League’s reaction to Tom Brady testimony not as glowing

AP

Those paid to exonerate Patriots quarterback Tom Brady were wowed by his performance at Tuesday’s appeal hearing, #asexpected. Those who suspended him in the first place weren’t. #Asexpected.

Per a league source, Brady simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement in or knowledge of whatever it was that John Jastremski and Jim McNally may have been doing with the team’s footballs. When pressed on certain facts relating to Brady’s potential knowledge or involvement, the answers were regarded by some in the room (i.e., some who aren’t paid to exonerate Brady) as not entirely credible.

Apparently, Brady’s case hinged heavily on attacking the science, under the broader umbrella of taking the position that: (1) he didn’t do anything wrong; and (2) Ted Wells can’t prove that Brady did. The question then becomes whether the NFL is willing to throw out the entire Wells report based on the flaws in the science (and the science is definitely flawed), or whether the NFL continues to be troubled by the Jastremski-McNally exchanges and Brady’s answers to questions about his interactions with either or both of them.

Most importantly, it’s unlikely that the Commissioner will fully exonerate Brady because the Commissioner nearly lost his job last year by not going far enough in disciplining a player. When the Commissioner goes too far, eventually having his decisions overturned by some independent party, he suffers little or no P.R. fallout.

That dynamic alone should tell us all which way the wind is howling on this one. And it provides further proof for the notion that last year’s Ray Rice debacle has left the Commissioner hopelessly conflicted in every single one of these cases.

With one path jeopardizing his job and the other path not triggering even a peep of substantial criticism, the smart play for Goodell will always be to uphold a suspension and let the player and his union fight for further reduction or outright elimination of it in court. And that’s the kind of inherent conflict that arguably makes Goodell unfit to be the final decision-maker in any of these cases.

347 responses to “League’s reaction to Tom Brady testimony not as glowing

  1. Are you REALLY trying to claim that Goodell has to bring the hammer down on Brady because he didn’t go far enough in the Ray Rice case to please Twitter/Tumblr/et al?

    Even if, there’s a vast gulf between “Guy caught on camera beating the hell out of his wife and the NFL stuck it’s fingers in it’s collective ears and went ‘lalalalala'” and “Guy implicated for deflating a football despite flaky science, an inept investigator, a botched investigation, and a punishment that vastly outweighs the precedent.”

  2. Why would Goodell ever want the truth to come out?

    Talk about tin plated dictator with delusions of godhood.

    One can only hope he continues to ignore science and the rule of law, so Brady’s legal team can make mincemeat out him and shame him in public.

  3. Of course it isn’t, the league spent 5 mill on a investigation, and if an appeal trumps all that the NFL would look stupid. Predetermined outcome.

  4. Game Of Leaks. Just another NFL leak to counter the late night leak that Brady was outstanding. Truth is somewhere in the middle. Science doesn’t have a favorite team and the science in this matter came out to reveal no evidence of improper deflation.

  5. its not surprising that a league this corrupt and incompetent wouldnt see the flaws in their own arguments. They couldnt possibly think they are right, if they do, that might be scarier to imagine than their perceived level of incompetence.

  6. We’re all sitting here acting like there’s a real debate going on. Goodell drafted this whole soap opera himself. If this was about the truth then the Wells Report (as reminded to us daily by Mr Florio) does not conclude that the Patriots cheated. If this was a fact based inquiry this would have been wrapped up months ago. We’re sitting here like idiots waiting for dungeon master Goodell to tell us what plot twist he has dreamed up for next.

  7. “Most importantly, it’s unlikely that the Commissioner will fully exonerate Brady because the Commissioner nearly lost his job last year by not going far enough in disciplining a player.”

    Florio, you realize that Ray Rice and Tom Brady were accused of two very different things, correct? Or are you saying that you, or Goodell, or both, believe that Ray Rice knocking a woman unconscious with his fist is equivalent to Tom Brady allegedly instructing someone to deflate footballs?

  8. From Madden to Aikmen, every former coach or player that has discussed this issue agrees that no one alters or even touches the footballs without the QB knowing. You’ve been lying this long so you might as well keep going, but everyone with any credibility on the matter knows the truth.

  9. Just man up and admit that you knew what they were doing/told them to do Brady. It’s that simple. It’s that easy. This could have been over with months ago.

  10. The man talks and says the word “integrity” like its the word “the”. If the Commissioner has any “integrity” he shouldn’t be worried about public perception or his own personal perception. He should be making a ruling based on the facts of the case in front of him. And at this point, nothing shows that Brady did anything.

    If the Commissioner wants to talk about integrity, he should also be reviewing the integrity of the Park Avenue offices and find out why this type of information is being leaked now and during this whole debacle. Still has yet to answer Chris Mortenson’s false reporting and why he didnt look into it.

  11. Goodell should be in jail. When did fraud become legal in this country?

  12. See everyone in court. Roger will uphold his original decision because he has to, or look like the boob he is, then when the courts side with Brady because there’s no proof of anything done by him, including that farce of a Wells report, Roger can say “blame the courts, I did what I thought was right,” and wash his hands of it. Either way, he still looks foolish.

  13. I’m tired of the sports media saying that Goodell needs to be tougher on Brady because of his poor reaction to the Ray Rice/Adrian Peterson incidents. Punching a woman in the face/beating a child and deflating some footballs are not at all comparable.

  14. I hate leaks.. The Commisioner is always talking about the integrity of the league.. where is the integrity when you suspend someone because of your own mistakes you did last year and and are concerned about your own PR.. that’s not a fair process. I don’t even like the Patriots but man this is beyond absurd.. Taking an oath and stuff like that. A judge will overturn this so fast that Goodell will look even worse.. There is a reason that other commisioner’s have law degree.. Gary Bettman (NHL), Adam Silver (NBA) Robert Manfred (MLB), Don Garber ( MLS) are all lawyers.. Roger Goodell… PR background.

  15. Not only should the suspension be upheld, it should doubled fro creating a process that had to cost millions to put on.

    Not to mention, the stain of having to hear incredulous fans, deny every detail of a pattern obvious nefarious dealings coming from this organization.

    Rehashing the same ole stuff doesn’t cut it. The opportunity of the appeal was for NEW evidence to exonerate Brady. If it ain’t new, the punishment stands or is increased.

  16. Goodell put your money where your mouth is, challenge Brady to a football throwing contest and show the importance of deflated footballs. That or be sued!!

    On a serious note, I dont know why people think Goodell is going to reverse this punishment. He wont, he only changed Vilma’s because he took him to court.

  17. Unfit? Goodell appears to be well suited for the money making part of the job but player discipline has become a train wreck at every turn. Why he insists on keeping a grip on that is beyond me because all its done is make him look like a clown…..

  18. Football player “attacking the science” == failure. Only in ‘merca do we feel compelled to place ourselves above science when we have no reason to do so.

  19. This is like a child saying that he didnt eat the cookies, based solely on the fact that you didnt catch him with his hand in the cookie jar.

    Meanwhile, the cookies are gone and you have chocolate all over your face. Just like at home, this is not a murder trial, the standard here is “more likely than not”

    – So you are GUILTY

  20. Truly shocking that the NFL offices who seem hell bent on going after Brady and the Patriots based on shaky at best evidence would stand by their expensive Wells report. The alternative is to admit first off they had an agenda and that they wasted over 5 million bucks. Of course they aren’t thrilled by the truth.

  21. Or he could have appointed a neutral party to hear the appeal and he wouldn’t now be about to get his butt handed to him in court on a silver platter.
    What a turd.

  22. I’m shocked that those in the office of the NY JETS, I mean the NFL office who set up the sting operation, leaked lie after lie, and hired a company law firm to fabricate a report, is not supportive of Brady and the Patriots–shocked. Who did this come from? Mr. “we weighed the balls and you are f..ked” Kensil?

  23. My gawd, this will go on forever and be debated for years. “Cheated.” ” No he didn’t cheat.” Cheated.” “GOAT” “No, Greatest Cheater of All Time !!” I thought Goodell wanted to see Tom’s cell phone?? Anyway, whatever…………

  24. Still waiting for some EVIDENCE that Brady cheated. Not former teammates defending Brady (Bruschi) Not reports later proven false. Not emotional reactions from former/present players (Bettis,Brunelle,Faulk) with an axe to grind. Not former GMs/Coaches who got their brakes beat off by the Pats (Polian/Dungy) on a regular basis. Not more probable than not. EVIDENCE. Because if THIS league had it, they would have already leaked it.

  25. Sooooo, its perfectly acceptable to OVER suspend a player to make up for last years debacle??? Outrageous justification. If its not 100% overturned, this goes to court and the entire thing gets 10000x more embarrassing for Goodell and his clowns… Have fun.

  26. Take it to court. If Brady has nothing to hide then this is great. Everything will be out in the open. If this goes to court and brady is found guilty then ill bite my tongue and admit he is innocent. I HOPE this goes to court, my gut feeling is that Brady wont allow that due to what they will find when they cant hide behind the CBA’s rules of not having to show his phone.

  27. So would this be considered a “leak”. WTF, what a monumental waste of time and money for Brady and the NFLPA yesterday was. The outcome of the investigation was predetermined and the results from yesterday were predetermined, just take it to court already. And again, why would Brady turn over his phone!!!

  28. Its shocking that the folks who are paid by Brady thought he was wonderful yesterday. Its also shocking that the folks who leaked false information to Mortenson about 11 of 12 being underinflated by 2psi would think he was disingenuous.

    And by shocking, I mean not at all.

  29. So in other words … the hearing was a sham, the process is a sham, and Goodell is more concerned about saving face than anything else. Sounds like good reasons to fire the guy.

  30. “Not entirely credible.” Surprise, surprise. Whether or not Brady did anything wrong, his demeanor has been not entirely credible throughout this process. Will the public ever be rid of nagging doubts about Brady’s behavior? To quote the man himself: “I don’t think so.”

  31. cheating cheaters who cheat otherwise known as the New England Patriots*

  32. Agreed, he should have in no way been even close to rendering a decision on this as it not only gives the air of impropriety, it is since he’d be basically disagreeing with one of his own employees and Goodell does not have the backbone to do that. So its been a sham hearing all along, but what else is new.

  33. Re: “Brady simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement in or knowledge of whatever it was that John Jastremski and Jim McNally may have been doing with the team’s footballs.”

    Simply stonewalled for 10 hours? I doubt that.

    Scientific tests suggest the balls were not actually deflated in the first place.

    And if the balls were not actually deflated, WHAT exactly does the NFL expect Brady to be confessing to?

  34. Brady & the Patriots are innocent or at least there is no conclusive proof to even say “more probably than not”.

    This entire thing now is all about politics and saving face.

  35. Forio, you seem to be suggesting that Goodell wants Brady to take the league to court. If the NFL loses in court yet again, then Goodell will look even worse. The last thing Goodell needs is a court telling him that Ted Wells report is junk. He might be better off working out a deal with Kessler.

  36. So the people who are paid to crucify Brady didn’t have the same positive response as the people who are paid to exonerate him? Nobody saw that coming.

  37. Does the League have any comment on the nepotism involved in Football Ops? Or how many current league employees are former Jet employees?

  38. For god’s sake, Brady, just sit out the four games and let it go. No matter what the ruling is, this is sticking to your legacy and you’ll never get rid of it. And if you get out of it, it will actually make you come off worse.

  39. This is really unbelievable… the NFL knows they screwed up and got caught, they are wrong and they know it. Everyone knows it. They are now trying to find a loophole in testimony to uphold a punishment for a crime that wasnt committed and they expect people are going to suddenly believe them. This is Americas sport.

  40. You mean the people with an interest in watching Brady burn dont believe him? Wow, shocking. Bring this clown case to court already.

  41. Also, what were we expecting? That Goodell would come around and finally do the right thing for once? I had hope, but never truly believed Goodell would do anything to change the suspension.

    What is he going to say?

    “You know what, Mr. Brady, I was totally wrong and completely out of line with this ruling and my $5 million dollar man Ted Wells is an incompetent liar. Here, take back your games, SUSPENSION LIFTED!”.

    “We’re sorry, and thanks for showing us the light”

    Not surprising

  42. You’re a hypocrite.
    “Define `hypocrite’.”

    Is there a relationship between you and Monica Lewinsky?
    “It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

    You had your guys deflate those footballs.
    “The science is flawed.”

    All the same – smugness vs. truth. Good luck with that, Brady.

  43. Brady cheated and then bald faced lied about cheating to America, all NFL fans including Patriot fans, his owner, his coach, the entire NFL including every player, and each and everyone of his teammates.

    Under oath and hooked up to a lie detector:
    Tom Brady, did you ever have any type of arrangement with Jim “The Deflator” McNally and/or John Jastremski to illegally deflate game footballs after they were inspected by the NFL referees?

  44. I can’t wait until this is all over with!! I can’t believe it has takin this long already and still isn’t concluded. Can the season start already!!!

  45. Please stop this deflategate nonsense.

    It doesn’t matter.

    It simply fills space.

  46. Patskrieg says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:08 PM

    What soap opera? This isnt a conspiracy against the Pats. The patriots are the team that Goodell has and will support at every possible chance. Kraft is Goodells biggest ally, why on earth would he be ‘out to get him’? You all complain about goodell, his decisions and his salary, yet Kraft has been the biggest supporter of him at every step of the way and is one of three owners who gave him the salary he has today. So to say Goodell is out to get the Patriots makes ZERO sense. In the media Kraft is referred to as “the assistant commissioner”. So stop with the tin foil conspiracy theories.

  47. Brady refused to cooperate with the process and let low level staffers take the fall. Not exactly a stand up guy. Notable that owner Robert Kraft isn’t appealing punishment handed out to the club. He knows the effed up and got caught.

  48. But Kessler said it was perfection! He said he heard angels singing in the background when Brady spoke!!!

  49. The very flawed Wells report proves nothing. We all know that by now.

    That does not mean Brady is innocent – just that you can’t “convict” him since there is no proof.

    However, there is STILL very much the matter of the obstruction in the investigation. The absurd claims that the “deflator” is merely a guy trying to lose weight. Etc etc.

    It seems likely that Goodell’s bosses (the owners) are simply sick of the Patriots trying game the system. Rather than go out an win without looking for loopholes in the rules.

    The Patriots are a flawed dynasty in many people’s opinion. All the thumbs down and immature fanboy proclamation that other are just jealous will not change that. (Really – do any of you saying “you’re just jealous” realize you sound 12 years old? I can truly only conclude that you are in fact 12 years old.)

    The real modern dynasty is the one in my screen name. No trying to skirt issues, no suspicion, lost draft picks, investigations, suspension etc. Just play winning hockey – beat quality teams without any doubt that it was earned. And in the end they have the respect of every other team and their fans. THAT’S a team to admire – not the Patriots.

  50. Let me see if I can follow the logic here:

    A commissioner who has failed in the past to adequately discipline violent criminals/wife beaters/child abusers and assorted other scum now believes he needs to bring the hammer down on alleged slight deflation of some footballs. Which happened in one of the most lopsided AFC Championship Games in history, and therefore had no impact on anything.

    Glad to see the commissioner and the League have their priorities straight.

