Did Brady give up his phone to Goodell?

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With both sides of the Tom Brady appeal keeping mostly quiet about what did or didn’t happen at last week’s full-day hearing, a question remains regarding whether Brady accepted Commissioner Roger Goodell’s indirect invitation to give to Goodell what Brady refused to give to investigator Ted Wells: The contents of Brady’s phone.

“[H]e refused to permit us to review electronic data from his telephone or other instruments,” Wells said during a May 12 media conference call. “Most of the key evidence in this case as in most cases comes from people’s cell phones and he refused to let us review the phone. And I want to be crystal clear, I told Mr. Brady and his agents I was willing to not take possession of the phone, I don’t want to see any private communications, I said, ‘You keep the phone, you give me documents that are responsive to this investigation and I will take your word for it’ and they still refused.”

Twice since then, Goodell has invited Brady to provide “new information,” without mentioning the phone.

“As I have said publicly, I very much look forward to hearing from Mr. Brady and to considering any new information or evidence that he may bring to my attention,” Goodell said in the letter to the NFL Players Association explaining his decision not to step aside from the appeal.

It’s not known what, if anything, Brady gave to Goodell either before or during the appeal hearing. As one source with knowledge of the situation explained it to PFT, Brady likely did not surrender enough to prompt Goodell to conclude that Brady fully cooperated with the investigation on a belated basis.

But “full cooperation” and “reasonable cooperation” are two different things. Brady had a duty only to reasonably cooperate. He and Goodell may disagree on whether Brady’s cooperation was reasonable.

Ultimately, the question of whether Brady reasonably cooperated could be one for a federal court to consider, as part of the broader question of whether the outcome of his appeal hearing should be overturned.

213 responses to “Did Brady give up his phone to Goodell?

  1. As far as “reasonable cooperation” goes, I don’t think it is reasonable to cooperate in your own persecution to any degree.

  2. I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.

  3. If he did, Steve Grogan moves back into 1st place as my all time favorite Patriot QB.

    And Bob Kraft is just behind Victor Kiam, somewhere on the owners list.

  4. Dude is guilty with a capital “G.” If my hall of fame legacy depended on giving up my phone, if I’m innocent like Brady has claimed all along, I’m publishing every deflate gate related text and sending it to Wells in a mass public email that protects me from the dopey NFL mischaracterizing any of it.

  5. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM
    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.
    —————
    Because Wells knew Brady wouldn’t do it, that’s why! By asking only for the relevant emails, Wells avoid the dopey Pats’ fans claiming that he’s only going on a “fishing expedition”

  6. If he did, Steve Grogan moves back into 1st place as my all time favorite Patriot QB.

    And Bob Kraft is just behind Victor Kiam, somewhere on the owners list.
    ________________________________________
    Fair weather fans are ridiculaous. We don’t need them.

  7. Patriots fans, the rest of the league is laughing at your excuses. If he had nothing to hide, why not give up his phone to save the greatest legacy in NFL history? Because he’s guilty – so instead, he will go the “deny everything” route and claim he was always innocent.

    Your QB cheated. How badly he cheated is up to every NFL fan to decide…….

  8. No way he gave up anything. He took, as it was relayed, a moral stance on why he would not produce them. Is he really going to change that now?

  9. I can see it now….Brady’s ostrich-skinned Bally wingtips hit the concrete as he exits his metallic pearl white Bentley, and hands Roger over his Swarovski crystal encrusted Vertu phone. Roger compliments him on it, and hands it right back. They exchange a few laughs over some Dom Perignon 1985 champagne, and the punishment is reduced to two games. Yeah, something just like that….

  10. NFLPA lawyers advised Stephen Gostkowski not to give up his personal cell phone. Brady’s agent Don Yee likely got word of this and followed suit under the notion that it would set a very bad precedent in the league’s already one sided power over the players.

    Just think. Every time there’s an investigation into a night club altercation or a failed drug test, the league could start asking for player’s personal phones to attempt to prove guilt. This is just crazy and likely the reason Brady refused to give up his phone per his representation’s advice. Since he know’s Wells had nothing on him and he did nothing wrong, he would have gladly paid the and appealed the Favre-esque $50K fine for “failure to fully cooperate.”

    But easier for haters to say “Ha! See! He’s guilty!!”

  11. I will admit that asking the accused to provide the relevant texts in a document seems strange.

    Must’ve been a trap. That the Brady camp didn’t provide a couple meaningless texts is confounding.

    Could it be that if you agree to give it up to him then somehow he legally has the right to verify their content?

  12. In the end, it’s also logical Brady told his equipment guys that the refs do a lousy job getting the footballs to 12.5 (sometimes they were arbitrarily and nonchalantly inflated to 16 PSI per Wells) and so they let a little air out thinking it was no big deal because it has always been a lax process to begin with.

    And if that is what happened…it is what it is and always should have been. NO BIG DEAL. League should have said “Hey…hey. Stop that” just like they did when the Viking and Panthers were illegally altering balls after ref inspection just this past year.

    But let’s discredit 15 years of greatness over a fraction of a pound of air pressure. How about this…play better football and maybe the Pats won’t dominate you all the time!

  13. I cannot see how Goodell can reduce Brady’s suspension without the phone.

    If Brady gave up the phone, then the door would be open for reducing the suspension “because he cooperated.”

    But if Goodell reduces the suspension without the phone, or any other new evidence, he would be opening the door for the team to re-open their appeal of the team’s punishment.

    Two punishments for the same crime, how can one punishment be reduced without reducing the other?

  14. Currently these are the actions presented to us by Goodell and the NFL NYC Office.

    1.) Coercion through Unchecked Rogue Authority that undermines the Foundations of Impartial Justice supported by Due Process.
    2.) GUILTY until Proven Innocent
    3.) Arbitrary & SEVERE Punishment without the requirements of sufficient evidence or substantiated discovery of facts. Ruling on opinionated “More Likely than Not”, NFL paid for, fishing trips.
    4.) Extreme Overboard Punishment (EOP) is a predetermined method enabling Authoritarian Leverage that is used to Pressure the Accused to accept guilt for a more lenient sentence.
    5.) Framing & Slandering of innocent/accused Party using the Media to perform as Jury rendering a verdict that complies with the NFL.
    6.) Rejecting of Scientific Evidence that does not agree with the Pre-Determined Prosecutorial End Product.
    7.) Now seeking tech savy enablers to utilize spying/phishing technology for more thorough social & private media sensitive info for substantiating & FABRICATING all of the above.

  15. People are jumping to conclusions, cause the only ones who knew what happen are Brady and everybody ‘favorite’ commissioner Goodell and everybody else was in the room during the appeal hearing and they won’t share it until he says what the decision is. Honestly this whole thing has been blown out of proportion and become completely stupid now and hopes the decision comes soon (which I hope gets Brady back in sooner instead of this going to court for he rest of the off or preseason.)

  16. Should have let the guy see the phone if there was nothing to hide. And the deflator has a weight problem nickname? Some “witch hunt”

  17. Why does wells think electronic data is more important than the science?

    Is that because the science proves he is wrong about Brady being guilty? Or does looking at the science call attention to his witness tampering?

    Wells promised a report with no unanswered questions. So much for that.

  18. Spot on with this…classy post, most Pats fans are just delusional.

    If he did, Steve Grogan moves back into 1st place as my all time favorite Patriot QB.

    And Bob Kraft is just behind Victor Kiam, somewhere on the owners list.

  19. Let me get this straight…Wells agreed to take Tom Brady’s word that any he would filter out any personal emails (hillary clinton-like) and provide only ones related to football PSI…

    BUT….will not take Brady’s word that he didn’t tell anyone to default the footballs…

    something makes no sense here. Since there is no such thing as proving you didn’t send a text, I suspect Wells was setting up Brady…nothing to win by revealing texts…only lose…and by lose I mean setting a precedent that NFL has a right to your personal property…

  20. Folks forget that the Wells report wrote that Tom Brady fully cooperated with investigators, answering every single question asked. Wells did not find Brady’s answers to be credible.

    If Brady turns over what he considers to be ‘relevant texts’, all Wells has to write is that he did not believe Brady provided all of the related texts to this case – or that he believes Brady left out the incriminating ones.

    It sounds so innocent, but Wells can spin that phone info any way he wants to. And in no universe was he going to spin this in Brady’s favor.

  21. The only people left who claim the Patriots cheated are the complete and utter filth of society

  22. I haven’t lost any respect for him one way or the other. I’ve never liked Brady, or any media darling, but this case has even me screaming FREE BRADY! Has anyone checked lucks neck for stickum?

  23. The classic Brady text to Cassel in 2008: “thx 4 taking the beatdown 4 me” lives on. Justice was denied, reality was robbed as Tom Brady got to witness total domination by the Steelers from the safety of the owner’s box. The beating he had coming, but escaped.

    Truly a high point in the history of cowardice.

  24. simple—If I am 100% innocent, you can have all the phone, twitter, email, US mail and all other info you want. Stick that “moral stance” junk. It floats not even the smallest toy boat.

  25. It was stated that his job was to reasonably cooperate so it really isn’t surprising that Goodell and Brady wouldn’t see eye to eye with this. I believe Brady innocent and people can say he’s isn’t but hey, they don’t know what happen in the appeal or what they said since nobody is revealing So it would be better for everybody to shut up and wait for the decision instead of bitching about it

  26. Jun 29, 2015 8:27 PM – bradwins says: As far as “reasonable cooperation” goes, I don’t think it is reasonable to cooperate in your own persecution to any degree.

    But if you’re innocent, it would be reasonable to assist in your exoneration.

  27. Brady is innocent of any wrong doing, and this little saga of deflating football won’t taint his legacy whatsoever, so keep crying haters, your tears will dry up someday….

  28. bradwins says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:27 PM
    As far as “reasonable cooperation” goes, I don’t think it is reasonable to cooperate in your own persecution to any degree.

    =====

    Pleading the Fifth doesn’t apply selectively. Either you give fulsome testimony, or you give none — by brady speaking in his own defense, if this was a court of law he would have waived his right to avoid self-incrimination. Can’t have it both ways.

  29. If this were federal court proceedings Brady would be charged with obstruction and tampering of witnesses. A Grand Jury would indict him in a heartbeat.

