If Brady’s penalties are reduced, should the Patriots’ be, too?

AP

As the NFL closes in on a potential reduction in the four-game suspension previously imposed on Patriots quarterback Tom Brady, a question looms regarding the possible dichotomy between the outcome for the player and the outcome for the team.

If Commissioner Roger Goodell reduces Brady’s suspension, should the penalties previously imposed on the Patriots also be reduced?

Peter King of TheMMQB.com made the case on Thursday’s edition of The Dan Patrick Show for the team getting a reduction if the player does. While it makes sense on the surface, there’s one past case that it will be important to recall if Brady’s suspension is modified or eliminated: The Saints’ bounty scandal.

As a result of the NFL’s internal appeal procedures, the New Orleans player suspensions were all completely overturned in 2012. That outcome, however, had no impact on the penalties levied against the Saints or on the one-year suspensions imposed on Saints coach Sean Payton and former Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams.

In this case, the Patriots opted not to appeal the $1 million fine or the loss of a first-round pick in 2016 and a fourth-round pick in 2017. As far as the NFL is concerned, those cases are closed.

There’s another reason for reopening the current case against the Patriots. As previously explained, the NFL has an opportunity to gather significant data regarding the behavior of air pressure in footballs before making any final decisions regarding whether the Patriots tampered with the footballs prior to the AFC title game — or whether the measurements reflect the natural operation of the Ideal Gas Law.

With the draft-pick forfeiture not starting until April 2016, why not table any final decisions until after the 2015 season has ended, giving the NFL a chance to compare the Patriots’ 11 footballs from January 18 to a lot more than the four Colts’ footballs that hurriedly were tested that day? By making halftime and postgame air-pressure measurements of every football every in every NFL preseason, regular season, and postseason game, a much more reliable final conclusion could be reached in February, including a possible conclusion that the measurements are inconclusive to determine that tampering occurred.

300 responses to “If Brady’s penalties are reduced, should the Patriots’ be, too?

  1. Nope. When Tagliabue reinstated every single Saints player because he found not a shred of substantiating evidence, the Saints’ penalties ($ and draft picks) were not reduced. Now, that said, Sean Payton got a year and Belichek not one game so…who the hell knows what’ll happen.

  2. Goodell would be wise to table all sanctions until a full set of data becomes available from testing footballs during the 2016 season.

    Now, obviously Goodell is not a wise person so he will not do that. Instead he will continue to look like a complete buffoon.

  3. If Kraft had a position from which to defend himself, then he should have then….not if Brady gets a break (which he shouldn’t). How quickly we are to forget this franchise has a history.

  4. So hard to say, they didn’t for the Saints, but Peter King has a point. To be honest, I think Brady is going to play all 16 games, and I hope he does…..as far as the other stuff, I don’t really care, it’s not my team, I’m just ready for football and for all this nonsense to be over. I’m sure Patriot fans feel the same way. Camp opens up in less than two weeks boys!!!

  5. brady has been banging the teams in the league….he will soon be done with the league itself…..dude is a stud

  6. NO!!! the by GOD patsies the darlings of the NFL have been CHEATERS for years now!!! take the punishment!!! But Goodell will reduce Bradys sentance to stay in the good graces of Kraft!!!

  7. Sweep that Den & Dallas collision under the rug. How is it that both WR’s got identical contracts literally moments apart and Goodell doesn’t care??

  8. The Patriots shouldnt have any penalties. They were found of no wrong doing. Brady was found that he “may” have done something.

    Take away his suspension. Give back draft picks, donate 1 million to charity.

    Unless he did something wrong, then he should be FINED. As that was the penalty for this for everyone else. So change the rule now if its that big of a deal. The Patriots still shouldn’t lose picks and fines over this to begin it.

    Seriously wtf is Goodell doing?

  9. And admit that the almighty NFL wasted 5 million bucks on a sham “instigation”???

    I dont think so…

    The world is flat, witches float, and PV= nRT is sorcery

    ANYONE who says otherwise is a heretic …

  10. The question is not “if” Brady’s penalties are reduced”, the only question is “when”? Tom Brady will not be suspended because there is an obvious lack of evidence linking him to the alleged actions. In a way I yearn for Brady to take it to a Federal Court, because that would probably help to speed up Goodell’s exit

  11. Good idea in theory but the process for gathering data on the AFC Championship balls was so flawed and ignorant how could they accurately be compared to data accumulated in a professional manner. I still think you are right about doing the research and determining the effects of mother nature on the game for future reference but I am not sure how reliable that data could be applied retroactively.

  12. I don’t know how the appeal process works in the NFL but in a lot of civil cases once you choose not to appeal a ruling, the ruling becomes binding.

    But PFT and most commentors on this site have had problems distinguishing between civil and criminal law…

  13. Hell no. The idea that Brady’s suspension will be reduced is offensive. It was far too light to begin with. He should have been suspended for the entire season. Players have faced that penalty for off-the-field stuff that doesn’t affect the integrity of the game, so surely someone breaking the rules to get a competitive advantage in a playoff game deserves a full year too.

  14. Given the 4 game suspension for maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, what would the NFL have done if they determined he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt……. Shot him?

  15. …giving the NFL a chance to compare the Patriots’ 11 footballs from January 18 to a lot more than the four…

    That would make sense. Let’s review: 1) The NFL League HQ, 2) Sense. Not compatible.

  16. I hate that this is still a thing!!! I mean, DAMN, it’s underinflated footballs.

    I don’t want to hear about science or legacies or intent or anything! We all know how this will end. Rational people will review the case outside of anything influenced by the NFL and determine that it’s way over stepping it bounds….LIKE ALWAYS!

    I’m so tired of this!

  17. I can see the comments now…. look, if you think the Patriots got hosed from the beginning (my camp) of course you think taking away a 1st and 4th is outrageous.
    If you hate the Patriots and are enjoying this charade, than even the suggestion of reducing their penalty will inspire righteous indignation.
    Well done Roger….

  18. Doesn’t matter how much the NFL case is discredited… there is a desire to “get” the Patriots which has been made all too clear… Kraft should have fought them in court just like Brady is very likely to do. That’s the only place they can receive justice… instead of going before NFL Kangaroo court and public lynch mobs.

  19. The NFL testing of footballs over the course of the NFL season will never happen. It makes too much sense and it might show that the Patriots were actually innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt. You know that the NFL HQ infested with former Jets employees will never allow that to happen.

  20. Won’t happen.

    Goodell knows that if there’s one thing most all NFL fans hate more than him its the Patriots.

    That decision and every other deflategate decision he’s made had nothing to do with anything other than trying to save his own ass by getting the people who were slamming him for his ineptitude back on his side.

    Goodell knows nothing unites NFL fans like a good old bit of Parriots bashing.

    Notice how all the talk show jocks that were ripping him to shreds prior to the AFCCG were all applauding him when he bought the hammer down on the Pats.

  21. The NFL isn’t interested in the truth.They have their agenda and will not budge despite the Wells report being outed as a total sham.
    Full exoneration for Brady.Anything less is unacceptable.

  22. No, because Kraft already threw up the white flag and accepted his punishment.

    He knew they did wrong and took it like a Man should when he gets caught.

  23. Brady challenged his penalties, Robert Kraft accepted the team penalties without a fight.

    I can’t see the NFL voluntarily reducing a penalty out of the goodness of their heart, seeing as how they drag their heels and have to be sued in federal court to reduce suspensions that are handed out that well over reach their authority. If Kraft didn’t even ask for an arbitrator, which I still think is a quid pro quo for having Brady’s suspension lessened or dropped, then I have to imagine Rog is cashing that check and calling it a day.

  24. When do they pass out penalties for the Game Ops Staff? How does Kensil not get punished for this? Can someone explain this?

  25. When do they pass out penalties for the Game Ops Staff? How does Kensil not get punished for this? Can someone explain this?

  26. Absolutely!!! All penalties are invalid except a potential fine amount.

    The science has proven there was no deflation below legal limits. Therefore there was no crime to penalize.

    At most, there was manipulation of balls after inspection (to insure the balls were at preferred lower end of legal limits – not 16 psi baloons as in the Jets game). This is a fine only offense – no integrity of the game or conduct unbecoming involved.

    I think this is the most likely thing. Brady went balistic on the equipment guys after the Jets game (note Deflator’s F Tom attitude in his texts). If there was any direction from Brady it was “make sure the balls are at or near 12.5.” How this was done was likely the equipment guys doing.

    When Spygate happend Belichick and Kraft stood up to it with no denials. (explanation of wording in the rules about not using film to gain advantage in the current game was the only point BB make as explanation). With the surprise, denials, and demands for apology from the league response from the Patriots in the beginning of this whole ordeal – a complete 180 from the Pat’s response to Spygate – it is obvious that deflategate is a totally different story. The punishments do not fit the crime, and the crime was never comitted in the first place.

    Only remaining question about any crime is whether the false conclusions and obviously anti Patriots biased Wells report were innocent or intentional.

  27. Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.

  28. “I didn’t know about the deflating. Here are my phone records to prove it.”

    Wait…did this happen yet? No – no, it didn’t.

  29. I’m a patriots fan and don’t think they should be reduced mainly to give the rest of the league an opportunity to catch up with the greatest QB-HC duo in the history of the game.

    In fact, the league should just take away all of the patriots first round picks until those 2 retire to make it fair.

    My two cents..

  30. You can’t reduce penalties to the franchise, only players. NE will have to pay that find and forfeit the draft picks no matter what.

  31. Reduced? Absolutely not!! They should be completely eliminated ! There was no crime here, unless you count that Wells report.

  32. Both penalties should be upheld. The NFL is not a court and does not need to prove with 100% certainty that something was done. There is enough evidence that something unethical happened here despite looking for every possible alternative explanation by Pat’s fans. The lack of cooperation by both the team and Tom Brady compounds it. Also keep in mind that the Patriots are repeat offenders.

    What no Patriot fan can provide is a reason why the NFL would intentionally target and try to bring down the premier league and QB in the league. This is bad for the sport. Oh, right Kensil worked for the Jets. . .yes, he must have mastermind this. Just silly.

    You can begin tearing my statement apart in 3…2..1. Go!

  33. all biasness aside, the patriots accepted their punishment. I dont think brady’s ruling has anything to do with them at this point. They cant sit back and say “oh now that Tom won appeal we want to fight this”. For tom’s lawyer being so worried about ‘setting a precedent’ the patriots and Tom are doing just that- the precedent that withholding evidence is completely ok and that you can appeal after agreeing to the penalties levied.

  34. At this point, whatever it takes to shut up all the whiny Patriots* fans. If it will get all these crybabies from posting about their team on other posts than do it. Enough with the most annoying fans in football and their complaining, it really needs to stop.

  35. Of course they should be reduced and ideally eliminated. By now everybody except the most ardent Patriots haters have come to the logical conclusion that there was no wrongdoing WHATSOEVER by the Pats, so if Bradys suspension is reduced or eliminated, it indicates that Goodell KNOWS that the Wells report is toilet paper, and if THAT’S the case, then consequently ALL punishment against the Patriots has to be eliminated. The “ideal gas law” must haunt Roger in his dreams. As Florio pointed out in a previous post, this situation (which Goodell created himself) is a lose/lose for him. Hey Roger, if you’re in a ten foot deep hole, QUIT DIGGING! He can either rescind all punishment against Brady and the Pats and take his lumps like a man now or have his ass handed to him in court (again!) by Brady. Your move Roger.

  36. The last I checked, guilty parties received reduced sentences via demonstrating long term good behavior. Given that the only game played by the guilty parties since the infractions was a direct reward benefit of the guilty behavior (cheating = Super Bowl), any discussion of reducing penalties for those who still snub thier nose at those fighting for fairness with indignant disrespect and perpetuated lies seems as rediculous as the actual act of cheating itself. In effect, it cheats those that play fair of justice!

  37. I’m so tired of this.

    This has made the league and Goodell look ridiculous.

    A total waste of time and money.

    The Pats actually look better and the league looks worse.

  38. “… conclusion that the measurements are inconclusive to determine that tampering occurred.”

    End of story.

  39. There was a report the other day from Ashley Fox on ESPN that Troy Vincent actually consulted with Goodell on the Brady penalty and Goodell absolutely did have a say on it.

    I’m surprised nobody picked up on that…. because if true that sure sounds to me like a legal smoking gun that can be used in court to immediately get a ruling that Goodell has no standing to be the arbitrator and then Brady’s suspension will be thrown out.

    Just par for the course for a guy who is a job that is over his head.

    What say you Florio?

  40. Yes of course.
    Why should the player benefit from a reduced penalty and team not?

    Yet again, the employee gets away with an infraction, the employer is penalized, the employee (due to union representation and a union-bought NLRB and Presidential administration), will get a reduced penalty. However the employer, who had nothing to do with the infraction, has NO REPRESENTATION or protection from actions of the player himself in order to reduce their penalty, and the employer (Patriots) get screwed AGAIN.

    Where is the logic in this? If a player screws up, hammer him with severe penalties, then hold him up as an example of what not to do so that other players won’t do the same thing.

    I am shocked that ANY media personality dares to go against the grain and fight for justice for NFL teams or the NFL itself, ESPECIALLY when the injustice was caused by a union-protected player.

  41. The Patriots penalties were WAY over blown!! I think Tom Brady should have to fight in court (like he will, and win, like he will) to get his suspension thrown out. But at that point, yes, time to peel back some of the craziness that you hit the organization with – good grief that was too much. This coming from a Cowboys fan.

  42. Testing is only pertinent if you test under the same conditions. Any change in condition (temp, humidity, wait time, moisture content (rain) will make the attempt to equate last Jan. with any of these tests. They need to hire an independent lab to do the testing in controlled environments. But that would assume the NFL wants to get it right.

  43. reduced? I think they got off easy, They get to keep a super bowl win with cheating. Only in the NFL does cheating pay off.

  44. Seriously, the season can not come soon enough

    Can’t wait to be reading about training camp position battles instead of another 40 stories about slightly deflated footballs or which 25 yr old millionaire made an idiotic statement on twitter

  45. How does Brady (and his union buddies) not look bad and yet again, the perception is that somehow the NFL itself has screwed up?

    This is how this should go:
    Player A screws up and makes the employer look bad publicly.
    Employer suspends the player without pay for 1 season. They also announce this publicly so that the player is made an example of.
    The employer is praised in the media for not tolerating the foolish actions of players and sending a message to future players.
    The union files an appeal and is denied.

    Boom. Done.

  46. “cajunaise says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:29 PM
    “I didn’t know about the deflating. Here are my phone records to prove it.”

    Wait…did this happen yet? No – no, it didn’t.”


    How would his phone records prove he didn’t do it. If he turned over his phone and there was no smoking gun there, you and others would just claim he did it verbally. He’s too smart to text about it, or he deleted texts, etc. There is NOTHING to be gained by Brady for turning over his texts to this den of jacals

  47. The only people who think the patriots did anything wrong at this point are idiots. Unfortunately, there are lots of them and they all seem to hate the Pats

  48. Yes there is no evidence the balls were deflated, let alone intentionally so.

    The mean psi of the 24 balls was 11.3 and the expected psi according to Wells Report was 11.4. 0.1 psi lower than expected is not evidence of wrong doing its measurement error.

    By far the most probable explanation is NOT wrongdoing.

  49. You people are fools.

    You seem to be all on board with having the tail (the players and their idiotic union) wag the dog (the NFL and their franchises).

    I’m am 100% sure that there are few, if any, business majors amongst the NFL players. Therefore they have no concept of basic business principles and operations. The vast majority of them majored in basket weaving or African-American culture.

