just a really good guy trying to help out other people.

    Oh and finally, the phone! Haters love this phone so much now that they realize there is no scientific evidence anything happened. BUT THE PHONE! GUILTY PEOPLE DONT TURN OVER EVIDENCE. Actually, this is very simple as well. Brady allowing Wells access to his personal phone would set a precedent that the players union did not want to set. The NFL has no right to Brady’s personal phone, and if he did give access then all future investigations will use it against the players union. Anyone that has ever dealt with unions in any area of life would easily understand this.

    You see, there isn’t anything to all of your circumstantial evidence if you are able to realize that there were no deflated footballs in the first place. Everything else can be explained logically. Unless you are unwilling to accept that the Patriots are actually this good, and they don’t cheat. Then there is nothing that can be done for you.

  48. The Patriots lost the PR battle the minute they tried to pass off the deflator nick name as a guy trying to lose weight.

    I realize the Pats fans will buy anything that Kraft is selling but to the average football fan, this is simply insulting.

  49. There is a lot of ‘he must have known’ when considering Brady’s involvement, but in the end the evidence didn’t support a firm conclusion. A 4-game suspension is not consistent with a conclusion of ‘it also is our view that it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities…’.

  50. Since no reporters will be present it may be quite awhile before anything is known once the appeals hearing is over. I wonder how long it will take for the NFL office to start leaking tidbits detrimental to Brady? If we start seeing those then it does not bode well for Tom. Almost all the leaks up until now propped up the scenario that he was guilty. If there are no leaks then I think things may work out more favorably for #12.

  51. johnodocks says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM
    Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?
    ———————————————————–
    Does science explain the opposite? All of those non-scientific questions have been offered scientifically viable answers, you just happen to believe the answers are lies.

    It is scientifically possible for someone to have an odd nickname based on an inside joke.

    It is scientifically possible that the term deflate may be a reference to weight loss.

    It is scientifically possible that game day employees receive memorabilia in New England the same way they do in every other stadium.

    It is scientifically possible that an attorney advised their client not to give up their privacy on grounds of precedent, as no such requirement is defined in the CBA.

    And there certainly could be merits to your disbelief and skepticism, but when you make comments like yours, all it does is polarize the conversation with buzzlines and insults instead of actual dialogue and thoughtful, respectful debate and conversation.

    Personally, I think you’re grasping at low hanging fruit in an attempt to validate a failed attempt to frame someone, but if we’re going to just shout hyperbole, what’s the point?

  52. .
    I loathe Goodell with the power of a million suns, however if I were to advise him, I would recommend :

    1. Vacate the Patriots sanctions. Don’t risk anything else ( like your 44 million salary) on this loser of a case.

    2. Burn Exponent, Save Wells ( and face).

    3. Declare yourself the ” New Solomon” and have the NFL Network, website and the media lackeys at ESPN et al sell it like it was new and improved beer.
    .

  53. I don’t like anything about Goodell that pertains to Deflate gate. I don’t like his arrogance, his lack of integrity, his assumed sense of righteousness, his smugness, his lack of scientific acumen, his assumed right to respect (homage) and the list goes on. I especially don’t like the fact that he disregarded the valuable life lesson his father taught him about taking the high road at every juncture.
    Now I’m sure he must has some good traits but whatever they are they are of no consequence to me. He is the epitome of narcissism and because he holds such a high position within an important entity in our country, I truly believe he is an danger to our society. Just the thought of a possible interpretation of his message to our youth might be “do like I do and one day you too might have your name inscribed on every football” sickens me.
    So what’s that got to do with this blog. Nothing I hope. I hope that Brady and his team go in with, metaphorically speaking, all guns blazing tomorrow and rip that sociopath out of his office. And that Goodell is not given any opportunity to surrender by somehow passing the buck to others who merely acted under his direction. Just as everyone who plays in the NFL should consider it a privilege to be jealously guarded, Goodell should have considered his position a supreme privilege that he has squandered. Get him out of there as fast as possible bearing the full cost of his vulgar abuse of the authority having been given to him.
    Roger, you are still young. Go read your father’s history again and see if you can learn from it this time.

  54. pftfan says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM

    I don’t know about you guys… but whenever I need scientific subject-matter expertise, nothing beats a good ol’ right-wing think tank.
    ———————————
    I don’t know about you pftfan, but it sure beats the conclusions of a company who reported second hand smoke isn’t dangerous.

  55. quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:09 PM

    Apparently u dont understand what the AEI report means. Its their opinion that the Well’s science is off. There is no 100% fact either way. And lets say the AEI report is right, all that says is that the weather COULD have deflated balls, it does not say it DEFINITELY did. Even if cold weather could do this (which seems wierd that over all the years no qb has complained about a deflated football-especially Aaron Rodgers who likes his at the full 13.5 psi and plays in the frozen tundra- if his balls drop to 11 or 10.5 he will absolutely notice it) but even if temperature COULD cause deflation, that doesnt mean the pats are off the hook. There are still txt from ball boys referring to himself as the deflator, complaining about how crazy brady is about his PSI, saying they should go to ESPN (which means something wrong is going on), the ball boy taking the balls to the ONE place in the stadium without cameras, brady refusing to turn over information, calling the ball boy 6 times after the game. These are all signs of guilt. If brady is 100% innocent then why call the ball boy? ?who cares? He’s innocent right? No need to get ur story straight if there is no wrong doing.

  56. Brady will take the AEI report to court with him and Goodell and the NFL will lose again. Brady is not Robert Kraft and doesn’t need to play nice with other NFL owners. If Brady wins a court case against the NFL, Goodell and Wells will be humiliated. The problem for Goodell is that he is too invested in Ted Wells and his report. It was already used to take a first round pick from the Patriots. If he lets Brady off, maybe there’s an admission there that the Patriots were wrongly punished.

  57. “whitetrash69 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:28 PM
    This is the last time I will say this…. The PSI levels are irrelevant, the evidence proves the Pats ball boys were tampering with the balls in previous games. In one text they even complained the balls were overinflated lol, using basic logic tells you they measured to balls after the inspection to conclude the balls were overinflated. Brady was involved and lied because he knew if he admitted it that it would potentially threaten his availability for the Super Bowl. Just because one insignificant piece of evidence looks weak doesn’t mean all the other evidence is worthless.”

    JJ measured the footballs after the game because Brady was complaining about them. The only way basic logic tells you they measured the balls after inspection but before the game began is if you’re a blind hater. They played the entire game with 16 psi footballs and measured after the game to confirm that yes, they were blown up far too much. Why would Brady have complained about them if JM was able to deflate them to the 13 psi they were supposed to be at? Brady never would have known. How you can look at this piece of evidence and think it concludes wrong doing on the Patriots part is just pure delusion at its finest. If anything, the referee from this game Bill Leavy should be investigated, as he was responsible for one of the biggest bag jobs in NFL history “Super Bowl XL”. Oh, he mysteriously retired after this season? Shocking.

  58. alltee says: Jun 22, 2015 12:24 PM

    Dear patriots Fans, I’m president of PHWPI group, this is “patriot haters with perceived intelligence”

    —-
    Don’t forget: whenever cheating happens in sports it’s the Patriots fault because SPYGATE!111!1111!!11!!11111!

    🙂

  59. Actually, the biggest question is whether Brady will finally cooperate. If not, the suspension will stand. If so, the level of cooperation and the new evidence it presents, will determine whether the suspension is reduced or not.

  60. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:12 PM

    skooter519 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:03 PM

    If he doesnt like the NFL he can leave it. Until then, he has to live by NFL rules. And years ago the NFL implemented a change that said there does NOT have to be a ‘smoking gunn’ in order to give out a punishment, just enough to prove ‘more probably than not’ the player is guilty. This is so ppl like brady dont get off on technicalities. AEI has their opinion, thats great, so do the Well’s investigators. All other evidence points to guilty. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then its most like a duck. Are u telling me the ravens suspected the pats of deflating balls and it just so happens the very next week is the first time in all of football history that cold weather deflated the balls dramatically?!?!?!? thats quite a coincidence after being accused of deflating balls.
    ———
    The Ravens were complaining that the kicking balls were deflated, and the kicking balls are in the possession of the referees at all times.