  30. Thinking about it a bit more…Wells was setting a trap for Brady as well as positioning his public opinion situation

    By asking Brady to reveal only relevant texts, we now has the ability to damage Brady if he did not reveal all the texts the JJ and JM that Wells already had – if Brady did not feel the same set of texts were relevant, then Wells would have more specific proof of failing to cooperate – which would be leaked all over the place….

    also, keep in mind that we only know the aspects of this investigation that are released by NFL (who only releases or leaks information supporting their cause – i think we can ALL agree on that). I have the feeling that “Brady did not fully cooperate because of X” was going to be the story line no matter what – if Brady gave up his phone, then it would be “Brady did not fully cooperate because of Y”

    there was no win here – If Brady gave up his phone and nothing was found, we wouldn’t have heard a word about the phone….

    the whole thing is a sham…

  31. As has been said countless times at this point, any information relevant would have been taken from the cell phones of the 2 balls boys in their dialog with Brady.

    If Brady’s suspension is rescinded…then so should the fines and the draft picks be. This thing is so stupid its beyond comprehension. To think the NFL has no recourse now to avoid looking stupid in hindsight with their stance that they MUST and are COMPELLED to enforce this farce makes them look even worse in my opinion.

    And it all starts at the top. Please ask yourselves
    one question…is and has Roger Goodell done a good job since becoming commissioner ?

  32. Everyone has their opinion, some people confuse theirs with fact. Truth is, none of us really know anything other than a few documented pieces of information that were published in the Wells report. Some text messages between JJ and JM, some halftime ball psi measurements, even less post game ball psi measurements, and a portion of Grigson’s email to Kensil & Gardi. That’s pretty much all the documentation. All testimony was based on best recollection, and Exponent’s testing and data analysis is subjective.

    Yet we have people here that seem to think they have all they answers.

    They don’t. None of us do. And we never will unless ALL of the testimony, correspondence, and data used to write the Wells Report is published.

  33. Brady most likely didn’t turn over his phone/records because it will implicate the REST OF THE PATRIOTS team in this. Edelman, Amandola, Gronk, EVERYBODY. THE PATRIOTS WOULD BE LOSING THE WHOLE DAMN TEAM PRETTY MUCH

  34. charger383 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:46 PM
    unless Brady let the air out of the balls in the huddle he did not do anything wrong.
    —————————————————-
    Well said. I completely agree.
    I once(shhhh) asked a guy to beat up this dude while I was at work. I did nothing wrong then too. I was at work. Unless guy came into my job, and I beat him up there, I did nothing wrong. Right buddy?
    I was eventually found guilty. Idk why??..
    It’s ridiculous. I more than likely involved was their rationale. They had no proof. All they had was my buddies text msg where he talks to other buddy, saying my last name, mocking me, and talking about what a control freak I was. That they need to do me more personal favors, in order to stay employed at my place, and get the freebies Ive been giving them as employees which were detailed in their conversations. I supposedly sent a communication asking him to please beat him up. But that’s not enough proof. I had destroyed that prepaid phone so they couldn’t get a hold of. Had to be smart.
    Yet they still found me guilty.
    I’m with you on this one.
    I’m admitting to this as I was found guilty.
    But my argument at time was reasonable to not find me guilty.
    So, as long as they have absolutely no proof,
    #freebrady.
    They have no evidence. Brady did nothing wrong. Key point is no evidence. Brady, do not give them your phone! As long as you stick to story, don’t cooperate, and no handing out of phone, we’re good imo. Patriot fans, I agree!!!
    #FREEBRADY
    Conspiracy.

  35. By the way, I had one if those phones in the picture back in 2000. If Beady is using one of those, I don’t think Wells/Goodell are going veto get much from it.

  36. The only things that can be determined from the NFL’s leaks so far:

    1. Brady’s lawyers DESTROYED the science of the Wells report – in front of Ted Wells and possibly researchers who produced the science, none of whom were able to defend it at all. The NFL has “severe doubts” about the science according to that Jason Cole leak.
    2. The NFL doesn’t want anybody to see the transcript of the hearing- they want Brady to accept some punishment (based on what exactly if the science is flawed and the balls weren’t deflated?) and agree not to sue.
    3. Per THE MAN himself (i.e., esteemed journalist Mike Florio), Brady just reiterated what he’d already said to Wells during the investigation, and the NFL was not impressed (so probably he didn’t show up with his phone).

  37. God himself could show up and proclaim Brady’s innocence and that still wouldn’t be good enough. What some of you meat heads don’t understand is a simple concept. If Brady didn’t do anything (and I’m not saying he didn’t, I’m just making a logical point) he can’t show the proof that he didn’t do something he was accused of doing.

    I will give a relevant example. PEDs. If I say “Tom Brady has been using steroids his whole career” and Brady truly hasn’t (or rather clearly hasn’t, lol), his failure to prove his innocence (and it wouldn’t be possible to prove he didn’t take them) doesn’t mean he is guilty. That is what all of you are arguing. You assume he is guilty, and you use his actions as proof. If he truly is innocent, he can’t prove that to people who believe he is guilty. It isn’t possible

    Did he do something to the balls? Maybe he did. But logic says that he is completely innocent of this charge. The whole “you can’t prove you didn’t do what you claim you didn’t do so you are guilty” routine shows how pathetic America is

  38. Best team, best QB.

    They dominate your team as well as your thoughts. It’s a TB’s world whether you like it or not.

  39. If that pic is Brady s phone, then it won’t help much.

    I wouldn’t let someone search my house without a warrant. Same with a phone.

    And I wouldn’t trust Goodell with the information and keeping it a secret. Just my 2 cents

  40. Brady would have known they had received the other guys phones. You don’t think he would be smart enough or his lawyers to have him remove any incriminating text messages had he decided to display I go from his phone? This isn’t about Brady not trying to cooperate, this is about Brady not allowing his employer to creep inside his personal rights and life.

  41. Why doesn’t Roger give up his phone wonder why plus I only care about pats fans I don’t care what other fans have to say they’re losers their teams are losers and they know they’re losers kiss the rings boys

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    Roster is as follows: 1QB, 2WR, 2RB, 1TE, 1WR/RB, K, 3LB, 2DT, 2DE, 2S, 2CB and 11 Bench and 2 IR

    at Yahoo: mjs0795

  43. This is all hypothetical. Pats fans dismiss this all as a jealous conspiracy. Everyone else realizes where there is smoke over and over, there must be fire. Brady’s denials baffle logic. People believe what they want, then seek evidence to find it. He’s a spineless jellyfish, no matter what, he should have got out in front and dealt with it, like a man. His actions are cowardly, brilliant QB and fierce competitor aside. He will always now be remembered for this. Sad for his fans, I guess I would pretend this is all made up too.

  44. n0hopeleft says:

    Patriots fans, the rest of the league is laughing at your excuses. If he had nothing to hide, why not give up his phone to save the greatest legacy in NFL history? Because he’s guilty – so instead, he will go the “deny everything” route and claim he was always innocent.

    Your QB cheated. How badly he cheated is up to every NFL fan to decide…….
    _________________________________________

    Patriots haters, the rest of the league is laughing at your ignorance! Any relevant text messages can already be seen on the other two guys phones. Therefore Brady has no reason to hand over his phone. Any other texts are none of their business. Of course he is going to “deny everything,” wouldn’t you if you were innocent?

    Fortunately for Brady he has a way to defend himself so no matter “how badly” you want to believe it is “up to “every NFL fan to decide” you really have no say in what does or does not happen.

    I know, I know… the truth really hurts sometimes.

  45. The Patriots have fumbled the least of any team BY FAR in the last 5 seasons. And now we find out why, they’ve been deflating footballs.

    You can look back and say a few fumbles extra per season and they would’ve lost out on #1 seeds and lost playoff games. That’s cheating.

    This era in Patriots history will forever be tainted by cheating scandals

  46. The only things that can be determined from the NFL’s leaks so far:

    1. Brady’s lawyers DESTROYED the science of the Wells report – in front of Ted Wells and possibly researchers who produced the science, none of whom were able to defend it at all. The NFL has “severe doubts” about the science according to that Jason Cole leak.
    2. The NFL doesn’t want anybody to see the transcript of the hearing- they want Brady to accept some punishment (based on what exactly if the science is flawed and the balls weren’t deflated?) and agree not to sue.
    3. Per THE MAN himself (i.e., esteemed journalist Mike Florio), Brady just reiterated what he’d already said to Wells during the investigation, and the NFL was not impressed (so probably he didn’t show up with his phone).

  47. Wells: “You keep the phone, you give me documents that are responsive to this investigation and I will take your word for it’ and they still refused.”

    Ok, but they already had everything related to the case since the Pats already gave them full access to the devices and email for Jastremski and Mcnally. Why does he keep asking for documentation that he already had? Why does he keep saying Brady wasn’t being cooperative when he made himself available to the Wells team for an entire day and answered all of their questions?

    Wells: “Give us all related documents.”
    Brady: “Don’t you have the dumps of Jastremski’s and Mcnally’s phones, along with their email?”
    Wells: “Yes”
    Brady: “Then you already have everything I could give you related to this case. What else could you possibly want?”
    Wells: “Well, give us your phone and let us be the judge of that.”

    Seems legit…

  48. Did Elway give back the money he and Terrell Davis took from under the table when the Broncos cheated by circumventing the cap? Serious question.

    From greasing jerseys, to PEDs, to taping practices, Denver has the worst history of cheating in pro sports. Fact, not opinion.

  49. If anything, he should have gave Roger yet another analysis shredding the Wells report that came out last week – “Deflategate and Errors in the Wells Report”

  50. justintuckrule says:Because Wells knew Brady wouldn’t do it, that’s why! By asking only for the relevant emails, Wells avoid the dopey Pats’ fans claiming that he’s only going on a “fishing expedition”

    _____________

    um, actually that’s exactly what he is inviting since he already has all of the phone dumps and emails from jastremski and mcnally. Do you not understand how texts and emails work? If you have the exchange from one party, then you have the related data for both parties. It’s really a very simple point. Since Wells has issues with knowing which gauge was used, and has had problems grasping the idea that weather affects the PSI in the gameballs, I guess this point would escape him as well.