    When the power is shifted to the employees and away from the employers, death of the business is soon to follow. This is because so many of these “genius” players come from “disadvantaged” backgrounds and squander their own money, once they get their greedy hands into the NFL’s coffers, they will squander that too. Then all the former players will work in their local fast food restaurants and wonder what happened.

  50. How dare you, Mr. Florio! You have the audacity to bring logic, reason, and objectivity to this discussion? The very idea!

  51. If the NFL had a shred of integrity, or an honest desire to figure out what happens to NFL footballs over the course of a game, they would measure the balls before the game, at halftime, and after the game in a wide variety of weather situations this upcoming season, then release those results publicly.

    But they’re terrified it will reveal NE’s balls really just weren’t out of range from the norm.

  52. I think even the most hard core hater now thinks that maybe – just maybe – the balls were never actually deflated by anyone. The most damning evidence against the Patriots was a ball attendant referring to himself as the deflator. And that one text was actually 8 months before the Colts game.

  53. If it really is a good idea to defer the Patriots’ penalties for a year while thousand and thousands of air-pressure measurements are taken, then it is also a good idea to defer any penalty on Tom Brady for the next year. If he were suspended, and the data collected over the next year shows there was no tampering, then what? Go back and replay those game?!

    More to the point, it doesn’t require a years worth of measurements to see that there already is no conclusive evidence of tampering. While Exponent (which has earned a reputation for delivering the desired results) concluded it is more probable than not that there was tampering, The American Enterprise Institute, HeadSmart Labs, Science News, Nobel Laureate Roderick MacKinnon, Physicist Dr. Drew Fustin, and many others using the same data reached the opposite conclusion. Add to this the fact that there were no reliable pregame measurements at the AFCCG, and it quickly becomes obvious that at this point in time it would be impossible to reach any reliable conclusion about what happened last January.

    It’s time for the NFL to admit that they blew it, that nothing conclusive exists, and no one can go back in time and accurately fix the mistakes made last January.

  54. This is a case of the NFL trying to catch the Patriots in the act of the crime. How else do you explain waiting until halftime of a championship game to do so? The NFL screwed up by going about it hap hazard. Starting from not writing down the starting pressures, letting the balls walk past everyone on the way out the door, by not having a procedure in place to test them, by not recording the gauge used to test them all the way up to the leaking of incorrect information about the ball pressures. The NFL was not prepared for the this spiraled out of control and blew up across the country. They were not able to handle the rapid burn of it and just kept digging themselves in deeper and deeper until they were ultimately forced to “find” guilt to satisfy the thirst of the mob of Patriot haters. In the end the “integrity” of the league will be tarnished more by it’s own acts than what obviously didn’t happen to a dozen footballs.

  55. If this was about the truth and “getting it right”, then yes they should waive all penalties. Unfortunately the NFL has become a PR manipulation train that’s gone off the tracks. Notice the amount of articles and comments about the patriots and air pressure? This fiasco has grabbed all the attention, and the public responded predictably. As long as 90% of the population “feel” a certain way, then to hell with the truth. The NFL thinks you’re a sucker, and the sad part is, with a small amount of exceptions, they’re probably right. But hey, when there’s so much income, and the competition begins to trickle off of the field, should be surprised when the front office starts behaving like a fascist government? Or are the majority of us to ignorant to notice/care?

  56. billswillnevermove says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:13 PM
    So hard to say, they didn’t for the Saints, but Peter King has a point. To be honest, I think Brady is going to play all 16 games…

    ———————————————

    I think you mean Brady will play all 19 games.

  57. cajunaise says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:29 PM

    “I didn’t know about the deflating. Here are my phone records to prove it.”

    Wait…did this happen yet? No – no, it didn’t.
    __________________________
    If anyone would look up the definition of a non sequitur, they would find this comment. How do his phone records prove he didn’t do something? That’s like me saying, “I didn’t eat an orange today and I’ll prove it by letting you look through my phone.” If you don’t find a photo of me eating an orange, does that mean I didn’t eat one? Of course not. Comments like yours are easily the least educated. The phone means absolutely positively nothing if the footballs aren’t below their expected levels of inflation. Were they below that level? NO. So does the phone have any bearing on the investigation? NO

  58. They don’t have the actual temperatures from the AFCCG nor the baseline pre-game psi data. So, they need a time machine to go back and do this the right way. 20 years worth of future psi measurements won’t change this. Also, I don’t like this suggestion, as it gives the NFL a pass for how they’ve behaved for the past 7 months now. It’s a complete disgrace.

  59. canedaddy says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:19 PM
    Hell no. The idea that Brady’s suspension will be reduced is offensive. It was far too light to begin with. He should have been suspended for the entire season. Players have faced that penalty for off-the-field stuff that doesn’t affect the integrity of the game, so surely someone breaking the rules to get a competitive advantage in a playoff game deserves a full year too.

    —————-

    You might have a point if there was any legitimate factual evidence that:
    1) Footballs were actually deflated
    2) They were deflated in attempt to impact to “integrity of the game”
    3) Brady ordered the deflation

    Thus far 0 of 3 have been proven. It’s tantamount to convicting a guy for murder when nobody was killed.

  60. 12coltsfan12 says:

    Whole thing is a sham. No air was missing from the balls, case closed, period.
    ———————————————————-
    Yes, there was no evidence the Deflatriots balls were deflated, except for the fact that they were, you know, measured and were deflated.

  61. Doesn’t matter if Brady’s penalties get reduced unless it is zero games. Brady did nothing wrong and will not accept any penalty and why should he?

    Funny I haven’t seen what has been reported that Roger Goodell asked Brady’s team if he were to reduce the penalty , would they agree to not take this to federal court.

    Keep up the argument about deflator texts etc, you are only regurgitating the nonsense you read on the internet.

    Most Patriot fans are hoping this ends up in federal court and Roger Goodell and the NFL lose again .

    More probably than not,that is a good reason to try to destroy a legends reputation.

    And for the haters that don’t want to read Pats fans responses, stay off the thread which ALWAYS gets the most responses.

    Probably because most of your teams just are not relevant.

    Free Brady

    I would say No Brady/No Banner but TB will be under center September 10th

  62. Neither should be reduced. If Goodell does that then he makes perception reality by giving another example of his bias towards Kraft.
    This was a well thought out cheating scheme, the ideal gas laws is the perfect out for a plausible deniability defense. The problem is the circumstances and Pats noncooperation make them appear very guilty.
    You see… Sometimes when law enforcement has no leads they interview persons of interest, and sometimes based on the behavior of the interviewed person police can make certain assumptions. Same thing here.

  63. I would say that the team penalties should be reduced, but given the fact that Robert Kraft completely wimped out and didn’t appeal it. No way. And I like the Pats.

    He let down his whole fan base.

    Maybe change us, give the draft picks back and take more money from Krafty Bob!

  64. As a fan of Patriots players, no, they shouldn’t, but this is because I feel the Patriots, and any team, are for the shield. Not for the players. So I could care less about the teams anymore. I support the players.

  65. 12coltsfan12 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:27 PM

    Whole thing is a sham. No air was missing from the balls, case closed, period.

    -colts fan
    ——————-
    Sweetpea, you’re still at it, eh?
    You are a sham….just like your team*, the Patsies*.
    Pretending to be something you’re not.
    LONG LIVE THE *!

  66. bastageman says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:34 PM

    At this point, whatever it takes to shut up all the whiny Patriots* fans. If it will get all these crybabies from posting about their team on other posts than do it. Enough with the most annoying fans in football and their complaining, it really needs to stop.

    ———

    listen, for months Patriots fans endured the mass hysteria that resulted from Mort’s 11 of 12 footballs story which the NFL knew was wrong, but let fester like an infected boil oozing pus.

    Us Patriots fans come here to defend our team because we’re proud of our team…..and yeah, sometimes when there’s an opportunity to get a little payback in the trash talk department, we take advantage of it, just like the multitudes of brainwashed haters did for months.

  67. babygaga19 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:45 PM

    When this little tete-a-tete is over, what will you guys spend your life on worrying about?
    —————————————————————–
    You already know what Patriots fan will be doing, comparing every allegation in football to deflategate, in order to justify what their favorite organization.

    Every. single. story.

  68. The point the people are missing is the fact that the majority of the penalty for Brady is NOT that he tampered with the ball, it’s that he refused to fully cooperate with the investigation, including handing over relevant texts and phone records, which is spelled out in the CBA as required if requested. If he actually even partially complied recently at the hearing, then there will be a reduction in his penalties. I have no idea what will happen to the Pats sanctions.

  69. He either did this or he didnt, no one knows for sure. What we do know is that we dont have all the evidence- Tom’s phone. So we can either A) just assume there is nothing on it and let him off the hook, or B) keep the penalties and let Tom take this to court if he’s innocent, in which case he’ll be exonerated and he wins. But what i know, is that id much rather take this to court and get ALL evidence before dropping everything. Seems a bit ridiculous for Brady to be like “i wont give u the biggest piece of evidence, i will not cooperate with this investigation, BUT lets just use the honor system and believe me when i say im innocent”. Saying the phone isnt a big deal is the most absurd thing ive ever heard. This is a big deal, ALL pieces of evidence need to be viewed. Imagine if Hernandez could have just said “you guys cant check my house, but trust me im innocent” lol. I know what tom didnt doesnt compare to Aaron, but same principle.

  70. There’s no way that the league will dare do a comprehensive study about football air pressure in real situations.
    It would make them look even dumber for their overreaching in penalizing the team when they discover that PSI drop in January is right in range with the Patriot’s footballs in the afccg.
    Deep down, I think they know that, too.

    Roger will keep it at 4 games because he knows it’s going to court anyway.
    He’s pandering to 31 owners and their fan bases.
    Fairness is not in the equation.

  71. Nobody takes the Bologna stuffing Peter King seriously but New England stooges. He’s a laughing stock to the rest of the country. Probably said that after walking Brady’s dogs. Peter King……lmao

  72. From day one this was nothing more than a possible equipment violation. There should of never been a multi million dollar investigation and maybe just a fine or warning. Then the league should of tightened up it’s ball handling procedures and that should of been the end of it. Instead Goodell’s lackey’s some who seem to have it out for the Pats made it a historical mountain out of a molehill.

  73. dryzzt23 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:47 PM
    You people are fools.

    You seem to be all on board with having the tail (the players and their idiotic union) wag the dog (the NFL and their franchises).

    I’m am 100% sure that there are few, if any, business majors amongst the NFL players. Therefore they have no concept of basic business principles and operations. The vast majority of them majored in basket weaving or African-American culture.

    When the power is shifted to the employees and away from the employers, death of the business is soon to follow. This is because so many of these “genius” players come from “disadvantaged” backgrounds and squander their own money, once they get their greedy hands into the NFL’s coffers, they will squander that too. Then all the former players will work in their local fast food restaurants and wonder what happened.

    ————————–

    And what happens when the power is ceded to a single out-of-control maniacal dictator? I’d say it is time for a coup.

  74. Let it be already. The thrashing they will suffer at home week 1 will be embarrassment enough.

  75. moosey7195 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:55 PM

    Your statement is the truly ignorant one. #1 there was rumors of them delfating balls, #2 however flawed it may have been, they found the balls to be deflated (quite a coincidence seeing as how another team JUST suggested they do this), #3 if it was weather then in Green Bay we’d see this issue ALL THE TIME but we never have. #4 Tom’s phone cant prove innocent since if he didnt do it there would be no talks about it on the phone, but hiding something ALWAYS signifies guilt. If my g/f thinks im cheating and asks to see my phone, i show her and she finds nothing then no it doesnt prove i didnt cheat, but if im open then it is MUCH more likely that im being honest. If i refuse to show my phone………well then im guilty. If you think ur g/f is cheating and ask to see her phone and she refuses, then lets see u accept the whole “showing u my phone sets a precedent, so im not showing u out of principle, not b/c im guilty!” nonsense.

  76. Supporters of this cheating organization (fans, Brady’s Agent & Lawyers and the media propoganda machine being paid for thier support) keep trying to suggest that 100% “Beyond a Reasonable Doubt” proof is required here. Just to reiterate reality, “More likely than not” (51% likelyhood) is the standard applied to non-criminal liability cases. The argument about gas psi vs temp ratios could be a 50/50 toss if other things are ignored. But JJ’s & JM’s texts without question tip the scales HEAVILY toward guilt for both player annd organization. The standard has been MORE THAN met and far exceeded. No, neither Bradicheat or the Patricheats deserve any concession. In fact, they are all getting off too lightly!

  77. I didn’t have anything to do with deflating footballs. Don’t believe me? Here’s my cell.

  78. etsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:03 PM
    He either did this or he didnt, no one knows for sure. What we do know is that we dont have all the evidence- Tom’s phone. So we can either A) just assume there is nothing on it and let him off the hook, or B) keep the penalties and let Tom take this to court if he’s innocent, in which case he’ll be exonerated and he wins. But what i know, is that id much rather take this to court and get ALL evidence before dropping everything. Seems a bit ridiculous for Brady to be like “i wont give u the biggest piece of evidence, i will not cooperate with this investigation,

    ———————
    I don’t understand why you guys believe Brady’s phone is a key. Do you think he has an app on his phone that he used to deflate the footballs remotely?

    If you are looking for texts or email between him and the two lunkheads, you have them all on the two lunkheads’ phones. Moreover, the stuff that may be relevant is long since deleted and written over….

  79. Wonder if Goodell will budget in about $5million for every home game in Foxboro the past several seasons and see if Beavis and Butthead have possibly been deflating balls for awhile. With his idiotic Thursday night schedule ( it’s 2015 Roger- Why does anyone play on three days rest -EVER! make occasional Thursday games always two teams that just had a bye you knucklehead) and games in London (cha-Ching!$$$)he could pay for some more shoddy reports.
    Pats nation I don’t think you need to get your panties in a bunch over this too much longer. NFL and Roger have messed this one up.
    But it has been for an entertaining offseason. Football 24/7/365 how Roger likes it. And NBC must have a record numbers of comments for an offseason thanks to all of this.
    My first take back in January was that Colts would lose draft picks. After Wells Report the message board entertainment spiked about five-fold.Now unless the ballboys sing in Rogers favor, which I don’t expect, I agree that money is no object to him and Brady will come out looking more like Jeter than ARod. But if Brady ever is in streetclothes for a game the next time he, Kraft, or Belichik are around Goodell it would be pay per view worthy.

  80. losersneedexcuses says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:22 PM

    Doesn’t matter how much the NFL case is discredited… there is a desire to “get” the Patriots which has been made all too clear… Kraft should have fought them in court just like Brady is very likely to do. That’s the only place they can receive justice… instead of going before NFL Kangaroo court and public lynch mobs.
    —————
    Here’s a thought………
    Quit cheating and nobody would be out to “get you”.

  81. We should get our draft picks back; but, Robert Kraft practically threw his money at Goodell — since cozying up to Roger and his billionaire cohorts is more important toKraft than PatriotNation, they should keep his money.

  82. A few facts for Patriot Hater and their team. 🙂

    We are better than you.

    We are smarter than you.

    We own you.

    We are the greatest NFL dynasty.

    You are inferior to US.

    You are not on OUR level.

    You never will be on OUR level.

    You are NOTHING compared to US.

    You do not belong on the same field with US.

    You are not worthy to be mentioned in the same breath as US.

    And you will like it.

    🙂

    Love xoxoxoxoxo

    The World Champion Patriots and Patriot Nation.

  83. Another article about the Patriots and any comment that does not say “Tom Brady is GOAT” or “Patriots are wicked smaht” will be downvoted to oblivion

    Does anyone in New England work or do they just sit on sports websites all day? No wonder Boston is so poor.

  84. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:28 PM

    Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.