  51. Wait, you’re saying Tommy’s denials of corrupt behavior in which he was caught red-handed are not “entirely credible”??! You don’t say!

    Throw the book at the cheater, Rog! The integrity of the game is at stake here. If someone can get a mere slap on the wrist for blatantly cheating in a playoff game (or surely many playoff games), we’ll only see more and more dishonest crap. This is your chance to put a stop to it. Don’t let the fact that it’s the golden boy on your buddy Kraft’s team influence your decision. Don’t reduce the penalty, increase it to a full year, which is what it should have been in the first place.

  52. I want lie detectors by Shady Brady and the equipment guys. If you’re all innocent then prove it.

    And anyone that thinks the NFL had an agenda against the Patriots is clearly delusional. The NFL didn’t want its star athlete and the last SB winner to be a cheater. The NFL while maybe clueless and arrogant and greedy at times, doesn’t have an agenda against the Patriots and their friend the owner Kraft.

  53. Lol at pats fans.

    Goodell is unwilling to recuse himself, because the text messages out there are damming, and they are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Moving this to the courts is good for Goodell, because it means subpoena power, and that means phone records. Brady. Kraft. Bellichick.

    If you think those phone records are helpful to the pats, you’re delusional.

    When Kraft laid down, that should tell you all you need to know

  54. This would not be a big deal if it were not proven fact the the patriots cheat every chance they get. They are guilty until proven innocent and then you better look at the proof, because it is probably wrong, They always cheat. ALL of their so called championships have an asterisk start with the BS tuck rule when brady fumbled, they got used to cheating then and never stopped.

  55. Cue the Haters referencing the one instance in which the “deflator” term referenced weight loss – ignoring the fact that the Patriots have no problem admitting that, like every team, the Patriots employ a “deflator” who prepares game balls as the Giants and other teams do as documented by the NY Times on 11/23/13

    I’m not sure why the Haters insist on showing their ignorance but it’s been addressed over and over

    » On the texts between the Patriots attendants: “Perhaps most revealing, then, is that not a single text states that: (i) Brady wanted footballs set below 12.5 psi; (ii) there was a plan to deflate footballs after the referee inspected them; or (iii) there was any actual such deflation. Nonetheless, the report assumes that every text reference to inflation or deflation of footballs suggests there was a plot to improperly deflate footballs after the referee’s inspection. In reality, there is simply no basis to assume that conclusion.”

    “First, the report ignores the information the investigators gathered that Mr. Jastremski’s duties in football preparation in fact routinely involve deflating every football at least twice. Every team in the League has developed a standard operating procedure for the preparation of new footballs for game play. The Patriots standard procedures are described in part on pgs. 37-40. Omitted from that description, but as Mr. Jastremski explained, is that the very first thing he routinely does when he opens a new box of Wilson footballs is to take a bit of air out of them. That makes them easier to prepare. The second time he takes air out of footballs is when he sets them for Mr. Brady’s pre-game review and selection

  56. Ok, that’s a good thing. It brings us that much closer to an appeal ruling ie if Brady seemed to have swayed some the NFL execs, it would delay Goodell’s verdict. This way. Goodell will rule quickly and without any changes. That in turn will allow for a quick superior court injunction and ultimately a Brady victory.
    That helps the Patriots cause it eliminates some of the unknowns in the beginning of the season. Brady is under center all season. Good boy Goodell. You are playing right into Kessler’s hands, just as he predicted you would. Now just stop the leaks and issue your sham appeal verdict already.

  57. “From Madden to Aikmen, every former coach or player that has discussed this issue agrees that no one alters or even touches the footballs without the QB knowing. You’ve been lying this long so you might as well keep going, but everyone with any credibility on the matter knows the truth.”
    ——————————————————-
    Yet, there is no proof anything happened? Balls lost same PSI as Colts…..hmm

    “Tom please admit you did something even though we don’t have anything proven something was done!!!”

    Based on what Colts balls showed, why hasn’t Andrew Luck been suspended?

  58. If he didnt produce the phone….then GUILTY. Four games upheld, and add another 12 games to the mix.
    Kick Bobby Kraft out of the league as well.

  59. I know we all criticize Goodell but he is in a lose lose spot. He hired an independent investigator who believe Brady is innocent. If he upholds that then every Pats fan cries their eyes out. If he dismisses it and lets brady off then were back at Spygate and the owner (kraft) who decides goodells salary and is great friends with him is let off the hook yet again and every other fan is mad. So I say uphold this, force tom to take this to court if he is innocent. That way Non pats fans can see whats on his phone and all the pats fans can have someone other than goodell say if he’s guilty or not. Seems fair. My guess is that no matter what Brady wont take this to court. If the ruling is upheld and brady doesnt go to court, then it shows his guilt.

  60. This is all irrelevant. Goodell isn’t really interested in finding the truth. His decision is going to be based on what’s best as a PR move for the NFL and himself with the fans and the owners. Brady is going to have to take this to court. He testified under oath yesterday, which opens him up to CRIMINAL charges. Does anyone with a brain seriously think he’d PERJURE HIMSELF over some air pressure? This isn’t Pacman Jones, this is Tom Brady, he doesn’t want legal trouble. This will be interesting to see how this all shakes out.

  61. Goodell will not vacate the penalties. This is headed for court. The first case will be on procedural issues, the NFL will lose, Brady’s suspension will be wiped out. The second case will be the defamation case against the league, Goodell, Wells, etc. In this lawsuit, the league will absolutely get destroyed, Brady will be exonerated and receive millions in damages.

  62. Goodell hears every appeal and nobody had a problem with it until the golden boy got caught cheating. Let’s increase it to 6 games just to be safe.

  63. And we’re supposed to believe ‘league sources’? These are the same a-holes who ‘leaked’ the balls were >2 psi under-inflated.

    Until we see the transcript, I wouldn’t believe any league source. They’ve proven they are liars — just trying to save their jobs.

  64. So he lawyers pat him on the back for being able to follow a rehearsed script and the NFL is unimpressed he is basically still not cooperating. Sounds about right for a lying cheater who thinks he is above the rules.

  65. It’s funny how Pats fans are screaming how innocent Brady is out of one side of their mouths, and also trying to downplay how big of an advantage having under inflated footballs is from the other side. The fact is, having under inflated footballs is a huge advantage, especially in cold weather. The ball is easier to grip. It’s that simple. Less fumbles will occur, and the fumble stats prove it. And it’s also funny how they are pretending like the AFC Championship game was the ONLY game that they are being accused of cheating. The Colts notified the league of this BECAUSE IT IS WELL KNOWN AROUND THE LEAGUE THAT THE PATS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS!! Not just one game… YEARS!! Ever since Brady petitioned the league to have teams provide their own footballs, the Pats fumble stats have been head and shoulders above the rest of the league, by far. It’s not even close.

    Doesn’t anybody wonder how a guy like LaGarrette Blount can come from a warm weather team like Tampa where he had fumblitis, and join a cold weather team like the Pats and all of a sudden he is fumble proof?

    Pats fans, this case may lack the scientific evidence, mainly because the NFL under Goodell can’t seem to do anything right. They screwed up the investigation, when in reality they really could have had a slam dunk case. However, it still doesn’t pass the sniff test or the common sense test. The Pats will never be exonerated because most fans like myself can see the guilt in Brady and Belichick faces. So cry and scream “haters” all you want, but the fact remains that you are defending a cheater.

  66. So what if the science isn’t 100%, there are texts between equipment managers about deflating the balls, and about Brady’s reaction when the balls were not deflated enough. Focusing on the science is a distraction tactic.

  67. There is one massive problem with this article talking about PR fallout if he overturns this. The NFLPA formally requested that Goodell recuse himself as the person to hear the appeal. He had his out right then and there. That is a standard request for a very obvious reason regarding conflict of interest. He could have walked away clean with that extremely logical reason being his wings to fly away on and he chose not to. This entire thing is an embarrassment and a sham and the moronic trolls on these articles preaching about how NE is the devil while in their minds 31 other teams are somehow above them is becoming insane. Your comments read like a script written for a soap opera. Grow up, get a life or both. Nothing is going to change the fact NE is an outstanding franchise with an owner that nearly single handedly saved football during the lock out. All this nonsense about Goodell being in his p oket. You people can’t have it both ways. Last I checked NE was handed historic punishments for two things that were both not only insanely overblown but in both cases they were far from the first team to do the things they were accused of. But because it was NE, it get blown up. Goodell is in his own pocket and all 32 owners make sure that po key stays cozy. Pull your head out of your butt and accept reality.

  68. Can someone explain to me why the text message from Brady demanding the footballs be legally inflated doesn’t count as a text message?

    Why does he need a second text message proving his innocense? What will that prove that the text Wells interrogated McNally about for 7 hours doesn’t?

  69. Burden of proof is a “preponderance of the evidence” not “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Hence Brady must be presumed guilty based on evidence presented, unless he can show contradicting evidence (eg: texts and emails) which he did not. Punishment defined, Case closed.

  70. commenter says:

    From Madden to Aikmen, every former coach or player that has discussed this issue agrees that no one alters or even touches the footballs without the QB knowing. You’ve been lying this long so you might as well keep going, but everyone with any credibility on the matter knows the truth.
    ___________________________

    This is absolutely true. If someone tampered with the footballs, Tom Brady would know it for sure. But as we all have learned courtesy of Science News, HeadSmart Labs, and The American Enterprise Institute (among others), no one tampered with the footballs. The psi readings of the Pats’ footballs were right where they should have been taking into consideration the weather conditions on the field.

    Bottom line … of course Brady didn’t know about the tampering because there was no tampering.

  71. Ah it took them long enough 🙂

    No matter what happens…Brady is gonna lay the smack down on these clowns in court. Time to knock these arrogant people down a few pegs.

    I can’t WAIT! 🙂

  72. its like when 3 kids get in busted for doing something wrong and 1 hides while the other 2 get caught red handed, then claims he had nothing to do with it.

    The most important player on the field who handles the ball 100% of the time had no idea that the ball was being altered in any way?

    sure bud we all believe you….

  73. flash1287 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:21 PM

    This is probably not true but it will make the CRYBABIES happy?

    Are you talking about the boston excuse makers? No one is crying harder than them/you.

    #realitywillsetyoufree

  74. So we’re not even pretending anymore that anonymous sources should be the exception not the rule? This league source that wants to refute commentary made by another source about a transcript that will never be released has a name and it needs to be used.

  75. rascalmanny says:

    Jun 24, 2015 1:14 PM

    I want sworn testimony from the equipment guys.
    ———————–

    Why?

    It has now been proven by legitimate science that DEFLATION NEVER OCCURRED!!!

    The fact that were even still talking about this is a joke.

    NOTHING HAPPENED! If there is no crime, the texts, calls or anything else for the matter mean nothing.

    You cannot argue with the science, which 100% proves with real, tangible facts that nothing happened at all.

    Yet the league is still trying to stand by the $5 million sinking ship that is the Wells Report.

    Yes, it’s embarrassing that Goodell paid $5 million for a report that basically turned up some goofy text messages from MAY 2014.

    Well he should just eat some crow now and rescind the penalties before he gets further embarrassed in a real court where things like facts, logic and reason actually count.

  76. The truth never seems credible to people who are fully committed to upholding a lie.

  77. Isn’t this a violation of the confidentiality agreement between the two sides? Brady’s people say he did a good job, and Goodell’s people come out and tell everyone what Brady said.

    How do they let these people run the NFL?

    You haters really shouldn’t be that happy about all this because the biggest takeaway for me has been that the NFL Front Office literally does whatever it wants, whenever it wants to…

  78. Schefter was just on DC radio crowing about what a genuine and good guy Brady is. How Brady has said he will sue in Massachusetts court to get an injunction for any discipline. I don’t care about any science, that got the issue in the light the text messages are the smoking gun.

  79. generallyaware says:

    Goodell to Brady: So what if those guys didn’t deflate any balls. Explain for us the meaning of text messages they sent to each other!

    ————-

    Brady replies: I have always requested that the balls be at the legal minimum. That is how I like it at 12.5 psi–there was no tampering after the inspection as science clearly explains.

    The timing of those texts likely relates back to the Jets game where the balls were over-inflated to 16 psi which is above the NFL’s limit.

  80. A quick page search showed the word “leak” used by 9 different posters. So yeah, parts of Brady’s hearing was leaked.

    Knowing this, does anybody think his personal text messages, pictures, business dealing, etc., on his personal cell phone WOULD NOT be leaked? I hope this clears everything up as to why he refused to hand to hand it over.

  81. ” And that’s the kind of inherent conflict that arguably makes Goodell unfit to be the final decision-maker in any of these cases.”

    This is why Goodell needs to go.

  82. It’s hilarious to read the patriot fans asking for the “proof”.

    If Brady were innocent, he could have handed him his phone with the damning texts.

    Talk all about the science you want, but Brady no doubt wreaks of someone hiding the truth.

  83. generallyaware says:

    Jun 24, 2015 1:23 PM

    Goodell to Brady: So what if those guys didn’t deflate any balls. Explain for us the meaning of text messages they sent to each other!
    ——————————-
    Again one more time for those of you who have learning disabilities: The texts don’t need to be explained at all because it’s already been proven that deflation did not occur.

    YOU CAN’T IGNORE THE SCIENCE

  84. That picture of Tom is great. Hes either crying that his manhood is “This small” or he is crying because they were “That close” to getting away with cheating. Im sure I will receive plenty of thumbs down from the Tom Brady jock riders.

  85. I am not a Patriot fan or apologist.

    With that said and judging by the up and down voting, it is amazing to me how many people here just want to punish Brady without looking at the corrupt nature of Goodell, his office and the his track record. This is a kangaroo court and everyone knows it.

  86. All that matter’s in this whole blown out smoke-screen is that you forgot about the cheating referees (and the guy on the bus with Jerry Jones) who gave Dallas a win over Detroit. See if we get a blown out investigation that might indicate a PLAYER was cheating, then you forget about the REFEREES who were cheating.

  87. Just serve your four games and get on to your next attempt at cheating. I can’t wait to see what they get caught trying to do to save their “legacy” next. The way that team operates the NFL should test the entire roster for PEDs. Weekly.

  88. Hmmm. A good chunk of the day was Brady’s testimony and all he did was “simply reiterate his denial”?

    NOPE. Not buying it. Whoever this source was is full of it.

  89. The league still can’t control their leaks. I’m no NE fan, but I would hate to see Goodell come out on top in this one. You can’t trust or believe anything they say; they stepped in this one early and everything since is about Goodell saving face.

    Unfortunately, the brainless (and apparently jealous) sheep are urging him to drop the hammer because they hate NE/Brady.

    Just wait until it is your team.

  90. “the smart play for Goodell will always be to uphold a suspension and let the player and his union fight for further reduction or outright elimination of it in court. And that’s the kind of inherent conflict that arguably makes Goodell unfit to be the final decision-maker in any of these cases.”

    Yes that is totally a fair and just system…in Soviet Russia.

  91. Great, then it shouldn’t take long to uphold the suspension so this can move to federal court. Then this whole sad affair can come to a conclusion.