    He has nothing else to turn over related to this case. Period. Turning over his phone raises all kinds of red flags. I for one wouldn’t do it. If you would, well, that’s your own level of brilliance I suppose.

    Not to mention the fact that Brady is an NFLPA rep, and the NFLPA even suggested he shouldn’t turn over his personal phone and email. That would set an insane precedent for every other player in the league. Brady has the clout to deal with this. How well do you think some scrub 4th stringer would deal with turning over access to personal devices if Brady set the precedent to just hand over free reign without thinking twice. Sorry. You and the rest of the NFL can believe whatever you want. We all know you passed judgement long before this nonsense started. Line up at the trough with the rest of ’em.

  51. No way should any employee be asked to hand over their personal phone, emails, letters, or banking information. Company phones, email accounts, memos – sure. Personal information – not a chance. Especially when that company is looking for information to discredit you.

  52. n0hopeleft says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:52 PM
    Patriots fans, the rest of the league is laughing at your excuses. If he had nothing to hide, why not give up his phone to save the greatest legacy in NFL history? Because he’s guilty – so instead, he will go the “deny everything” route and claim he was always innocent.

    Your QB cheated. How badly he cheated is up to every NFL fan to decide…….
    —————————————————————
    We can all see how extensive your knowledge of the law is, which apparently enough to fit in a thimble.

    How exactly did he cheat, by the way? PLEASE tell us the evidence upon which you base this learned conclusion. By refusing to hand over his personal cell phone which may or may not have texts from players since he’s a players rep that could be harmful to them? Because, you know, the league has such integrity and leaks never happen, right?

    Anyway, four Lombardis, six SB appearances, yearly playoff runs, blah blah blah. Yup, greatest of all time. Get used to it. We got another run coming this year.

  53. Dude is guilty with a capital “G.” If my hall of fame legacy depended on giving up my phone, if I’m innocent like Brady has claimed all along, I’m publishing every deflate gate related text and sending it to Wells in a mass public email that protects me from the dopey NFL mischaracterizing any of it.
    ——————

    EXACTLY

    Best Regards

  54. “They exchange a few laughs over some Dom Perignon 1985 champagne”

    Dude, that’d be awful. Champagne goes bad after 10 years.

    Trump will be sworn in as President before this goes to court.

  55. The problem is, after spygate all of the Patriots switched to disposable “burner phones” so nobody in the organization could be traced while they’re carrying out all of their shady schemes or committing murder.

  56. “documents that are responsive to this investigation and I will take your word for it”

    Wells didn’t take anyone’s word for anything, why would we believe he would do it now? He was looking for any missed text message, no matter how innocent or irrelevant to scream “I caught him”, he didn’t hand over the “Merry Christmas” text to the deflator which was clearly part of this investigation. Wells has no legal right to this info on Brady’s phone, the NFL does not legally have the right to punish Brady for refusal, so it was a no win situation for Brady which will turn into a no win situation for Dumb (Wells) and Dumber (Goodell) in a court of law that will see through their charade.

  57. Brady doesn’t have a constitutional safe guard against the NFL. If his employer asks him for something, and it’s not specifically prohibited by the collective agreement, he’s leaving himself open to being disciplined for not co-operating with the investigation.

    There’s no right to remain silent etc. for him. If he doesn’t co-operate, the league has a right to discipline him for refusing to co-operate, much less what they find in the original investigation.

  58. If he did, Steve Grogan moves back into 1st place as my all time favorite Patriot QB.

    And Bob Kraft is just behind Victor Kiam, somewhere on the owners list.
    ________________________________________
    Fair weather fans are ridiculaous. We don’t need them.
    —————————————

    And now the infighting begins……

    Best Regards

  59. Every team and player looks for a competitors advantage at all times.. Call it cheating or whatever you want to call it.. I would say that about 100 percent of fans from losing franchises would love to be in the Patriots predicament and be champions . Saying that, I’m from Boston and I don’t give a rats ass what’s going on with deflate fate , I just know that we are super bowl champions and that’s all that matters . Title town !!!!!!!!!!! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

  60. Judging from the items you have written on deflate gate, it seems like TB is positioning himself for a legal battle with the NFL – that every move he has made has been calculated to this end since he already knows what the NFL will do – It’s sad that even though he may win the damage is till done – Imagine yourself being in his position where the powers that be have an agenda to nail you to the wall even though you are completely innocent – If the NFL wants to protect the shield it should be done ethically and professionally which will command respect from the rest of the league – This Keystone Cops approach will only instill a dictatorial fear reminiscent of Hitler and Mussolini – I do not the think the healing can begin for the league until there is a wholesale restructuring of all personnel in the NFL office – In the meantime, Im sure Roger will have more innocent victims.

  61. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM
    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.

    ************

    It accomplishes 2 things:

    1. It removes the excuse of the person not wanting unrelated private messages to be read and/or made public (although Patriot fans continue to use that excuse for why Brady didn’t comply).

    2. It can indicate whether or not the person is hiding something. In Brady’s case, if he didn’t deliver the texts that Wells already had, it would have exposed him as not providing relevant evidence. If Brady handed over more than what Wells had, it obviously could have shed more light on what happened.

  62. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM
    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.
    —————————————————-
    Exactly, and that would have been written in the Wells report as, “based on the fact that Brady’s lawyer claimed there was no pertinent information, we found it more probable than not that the lawyer was lying.”

    How in the world could Brady’s team trust that? And how in the world could Brady be expected to turn over his communications to a league office that basically leaks everything they get their hands on?

  63. Wow Goodell and Wells do not have subpoena power. So if one does not give up their fundamental rights to privacy one will be treated like or considered guilty.

  64. “Reasonable cooperation” or any cooperation for that matter, would likely mean Brady would have to tell the truth. He seems to have refused. Clearly offering any new info was a path for Brady to help clear the air; it was the best chance to get his suspension reduced or even thrown out. But he’s thumbed his nose at it. If a person is innocent, he’s want to prove it. If I’m a Patriots fan spending thousands on season tickets, I’d be looking at my QB to come clean; Pats fans are going to pay full price for their games. Cry me a river.

  65. Anyone else getting tired of the NFL’s issues having to be resolved in court?

  66. Really gotta love the haters who who speak like TB is the ONLY QB in the League that likes his footballs a certain way…FYI…he has admitted (and it has been printed for everyone’s eyes to read) he likes his footballs at 12.5 psi…perfectly legal. There are several other QB’s out there that have their preferations as well…so let’s just call your posts what they are: haters gotta hate

  67. I really wish we had better reporting on this phone question. I have read a few things that weigh in Brady’s favour on this: 1. that labor law prohibits employers from demanding private phones, or from concluding guilt from a failure to provide them; 2. that the CBA also protects private phones; 3. that the league has only rarely demanded players private phones, and did not in Bountygate; 4. that League officials did not turn over private phones in the investigation of its own handling of the Ray Rice charade; 5. that the NFLPA is encouraging Brady not to surrender his phone as a matter of principle.

    And of course, Gostkowski refused and is not being punished at all, and Farve refused as was given a minor fine.

    All of this would seem to strongly suggest that the draconian punishment of Brady – which is pretty much entirely based on this refusal to surrender his phone (since nothing else has been proven against him) – is on pretty thin ice if anyone other than Goodell himself ever considers this matter. Which is why Goodell doesn’t want any kind of neutral arbiter reviewing his and Well’s pathetic mismanagement of this.

  68. This clown is a disgrace to football, athletics of any kind, & most of all fair play. Any organization that trots this guy out as the face of their franchise has abandoned all ethics & cares only about the bottom line. Thank God my family are not Pat fans because i don’t have to confront them with taking away any football gear. There are actually people & coaches in this country that still care about & teach sportsmanship. Just not in professional sports. My family & myself personally are some of the most competitive people you’ll find but we all agree that success in competition is only meaningful when competing on a level field. How the NFL let Brady to continue to compete last season after the disgrace he not only brought on himself but his team & the whole league still baffles me. I’m quickly losing my patience.

  69. Wells obviously wanted Brady’s phone to see if there were text messages from the two locker room nitwits.
    Wells already had the “nitwit’s” phones and found nothing. Wouldn’t it be logical that if Brady was texting to these guys the conversation would be on their phones?
    Assuming, of course, that there were no deletions!

  70. Brady is the greatest of all time.
    so of course he attracts the whining of scientific illiterate crybabies who only snivel because their team is a loser and they don’t care about actual football greatness.

    28-24 , keep the tears flowing all you sore losers. it’s a reminder that not only did I enjoy watching a thrilling victory I get to enjoy schadenfreude all summer at the expense of tear streaked babymen.

  71. We all here in New England feel ashamed by Brady. Sad that our quarterback has to lie about this, he still is a good quarterback, lousy person thinking he could pull the wool over our eyes.
    I will never go to another New England game and sold my season tickets. Cheating will always be a part of the game, fess up when caught and we will forgive. Lie to us and you stink.
    Brady is a liar. Period.

  72. Brady doesn’t have to bring “new evidence.” He is the accused. He doesn’t, or shouldn’t, have to “prove innocence.” Wells and Goddell are out of control.

    Everyone giving Wells and Goddell a pass just because they don’t like the Pats would be outraged if prosecutors treated them like this — and yes, even if it was in the workplace and not a “court of law.”

  73. Is the US the only country in the world where people don’t understand that a text message is saved on both the sender and recipient phones?

    All the nuckleheads who want to see the texts on Brady’s phone – you’ve already seen them!!!! DUH

  74. Outcome of proceedings are irrelevant. Blind (and dumb) devotion by patriots fans is irrelevant. He’s been convicted in the court of public opinion by anyone who read the texts. Branded a cheater and a liar for life. Down to the last year or two of his phony career. Case closed.

  75. “You guys, we got Brady’s phone! Now we’ll get to the bottom of… oh, these are the same texts we already read with Brady as the sender. Weird.”

  76. jrossizzle says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:46 PM

    No way he did. Unless he scrubbed the hell out of it

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    Already with the moving of the goalposts.

    Haters claimed that Brady would never let himself testify under oath.

    Haters were wrong.

    Now maybe – maybe – Brady allowed access to his phone. None of us know if this happened, but already haters are in revisionist mode.

    Whatever it takes to convince yourself that Brady is guilty of something, I guess.