    ———–

    disclaimer: I realize it is a total waste of my time and effort to try to rationalize with you, however I can’t resist.

    First, the text was “I haven’t gone to ESPN…..yet”. No where does it say he was going to ESPN with ‘information’. You are speculating it was information. Wells was speculating it was information about deflating footballs. Does it say that or even infer that? No it doesn’t.

    Second…..where does it say in the text messages that whatever McNally was going to provide to ESPN would be worthy of the Sportscenter lead story? You’re trying to create a sensationalistic feeling in order to support your speculation.

    Third……nobody knows what he was planning to go to ESPN with except those two guys because the texts do not specify it. Anything anyone else wants to read into it is pure speculation. Maybe it was about deflating footballs…..nobody really knows…..not you, not me, not Wells.

    Get a grip, get screened for OCD, and move on with your life.

  85. I’d bet money 8/10 people who bring up SpyGate to detract the Patriots would flunk a test on SpyGate

  86. When Brady’s penalty for Deflategate is vacated, of course the Patriots’ penalty has to be rescinded as well. No balls were unnaturally deflated so no penalties should be applied.
    Even though McNally taking the balls out of the officials’ room unattended is a rules violation and the Patriots could normally legitimately be penalized for that, it doesn’t apply in this case. Because that was never the violation that was being considered. At most it should be a letter of warning not to do it again.
    After learning everything that has been learned, Goodell should be man enough to say, “We, the NFL, were wrong at many levels. However the root of the issue that became Deflategate was our corporate lack of awareness of the Ideal Gas Laws. That set off a regrettable chain of events that has unintentionally sullied the reputation of Tom Brady, the entire Patriots organization and NFL football. As a result it has also diminished the integrity of the Shield. And I, as commissioner, cannot allow that to stand. To that end, I rescind all penalties and fines charged to Tom Brady and to the Patriots organization. And while I will continue to vigorously defend the right of the NFL to investigate any possible infraction or violation to our rules, regulations, statutes or image, I hereby apologize to Mr. Brady personally and to Mr. Kraft on behalf of the Patriots for the manner in which this investigation was carried out.”

    If Goodell was really concerned about the Integrity of the Shield, that’s how he should bring this issue to a close.

    Will he?

  87. I’m so over this. We really need some more stories related to X and O’s, or pending camp battles, or maybe even a success story about an athlete overcoming something significant. Anything but the joke that has become deflategate?

  88. I’d bet money 8/10 people who bring up SpyGate to detract the Patriots would flunk a test on SpyGate


    What’s a spygate? Is that that thing Patriot Hater kept babbling on about before Malcolm Butler ripped their hearts out? 🙂

  89. I can’t see the NFL testing balls at halftime and end of games. They don’t want any new information, they are happy with the stack of bogus information they have right now.

    Even if individuals bring footballs to games and track the PSI, or the Patriots keep track of postgame PSI, the NFL is going to bury their heads in the sand. That’s what they do.

  90. The commissioner should make a determination if Brady did anything that was detrimental to the integrity of the game.
    If the evidence points to Brady being involved in any way, then the commissioner should keep the penalties as is
    If the NFLPA is going to appeal, then then them go to court and see if a judge will want to actually interject his opinion based on the mutually-agreed-upon CBA

  91. Us Patriots fans come here to defend our team because we’re proud of our team…..and yeah, sometimes when there’s an opportunity to get a little payback in the trash talk department, we take advantage of it, just like the multitudes of brainwashed haters did for months.

    I wish the “sometimes” you speak of here was the frequency of my social security check. Image a check everyday…..what a tool.

  92. I love how the people on here who point at Brady holding onto his phone is evidence that he’s a cheat. That implies that these same people think that he has too much integrity to have deleted any incriminating texts in the 6 months since this all went down.

    So you think he’s a scoundrel and a cheat, but he’s got too much integrity to delete texts?

  93. The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.

    ————————————————-

    Here it is:

    Low level people tend to think they’re more important than they really are. And when they get together, their conversations of self importance become more grandiose.

    Of course ESPN wouldn’t care (or who knows, when it comes to the Patriots, maybe they would).

    And when you are upset with the king of the NFL (Brady), a conversation between Bevis and Butt Head would very likely include something as idiotic and childish as that. Which is also why all texts between these two that are being interpreted by stretching VERY long strides is ridiculous.

  94. nhpats says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:11 PM

    hahaha CONGRATS! you win most naive Pats fan of the day award!!! #1 the league looked at JJ and JM’s TEAM ISSUED PHONES only, not personal phones. Now if you were doing something wrong, would u use phones issued by the team? ofcourse not! So whatever is on Tom’s personal phone is MUCH worse than what we saw on the ball boys’ team issued phones. And #2 tom can delete whatever he wants, that stuff just doesnt go away, its stored in cyberspace and absolutely can be dug up. So to all pats fans YES tom’s phone is the biggest piece of evidence. If your so sure he’s innocent you should HOPE they dont drop the punishment, this goes to court so they view his phone, find nothing and u can rub it in our faces. But just ignoring the biggest piece of evidence and taking Tom’s word on this is the most ridiculous thing possible lol.

  95. I’m okay with the first round pick being taken away.

    It will be awesome next year when after a year of testing we see just how bad #framegate really was to be able to rehash how terrible of a commissioner Goodell is.

  96. quizlingclinic says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:22 PM

    I love how the people on here who point at Brady holding onto his phone is evidence that he’s a cheat. That implies that these same people think that he has too much integrity to have deleted any incriminating texts in the 6 months since this all went down.

    So you think he’s a scoundrel and a cheat, but he’s got too much integrity to delete texts?


    Brady will turn over his phone in his defamation suit.

    So will Goodell, Kensil, Gardi and the rest of the clowns. I can’t WAIT to see these frauds exposed to the world.

    And it will. 🙂

    🙂

  97. “No wonder Boston is so poor.”

    ———————————

    Hahahahaha …..

    Boston is one of the richest and most expensive cities in the country! The average American couldn’t even afford to live in a decent house in any of Boston’s immediate suburbs, never mind the actual city!

  98. Thanks for caving in like a gutless coward, Robert Kraft. 100% innocent, and yet you gave up, in order not to offend your fellow millionaire and billionaire club members. Nice job!

  99. crush22 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:12 PM

    Here’s a thought………
    Quit cheating and nobody would be out to “get you”.

    ————
    Can you enumerate the list of “cheating” in which the Pats have been proven to engage?

  100. A little known but interesting argument the union is expected to make is that the ball inflation rule is a club rule that doesn’t even apply to individual players. So there is an avenue for the penalty against the team to stand even if Brady gets 0 games, as he should. Normally I’d be up in arms for no penalties anywhere, but Kraft has nobody to blame but himself for refusing to stand up to the league office schlubs. I honestly worry if his visits to the WH are causing the spinelessness to rub off on him.

  101. Just be patient non Patriots fans, once this cheater retires Boston will return to their losing ways. Right now the Celtics suck, Red Sox suck and the Bruins suck.

  102. paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:14 PM

    Common sense tells us the ball boys wouldnt go to espn about something so trivial that they wont care. If I’m going to the copps about somthing, its prob not about the pen cap missing from my desk right? Use common sense man. And yes the only two ppl that know for sure are JM and JJ, so lets ask them! Ohhhhh wait, the patriots refused to let Wells talked to them a second time, then were fired so no longer a part of the NFL and the NFL cant force them to speak to them about this. How very convenient……… So the patriots made sure the NFL cant get to JM or JJ and they cant see Tom’s phone, soooooo how on earth does the NFL just let them off the hook? This HAS to go to court so they can talk to JM and JJ and see Tom’s phone. Anyone who is against getting all the information knows the patriots and tom are guilty.

  103. Possible outcomes:

    No reduction of suspension: Patriots haters rejoice. Patriots fans fume. Brady appeals to federal judge and all penalties removed. Goodell looks like the good guy to haters. Patriots fans already hate him anyways. Federal courts investigate the NFL’s exemptions and other benefits. Bad things to come for the NFL.

    Reduction of suspension to 2 games or even 1 game: Patriots haters outraged at the reduction. Patriots fans outraged that suspension is not completely overturned. Federal judge throws away all penalties. NFL is investigated into special exemptions and other benefits. It’s a lose lose situation for the NFL. Ain’t gonna happen.

    Removal of all penalties: Patriots haters are up in arms. Patriots fans rejoice. Haters assume Goodell is truly Kraft’s lap dog. Case is over and people eventually forget about Goodell’s role. They just focus on the outcome and hate the Patriots even more. Goodell avoids federal courts investigating the NFL’s exemptions and other special benefits. Most likely scenario.

  104. WTF is the problem with all the lo and no info commenters? Brady’s suspension is for not cooperating with the investigation – not for any allegations of being involved in deflating or not deflating footballs. He refused to turn over his cellphone. Whether you believe he was right or wrong in not doing so, that is the fact upon which his suspension is based. The question is if a 4 game suspension is reasonable.

    Brady put himself in this position. If Brady does not have to cooperate – per the NFLPA contract – why would anyone else have to? If the NFL investigates collusion between Dal and Den, can they just say “piss off”. Would players be inclined to support Brady if it means owners can simply disregard investigations based on player complaints?

    Not so simple is it?

  105. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:22 PM

    I wish the “sometimes” you speak of here was the frequency of my social security check. Image a check everyday…..what a tool

    ———-

    not every Patriots fan takes advantage of every opportunity….that’s where ‘sometimes’ comes in. sure there are some that take advantage of most, if not every opportunity. other don’t. it would be nice if you didn’t stick us all in the same pigeon hole.

  106. chadsmith013 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:27 PM
    guess when they remove his suspension it will teach all the kids that they can cheat and get away with it….awesome..

    ————–

    Actually it would be a good lesson for kids. A lesson that one should stand up for oneself when one is illegitimately accused of something they did not do. A lesson in justice if you will.

  107. Kraft was one of Goodell’s biggest supporters. He & the by GOD patsies the darlings of the NFL, deserve fines & suspensions for YEARS of cheating one way or another. Maybe Kraft should have been leading the way for Goodell’s dismissal??? Then the by GOD patsies the darlings of the NFL would not be punnished like they have been!!! Don’t worry tho Brady won’t miss any games so Goodell can stay on the good side of Kraft to keep his job!!!

  108. @paulsreverehorse1775,

    Get a grip, get screened for OCD, move on with your life.

    Check his screen name, just another sorry obsessed Steelers fan.

    Frankie, the mortgage is past due!

  109. Plain and simple Patriots fans live by the motto “ignorance is bliss”. What did they mean by the term “deflator” or what were they going to go to espn about? what was their SIX convo’s with Tom about after that game? Whats on Tom’s phone? We can just be ignorant and say “it doesnt matter, Tom says he’s innocent so he is” OR we can actually demand FACTS. Lets go to court, put JM and JJ on the stand and get answers straight from their mouths. Kraft can say ‘deflator’ was a weight term, but i doubt Kraft is close enough with the ball boys to know their inside terms. Lets hear directly from them. Lets see whats on Tom’s phone and not ‘take his word for it’ that there is nothing on there. Either u want to be ignorant, or u want the truth, its that simple.

  110. If Goodell doesn’t completely overturn the suspension to ZERO games, a federal judge will.

    FACT

    Get ready to deal with it Hateriot Nation.

  111. Well since the elimination of Brady’s suspension was part of the closed door deal that Kraft made with Goodell in exchange for not fighting any of the Patriots penalties, no it shouldn’t reduce the team penalties.

  112. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:23 PM
    nhpats says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:11 PM

    ….So to all pats fans YES tom’s phone is the biggest piece of evidence….

    _________________________________

    Really?! What about the footballs?

  113. ampats says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:37 PM

    Check his screen name, just another sorry obsessed Steelers fan.

    ——

    yeah I’ve been watching. that’s why I put the disclaimer.

  114. bigsausagepizza12 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:30 PM
    Just be patient non Patriots fans, once this cheater retires Boston will return to their losing ways. Right now the Celtics suck, Red Sox suck and the Bruins suck.

    ——————-

    You guys really need to get your stories straight. One guy claims that Brady is no good and merely a product of BB and his “system”. Now once Brady (they very guy you haters claim is average) retires somehow the team will stink? Which is it? Well one thing is for sure, either way, your team will continue to stink.

  115. Patriots beat Ravens in divisional round. Ravens grasp at straws and make excuses about perfectly legal substitutions. That’s all they’ve got in desperation. Just an excuse.

    Patriots destroy Colts in AFC Championship. Colts make a bogus accusation about deflating footballs full well knowing about ideal gas law, but hope the officials don’t. That’s all they’ve got in desperation. Just an excuse.

    Patriots win Super Bowl with an amazing last second interception. Patriot hating world says Seahawks handed them the game instead. That’s all they’ve got in desperation. Just an excuse.

    Flimsy Wells report comes out. To appease a Patriots hating nation over a story that they and the media blew out of proportion, a maybe he did, maybe he didn’t verdict is reached. Huge penalty with zero proof is issued. Patriots haters rejoice. That’s all they’ve got in desperation. Just an excuse.

    Brady’s suspension about to be lifted either by Goodell or by federal judge. Haters beat on Goodell or accuse Brady of not manning up and admitting something he likely didn’t even do. That’s all they’ve got in desperation. Just an excuse.

    Do you see a pattern here?

    Haters have an ongoing, systematic culture of routine … EXCUSE MAKING.

  116. dave399 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:25 PM

    “No wonder Boston is so poor.”

    ———————————

    Hahahahaha …..

    Boston is one of the richest and most expensive cities in the country! The average American couldn’t even afford to live in a decent house in any of Boston’s immediate suburbs, never mind the actual city!

    ———————–

    He meant poor at cheating……because you’re always getting caught.

  117. dave399 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:39 PM

    First look up the definition of “fact” before speaking on this site, it makes u look even more foolish than other Pats fans. I love how all pats fans give “all possible outcomes” of this and every single one of them end in pats being completely exonerated. At no point do they think its even possible that brady is guilty, and that is the definition of ignorance. I know ONE level headed pats fan who at least admits that he thinks brady did it. Him and i disagree on how much it helped brady and the team, but at least he can agree this looks terrible for brady and he prob did it.

  118. The biggest problem with this whole situation is it has become a battleground for the Pats fans vs the Pats haters. All reason and sanity be damned.

  119. You gotta love “Patriot Nation”…. Only about 6%-8% were fans until they beat the Rams in Super Bowl 36 … The run they had ended 10 years ago it make no difference if you go to the show and lose that does NOT bridge the gap over the course of a decade…. Enjoy your win this past season because it will be your last for a very very long time………

  120. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:38 PM
    What did they mean by the term “deflator” or what were they going to go to espn about? what was their SIX convo’s with Tom about after that game? Whats on Tom’s phone? We can just be ignorant and say “it doesnt matter, Tom says he’s innocent so he is” OR we can actually demand FACTS.

    ________________________________________

    The answer to these questions will never be a fact to most people. The term deflator probably meant that he deflated footballs. Maybe McNally comes out and says “I wanted a job at ESPN.” Would you believe him? What answer to these questions would you believe as fact?

    The only relevant fact that every football fan should demand is “Were those footballs deflated?” We have all the information we will ever have on that and the results are inconclusive. So we all need to say that, accept that, say the NFL should do better, and move on.

  121. not every Patriots fan takes advantage of every opportunity….that’s where ‘sometimes’ comes in. sure there are some that take advantage of most, if not every opportunity. other don’t. it would be nice if you didn’t stick us all in the same pigeon hole.

    If you are frequently dropping pigeon poop you belong in the hole….and the Tee hee ALL caps troll should be an embarrassment to you non pigeon pooping fans. A little insight….fans don’t hate the Patriots as much as their little weenie fans with their sensitive feelings an over active gums protecting a paper mâché ego. The Pats deserve respect their fans not so much.