  92. It isn’t about one game and/or the science involved. It’s about a pattern of doctoring the balls that was revealed in the texts and everyone knows that NOBODY does ANYTHING to the balls without the QB’s awareness/approval/demands. All this other crap is just a diversion to try to obfuscate the truth by Brady, his lawyers, and lame homer Pats fans.

    1. Brady cheated.
    2. Brady lied.
    3. Brady is still lying.

    The league has a responsibility to call him out for it and punish him for it.

  93. I hope all those people who think Brady did nothing wrong get to see this thing go to actual court where Brady will have to turn over things he won’t currently, ie: his phone data.

    If the suspension doesn’t change, Brady will take his medicine because he has to…unless he wants us all to see he’s a bold faced liar, and not just a liar. This will never make it to actual court under any circumstance.

    There is so much in that report that makes it obvious Brady cheated, but he wants to play the “smoking gun” card, as if there is no damning evidence there. Brady has made this situation far worse than it ever would have been. At the same time, it’s not hard to see the NFL is more or less winging it with disciplinary action since the Ray Rice incident.

  94. mikermiker says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:29 PM
    What a terrible stained disgusting tainted franchise and legacy.


    But better than the team you root for.

  95. So Brady showed up to the hearing, said the same stuff as before and didn’t offer any new evidence that he did nothing wrong? I think they should increase his suspension from 4-6 games for wasting everybody’s time.

    @hawks52 one super bowl win does not a dynasty make.

  96. To all those saying, “predetermined outcome” – I ask, why would the league want to bring the hammer down on its biggest star? And right after he won the SB? That makes no sense at all.

    If I am Roger Goodell, I want to exonerate my star QB, not make it seem like the league’s biggest star cheats to win. The latter looks bad on everyone, not just Brady.

    But that is just me….

  97. To all the folks out there crying that what Brady and Rice did are two totally different things, you’re absolutely right. One has absolutely nothing to do with the game football (not that what he did wasn’t atrocious), while the other could very easily alter the outcome of a game (probably not so much the AFCGC since the Colts are garbage).

    Regardless how big or small of a deal anyone thinks this is, he’s lucky to have gotten off with just four (4) games for now. Saints fans out there know what I’m talking about right?

  98. This story is centered on the person doing the leaking, i.e. whether or not he has an axe to grind with the Pats or is a neutral in this debacle. If he has an axe then he will say not credible and if he is neutral then he did ok. And for you *************** people, the only ********s are in your feeble minds. Tell me where in the official record book that these ********** are located and I will apologize to you feeble minded individuals.

  99. At day’s end this is still a simple case of a player not cooperating with an investigation and then getting suspended for it. Nothing has changed. Brady is suspended and Goodell is still in charge…as it should be! No reason whatsoever for a court to overturn that.

  100. RegisHawk says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:29 PM
    But Kessler said it was perfection! He said he heard angels singing in the background when Brady spoke!!!

    —-
    So it’s surprising to you that his attorney says he did a good job (even though that’s not what he said)

    But you are not surprised (if true) that someone from the other side said the opposite?

  101. “Per a league source, Brady simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement…”

    This shows that the NFL made up their mind a long time ago and has no interest in finding the truth unless it is the truth that THEY want (i.e. if Brady does not admit guilt, then he is not credible….even if he is innocent).

    Hopefully Goodell keeps his word that he is open to new information to “get this right” but that would assume he is more interested in “integrity” vs. making himself look good (I am guessing the latter is his priority).

    For once, I’d like to see Goodell do the “right” thing even if it is not the popular choice – that is how a real leader acts, so not holding my breath.

  102. Tom Brady will go down with the greatest of all time — Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, and Alex Rodriguez. Actually, scratch that — at least Rodriguez and Armstrong admitted that they were cheaters after their first 1,000 denials, so I will move them out of the conversation. They should be Brady’s role models at this point.

  103. wryly1 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:29 PM

    Brady refused to cooperate with the process and let low level staffers take the fall. Not exactly a stand up guy. Notable that owner Robert Kraft isn’t appealing punishment handed out to the club. He knows the effed up and got caught.

    ———————————————————-

    Not surprised but absolutely wrong on your part.

    If Kraft takes the league to court he is taking his own teammates to court. He is suing himself even. The owners told him to just shut up and take the punishment. The Saints had to.

  104. Now with zero facts to back up his penalty, Goodell reverts to his earlier career as a slimey PR ferret.

  105. This should have been handled with a statement along the lines of:

    The investigation clearly did not find conclusive evidence that the balls were actually under-inflated, and did not find proof of intent to under-inflate the balls. It did find a lack of control over the inflation-verification process, and to rectify that we have put the following steps in place …

  106. So you’re saying the same people who likely fed erroneous psi levels to the media in the days following the AFCCG are finding Brady’s testimony less than credible?

    As the saying goes, consider the source.

    Get ready for court.

  107. The statement in the article that the science is definitely flawed is not true. Different scientists came to different conclusions Happens all the time in science but it doesn’t make it flawed.

  108. I think the media understands now that bad P.R. just isn’t working. In fact, it’s exactly what the owners pay Goodell for – to deflect attention away from them. It couldn’t be more evident than when they told Kraft to shut up and sit down.

  109. I call BS on the NFL. If it is true that Brady “simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement in or knowledge of whatever it was that John Jastremski and Jim McNally may have been doing with the team’s football”, why did it take 10 hours? Keep in mind, Brady was only supposed to get 4 hours, plus an additional 5th hour at the NFL’s discretion. Yet, he got 10 full hours to present his case?

    I am not a Patriots fan, but the fact that this took 10 hours means that there was a LOT more going on than what the NFL claims.

  110. This hearing was always going to be just the first step. Brady could not go to court without having done this first. Now he move on to the second step of his plan.

  111. The entire controversy is stemming from an ESPN report that in no way can be corroborated that 11 of 12 footballs were under-inflated. The Wells report states measurements were taken and never written down. Now somehow ESPN has knowledge of these readings without them ever being written down. How about an investigation of that!!! Who leaded that info? Why are the Patriots being portrayed as a team that skirts rules? There is videotape of teams actually using a heater on a sideline and the coverage of that was not 1% of this. Goodell and his minions obviously have an agenda here yet no one wants to explain it to the fans. Where is the integrity of the shield now Roger??

  112. I think “more probably than not” the NFL front office never realized they were being so nonchalant with the footballs since the conception of the sport to the point they didn’t realize the simple science between temperature and air pressure, and that ultimately led them to releasing inaccurate details to the press to trap someone in a fictional scenario.

    The integrity of the shield has been annihilated by their lack of focus on the small details required to standardize the sport they are paid to steward.

    Every day the owners leave this “office of clowns” in charge proves they are too far removed from the fan base and probably need to come down from the clouds to get a real life perspective of how senseless this has all become because the people in charge are not aware of simple technical details that are apparently very important to the integrity of the game.

    In what other corporation would these people (so called executives) still be employed?

  113. At what point do the owners of the league sit back and asses how much they are contributing towards legal fees to defend the decision made by a commissioner that end up getting over turned?

    When do the owners walk away from Goodell?

    I don’t know how this will turn out but how many times can you mess up at your job before you are fired? Only if you are the company owners son or the commissioner of professional football can you perform so poorly and still sit back and watch the pay cheques roll on in.

  114. I can’t buy the Ray Rice analogy in this scenario. What’s worse? Punching out your fiancé or letting some air out of a football. Give me a break. That’s comparing a beach ball to a golf ball.

    I for one think Brady is guilty and until he relinquishes his cell phone that will not change. However, Ray Rice was only suspended 2 games. Although that didn’t affect the integrity of any given game, it still deserved a much harsher punishment. As for Brady, in this case he needs to prove his own innocence. If he’s not guilty he can do so by “freeing” his cell phone. Unless he does that all you can do is go by the true evidence as circumstantial as it is and make a determination. The text messages by McNally and Jastremski as well as the difference in psi from the Patriot and Colt footballs are pretty damaging.

  115. Take it to court. If Brady has nothing to hide then this is great. Everything will be out in the open. If this goes to court and brady is found guilty then ill bite my tongue and admit he is innocent. I HOPE this goes to court, my gut feeling is that Brady wont allow that due to what they will find when they cant hide behind the CBA’s rules of not having to show his phone.
    ===
    Again: Brady wouldn’t have to show his phone in court unless HIS claims required it. The NFL doesn’t get to introduce new evidence. The CBA doesn’t allow for suspensions for not turning over player records and ANY suspension for that cause is therefore a violation of the CBA and out of line with previous precedents (Farve, Gostowski).

  116. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:43 PM

    Ah it took them long enough 🙂

    No matter what happens…Brady is gonna lay the smack down on these clowns in court. Time to knock these arrogant people down a few pegs.

    I can’t WAIT! 🙂
    —————————————-
    Even though I believe Brady had something to do with this I would love to see Goodell get his head handed to him. Tired of his antics. He’s a poor excuse of a Commissioner. To me, whether Brady is guilty or not, Goodell getting exposed for the @$$ he is would be better for the big picture.

  117. love the pats brats still arguing with the vocabulary of a criminal case. “Conviction” and “can’t prove he did it” are meaningless.

    Arguing the “flawed science” of the Wells report is hilarious and if that’s the best Brady and Co could come up with THAT is even more hilarious.

    The Pats are so worried they couldn’t depend on Jimmy Gameday so they brought in the guy who was a practice camp reject for the Buffalo Bills, Matt Flynn.

    Pats start 0-4 and finish 8-8. #Tainted

  118. saintsfan26 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:38 PM
    It’s funny how Pats fans are screaming how innocent Brady is out of one side of their mouths, and also trying to downplay how big of an advantage having under inflated footballs is from the other side. The fact is, having under inflated footballs is a huge advantage, especially in cold weather. The ball is easier to grip. It’s that simple. Less fumbles will occur, and the fumble stats prove it. And it’s also funny how they are pretending like the AFC Championship game was the ONLY game that they are being accused of cheating. The Colts notified the league of this BECAUSE IT IS WELL KNOWN AROUND THE LEAGUE THAT THE PATS HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS!! Not just one game… YEARS!! Ever since Brady petitioned the league to have teams provide their own footballs, the Pats fumble stats have been head and shoulders above the rest of the league, by far. It’s not even close.

    Doesn’t anybody wonder how a guy like LaGarrette Blount can come from a warm weather team like Tampa where he had fumblitis, and join a cold weather team like the Pats and all of a sudden he is fumble proof?

    Pats fans, this case may lack the scientific evidence, mainly because the NFL under Goodell can’t seem to do anything right. They screwed up the investigation, when in reality they really could have had a slam dunk case. However, it still doesn’t pass the sniff test or the common sense test. The Pats will never be exonerated because most fans like myself can see the guilt in Brady and Belichick faces. So cry and scream “haters” all you want, but the fact remains that you are defending a cheater.

    ____

    STOP with the it’s a “HUGE ADVANTAGE!!!!!”

    IF it’s such a HUGE ADVANTAGE to have under inflated balls then WHY does Aron Rogers and other QBS like the ball at the high end or even OVER INFLATED???????

    Is he just stupid? Has no one let him in on the big secret yet?????

  119. Brady has forgotten the old adage that it is the lie that oftentimes makes the situation worse than it could/should have been. Brady is not only a cheater and a liar but now we know he is a fool.

  120. The “Free Brady” crowd has been fortunate to add a large bunch to their bandwagon with the anti-Goodell group voicing their support. In the end, no objective mind believes the balls were altered without Brady’s knowledge. Not a single former coach or player that understands anything of what goes on with football preparation thinks the starting QB of any team, let alone the most meticulous QB in the game, wouldn’t know about it.

    Brady was lying through his teeth in that presser in February and everyone could see that. He refused to hand over his text messages. That’s not a privacy issue either because Goodell merely asked for the conversations with Mr. Deflator. Also, Deflator because he was fat? Know that is just insulting to everyone’s intelligence.

  121. People realize if this goes to court he doesn’t have to turn over his phone right?

    The NFL could be sued on the fact that they punished a player with no proof of wrong doing based on their investigation. The only evidence that would be brought into the court room is the Wells report. They do not need to go out and prove Brady innocent, they just need to prove that the league had no justification for this punishment.

    It is that cut and dry. Besides everyone who keeps saying the phone will nail Brady down when it goes to court, don’t you think his all-star attorney group knows exactly what is on his phone already and know how far to push this? You act as if they are as legal savvy as Goodell. There is a reason Kesler owns the NFL.

  122. Ray Rice was honest about his terrible act. He’s making retribution and doing all the right things to clean up his mistakes. He’s made a scapegoat by godell for his incompetence AFTER the video of what rice already told them came out.

    Brady’s crime goes directly to the integrity of the game and he lied. Yes he’s very different from Ray Rice and needs to be punished appropriately because HE”S STILL LYING and hiding behind lawyers to keep the lie going!

  123. Burden of proof is a “preponderance of the evidence” not “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Hence Brady must be presumed guilty based on evidence presented, unless he can show contradicting evidence (eg: texts and emails) which he did not. Punishment defined, Case closed.
    ===
    No…. Even in preponderance of evidence cases, he who brings the charges has to prove that that preponderance of evidence exists. It’s just a lower standard that beyond a reasonable doubt.

  124. Without the science – which has been thoroughly debunked both independently and now by Brady’s legal team and the NFLPA – all the league has are a couple ambiguous texts between “The Deflator” and “Dorito Dink” and video of the latter taking the balls to the bathroom.

    So according to this source, “some in the room” thought Brady just reiterated what he said before and didn’t find his answers convincing, never mind that Brady was under oath. Aaron Rodgers admitted on a national broadcast about liking his footballs overinflated and BRAGGED about coercing league officials to assist him. This concrete, UNambiguous evidence of tampering has yet to be investigated, let alone punished, yet Brady is suspended 4 games and the Pats are out a 1st/4th rounder and $1,000,000.

    What’s wrong with this picture?

  125. Thanks for all the thumbs down proving my point.

    Hockey may be a “minor” sport to most, but I’ve learned there is integrity in that sport that football cannot match. That’s an anti-NFL statement, not anti-Patriots per se.

    The Patriots just happen to be the poster child for the issues.

    Think about it – innocent or not – WHY is this happening? Why so many articles and strong opinions and insults directed to people of opposing viewpoints.

    Why are there opposing viewpoints? Why can’t teams simply play the game like is done in hockey? Why all these sideshows?

    I would never want a team I follow to be involved in cr@p like this.

  126. “When pressed on certain facts relating to Brady’s potential knowledge or involvement, the answers were regarded by some in the room (i.e., some who aren’t paid to exonerate Brady) as not entirely credible.”

    Are you really a lawyer?

    What does that mean paragraph mean?

    Did anyone provide factual evidence disputing what Brady said? If not, his testimony stands as an undisputed fact in evidence. Just because some clown that has it in for him doesn’t think it is credible means nothing legally.

  127. This was under oath correct? So if he just said what he has been saying he is lying based on the Text Message proof. When you lie under oath that would be perjury. He should now go to jail.

  128. I hate when people say “why would the NFL go after Brady if he wasn’t guilty?” Ted Wells even trotted out that lame excuse.

    It’s the same thing people said in Bountygate — “why would the NFL go after the Saints?”