  77. I am sorry but Brady made the right move but not giving up his cell phone. Do I think there is something on that phone about deflatgate…yes but i wouldnt trust the nfl with any personal information on any electronic device. The NFL is supposed to keep wonderlic tests at the combine private but every year someone’s gets leaked out. With Bradys being a face of the league plus with his celebrity wife, I am not taking the chance of having any personal information show up on TMZ

  78. Has anyone considered the possibility that there is an underlying reason Brady won’t share his text messages concerning DeflateGate?

    A very good reason that would explain quite a bit?

    With all the hand wringing over testing, reports and Ideal Gas Laws one thing has been completely overlooked. Perhaps on purpose?

    Brady is on record as stating that he gave multiple signed and inscribed footballs and other souvenirs to both McNally and Jastremski to quote “help them out”. McNally and Jastremski have previously stated that these were practice balls.

    Could it be possible that the texts Brady is refusing to turn over would also prove he knew the balls were being sold as something other than practice balls? Would these same texts also provide proof that McNally and Jastremski were not reporting these sales as income? If not, what exactly did Brady mean by giving them these items to “help them out”.

    Far fetched? I don’t think so.

    If true, wouldn’t Brady, McNally, Jastremski and the Patriots themselves have a lot to lose?

    To me at least, it explains Brady’s reluctance to turn over the texts. It explains McNally’s and Jastremski’s continued silence. It explains Belichick distancing himself from the whole affair.

    Tax evasion and fraud are much more serious issues than a lousy 4 game suspension.

    Please… discuss. I’d love to hear Patriot defenders explain all this away.

  79. Bottom line. Every qb adjusts the footballs to their liking. We aren’t shocking the world here. Not every qb will go as far as having the balls adjusted right after they are inspected by the officials to get them the way they wants. It HOW they did it, not what they did that’s the problem. The shady intent and Roger Clemens type denial is why no one is buying that Tom had no part in this. Those “ball boys” aren’t smart enough to do this on their own, why? They are freaking ballboys! Brady is simply insulting fans intelligence to attempt to save his golden boy legacy.

  80. Any information they needed from Brady’s conversations with the ball boys they can get from the ball boys phones. You blundering idiots. Any conversation would be on both phones.

  81. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM

    The purpose was that if Brady is anything but 100% honest then the investigators will know. If brady gives them 3 pieces of evidence and they get 6 pieces from other phones they can say “you didnt show us these 3 other things, why not?” or if Brady’s team gives them 3 pieces of info and the investigators only get 1 piece from other phones then brady just gave them more info than they had. So unless brady’s team was going to be 100% honest then they were going to incriminate themselves, hence why they opted to not cooperate.

  82. If Brady had given up his phone, Belichick would have been suspended for a year.

  83. There is no doubt that he was involved in the decision to deflate the balls.

    That being said, I really could care less.

    Give the guy a fine and get over it, already.

  84. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM

    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.
    _____________________________________

    I’m with you! How does it make any sense to say you’ll accept a person’s word that they have turned over all relevant communications, but not accept that same person’s word if they say “I’m innocent?”

  85. 34bo34 says:Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM

    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.

    —–

    Especially when the report comes out and they don’t take your word on anything, according to the report. So why would they suddenly believe him if there was texts on his phone that somehow weren’t on the ball handler’s phones that proved his innocence. Anything that he or they said that went against the guilty verdict was considered unlikely to be the truth, so why would providing his phone change that?

    It wouldn’t.

  86. n0hopeleft says: Jun 29, 2015 8:52 PM

    Patriots fans, the rest of the league is laughing at your excuses. If he had nothing to hide, why not give up his phone to save the greatest legacy in NFL history? Because he’s guilty – so instead, he will go the “deny everything” route and claim he was always innocent.

    Your QB cheated. How badly he cheated is up to every NFL fan to decide…….

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    If everyone is laughing at the excuses, why doesn’t Brady just roll over? Is it blind pride? Do you think he’d go this far if he’s guilty as you so self-righteously claim?

    If science proves no deflation took place (or at least that there is not enough evidence to convict), what relevance do text messages about a deflator more than a year before the incident have on this situation?

    Especially since all of Brady’s texts would have been on the deflators’ phone as well. That part about text messages being a two-way street seems to have eluded you.

  87. The cell phone issue is a red herring anyway. No NFL player has ever handed over their personal phones or contents. If Brady did, that would set a dangerous precedent for other players. What would be next, allowing Wells to search your house? Maybe interview your spouse and children? Wells knew he wouldn’t do it so he would have this silly accusation that Brady did not “cooperate” enough.

  88. People are being so dumb about this it’s hilarious. And all because Brady is the best QB of all time!! Which is pathetic but hey that’s football fans for you. We now know the Patriots did nothing wrong based on many many lab experiments since Wells was hired to say the Patriots had done something wrong. Also, what’s RIDICULOUS about This whole phone thing is that Wells literally says he would have 110% trusted Brady to tell him what was useful from his phone and what wasn’t. So that means he has the utmost trust in Tom Brady except when he says he didn’t deflate any footballs and science backs up Tom Brady on top of it. But IF Brady had chosen to tell Wells what info on his phone was useful Wells would have taken that as the total truth??? LOL, That’s insane!!! Wells is a hired gun here, he’d have found another reason to say tom did something bad

  89. The CBA is such a joke. I love all of the vague language in there. I’ve been saying all along in various threads — does the CBA specifically state that players have to give up phones? What about financial records? What about their wife’s phone? Wells was on a fishing expedition but there weren’t any fish. So, they he just made up a conspiracy about the fish all agreeing to hide on him instead of admitting that he’s either a bad fisherman or there’s no fish to catch.

  90. What am I missing here…Brady would have had to text someone, presumably the two guys that are accused of deflating the footballs. If inspection of their cell phones didn’t come up with any texts from Brady, why would his phone?

  91. justintuckrule says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:37 PM

    34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM
    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.
    —————
    Because Wells knew Brady wouldn’t do it, that’s why! By asking only for the relevant emails, Wells avoid the dopey Pats’ fans claiming that he’s only going on a “fishing expedition”
    ______________________________
    It was never a fishing expedition. The phone is one of Wells biggest reasons for his conclusions. Brady couldn’t fight that fact no matter what he did because Wells has already predetermined guilt. If Brady hands over anything less than all of his private records, Wells was still going to frame Brady as uncooperative and maybe even counterproductive to the investigation. And Brady would and should never hand over all of his records to the NFL under any circumstance. Especially under this regime with its substantial problems with media leaks. Privacy is a right. Brady cooperated reasonably, and he has good reasons not to cooperate further. Let’s not pretend that the phone contains any new evidence. You haters are looking for blood, whether it be from some imaginary smoking gun to Deflategate, or some other irrelevant issue that you can try to slander him for. That’s why you really want the phone.

  92. The only thing that makes any sense for the NFL is to suspend all penalties for 2015 and spend the season measuring game balls before and after games to see the laws of physics applies to the NFL (they do).

    This will get MUCH worse when it comes out that every NFL team playing in temps below 60 F “cheated” since the dawn of the league.

  93. “n0hopeleft says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:52 PM
    Patriots fans, the rest of the league is laughing at your excuses. If he had nothing to hide, why not give up his phone to save the greatest legacy in NFL history?”


    Because the league has been leaking false and defamatory information about this case since literally day 1. He has WAY more to lose by releasing that phone. Some jackwad in the front office would start leaking texts he sent to Gronk at 2 a.m. from the Kentucky Derby, or some other unrelated info designed to embarass him

  94. The only thing that makes any sense for the NFL is to suspend all penalties for 2015 and spend the season measuring game balls before and after games to see the laws of physics applies to the NFL (they do).

    This will get MUCH worse when it comes out that every NFL team playing in temps below 60 F “cheated” since the dawn of the league.

    ——

    This is an excellent point. If Goddell sticks with his 4 game suspension, then he’s setting a dangerous precedent. If we start to learn that the other game balls are measuring similarly, he’s going to have to start suspending other players 4 games or take the heat.

    Of course none of this will matter to all of these guys hating on the Pats. They’ll rationalize if it comes to their team.

  95. Goodell has to say, or at least act as if, he’d be open to new information from Brady at the hearing. Otherwise he’d be accused of a lack of impartiality. A lack of partiality by the arbitrator and a corresponding absence of due process in the arbitration are among the few potentially valid claims Brady could raise on appeal in a federal court. Goodell would never surrender the appearance of being impartial.

  96. The way the NFL leaks things to the media, why would anyone ever trust them with anything especially private phone records? Like the other commentor said above, if he was texting with the two low level employees, then why not use their phones? And this is coming from a Jet fan. Goodell is an imbecile. He is actually starting to make Bettman look competent (although he just announced plans for expansion, so it’s still too close to call).

  97. Love how league execs never had to give up info from their personal phones for the Mueller report but Brady is expected to give up info from his. “Do as I say, not as I do” isn’t a great management style, Roger.

  98. It never would have been enough. If he gave up his phone, they’d have claimed he used code words or semaphore to communicate. Men that ignore the laws of physics and their own standards of evidence do not want the truth.

  99. This will get MUCH worse when it comes out that every NFL team playing in temps below 60 F “cheated” since the dawn of the league.

    The League has nothing to do with the integrity of the weather. What they do have control over is the integrity of the game and the people who play it. So when one of them cheats in order to exercise an advantage over their opponent, that’s where they step in. That falls directly into their bailiwick.

  100. They are looking at more than just Brady’s correspondence with jj & jm. Want to know who is all in the cheater crew (Belicheat, Adams, Kraft, players).

  101. I’m trying to figure out how Wells’ team missed that Deflator comment in the first place. You’d think THAT would have been the main focus of the interrogation of McNally that was an entire day long.

    The piece of paper with that word printed on it should have been at the top of the stack with the word highlighted.

  102. bradwins says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:27 PM

    As far as “reasonable cooperation” goes, I don’t think it is reasonable to cooperate in your own persecution to any degree.

    ——————————————————–

    Robert Kraft said the Patriots would cooperate
    100% with the investigators.

    I would assume that Brady would attempt to clear his name. Instead, he did not give 100% cooperation, and instead, decided to stonewall.