    Likely not the first time that footballs were “deflated” by cold weather, but by most accounts, the AFFCG was the first time that anyone had a clue that footballs could “lose pressure” due to cold weather. Football pressures have never been measured before, during a game, so no one really knows for sure what happens.

  61. thepatsrcheaters says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:00 PM

    Technicalities cant save brady*. He will serve 4 and he will not sue. JJ and JM would have to testify and they will fold faster than superman on laundry day!
    ____________________________

    Science showing that deflation occurred due to atmospheric conditions is more than a technicality.

    And no, JJ and JM do not have to testify. The NFL has to defend how they made their decision. Going to court does not allow the NFL to open up a whole new investigation. The NFL has to justify their actions based on the information that they had.

    So a flawed report and precedent of a $50k fine for not cooperating does not bode well for Rodger and co.

  62. AEI – “…we dedicate our work to a more prosperous, safer and more democratic nation and world.”

    The screaming liberals want a say!

  63. “whatjusthapped says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:30 PM
    The Patriots lost the PR battle the minute they tried to pass off the deflator nick name as a guy trying to lose weight.

    I realize the Pats fans will buy anything that Kraft is selling but to the average football fan, this is simply insulting.”

    The Patriots are a smart group of individuals, no? That really can’t be debated, they’ve put together winning football teams for years and are always heralded for being shrewd businessmen.

    Why would such a smart organization come up with a ridiculous weight loss explanation that sounds ridiculous to anyone hearing it for the first time if it wasn’t true? Why not just say “ya part of his job is breaking in the footballs, which requires him to inflate and deflate them multiple times to wear in the leather.” Anyone could understand that. But weight loss?

    How about this…. maybe they said it….. because its the truth? Doesn’t the “deflate and give someone that jacket” text really kind of bring it full circle?

  64. pftfan says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM
    I don’t know about you guys… but whenever I need scientific subject-matter expertise, nothing beats a good ol’ right-wing think tank.

    ==============

    So you can’t contradict the facts presented by AEI and instead you try to impugn their reputation. Textbook definition of an ad hominem attack. Come back when you have something enlightening to contribute.

  65. joestemme says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:57 AM

    Again, with the nitpicking excuses by Patriots fans and their apologists.

    There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.

    There are the text messages.

    There has still never been a blanket denial than no deflation ever occured. In fact, the Patriots main argument is that “everybody cheats”.

    Tom Brady was one of the two main QBs who fought hard for the ability to manipulate footballs in the first place.

    If it walks like a deflated duck, and talks like a deflated duck – it’s a deflated duck.

    ———-

    The evidence of deflating footballs is what matters. If there was no evidence of tampering then all the other evidence related to it is irrelevant. There weren’t official reports of deflation for other games, but if there were they would also be irrelevant, as they would have to produce evidence that the balls were actually deflated in those games, which does not exist.

    The Patriots did make a blanket denial. They did say that no deflation has occurred. They clearly said they have never tampered with the footballs. They certainly never insinuated that everyone cheats. Maybe Patriots fans said that, but no one from the organization ever did.

    Brady being one of the QBs that fought for the rule change is also irrelevant. Search for the NYTimes article on Eli’s ball prep. Once you see that you will realize that all QBs take advantage of those rules. Nothing wrong with it at all.

  66. To an above poster, the NFL SHOULD record all footballs before, during and after every game, particularly later in the season when the weather turns colder.
    But they WON’T do that.
    They’d rather stick their head in the sand about the reality of nothing unusual taking place…and thus make themselves look even more foolish.
    For crying out loud, known Patriot hater and game day operations executive Mike Kensil told a Pats employee on the field “You are in big trouble”. “We weighed the footballs”
    He didn’t even know the difference between weighing and measuring psi.
    Funny he didn’t say the same thing to the Colts about 3 of 4 being underinflated on their preferrd gauge even though they started at a higher psi of 13.

  67. If Goodell sustains the suspension, Kessler will annihilate him in court. If tries to back away from the Wells report in any way shape or form… M&J’s lawyers will be frothing at the mouth ready to pounce with a defamation suit! He really is in a bad place right now.

    Tee hee 🙂 I’m munching on my popcorn in anticipation of a really entertaining week!

    Goodell is not long for his job. 🙂

  68. The league needs to take responsibility for all of this, the league doesn’t follow its on protocols in regards to the game balls. They need to now, make every team aware of the procedures, and make all testing procedures before,during and post game available to the public. PSI is now in the vocabulary of non football fans and everyone now thinks that a games outcome is greatly determined by the PSI. This is all on the league, not one single player. You only fix this by being transparent with the players, owners, media and fans moving forward.

  69. “letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:34 PM
    quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:09 PM

    Apparently u dont understand what the AEI report means. Its their opinion that the Well’s science is off. There is no 100% fact either way. And lets say the AEI report is right, all that says is that the weather COULD have deflated balls, it does not say it DEFINITELY did. Even if cold weather could do this (which seems wierd that over all the years no qb has complained about a deflated football-especially Aaron Rodgers who likes his at the full 13.5 psi and plays in the frozen tundra- if his balls drop to 11 or 10.5 he will absolutely notice it) but even if temperature COULD cause deflation, that doesnt mean the pats are off the hook. There are still txt from ball boys referring to himself as the deflator, complaining about how crazy brady is about his PSI, saying they should go to ESPN (which means something wrong is going on), the ball boy taking the balls to the ONE place in the stadium without cameras, brady refusing to turn over information, calling the ball boy 6 times after the game. These are all signs of guilt. If brady is 100% innocent then why call the ball boy? ?who cares? He’s innocent right? No need to get ur story straight if there is no wrong doing.”

    You clearly didn’t read the AEI report. It’s not opinion, they ran the ideal gas law equations with the numbers in the Wells report and got different results. The science could not be replicated. Which means its wrong. Not really an opinion.

  70. getakluwe says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:34 PM

    Belicheat.
    ****
    Pretty much says it all.

    —————–

    Show me the asterisks and his unkind nick name in the NFL history books and I will agree with you. Until then, enjoy your hatred!

  71. Its obvious Brady did it, its obvious the Pats are not capable of winning without cheating, its obvious the Pats have a culture of corruption from the owner to the ball boys, and its obvious their fans know their franchise is a disgrace. I won’t engage with these loser fans who blame everyone else for their pathetic cheating team’s habitual cheating. When everyone hates you and is disgusted by you, its not the rest of the world’s problem, its a you problem. Clean up your act and win a legit title, otherwise the Pats will get no respect, respect is earned. Deal with the tainted legacy, losers!

  72. “Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?”

    —————————————————

    Here is the problem with comments that refer to “how do you explains”, such as bathroom breaks, memorabilia, deflator name and text messages …

    You can start with ANY end result and then play the scenario out in reverse to reach any and every possible desired conclusion.

    Here are some examples:

    Bathroom break: (Anti Patriot response): He ducked into the bathroom to deflate the footballs after they were inspected! (Pro Patriot response): He had to take a leak before the game and didn’t want to leave the balls unattended.

    Memorabilia: (Anti Patriot response): That was his payoff for taking the risk of deflating the balls after they were inspected! (Pro Patriots response): Most all star players give gifts to low paid players like equipment managers and office workers.

    Deflator nickname: (Anti Patriot response): That proves he deflates footballs after they are inspected! (Pro Patriot response): They over inflate the balls, then the “deflator” deflates them to 12.5 before inspection.