    THAT IS NOT EVIDENCE. Suppose you are an upstanding member of your community and you are charged with a murder you didn’t commit — would you want to be convicted because “why would the DA go after such a good guy if he wasn’t guilty?” OR do you want there to be, you know, ACTUAL EVIDENCE?

    The NFL does this because it is an incompetent, lying, narcissistic, PR-driven, thoroughly corrupt organization led by an egomaniac — THAT’S WHY.

  129. You Pats sheep are delusional. You think Goodell wants to punish his buddy Kraft and the Pats? This deflategate is not good for the league and its $$$.

    But it is so obvious they have much more than they are letting on. Kraft knows it and he folded. No one in the Pats organization has backed Brady including Bill B

    Brady is the denial king and liar. He know that admitting anything will tarnish him. Denying everything means he’ll
    appeal to his followers….

  130. Not a Patriot or Brady fan but this entire thing is ridiculous. At most he should be suspended for 1 game and move on. The team already was wacked with a fine and draft picks.

  131. Why is Goodell the bad guy here? Did he deflate balls? Did he spy on other teams? Did he cheat his way to six Superbowls? If Brady coulda proved his innocence, he woulda. And no gasbag attorney spouting junk science is going to change that.

  132. “With one path jeopardizing his job and the other path not triggering even a peep of substantial criticism, the smart play for Goodell will always be to uphold a suspension and let the player and his union fight for further reduction or outright elimination of it in court.”

    You are comparing apples to oranges.

    There was a video evidencing Ray Rice clocking his fiance and dragging her out of an elevator.

    The evidence in deflategate is that Brady was the victim of over zealous prosecutors in the NFL that misread the initial evidence, prejudged him, leaked to the media to damage him, and then cooked the evidence in the wells report to railroad him.

    Goodell will go down in history as a tool if he doesn’t exonerate Brady. He’s not Putin. He’s suppose to be a fair arbiter.

  133. This entire circus could have been avoided if a real man was in charge of the league. Goodell is a product of power and wealth who was placed in a position of power by others. He has lost control of numerous situation that the league has faced. The players settled with the league only after Bob Kraft intervened to save the season. Business managment require a great deal of damage control, not controversy generated by unqualified underlings. The attemps to justify the Wells report fail in every regard when challenged by reason or science as well as evidence.

  134. It isn’t about one game and/or the science involved. It’s about a pattern of doctoring the balls that was revealed in the texts and everyone knows that NOBODY does ANYTHING to the balls without the QB’s awareness/approval/demands. All this other crap is just a diversion to try to obfuscate the truth by Brady, his lawyers, and lame homer Pats fans.
    ===
    Where is the evidence of this pattern? You have none. Wells has none. the NFL has none. You don’t have a single incidence of deflation. This pattern of exists only in your mind, because it certainly didn’t exist on the field.

  135. sbaltimore says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:57 PM

    It isn’t about one game and/or the science involved. It’s about a pattern of doctoring the balls that was revealed in the texts and everyone knows that NOBODY does ANYTHING to the balls without the QB’s awareness/approval/demands. All this other crap is just a diversion to try to obfuscate the truth by Brady, his lawyers, and lame homer Pats fans.

    1. Brady cheated.
    2. Brady lied.
    3. Brady is still lying.

    The league has a responsibility to call him out for it and punish him for it.
    ————————
    Granting all you said is true then would you agree that Aaron Rogers, who publicly admitted using overinflated balls to his preference should be held just as accountable? Imagine the league suspending the league MVP and the SB MVP in the same year for the same offense? One had to be made the sacrificial lamb and the NFL office knew the public would roar for justice against the “cheatin Patriots” and even stacked the deck by leaking blatantly false information and never, ever correcting it………ever! If Brady is found to have done what he has been charged with so be it. But as a Pats fan I want equal justice for all players and teams in the league.

  136. Sounds like Brady did a replay of his Bob Costas interview … struggling mightily to stay on the right side of the:

    “Didn’t say it didn’t happen, said there is no proof that it happened”

    rhetorical line.

    He may make a good Republican Congressman yet (even though he has turned to his union rep to get him out’ve this mess … but then Massachusetts is not a “right to work” state. Lucky for Tom.

  137. I believe the court case will revolve around the punishment and the CBA not the evidence . The courts usually will not get involved of company union innocent / guilt they will determine if the commissioner acted correctly did the punishment fit the crime did it follow similar punishments for similar violations handed out in the past.

  138. Politics and saving face,NO it is about the truth and since there is no indication Brady showed his texts it looks like he is willing to be suspended to hide the truth.

  139. bworacle says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:04 PM

    The statement in the article that the science is definitely flawed is not true. Different scientists came to different conclusions Happens all the time in science but it doesn’t make it flawed.
    —————–
    One vs one okay. But when one is the only one vs several others then that changes everything.

  140. ennerut2000 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:03 PM

    And now your excuse for firing two guys who did “nothing wrong at all”? Seems convenient that they are innocent, but were fired and now the league has no recourse to contact them and get info, even though the patriots already told the league no to a second interview. I hope this goes to court, then patriots can hide the ball boys by firing them and Tom cant hide his phone behind the CBA. The ball boys could easily make a truck load of money by telling their side to TMZ, but my guess is that the Patriots already made them sign something saying they wouldnt speak- which is odd for a team that has done nothing wrong. But again, in Patriots logic, the ball boys just dont want all that money they could be making and just choose to not tell their side.

  141. I refuse to believe that some of these pats hating trolls are actual people I may encounter in real life. That’s a terrifying thought.

    Biggest takeaway from this whole thing is how incredibly sad and pathetic the American masses have become. Soft, feeble-minded sheep who care nothing about due process or facts but rather let the fact they don’t like someone cloud their judgement to the point they no longer see what is staring them in the face.

    I pray for us all

  142. Perhaps taking the entire process from the NFL and putting it to the hands of law enforcement.
    Players get caught cheating, drugs, homicide, etc.
    They can be suspended without pay until those matters are settled by the law.

  143. wryly1 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:29 PM

    Brady refused to cooperate with the process and let low level staffers take the fall. Not exactly a stand up guy. Notable that owner Robert Kraft isn’t appealing punishment handed out to the club. He knows the effed up and got caught.

    ———-

    And bailed on his QB by leaving the country.
    Tammy has no supporters except for the brainwashed Patsie* fans.

  144. Another example of how fast the NFL can refute a report if they want to. If they just corrected the erroneous 11 out of 12 balls report we wouldn’t be here..

  145. I can’t recall ever being this furious at the people who run a sports league. While Goodell may have had the legal right to sit as judge on Brady’s appeal, there is no reasonable argument to be made that he is unbiased. He is, perhaps even more than Tom Brady, completely wedded to this fiasco, and has as much or more to lose or gain by its outcome. Yesterday was nothing more than kabuki theater, with Goodell pretending to fully weigh Brady’s argument before he hands down a predetermined outcome at the most propitious date according to public relations. He will then act as though the topic has been fully covered and discussed. I hope Brady takes this the absolute distance and reveals Goodell as the shoddy shyster he is.

  146. Tom Brady will go down with the greatest of all time — Barry Bonds, Lance Armstrong, and Alex Rodriguez. Actually, scratch that — at least Rodriguez and Armstrong admitted that they were cheaters after their first 1,000 denials, so I will move them out of the conversation. They should be Brady’s role models at this point.

    _____

    Huh, all along all I’ve heard is that Brady should be talking and “why is he silent?”. But now, you are saying he has denied it 1000 times? Wow, how did you get such information??

  147. footballfan says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:17 PM
    The “Free Brady” crowd has been fortunate to add a large bunch to their bandwagon with the anti-Goodell group voicing their support. In the end, no objective mind believes the balls were altered without Brady’s knowledge. Not a single former coach or player that understands anything of what goes on with football preparation thinks the starting QB of any team, let alone the most meticulous QB in the game, wouldn’t know about it.

    Brady was lying through his teeth in that presser in February and everyone could see that. He refused to hand over his text messages. That’s not a privacy issue either because Goodell merely asked for the conversations with Mr. Deflator. Also, Deflator because he was fat? Know that is just insulting to everyone’s intelligence.

    No but those people like you deny or ignore the scientific proof that shows they weren’t tampered with at all.

    Or why Well chose to believe EVERYTHING Anderson said except which gauge he used.

  148. flaccotoboldin says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:32 PM

    Lol at pats fans.

    Goodell is unwilling to recuse himself, because the text messages out there are damming, and they are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Moving this to the courts is good for Goodell, because it means subpoena power, and that means phone records. Brady. Kraft. Bellichick.

    If you think those phone records are helpful to the pats, you’re delusional.

    When Kraft laid down, that should tell you all you need to know
    ________________________________

    What you say would only apply if Brady files a defamation suit. If Brady challenges the commissioners ruling under the CBA in court subpoena power does not apply to Brady’s phone or information the NFL did not have when making their decision. The league does not get to use the case as a reason to fish for new evidence. The commissioner will be required to defend his actions based on the information used to make the decision and the standard of discipline for similar transgressions. It is not an investigation into deflategate, it is a court proceeding to determine the legality of the league’s actions. And while the CBA gives the commissioner wide discretion his decisions are still subject to Federal labor law.

    Neither of these things bode well for the league as a report built on flawed evidence even states that it cannot even conclude whether or not tampering occurred. That leaves the punishment for being uncooperative. Well the last two penalties for not cooperating in an NFL investigation were $50k to Brett Favre and $20k to the Chargers. In other words Brady’s punishment is seriously disproportionate for similar offenses.

  149. Suspend him a couple extra games for wasting everyone’s time, and continuing to lie.

    No way in hell did Brady not order the ball to be deflated.

  150. if they reduce their suspension then I’m done with the NFL.
    NFL and NBA will be the same. A rigged pro sport like WWF.

  151. To all those saying, “predetermined outcome” – I ask, why would the league want to bring the hammer down on its biggest star? And right after he won the SB? That makes no sense at all.
    ______

    I know it doesn’t. So, why didnt they just tell the Patriots about the issue before the game?

    The league HAD to know this would cause a giant issue if made public, unless of course they are completely inept……or someone didn’t care about the fallout as long as it made Brady look bad.

    So, you tell me….inept? Or corrupt?

  152. It seems to me that everyone is wasting a lot of time and money on this. Goodell simply could have suspended Brady under the pretext of lying during the investigation and giving the NFL a black eye (ie player conduct policy). That’s what he did with Roethlisberger and it stuck without all of this fanfare.

  153. So let’s see… The only ones who know for sure are the equipment dudes and TB. If Goodell reduces the 4 games and one if equipment dudes blabs, it’ll be like the 2nd Ray Rice video and the media will crucify Goodell. If if he leaves it as is, let TB take it to court where the equipment dudes will be forced to testify and we’ll see what happens then.

  154. davevandebunte says: Jun 24, 2015 2:06 PM

    I call BS on the NFL. If it is true that Brady “simply reiterated his denial regarding any involvement in or knowledge of whatever it was that John Jastremski and Jim McNally may have been doing with the team’s football”, why did it take 10 hours? Keep in mind, Brady was only supposed to get 4 hours, plus an additional 5th hour at the NFL’s discretion. Yet, he got 10 full hours to present his case?


    Exactly.

    These NFL sources have lied and lied and then lied some more over the years. They lied about Rice, they lied about 11 of 12 being deflated under 2 PSI and many other things. And like yesterday when they are caught lying they have the audacity to turn around and lie and deny it. So it really isn’t a big deal to them to lie again in this “report”. Is it?

    Apparently these people think we the NFL fans are idiots. 🙁

    Brady, McNally or whoever wants to do it- speaking as an NFL fan and not just the Pats – PLEASE take this case to court. These guys desperately need a big heaping pile of humble pie shoved down their throats. They need a big fat boot out of their ivory tower and into reality.

    Do it.

  155. Brady’s crime goes directly to the integrity of the game and he lied.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Your statement is in error. Here, let me fix it.

    Goodell’s crime goes directly against the integrity of the NFL, the game and on top of that – he has been lying from the beginning and still is lying.

    OK – Fixed

  156. Would any of these sources happen to be the same people that handed Bob Kravitz the story or gave Mortenson the info that all the balls were 2 psi under?

    You have to question the source about Brady’s A+ performance as it likely came from someone in his camp…but likewise you have to question any source from the NFL on this given all the bad info from “sources” surrounding this.

  157. So once again we have an unnamed league source putting out information detrimental to the Patriots….so much for a confidentiality agreement. This is deja vu all over again!

  158. The ball boys….my guess is that the Patriots already made them sign something saying they wouldnt speak- which is odd for a team that has done nothing wrong
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    One thing we no 100% for sure – the NFL made Kraft sign a NDA ( No Disclosure Act ).

    which is not odd – just criminal, when Goodell says he is about integrity – LMAO.

  159. Was it John Jastremski or Jim McNally that was trying to lose weight and thus ending up with the nickname, Deflator?

    I still can’t get over that whopper that the Patriots are trying to sell us. I don’t know if they were trying to throw stuff against the wall to see what would stick but every single Patriot’s fan bought that one hook, line and sinker.

  160. I saw a great Top Ten show on NFL Network about trick plays. David Copperfield was the host to equate trick plays and magic. Both involve misdirection of attention.

    This is what this Deflation thing is. Why are we not talking about the two horrible calls in the Dallas games? Where refs even with replays couldn’t get pass interference or legal catches right.

    Seven years after the rule change the NFL is concerned with PSI?

    Rediculous

  161. Why are the texts even relevant? Seriously. The Pats’ ball were in the range predicted by the ideal gas law.

    If you charged someone with murder, and were building the case, text messages about how much you hated someone may be relevant; if it turns out the guy was not murdered but was just missing, of what relevance are the messages?

    What is so hard to understand that there was no deflating of footballs in the Indy playoff game? Maybe the Pats had done it in the past? Who knows? But to all you morons out there (including the commish and Wells), laws of physics clearly prove there was no deflating of balls for the game in question. END. OF. STORY.

  162. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:31 PM
    ennerut2000 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:03 PM

    And now your excuse for firing two guys who did “nothing wrong at all”? Seems convenient that they are innocent, but were fired and now the league has no recourse to contact them and get info, even though the patriots already told the league no to a second interview. I hope this goes to court, then patriots can hide the ball boys by firing them and Tom cant hide his phone behind the CBA. The ball boys could easily make a truck load of money by telling their side to TMZ, but my guess is that the Patriots already made them sign something saying they wouldnt speak- which is odd for a team that has done nothing wrong. But again, in Patriots logic, the ball boys just dont want all that money they could be making and just choose to not tell their side.

    ——

    The facts that you don’t get wrong; you flat out make up. You should work for Wells.

  163. Just like the OJ trial, keep attacking the “science” and overlook all the damning evidence

  164. imodan says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:28 PM
    Granting all you said is true then would you agree that Aaron Rogers, who publicly admitted using overinflated balls to his preference should be held just as accountable? Imagine the league suspending the league MVP and the SB MVP in the same year for the same offense? One had to be made the sacrificial lamb and the NFL office knew the public would roar for justice against the “cheatin Patriots” and even stacked the deck by leaking blatantly false information and never, ever correcting it………ever! If Brady is found to have done what he has been charged with so be it. But as a Pats fan I want equal justice for all players and teams in the league.
    ———————————————
    Wow. For the 1000th time, Aaron Rodgers did not admit to overinflating the balls to where they were against the rules. He did say he likes them more inflated than not and usually does so during practice games. The Packers were not ever caught or investigated for footballs used during a game. Stop trying to compare this to Aaron Rodgers.