    With this stance, Brady can sit his ass down for the first four games, as originally ruled by the league.

  103. If he gives up phone texts and messages and it has no “smoking guns”, no suspension

    If he give up phone texts and messages, and it has “smoking guns”, keep 4 game suspension

    If he does not give up phone texts and messages, 3 game suspension

  104. Brady more than likely said “you know how I like them “keep them legal as low as possible”

  105. At this point, any person calling Brady a “cheater” obviously is not following the story. The latest is perhaps the most damning for the NFL’s case. Do you realize that Exponent is a corrupt business that firms hire to get a pre-determined result? You can’t make this stuff up.

  106. @ The only thing that makes any sense for the NFL is to suspend all penalties for 2015 and spend the season measuring game balls before and after games to see the laws of physics applies to the NFL (they do).

    This will get MUCH worse when it comes out that every NFL team playing in temps below 60 F “cheated” since the dawn of the league.

    ——

    This is an excellent point. If Goddell sticks with his 4 game suspension, then he’s setting a dangerous precedent. If we start to learn that the other game balls are measuring similarly, he’s going to have to start suspending other players 4 games or take the heat.

    Of course none of this will matter to all of these guys hating on the Pats. They’ll rationalize if it comes to their team.
    ———————————————————–

    Its already been proven that Brady was leading a conspiracy to alter the game balls, which is completely different than any natural fluctuations that may (or may not ) occur. He has already been proven guilty. At this point, its just a question who all was involved.

  107. There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else. So, if the above is in anyway true, or even partially true, which would also include suspicion, than he is guilty of concealing, and therefore collaborating with cheating.
    That the part of honesty and integrity that the entire NE Cheater organization refuses to understand. As usual, just like a crooked politician, they want to know where the smoking gun is. After all, if a wideout noticed it, why didn’t the QB?
    You Cheaters can play your games, or use the magic show smoke and mirrors routine all you want. But some of us are raising the BS flag.
    You should be stripped of all Superbowl victories, and Brady suspended for a year. Maybe then you will understand, but I doubt it!!!!!

  108. After the AEI report was thoroughly debunked, by a Patriots fan no less, this is pretty much a wrap, with or without the phone.

    Oh, I know, you’re going to say “the most important thing is he still disagreed with the Wells Report.” Of course he did, he’s a Pats fan, lol. But what’s important here is the science, remember?

    Exponent has been vindicated (by a Pats fan) and AEI has been exposed as a bunch of hacks, they can go back to denying climate change and starting wars.

    The funniest part of it all is that he thought he was helping.

  109. He is guilty of something…..either deflating footballs or cheating on his wife. It could be one, or the other, or both, and the evidence is on his phone.

  110. If wells has concluded it was a three man operation , and he has, and he has two of the three cell phones, which he does, then why does he need Bradys?

    Answer- he doesn’t. Not for proof anyway . It’s all about making Brady appear guilty

  111. j huber says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:28 AM

    There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else.
    ________________________________________

    Every quarterback handles the ball more than anyone else, and every football taken from the warmth of the officials’ locker room onto the field on a very cold day loses air pressure.

    So here’s my question. How is it that no quarterback has ever commented on the fact that these footballs are softer when put into play in cold weather? If there is no doubt that quarterbacks can tell the difference, it seems that someone would have mentioned this at some point in the long history of the NFL.

  112. “letmefeelyourlove says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:47 AM
    j huber says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:28 AM

    There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else.
    ________________________________________

    Every quarterback handles the ball more than anyone else, and every football taken from the warmth of the officials’ locker room onto the field on a very cold day loses air pressure.

    So here’s my question. How is it that no quarterback has ever commented on the fact that these footballs are softer when put into play in cold weather? If there is no doubt that quarterbacks can tell the difference, it seems that someone would have mentioned this at some point in the long history of the NFL.letmefeelyourlove says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:47 AM
    j huber says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:28 AM

    There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else.
    ________________________________________

    Every quarterback handles the ball more than anyone else, and every football taken from the warmth of the officials’ locker room onto the field on a very cold day loses air pressure.

    So here’s my question. How is it that no quarterback has ever commented on the fact that these footballs are softer when put into play in cold weather? If there is no doubt that quarterbacks can tell the difference, it seems that someone would have mentioned this at some point in the long history of the NFL.”

    Because “softer” isn’t the same thing as lower PSI. The balls, are actually harder in the cold (they have moisture in them that freezes).

  113. “I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.”

    The point was that the request had no investigatory value. The league already had all of Brady’s texts to Jastremski. What they wanted was for Brady to hand over some texts and claim that he’d handed over everything. And then if he’d held anything back that they knew about, they would accuse him of not cooperating.

    Or if he held the phone back altogether, they would accuse him of not cooperating.

    If he handed over everything, they would have a precedent to use against other players in the future.

    It’s a win-win for the league. And it has nothing to do with investigating whether balls were tampered with. It’s all about finding something to charge Brady with.

  114. Why would Brady do Goodell any favors after Goodell tried framing him? “Uh, Tom, we really screwed up…. can you bail me out by handing over your phone so we can make some more lies up about you and leak them to espn again?”

  115. Patsstinkoftaint

    You never even read the AEI report. Its most vital points were not debunked.

    You’re also not very smart if you think Ben Volin is a pats fan. I bet you think Ron Borges and Mike Felger are Pats fans too just because they’re in the NE media.

  116. “There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else. So, if the above is in anyway true, or even partially true, which would also include suspicion, than he is guilty of concealing, and therefore collaborating with cheating.”

    Amazing what you can get away with by using the word “it”.

    I love your second sentence. If he’s guilty, or “partially” guilty, “which would also include suspicion” then he is “guilty of concealing”.

    Where on earth do you get these arguments? So if you are suspicious of somebody, he’s automatically guilty of something? I guess we can throw away thousands of years of jurisprudence. You’ve managed to hit upon the secret of determining guilt: suspicion along is proof of guilt.

    Oy vey.

  117. “After the AEI report was thoroughly debunked, by a Patriots fan no less, this is pretty much a wrap, with or without the phone. ”

    That’s completely untrue. The AEI report wasn’t “thoroughly debunked”. The point in question is relatively minor to the thrust of the AEI report’s main argument: that Exponent didn’t consider the temperature change as a possible factor in the difference between the Pats’ and Colts’ footballs.

    DeSarno found he could replicate Exponent’s results with his default settings for ANOVA. AEI was also able to replicate Exponent’s results, but had to fiddle with the various variables to find how and when they worked. Given that DeSarno hasn’t actually told us what his default settings are, he hasn’t yet explained where, exactly, the problem lies. He might simply not understand the issue that the AEI researchers are getting at.

    Regardless, his action doesn’t constitute a “thorough debunking.” Which brings me back to the question I always seem to need to ask: why are you dishonest?

    How do we go from a person self-reporting a minor issue to your interpretation that this is a “thorough debunking”? I’m going to assume you’ve read neither the Wells report nor the AEI debunking.

  118. “Love how league execs never had to give up info from their personal phones for the Mueller report but Brady is expected to give up info from his.”

    Yes, Brady can argue that he was just following the NFL’s lead in defining what a person’s level of cooperation should be.

  119. Folks, just because an object loses air pressure does not mean it automatically gets softer? Stick a wet tennis ball in the freezer: It will turn to a ball of ice AND lose air pressure.

  120. Wells basically admits the phone kerfuffle is a baseless pretext for punishing Brady.

    He says, “‘You keep the phone, you give me documents that are responsive to this investigation and I will take your word for it.”

    Well, since Brady didn’t instruct anyone to tamper with footballs, that would be nothing. If he thinks investigating the phone is really relevant, he’d want full access.

    Here’s Wells investigating someone for dealing drugs: “Just give me access to the parts of your home where you stash the drugs, and I’ll take your word for it the rest of the house is clean.”

    His comments make no sense, because the purpose of them isn’t to further his charade of an investigation, but to provide a pretext for labelling Brady ‘uncooperative’ by making an unreasonable demand which will be predictably refused.

  121. The best part about the whole thing, is that this offence does not merit an INVESTIGATION, if you are caught red handed you get fined. Punishing the guy based on the fact he doesnt hand over his phone for the NFL to leak everything it has in there, is absolutely pathetic. The league has the communications of the ONLY two guys who handle the balls. They need nothing more.

    I think it’s weird that if he intentionally used deflated balls, that they would practice with lower inflated balls and you have to think at SOME point Brady would have said something to someone about it, and one of the HUNDREDS of players he has played/practiced with, would have figured this out, at some point, but havent.

    Funny how quiet all the other QBs are in the league while this is going on too…

  122. Brady can not give up his phone! He CHEATED and lied, and phone proves it! He can not go to court unless he destroys records. CHEAT—debunk that AEI!

  123. @straightfactshomie – you’re not very smart if you think I’m talking about Ben Volin.

    wispersd:

    “How do we go from a person self-reporting a minor issue to your interpretation that this is a “thorough debunking”? I’m going to assume you’ve read neither the Wells report nor the AEI debunking.”

    I’ve read them all, and that is one of the lamest arguments you guys use. You can minimize his findings if you want, it’s not like any Pats fans have been objective about any of this. AEI ignored his email. It’s not a minor issue, the Exponent numbers were repeatable, a major point. But keep on repeating the Spygate mantra: It was just some minor variables.

  124. Pats fans think the haters are “looking for blood” demanding production of the phone.

    WRONG! True NFL fans, like myself, would hope that Pats’ fans are right!!!! We’d hope that all that was there were texts that Wells already had from the ballboys.

    If that is all that’s on there, why not turn it over then in a mass public email so that Wells/Goodell couldn’t skew it????

  125. Love these fans that claim they’d so willingly give up their cellphone for an investigation about involving them. Is that right?
    I’m not suggesting the possibility of “something” involving Brady (and quite possibly his wife) would somehow pop up on TMZ five months later, I’m flat-out guaranteeing it.
    “But I thought all of this was confidential? How could this happen?”
    Too late now…

  126. I see this as Brady drawing a line in the sand for not only his own privacy, but for that of ALL players employed by the NFL. Sorry, but an employer had no right to invade your personal privacy and demand personal text messages and emails – Period. Furthermore, the ball handlers had already turned over text message and emails between themselves and Brady, so they really didn’t need Brady’s.