    Text Messages: (Anti Patriot response): Why were there all of a sudden a bunch of text messages back and forth between Brady and the equipment guy after the AFC Championship, but NONE at any time prior to that? That proves they were conspiring to cover things up! (Pro Patriot response): If there was an ongoing diabolical plan to regularly alter the footballs after inspection, wouldn’t they have had some ongoing communication all along? And then when the mess hit the fan, immediately suspend all communications?

    This is exactly why you have to rely on the science and not the how do you explains. Pro Patriot, anti Patriot or indifferent … you can’t deny any of what I just said.

  73. to the guy who asked if the science proves why the the ball guy went to the bathroom

    the answer is a resounding NO!!!

    but the cameras do prove why he went to the bathroom, as he had to alleviate himself and the room where he would normally go to the bathroom, where the balls are stored was jammed with NFL employees

    despite Ted Wells claiming he snuck off, the cameras showed him clearly weaving through tons of refs and NFL employees to leave the room in plane site, as well as passing a high ranking NFL employee upon leaving the room with no comments as to why he had the balls in hand

    just please don’t read the wells report as you wouldn’t want to have to debate with facts

  74. All this stuff is irrelevant. Its a matter of did then circumvent the rules and let air out of the balls. Not what the air pressure in the balls were. All this is a smokescreen to confuse the issue. It appears to be working.

  75. Goodell will (a) reluctantly throw Wells under the bus, (b) come up with a committee approach to first investigating problems like this and Bountygate (1 owner, 1 union rep, 1 independent third party evaluator agreed by both) with the Commis. acting on their recommendation or convening a new group of 3. Saves (some) face, preserves (some) authority.

  76. “Bringing your phone, Tom?”

    Only if Goodell, Garsi, Pash, & Kensil bring theirs…
    —————————–

    The difference is that none of them are under investigation for anything. The Patriots and their institutional cheating has caused them to be investigated.

    And they never asked Brady for his cell phone. ONLY printed out messages vetted by his attorney between him and the 2 stooges. If he’s not guilty of anything, there should be nothing to hide.

  77. Actually, the biggest question is whether Brady will finally cooperate.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Neurotic BELIEF is a very hard thing to let go of. People who suffer from this also have a tendency to suffer from NPD as well.

    Goodell BELIEVES he is right, and so do the haters. Their belief system is flawed however, since it is on a foundation of sand (jealousy, hate, INFLATED ego, etc..).

    Brady has already been exonerated. It is only a matter of Goodell COOPERATING with the Facts on his own accord or for a Judge to explain LAWFULLY how real it is.

  78. Wells and Goodell simply “cooked the books” to make the Pats look guilty to the lazy, uninformed public who spend more time on “tweeting” and “instagramming” then they ever did hitting the books in school……….nevermind reading a 150 plus page report by Wells. If you read the report then you will see that finding Brady “guilty” was simply absurd. Now, he may very well be guilty, but guess what? There’s no proof in the report to say that he is. Period.

  79. Isn’t it interesting that neither Mortensen nor Kravitz seem to care that they were mislead at best and in Mortensen’s case fed a lie at the origins of deflategate?

    Apparently, neither of them have seen professional merit in coming clean as to who leaked to them and what exactly was said. Nor are any other reporters interesting in reporting the true origins of deflategate. I guess reporters badger the public but not each other.

    Wells, Mr. Independent, didn’t include that information in his “independent report”. You see, facts were irrelevant to Wells but innuendo mattered.

    Alas, the Brady appeal will resemble the Scopes Monkey Trial. Brady will be defended by his own Clarence Darrow, Jeffrey Kessler, but science, logic, and truth will lose to an institution’s need to defend the indefensible unless Goodell surprises us all,exonerates Brady, and apologizes.

  80. When is someone going to demand the commissioner to explain how he wasted five million dollars on an equipment violation that more probable than not never happened.

  81. megatronownsyou says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:10 PM

    Shocking that a conservative organization that probably has ties to Kraft would support a group of liars and cheaters
    -no one ever
    =======================

    So you are saying we should all believe the people who were also paid to tell us smoking is not harmful (you know, the same ones in the Wells report that said footballs were deflated). Yeah, taking money from big tobacco must be a lefty thing, huh? You make no sense.

  82. All this stuff is irrelevant. Its a matter of did then circumvent the rules and let air out of the balls. Not what the air pressure in the balls were. All this is a smokescreen to confuse the issue.
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    These comments are both HILARIOUS and SAD.

    Amazing how powerful hate & jealousy mixed with BELIEF becomes an immovable object in the minds of people.

    No LACK of evidence will cause them to come to their senses as they choose to believe & feed from those that have control over the flow of false & manipulated info.

    What most people do not realize is that the General Public are being Tested to see how easily the News Media along with Corrupt Power can sway the masses.

    Pitchforks & Torches are more desirable then LOGIC, REASON & FACTS.

    How simple & dangerous modern society has devolved.

  83. Its clear that the ball boys deflated the footballs..does brady want us to think they did so on their own?…..give him his 6 games suspension and lets move on…..end of story…

  84. “Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator?”

    Either science happened AND tampering happened OR only science happened. If science can explain within error of uncertainty the pressure of the balls, then that means tampering did NOT happen. period.

    For the scuba divers out there, if you saw Tom Brady text that said “I regularly dive 50 meters, take a deep breath of air and surface w/o exhaling” would you assume that science did not happen and give it a shot? OR would you read ideal gas law and exhale on your way up?

    If you are a scuba diver and pats hater, please explain…

  85. upper23 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:53 PM

    All this stuff is irrelevant. Its a matter of did then circumvent the rules and let air out of the balls. Not what the air pressure in the balls were. All this is a smokescreen to confuse the issue. It appears to be working.
    ———

    Typical hater logic.

    If you disregard what the air pressure in the footballs were , just how do you prove that someone circumvented the rules and let air out of the footballs?

  86. Yes….Goodell who is known to be very close with Robert Kraft decided that he was going to go on a witch hunt on his buddies team. Makes perfect sense.

    There is a reason Kraft dropped the issue at the owners meetings. The owners themselves told him he was a clown for trying to continue to play the charade of “deflating” referring to weight loss. It’s clear they told him to stop with the act.

    Now all Brady has to do is the same thing or provide printouts of the text messages. Pretty easy thing to do, especially if you are innocent. It would be a golden opportunity to tell Goodell to “shove it” and reclaim his tainted image. Instead he hides. For obvious reason.

  87. So much for a fair, unbiased appeal process.

    Goodell is hearing the appeal and the guy that made $5 mil. for a shoddy report in the biggest conflict of interest in history will be right by his side. Seems legit.

    Why even bother with this dog and pony show? Can this thing just get to a real court now please?

  88. Florio, so you really believe the “AEI report looms over Brady appeal hearing”?

    Last I noticed Goodell, the NFL, and NFL.com have publicly ignored the AEI report, like they have most of the scientific evidence that exonerates Brady. Heck, the NFL doesn’t even understand how to arrive at a “statistical probability”; it just understands what finding it needed under the CBA to give Goodell the right to exercise control over the evidence (or lack thereof) and the penalty.

    This hearing is the definition off a kangaroo court.

  89. If you guys think Brady is only good because of deflated footballs, then why suspend him at all? By your logic he wouldn’t even be able to play with regular footballs (despite doing so in the superbowl) so why not just let him play?

    Just more logic of trolls who would rather listen to Mike Francesa’s scientific expertise over someone with a PhD in an actual science related field with respect to “Deflategate.”

    Take away Bradys suspension and return the draft picks.

  90. When has Goodell ever used common sense… Money hungry for the owners(trying to force the SuperBowl entertainers to turn over a portion of the earnings for the rest of year) and mean and vindictive. Brady will turn over his phone or else attitude….

  91. That’s way too funny,a shady report ! You mean the one from a guy that Kraft praised as being fair minded and was totally on board with ?? That is until things didn’t go his way.BTW,the AEI report was bought and paid for by Kraft.He is one of their sponsors.