    I do agree that any other team caught doing it should have the same punishment.

  165. If it were Drew Brees, he’d have gotten an entire season and forbidden to go anywhere near an NFL activity. #ThePaytonPrecedent

  166. imodan says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:30 PM
    bworacle says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:04 PM

    The statement in the article that the science is definitely flawed is not true. Different scientists came to different conclusions Happens all the time in science but it doesn’t make it flawed.
    —————–
    One vs one okay. But when one is the only one vs several others then that changes everything.

    —–

    The math in the Wells report cannot be duplicated. That means it is not only flawed (no ifs, ands or buts); but, it is fraudulent. No other scientists have backed up the Wells report or Exponents science. Being able to be duplicated is a requirement for accurate, correct scientific and mathematical results.

  167. evilrudedog says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:52 PM

    All that matter’s in this whole blown out smoke-screen is that you forgot about the cheating referees (and the guy on the bus with Jerry Jones) who gave Dallas a win over Detroit. See if we get a blown out investigation that might indicate a PLAYER was cheating, then you forget about the REFEREES who were cheating.
    =====================================================
    Stafford was in on it too man, he couldn’t wait to fumble that ball away, so much so he had to do it twice to finally seal the game.

  168. baltimore says: Jun 24, 2015 1:57 PM

    It isn’t about one game and/or the science involved. It’s about a pattern of doctoring the balls that was revealed in the texts and everyone knows that NOBODY does ANYTHING to the balls without the QB’s awareness/approval/demands. All this other crap is just a diversion to try to obfuscate the truth by Brady, his lawyers, and lame homer Pats fans.

    1. Brady cheated.
    2. Brady lied.
    3. Brady is still lying.

    The league has a responsibility to call him out for it and punish him for it.

    __________________________________

    1. Science and nature conclude that nothing out of the ordinary happened to the balls

    2. If by chance anything was actually done to the balls, there’s zero proof Brady approved it or knew anything about it. The argument “he must have known because nobody would do anything to the balls without the QB knowing” is absurd. That statement in itself is pure speculation. It’s like saying “that guy would never kill anybody” when the friendly neighbor next door turns out to be a serial killer. People do stupid things all the time for who knows what reason (maybe he was sick of listening to Brady whine)

    You feel pretty strongly about a dude you’ve never met and a circumstance you are only aware of by what the media tells you.

  169. Not unexpected because Florio is right. Ray Rice changed everything, and Goodell never gets any real backlash for bad PR. He’s never going to overturn an appeal ever again, because by constantly saying “guilty, guilty, guilty” at every possible turn, the focus never sticks to him, it’s always on the player. And by the time it gets to an actual neutral party, the public doesn’t care. They only remember the 3 times they were told guilty, not the one time they were told innocent.

  170. cornerstone2001 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:25 PM
    You Pats sheep are delusional. You think Goodell wants to punish his buddy Kraft and the Pats? This deflategate is not good for the league and its $$$.

    But it is so obvious they have much more than they are letting on. Kraft knows it and he folded. No one in the Pats organization has backed Brady including Bill B

    Brady is the denial king and liar. He know that admitting anything will tarnish him. Denying everything means he’ll
    appeal to his followers….

    ——-

    It is so obvious they have more than they let on….yeah, that’s why the league had to resort to putting out false statements they couldn’t be bothered to correct….you are delusional.

  171. nolasoxfan2012, it is posts like yours that keep me reading PFT, that and the part of my DNA that demands I defend people wrongfully accused.

    I loved the reference to a “kabuki theater”. Kyoto and Nara are two of my favorite places to visit. If only the Japanese concept of shame was enough to get Goodell to fall on his figurative sword.

  172. crush22 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:39 PM

    wryly1 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:29 PM

    Brady refused to cooperate with the process and let low level staffers take the fall. Not exactly a stand up guy. Notable that owner Robert Kraft isn’t appealing punishment handed out to the club. He knows the effed up and got caught.

    ———-

    And bailed on his QB by leaving the country.
    Tammy has no supporters except for the brainwashed Patsie* fans.
    —————————————————
    I’m sure you’re aware Kraft made an annual pilgrimage to Israel taking along 19 Hall of Fame players at his expense. A trip that is not generally easy to postpone. Then again, upon further review, I’m sure you weren’t.

  173. That’s Tom Defladys defense lol. Uh yea I didn’t do it. Sure, you didnt and had no knowledge of nothing. Way to play dumb. Even some of your oww fans don’t believe. Everyone knows your guilty.

  174. Wells report spent plenty of time looking at text from before and during the season to paint a picture that deflation wasn’t just during the AFC Champ game but something that was going on for a while. We know now that the Patriots couldn’t have deflated balls on road games. But there were 9 other home games where the Patriots had access to the Balls. The Wells report didn’t find ONE other time where the Balls went missing before the game. I’m sure they looked at video of every other home game (remember they spent 5mil). They went out of their way to establish that this was an on going issue but couldn’t find ONE other time when Balls MIGHT have been deflated after ref inspection!

  175. Clearly what Ray Rice did was worse from a societal point of view, but as far as any discipline goes, they are totally unrelated. From a football perspective what Ray Rice did has no effect on the game. What Brady possibly (probably) did could have an effect on the outcome of games. That is why steroids have an automatic 4 game suspension the first time and one year 2nd time, and use of recreational drugs on the first offense just gets you in the program with no suspension. One effects the game, and is punished more severe, one effects the “image” and has a less severe punishment.

  176. As someone who wants to see the Pretty Boy play week one, this sounds disappointing. Like more of the “aw shucks I got nothing to say, but I’m good looking so you all will think I’m innocent” image he displayed on TV.

    If Brady’s sticking to his story that he has no idea what’s going on with the ball boys, sorry, no sale. You can play all the junior scientist you want after that, it’s just plain fishy. Or as a certain league would say “more probably than not” someone’s fibbing here.

    Still, I hope his people find a way to get him on the field opening Thursday. “Big Ben vs. Little Jimmy” just doesn’t have the same ring.

  177. The last two leaks tell you exactly what you need to know about the process.

    The NFL came to the appeal considering it as a follow-up investigation, setting up the agenda, and expecting Brady to offer further information and convince them of his innocence but not by repeating his previous testimony.

    Brady’s camp came to the appeal questioning the Wells report and discipline process and reiterating the same old information without offering anything new.

    For what it’s worth I think this is playing more into the hands of Kessler than people think and the case is clearly headed to court.

  178. bigal5654 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:50 PM
    So let’s see… The only ones who know for sure are the equipment dudes and TB. If Goodell reduces the 4 games and one if equipment dudes blabs, it’ll be like the 2nd Ray Rice video and the media will crucify Goodell. If if he leaves it as is, let TB take it to court where the equipment dudes will be forced to testify and we’ll see what happens then.

    Knew what? No balls from the AFC championship game were tampered with. Morts report 100 percent wrong. Nothing illegal was done. This is a witch hunt

  179. The reason this wouldn’t happen in hockey is because gamesmanship is common in the sport. No one would care at all. This whole thing is literally the same as a hockey player’s stick being too curved at the end. And 5 mil and 6 months later the charade is still going on. So get off your high horse the blackhawks are a good squad but don’t forget what a punk Kane was and act like its unheard of for hockey players to push the envelope.

    Hockey will never be football and 75% of the country doesn’t even know who the blackhawks are.

    Comparing the hawks to Brady and the Patriots is sad. Patriots are 50x times more recognized and their dynasty trumps the hawks on rings alone.

  180. Why would Goodell ever want the truth to come out?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Didn’t Goodell destroy the truth the last time the Patriots got caught cheating? Time to pay the piper for that indiscretion. The longer Brady drags this out the less respect he’ll have from anyone not drinking the Patriots Kool-Aid.

  181. The equipment guys phones were taken in and viewed. If Tom Brady contacted them, doesn’t that mean they would have those messages?

    So even if Tom Brady did not turn over the phone based on the pledge of the investigators not leaking out anything ( we all know they wouldn’t ever do that), what is all the fuss about?

    Does the NFL think Tom has something on his phone that the equipment guys don’t have? Last time I checked, if I sent a text and you got it…..that means we both have it on our phones?

    I am truly at a lost over the phone not being handed over issue in this case. Am I missing something here?

    I don’t and wouldn’t trust the NFL to keep my private texts to my supermodel wife. I wouldn’t want our kinky texts leaking out for the world to see…anything wrong with that??

    Please correct me if I am wrong… now don’t even get me started on the science…

  182. Goodell approves & fully agrees with lies coming the NFL – 11 of 12 balls 2 psi under, and no one cares that they were lied too? By Goodell?

    Well$ report is laughed at by logistics, science, probability & reason from an overwhelming amount of credible & learned men, women & children. Well$ even goes as far as REJECTING crucial evidence because it did not agree with his opinion.

    That does not make you stop in your tracks and say ‘Hey Wait a minute’?

    Yet with no evidence to show guilt or Rule 17 violation you are willing to join in and slander an innocent person?
    Because because, because – his team beat your team.

    WOW – This is worse then second grade hysterics.

  183. Nothing was done to those balls, you jealous babies. Not 1 was tampered with. Even Walt Anderson agreed. The NFL is run by a bunch of disgruntled Jets fans and this board is full of jealous 45 year olds living in their moms basement, wishing they were tom brady

  184. As an impartial football fan, 2 games for beating you’re fiance on surveillance that everyone can see vs 4 games fit someone else deflating balls when it can’t be proven what if anything Brady knows I’d ridiculous and shouldn’t be any comparison. Knock it to 1 game for failure to cooperate in the original investigation and walk it off. It’s less than Rice originally got for an actually crime on real life.

  185. fanme57 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:49 PM
    Suspend him a couple extra games for wasting everyone’s time, and continuing to lie.

    No way in hell did Brady not order the ball to be deflated.

    What ball ? what month are you in? You still reading Chris Mortensens report?

  186. the NFL spends $5, 000,000 on a failed report and we can’t get end zone cameras?

    Seems a look at the money management aspect of the commissioners office is due.

  187. Well, of course, the NFL office is not going to be complimentary of Brady’s testimony. If you go on a witch hunt, you don’t say the testimony of the witch is terrible. Destroying someone is the whole point of a witch hunt.

  188. I can’t see how he can alter the Brady punishments without also altering the team’s punishment.

    If he says “Brady’s right nobody proved anything, his punishment is void.” the team should immediately challenge their punishments for the same reasons.

    As I see it, the only thing Goodell can possibly reduce Brady’s suspension, if and only if Brady handed over his phone. He could then say, “It would’ve been 2 games if he’d turn over his phone. But since he didn’t it was expanded to 4 games. Now that he’s handed over the phone, it’s back to 2.”

  189. tiedyeguy says:
    Jun 24, 2015 1:05 PM
    Why would Goodell ever want the truth to come out?

    “Talk about tin plated dictator with delusions of godhood.”

    One can only hope he continues to ignore science and the rule of law, so Brady’s legal team can make mincemeat out him and shame him in public.

    Nice Star Trek TOS reference! 🙂

    As to the whole mess, it more than likely is going to end up in court, and then be exposed for the witch hunt it is.

  190. @Bigal5654 —
    Or you look at the science first to determine if anything is fishy. Going back to the Wells report and the Exponent study, working from memory here.

    2 gauges used, Logo and non-logo. Referee thinks he used Logo gauge to determine pre-game legal air pressure of 12.5 PSI for Patriot balls, but possibility exists non-logo gauge was used.

    Half time used both gauges to determine PSI. Logo gauge showed balls were well within expected range of inflation due to Ideal Gas Law, Non-logo gauge showed balls were slightly below (.3 PSI). Both gauges also showed that the Colts balls lost air pressure as well as expected, although they were measured last.

    If you can argue that the referee’s recollection that he used the Logo gauage is more than 50% likely to have occurred, there is no possibility of cheating, as everything can be explained by high school physics.

    So why the hell not attack the Exponent report as there data shows the most likely scenario (Logo gauage used) has no violation occurring?

  191. stburke40 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:57 PM

    So once again we have an unnamed league source putting out information detrimental to the Patriots….so much for a confidentiality agreement. This is deja vu all over again!

    ———

    it’s the manifestation of the NFL’s definition of Intergrity

  192. I’ve read the report. The only things the text messages from the equipment manager’s phone confirm are:

    1: During the Jets game earlier in the season, league officials illegally over-inflated the Patriots footballs to 16 PSI.

    2: Brady was upset about the over-inflated footballs which were, according to the equipment manager, supposed to be set to Brady’s desired level of 13 PSI.

    The real mystery here is why this text message is not the primary detail being discussed in the Brady case. It shows not only that he didn’t cheat, that it was the League officials who illegally over-inflated footballs and that most likely, the “deflator” in this case was an equipment manager deflating a football back down to legal PSI levels.

  193. @lambeauleap

    What you have here is a bunch of Insignificant people who suddenly find themselves with an audience for the first time in their lives, getting drunk on keyboard courage and proceeding to pretend / act like they’re important.

    There’s so many pseudo judges and janitor / lawyer hybrids on this site, I fear for daytime television.

    ” I don’t needs no evidence. Guilty of all charges ”
    .

  194. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:31 PM
    ennerut2000 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 2:03 PM

    And now your excuse for firing two guys who did “nothing wrong at all”?
    __________________________________________

    This is why I don’t get the Patriot haters. They clearly did not read the wells report at all. If they had they would have seen all the text messages showing those two are liars and thieves.

    If you think they did nothing wrong I want you to get caught stealing 25 grand worth of equipment and memorabilia from your work and see how long you keep your job.

    That’s what makes me most mad at Hate-triots. Willful ignorance combined with being incredibly disingenuous.

  195. “Per a league source”… “Apparently”…”Some in the room”

    Riiiight.

    This is not a “news” story at all. More probably than not it is a complete fabrication from someone’s imagination.

    #AintBuyingWhatYerSelling

  196. Just like the OJ trial, keep attacking the “science” and overlook all the damning evidence
    ==
    The science is evidence, but it’s evidence that nothing happened.

  197. Let me make an analogy. Let’s say you work for a company (NFL) and your work day is set at 9am to 5pm (12.5 – 13.5)

    Sometimes you come in early and leave early too, there is no time clock to punch but you get all your work done. Some people stay late (Rodgers) but they too are very good employees. In fact many people take long lunches (Eli etc) but the boss never says boo. Well once he scolded Smith and Jones ( Minny and San Diego) but again no big deal.

    This goes on for 2 3 7 years.

    Then one day you leave at 4:45 and your boss sees you and rips you. He says he heard from Johnson (Colts) that you have been sneaking out early a lot lately. Of course he is never there when you stay late (16 psi) just gets mad this time.

    Your punishment is 3 months no pay. No bonus (no playoffs) and no 401k ( future compensation ie draft picks)

    How many of you would take that like a man and say you’re right boss?