    I hope Tom Brady takes this appeal as far as he needs to take it to be exonerated unless the NFL can prove absolutely that he was guilty of anything other than being one of the greatest QBs in NFL history.

  127. promickey says:
    Jun 30, 2015 1:24 AM
    Wow Goodell and Wells do not have subpoena power. So if one does not give up their fundamental rights to privacy one will be treated like or considered guilty.
    _____________________

    That is an absolute twist of facts. The fact is the CBA that union members approved (Brady being one) says players will cooperate with League investigations. When you don’t follow what your Union agreed to, and then a cast of guilt comes over you as a result, I think you should be upset with your Union for agreeing to such a vague condition. ….BECAUSE, when your try to protect yourself, you now look guilty.

    By the way, if this was in court, there would be no fundamental right to privacy.

  128. Per the CBA, Brady is under NO obligation to turn over his phone records. Brady answered ALL of Ted Wells questions during an extensive interview. That constitutes reasonable cooperation. The NFL had numerous leaks leading up to the investigation, thus there was no reasonable expectation of privacy. Also, based on the Wells Report, there is NO way that Ted Wells was going to accept anything less than an admission of guilt as far as cooperation. Wells connected random events in a complex and utterly irrational manner to support his pre-supposed conclusions of guilt. EVERY reputable scientific review of the Wells Report’s own data shows that their was NO intentional deflation of the footballs, thus any text messages are irrelevant because there was no rules infraction.

  129. bunkmcnulty says:
    Jun 30, 2015 12:30 PM

    promickey says:
    Jun 30, 2015 1:24 AM
    Wow Goodell and Wells do not have subpoena power. So if one does not give up their fundamental rights to privacy one will be treated like or considered guilty.
    _____________________

    That is an absolute twist of facts. The fact is the CBA that union members approved (Brady being one) says players will cooperate with League investigations. When you don’t follow what your Union agreed to, and then a cast of guilt comes over you as a result, I think you should be upset with your Union for agreeing to such a vague condition. ….BECAUSE, when your try to protect yourself, you now look guilty.

    By the way, if this was in court, there would be no fundamental right to privacy.

    —————

    As the article says, they have to reasonably cooperate. Giving up a day or more of his personal time and knowing that any texts or calls he sent or received from the two ball attendants were already made available to the investigation I believe he reasonably cooperated. The team probably already provided email records too.

    Reasonable is a commonly used legal word and the point of it is to allow for someone to judge if the request is reasonable or not. When discovery happens in a legal case the cost of producing records and the necessity is considered and a judge decides if it is reasonable request providing more records or not. In this case the prosecutor basically just decided it was unreasonable which helped his case.

    If Brady just complied he would have set a new precedent for the league of what reasonable cooperation meant. That was a smart move and it protected the players union.

  130. You Ceater’s fan are still not answering the million dollar question. How did a wideout, who only gets the ball every once-in-a-while notice the difference, when Tom terrific never did? Dah!!!

    You folks have been to the Bill Bele-cheat school of denial, think everything is fair if you winning. But when you get caught, you cry like a little girl. Boo-Hoo, everybody is out to get me, and I can’t imagine why? Suck it up wimp!!!!

    The Cheaters should be stripped of all Superbowl victories, and suspended from the league for a couple of years.

  131. drgreenstreak says:
    Jun 29, 2015 9:43 PM
    If this were federal court proceedings Brady would be charged with obstruction and tampering of witnesses. A Grand Jury would indict him in a heartbeat.

    ——————-

    LOL! If this was a court the case would be thrown out due to lack of evidence that a crime was even committed. And the Prosecution would be warned that if they continue to waste the court’s time they will be held in contempt.

  132. Suffice to say, I hope Tom Brady absolutely did NOT turn over his cell phone text messages and emails — in principle — and that he fights the whole idea that the NFL has any right whatsoever to them with everything he’s got.

  133. Why is everyone so hung up over text messages? they are irrelevant. The SCIENCE proves there was no intentional deflation of the footballs. Everything else is just deception from Ted Wells to cover up that he has NO credible evidence to support ANY of his conclusions.

  134. sactogary says:
    Jun 29, 2015 9:36 PM

    Jun 29, 2015 8:27 PM – bradwins says: As far as “reasonable cooperation” goes, I don’t think it is reasonable to cooperate in your own persecution to any degree.

    But if you’re innocent, it would be reasonable to assist in your exoneration.

    ——————

    Allowing his own mobile phone to be searched could not assist in his exoneration.

    Best case they would find no additional texts about anything. That wouldn’t change the case much with the exception that Brady would have been seen as someone who cooperated. The existing texts would still be out there. Also the NFLPA would be really mad at him in that case for setting a precedent where providing player mobile records becomes part of reasonable cooperation going forward.

    Worst case Wells would find another text or communication between Brady and Belichick or Kraft that could be misinterpreted or taken out of context that would implicate others in the investigation and would make the team have to provide more explanations which no one would believe anyway and Brady would still be hated by the NFLPA for releasing the records.

    That’s what you call a no win situation.

    He made the right move.

  135. And for you legal experts, this is contract law, stemming from the CBA. This is not criminal law, as some of the bathroom lawyers are trying to contend.

  136. justintuckrule says:
    Jun 30, 2015 12:09 PM

    Pats fans think the haters are “looking for blood” demanding production of the phone.

    WRONG! True NFL fans, like myself, would hope that Pats’ fans are right!!!! We’d hope that all that was there were texts that Wells already had from the ballboys.

    If that is all that’s on there, why not turn it over then in a mass public email so that Wells/Goodell couldn’t skew it????

    —————

    A massive celebrity married to another massive celebrity is going to publicly release all his personal text messages. I’m sure that would go well for him.

  137. 34bo34 says:
    Jun 29, 2015 8:29 PM

    I don’t understanding the point of asking a person of interest in an investigation to provide only relevant cell phone communications in a document and that you will take their word that they have complied.

    ———–

    The point was to make it seem like a reasonable request for cooperation which he knew would be refused, which bolstered his case as it made Brady look uncooperative.

    Brady wasn’t going to provide personal mobile records of any kind and it was pretty obvious there is no way he would do it based on the history of the NFLPA, but if Wells asked for all records it would be definitely seen as unreasonable. Pretty smart way to deal with it from Wells perspective.

  138. They can’t even keep the game balls safe from tampering, who in their right mind would trust the NFL to keep their private and personal text messages safe and off of TMZ? Why is nobody making a big deal out of the lack of league security and methods of operation and custody of the game balls if their inflation is such a big deal to the game?

  139. j huber says:
    Jun 30, 2015 10:28 AM

    There is no doubt that Brady knew about it, or suspected it, because he handles the ball more than anyone else. So, if the above is in anyway true, or even partially true, which would also include suspicion, than he is guilty of concealing, and therefore collaborating with cheating.
    That the part of honesty and integrity that the entire NE Cheater organization refuses to understand. As usual, just like a crooked politician, they want to know where the smoking gun is. After all, if a wideout noticed it, why didn’t the QB?
    You Cheaters can play your games, or use the magic show smoke and mirrors routine all you want. But some of us are raising the BS flag.
    You should be stripped of all Superbowl victories, and Brady suspended for a year. Maybe then you will understand, but I doubt it!!!!!

    ——————

    The balls were all really close to 12.5 when they came on to the field. Even Wells science shows that. How could Brady tell they were deflated significantly when they actually weren’t. You may want to read the Wells report instead of the day 1 news leaks from the NFL.

    No QB in the league in the conditions on that day could have told you the difference between those footballs even if you fully agree with the Wells version of the science. It would be the same as any other game where the balls were at 12.5 when they left the Officials’ Room and on field conditions started to affect the air pressure.

  140. huber says:
    Jun 30, 2015 12:52 PM

    And for you legal experts, this is contract law, stemming from the CBA. This is not criminal law, as some of the bathroom lawyers are trying to contend.

    ————-

    It’s not even contract law yet really. The NFL is an organization imposing CBA rules.

    The actual contract isn’t in discussion yet.

    There is nothing formally legal about the way any of this has been handled so far.

    Starting with a private investigator who is provided the privilege of issuing judgment with no counter arguments allowed after evidence has been presented.

    Also, the actual judge is the leader of the organization that instituted the investigation in the first place.

    That isn’t like a legal process at all.

  141. volleyballnstuff says:
    Jun 30, 2015 12:41 PM

    Do you honestly think its fair for Brady to ask for full exoneration while not cooperating and him as well as the Patriots franchise are directly inhibiting the investigation? Thats like if my g/f thinks im cheating, someone told her i was. She asks for my phone, i say “no way, you cant look at my phone, but im innocent” she says “ok let me talk to ur friend that u went out with on friday night and i say “no i wont let you talk to him”. Why on gods green earth would she EVER think im innocent? That is EXACTLY what brady and the pats did. He refused to show his phone and the Pats refused to let the investigators bring JM back for a second interview. I prey this goes to trial. It absolutely wont b/c Tom obviously refuses to give up evidence which knows is going to screw not only himself, but Bill and Kraft as well.

  142. The NFLPA (PAYERS ASSOCIATION) ((Union)) ratified the CBA, which is essentially an agreement between the NFL and it’s union/players. to comply with contents.

    Godell’s authority stems from the CBA.

    As was, Tom Terrific’s (all players) consent to comply with all terms and constraints outlined in the CBA. Since I haven’t personally read the CBA, I assume it contains words requiring compliance with investigations, evidence, and legal matters. Probably moral and ethical standards too.

    But for our purposes it a mutually agreed to binding contract.

  143. bullcharger says:
    Jun 30, 2015 1:06 PM

    IF cold weather in NE can deflate one ball up to 2psi and 10 others below the legal limit then this ‘science’ must be exaggerated in colder climates right? So in Green Bay there must be games balls deflated as much as 2.5-3 psi right? And never once has Aaron said “hey this pall is really low”. Every single qb can tell the difference between 12.5 psi and 13 psi. Drew Brees was on a tv show and handed balls and he stated the exact PSI of the balls he was handed. Every qb can tell the difference, but apparently Tom Brady couldnt??? Seems odd. Not to mention balls in Lambeau must be deflating as well and Rodgers has never said anything. They spend months meticulously preparing balls, then when they deflate from .5-2 psi the qb’s just dont notice? Why prepare them if you cant tell the difference? And every game ball is prepared the same exact way- EXACTLY how the qb likes them. They are all the same PSI, regardless of the ‘official reading’. So why did the cold air affect one ball up to 2psi and some only 1.5 psi and other only .5 psi. Wouldnt the temp affect them all the same? Now i can see a ball boy quckly jabbing a needle in a ball deflating them at slightly different amounts, but ‘science’ affects all the balls equally.