  92. Neurotic BELIEF is a very hard thing to let go of.
    ===================================

    I know…have you seen some of the crazy theories these Pats apologists are selling in order to help the cover-up?

  93. Goodell’s always had it out for the Patriots, and I say that as someone who has no stake in the race – I’m a Texans fan, and an Oilers fan before that.

    The Jets got caught taping the Patriots and got thrown out of Foxboro. The NFL handed down no punishment.

    The next year, Eric Mangini – who was coach when the Jets were taping the Pats the year prior – squeals that NE is taping the Jets. Cue Spygate.

    Then there’s this entire “controversy”, which boils down to one thing – the NFL wants ratings. Yes, you can say that it’s the Colts trying to win off the field what they never can (and never will) on the field, but it’s all at the NFL’s feet.

    It’s because you have some idiots that believe any attention is good attention running the entire show. There’s a reason Kraft didn’t fight this, and it’s the same reason he stood up for Goodell after the Ray Rice scenario – anyone with a bit of power challenging the current leadership will likely cause the whole rotten structure to come tumbling down.

    They want the ratings. They want to hear people talk. They want outlets like to keep harping on the same thing month after month instead of the MLB, NBA, and NHL. It isn’t really about cheating or about tampering with the ball, otherwise the Packers and Panthers would’ve been slapped for it this year. But that won’t get people talking – the current Super Bowl champions, on the other hand, will.

  94. Complete biased reporting.

    1) The AEI report is full of speculative assertations & opinions. There isn’t any actual testing documented within it to substantiate any point made within it.

    2) The AEI is nothing more than an advocacy group whose support can be easily purchased with direct donations &/or mutual investment joint ventures.

    3) Kraft Foundation is listed as key funder of the AEI. A few Patriot personnel have tried to suggest that this “Kraft Foundation” is different than the Patriots “Kraft Foundation”. Apart from the odd coincidence of the name of a primary funder being the one & same as the owner of the Patriots is also the fact that no proof of variance has been provided to the public to verify this claim. And given the fact that Kraft previously tried to use his Foundations money to coerce input by a mathematical scientist who works for him.

    4) The AEI rebuttal of the Wells Report is smoke & mirrors, meant to divert attention away from the silver bullet, red handed proof received in the text messages from the 2 patriot personnel which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady was involved in a conspiracy to cheat.

    Brady is Guilty & doesn’t have the integrity to face the public & admit he made a bad choice. He deserves to be banished from the NFL for life.

  95. Now that Well’s expert’s report has been proven unreliable, the question is this: Was Brady’s “general awareness” that footballs were at some point deflated (remember, the the “deflater” reference in the text messages was from before the 2014-2015 season) enough to satisfy the “preponderance of evidence” standard for finding that Brady was guilty?

    Goodell has backed himself into a corner and can’t do much more than cut the suspension in half. So we have to judge.

  96. chuckshontaspads says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:58 AM

    Brady’s lawyers have literally hundreds of these reports by scientists and mathematicians that prove that the balls were not tampered with… Ex Jet Goodell has exponant and Nye the science guy….I am sure ex Jet Goodell will look at all the evidence and go with the science guy..he is that biased and that stupid!

    ——————-

    give Nye a break, he was working off the early ridiculously bogus numbers the league leaked to make the Patriots look bad, it’s true he farked up the ideal gas law but he was just making off the cuff remarks not doing the kind of analysis the various labs did.

  97. “Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator?”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    YES it does. Shameful that you do not know why.

    5th Grade stuff here people.

    Science teaches us that you INLATE and DEFLATE footballs, basketballs, volleyballs, beachballs, bicycle tires, rafts and anything that needs measured air pressure for its designed purpose.

    So Aaron Rodgers ball boy’s nickname could be INFLATOR since Rodgers prefers his footballs at 14.0 psi – illegal pressure by Rule 17.

    Tom Brady has stated in his text messages and on National TV that he likes his footballs at 12.5 -13.0 psi – the LEGAL low range of NFL Rule 17.

    5th Grade Science also explains why Mother Nature, i.e. Drop in Temperature, is also called the DEFLATOR.

    Your choice haters – Continue embarrassing yourselves and giving us the best laughs or
    WISE UP.

  98. “profootball13 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:27 PM
    Simple question: Why won’t Brady let his lawyer release a copy of his texts pertaining to this issue to Goodell?

    Best Regards”

    Because he is one of the leaders of the players union (Example: Brady V NFL, 2011) and would never set the precedent that players must give up information from a personal cell phone in work-related investigations. That is not a requirement of the CBA.

  99. “All this stuff is irrelevant. Its a matter of did then circumvent the rules and let air out of the balls. Not what the air pressure in the balls were. All this is a smokescreen to confuse the issue. It appears to be working.”

    ——————————————-

    This comment makes absolutely no sense. Unless I’m having a stroke.

    Or is it sarcasm …

  100. quizlingclinic says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:11 PM

    “No no, according to the Pats the fat man referred to himself as the Deflator b/c of his weight (which makes no sense), its not b/c he deflates balls from 13psi-12.5 psi.” ********
    If you don’t know the facts, you shouldn’t be commenting. The Pats said the “weight issue” was a SECONDARY use of the term. The main use of the term related to his job, which was to actually deflate footballs. Imagine a guy who deflates footballs being called the deflator. How ridiculous. (For the haters not smart enough- that last sentence was sarcasm.)

  101. @quizlingclinic says: Jun 22, 2015 12:11 PM

    “johnodocks says: Jun 22, 2015 12:06 PM
    Does the science explain why an equipment guy was called the Deflator or why he went to a private room after getting the game balls from the refs or why Brady called him several times the day after the deflated ball issue was brought up or why Brady gave him memorabilia or why Brady wouldn’t let his own counsel extract relevant texts from Brady’s phone for the investigation?”

    No, but common sense does:
    He was called Deflator because the balls are at 13 PSI when the come out of the box. His job was to get them to 12.5 (legal)

    He went to a “private room” to take a leak for less than 2 min.

    All players give memorabelia away to clubhouse guys
    _________________________________

    Funny thing is, that’s still cheating. The balls aren’t suppose to be tampered with after the officials qualify them. This argument, like the AEI report, is just more flawed thinking by flawed thinkers.

  102. megatronownsyou says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:10 PM
    Shocking that a conservative organization that probably has ties to Kraft would support a group of liars and cheaters
    -no one ever

    ——————————-
    You, sir, should check your facts before opening your mouth. Kraft is actually a major donor to liberal candidates, hosting fundraisers for people like John Kerry. Not exactly the usual ally for a conservative think tank.

  103. AEI. The think tank that brought you the Iraq War. Glad that they are involved with this.

  104. Guidstar.org actually lists 16 different “Kraft foundations” guess how many of them have to do with Robert Kraft , owner of the Patriots?

    ONE

  105. if this was Peyton Manning going through this exact same process with this exact same evidence presented, every single patriots fan who lives on these message boards would be tearing him apart left and right as obviously guilty, a cheater, etc etc. And every single person in here knows this.

  106. “dumbaseinstien says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:23 PM
    Complete biased reporting.

    1) The AEI report is full of speculative assertations & opinions. There isn’t any actual testing documented within it to substantiate any point made within it.

    2) The AEI is nothing more than an advocacy group whose support can be easily purchased with direct donations &/or mutual investment joint ventures.

    3) Kraft Foundation is listed as key funder of the AEI. A few Patriot personnel have tried to suggest that this “Kraft Foundation” is different than the Patriots “Kraft Foundation”. Apart from the odd coincidence of the name of a primary funder being the one & same as the owner of the Patriots is also the fact that no proof of variance has been provided to the public to verify this claim. And given the fact that Kraft previously tried to use his Foundations money to coerce input by a mathematical scientist who works for him.