    Pete Rose is taking the under.

  198. well if this is how the appeal went, then it would seem that Goodell has no reason to change the punishment.

    so we’ll have to wait and see if his balls are inflated enough to do so.

  199. Dear NFL Owners,

    Roger Goodell is making you ALL look like fools.
    Time to prove him wrong.

  200. guadalahonky says:
    Jun 24, 2015 3:02 PM

    Just retire already, Brady. You are becoming an embarrassment to the entire league.
    ——————————————-
    Now this is the type of statement the Patriot fans should be all over. He just won a freaking superbowl. He is one of the best QBs ever to play the game, like him or not. How is he an embarrassment to the league?

  201. The evidence is not the footballs anymore because it looks like ” the science ” is flawed, i think we all agree on that but there is other evidence that Brady was involved with deflation ie the texts and his lack of cooperation with the investigation. Pats fans will say no deflation no crime but we all know something happend and the texts pretty much say that. The NFL won’t accept the weight loss excuses which is laughable and will not be impressed by Bradys lack of help. Brady comes out of this as spoilt . He was once the shining light within a tarnished football team and now is he is just another tarnished individual in the Patriots camp. New England would have still won those championships and that’s what niggles the Patriots fans as they say Why?

  202. Brady took an oath; he did not have to. He knew that can be used against get him. If that did not impress the league, nothing will. The only thing that will satisfy the league is for Brady to force himself to admit guilt. Proclaiming innocence repeatedly does not fit the league narrative so they just brush it off to diminish Brady. Goodell will experience firsthand Brady’s wrath if he insist on pushing Brady around. Brady is mostly suave and contained; wait till the bulldog Brady comes out. His opponents repeatedly has taste of it once they ticked him off. Somehow I wish Goodell remains pig headed so he can rouse Brady. It will be most entertaining.

  203. 1) The suspension will be upheld. If Brady didn’t cheat, the Patriots would want their money and draft picks back right? Not going to happen.

    2) Brady will not go to court. Everybody on earth that doesn’t own a Patriots jersey knows he cheated. Despite the “experts” paid by Brady and the Patriots attempt to discredit the evidence against them. The best evidence really does point to tampering. In court he, McNally and Jastremsky will be ripped open for all to see.

    3) History proves that the most likely landing place for those that fight suspensions in court is the Commissioners Exempt List, a list that he controls and the team has no say about. Yes, Brady gets his checks while the court battle goes on, but he is not even allowed at team facilities, much less on the field. Peterson, Rice, and Hardy sat out all of last year waiting. Peterson and Rice won, but not sure Brady would consider it a win if he missed 10+ games to get there.

    He will take his 4 games, say he was railroaded and folks in New England will rally around him. It is the best possible outcome for him.

  204. This is why I don’t get the Patriot haters. They clearly did not read the wells report at all. If they had they would have seen all the text messages showing those two are liars and thieves.

    If you think they did nothing wrong I want you to get caught stealing 25 grand worth of equipment and memorabilia from your work and see how long you keep your job.

    That’s what makes me most mad at Hate-triots. Willful ignorance combined with being incredibly disingenuous.

    ———–

    The fact that Patriot Hater:

    WANTS Brady to be guilty of all of this….

    WANTS the Super Bowl MVP to have the distinction of cheat….

    Desperately WANTS it to be true that the Super Bowl champion is tarnished…

    …that tells you all you need to know about how much they care about the sport of football. Which isn’t a whole lot.

    I think that is despicable. As a fan of NFL and a lover of football I would NEVER cheer for asterisks for anyone no matter even if it’s a team I absolutely loathe. I would NEVER cheer for the Super Bowl champion of MY NFL to be tainted in any way shape or form.

    And yet Patriot Hater does. Clearly Patriot Hater has no respect for MY sport which I love watching every Sunday. I find that insulting to my superior intelligence.

    So that’s why none of us should feel bad at all going right up to Patriot Hater, laughing literally right in their grill and rubbing salt into their 28-24 wounds. 🙂

    And I will continue to do so for those reasons plus it’s SO MUCH FUN! 🙂 Clearly Patriot Hater loves dishing it out but those wussies can’t take it! LOL!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

  205. I don’t understand Pat’s fans : It’s all good when it is leaked about Brady getting good grades from the testimony,but when it’s leaked about what the league thought they are garbage – How does that work ?

  206. Why is there not a SINGLE journalist or reporter brave enough and decent enough to ask Goodell point blank why he allowed the BIG LIE of two PSI to stand for two months?

    Do reporters and journalists have no cojones anymore?

    We all KNOW Goodell and his ilk lied about this two PSI baloney. No one KNOWS if Brady is lying about it, yet most of the nation accepts the liar Goodell’s and his Jetscrement henchmen accusations against Brady.

    It is wrong. Plain and simple.

  207. The Greatest QB of all time is being victimized by the haters and those jelous of his superior talent. Brady did not instruct any clown to deflate the ball. He is the target and above all this, but some see this as their chance to kick the Patriots. Justice must be done for the integrity of the game. Brady is obviously completely innocent, but the witch hunt continues. All true Patriots join me in prayer for Tom and his path to justice.
    Complete exoneration – nothing less.
    And for the haters – just kiss the rings…

  208. Goodell will cover this up, just like he covered up Spygate. Useless.

    Senator Arlen Specter, who investigated the NFL after Goodell destroyed Spygate evidence, that Patriots had been cheating since 2000. Apparently they never stopped.

  209. You have to love the posts that start out as ‘ I am not a Brady or Patriots fan but…(he is innocent!) ‘ No one who is a pro football fan of any team doesn’t have a bias against the Patriots cheating. In support of Brady, Patriots fans are insistent that Brady didn’t have to cheat to beat the Colts in January. They also don’t need to lie about NOT being a Pats fan in their secret postings on the internet in support of him. No matter what the final outcome of this appeal, Brady and the Patriots have convinced the rest of NFL fans that even if the Patriots are not caught in the act, they still probably cheated in some way over the years. There have been too many complaints to the league office by other teams.

  210. Roger Goodell is Senator Geary from The Godfather. A self interested fool who will do anything to keep his ($44 million per year) job. Logic and fairness play no part in this decision, just personal interest.

  211. Its obvious that Tom Brady would have no knowledge of how the footballs were prepared. No knowledge whatsoever, after years in the league Tom would just leave that part of the game prep to the locker room guys. Again, Tom doesn’t have a clue what happens to the balls.

  212. “I HOPE this goes to court, my gut feeling is that Brady wont allow that due to what they will find when they cant hide behind the CBA’s rules of not having to show his phone.”

    ———————————————

    What kind of thing do you expect to magically be on Brady’s phone that wasn’t on those of the equipment guys’?

    If you understand how text messaging works, please explain.

  213. Why is there a public perception that the Patriots get special treatment when Favre was only fined $50000 for not cooperating with the league compared to over a million dollars for Brady. Remember, the suspension is for lack of cooperation not specifically cheating. Not defending the Pats, just asking for the reasoning. I think folks have swallowed the ESPN narative instead of thinking for themselves. Don’t forget they’re the same network that reported balls were 2 psi below limit and that was not true.

  214. Hockey will never be football …and maybe that’s not all bad.

    Champions in the NHL are honored by other teams (the handshake line is sincere) and their fans. And from what I read on comment boards, no fan sniping back and forth. Win with humility, lose without complaint. NFL Football will never have that.

    No matter how much it angers you – or whatever emotion it triggers – the fact is the 6 time World Champion Patriots are not an honored team except by their own fans.

    What’s the point of a championship if no one thinks of you as a champion?

  215. wah wah wah. “if this stands its a big conspiracy! Even though kraft is Goodells right hand man and goodell has zero reason to single the patriots out at ALL. Its still a big conspiracy theory. We are still the greatest even though we were found guilty of cheating for the second time!”. You patriots losers need to face the face that Brady most likely cheated. And no matter how close goodell and Kraft are, this is a second huge offense for the organization, and he cannot just let this slide on stupid technicalities. Lawyer will get drugg dealers off scott free based on the technique the cop used to arrest him……….does that mean the drugg dealer should be set free? ofcourse not. Enough of the technicalities and the 100 diff excuses to possibly explain all these text messages and everything else involved. There is a very simple solution that Wells came to, that Goodell came to and that every other fan came to. Its not that EVERYONE is wrong and patriots nation are the only sensible ppl on earth. Your just wrong in this case. Kraft took his punishment and he couldnt even be in town for brady’s appeal, that should show u that Kraft knows the real deal and is trying to stay out of this as much as possible.

  216. How this is the type of statement the Patriot fans should be all over. He just won a freaking superbowl. He is one of the best QBs ever to play the game, like him or not. How is he an embarrassment to the league?

    When you lie and cheat the integrity of the game to millions of people across the World. Your an embarrassment to the league. This has nothing to do with being handed the superbowl. He might be a good qb but he cheated to make himself better and the team. I have to agree with the other poster, its an embarrassment.

  217. This is not complicated and nobody is using common sense or for that matter science. What has been repeated over an over is something to the effect that: the equipment guys did “IT” and Brady must of know they did “IT”.

    What exactly is IT? The Wells report goes to great lengths to produce results of tampering with footballs that:
    – Ignore the best recollection of the ref as to which gauge was used.

    – Ignore the fact that the intercepted ball was gauged on the sideline by the Colts with a different gauge and it was within the range per the ideal gas law. In other words NO TAMPERING.

    – Claim that the Colts footballs were gauged right after the Patriots footballs BUT admit that they ran out of time. Despite it not making sense that they ran out of time with more than half of the half time break remaining. A “convenient” but not logical scenario ignoring the more likely event whereby the Colts footballs were gauged near the end of the half AFTER they warmed up – minimizing the PSI drop vs. the Patriots.

    – Either through incompetence or fraud, the Wells report produced results which cannot be replicated using the methods outlined in the report. In other words the scientific conclusions are doctored to produce a result on which the ENTIRE scientific conclusion is based. However, The Wells report results however can be replicated by using flawed modeling. Why is this not a problem?

    So after jumping through all of these hoops, the Wells report concludes that it is more likely than not the “IT” was that the Patriots intentionally deflated footballs. Just so you know what the IT is, the average for the 11 footballs with the low gauge was 11.10 PSI. For the high gauge the average is 11.39. PER the wells report, the range should be between 11.32 and 11.52 per the ideal gas law SO that it in the one unlikely scenario it is AT MOST .22 PSI off!!! What however the “IS” is very likely is that nothing happened as if the Patriots used the low gauge pregame at 12.50 they would be in the expected ideal gas law range.

    For the record it has been stated that nothing happened by:
    Tom Brady
    Bill Belichick
    Robert Kraft

    and they would know. Brady will accept nothing less than complete exoneration. Can you blame him if nothing happened? Are they all lying or just maybe by using common sense and science you can see that it is probable that no tampering occurred.

    As far as the texts being the smoking gun? NO the Footballs are the Smoking GUN. If nothing was done to the footballs and we know 100% nothing was done to the intercepted ball, then no crime/tampering occurred.

  218. Boy that Roger Goodell runs a tight ship, he has everyone sign confidentiality agreements and then less than 24 hours later here are the leaks…

  219. Kudos for a pats fan to put out the idea that they maybe melting from within. Weap on red herring crew!!!

    Time For Brady To Capitulate And Move On
    Written By: BG
    Posted June 24, 2015 at 2:18 pm
    0 4 0
    Reddit0

    “Oh I ain’t got a witness, and I can’t prove it…but that’s mah story and I’m sticking to it!” – Collin Raye

    The long awaited, much anticipated Tom Brady appeal hearing took place on Tuesday at 345 Park Avenue in New York. Brady shunned 1964 Beatles treatment and snuck in and out via a back door. Good decision, given that a zillion media types descended on this meeting, 40 people attended this hearing where usually only 12 attend, the meeting was held in a basement meeting room to accommodate the large number of people, and what was supposed to be a four-hour session took somewhere between ten and eleven hours. But Brady and his attorney Jeffrey Kessler had their say, and everyone’s goal of wrapping this up in one day (it would have bled into Thursday if more time were needed) was attained.

    How did it go? Not much information was forthcoming, remarkable given that 40 people were in that conference room. ESPN’s Adam Schefter, who probably has more eyes and ears than the late Will McDonough ever had, reported that Brady did well and he himself was “his biggest ally.” Kessler was interviewed after the hearing and seemed satisfied that they presented a good case. We won’t know what Roger Goodell will decide for several weeks, as is usually the case. Holding your breath over this is not in order.

    Everyone who can be listened to has an opinion on all this. Some of these opinions are well informed, others are based on instinct and emotion. Globe writers Christopher Gasper and Ben Volin have clearly stated all legal ramifications, whereas former Patriot Tedy Bruschi said that “(Bob) Kraft said he didn’t do it, (Bill) Belichick said he didn’t do it, Brady said he didn’t do it, and I believe them!” Bruschi is not alone in believing Brady should be exonerated based solely on what the heart is telling them.

    So, let’s do our own projecting.

    Brady and Kessler perhaps did nail it in the hearing. Given almost half a day, they had better have nailed it. One reporter said that Goodell now has a lot to think about.

    None of that may matter. If Goodell rescinds the penalty and exonerates Brady, he faces a ton of backlash which could spell the end of his being commissioner. Those folks who are predicting or “expecting” a Brady win are perhaps in for disappointment. Simply put, Goodell almost can’t exonerate Brady for any reason.

    If Goodell dismisses the suspension and any other sanctions, he comes off looking like a weak commissioner with egg all over his face. Such a move would completely negate and render completely moot the Wells report, making Wells (who was present Tuesday and did testify) look almost as foolish as Goodell. The other owners would be furious with Goodell, given all the money that was invested in this project. Kessler might have presented an iron clad case for Brady, but Goodell could lose his job if he feels he has no choice but to clear Brady, and will in any scenario choose his job and the shield over doing what might be the absolute right thing to do.

    Goodell will probably reduce the suspension to either one or two games. It is not likely that it will stay at four games. It will be like traffic court, where by merely showing up in person to a traffic referee means a reduction in your fine.

    And Brady should take this deal and be done with it. Maybe he can lobby for one game. But he should not go to any appellate court or federal court.

    Two major factors work against Brady if he wants to sue the league. He can only argue technical elements about the Collective Bargaining Agreement, not his guilt or innocence in deflating footballs. He would also be subpoenaed to produce any documents the court might require, which could in some way lead the general public inside the private inner sanctum of the Patriots.****

    Most people are under the false impression that a federal magistrate or arbitrator can rule on Brady being innocent of deflating footballs, causing such action to happen, or his knowledge of such activity. The feds won’t meander into that area at all. Where they have jurisdiction is whether or not the CBA was breached. Perhaps due process was compromised. Perhaps Goodell slipped up somewhere in the disciplinary process. It would have to be a technical question or error which an independent arbiter could rule on, with the decision being final and binding.

    In court, the feds could compel Brady to surrender any electronic communications he wouldn’t hand over to the league. Kraft and Belichick might quiver in fear if the feds went poking around their inner sanctum and discovered skeletons in their closets. Brady would not have the protections he enjoys now regarding privacy.