  122. 4 games is/was too light, if anything they need to tack on more punishment. Total disgrace to the game… if they reduce this punishment, then it sends the message that cheating is not really bad.

    Not sure why this is even a discussion, seems pretty cut and dry to everyone who is not a Pats fan.

  123. larryodavid says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:52 PM

    Yes hearing JJ and JM explain in a courtroom under oath what ‘deflator’ meant and what going to espn was about would make me and everyone else feel a lot better. Also “we have all the information we ever will have”???? Ummmm Tom’s phone. Thats a HUGE piece of evidence that tom refuses to show. How do we have all the evidence. For EVERYONE’s sake let JJ and JM go under oath and talk without having the Patriots legal team in their ear or having Kraft tell us “what they meant” in the texts. Lets see Tom’s phone, maybe nothing is in there. Id feel better about lowering or getting rid of the punishment if his phone has nothing at all in it

  124. “He meant poor at cheating……because you’re always getting caught.”

    ———————————————-

    That’s what he meant? Wells, is that you? Cause it sounds like the same method of reasoning that went into deciphering the meaning of the ball boy texts.

  125. letsgobuffalo4 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:49 PM
    dave399 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:39 PM

    …. it makes u look even more foolish than other Pats fans…

    Him and i disagree ….

    —————

    Pretty funny that a guy who would use the phrase “Him and i” would call another person “foolish”. Classic!

  126. What a bunch of simpletons on this website. It is particularly amusing that it is the same 15 to 20 feverish zealots that post all the anti-New England rhetoric on here, but even the pro-Patriots faction can’t seem to grasp reality correctly.

    Goodell is currently delaying his decision, or more accurately he previously made a decision but is now reconsidering it, because his initial intent was to reduce the suspension to 2 games. The NFLPA preempted his anticipated move by saying that even a reduction to anything > than zero was going to result in a federal court case being filed. So now Roger is left with the ultimatum that either he vacate the suspension entirely, or risk the entire thing going to federal court.

    And make no mistake. The NFLPA wants this to go to court. That would be the most expeditious method to break the ridiculous stronghold that the commissioner and his minions have over the players in nearly all matters.

    If it goes to court and the court vacates the suspension, then there is a real possibility that Kraft and the Patriots will ask for their punishment to be reconsidered in that new light. Problem is that Kraft has no basis to take the league to court, since he (unwillingly, he says) accepted the fines.

    Try and set aside your preconceived determinations and just imagine for one moment: what if Brady was totally innocent? What would an innocent Brady do when faced with all of these accusations? Ignore your deep hatred for 1 minute and tell us what YOU would do if you were accused of doing something wrong that you did not do. The only plausible answer is that you would fight it tooth and nail, and I think that this is exactly what Tom Brady is doing now.

    But also think about this: Not only can Brady and the NFLPA take the NFL to court for non-performance of the CBA (based on their handling of the faulty investigation and subsequent biased arbitration process, which is tacitly illegal even if it is what is prescribed in the CBA ), but if Brady is pissed off enough by the way these buffoons have aggressively slandered him, he can also file a defamation of character suit, which would pretty easily be proved based only on the media nonsense, leaks by the league, and failures to do anything approaching “fairness” in dealing with the whole affair, plus the evidence that supports the entire thing was a setup prior to the game in question between some of the NFL officials and some of the previously (and soon to be ) defeated teams.

  127. Nobody’s going to take the NFL administration seriously if they keep backpedaling/reversing suspensions and punishments, especially if it’s on a pick-and-choose basis.

  128. Larryodavid, a phone does not record conversations. You’re assuming all this happened by text and that deleted texts can easily be retrieved.

  129. Larry, a large part of the reason it is inclusive is Brady refusing to cooperate and the Pats putting the two former employees off limits.

    Its disingenuous to point out that the investigation did not reach a settled conclusion when you yourself impeded that investigation. Not punishing deliberate refusal to cooperate – as in the CBA – opens a lot of bad doors. I would think he players themselves would want Brady suspended.

  130. rutledge3197 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:51 PM
    You gotta love “Patriot Nation”…. Only about 6%-8% were fans until they beat the Rams in Super Bowl 36 … The run they had ended 10 years ago it make no difference if you go to the show and lose that does NOT bridge the gap over the course of a decade…. Enjoy your win this past season because it will be your last for a very very long time………

    Said crybaby nation last season too.

    I like how you try to diminish the team by leaving out the fact that they have been in 3 SB in the last 10 years and 6 in the last 15 winning 4.

    And please explain how only 6% to 8 % were fans when they have sold out every game since 1994.

    Oh wait you can’t.

    Just another crybaby trying to talk shiz and doesn’t have a clue

  131. sure why not , they shouldn’t of been fine, Kraft, Bill was clear of any wrong doing by Welch.

  132. Let him play now because he has little time left. A QB looking at 40. Two hits away from retirement.

  133. Your home state doesn’t count !!…. There are more bandwagon fans with this franchise than any other in the NFL…. You tools are just to blind to see….no matter what you say your run ended after New England beat the Eagles in SB 39 …. The Yankees didn’t have a 15 yr run cuz they lost in the WS twice it ended in 2000…. You Pats fans are by far some of the worst in sports history

  134. Oh flash the 49ers won 5 between Jan. 1982 & Jan. 1995 and somehow didn’t manage to lose any….the problem with Patriot fans is they think way to highly of themselves ….

  135. Not only can Brady and the NFLPA take the NFL to court for non-performance of the CBA (based on their handling of the faulty investigation and subsequent biased arbitration process, which is tacitly illegal even if it is what is prescribed in the CBA ).

    Tacitly illegal? Simpleton is the right word, just dirercted the wrong way. If the NLPA got before a Federal Judge, could they cite procedural flaws and punishment v precedent issues with the NFL? Absolutely. Could they blow up the Well’s Report as biased, with flawed science and cherry picked facts, with dubious conclusions? Sure. First, they have to get a Judge to hear the case. Previous cases like the Saints, Rice and APeterson were based on completely different things. The NFLPA bargained away the right to Goodell to act as arbiter. Federal judges are very reluctant to override an arbiter that has the power, based on rules collectively bargained in good faith. They’ll just send it back to the NFL.
    Do I believe Brady asked anyone to deflate FBs below 12.5 psi? Not a chance. Is there any proof? Hell, no. Do I think Goodell upholds the wildly over the top punishment? Yup. Because he can.

  136. gojuplyr says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:16 PM
    Not punishing deliberate refusal to cooperate – as in the CBA – opens a lot of bad doors. I would think he players themselves would want Brady suspended.

    _________________________________________

    I would argue the opposite. The Wells report indicated Brady did cooperate with the investigation but did not give up his personal phone. If the NFL is going to require players to yield personal correspondences in order to enforce their rules, there is something wrong. This is a violation of privacy. I would think the players (indeed the NFLPA) does not want to set the precedent where players are forced to give up personal information for the sake of “cooperating”.

    It seems very clear to me that the NFL simply did not have the proper procedures in place to enforce this rule. They should have admitted this and moved on. The investigation went off the rails in search of incriminating evidence, beyond their physical evidence and relied on threads of texts between Jastremski and his mother to make up conclusions. It’s perfectly reasonable to refuse to give up your phone in these circumstances.

  137. Goodell plays a caricature of himself as the good guy who cares about the fans in “Draft Day”.

    He talks about how important the first round of the draft is to fans.

    Alas, in reality, he strips the Patriots of their #1 pick about every five years, all on bs charges.

    When it came time to hand over the Lombardi and the Super Bowl XLIX MVP to the Patriots and Brady he looked like his dog died.

    Here’s hoping the Patriots go back to back because it would be poetic justice.

  138. bencoates57 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:16 PM
    Larryodavid, a phone does not record conversations. You’re assuming all this happened by text and that deleted texts can easily be retrieved.

    _________________________________________

    I’m not assuming anything. I’m saying all the phone-related “evidence” is a red herring. This information should not have been used as the basis for making definitive conclusions. The only evidence we can use to determine if the ball pressure was under 12.5 was on the pressure gauges. That data was incomplete and inconclusive. Therefore, NFL enforcement of this particular rule was inadequate.

  139. Defend the whine. Tell others its OK to cheat. A proud tradition going back the whole TB/BB era.

  140. Goodell is trying to suspend Brady for 4 games for the equivalent of an offsides penalty.

    This whole thing has been a joke from the beginning. I don’t know if every team deflates their footballs, but I get the sense that maybe 15 – 20 teams do this. Everybody is claiming to be innocent Angels who never do anything wrong because they are scared of Sherriff Goodell giving them a ridiculous penalty as well.

    Fine The Patriots $25,000 and if you REALLY want to mess with Brady, just change the rule and have the officials bring all footballs to the game and monitor them at all times.

  141. The union always wants to go to court, it is always in their best interest. However, that does not mean it is in the players best interest. And in this case, it is not in Brady’s best interest. The NFL is on rock solid ground. Brady is not. The NFL has no fear of the union. And if this does go to court, the NFL will be more than ready.

  142. The players don’t like the team that cheated getting a trophy for doing just that.

  143. This whole thing revolves around a word. One word: deflator.

    The physical evidence shows no wrongdoing at all. Tom Brady may or may not have asked his locker room guys to make sure the balls were not over 12.5 PSI, but considering the natural effects, they were not significantly lower than that at any time.

    The very same specious “report” that suggests wrongdoing exonerates the team at the very beginning, yet the League’s henchmen levied the highest penalty in League history on the franchise in spite of it.

    Of course the penalties against the Patriots should be reversed; they never should have been levied in the first place!

  144. Knowing Goodell’s love of the Patriots, Brady and Kraft, I fully expect Brady’s suspension to be overturned. He’s been catering to them for years, I don’t see this as being any different.

  145. FoozieGrooler says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:51 PM

    Doesn’t even matter at this point.
    Brady’s a dead man.
    No way he finishes this season, or ever plays another.

    —-

    Tee hee 🙂 I think I can translate that.

    That means “Please someone take out Brady because the limp wristed skirt wearing fruitcakes otherwise known as my favorite team simply isn’t good enough or man enough to beat him on the football field fair and square. And never will be. ”

    🙂

  146. rutledge3197 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:38 PM
    Oh flash the 49ers won 5 between Jan. 1982 & Jan. 1995 and somehow didn’t manage to lose any….the problem with Patriot fans is they think way to highly of themselves ….

    ***********
    Totally different era. No Free Agency then and no Salary Cap then. Imagine, if you will, that same 49er team in this era. Jerry Rice signs with another team. The next year John Taylor signs with another team. Joe Montana asks for so much money that Roger Craig can’t be signed. That is why what the Patriots have done is more impressive than the 49ers. That said, you compete in the era you played in. I can’t take anything away from the 49ers- unless you want to talk about that stick um.

  147. “Knowing Goodell’s love of the Patriots, Brady and Kraft, I fully expect Brady’s suspension to be overturned. He’s been catering to them for years, I don’t see this as being any different.”

    ————————————————-

    If you call issuing the 2 biggest, most over the top penalties in the history of the NFL “catering to them”, I’d hate to see your definition of “out to get them”.

  148. The NFLPA bargained away the right to Goodell to act as arbiter. Federal judges are very reluctant to override an arbiter that has the power, based on rules collectively bargained in good faith.


    EXCEPT… if you believe reports, Goodell DID have say on setting the original penalty. That nullifies him as arbitrator per CBA and I expect Kessler to argue the same thing.

  149. This whole mess was amateur hour. The NFL handled it so unprofessionally it was astounding. Brady would be well within his rights to sue the pants off them for defamation and slander after the clowns Vincent and Kensil leaked false information to ESPN. Love to see Kessler get those con men on a witness stand.

  150. Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.
    __________________________________
    Given that the dialogue between the two was loaded with trash talk I think it would be a mistake to accept these lines as literal. It kind of reads like a text exchange between most buddies: loaded with bs, tongue-in-cheek tomfoolery, sexual innuendo, and melodramatic bravado. I betcha if I surveyed some random text messages between you and a friend/co-worker I could find stuff that is easy to reinterpret as illicit, criminal, or whatever I happen to feel like looking for.

  151. “beachsidejames says:
    Jul 16, 2015 6:10 PM
    The players don’t like the team that cheated getting a trophy for doing just that.”

    That must be why the players voted two Patriots in the top ten players in the league and a former Patriots player who left in free agency with a ring the 17th.

    If this was Star Trek instead of the NFL it is fair to say none of the Patriots detractors would be Vulcans.

  152. It would be a good argument if Kraft hadn’t already thrown in the towel on us.

  153. Well considering the Wells report said the Patriots organization and coaching staff did no wrong, they shouldn’t have been docked 2 picks in the first place. How can you say they did no wrong then penalize them?

  154. Robert Kraft laid down for that idiot Goodell. Just awful. As said before, doing so showed a lack of support to a Boston icon and all Patriots fans. Pathetic.

  155. The difference between this situation and the Saints is simple: The Saints ACTUALLY did place bounties on opposing players; no one on the Patriots deflated ANY footballs.

    The team NEVER should have been punished in the first place. However, since Kraft gave up the fight (probably due to pressure from the other owners to NOT make the league look worse than it already does), he almost certainly guaranteed that the Pats will not get a reduction in their punishment.

  156. If you read what the union’s points will be if they sue, no where does it say the balls were not deflated. Only that equipment rules are for club personnel only and do not apply to Brady. And he can’t be punished because he didn’t know what the punishment was, if they do apply it to him. And even after all that, he should not be punished because of a game in Minnesota.

  157. If you read what the union’s points will be if they sue, no where does it say the balls were not deflated. Only that equipment rules are for club personnel only and do not apply to Brady. And he can’t be punished because he didn’t know what the punishment was, if they do apply it to him. And even after all that, he should not be punished because of a game in Minnesota.

  158. limakey says:
    Jul 16, 2015 6:05 PM

    ………….The NFL is on rock solid ground. Brady is not. The NFL has no fear of the union. And if this does go to court, the NFL will be more than ready.

    ________________________________________

    Limakey, I believe you believe this to be true. I still have no idea how you stick to these beliefs after all that has been revealed.

    Goodell will just have to become a man and admit his mistakes. He can’t keep hiding behind the skirts of the owners and at the same time say that he is fighting for the integrity of the shield. I know it must hurt for him to accept he is no longer relevant. But it is what it is and trying to hold on won’t change that.

    Goodell should even be apologizing to Jastremski and McNally on behalf of the NFL for the damage that was done to them.

  159. beachsidejames says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:33 PM
    Let him play now because he has little time left. A QB looking at 40. Two hits away from retirement.

    ————

    He wants to play well into his 40’s. Has no desire to retire because you wish for it so hard. Just won a Super Bowl and looked good doing it. Only time spent not playing was when cheap-shot artist Bernard Pollard caved his knee in 8 years ago. Get ready to lose some more to him and for a good while longer.

  160. Brady by himself sucks. He’s just one of hundreds of pawns that Belicheat uses to cheat 99 times each week to look like a good team.

    If Brady was drafted by Tennessee and had no Belicheat and his brain trust that makes the entire roster cheat every week then Brady would be fired in a year. He sucks. That’s why it didn’t matter when Kassel played. He was taught to cheat too with the same results. Garafalo will too. The QB doesn’t matter when the offense, defense, and special teams cheats 99 ways every Sunday. The only punishment should be to the coaches/owner.

    Peter King and Dan Patrick are still around? Is it the 80’s? Each one of them is repulsive on their own. One on the other’s show must be horrendous.