    4) The AEI rebuttal of the Wells Report is smoke & mirrors, meant to divert attention away from the silver bullet, red handed proof received in the text messages from the 2 patriot personnel which proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady was involved in a conspiracy to cheat.

    Brady is Guilty & doesn’t have the integrity to face the public & admit he made a bad choice. He deserves to be banished from the NFL for life.”

    Why did JJ say the balls were supposed to be 13 psi if they were deflating footballs? Remember, the deflator nickname came in May 2014, and the 13 psi text came in October 2014. This is the only proof we have of any football psi discussion in the text messages, it comes well after the deflator nickname, and it completely contradicts the theory that this scheme actually existed. If the deflator nickname is based on him deflating footballs, why did they use the term deflate in regards to “deflate and give someone that jacket”? Could it be because the deflator nicname was actually in regards to his torso size?

    Your caught “red-handed” via the text messages explanation is completely contradicted in those same text messages. Which casts doubt upon all of your other points. Your opinion on AEI means nothing if your opinion of the innocence/guilt in deflategate is based upon multiple contradicting points.

  107. Simple question: Why won’t Brady let his lawyer release a copy of his texts pertaining to this issue to Goodell?

    Best Regards
    —————

    Because when you know you are guilty, you don’t give the investigators damning evidence to self incriminate yourself.

  108. RegisHawk says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:21 PM
    Neurotic BELIEF is a very hard thing to let go of.
    ===================================
    I know…have you seen some of the crazy theories these Pats apologists are selling in order to help the cover-up?
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    This is too funny.
    This guy does not even realize he just proved his own error.

  109. One of the funniest things to me is that no one even bothers to look up the connection between deflate and losing weight. It gets laughed off without a thought. Of course, if you actually search for “deflate” and “belly” or “weight,” you get around 181,000 hits on Google, with countless article titles like “Deflate your weight” or “How to deflate a bloated belly.”

  110. If you can’t replicate scientific results from the same data, the results are either wrong or a fraud. I had been of the opinion that TB couldn’t sue for defamation because it requires a showing of malicious intent. The more I see about this the more I think he has a pretty good argument to show malice. As an aside I will tend to believe the report that can explain the science in 16 pages over the one that takes 100+, it makes me think the author is trying to sell himself on it.

  111. Wow – this subject really brings out the arrogant, better than everyone attitude that is so prevalent in the northeast part of this country. Quick reminder – regardless of the outcome of this appeal – YOU LOUD MOUTHED FANS HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING! Yes, the Patriots are very good. You are not on their team. Stop it. Please.

  112. Because he is one of the leaders of the players union (Example: Brady V NFL, 2011) and would never set the precedent that players must give up information from a personal cell phone in work-related investigations. That is not a requirement of the CBA.
    ——————-

    WRONG!!! Failure to cooperate with an investigation is a requirement of the CBA that can be punished. It doesn’t have to list every specific detail. Especially when the phone wasn’t requested. Only the pertinent messages or evidence. This clearly falls under the umbrella of the CBA.

    Sorry!

  113. Amazing after the fact thinking by NE Fats Fans – no typo meant.

    “More probable than not” is the operative message in the allegations. This is not criminal court.

    Take off you blinders…..

  114. skooter519 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:03 PM

    “And years ago the NFL implemented a change that said there does NOT have to be a ‘smoking gunn’ in order to give out a punishment, just enough to prove ‘more probably than not’ the player is guilty.”

    AEI, HeadSmart Labs, Back Picks and other knowledgeable and impartial groups, using the data in the Wells Report, have found fatal errors in the analysis contained in that report. Rather than proving that there was tampering, these organizations argue that the evidence shows the loss of pressure in the Patriots’ footballs was not statistically different from the loss of pressure in the Colts’ footballs (meaning there was no tampering).

    The Wells Report seems to the the outlier here, reaching conclusions that are substantially different from those of all the other reputable groups. So, based on the “more probable than not” standard, it is more probable than not that the Wells report got in wrong.

  115. alltee says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:24 PM

    3. the aei group is funded by the kraft foundation, its very clear that bob kraft funds them as we don’t think its possible for 2 people to have the same name in the USA and not be related. this is all the proof we need, and bob kraft is forsure guilty in all this as he has proven to be of very low intelligence for not collecting his revenue checks from kraft foods as they must be related, no more debate here
    ========================================

    Can you really be this ignorant?

    The only relation Bob Kraft has to Kraft foods is he may like to eat saltines or cheese. Kraft is into paper and packaging. Nothing, Nada, Zero, ZIP now or ever with Kraft foods

    Politically Kraft is a Democrat – no question about that, AEI is middle to right leaning and is definitely Republican leaning.

    Exerpt from the Boston Globe in an interview with one of the authors of the AEI study on June 21st. written by Ben Volin.

    But the two economists said they have zero ties to the Patriots, and performed their study on their own volition.

    “Nobody called in a favor. We have not had any communication with the Pats ever in our lives, not just now,” Hassett said. “Nobody coordinated with us on timing or anything. We would not accept pay from either side going forward. We just want to help both sides figure out what the truth is.”

  116. I honestly don’t know what Brady’s options are, but I hope Goodell upholds the suspension and Brady takes this to court. Expose this the Goodell and the Ted Well’s Report for what it is: a frame job.

    And I’ll go as far as saying I hope all parties are ordered to hand in text messages, phone records and emails. If Brady is telling the truth then that’ll clear his name. But in the process I’d like to see if the NFL and Wells conspired to nail Brady to the wall regardless if he is telling the truth. Meaning, was the League office was more concerned with cleaning its image after AP, Rice and Bountygate.

  117. dumbaseinstien says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:23 PM

    Complete biased reporting.

    1) The AEI report is full of speculative assertations & opinions. There isn’t any actual testing documented within it to substantiate any point made within it.

    2) The AEI is nothing more than an advocacy group whose support can be easily purchased with direct donations &/or mutual investment joint ventures.
    ——————

    1) The Wells report is full of speculative assertations & opinions. There isn’t any actual testing documented within it to substantiate any point made within it.

    2) Exponent is nothing more than an advocacy group whose support can be easily purchased with direct donations &/or mutual investment joint ventures.

    See how easy that was?

  118. I would like to say this. Incognito got screwed.

    How can anyone trust Wells, after what happened with Incognito. Incognito fully expected his texts to exonerate him. He treated Martin like a close friend(which is why he was so unfiltered)

    Incognito got stabbed in the back by Martin, and the Wells report buried Incognito.

  119. thermanmerman99 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:40 PM

    if this was Peyton Manning going through this exact same process with this exact same evidence presented, every single patriots fan who lives on these message boards would be tearing him apart left and right as obviously guilty, a cheater, etc etc. And every single person in here knows this.
    ———–

    as a Patriots fan, I can honestly say I would probably be doing that. However, it would be mostly for the fun of cranking Broncos & Colts fans, not because I actually believed it.

    Which is exactly what I believe a lot of people are doing, because I really don’t understand how some people can actually believe some of the stuff they write.

  120. steelercrazy says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:47 PM
    AEI is just one report, plenty of other reports back up the Wells report.

    —-

    Actually no, they don’t. Not one.

  121. steelercrazy says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:47 PM
    AEI is just one report, plenty of other reports back up the Wells report.

    ———————————-
    Why don’t you go ahead and name those reports. While you’re thinking about it (it could be a very long while), remember that all the scientists back in January arguing that cheating must have occurred were going from the bogus PSI data leaked by the NFL in January. No one working with the actual PSI data since their release just a month ago has supported the Wells report science.

  122. When is the investigation into the refs for cheating with the Jets by illegally over inflating a ball to 16psi?

  123. Goodell said 11/12 patriot balls were 2psi under. Wells report says that’s a lie.

    Blandino says he wasn’t informed of the accusations by the colts before the AFCCG. Wells report says that is a lie.