  144. @bullcharger – Nobody is advocating that Brady should give Wells free reign over the phone. Wells himself only asked for Brady to turn over deflate-gate related texts. You’re talking out of your backside with this, “Brady was afraid that texts of him cuddling with Giselle would get leaked to TMZ.”

    Look – – the bathroom lawyers here (good one poster above!) think phones are off limits. In reality, they are produced all the time and usually under strict protective orders that make it IMPOSSIBLE for info to get leaked. For instance, Brady could have EASILY said, “no problem. you can have the phone. However, to ensure my privacy, I want us to sign a non-disclosure agreement and I want to be there with my lawyer when you look through it. You can’t copy anything.”

    Brady and his lawyer would have sat on either side of Wells as he scrolled through the texts. Easy peezy.

    Personally, I hope that Brady is completely innocent. As an NFL fan, I admire his accomplishments and his rags to riches story. I’m a Yankee fan and he’s New England’s Derek Jeter. If it were Jeter being suspected for using illegal equipment, I’d hope he’d exonerate himself using whatever means necessary. Otherwise, I’d feel cheated.

    If Brady truly is innocent, if I’m his lawyer….I do WHATEVER is necessary to protect his legacy. If it means disclosing a bunch of non-information on a phone, so be it.

  145. Since I haven’t personally read the CBA, I assume it contains words requiring compliance with investigations, evidence, and legal matters.
    ===
    I have. It doesn’t.

  146. smasonsmith says:
    Jun 30, 2015 2:44 PM

    the CBA doesnt require Tom to give up his phone, but thats just what any innocent man would do. If my employer thought i was cheating and wanted to see my phone id def comply. Its a worse ‘precedent’ for players to not comply with investigations than it is for an innocent guy to have his OWN team look through his phone and hand over any relevant info. At NO point is there any danger of the NFL seeing anything you do not hand over- zero reason not to comply. Basically every person who is in trouble wont comply b/c brady didnt………this is a slippery road. Tom is an employee, he should comply.

  147. ^ Just because it’s not required (and I doubt it says what you claim), doesn’t mean Brady can’t voluntarily comply. I mean….if I was accused of cheating and my legacy of either being the greatest QB of all time vs. being the greatest LIE in American sports was on the line……believe me….nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, will prevent me from voluntarily giving up whatever is required to prove the former!

    I’m innocent. You want my phone….ok. Let’s sit down and go through it ON TAPE so you can’t skew the nothing you’re about to see.

  148. Brady Cheated. The Patriots have cheated in the Past.

    Brady got busted. He did not cooperate fully with the investigation.

    The Punishment levied for all the above reasons is just.

    Tom Brady, and Cheatriot fans,

    Serve your suspension and like it!

  149. justintuckrule says:
    Jun 30, 2015 2:58 PM
    ^ Just because it’s not required (and I doubt it says what you claim), doesn’t mean Brady can’t voluntarily comply. I mean….if I was accused of cheating and my legacy of either being the greatest QB of all time vs. being the greatest LIE in American sports was on the line……believe me….nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, will prevent me from voluntarily giving up whatever is required to prove the former!

    I’m innocent. You want my phone….ok. Let’s sit down and go through it ON TAPE so you can’t skew the nothing you’re about to see.

    ——————

    Maybe if the NFL could show that some balls were actually artificially deflated then there would be some merit to your statements. But since they have not even shown an infraction was committed, what is the point?

  150. the CBA doesnt require Tom to give up his phone, but thats just what any innocent man would do
    ==
    No. That’s what an idiot does. The innocent man sits quietly and waits.

  151. I’m innocent. You want my phone….ok. Let’s sit down and go through it ON TAPE so you can’t skew the nothing you’re about to see.
    ===
    This is all well and good if you trust the investigator. The NFL is a leak machine, and even if you ignore the leaks, their interpretations of the evidence collected from other texts is speculative, at best.

    That’s ignoring the precedent that an NFLPA member allowing that kind of investigation would set. Face it losers: if we have a contract that says that you don’t get to look at my phone when investigating my behavior – you don’t get to get upset when I tell you you can’t look at my phone. All this talk of, “If you’re innocent, you’ll let me have a peek. I won’t tell anyone,” is horse poo. We have a contract setting out our rights and responsibilities. You don’t have the right to look at my phone. Full stop. End of discussion.

  152. justintuckrule says:
    Jun 30, 2015 2:58 PM
    ^ Just because it’s not required (and I doubt it says what you claim), doesn’t mean Brady can’t voluntarily comply. I mean….if I was accused of cheating and my legacy of either being the greatest QB of all time vs. being the greatest LIE in American sports was on the line……believe me….nothing, and I repeat NOTHING, will prevent me from voluntarily giving up whatever is required to prove the former!

    I’m innocent. You want my phone….ok. Let’s sit down and go through it ON TAPE so you can’t skew the nothing you’re about to see.
    __________________________

    You act like Brady has that option to go through it on tape. Wells didn’t include the transcript to a single interview in that entire report, and you think he’s going to allow Brady to release a tape of them going through all of his texts? You’re delusional. Wells doesn’t want those transcripts leaked, just like the league wont publicize the transcripts from the appeal. What a foolish plan, is Brady going to wear a wire? LOL.

    But the funniest part of your comment has to be to notion that such a plan would prevent his information from being skewed. This guy scheduled a press conference. Told his story. And before the Wells report, before any substantiated information was ever known, he was blasted publicly as a liar and a cheat. Even after we learned the original leaks were lies and the Wells report flawed and the footballs weren’t deflated, people still skewer him. The facts wont stop haters from hating. Having audio of Brady and Wells going through his phone wouldn’t stop the masses of haters from spinning his words and personal information into imaginary admissions of guilt. The premise of this idea assumes that people will be open-minded to the idea that Brady could be innocent. We don’t live in that kind of world.

  153. OK, here we go….

    nhpats:

    “Maybe if the NFL could show that some balls were actually artificially deflated then there would be some merit to your statements. But since they have not even shown an infraction was committed, what is the point?”

    All the more reason to show that the league is full of it. That’s the point. For the “haters” as you refer to them…none of them care one iota about the science because they weigh Brady’s stonewalling more. So, if he’s innocent (and for the record…I’ll say it again… I HOPE HE IS!!!), turn over the phone and add the final nail into the NFL’s witch hunt coffin.
    ———–

    smason – you keep equating the phone issue to proving a person guilty of a crime in criminal court. In that case…sure…sit quiet. However, Brady is not on trial in a criminal court. He’s on trial in the court of public opinion who give two poops about constitutional rights. To prove innocence in the court of public opinion, the rules you see on TV go out the window.

    As for your concern about leaks….I’ve already told you, there are plenty of safeguards to prevent the leaks. If Wells refused to videotape the phone disclosure meeting, guess what…that would be the best thing for Brady to hear! Then he can say, “see.” I get the “NFL leak machine” comment but this is different. The NFL can’t leak misrepresentations of what the public can already see on tape. Tape don’t lie. If each text message is logged and taped for the world to see exactly what each says, how exactly can the NFL leak misinformation about them? It can’t. Btw. These procedures happen all the time in litigation. Google “in camera” inspections.

    ————-

    moosey – with all due respect, you watch too much t.v. See comment above. If Wells rejects Brady’s offer to review the texts on ESPN (there’s a good idea!), Wells would look like a j.a.

    Presuming Brady is innocent, I’d tell him to do just that if I’m his lawyer. You want the phone Goodell? Let’s go on NFLN and review them line by line for the world to see. The telecast would be a smash hit for that money grub. Then the texts are out there and nothing can be skewed.

    —–
    Again…I’m rooting for Brady. I just hate the strategy his handlers have given him. They are making him look like a lying cheat. If he has nothing to hide, go on ESPN and make Goodell look dumb. I for one would love that! Unfortunately, I think there’s texts on there that arguably implicate him otherwise he would have volunteered them already.

  154. moosey – with all due respect, you watch too much t.v. See comment above. If Wells rejects Brady’s offer to review the texts on ESPN (there’s a good idea!), Wells would look like a j.a.

    Presuming Brady is innocent, I’d tell him to do just that if I’m his lawyer. You want the phone Goodell? Let’s go on NFLN and review them line by line for the world to see. The telecast would be a smash hit for that money grub. Then the texts are out there and nothing can be skewed.
    _______________
    Are you serious? What sane human being would go on live television and read each of their texts one by one to the entire world? No one would, innocent, guilty, or indifferent (you certainly wouldn’t), and doing that can’t help Brady. His phone could well be empty of evidence, he could read every one of them to the world, and people would still call him guilty. That’s really the simplest way to ruin his personal life.

  155. #freeCharlesmanson!!!
    He did nothing wrong.
    Others killed. He didn’t
    -Pat fans.
    By the way, I wrote a comment yesterday and got more likes than none.
    For those of you who liked comment, I was being sarcastic.
    Lol, Pat fans actually thought I was agreeing.
    Scroll up to read my comment.
    You’ll see I was being sarcastic.
    Only the smart ones noticed.

  156. The reality of the situation is Brady took a stand, he was betting on only getting a fine and he lost. He made the mistake of comparing his situation with Farve’s.

  157. One trying to prove his innocence or refute guilt in the court of public opinion that’s who. And yes, if I were innocent I’d go right on there and make goidell look like a total idiot.

  158. Some of you NE cheater fans are really delusional!!!!!!

    Please answer how a wideout whole seldom handles the ball notices the difference, but Tom Terrific does not? (Maybe the WR is smarter than the QB?)

    And if you completely understand the science governing atmospheric conditions, and how it affects the footballs PSI, then why was only the Cheaters footballs under inflated?