  161. The NFL has zero, zip, absolutely no set written and approved standards of accurately measuring & recording footall pressure before/during and after a game.
    Yet, Goodell & Well$ rejected the Laws of Physics which are irrefutable.
    On top of that both the AFCCG and SuperBowl XLIX were played with NFL Approved Rule 17 footballs under the Highest NFL Scrutiny in the entire history of the game.
    Not a word from Goodell on the Integrity of the Game. You have to ask yourself – WHY?
    No rule violations occurred, so WHY the fines, loss of draft picks and suspensions?
    Only one answer to that question – CONTROL = PARITY = Stop the PATRIOTS from getting back to the SuperBowl and Repeating.

    At this point the American people should, at the very least be protesting the NYC NFL office and demanding Goodell & other personnel removal from the NFL.

    If you want INTEGRITY in the NFL you must remove the CANCER = Goodell + NYC headquarters location.

  162. wk1234 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 6:26 PM
    rutledge3197 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 5:38 PM
    Oh flash the 49ers won 5 between Jan. 1982 & Jan. 1995 and somehow didn’t manage to lose any….the problem with Patriot fans is they think way to highly of themselves ….

    ***********
    Totally different era. No Free Agency then and no Salary Cap then. Imagine, if you will, that same 49er team in this era. Jerry Rice signs with another team. The next year John Taylor signs with another team. Joe Montana asks for so much money that Roger Craig can’t be signed. That is why what the Patriots have done is more impressive than the 49ers. That said, you compete in the era you played in. I can’t take anything away from the 49ers- unless you want to talk about that stick um.

    —————————————

    The Niners used to win Super Bowls by 40-50 points. The Pats won by 3-4 points with cheating. The Niners were stacked with talent on both sides of the ball. The Pats have no talent on any side of the ball. They replace trash with trash. They play in the garbage AFC East and AFC. Belicheat cheats 99 ways every Sunday to beat the Jags, Browns, or Jets. The only player that I’d want on the Pats from the last 15 is Revis, but not at his price. I wouldn’t want anyone else on my team. That’s how bad they are. I never even realized that people were anti-Pats or that Brady was a face of the NFL. I never heard anything like that in life. I’ve never good thing about the team. The Pats just cheated so much that they’re to be slightly more relevant than the Browns, Jets, Bills, Bengals, Dolphins, Saints, Jags, Titans, Colts, Texans, Chiefs, Chargers, Eagles, Falcons, Bucs, Panthers, Saints, Lions, Vikings, Seahawks, Cardinals, or Rams.

  163. “No!!1 I trust my gut!! I know Brady cheated!!!”

    I like how Patriots hater rationale went from:
    – “I don’t need to read the Wells Report to know Brady cheated” to…
    – “No, I mean read the Wells Report, I just can’t cite anything it says but I know Brady cheated.” to…
    – “Bro, I just trust my gut.”

    In all this time with all this pontificating and alllll this rationalizing why you don’t have to actually see the evidence you all could have actually READ THE REPORT.

  164. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Jul 16, 2015 3:28 PM
    Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.
    ——————————-
    In this case the text messages are irrelevant. You can guess what they mean, I can guess what they mean. It doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is that they have been accused of deflating footballs, and the balls were proven not to be.

  165. bigsausagepizza12 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 8:54 PM
    How delusional are Patriots fans? They would defend Brady if he raped Obama’s kids.
    ————————
    Wow buddy, you’ve some personal issues. Pathetic. You can be a hater but exhibit a modicum of class.

  166. Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.
    ——————————————————————
    It was a joke, just like the Wells Report was a joke. Wells put his own interpertation on what the texts meant. I think the ones that actually did the texting would have a better idea of what the texts meant but Wells likes his version better even if it was made up. If they actually went to ESPN then that would be a story, but it was a joke and there is nothing to go to ESPN about.

  167. I will try once again to post this. Hopefully it won’t get deleted again.

    Here is why the NFL has no chance in court. The court case will not be about the actual deflation of footballs. It will be a procedural matter concerning the CBA. Guilt or innocence is irrelevant to these proceedings in general. That would be determined at a later date when it gets referred.

    Let’s start with the equipment violation. The CBA has the equipment violation of $25K and it is a team penalty. No player has ever been suspended for an equipment violation even when there is 100% conclusive evidence. It has always been a fine. The courts expect punishments to be fair and equitable when dealing with a CBA. This did not occur and that alone could have the punishment thrown out.

    The next thing is the detriment to the integrity of the game that is being claimed. At some point the court will want to know what part of the penalty was for the rules infraction, and what part is for detriment to the game. Here is where Roger is in a real bind. The CBA states that only the commissioner can impose discipline for conduct detrimental. The issue being, is if he were to hand down the discipline, it would have been very hard for him to be the arbitrator due to bias. He just got slapped around by the Missouri courts for just this thing. So he passed it off to Troy Vincent. That right there violates the terms of the CBA. He stated that he consulted with Troy on the punishment. He is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Either he did or didn’t determine the punishment. If he did, the Missouri courts already told him it would be illegal to be the arbitrator. If he didn’t, then he violated the CBA. Poor man has no where to go.

    Hios last hope would be the failure to cooperate. Once again he has several issues there. First, the Wells report stated Brady was fully cooperative on everything except when it came to providing information from his personal phone. There are two cases of this previously, Gostkowski and Favre. Punishments were none for one and a $50K fine for the other. No suspensions. Once again this goes back to fair/equitable/precedent issues.

    He did not cooperate on his personal phone. Privacy issues galore for the NFL on that one. Can they search your house, your car, computers, tablets, etc. I don’t think the courts are going to allow that to fly. The CBA does not require a player to give up their privacy to be cooperative. It does not even state that they need to be “fully cooperative”. I did read it and I believe it said something to the effect that cooperation must be fair and reasonable. The courts are not going to look at invasion of privacy(a violation of the constitution) as reasonable I would assume.

    At the end of the day his best play is to eliminate all penalties and say there was insufficient/inconclusive evidence to uphold them. Otherwise, he could be going a lot further than he anticipates. The NFL can not afford many more court losses before the feds decide to investigate their business practices. Ther is a pattern developing and it is all tied back to Roger. He has made the owners a ton of money, but if they don’t smarten up, he may end up costing them more.

  168. In the Wells Report Bill is cleared and the organization is held blameless. Yet the team is fined and draft picks lost.

    That is the long term negative effect. Losing Brady for 4 games would hurt the Patriot’s chances of making the SuperBowl ie no bye week or no home field advantage.

    But losing a #1 pick, a player that could be a starter for 5-7 years is what hurts the long term success of the team.

    Which is what Roger wants. Parity is king. Do you think anybody outside of NE wants to see the Pats in a 5th straight AFCCG???

    It is a fatigue factor. People get tired of the same team in the hunt every year.

  169. I have no doubt they will reduce it to 2 or less games. The patriots are the league favorites and darlings. They are the team that has cheated the most in league history and somehow they are the league darlings. Makes me want to puke

  170. You guys smoking crack? The whining would be so loud on this board every stray dog in the eastern hemisphere would be parked outside your studio.

  171. So when do they move on to the Patstericks causing interference on opposing teams head phone sets?

    I just want to say it’s awful cute of you Patstericks fans so blindly supporting your team. I bet you log in under multiple accounts just to thumbs down those who don’t have their head in the sand.

  172. The Niners used to win Super Bowls by 40-50 points. The Pats won by 3-4 points with cheating. The Niners were stacked with talent on both sides of the ball.
    ===
    Once. They won once by 40+. Twice by 20+. Twice by less than a touchdown.

    Welcome to the salary cap era. We’ve had exactly two repeat champions since 1994, and only a handful of Super Bowl Blowouts.

    =====
    The Pats just cheated so much that they’re to be slightly more relevant than the Browns, Jets, Bills, Bengals, Dolphins, Saints, Jags, Titans, Colts, Texans, Chiefs, Chargers, Eagles, Falcons, Bucs, Panthers, Saints, Lions, Vikings, Seahawks, Cardinals, or Rams.
    ===
    The record books disagree with your assessment.

  173. Here’s what I’d like a member of the Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club to explain, if you please.

    The one equipment guy threatens to “go to espn” with some information in his texts. The official team line is that he’s talking about exposing getting free equipment. Seriously? Do you seriously think espn would care about something that trivial? Like Sportscenter would lead with a story about some ball boy getting a free pair of sneaks. Ooooh imagine the ratings!

    So what was the equipment guy REALLY threatening to go to the media about here? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

    Please explain. I’m dying to hear the rationale for this one.
    __________________________________
    Given that the dialogue between the two was loaded with trash talk I think it would be a mistake to accept these lines as literal. It kind of reads like a text exchange between most buddies: loaded with bs, tongue-in-cheek tomfoolery, sexual innuendo, and melodramatic bravado. I betcha if I surveyed some random text messages between you and a friend/co-worker I could find stuff that is easy to reinterpret as illicit, criminal, or whatever I happen to feel like looking for.

    _______________________________

    However when these same two as described above make claims on NFL game Referees tampering with Pats game balls. The Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club takes this claim as Gospel.

  174. bigsausagepizza12 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 8:54 PM
    How delusional are Patriots fans?
    ______________________

    Really?

    So you honestly think Brady should be suspended for allegedly being “generally aware” of a completely “unproven and unsubstantiated equipment violation” committed by “someone else” if at all?

    Or do you just have so much built up hate for Brady that the facts really don’t matter? I am guessing the latter.

  175. This entire case shows the difference between a process engaged in trying to find the truth and a process trying to establish guilt while ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

    As Mike points out, there is an opportunity to retest this entire field all season long. If the NFL were to do that, we would know by December what the expected range of air pressures should be on a cold, rainy day.

    According to Exponent, the experts cited in the Wells report, balls at 12.5 psi before the game started should be expected to be in the range from 11.32 – 11.52 psi at halftime. Three of the Pats’ footballs were below that range, five were in that range, and three were above that range, presuming that we only look at the gauge that Walt Anderson remembers using before the game started.

    So we already have evidence that supports the Patriots. The AEI report supports the Patriots even more. If the NFL were to simply collect more data, nobody would hold it against them. Their refusal to do so seems to imply that there are people working there who are unwilling to let go of the notion that the Patriots are guilty.

    That should be the real investigation. Why has the NFL head office conducted an inquisition under the name of doing an impartial investigation? Why did the league office lie to the public and to the Patriots about the values of the measured air pressures?

    It’s not a question with a pretty answer.

  176. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:55 PM

    If you are frequently dropping pigeon poop you belong in the hole….and the Tee hee ALL caps troll should be an embarrassment to you non pigeon pooping fans. A little insight….fans don’t hate the Patriots as much as their little weenie fans with their sensitive feelings an over active gums protecting a paper mâché ego. The Pats deserve respect their fans not so much.

    ———

    What’s your problem?

    You have posted three comments in this thread, and all you have done is called people names. In two of them it was directed at Patriots fans, in the other it was directed individually at me.

    So I ask again, what’s your problem?

  177. Precedent doesn’t seem to mean too much to these guys, as they seem to be making it up on the fly.

    If precedent (and Goodell’s own words to Sean Payton: “ignorance is no excuse”) meant anything, Belichick would have been penalized as well. And he wasn’t; there wasn’t the faintest whiff of the NFL having questions about him in this, which I found a bit odd because of the repeat offender angle. (If I were a Saints fan my blood would still be boiling, and not just because of the unbearable heat in NOLA.)

    Not sure where this appeal is going, but you can be sure it won’t rely overly on precedent.

    Now if Brady wore unauthorized socks, all bets are off. Man, the league might increase the penalties for something that extreme.

  178. ‘However when these same two as described above make claims on NFL game Referees tampering with Pats game balls. The Patriots fan junior scientists/lawyers club takes this claim as Gospel.”

    Are you trying to use text messages to prove that tampering happened even when the ball pressures show that no tampering happened?

    So if you have two guys in a bar talking about how they drive fast, and they later drive through a speed trap, and the radar gun shows them under the speed limit, would you give them a ticket anyway?

    Weird stuff.

  179. SUMMARY: Said former Dallas Cowboys head coach Jimmy Johnson: “When I came into the NFL, back in ’89, I talked to a Kansas City scout and he said, ‘Here’s what we do, we videotape the opposing team’s signals and then we sync it up with the game film.’ So I did it.”

  180. “Its disingenuous to point out that the investigation did not reach a settled conclusion when you yourself impeded that investigation. ”

    How dare Brady not sign a confession!

    Seriously, Ted Wells had no right to demand that Tom Brady hand over his phone. Even the police need a warrant to do that. Employers don’t have the right to violate employee’s private records.

  181. “deweygroup says:
    Jul 16, 2015 9:51 PM
    I will try once again to post this. Hopefully it won’t get deleted again . . . ”

    Excellent analysis.

    It is clear that this wasn’t about anything other than the Patriots winning and the rest of the owners upset at Belichick’s tactics in beating the Raven’s and Brady’s comments after the game that Harbaugh should “read the rulebook” instead of complaining. That game left the other owners (and the NFL suits) worried that the Patriots would do anything to win. The fools (Vincent and Kensil) jumped at the low psi in the Colts game as a a “gotcha” moment when they only caught their own ignorance.

  182. The NFL finds BB and the Patriots organization not guilty in Deflategate. It’s sheer malice to impose such heavy penalty for nothing. Kraft in order to save his business and not to throw the NFL in turmoil swallowed the stiff penalty. This will bite him in the posterior once the Patriots suffers from those lost draft picks. He takes it for granted that the Pats will win no matter what. Should the Patriots penalty be reduced? Maybe just take Kraft money and re- store BB’s draft picks.

  183. 1) the famed texted messages occurred in May and don’t prove anything.

    2) the balls weren’t deflated- proven fact.

    What exactly should Brady be admitting to and be punished for, your jealousy?

  184. ranlgon says:
    Jul 16, 2015 9:50 PM

    It was a joke, just like the Wells Report was a joke. Wells put his own interpertation on what the texts meant. I think the ones that actually did the texting would have a better idea of what the texts meant but Wells likes his version better even if it was made up. If they actually went to ESPN then that would be a story, but it was a joke and there is nothing to go to ESPN about.
    ——————————————-

    So now we’re going the “he was referring to losing weight when he said deflate” route. Uh huh.

    So his texted threat to go to espn was a “joke”? And you know this how? Did he put a little smiley face thingy at the end or something?

    I don’t think Wells is the only one putting up his own arbitrary “interpretation” here.

    Best of all, somehow you know that there was “nothing to go to espn about.” And again, you know this how? Yes, there was nothing to go to espn about, and that’s exactly why he took the time to text that thought. Plus you miss the point — it’s not about whether he went to espn or not. It’s what did bit of information did he have that caused him to THREATEN to go to espn.

    Still haven’t gotten a decent answer…

  185. The way the NFLPA lawsuit threat is worded, it seems as if they think Brady deflated the balls. The NFLPA’s problem is in the severity of the punishment and the mechanism in which it was carried out.

    For the record I think Brady asked the guys for softer rather than harder footballs. The key is if they ever went below the minimum range and knowingly violated the rule.

    Maybe that’s why Brady had that awkward presser where he looked like a guy caught staring at Kate Upton’s video game commercial when his wife walks in the room.

    Let’s be honest, how many people knew this was even a rule until the day after the AFCCG?

    For 7 years the NFL never cared to enforce it until this moment. Why? Because they were making money hand over fist and would rather have games end 38- 35 than 13- 10. So they turned a blind eye until it was convenient for them.

  186. paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Jul 16, 2015 4:14 PM

    disclaimer: I realize it is a total waste of my time and effort to try to rationalize with you, however I can’t resist.

    First, the text was “I haven’t gone to ESPN…..yet”. No where does it say he was going to ESPN with ‘information’. You are speculating it was information. Wells was speculating it was information about deflating footballs. Does it say that or even infer that? No it doesn’t.