    League office sent an official letter to the Patriots saying one of the footballs was 10.1psi. Wells report says that was a lie.

    Grigson said he didn’t accuse Pats deflating balls before AFCCG. Grigson called himself a liar before the Wells report said that it was a lie.

    Wells report says the Colts admitted to tampering with footballs by sticking a needle in one over and over and over again.

    And it’s the Patriots integrity under question? When the NFL has been caught telling lie after lie after lie?

    We’ll know whether this was about truth or punishing the Patriots success during the appeal. I assume Goodell is going to uphold the whole sentence so they won’t look as bad stealing a 1st round draft pick from the Pats.

    NFL has a disturbing lack of integrity for an organization that pretends to care so much about it.

  124. letmefeelyourlove says:
    Jun 22, 2015 1:46 PM

    So far there is ZERO concrete evidence that weather either did or did not deflate the balls. Not one piece of evidence has said “this is 100% the cold weathers fault” or has said “there is no possible way the weather did this”. AEI has their opinion, wells has theirs and had a princeton professor as well as an achitectual company say that weather cant do this. Either way- we dont know. But regardless of the fact that weather “could” or “may have” done this, we have a lot of other evidence to look at. Texts messages, nicknames, random calls to ball boys who you never speak to, refusing to cooperate, special trips to the bathroom AFTER inspection. So regardless of this he said she said BS between scientists, some say yes its possible and some say no. There is PLENTY of other evidence to show guilt here. Hence Wells saying he cheated, then the Commish reading over all of this and coming to the very hard conclusion that his buddies team has been cheating. If Goodell wanted to screw a team he would pick ANYONE other than the Pats. What should have happened- the leagues takes the rumor about Pats defllating balls serious and sets up a REAL sting. Make sure the balls are measured 100% accurate, follow the ball boy, when he goes into the bathroom then catch him red handed. The NFL did everything possible to help the Pats get away with this but too much other evidence has come up.

  125. Most importantly, AEI has concluded that the “Wells report’s statistical analysis cannot be replicated by performing the analysis as described in the report,”

    How about statistical analysis on the odds a team with a multi-year, well defined fumble rate suddenly cutting it in half and keeping it at that new half rate without changing coaches or QBs?

    That also can’t be replicated.

  126. hairpie2 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 12:01 PM
    How do we get the draft picks that were stolen?
    ———

    You don’t. Your owner admitted guilt by accepting punishment. Your QB should have done the same and nobody would be talking about this now.

  127. “You can’t trust AEI; they are a conservative think tank and everyone knows that changes the laws of physics.”
    “Ok, how about the experiments run by physicists at Carnegie Mellon and MIT that support the finding of no tampering, as reported by the NY Times?”
    “…”
    “Oh, or maybe the Nobel Prize Winner that attacked the Wells Report for-”
    “Cheaters! Cheat cheaty cheaters!”

  128. I’ve never once seen a Patriots fan actually try to respond intelligently to the question of why Brady doesn’t just hand over a copy of any electronic messages between him and the deflator stooges to prove his innocence and move on?

    FEEL FREE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

  129. How about statistical analysis on the odds a team with a multi-year, well defined fumble rate suddenly cutting it in half and keeping it at that new half rate without changing coaches or QBs?

    That also can’t be replicated.
    =============
    Interesting observation. Can your reasoning explain how the Giants cut their INTs in half and just about doubled their passing TDs from one year to the next? That just happened over the last two years and they did it with the same coach and QB. I mean, this is exactly what you are saying about the Patriots, isn’t it?

    If I asked you if Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin were cheaters because of Eli’s TD and INT turnarounds, you would laugh at me, wouldn’t you?

  130. I know the clown car at the circus can hold a lot of clowns but after reading the nonsense spouted here were’re gonna need a bigger car.

    For example:

    The science doesn’t matter – they have the texts.
    If the science doesn’t matter, WHY(???) is half the Wells report about the science? The proof(?) in the Wells report revolves around the difference in deflation between the Patriots Footballs and the Colts Footballs. Do you HONESTLY think there would be any punishment if the Colts and Patriots footballs deflated at the same levels?

    Now what is truly important is that the Wells report has errors in the science. Attack AEI all you want to support your bias but what is truly relevant is are they correct. All AEI did was try to replicate the methods in the Wells report. They did statistical modeling and tested all potential scenarios. What AEI found was that the methods described in the Wells report did not produce the results. AEI was able to produce the results by using what they termed flawed modeling. In summary AEI described the Wells report science deeply flawed and unreliable. What it is really is fraudulent, Exponent is either incompetent or fixing the results. Either way reflects poorly and WHY are they not defending themselves after getting slammed in the NY Times and Washington Post among other.

    In scientist you need to accurately describe your methods and the results should be replicated. Science isn’t luck or what you want it to be, However it is still true whether you believe it or not.

    What AEI believes happened as do many other highly qualified experts such as the U of Chicago physicist, was that the difference in deflation had everything to do with the fact that the Colts footballs were gauged later in the half AFTER they had warmed up. According to AEI and the ideal gas law, the Colts footballs COULD not have been at the high PSI levels if they were gauged right after the Patriots footballs. The report also states that they ran out of time and they only gauged 4 Colts footballs which also ties to a reading at the end of the half.

    Case closed. Nothing happened!!!

  131. ariani1985 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 2:48 PM
    I’ve never once seen a Patriots fan actually try to respond intelligently to the question of why Brady doesn’t just hand over a copy of any electronic messages between him and the deflator stooges to prove his innocence and move on?

    FEEL FREE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

    1. Maybe he was told by his agent not to do it because it would set a bad precedent. It’s a personal phone.

    2. They already have JJ and JM phones so any text from Brady to either one of them would be on their phones.

  132. FEEL FREE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION
    ———-
    I’ll take a stab at it. If Brady handed over just those messages between him and the deflator, and there was no smoking gun there, people like you would say he left parts of the conversation out. You would want all his records and his phone. If the investigators had his phone and access to all his records, you would have his private moments with his family. The information and pictures and whatever is on the phone would be leaked.

    Its a private phone with private information on it that Brady didn’t want posted all over the internet. He didn’t have to turn it over. It wasn’t a legal matter.

  133. By the way for all the geniuses asking what Brady was hiding not giving up emails to the equipment manager and ball boy.. nothing. If he sent them then they would of also been on the phones of those gentlemen and since the NFL did view those phones obviously there were none.

  134. flash1287 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 3:05 PM

    1.- the whole ‘precedent’ thing is BS lawyer jargon used to deflect the situation. There is no precedent, there is evidence u cheated, now cooperate. I think the bigger ‘precedent’ he is setting is that players dont have to cooperate with investigations. So thats awesome, now players can do what they want and just ignore requests from the NFL. As for his “personal info getting out”, wells didnt even ask to take control of the phone. Just to have Brady’s ppl look at it and turn over any info pertinent to the investigation- so ZERO chance of things being leaked- thats again just BS used as an excuse

    2- Yes they had JJ and JM’s phone records, but did they have Bills or Krafts?!?!?! What if brady had texted them about this and he implicates them as well? Its a WHOLE lot more serious then, so if i was brady and wasnt sure what he had sent to either of them then id never give up my phone either. Its admitting guilt, but at least he isnt turning over Bill and Kraft.

  135. I’ve never once seen a Patriots fan actually try to respond intelligently to the question of why Brady doesn’t just hand over a copy of any electronic messages between him and the deflator stooges to prove his innocence and move on?