    Win or lose, the Patriots could come out smelling like a fish pier if the feds dig deep enough and reveal dirty secrets about “The Patriot Way”. And if Brady loses, his penalties could be levied during the playoff run instead of early in the season (the Patriots won the Super Bowl last year despite a 2-2 start).

    There is a reason why Kraft laid down his sword in February at the owner’s meetings. It would not be stretching things to suggest that Kraft tell Brady to do the same thing if he cannot win this appeal, which in all likelihood he won’t. Kraft would like this affair, which has gone on far too long, to just be over. The Patriots will still be champions, Brady will have sit out a game or two, and the Patriots can still make a Super Bowl run assuming Belichick figures out what to do about his dilapidated secondary.

    Brady has to do the right thing. He may indeed be totally innocent, but it’s not likely. A simple “I’m sorry” in January could have avoided all this. For him to be like Sergeant Schultz and know “n-n-n-n-nothing!” is almost impossible. Sooner or later, Brady will shake this off and resume his illustrious career. Fighting on may be very harmful, win or lose. Unless Goodell no longer wants to keep his job, there will have to be a fight to continue this regrettable NFL story arc.

    Goodell cannot capitulate. Brady must. That pretty much bottom-lines it

  220. steelcurtainn says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:16 PM

    Agreed. Pats fans say even if found guilty then this didnt even help him in any way. Ive never known anyone to cheat unless it helped them and was worth the risk. This yr we’ll see how his stats look in cold weather games with fully inflated balls (not dome games like the SB), and we’ll see the teams fumble ratio and if it goes back to like it was from 00-07. With every aspect of this- the “deflator” nickname, the ball boy talking about going to espn about Brady, the ball boy taking the balls into the bathroom, brady contacting the ball boy six times after the game, brady refusing to show his phone- i have ONE answer for all of that- HE CHEATED. Very simple. But pats fans will have a different excuse for everyone of those situations and we are supposed to believe all those random coincidences add up to this all being a big misunderstanding instead of just seeing a very simple truth. He cheated.

  221. marianfl24 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:05 PM

    I don’t understand Pat’s fans : It’s all good when it is leaked about Brady getting good grades from the testimony,but when it’s leaked about what the league thought they are garbage – How does that work ?

    ———–
    the league sources actually leaked the testimony.

  222. BRADY HAS NO ARGUMENT HERE, HE DIDN’T PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS STATEMENTS BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE!!!!….HE’S GUILTY AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT……NFL NEEDS TO DROP THE HAMMER ON BRADY……HE’S A CHEATER!!!!!

  223. marianfl24 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:05 PM

    I don’t understand Pat’s fans : It’s all good when it is leaked about Brady getting good grades from the testimony,but when it’s leaked about what the league thought they are garbage – How does that work ?
    _________________
    How does what work? Everybody already knows what the league thought. Why do you think the league has done nothing but spread lies since the very beginning? Why did Goodell refuse to step down as the judge in the appeal? They clearly don’t want this scandal to be judged on a balanced playing field, and this leak only further supports that notion. It’s not that they suddenly became garbage or that everything was “all good” beforehand, they were always garbage.

  224. Of course it went as expected. There were 31 texts to Goodell’ s phone shortly after the hearing ended reminding him to stay the course or else.

    THAT BEING BRADY GETS 4 GAMES…

    NO… MATTER… WHAT!!!

    On to the courts we go… Sometime in November… this whole thing gets thrown out…

    I cannot believe .4 PSI on one game ball in cold weather is being treated as a capital case. It is ridiculous!!!

  225. Three things always ignored:

    1. Tom Brady is a member of the NFLPA.
    2. The NFLPA agreed to the CBA.
    3. The CBA gave broad powers to the commissioner. Those powers include hearing appeals, making decisions on punishments, handling investigations and so on.

    You all complaining about these things just stop. When does Brady and his team of attorneys get called Hippocrates for reaping the benefits of the CBA (current level of salaries and benefits) and then saying that things already agreed to by Brady (through his Union) shouldn’t apply.

    Courts hate to interfere on these matters. This was collectively bargained. De Smith should get 10 times the level of hate that Goddell gets. He helped the Union accept this. Deal with it Tommy. Them’s the rules.

  226. xrodzillax says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:29 PM

    BRADY HAS NO ARGUMENT HERE, HE DIDN’T PRESENT ANY EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT HIS STATEMENTS BECAUSE THERE ARE NONE!!!!….HE’S GUILTY AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT……NFL NEEDS TO DROP THE HAMMER ON BRADY……HE’S A CHEATER!!!!!
    ______________________
    Lol. You really can’t know any of this. And judging by the clear partisanship of the masses following this scandal, I feel confident saying that not everyone knows it. Way to hate, bro. Just make sure the facts don’t get in your way

  227. Question: If the Patriots set the pressure, indoors at 72 degrees, at the minimum acceptable level, with the gauge that generally had higher measurements, is that cheating?

    Even though the pressure would be below the minimum acceptable level when the pressure was measured at halftime, the answer is no, that would not be cheating.

    That is the simplest, and thus most likely, explanation for what happened.

    Unfortunately, there are so many flaws/gaps in the process the league uses for ball inflation, that there is absolutely no way to tell with reasonable certainly what happened.

  228. bunkmcnulty says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:42 PM
    Three things always ignored:

    1. Tom Brady is a member of the NFLPA.
    2. The NFLPA agreed to the CBA.
    3. The CBA gave broad powers to the commissioner. Those powers include hearing appeals, making decisions on punishments, handling investigations and so on.

    You all complaining about these things just stop. When does Brady and his team of attorneys get called Hippocrates for reaping the benefits of the CBA (current level of salaries and benefits) and then saying that things already agreed to by Brady (through his Union) shouldn’t apply.

    Courts hate to interfere on these matters. This was collectively bargained. De Smith should get 10 times the level of hate that Goddell gets. He helped the Union accept this. Deal with it Tommy. Them’s the rules.

    ———–

    Brady asked for another arbitrator. He was refused. Then he presented his appeal to Goodell. He hasn’t once opposed the agreed CBA rules.

  229. So, here is his defense to an arbitrator within a business civil case:

    “I didn’t do it, but even if I did…I don’t believe you have enough evidence to prove I did”.

    Really? That’s the defense you’re sticking to Tommy Boy??! Wow! NOT the defense of an innocent man & no where near sufficient in a case such as this. Like it or not, this isn’t a criminal case & the burden of proof to find him liable is significantly easier than a prosecutor’s in a Criminal Case. Frankly Tom, I think you’re paying too much for your legal representation (even if it’s free). I would wish you luck with that…but I wouldn’t mean it. You deserve everything you get for being a liar & a cheat.

  230. Most people are under the false impression that a federal magistrate or arbitrator can rule on Brady being innocent of deflating footballs, causing such action to happen, or his knowledge of such activity. The feds won’t meander into that area at all. Where they have jurisdiction is whether or not the CBA was breached. Perhaps due process was compromised. Perhaps Goodell slipped up somewhere in the disciplinary process. It would have to be a technical question or error which an independent arbiter could rule on, with the decision being final and binding.

    In court, the feds could compel Brady to surrender any electronic communications he wouldn’t hand over to the league. Kraft and Belichick might quiver in fear if the feds went poking around their inner sanctum and discovered skeletons in their closets. Brady would not have the protections he enjoys now regarding privacy.
    ________________________
    I’m pretty sure you’re not making any sense with these 2 paragraphs. If the courts can only challenge the decision based on the scope of the CBA, then how does Brady’s phone play into that? Nowhere in the CBA does it say players must hand over their private cell phone information.

    But I’d absolutely say NE has a fight to pick in that CBA scope. Because the CBA says that only Goodell can hand down punishments. This punishment was given down by Troy Vincent, and Goodell stupidly confirmed as much in his letter saying he’d be hearing the appeal. That letter is a complete contradiction. He says that Vincent had his approval for their punishment because they discussed the deflategate incident, but yet he claims multiple times that he has no knowledge of the deflategate incident.

  231. Goodell cannot capitulate. Brady must. That pretty much bottom-lines it
    ===
    So many words. So much wrong.

    Look: Brady – not Goodell has nothing to lose. That’s why he sues – no matter what. Further, Brady’s suit against the league only has to point out the following:
    A) Goodell violated the CBA technically or,
    B) Goodell’s punishment was not supported by evidence or,
    C) Goodell’s punishment is disproportionate given facts and precedent.
    Proving any of those gets it the suspension thrown out. Contrary to your assertion, federal and state courts enter into disputes controlled by CBA’s on these grounds routinely.

    All that stuff you wrote about discovery? It doesn’t matter, because the contents of Brady’s phone, BB’s phone, or RK’s phone are irrelevant to both Brady’s attempt to prove A, B, or C from above and the league’s defense to Brady’s suit. For a court to order Brady (or Kensil, Wells, Kraft, Goodell’s), the litigant requesting it would have to prove relevance. Given the narrow grounds that the suit would be on – good luck with that.

  232. People keep demanding to see Tom Brady’s phone.

    I can’t blame them. He probably has some nice pics of his wife on there.

  233. If they suspended him for not cooperating fully then whether or not the balls were deflated on purpose or not, whether or not Brady was complicit in it or not, and whether or not he cops to it or not is irrelevant.

    He either DID cooperate fully or DID NOT cooperate fully in their attempt to determine whether cheating occurred. Even if they had determined that no cheating had occurred if he was suspended for not being cooperative then it could still stand. All this nonsense is for naught.

    If he didn’t cooperate fully then he’s getting the suspension as he should. Ever other employer in the world has this same right. If you don’t like it quit and find another job…

  234. In exchange for Robert Kraft having decided not to appeal, Goodell will reduce Tom Brady’s suspension to two games.

  235. steelcurtainn says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:16 PM

    How this is the type of statement the Patriot fans should be all over. He just won a freaking superbowl. He is one of the best QBs ever to play the game, like him or not. How is he an embarrassment to the league?
    —————————-
    When you lie and cheat the integrity of the game to millions of people across the World. Your an embarrassment to the league. This has nothing to do with being handed the superbowl. He might be a good qb but he cheated to make himself better and the team. I have to agree with the other poster, its an embarrassment.
    ——————————————–
    Fair enough. I definitely respect that. Just so you know I am on the side that thinks Brady is guilty and deserves punishment. However, it doesn’t take away from his accomplishments in the NFL. I really don’t think they were “handed” any championships. They had to work for each and everyone of them. Yes, they have been caught cheating in the past AND I do believe this was also cheating. But I don’t believe the outcome of the game would have been different.

    I do believe Brady is wrong here. But let’s not get too carried away and say he’s an embarrassment. He’s still a great QB in this league, still has a great, accurate arm and still gets the job done. We don’t know 100% what happened with the footballs and although I believe he’s guilty, I don’t take his talents away from him. He can still play football, like him or not. But again, I do respect your opinion.

  236. cornerstone2001 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 3:01 PM

    Just like the OJ trial, keep attacking the “science” and overlook all the damning evidence.
    —————–

    Except in this case, the “science” is the evidence, and not only is it not damning, it proves that the footballs weren’t tampered with.

  237. basedrum777 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 5:25 PM

    If they suspended him for not cooperating fully then whether or not the balls were deflated on purpose or not, whether or not Brady was complicit in it or not, and whether or not he cops to it or not is irrelevant.

    He either DID cooperate fully or DID NOT cooperate fully in their attempt to determine whether cheating occurred. Even if they had determined that no cheating had occurred if he was suspended for not being cooperative then it could still stand. All this nonsense is for naught.

    If he didn’t cooperate fully then he’s getting the suspension as he should. Ever other employer in the world has this same right. If you don’t like it quit and find another job…
    ———————
    Brett Favre didn’t cooperate, $50000 fine. Brady, 4 game suspension. Yeah, that’s fair and balanced. Meanwhile A.Rogers is league MVP despite bragging about sneaking over inflated balls past the officials. You can’t make this stuff up, only in the NFL.

  238. if he takes it to fed court put him on the exe list besides he was punished for not be fourth coming no due to the act of cheating

  239. Can’t wait to see Tom, Bill, and Kraft in a courtroom telling why they fired that ball handler guy and how he is the only one who had anything to do with it.

  240. Goodell hearing the appeal is part of the master plan. It assures that in court it gets overturned. Goodell can say i tried and Brady plays every game this season. Everyone is happy.

    Cept all you jealous haters out there!!!

  241. Brady has no idea what happens to the balls he throws. “they do what they do” I have no knowledge of the prep of the balls, not my job. Many pats fans also believe this.

    Quack!

  242. the guy is willing to cheat – I doubt he is willing to tell the truth. He got caught red handed and only in his liberal mind is his warped sense of reality.

  243. No way this goes to court. I hope it does. I’d love to see how Brady will compel two equipment men to continue to hold his line under oath.

  244. The sooner Goodell fries Brady the sooner we can eat him and move on with our lives.

    He’s a cheat. The Pats organization is too. They love astrisks. Screw’em.

  245. Turn over the phone or face suspension. If he doesn’t like it, he can sue. Oh wait, if he sues he will have to turn over the phone.

  246. Brady, if you’re innocent then produce some evidence. But don’t just reiterate the same point over and over. The text messages have been out for weeks.

  247. We all should be generally aware that giving an attorney $5 million dollars does not insure that the truth will be uncovered.

  248. I still find it hilarious that people who have no understanding of science keep bandying the term about as if it is the be-all end-all. Those of us who understand science know that, by its very nature, it is not.

  249. The punishment was harsh for two reasons;
    1. Obstruction of Wells investigation.
    2. He championed the rule change a couple years ago and used it to his advantage.

    Keep complaining Tom, if I was Goodell, the suspension will now be 8 games. Want to try for a season?? Keep it up!!

  250. Hey everybody! Did you know that anyone who thinks the Patriots are cheaters is a “hater” filled with “envy.” Have you heard that one before?

  251. More damaging leaks from the NFL that will go unpunished. Brady’s lawyer just said Brady did well and they presented a compelling case. The NFL decides to say that Brady wasn’t credible to start their media campaign already. They went on for 11 hours… I think the NFL source is simplifying Brady’s case and testimony. The NFL need to be held accountable for their tactics at some point. They are obligated to shut up and they still tried to smear Brady as much as possible.

  252. 5 million for hiring Wells wasn’t a large enough expense for the NFL? Kraft paid 1/5 of the tab and still the NFL continues to conduct a witch hunt. Let’s just give Brady the injunction and schedule this thing for court for the next offseason already! The Chargers get fined 20k for a towel covered in stickum, Panthers get fined 25k for heating the balls on the sidelines, Favre gets fined 50k for withholding information in regards to an NFL investigation, but Brady and the Patriots lose close to 3Mil and 2 draft picks? That to me is grounds for dismissal. Kraft paid the tab already lets move on. For all you ignorant haters calling Brady a cheater need to get over yourselves. This guy is a model athlete and a champion. Arguably the GOAT and this is how you (NFL) treat him? He and the Pats have done so much for the sport that I think its unreal as to how disrespectful you(NFL) has been towards both entities. I will be telling my kids the story of the great Tom Brady for the rest of my life.

  253. Here is the bottom line.

    The Patriots cried wolf too many times.