    Second…..where does it say in the text messages that whatever McNally was going to provide to ESPN would be worthy of the Sportscenter lead story? You’re trying to create a sensationalistic feeling in order to support your speculation.

    Third……nobody knows what he was planning to go to ESPN with except those two guys because the texts do not specify it. Anything anyone else wants to read into it is pure speculation. Maybe it was about deflating footballs…..nobody really knows…..not you, not me, not Wells.
    ——————————————

    Hey bud, when you’re done swapping love notes with your chum ampats, take a quick look here.

    1. So, if “I haven’t gone to espn… yet” doesn’t refer to going to them with some kind of information, what then DOES it refer to? Going to them and dropping off a dozen roses? A bushel of apples? Let’s see, I’m going to a major sports reporting network whose sole product is information — whatever would I be going to them with? A truckload of bottled water? By the way, you don’t “threaten” to go somewhere with something that’s positive — it’s always something negative, like spilling the beans.

    2. Apparently you don’t grasp the concept of sarcasm. I wasn’t being “sensationalistic” I was actually mocking the Patriots official line that the equipment guy was referring to “getting free shoes behind his boss’s back” as the big secret he was threatening to tell ESPN — as if this would be something the network would actually care about in the first place! “Hey guys, cut that US Women’s Soccer team story, we got a new lead! Some ball boy on the Patriots got comped a new pair of sneaks! And get this — his boss had no idea! Stop the presses!” You see what I did there?

    3. Yes, I agree that “nobody knows what he was planning to go to espn with” but I’ve said that from the start. I merely asked WHAT he might be ACTUALLY going to ESPN with, since the Patriots official line seems a bit unlikely (see point 2 above). Keep in mind that the espn threat follows shortly after the equipment guy refers to himself as “the deflator” so please, don’t act like it’s all unreasonable to wonder if that’s in fact the real explanation here.

    So again, we’re back to “speculation” but that’s the whole point of what I asked, before you turned this around into a big fat tail-chaser. So again I’ll ask: what does a guy in a series of texts which discussed deflated footballs have that might be worthy of going to a major sports reporting network? What was he planning to spill? Or are you actually buying what the team wants everyone to believe?

  187. What if I told you….
    That Kraft dropped his appeal because Roger and Krafty had a deal in place regarding taking it easy on Tommy

  188. limakey says:
    Jul 16, 2015 6:05 PM
    The union always wants to go to court, it is always in their best interest. However, that does not mean it is in the players best interest. And in this case, it is not in Brady’s best interest. The NFL is on rock solid ground. Brady is not. The NFL has no fear of the union. And if this does go to court, the NFL will be more than ready.
    —————-
    Right, the NFL has such a stellar record against the union…… You can’t actually believe half the crap you write.

  189. There should be no decision until they check EVERY GAME BALL for every game next season! Because, of course, it has never EVER been done in the history of the NFL!

  190. If use multiple exclamation points, you are trying to convince yourself.

    It’s just mind boggling an equipment rules infraction exploded into this farce. I’d like to see some direct evidence of Brady’s guilt. Those calling for Brady to forfeit his civil rights because Goodell asked are myopic.

    Get a court order for my private communications or go pound sand.

  191. diehardgiantsfan says:
    Jul 16, 2015 8:42 PM
    ….

    The Niners used to win Super Bowls by 40-50 points…

    With the former 49ers Head Coach (Bill Walsh) and starting QB (Joe Montana) colluding with the team’s WRs to have them use stickum, when it was illegal, that gave the 49ers a huge competitive advantage. So we know for a fact that the 49ers were cheating with stickum during the Montana Super Bowl wins, and we know for a fact that the 49ers were cheating on the salary cap when Steve Young helped them win a Super Bowl.

    OTOH, there is absolutely no evidence that the Patriots were cheating during any of their Super Bowl wins. Lots of innuendo, lots of slander, lots of libel, and no evidence.

    So what exactly was your point about the cheating 49ers* again?

  192. Really riling up those lemmings…what will you do when this doesn’t happen?

  193. The vision from Patriot fans on this subject is just as blurred as Goodell’s is from power.

    All teams try to find that “competitive edge”, trying to bend the rules in one way or another. Patriot fans are just more defiant about their innocence.

  194. Blame Bob Kraft, he didn’t have the stones to fight, wanted to be buddies again with his Billionaire owners club. Of course there should be no penalties, but Kraft blew it.

  195. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Jul 17, 2015 12:39 AM

    So again I’ll ask: what does a guy in a series of texts which discussed deflated footballs have that might be worthy of going to a major sports reporting network?

    ———-

    I already answered that question: Nobody knows. Not you, not me, not Wells.

    An interesting part of your comment is that you interpret McNally’s comment as a threat. It is clear from the context that he was cranking Jastremski about something; the comment was clearly sarcasm.

    Question for you: why do you have a screen name that gives an opinion of another commenter on here? Does it make you feel superior in some way? I’m just trying to grasp why someone would do such a thing.

  196. There Patriots are guilty we all know that, the ball and equipment guys straightened that one even the most die hard Patsy must surely accept this. But i do believe the punishment was harsh but then again they have been at it before and i think the NFL has just basically said enough is enough. 2 games, $500,000 and a 1st rounder.

  197. somepeopleneedtogetalife says:
    Jul 16, 2015 11:56 PM

    The way the NFLPA lawsuit threat is worded, it seems as if they think Brady deflated the balls. The NFLPA’s problem is in the severity of the punishment and the mechanism in which it was carried out.

    ————

    Hard to say what the NFLPA actually thinks, but that was setting the table, so to speak, for the grounds in which they can sue. I don’t think the suit can be about innocence/guilt, but like you said in your 2nd sentence is exactly what it is about and probably is the limitation of what it can be about.

  198. Lifetime ban for Shady, Krafty and Belicheat. Teach children values that cheating should not be tolerated and to cooperate with the law/investigations.

  199. jonkybon says:
    Jul 17, 2015 7:57 AM

    Lifetime ban for Shady, Krafty and Belicheat. Teach children values that cheating should not be tolerated and to cooperate with the law/investigations

    ———

    So then the Wells Report is valid for Brady but not for Belichick and Kraft?

    I think what you’re teaching children is that it if you’re out to get someone, it’s the results that matter, not how you get there.

  200. Lifetime ban for Shady, Krafty and Belicheat. Teach children values that cheating should not be tolerated and to cooperate with the law/investigations.
    ========================
    Better to teach children better values than what you are exhibiting here. Crafting cutesy names for people you don’t like doesn’t bolster your argument is rather childish, don’t you think?

  201. jonkybon says:
    Jul 17, 2015 7:57 AM

    Lifetime ban for Shady, Krafty and Belicheat. Teach children values that cheating should not be tolerated and to cooperate with the law/investigations.

    ——————————————–

    That would only be true if they actually cheated, which of course you haters would rather go to your graves than admit that the evidence was too flimsy. Rather, let’s teach our children to fight for fairness and justice when the powers that be unfairly punish someone and use shady evidence in the process.

    #freebrady
    #feelthebern

  202. Hard to say what the NFLPA actually thinks, but that was setting the table, so to speak, for the grounds in which they can sue. I don’t think the suit can be about innocence/guilt, but like you said in your 2nd sentence is exactly what it is about and probably is the limitation of what it can be about.


    This lawsuit won’t be about innocence/guilt but the next one – Brady’s defamation suit – will. 🙂

    Brady will happily turn over his phone for inspection at that time. NOW TURN OVER YOUR PHONES GOODELL, KENSIL, GARDI, GRIGSON AND WELLS. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE?

  203. paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Jul 17, 2015 7:28 AM

    ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Jul 17, 2015 12:39 AM

    So again I’ll ask: what does a guy in a series of texts which discussed deflated footballs have that might be worthy of going to a major sports reporting network?

    ———-

    I already answered that question: Nobody knows. Not you, not me, not Wells.

    An interesting part of your comment is that you interpret McNally’s comment as a threat. It is clear from the context that he was cranking Jastremski about something; the comment was clearly sarcasm.

    Question for you: why do you have a screen name that gives an opinion of another commenter on here? Does it make you feel superior in some way? I’m just trying to grasp why someone would do such a thing.

    —–

    All intelligent and objective football fans in existence knows that the “go to ESPN” comment was a joke, completely tongue in cheek and not meant literally.

    Guess that group rules out Patriot Hater huh?

    🙂

  204. It still amazes me how NE fans whine and moan that PFT is biased against their team when the majority of articles is pro-Pat garbage like this.

    Oh well, as long as they’re tied up here, they won’t be out hijacking comment threads on other articles.

    #youhatedcuzyoutainted

  205. Love the self righteous crygaters. All your teams are so pure. If the camera guy was in the first row you wouldn’t be able to use the lame spygate excuse to make excuses for losing to the Patriots. Don’t forget, taping like the Patriot’s got caught doing in the first game of 2007 was not illegal prior to 2007 so how does that make the destruction of tapes a big deal? Please explain. Some guys keep bringing up the false report that the Patriots taped a walk through. Matt Waslsh said he didn’t. NFL rules state once the balls are turned in, only league officials can handle them. Is it the job of the Patriots to enforce the rules. Face it, Walt Anderson didn’t care about the balls being taken out of the locker room by the attendant because PSI never mattered. New York times interviewed ball boys who admitted refs rarely measured PSI and used a feel test. Can you constant whiners stop acting like little children and calling them cheaters because you can’t beat them on the field. Seahawk fans in particular. You have so many PED cheats on your team so who are you to cry. The balls were properly inflated for the Super Bowl and you LOST! You will see that Butler interception for the rest of your life so enjoy it hawks fans. Click on my name if you dare.

  206. People whine that Brady is arrogant and disrespects other teams and if that is true I like him all the more. 🙂

    Because that is exactly what little wussies deserve, to be slapped around and treated with contempt and disrespect.

    If Wussies don’t like it – then do something about it and get better so you earn his respect.

    🙂

  207. It still amazes me how NE fans whine and moan


    Nope, no whining and moaning here, we are still celebrating that World Championship and now FOUR SHINY RADIANT LOMBARDI TROPHIES! 🙂

    Life really is great as kings of the NFL smiling down at all inferior teams and their inferior fans beneath us. Nothing to whine and moan about at all!

    🙂

  208. p=nT

    It’s really kind of funny listening to Pat fans trying to explain they completely don’t understand.
    ===
    It’s PV=nRT, ya dope.

  209. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 9:09 AM

    All intelligent and objective football fans in existence knows that the “go to ESPN” comment was a joke, completely tongue in cheek and not meant literally.

    Guess that group rules out Patriot Hater huh?

    ———-

    actually, I think some haters are intelligent and objective football fans. however, not usually having anything tangiable to crank Patriots fans, they resort to the usual spin, taking things out of context, and tired old debunked storylines. Funny how a number of those screen names you don’t see on any other teams’ articles, unless they are using them to crank Patriots fans. I suspect their intelligent comments are reserved for their other screen name(s).

    Some others, I have found, when you try to take the conversation beyond the standard talking points (of both sides) have some very interesting things to say. It’s too bad the conversations can’t always be like that.

    But I could be wrong.

  210. staticphear says:
    Jul 17, 2015 8:54 AM

    Patriot ball buy already admitting to tampering. The team’s guilt isn’t a question. Weather Brady knew or not is

    ———-

    please provide a page number and paragraph from the Wells Report that confirms your statement.

  211. I do not understand the whole notion of Goodell backing down but …

    If I had my druthers, and I imagine I am not alone here, the Opening Game of 2015 season has Brady behind center and Bell in the backfield. The opening game missing two elite players stinks.

    Unfortunately, on Bell at least, there is no hope in heck he suits up for that game.

    P.S. Who knows about AP this year, so excluding him, I think Leveon Bell is the best back in the game right now. He was behind Murray last year, but that was then, Brady is the best QB in the game (sorry Aaron).

  212. Alright, everyone. Can we calm down, drop the emotional attachment to the team and look at this from a more objective stand point?

    Brady was suspended because he did not cooperate fully with the league. They concluded that he “more probably than not” had knowledge of wrong doings. If the case goes to a federal court, it will not be about the accuracy of the Wells Report or the science used, which we can all agree is suspect at best, but instead about what Brady was required to do under the CBA to constitute reasonable cooperation.

    The reason that the findings of the Wells Report will not be the question in a federal court is that Kraft accepted the team punishment, which was specifically for the offense that the Wells Report claimed the team was responsible for. The team could have attacked this report and tried to have the penalties removed or reduced, but did not, thereby admitting wrongdoing.

    It makes no sense for the league to vacate penalties on the team, as they accepted those without a fight. The team quite likely accepted the punishments without a fight in an effort to have Brady’s suspension for not cooperating removed or drastically: “No need to suspend Brady, Roger, you ‘caught us red handed’ (insert eye roll here). We will accept our punishment and you can keep your reputation.”

    It is most likely that Brady will have his suspension drastically reduced or removed entirely, however it will not go completely unpunished, as that sets a dangerous precedent. Maximum: One game. Minimum: $25,000 fine (also known as “chump change” to Brady).

  213. actually, I think some haters are intelligent and objective football fans. however, not usually having anything tangiable to crank Patriots fans, they resort to the usual spin, taking things out of context, and tired old debunked storylines. Funny how a number of those screen names you don’t see on any other teams’ articles, unless they are using them to crank Patriots fans. I suspect their intelligent comments are reserved for their other screen name(s).

    —-

    Very true. And when I say “Patriot Hater” I’m referring to those who hee haw all over Patriot related articles…I suspect they aren’t really much of a fan of the sport at all….of course I’m not referring to intelligent fans of other teams who may dislike the Pats but they are objective and you can talk football with them. Unfortunately they are a small minority on Patriot related topic it seems. It is what it is.

  214. STILLlolatpatshaters | Jul 17, 2015, 9:42 AM EDT
    “KNEEL BEFORE ZOD.”

    — Tom Brady to Patriot Hater
    🙂

    Hee hawing Patriot articles? What in gods name would you call your childish antics…..it won’t be confused with mature discussion or football knowledge ….troll. You are not in a position to judge unless it’s distortion or fabrication of facts.

  215. There is a tiny difference between Payton’s suspension and Belichick’s non suspension.

    There WAS evidence Payton knew about the bounty program and didn’t put a stop it after the league told them to knock it off.

    There is zero evidence Belichick knew about footballs being deflated illegally. Of course as objective and intelligent fans already know – that’s because it didn’t happen. 🙂

  216. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Jul 17, 2015 10:45 AM

    STILLlolatpatshaters | Jul 17, 2015, 9:42 AM EDT
    “KNEEL BEFORE ZOD.”

    — Tom Brady to Patriot Hater 🙂

    Hee hawing Patriot articles? What in gods name would you call your childish antics…..it won’t be confused with mature discussion or football knowledge ….troll. You are not in a position to judge unless it’s distortion or fabrication of facts.

    —-
    Tee hee 🙂 I just think it’s comical Patriot hater loves dishing it out but they sure can’t take it! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

  217. The reason that the findings of the Wells Report will not be the question in a federal court is that Kraft accepted the team punishment, which was specifically for the offense that the Wells Report claimed the team was responsible for. The team could have attacked this report and tried to have the penalties removed or reduced, but did not, thereby admitting wrongdoing.

    —-
    Oh but the book isn’t closed on that. 🙂 The day that report is incinerated in court is coming.

    Two words: Defamation Lawsuit.

    Either by Brady himself or – more likely I suspect – by the ballboys. There is a good reason why they have been curiously silent about the whole thing. No question they would have taken a monster payday from the likes of TMZ to spill the beans about any cheating and don’t think the offers haven’t already come in.