    FEEL FREE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION

    __________________________________

    1. he is the owner of several successful businesses which have confidential information that the NFL isn’t entitled to

    2. he has personal information he doesn’t want the nfl seeing

    3. the nfl has proven to be riddled with leaks of information and misinformation and could never guarantee they could keep his information private, and they have leaked so much false information that it would be impossible for brady to convince people it wasn’t true once the NFL had his phone in the event they continued to leak bad information

    4. why would he cooperate with an investigation that was clearly set out to get him at all costs. this was evident when wells was interviewing numerous people, including when wells kept asking the walt Anderson to admit its possible he didn’t use he gauge with the logo, after several attempts of walt saying he doesn’t think its possible he agreed in the sense that anything is possible and wells ran with the other gauge. mat kenzil went up to the ptriots staff on the sideline during the AFC game and told several patriots staff that they are busted and screwed, this is before the report was even started or anyone had an idea of many facts. the NFL sent out a letter to the patriots telling them that the balls were 2 PSI below which was inaccurate, the NFl leaked several false information and then sent the patriots new information later and made them sign a non disclosure agreement preventing them from correcting the information and proving that the NFL wanted the misinformation out and in the public eye. sounds like an investigation someone should want to cooperate with

    5. they already had any text information between brady and many of the people involved as they had the other peoples phones and you only need one persons phone to see conversations between 2 parties.

    now that I have answered your question with several facts that are non debatable will you answer a question,

    why would anyone cooperate in that situation??

  136. gobolts says:
    Jun 22, 2015 2:56 PM

    Eli’s career #’s are very similar to this yrs stats. So how can you possibly compare the patriots amazing fumble turn around from 00-06 and then from 07-current? Eli’s ave td’s- 26, he had 30 this yr, his average int’s 18, he had 14 this year. So it was a slightly above average yr, nothing to look twice at. Now a team for 7 yrs never being in the top 20 in fumbling and then starting in ’07 for the last 8 yrs never dropping out of the top four is something to look twice at. My guess is that this yr their fumble stats will look like they did from 00-16. And the pats fans will chalk it up to coincidence, just like every other facet of this deflategate. Heads in the sand………heads in the sand.

  137. Wells must be on pins and needles right now. I’m sure his technical team has already acknowledged that they have screwed up. Wells of course made it harder on himself by insisting on that controlled sham of an open conference call and stating that all permutations were covered. What’s he going to say tomorrow?
    These lawyers have to hate being the focus of attention when they made a mistake. It will be interesting to see if he speaks with the same fire and brimstone chastising conviction during his next public address as he did during the conference call.
    Remember he’s also the guy who told the reporter that to be a good trial attorney you have to make the complex simple and be able to tell a good story. Nothing about integrity or the truth. It will be interesting to see how he spins this one.

  138. ‘Make em Soft Boys” that’s all Brady has ever said. he probably told that to everyone. Make em Soft. but how soft? proving he instructed the balls to be deflated to an ILLEGAL level is impossible. Ruining his legacy should require more than probably and possibly. Unless of course you just don’t like him. In that case, pile on.

  139. patriots fumble rate theory was proven to be wrong, as it originally only tracked fumbles lost and not total fumbles

    patriots have fumbled less on the road over the same years and its home teams that have control of the ball after the refs checked them

    patriots aren’t the best in the league at fumbles with an average of 6 teams being better every year, if deflation is what is needed for their low fumble rate what are the other 6 teams doing

    people pushing the fumble theory are the same people claiming aei is supported by bob kraft through the kraft foundation,. people that like to run with tidbits of information and have no interests in seeing the facts or that these stories were disproven and all the people who posted them have since retracted their stories

    one thing is clear and very easily researchable is the retraction on all these stories, so when you are screaming this stories as facts you are basically saying
    “hey debate with me im very unintelligent and uninformed”

  140. thebifforacle says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:56 AM
    Bringing your phone, Tom?

    _____________________

    Amigo,

    If Bradyd did text those two NE Pat employees, the NFL already has Brady’s texts as they are a two way street.

    If I send you a text, that text can be retrieved from my phone or your phone. NFL should have just asked for text records and not the messages. This is the easiest way to show what happened. Apparently the NFL opted for the cloak and dagger route.

  141. I love the argument “why didn’t he cooperate and hand in his cell” or “he was suspended for not turning in his personal cell phone”.

    So did you say the same thing when Brett Farve refused to turn in his cell phone when he was being investigated for sending pictures of his junk to someone other than his wife? Something that could be viewed sexual harassment.

    It wasn’t his first offense as he as already in trouble for pills early in his career.. Oh and he only got a 50k fine…

    But that’s none of my business..

  142. locoengineer says:
    Jun 22, 2015 3:28 PM

    Every QB has openly said they are VERY strict with their balls and how they are prepared for game day. Eli spends months getting his ready. Do you honestly think all brady said was “make em soft”? Do you think he doesnt have a certain PSI he prefers? Every QB knows exactly how they like their balls, but Brady is the only one who generalizes it and just says “make em soft” hahahahahahaha

  143. poweredbylinux says:
    Jun 22, 2015 3:44 PM

    Your comparing apples and oranges. brett was invovled in a personal matter that would affect his marriage and that in no way shape or form was tainting the game itself. It was just off field conduct. Was it bad? yes. Can we compare it to Brady? no. Im pretty sure no one asked to see pics of Bradys junk.

  144. 1. he is the owner of several successful businesses which have confidential information that the NFL isn’t entitled to

    2. he has personal information he doesn’t want the nfl seeing
    ————————

    Well that’s nice. But unfortunately, the ONLY thing he needed to provide was messages between him and the 2 deflator stooges that were relevant to the case, not his entire personal cell phone.

    Sorry!

  145. ariani1985 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 4:17 PM

    Well that’s nice. But unfortunately, the ONLY thing he needed to provide was messages between him and the 2 deflator stooges that were relevant to the case, not his entire personal cell phone.

    Sorry!

    ——–

    and if there are none, then what does he turn over?

    if he sends one of them a text….guess what…..they receive it. so Wells would already have it.

    why is this so hard to understand?

  146. They are asking for Brady’s messages to make sure they correspond with the one’s sent to the other stooges. The stooges could have deleted some of the messages. By having Brady’s as well, they can see if there are any holes or missing messages that one has but the other does not.

    Pretty simple to figure out.

  147. You mean lame. What kinda idiot would believe this muck? It all rests on a convenient timeline that happens to kick in as the Colts balls gets tested. This was message board fodder (here) before this neo-con group suddenly took an interest.

  148. ariani1985 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 4:51 PM

    They are asking for Brady’s messages to make sure they correspond with the one’s sent to the other stooges. The stooges could have deleted some of the messages. By having Brady’s as well, they can see if there are any holes or missing messages that one has but the other does not.

    Pretty simple to figure out.
    ——–

    they did a forensic imaging analysis on their phones and retrieved messages that had been deleted. not a single one from Brady (that is, not one that was juicy enough to make it into the Wells report)

  149. The grad student from the sports science institute in Pittsburgh with the youtube video demonstrating the Pats balls were exactly where the ideal gas law predicts that they should have been should have been the end of this. He performed his experiments weeks after the scandal broke.

    It’s so damning of the media that no one immediately questioned the Wells report. Nothing in the Wells report can alter the laws of physics, yet somehow it was taken as definitive by our low information media elite. That’s the bigger story, in my opinion.

  150. As far as the fumbles – that can be changed by coaching proper techniques. Read up on the improvement Tiki Barber made from one season to the next simply by changing the way he held the ball.

  151. letsgobuffalo4 – Different infractions, yes. Except one was considered harassment – far worse than “was at least generally aware of activities of Jim McNally and John Jastremski”.

    At the end of the day neither one surrendered their personal cell phones yet one got off with a 50k fine and the other got a four game suspension. Go figure…

  152. The NFL’s case against Brady makes California’s case against O.J. look well thought out.

  153. I think it will be very interesting to see if Brady uses the AEI report or any of the alleged others. His side would be not serving Brady’s best interests if they just accepted these reports and not have hired their own experts. I find it very odd that these so called professional companies are totally disrespecting another company in such a juvenile fashion. Be prepared Pat fans for Brady’s side not to use these other reports.