    And finally, how many times have the NE Cheaters been investigated for cheating in one form or another? That number should include; the snow job, the Tom Terrific tuck rule, ineligible receivers, illegal subs, intercom system recording or malfunctions, and spygate. How stupid do you thinks we are?

  159. We thinks you are VERY stupid!

    The “ineligible receivers” of which you speak was a very LEGAL ploy, previously used by no less a juggernaut than the venerable Detroit Lions. The Tuck Rule actually went against the Patriots earlier in 2001…again legal. All of the images recorded during Spygate are still legal to record, just not from the sideline. And…according to science via the AEI Report, all of the Patriots footballs were within LEGAL limits when the scientific Ideal Gas Law is taken into account (The Colts, however, were not).

    Cry “cheater” all you want, but the Patriots will still take the field next year and it is more probable than not that they will destroy your team, fueled by this phony “scandal” undertaken to distract them as they prepared to play for their deserved fourth Super Bowl Championship.

  160. Tuckrule:
    There are no safeguards against leaks beacause – as you have stated – this is not a court (yet). The league can leak whatever it wants whenever it wants with no repercussions. Once this is in an actual court, that changes.

    As for your assertion that Brady is worried about “the court of public opinion,” that is merely your assertion. It is unsupported by anything that we’ve seen. This is a CBA-controlled legal proceeding, and the only thing Brady apparently cares about is playing 16 games next season (plus playoffs). Nothing that he has done so far gives us any reason to think he gives a darn what anybody thinks. He just wants to beat the rap.

    If he’s really worried about his image, he’ll sue the league for defamation later. That could be a very enlightening trial.

  161. One trying to prove his innocence or refute guilt in the court of public opinion that’s who. And yes, if I were innocent I’d go right on there and make goidell look like a total idiot.
    ===
    Or you can sue Goodell/TV/TW/NFL for defamation in an actual court and win actual money. But, yeah… TB is probably worried about the Supreme Court of Public Opinion.

  162. @ bullcharger

    You and I will agree to disagree. And thanks for the “reasonableness” definition. I can promise that I did not need your explanation of what that means from a “legal” perspective.

    If you apply that reasonableness definition in a court, would Mr. Brady’s cell phone and texts records be subpoena’d???

    Don’t bother answering, the world knows that answer is yes. Once the other Patriot employee produced one sided text communication with Tom Brady, the court would have ruled this was a method of communication common to these people and Mr. Brady’s texts would have come in to play.

    You people thinking these records are private are too funny. Ask someone going through a messy divorce if their texts records are private. Facebooks messenger records get called in…believe me. There is no such thing as fully protected or private.

    But we are not in court. We are covered under a CBA decided on and agreed by the two sides. The cooperation level already met by other Patriot employees in this case really has been established, has it not? The league has every right to expect people to cooperate. They even provided unprecedented methods to cooperate. And Brady did not. I think Wells knew Brady would not comply and the whole thing is tactical.

  163. Don’t bother answering, the world knows that answer is yes. Once the other Patriot employee produced one sided text communication with Tom Brady, the court would have ruled this was a method of communication common to these people and Mr. Brady’s texts would have come in to play.
    ===
    Except that we have case law and precedent stating that employers can’t search personal records and phones. This isn’t a divorce – which is covered by family law. It’s labor and contract law. Were this a trial and the league requested a subpoena, they would have to justify it to a judge. The counterargument would be, “You already have the phones of JJ, JM, BB, RK, including all of their messages to/from TB. You don’t need TB’s phone.” A judge would ask the league, “What is it you’re looking for in excess of what you already have?” The league wouldn’t have an answer – because there is nothing more to find, and their request would be denied.

    As for your assertion that other employees established a level of cooperation? Laughable, as it ignores the differences between Brady and the clubbies. Unlike Brady, they’re not covered by the CBA. Players are a different class from Club Employees and Players are covered by the CBA whereas Club Employees are not. Additionally, their phones were either club-owned or club-paid-for. These two factors put them in a different category as far as their duty to provide them to the league/employer when requested. By the way: This is why many people carry two phones. One phone is for work. The other is personal.

  164. smasonsmith says:
    Jul 1, 2015 4:31 PM

    Dude how can you still be so ignorant? #1 they didnt have BB or RK phone. Period. Not at all. So you make zero sense. And #2 the phones from JJ and JM were company phones. If they found some stuff on those how much more stuff could be found on personal phones???? You have to be a complete fool not to think that most communication about this matter would be on personal phones or emails. If i was doing something wrong at work i wouldnt talk about it through WORK EMAIL, id send personal messages from my personal device. Do you think my work would be like “well we checked ur work email and didnt find much so your all set”. Ofcourse they’d want to see my personal phone- where ALL the evidence is.

  165. the CBA covered tom’s behind by not forcing him to hand over his phone, so dont complain about the league rules of just needing “more probable than not” decision in order to make a ruling. You cant be allowed to refuse to cooperate and then ask that they have 100% definitive proof that your guilty. Either you have to comply 100% and the league needs definitive proof, or you can decide not to hand over your phone and the league doesnt need a smoking gunn, just evidence that shows more probable than not that your guilty. You pats fans want your cake and to eat it too, its quite funny to watch you talk and cry like 5 yr olds with your nonsense justifications about all the evidence against brady. As of right now 31 team fans, the Commissioner and a multi million dollar, unbiased investigation all thinks brady is guilty. But the slack jawed losers in New England know more than everyone else in the US. Sounds like a typical Boston fan.

  166. “If Brady truly is innocent, if I’m his lawyer….I do WHATEVER is necessary to protect his legacy. If it means disclosing a bunch of non-information on a phone, so be it.”

    You would never get through law school with that attitude.

    No lawyer worth his salt would tell his client to give up any private records without a warrant or court order – to anybody.

  167. Letsgobuffalo

    Since you love to talk about all this evidence that shows guilt by Brady, can you explain the texts from October 17th where JJ states the balls should be 13 psi? How does that compare with your belief that the Patriots have a scheme to deflate footballs? Elaborate as much as you can please.

  168. Buffalo:
    The CBA establishes both that a player need not give up his phone because that is beyond reasonable cooperation and that any league proceeding will be adjudicated on the “perponderance of the evidence” standard. That’s the truth. Both of those are in the CBA. It’s my contention that the evidence provided fails to meet even that standard. Can you truthfully say that it is more probable than not that post-measurement air-bleeding occurred? You can’t, and neither can the league. Almsot everything else in TWR collapses once that disappears.

    The only thing that’s left is TB’s refusal to give up his phone records, but as we’ve established already, that’s well within his right as a union member. Given precedent: that is only worthy of a fine. No one (including Favre and Gostowski) has ever been suspended from the NFL for not surrendering a phone to the League Office.

    I ask you this: what is TB currently suspended for? Is it solely because he didn’t give up his phone? Is it because the NFL believes he ordered the deflation? Is it a combination?

    Any portion of the suspension directly attributable to deflation (or ordering it) is clearly unwarranted due to the fact that it is more probable than not that NO DEFLATION OCCURRED. Any portion of the suspension attributable to the “cover up” is unwarranted, capricious, and arbitrary, as noted above, when viewed in light of precedent.

    What’s left, smooth brain?

  169. 1 they didnt have BB or RK phone. Period. Not at all. So you make zero sense. And #2 the phones from JJ and JM were company phones.
    ===
    Yes. They were company phones from non-union employees. That’s why Wells had access to them. Do you know who else probably has a company phone and is non-union? RK and BB. Do you think that it’s possible that RK and BB’s phone had nothing interesting on them? Remember: just because TWR doesn’t mention it, doesn’t mean Wells didn’t have access to it. The fact that he CLEARED RK and BB means he probably had their phones and found no there there.

    All that aside: Wells still doesn’t get access to a Union Member’s personal phone. Per CBA that’s off-limits, and any suspension given to a Union Member for failure to comply with that request is capricious and arbitrary given precedent.

    I ask again: why exactly is TB suspended? Break it down by game.

  170. Seeing as the Wells Report inadvertently provided scientific proof that the footballs WEREN’T DEFLATED, why is Brady expected to give them anything?

    Wells and Goodell need to be introduced to the concept that you can’t disprove a negative

    Nothing happened – my phone is as relevant as Brady’s

  171. Googled the NFL’s CBA. Between a perusal of what appears to be relevant categories, and specific word searches I find no direct or indirect language stating the players do not have to surrender their personal cell phones. Nothing.

    I am capable of making a mistake or missing this. But my guess is our commenter with so much specific knowledge of the CBA might be inferring parts that aren’t there.

  172. After months of all kinds of scientists and experts looking at data and teaching us about gas laws, it’s still a bit unclear how much exactly the cold weather would’ve effected the footballs. Yet somehow some random ballboy knew exactly what PSI Brady liked his footballs and calculated exactly how much the weather is going to effect the balls and figured out exactly that he needs to deflate them 0.4 of a PSI… nonsense!
    How about this, if ball pressure is so important, the refs should have factored in weather conditions instead of who knows how many games were played with deflated footballs!
    How about this, lets measure footballs next season properly at the start, halftime and end of every game. Show everyone the data and then everyone can open their big mouths…

  173. “I find no direct or indirect language stating the players do not have to surrender their personal cell phones. Nothing.”

    Given that the police don’t have any right to demand cell phone records without a subpoena, it seems very unlikely to me that one could construe the CBA to include such a right for the commissioner’s office. Ordinarily, employers don’t have the right to make such a demand.

    The commenter above probably overstated the case when he said that the CBA specifically guaranteed this right for players. My guess is that the CBA is silent on the issue, but the commissioner wants the power, and that’s the primary reason he’s pushing this issue so hard with Brady.

    Indeed, the NFL recently put out an ad looking for somebody to be a full-time employee in charge of “digital forensic issues” which sounds a lot like phone records, though I suppose email records would also be covered.

    Personally I wish the NFL would try to keep this issue in perspective. Of course, that ship sailed nearly six months ago. Why they refuse to admit they have no evidence of football tampering is beyond me.

  174. Asking for his phone is just like asking him if you can look up his wife’s dress, it’s not going to happen. He wasn’t perfect in the SB but he was clutch in the 4th quarter, 2 fantastic drives down the field for TD’s and that’s why they won. Love him or hate him he’s a winner and that’s the bottom line.

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