    And yet… silence.

    Such is the actions of 2 men who have lawyered up and ready to strike when the time is right… like a snake hiding in the bushes. 🙂

    #itscoming
    #getready

  218. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 10:59 AM

    Oh but the book isn’t closed on that. 🙂 The day that report is incinerated in court is coming.

    Two words: Defamation Lawsuit.

    Either by Brady himself or – more likely I suspect – by the ballboys. There is a good reason why they have been curiously silent about the whole thing. No question they would have taken a monster payday from the likes of TMZ to spill the beans about any cheating and don’t think the offers haven’t already come in.

    And yet… silence.

    Such is the actions of 2 men who have lawyered up and ready to strike when the time is right… like a snake hiding in the bushes. 🙂

    #itscoming
    #getready

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    My statement was in how the Wells Report would factor into Brady’s punishment. There is a chance that the team could bankroll the ball boys for a defamation suit (which they would likely win) or that Brady could file his own (which is less of a slam dunk), but that is an entirely different matter.

    As far as Brady’s appeal, and any potential federal lawsuit to follow, is concerned the Wells Report is a moot point. Yes, it is flawed. And yes, if it is scrutinized in a federal court, it will be tossed aside. However, because Kraft accepted the punishments for the Patriots organization, the report doesn’t need to be accurate. Even if the Patriots *in reality* did nothing wrong, the acceptance of punishment was a de facto admission of guilt.

    The federal case, if it progresses to that point, will focus on the Collective Bargaining Agreement. Did Goodell act within the confines of the CBA when delegating the decision on the suspension of Brady? Did Brady meet the requirements of “reasonable cooperation” set forth?

  219. dal1as says:
    Jul 16, 2015 10:14 PM
    I have no doubt they will reduce it to 2 or less games. The patriots are the league favorites and darlings. They are the team that has cheated the most in league history and somehow they are the league darlings. Makes me want to puke

    ———————

    Serious question. Can you enumerate these incidents of “cheating”?

  220. I like to thought of gathering data for study before shooting the gun.

    They should look that possibility over before making the judgment final.

    Does that sound fair or tainted??/

  221. As far as Brady’s appeal, and any potential federal lawsuit to follow, is concerned the Wells Report is a moot point. Yes, it is flawed. And yes, if it is scrutinized in a federal court, it will be tossed aside. However, because Kraft accepted the punishments for the Patriots organization, the report doesn’t need to be accurate. Even if the Patriots *in reality* did nothing wrong, the acceptance of punishment was a de facto admission of guilt.

    ———

    I agree that the federal lawsuit is about the penalty and the process only. The one after that will be for defamation, and obviously with defamation it’s all about the fundamental question of is it defamation if it’s “true”? And we go from there and find out exactly what is or isn’t true.

    As for Kraft, only he knows why he stepped aside. It doesn’t have to be “guilt”…there are many reasons why he would do so. It could be as simple as going rogue would end up forcing him to sell the team. It could also very easily be that he found little support among the owners because they want the process to play itself out first and see what happens with Brady and if Brady is cleared then he has their support. We don’t know, but I suspect we will in the not too distant future.

  222. If Goodell were smart he’d say “you know what? The NFL did a lousy job gathering the PSI info and Exponent did a lousy job evaluating it.” And then throw out the Brady suspension and lost draft picks.

    That MIGHT make it go away to a degree for him. As it stands he REALLY should want to avoid any scrutiny of the Wells Report

    Their bias is clear for anyone to see…. even the fact that the Colts also had balls under 12.5 on one gauge

    The funny thing about that is that Wells writes that off the Colts under-inflation by effectively saying “for the Colts, we’re going to assume the higher gauge was the right one”

    For the Patriots however, Wells assumes that the LOWER one was the right one – in fact at every turn where Wells has to make an assumption, he assumes the worst for the Patriots, including the opposite of the “best recollection” of the lead official.

    This keystone cops sting operation itself is something that Goodell REALLY shouldn’t want looked into – because again it’s all there for everyone to see. The leaks of false information – supposedly the NFL – and then the NFL itself in a written letter ALSO using those SAME numbers to fluster the Patriots when they KNEW the stated PSI were wrong. Trying to scare an admission from the Patriots since, darn it, those balls actually really WEREN’T deflated?

    This whole thing is a rabbit hole for an NFL HQ of former Jets executives who openly HATE Belichick and the Patriots. Such open bias and manipulation with a vendetta against a team and coach is going to truly tarnish “the shield” and undermine the integrity of the game thanks to Goodell.

    But we know Roger isn’t smart – so don’t get your hopes up (just wait til GoodellGate!)

  223. paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Jul 17, 2015 7:28 AM

    I already answered that question: Nobody knows. Not you, not me, not Wells.

    An interesting part of your comment is that you interpret McNally’s comment as a threat. It is clear from the context that he was cranking Jastremski about something; the comment was clearly sarcasm.

    Question for you: why do you have a screen name that gives an opinion of another commenter on here? Does it make you feel superior in some way? I’m just trying to grasp why someone would do such a thing.
    —————————————————

    Oh so suddenly NOW you’re grasping sarcasm? Better yet, now YOU’RE going by “context” which is another way of saying “my biased take on what he said.” So now you know that I’m wrong, and he wasn’t saying those words as a threat? Really?

    Well, you know who else says he meant those words as a threat? YOUR OWN TEAM. Allow me to quote from your very own NESN reporting on the topic:

    “The Patriots explained McNally called himself ‘the deflator’ because he was trying to lose weight. They said he threatened to go to ESPN, not because he was deflating footballs, but because he was receiving free shoes from Jastremski.”

    Did you get that little word there, “‘threatened’ to go to ESPN”? So let’s sum up:

    1. McNally was indeed “threatening” to do something.

    2. Yes, despite your hollow uninformed rantings, McNally WAS holding some “information” just as I said. And, according to your very own team, had ESPN in mind as the potential place of delivery.

    Enough “context” for ya, chief?

    Game. Set. Match.

    Of course, both the Patriots’ explanation for the “deflator” nickname AND what he was going to spill are pretty ludicrous. Which is why I asked the original question, if McNally wasn’t going to spill his guts about getting free swag, what then WAS he (yes) threatening to go to ESPN about?

    As for my screen name, nah, no superior feeling gained here. It’s simply a little fun, an homage if you will, to a certain poster who once spewed all kinds of unsubstantiated rumor and hate towards a certain other team’s player — and now whines non-stop about how unfair it is for OTHERS to do to his guy Brady, what he did FIRST. Make sense now?

    What else can I enlighten you with, my friend?

  224. Someone needs to feel the heat from this fiasco, someone from the NFL needs to be the fall guy.

    They look like complete and utter idiots.

    However when 31 teams, their fan bases and their cities, many of which have not even smelled the success that New England has, then a case can be made and contorted and reported by Mort and ESPN to be true.

    …and if that is selling then the rest of the media is gonna hope on board and drum up the doubt, it makes for good business. The hate is already there anyways. Buddy on the field was recording and the other 31 had multiple guys in the stands, ex-players and coaches said the same thing, but New England are the ****, the cheaters.

    A complete and utter joke. Any other business with competition would have the person accountable for this mess gone a long long long time ago.

    Meanwhile, the bully lawyer came in on his saddle, hiring companies that produce laughable evidence and spin it in a way that the other 31 and their fan bases would take hook line and sinker. All the while taking his millions and laughing all the way to the bank.

    Nope, this is not a sitcom, this is actually true…

  225. If Kraft opted to wage war with Goodell over Deflate-Gate, he would’ve declared battle not just on the 31 other owners, but on himself as well. He’s been arguably the commissioner’s biggest benefactor. After standing by Goodell through a bungled domestic violence investigation and concussion scandal, it would’ve looked awfully hypocritical for Kraft to abandon him over deflated footballs.

    Outside of fiery rhetoric, which the Patriots supplied plenty of in their Wells Report rebuttal, there wasn’t much else Kraft could do. His only option was to sue the league, which would’ve put him in sports infamy alongside Al Davis and Donald Sterling. The chances of Kraft, who sits on five league committees, taking a dramatic step like that were probably slim to none.

  226. Jul 17, 2015 10:12 AM
    STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 9:09 AM

    All intelligent and objective football fans in existence knows that the “go to ESPN” comment was a joke, completely tongue in cheek and not meant literally.

    ———-

    actually, I think some haters are intelligent and objective football fans. however, not usually having anything tangiable to crank Patriots fans, they resort to the usual spin, taking things out of context, and tired old debunked storylines. Funny how a number of those screen names you don’t see on any other teams’ articles, unless they are using them to crank Patriots fans. I suspect their intelligent comments are reserved for their other screen name(s).

    Some others, I have found, when you try to take the conversation beyond the standard talking points (of both sides) have some very interesting things to say. It’s too bad the conversations can’t always be like that.

    But I could be wrong.
    —————————————————

    You sure could be! Finally you got something right, with that last sentence of yours.

    So now that both you and STILLlolatpatshaters guy have been proven wrong about that “go to espn” and “threatening” thing (oh where are his cute smiley faces now?), let me just say this:

    For a fan base so smug about how “uninformed” other fans are, you guys sure are blissfully ignorant about certain facts when it comes to defending your team.

    But keep on making the condescending “disclaimers” and arrogant know-it-all statements like YOU have the actual ability to interpret “context” and tell us poor slobs what the guys’ texts “really” meant.

    And I’ll keep on educating you nonetheless.

    You see we don’t need no stinkin’ “context” when the Patriots THEMSELVES tell us that the guy LITERALLY was threatening to go to ESPN. It’s just that their reasoning for “why” seems a bit unbelievable.

    So then, now that we’ve had our round-trip tour on the logic track, back to the original question and let me rephrase: “now that we know the ‘deflator’ was threatening to go to ESPN, what WAS he going to spill the beans about?”

    p.s. Next time you high-five your boy ampats, I want you to remember just how “OCD” he was when he was spewing the falsehoods and venom at a certain other team’s player. I mean, the dude just wouldn’t quit!

  227. Brady was suspended because he did not cooperate fully with the league. They concluded that he “more probably than not” had knowledge of wrong doings. If the case goes to a federal court, it will not be about the accuracy of the Wells Report or the science used, which we can all agree is suspect at best, but instead about what Brady was required to do under the CBA to constitute reasonable cooperation.
    ===
    Your first sentence above is wrong – or rather it incomplete. Brady was suspended both for failure to reasonably comply AND for his MPTN knowledge of the sceme. We now know that there was no scheme, so any suspension for the latter is unsustainable. Furthermore, any suspension for the former – even if the court agrees with the NFL that submitting a personal phone is reasonable* – is capricious and arbitrary in light of prior – and current – precedent, and violates shop rules. Basically, if the NFL wishes to change how it punishes failure to comply -whatever that means – it has to notify the NFLPA and possibly bargain for it. The NFL can’t all of a sudden decide that something that was a $50,000 fine yesterday is a two game suspension today. That doesn’t fly.

    *Which it won’t, because that would be a huge break from precedent.

  228. @dal1as says:
    Jul 16, 2015 10:14 PM
    I have no doubt they will reduce it to 2 or less games. The patriots are the league favorites and darlings. They are the team that has cheated the most in league history and somehow they are the league darlings. Makes me want to puke.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    Talk about no clue dal1as…The team that has cheated the most is the Denver Bunkos…But never, ever let the facts get in the way…just another troll who’s team won’t make the playoffs this year!

  229. What else can I enlighten you with, my friend?
    ===
    Tell me this: Why do the NFL’s own measurements of NEP’s balls show no reduction in the amount of air molecules in the football?

    Because they don’t, and that’s what this is all about. It’s about reducing the number of moles of gas in a football. It’s not about texts. It’s not about phones. It’s not about shoes. It’s about moles of air in a football, and the data show that none was removed.

    Then answer this: why is this still a thing?

  230. So now that both you and STILLlolatpatshaters guy have been proven wrong about that “go to espn” and “threatening” thing (oh where are his cute smiley faces now?), let me just say this:

    —-
    Nope, not wrong at all 🙂

    It was a joke, completely tongue in cheek. There really is no tangible reason whatsoever to believe otherwise. 🙂

    #FactsAreFacts
    #YouDontHaveToLikeFactsButTheyAreStillFacts

  231. ampatsisahypocrite says: Jul 17, 2015 1:39 PM

    —–
    Since you’re a Steeler fan and seemingly an expert on interpreting quotes from people and ruling out context…

    I am more than curious to hear what your take is on Terry Bradshaw’s appearance on a nationally syndicated radio broadcast and not only apologizing for his and his team’s steroid use on that show but he actually said “what we did [steroid use] was wrong”.

    Steeler fan of course insists (incorrectly) that PEDs were legal in the 70’s and therefore they did not cheat. So even if they were legal (and they were certainly not)… apologizing when you did nothing wrong….seems rather curious yes?

    🙂

    #gotcha

  232. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 2:25 PM

    Since you’re a Steeler fan and seemingly an expert on interpreting quotes from people and ruling out context…

    I am more than curious to hear what your take is on Terry Bradshaw’s appearance on a nationally syndicated radio broadcast and not only apologizing for his and his team’s steroid use on that show but he actually said “what we did [steroid use] was wrong”.

    Steeler fan of course insists (incorrectly) that PEDs were legal in the 70’s and therefore they did not cheat. So even if they were legal (and they were certainly not)… apologizing when you did nothing wrong….seems rather curious yes?

    #gotcha
    ————————————————–

    Better change that hashtag, dude, you’re not even
    close to “getting” me.

    So basically I’ve been proven right about the “deflator threatening to go to espn thing,” so as expected, it’s time to change the subject and try to bring down other teams into the mud. Thanks for declaring me the victor dude!

    OK then, I’ll play along, as many times as I have with this Bradshaw thing. First, though, I’d like you to show me a source for this quote, and the quote itself, as I’ve net searched and come up with nothing. Sorry, it sounds suspiciously like one of those things “you heard somewhere” and can’t substantiate.

    The only time I’ve heard Bradshaw talk about “steroids” was on Patrick’s show, where — and listen carefully — he stated the he used corticosteroids, which aren’t the PED variety. In other words, plain old cortisone shots, which were legal as they should have been. Cortisone shots — you call someone a “cheater” for taking those, you might as well call someone a “cheater” for popping a couple of Advils. Because they’re both simple anti-inflammatory medications.

    But most importantly, YOU’RE the one who’s “incorrect” about the legality of steroids (the bodybuilding kind). They WERE quite legal back in the 1970s, in fact not being banned by the NFL until 1987. So given their legal status back when Bradshaw played, it seems odd he’d even have anything to “apologize” for in the first place.

    Yep, here’s another case of the misinformed Patriots fan spouting off falsehoods and misguided accusations, all the time lecturing the rest of us for doing that. And trying to create cheating where there is none.

    Like I told your pal Paul, I’ll get you guys educated yet…

  233. SurfBandits says:
    Jul 17, 2015 1:44 PM

    Talk about no clue dal1as…The team that has cheated the most is the Denver Bunkos…But never, ever let the facts get in the way…just another troll who’s team won’t make the playoffs this year!
    ————————————————-

    Wait a second… Denver? Where are you getting this information? I hope it’s not from that silly “your team cheats” site. You’re not taking that thing seriously are you? PLEASE tell me no.

    You DO know that the site is run by Patriot fans (or maybe you don’t because they go out of their way to hide it). So if you DON’T know, well, I’d say you shouldn’t be lecturing anybody else on “having no clue.”

    Just like Pats fans do here, that site’s another example of Patriot fans trying to justify their own cheating legacy by attempting to drag down everyone else into the mud with them.