    Even if Brady did not cheat, He and the Patriots have previously. Enough is enough.

    Take your 4 game suspension, and like it.

  254. Those minimum-wage censors are guaranteeing the argument stays balanced, even though it’s a landslide in favor of Brady’s suspension.

  255. Well if we go to court we can attack the punishment under the CBA. I think that is where we win. We probably wont get far with the whole science thing alone but couple that with the witch hunt evidence a defamation of character and an unjustifiable punishment should be the nail in the coffin for Goodell. Goodell will be out of office by 2018. Thats my prediction.

  256. bullcharger says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:57 PM
    bunkmcnulty says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:42 PM
    Three things always ignored:

    1. Tom Brady is a member of the NFLPA.
    2. The NFLPA agreed to the CBA.
    3. The CBA gave broad powers to the commissioner. Those powers include hearing appeals, making decisions on punishments, handling investigations and so on.

    You all complaining about these things just stop. When does Brady and his team of attorneys get called Hippocrates for reaping the benefits of the CBA (current level of salaries and benefits) and then saying that things already agreed to by Brady (through his Union) shouldn’t apply.

    Courts hate to interfere on these matters. This was collectively bargained. De Smith should get 10 times the level of hate that Goddell gets. He helped the Union accept this. Deal with it Tommy. Them’s the rules.
    ———–
    Brady asked for another arbitrator. He was refused. Then he presented his appeal to Goodell. He hasn’t once opposed the agreed CBA rules.
    __________

    A person needs to say when they are wrong. Oh, my basic premise that the CBA governs this situation because it’s what has been agreed to is correct.

    But bullcharger makes a point I cannot dispute. TB asked for an arbitrator and was rejected. Then TB has followed what the CBA says. While the CBA does not mandate an arbitrator, I cannot blame TB for trying.

    So I am sorry. I was misplaced. It is all of you out there saying this “had to” go to an independent person to decide that all of my comments apply to. Thems just not the rules.

    Now, I will say TB violated the CBA by not cooperating with the investigation and not giving his text records. The CBA calls for the members to cooperate with investigations. Without subpoena power, that provision of the CBA was no doubt an essential from the league’s standpoint.

    The double standard here is amazing. Many of you want an independent tribunal to decide, you know like a court. But if this was a case in court TB’s phone records and texts could be subpoena’d. There would be probable cause to issue the subpoena because of the phone records already obtained that contain TB. You all can’t have it both ways!

  257. It’s “more probable than not” that Goodell, Kensil, et al at the NFL set up a failed sting operation (darn those Patriots – they refused to cooperate by deflating the footballs!)

    How do we know this? There’s a LOT of circumstantial evidence.

    Not only did the NFL offices leak FALSE information and leave it hanging for MONTHS when they responded to misinformation yesterday IMMEDIATELY…

    … NFL Senior VP David Gardi actually SENT A LETTER with the false information to the Patriots on 1/19 saying that NONE of the footballs were properly deflated and one was 2 lbs low

    Is it any wonder Brady appeared on edge in his press conference, likely wondering WHO on his staff had done that?

    Turns out no one had

    Then Dean Blandino is caught in a LIE about knowing about the deflation allegation and the sting operation…

    Then Kensil is boasting to the Pats they’re “in big f’ing trouble” because “we weighed the footballs”

    Then Wells himself says he’ll investigate the League itself – then refuses to do so and purposefully omits all the above information and more that show the Patriots to be innocent

    Yes, there’s TONS of circumstantial – and direct evidence showing that Goodell and the NFL front office personnel have been fabricating this scandal all along…

    Or, should I say “more probable than not” that the NFL ran a failed sting and has it out for the Patriots even though no deflation occurred.

  258. I let this sit for a day before reading the comments. And I came to an odd conclusion. Nobody that believes Brady is going to change their mind. Nobody that doesn’t believe him is going to change their mind. And yet more than 300 times people have said things trying to get the other side to change their minds. So I guess the only thing to do is kiss the rings.

  259. Appeal focused on science when the NFL can’t comprehend science.

    Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

    Fiction: Wells Report: Couldn’t prove footballs were tampered and the flawed report can’t even be reproduced.

  260. Thought there might be the appearance of impropriety, there is no evidence of it. If Goodell upholds the suspension, it clearly signals he is more worried about appearances than doing his job. Thus, he should no longer retain it.

  261. I hope this goes on forever. An incredible Superbowl win, being Superbowl XLIX Champions, NFL headquarters (the NY Jets retirement home) looking inept, legions of whining fans who can’t accept the Patriots championship, and the Patriots in complete control of all nfl news has made this beyond great. Math and science clearly showing the NFL has no case can’t confuse the haters.

    “Deflategate” is the result of a sting operation run by Mike Kensil and company in an effort so pathetic that it is true comedy. The way it has captured the attention of people makes it great because fans jealous of the Patriots success have completely forgotten about their own teams in favor of hating on the Patriotsis gold. It is truly a golden age for Patriots fans and I can only hope this carny act goes on and on.

  262. “Now, I will say TB violated the CBA by not cooperating with the investigation and not giving his text records. The CBA calls for the members to cooperate with investigations. ”

    TB cooperated with the investigations. “Cooperation” doesn’t imply “waiving privacy rights”. It’s very well-established law that an employer cannot punish an employee for not turning over his private phone records.

    And let’s not pretend that there was any interesting information on the phone. The reason given by Wells was to read any messages regarding the inflation of footballs. Wells already had all of those messages from Jastremski’s phone. The point of asking Brady to turn over everything relevant while saying “we trust you” was to try to tempt Brady into turning over a partial set of messages. If they had gotten Brady to say “these are all the relevant messages” while he left out copies of the messages they already had, they could have charged him with lying.

    Brady didn’t want to play their game. So now they’ve concocted the game of “failure to cooperate”. Let’s be blunt: this was always about “find a way to punish the Patriots”. When the NFL is looking to punish Brady for not turning over copies of messages that they already had, you know they’ve gone off the deep end.

    At no point in this process have the NFL bigwigs allowed themselves to consider the possibility that their initial presumption was incorrect. Or rather, they haven’t allowed _the public_ to consider this possibility. They’ve known from the first few days that they were wrong. That’s why they “leaked” false information to Chris Mortensen.

    And the haters happily lap it all up.

  263. ” Oh wait, if he sues he will have to turn over the phone.”

    Under what legal theory?

    A: Ted Wells demands phone
    B: Brady denies phone, saying they have no right to it
    C: Goodell punishes Brady for not turning over phone
    D: Brady sues to get punishment overturning, arguing that they have no right to his phone.

    E: Brady has to turn over his phone.

    Do you know what a procedural appeal is? Brady’s appeal would be based on the argument that the league cannot punish him for demanding that he waive his privacy rights. The actual content of his phone records doesn’t matter to such a lawsuit.

    Your argument makes no sense. You would have us believe that the only way Brady can protect his privacy rights is to waive his privacy rights.

  264. “I still find it hilarious that people who have no understanding of science keep bandying the term about as if it is the be-all end-all. Those of us who understand science know that, by its very nature, it is not.”

    I understand science very well and have no idea what your argument is supposed to be.

    The case against the Patriots was based on “evidence” that the Patriots had tampered with the footballs. Lacking any direct evidence in the form of a confession, or videotape, or witness testimony, the only “evidence” that a rules transgression had even happened was the Exponent report in the Wells report.

    Basically what happened was Mike Kensil and the NFL honchos saw the air pressures recorded and thought _the values recorded_ proved that tampering had happened. They thought this because they don’t understand the science of air pressure. When somebody on their side corrected their misapprehension, they moved the goal post, and tried to argue that the PSIs recorded couldn’t possibly have happened unless tampering had happened.

    It is a basic scientific fact that this claim is untrue.

    Without this claim, there is absolutely no evidence that a rules violation has even happened.

    Science doesn’t have to be an “end-all, be-all” for this argument to stand up. We’re not talking about quantum mechanics here: the physics of gas inflation have been well understood since the beginning of the 1700s. It’s as solid as any scientific theory out there.

    What is the imputation against science that you seem to allude to?

  265. “If he didn’t cooperate fully then he’s getting the suspension as he should. Ever other employer in the world has this same right.”

    No, employers in the US do not have the right to demand that you turn over your phone records.

    It’s called the Fourth Amendment.

  266. I want him to sue and I want the NFL to lose its eligibility for tax exempt status in the process, or separately. Enough of this vindictive, arrogant, scheming, conniving organization of pin heads! Also, I love comments from people who literally know zero about the facts or details but have absolute certainty about Brady and the Patriots actions and reasoning behind those actions – from what source did you get this brilliant commentary?! Pro OR con!

  267. “No, employers in the US do not have the right to demand that you turn over your phone records.

    It’s called the Fourth Amendment.”

    Wrong. The Constitution restrains the government, not your employer. Don’t believe me? Try out your 1st Amendment free speech rights at work by telling your boss his mama is fat and ugly. Be sure to report your findings.

    The CBA that Brady is party to requires him to cooperate with league investigations. He did not do that, at least not to the league’s satisfaction, which is as much, if not more, the reason for his punishment as the alleged air pressure shenanigans. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

  268. that was one hell of a super bowl, only matched by the parade. Can taste another one on the way. Brady is the best ever like his coach and owner. Butler may be the best ever too, like Gronk. So lucky to be a pats fan. Unbelievable. Sooooo lucky.

  269. He can’t exonerate him. People will jump off buildings. Plenty of fans are counting on this suspension to equalize things.

  270. The CBA that Brady is party to requires him to cooperate with league investigations. He did not do that, at least not to the league’s satisfaction, which is as much, if not more, the reason for his punishment as the alleged air pressure shenanigans. As usual, the coverup is worse than the original crime.

    _____________________________________

    I’m not a legal expert, but you would only have to turn over phone records, as a result of a subpoena in a civil proceeding or lawsuit. You could invoke the 5th amendment against self incrimination, but that obviously would look really bad, since this is not a criminal investigation.

    Furthermore, this was not a company phone or company computer, this is a personal phone. I’ve never heard of anyone having to turn over their phone outside of a court proceeding/lawsuit, etc.

  271. He can’t report his findings, because he uses work to get to the interwebs 🙂

  272. Cheaters gonna cheat. Liars gonna lie.

    Brady’s been cheating for years and newsflash- he’s already gotten away with it. He’s got the stats and the super bowl rings.

    Cheaters prosper in the NFL, and that’s just how it is.

  273. Brady is in a no win situation here,

    If he wins this appeal, that opens the door for 2 wrongful termination cases from the guys doing the texting.

    Brady could still get fined by the NFLPA. It union policy for “any active player to cooperate fully with any on going investigation.”

    According the NFLPA Code of Conduct adopted in June 2014: “It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, as an employee of the NFL or a member club, you are held to a higher standard and expected to conduct yourself in a way that is responsible, promotes the values upon which the League is based”. It is not enough simply to avoid being found guilty of a crime. Instead, illegal or irresponsible conduct does more than simply tarnish the offender. It sullies the reputation of others involved in the game, and undermines public respect and support for the NFL. Persons who fail to live up to this standard of conduct are guilty of conduct detrimental and subject to discipline, even where the conduct itself does not result in conviction of a crime.”

    So while Brady may prove the science wrong and that no balls were harmed or adjusted – the way he approached these accussations, and his lack of cooperation, knowing the rules of the NFLPA = he may still face a fine or suspension.

  274. Brady is the GOAT. Vincent and the imbecile Mike Kensil former Jets player now in the NFL office cooked up the witch hunt. They now know if Brady drags them into court Kessler will roast them on a spit and their jobs are over. I sincerely doubt Brady sat in hearing for 10 hours simply saying: I didn’t do it.
    This was so bungled by Goodell he should get fired as well. And here’s a big one for the imbecile haters out there: Why were 3 of the 4 COLTS balls tested UNDER INFLATED? Let’s put Luck on trial asap, duh. Clearly a ball can be legally inflated, put into play, and fall BELOW the minimum without anyone doing anything deliberate.

  275. djscottyb,

    nowhere in the NFLPA-NFL collective bargaining agreement is not sharing your PERSONAL cell phone with management, without due cause for the investigation of criminal activity, defined as “lack of cooperation”.

    The NFLPA’s position is that Tom Brady cooperated FULLY with the investigation.

    No union member has to give up his cell phone to management simply because THEY SAY SO.

    We do not live in Russia.

  276. Tom took a stand on turning over all electronic information. He gave his reason for not doing it. He was told of the possible consequences of his actions. He accepted those consequences. Can we just all let this go?

  277. This will never go to court and here is why,Brady did it,and the proof is in his phone,if this goes to court he will be forced to turn it over and he knows everything will come out. Watch and see how fast Brady changes his tune about going to court when the decision comes down.

  278. Brady is a great quarterback but now we will never now how great,the Patriots cheated football fans out of talking about him as we do Montana,Manning,Stauback,Unitas,Marino,Elway,Star,and others.
    He is great but the Patriots opened the door for that word “BUT” and it will never go away and that is sad,because without cheating he could have been a great quarterback on a couple of great teams that won a couple of Super Bowls, maybe four but we’ll never know because of all the cheating. If you don’t have to cheat don’t do it. Last years playoff history is changed and tainted and when your franchise waits as long as the Patriots did to win its terrible that the man in charge can’t help but screw it up for their fans.

  279. The real debate now will be if gets in the HOF on the first vote. I believe he will not get it on the first vote because of his actions and lies during this.

  280. hawks52 says:
    Jun 24, 2015 4:15 PM

    No matter how much it angers you – or whatever emotion it triggers – the fact is the 6 time World Champion Patriots are not an honored team except by their own fans.

    What’s the point of a championship if no one thinks of you as a champion?

    ====================

    Here is why it is hard to care what others think about the Patriot’s as champions and it is plain and simple.

    According to some, the Patriots are the biggest cheaters in NFL history and violate the integrity of the game.

    So it is to be believed that the following fall within the integrity of the game:
    Cheating the salary cap to keep a strong roster together
    Using stickum to improve your ability to catch
    PED and steroid use (widespread across the NFL)
    Heating the balls on the sideline during the game
    Tampering

    But the Patriots are the biggest cheaters and violate the integrity of the game for:
    One instance of filming from an illegal spot
    One instance of alledged deflation of footballs which physics dictates happens naturally

    One can be forgiven for not being able to understand physics, but it is far too easy for to look up the meaning of the word hypocrisy

  281. It goes without saying that no one here will be changing their minds, I just find it funny that Patriot fans would have everyone believe that they are the squeakiest clean team in the league.

  282. I could care less if Brady had the footballs deflated after the goony Refs had them overinflated.
    12.5 psi is legal and the NFL along with the Refs have NEVER recorded, registered, and logistically applied any type of controlled measuring of footballs – EVER.

    Cold Weather deflation of footballs = Blame Nature/Physics = You can suspend them four games and take them to court and see if they give a damn.

  283. Hive, you are correct, no one is going to change their minds. The only thing that will change is the excuses and justifications for TB’s lies and actions during this whole thing.

  284. It’s great to see the haters continue with their dribble and cling to Goodell.

    Goodell and the haters are on their very own Titanic voyage.

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