  154. Also of the two teams the second to last and last balls tested respectively were the lowest ones. Some sign of warming right?

  155. Patriot haters are irrational.

    Here’s your proof:

    joestemme says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:57 AM

    Again, with the nitpicking excuses by Patriots fans and their apologists.

    There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.

    There are the text messages.

    There has still never been a blanket denial than no deflation ever occured. In fact, the Patriots main argument is that “everybody cheats”.

    Tom Brady was one of the two main QBs who fought hard for the ability to manipulate footballs in the first place.

    If it walks like a deflated duck, and talks like a deflated duck – it’s a deflated duck.

  156. joestemme
    Jun 22, 2015, 11:57 AM EDT
    Again, with the nitpicking excuses by Patriots fans and their apologists. There are reports of deflated balls NOT just for this one game, but, for several.
    If it walks like a deflated duck, and talks like a deflated duck – it’s a deflated duck.
    —————

    Gotta love the Haters. “So even though the footballs weren’t deflated in this game, and there’s never been one documented case of illegal inflation/deflation aside from the NFL’s own officials giving Brady a 16psi football against the Jets, he should be suspended because other jealous teams THINK he MAY have deflated footballs in other games”

    That says it all right there. And they have no idea how jealous they sound!

  157. It’d be great if Brady brought in the expert testimony of 4th grader from Peoria little Timmy Jones who’s Science Fair project confirmed that cold temperatures impact the PSI of footballs

    Unfortunately Goodell and Wells will deny the Laws of Physics and insist the earth is flat and the sun revolves around the Earth and Moon

  158. The same people who said we should be greeted as liberators in Iraq. Suspend him 10 games if you are using their report

  159. This was ridiculous. A sting operation run with the skill of 3rd graders. Incredibly embarrassing but the NFL couldn’t do worse. Well, then the “Wells report” comes out. Four months of work, $5 million in charges from Wells, and a bunk scripted “Report.”

    A sting operation that the “Wells report” shows to be a complete farce. Goodell actually doing a great job of fogging the issues that were front burner; concussions, the pathetic handling of the Ray Rice KO, the spousal abuses, PED use and a lot more.

    Tying up the media with a controversy over the PSI of footballs has been great for him. Mike Kensil is getting his revenge on Bill Belichick even though he actually looks like an idiot. By not getting fired, hiding behind Goodell, and standing behind a pathetically inept legal investigation, Mike Kensil has really come out shining. Riding the backs of Hatriot nation has been easy.

    It’s actually great comedy and watching fans of the other 31 teams-united as Hateriot nation-weeping as if they lost children, is pure gold. Making the Superbowl and NFL Championship even sweeter. Jets fans, who haven’t seen their team in the Superbowl since before man landed on the moon, become even more pathetic than normal.

    “Deflategate” is something for Jets fans and many others to hang onto. Beautiful.

  160. limakey says:
    Jun 22, 2015 5:59 PM

    I think it will be very interesting to see if Brady uses the AEI report or any of the alleged others. His side would be not serving Brady’s best interests if they just accepted these reports and not have hired their own experts. I find it very odd that these so called professional companies are totally disrespecting another company in such a juvenile fashion. Be prepared Pat fans for Brady’s side not to use these other reports.
    ————
    They don’t need to use any other report, since the Wells Report gives them all the ammunition they need, and won’t hold up to actual scrutiny of its findings.

  161. “At the end of the day neither one surrendered their personal cell phones yet one got off with a 50k fine and the other got a four game suspension. Go figure…”

    Brady’s offense is cheating, conduct detrimental to the league. In addition, the texts the NFL is asking for are business related, not personal. The fact that brady used his personal phone for official business is his own fault. The favre comparison will not hold up.

    I addition to the texts, brady lied to investigators. Jastremski’s testimony and texts contridict brady’s assertion that he didn’t know mcnally at all. its irrelevant whether he had his nickname wrong. He knew who he was and what his role is.

  162. Somebody obviously doesn’t want this information up as it is the fourth attempted post. I am going to screen shot so I have a record for later. Such a joke it keeps getting taken down.

    Wells received access to any and all team employees cell phones (excluding players). He requested it prior to the investigation and was offered it by the Patriots. Wells even notesin his report that all team employees with whom he requested access to their phones had obliged with no issues. I would assume that he also asked for Krafts and Belichicks. If he didn’t, he was a fool. If he did, he should have all pertinent information needed. He would no longer need Brady’s phone. So he was either incompetent or flexing his power. Which one was it? I sure as hell hope Kessler asks this of him tomorrow.

  163. helmetcatch says:
    Jun 22, 2015 10:34 PM

    “… I addition to the texts, brady lied to investigators. Jastremski’s testimony and texts contridict brady’s assertion that he didn’t know mcnally at all. its irrelevant whether he had his nickname wrong. He knew who he was and what his role is.”

    ********
    Which he testified to! I wish people would become familiar with the facts before they post.

  164. For those of you poo-pooing talk of a sting… You do realize that the ball that was intercepted was measured at least three times by the officials and found to be within the expected PSI each time?(And this was even after the illegal measuring by the Colts ball boy!) Why was there even an investigation after this was learned? There was an investigation because the fix was in- pure and simple.

  165. Pats fans need to quit crying. Accept the truth. Your star QB cheats. Your coach cheats. Both are proven in the minds of the majority. Get used to it.
    The AEI report is without substance. It’s a report about a report. No credabilty. They didn’t do the footwork. Wells did.
    A parasitic move by a lawyer, of all people! (sarcasm intended)

  166. The AEI report LOOMS? Really?? A bought & paid for propoganda piece written by employees of Kraft & released in a perfectly timed advance of the hearing in a blatently obvious & feeble attempt to divert attention away from the smoking gun proof?? That AEI Report? The only thing it looms over is a toilet seat in Goodell’s office, on a little round spinner designed to dispense butt wipes. Thats all that piece of trash is worth…

  167. wk1234 says:
    Jun 22, 2015 11:12 PM

    For those of you poo-pooing talk of a sting… You do realize that the ball that was intercepted was measured at least three times by the officials and found to be within the expected PSI each time?(And this was even after the illegal measuring by the Colts ball boy!) Why was there even an investigation after this was learned? There was an investigation because the fix was in- pure and simple.
    ————-

    Apparently, no one knew, at that point, that cold weather affects the measured air pressure of things that are inflated with air.

    They also didn’t seem to know that each time you measure the pressure of a football, a little bit of air is lost.

    So basically, you had a bunch of stooges making assumptions about things they didn’t really comprehend.

  168. mark4steelers says:
    Jun 23, 2015 1:48 AM

    The AEI report LOOMS? Really?? A bought & paid for propoganda piece written by employees of Kraft & released in a perfectly timed advance of the hearing in a blatently obvious & feeble attempt to divert attention away from the smoking gun proof?? That AEI Report? The only thing it looms over is a toilet seat in Goodell’s office, on a little round spinner designed to dispense butt wipes. Thats all that piece of trash is worth…

    Replace AEI with Wells, and Kraft with NFL, and you might be on to something, except for the “smoking gun proof” nonsense.

  169. It seems inconceivable to me that the league didn’t start bthe investigation by performing a simple controlled experiment first. They could have inflated 12 balls to 12.5 psi and 4 balls to 13.1. at room temp. Then they could put those balls into a controlled temp freezer replicating the game time temp. Leave the balls in the freezer simulating the time they were exposed to the outside temp. After the specified time expired they could then remove them, replicate their actions prior to testing, and then measure the balls exactly as they did during halftime using the same two gauges. If similar results were obtained (as science predicts) investigation over! Possibly this was done since supposedly there were brilliant minds involved with this investigation but since the data validated the game measurements that simple experiment was buried. If it wasn’t done then it shows the lack of the investigation team’s ability to perform a thorough investigation

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