  234. Better change that hashtag, dude, you’re not even
    close to “getting” me.

    So basically I’ve been proven right about the “deflator threatening to go to espn thing,….

    —–

    Nope I am sure that hashtag is right on the mark. 🙂

    And Bradshaw on the show did say steroids not corticosteroids. 🙂 He only “clarified” his remarks the day AFTER the show aired …after it hit the news that Bradshaw outed himself and his team as PED cheats. Its a little something called “damage control”. 🙂 Perfectly understandable but too late. And he certainly wouldn’t apologize like he did if he had nothing to apologize for. 🙂

    And no…steroid abuse- such as their use as PEDs- was never legal in this country at any time. And anyone who did it- including your team- are cheats. You guys won those titles with the help of cheating. Bradshaw admitted it. Period.

    My point? I just think it’s interesting you would shamelessly spin Bradshaws comments in a way that suits your liking…. just as you did for the “go to espn” text. Repeating “I am right and you are wrong” does not make it so.

    🙂

    #yep
    #gotcha

  235. Well, we’ve established from the Patriots themselves that their equipment guy was indeed “threatening to go to ESPN,” and suddenly there’s no sign of our resident context expert “paulrevereshorse.”

    Must be resting for another one of those midnight rides of his.

  236. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 6:16 PM

    Nope I am sure that hashtag is right on the mark.

    And Bradshaw on the show did say steroids not corticosteroids. He only “clarified” his remarks the day AFTER the show aired …after it hit the news that Bradshaw outed himself and his team as PED cheats. Its a little something called “damage control”. Perfectly understandable but too late. And he certainly wouldn’t apologize like he did if he had nothing to apologize for.

    And no…steroid abuse- such as their use as PEDs- was never legal in this country at any time. And anyone who did it- including your team- are cheats. You guys won those titles with the help of cheating. Bradshaw admitted it. Period.

    My point? I just think it’s interesting you would shamelessly spin Bradshaws comments in a way that suits your liking…. just as you did for the “go to espn” text. Repeating “I am right and you are wrong” does not make it so.
    ————————————————

    Dude, I take it by all the smiley faces you use you’re really just out to jerk some chains. I hope so, because if not you’re seriously full of garbage.

    And not another WORD until you produce that quote I called you on. Otherwise you’re busted for making up yet more trash to try and defame the greatest dynasty ever. (And while I understand the jealousy, that’s no excuse for the lies.) So come on, big boy, let’s see you produce that “apology” quote. And make sure you source it.

    Bradshaw said “steroids” because it’s interchangeable with “corticosteroids” of course. A cortisone shot IS using a steroid. So is taking a puff on an asthma inhaler. Neither qualify as PED use or cheating. It’s only that you want to CREATE “cheating” where none exists, of course.

    And sorry Sparky, I didn’t “spin” anything — unlike you, I furnish direct quotes from real sources. Here’s what Bradshaw DID say about using cortisone: “It was to speed up the healing process. That was it. It wasn’t to get bigger and stronger and faster.” Doesn’t sound like much of an “apology” to me. (Likewise you can read my quote from NESN where the Patriots say that the ball boy WAS threatening to go to ESPN, which you continue to pretend doesn’t exist.)

    What’s CHEATING is how you try to spin it like the ’70s Steelers were the only team who had players engaging in the COMMON practice of using steroids. So you can make it seem like they acted alone. So slimy, so dishonest. Tsk tsk.

    As non-Steeler Lyle Alzado himself said back then “90 percent of the athletes I know are on the stuff.” So in FACT no team gained a competitive advantage using them until 1987 — because only then could someone use them and his opponent not.

    Now, Rodney Harrison doing HGH a decade ago — now THAT’S “cheating.” So I guess that tarnishes the Pats dynasty right? By your standards it sure does.

    Wow dude you must be some kind of masochist to keep coming back and taking schooling after schooling from me.

    Now put up or shut up with that apology quote….

  237. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Jul 17, 2015 6:16 PM

    And no…steroid abuse- such as their use as PEDs- was never legal in this country at any time. And anyone who did it- including your team- are cheats. You guys won those titles with the help of cheating.
    —————————————————-

    OK bud, now that I’ve more than cheerfully answered YOUR questions, how about you do me the favor of answering one of my own?

    As you know, Rodney Harrison and several other members of the Patriots were suspended for testing positive for PEDs during the championship run of the 2000s. But funny, I never heard you use a phrase like this about your team:

    “And no…steroid abuse- such as their use as PEDs- was never legal in this country at any time. And anyone who did it- including your team- are cheats. (Our) guys won those titles with the help of cheating.”

    It’s a fact that the 2000s Patriots had guys suspended for performance-enhancers. So you’d have to admit by your own standard that the New England Patriots won THEIR titles with the “help of cheating” right? Because as you say, ANYONE who did it would be “cheats.”

    So come on, let me see you type it: “the New England Patriots of the 2000s are a bunch of cheats who won their titles with the help of cheating.” Say it proudly!

    As a linebacker on one of your rival teams once said: “can’t wait!”

  238. With each passing day since Tom Brady’s hearing, life has become increasingly more difficult for the NFL front office in their claim that the Patriots and Tom Brady were treated and punished fairly in regards to Deflategate. If their punishments sat in a vacuum they could make that claim, but now we fans have a few more instances where we can point and say clearly and definitively the Patriots and Brady were being head hunted by fools, that a double-standard absolutely exists, and that the NFL front office needs to see a drastic change in personnel. Of course, we all know that instances existed previously.

    New instance number one is Greg Hardy. After his paid vacation last year, which in effect meant absolutely nothing in terms of personal punishment unless Hardy’s contract was full of performance incentives, Hardy has now received a reduced punishment to 4 games from the original suspension of 10 games. Apparently, that means that this NFL says that beating and threatening a woman is on par with possibly maybe taking less than a half a psi of air out of a football, and then not handing over your phone to untrustworthy creeps who leak everything from personal text messages all the way to medical records. We already had a precedent for the phone issue in Brett Favre, who sexually harassed a team employee and sent inappropriate pictures to said employee and then refused to hand over his phone. This resulted in a $50,000.00 fine for obstruction, the same thing for which Brady is being punished over 40 times more drastically. Also, the NFL did not fine or suspend Stephen Gostowski for the same exact infraction, when he plays for the same exact team.

    The NFL claimed it had to be tougher on Brady because of the ‘history of cheating’ within the Patriot organization, yet failed to remember that Brady had absolutely nothing to do with Spygate, and also failed to suspend Gostowski for a literally identical infraction. To try and explain the Brady punishment using NFL logic, think of being sentenced to four years in prison for jaywalking because your brother shot someone seven years ago. All of this is fair according to the NFL, because integrity.

    New instance number two is the claim from Adam Schefter that the Dallas Cowboys and Denver Broncos engaged in some questionable behavior regarding the upcoming contracts of their star wide-receivers. As Rich Hill already reported, this is a perfect example of how the Patriots are treated unfairly. Naturally, nobody in the media is talking about it, and I am sure the NFL will do almost nothing in terms of punishment. This claim, if true, is so much more significant than the BS the NFL is trying to pin on the Patriots and Tom Brady. Moreover, the teams involved have a history of cheating in this same exact way. While Spygate cannot be linked to Delfategate in any way except in the minds of idiots, these contract shenanigans are quite similar to the infractions which the Cowboys and especially the Broncos have previously been punished.

    On that note, let’s do a recap:

    P1) Hardy throws a woman into a bath tub, drags her out by her hair and threatens to kill her, chokes her on the floor, throws her onto a couch that also happens to be his storage area for loaded assault rifles, threatens to shoot her with said rifles, then pushes her out of his apartment. Resulting Punishment: 4 Games.

    P2) Brady is a member of the New England Patriots. The Colts complain the Patriots are using deflated footballs. Even though Brady specifically asks that the officials be supplied a rule book with the legal inflation limits, the league still claims he has been the ring leader of an illegal ball-deflating crime ring. Without any evidence, and with no knowledge of the Ideal Gas Law, the league sanctions a multi-million dollar investigation that proves absolutely nothing except that two Patriot employees are text messaging fiends. Resulting Punishment: Also 4 Games.

    P1) Favre sends pictures of his manhood, along with photos and videos of him pleasuring himself to a Jet employee in 2008. When the league investigates, Favre refuses to hand over his phone and does not admit any such wrongdoing occurred. He makes their investigation more difficult by not cooperating. Resulting Punishment: $50,000.00

    P2) Brady refuses to hand over his cell phone after multiple leaks, including the names and addresses of the low-level Patriot employees, to the media. Even though the league already has the phones of the two other employees, they still feel Brady obstructed their investigation. Resulting Punishment: 4 Games, and more than 40x the monetary value of Favre’s punishment. *Stephen Gostowski does the same exact thing and receives nothing.

    And that’s just Brady. Let’s also recap the team punishments:

    P1) The Broncos film the 49ers walktrough practice in 2010. This is 100% against the rules, and comes a few years after the Patriots were punished for filming completely legal things from a maybe illegal position. Resulting Punishment: $50,000.00 for the team, $50,000.00 for the coach.

    P2) The Patriots filmed things that every team in the league film still to this day, but they do it from the sideline. While not against the rules according to the rule book, it was against the rules according to a memo sent out by the new Jets, I mean NFL, front office. Resulting Punishment: $250,000.00 team fine, $500,000.00 coach fine, loss of first round draft pick. *And this was the first time the Patriots had ‘cheated’.

    P1) While every (or at least most, depending on whether the footballs were actually within the range to begin with, which there is no guarantee) game played below 54 degrees or above 90 degrees technically plays with footballs outside of the legal inflation range, never once in the history of the NFL has the league ever tried to measure the psi of their game day footballs. Resulting Punishment: This had never previously been punished.

    P2) The Colts, Packers, Ravens, Jets, Bengals, Buccaneers, Eagles, Bears, Saints, Cardinals, Texans, Panthers, Chargers, and Vikings all break the rule for tampering with the footballs after they have been approved by the officials. Resulting Punishment: Several stern warnings and a few $25,000.00 and $50,000 team fines.

    P3) The Patriots use footballs that obey the laws of physics. Resulting Punishment: $1,000,000.00 team fine, loss of first and fourth round draft picks. *NFL used previous Spygate punishments as reason for the heavy punishment.

    P1) The Broncos and Cowboys collude to manipulate the contract situations of their star wide receivers. This is the second time that both teams have been caught for similar (certainly more similar than Spygate and Deflategate) infractions. The Broncos in particular have a history of this behavior, as they manipulated their contracts to stay under the salary cap during their championship years. Even better, the quarterback involved as a player when this took place (1996-1999) is now the current GM of the Broncos. Resulting Punishment: TBD

    P2) Anything the Patriots do. Resulting Punishment: Whatever the league feels like, and certainly more than anyone has previously been punished for similar infractions.

    Here’s where it is going to get really interesting. As stated before in Rich Hill’s article, the Cowboys (meh) and definitely the Broncos have engaged in this behavior before. How much will their past transgressions be taken into account with the new punishment? It happened so long ago, right? So did Spygate, so that excuse is out. It happened to different people within the organization, right? Not really. This is a perfect parallel to what happened to the Patriots. It is so much more similar, and so much more egregious, the punishment would need to be super severe in order to maintain the illusion that the Patriots don’t have a target on their back from the rifle of the league front office. Every single punishment thus far has been met with almost nothing for everyone else, and screaming bloody murder towards the Patriots. The league and Goodell have a chance here to over-punish someone else, and doing so will remove some of suspicion that the league is out to get the Patriots. Will they take advantage? Yeah, right.

    Integrity.

  239. Love how people are still saying they feel that he should be banned for the whole season. There is an appeal in process as we speak due to the fact that there isn’t any real evidence that Brady “cheated”. How can you still be calling for a full season suspension when there is significant evidence proving that the balls were most likely not tampered with but instead affected by the environment.

    It’s a sad case of confirmation bias. In this day and age, people would rather believe what they want or what the media portrays. Do a little bit of independent research instead of buying into the hype.

    Even if you hate Brady or the Pats, can you really say that there is proof any foul play occurred? If you’re still hanging your hat on a few text messages, you really need to wake up…. The science behind the Wells report has been completely debunked.

  240. I think all points of steroid use and cheating in the past by almost all organizations is fair play. Anyone who thinks their team has not cheated on some level is clearly delusional. Just check out yourteamcheats.com which is a third party objective site that points out all infractions by all organizations.

    Yes, every team has been popped for PEDs. Yes, every team has video taped signals from what would be illegal spots today. Those are just the more common infractions. I won’t get into tampering, faking injuries, collusion between organizations, selling of private game tape, and even different examples of bounties which the Saints were run through the ringer for.

    The point here is that I think Patriots fans feel that it is unfair that such harsh penalties are levied against them where other teams skate on similar or the same allegations. Even if it is proven that Brady did knowingly circumvent the rules, how should be feel that’s he’s labeled a cheater when the Vikings and Panthers were warned last year for doing the same thing?? I’m not some delusional dill weed who thinks there is no chance something went down here, but I’m also not some hardo who believes everything a media outlet tells you to believe.

    If it comes out that Brady did tell these guys to let air out of the balls to an illegal level, I’ll be more disappointed in the lying than the actual infraction. The book calls for a $25000 fine in instances like these, but the lies and reputation are what really gets killed.

    Instead of sitting back and crucifying each individual player or team, take a second to think how you would feel if you were a fan of said player or team.

    Should chargers fans think a lot of what they have accomplished is tainted because of Gates getting popped for PEDs?? Should Hawks fans discount their championship due to many PED allegations? Should the Broncos have an asterisk next to their titles due to salary cap violations or collusion with the Cowboys in more recent times??

    You start to see a pattern that shows every organizations having players or staff that attempt to circumvent the rules. It’s clearly made to be a bigger deal when a guy like Brady is in the line of fire or even Jerry Rice with his Stickum comments. The fact is that all players and organizations need to be held to the same standards here whether they suck or are winning regularly.

    Let’s all get off the high horses for once when it comes to this crap, believe it or not your organization cheats as well guys/gals.

  241. Tee hee 🙂

    Seems that the saying is proven over and over and over again with Patriot Hater.

    Denial really ISN’T just a river in Egypt! 🙂

  242. The few texts pulled from the equipment guys are discussing overinflated footballs, not underinflated footballs.
    Brady flew off the handle on JJ and JJ told JM about it.
    If the officials didn’t overinflate footballs way over regulation in a game against the Jets, we probably wouldn’t be talking about this.
    Wells manipulated the texts to underplay the fact that Brady wanted the footballs down to regulation PSI, not wrongly overinflated by the ref.

  243. The NFL front office in NYC with Goodell and the other JETS need to be taken out to the NJ Meadowlands Landfill where they belong – and it will not cost much since it is just minutes away.

    NFL Headquarters MUST be relocated to Canton, Ohio with men who understand and value Honesty, Fairness & Integrity.

  244. kingkreg12 says:
    Jul 18, 2015 2:26 AM
    I think all points of steroid use and cheating in the past by almost all organizations is fair play. Anyone who thinks their team has not cheated on some level is clearly delusional. Just check out yourteamcheats.com which is a third party objective site that points out all infractions by all organizations.
    ———————————————–

    Stop right there.

    If you think that site (and I’ve gone over this before) is “third party” I’ve got landfill to sell you. Cheap. But seriously, you need to check it out again. The clues are there who’s REALLY running at site, from the fact that the 4 teams listed as “top cheaters” are teams Patriots fans hate the most, to the cute little “spy cam” icons they use.

    And have you read the stuff? There’s so much made-up garbage I thought I was stepping into another universe. Not to mention the timing — yeah as if some “third party” decides to come up with something like that just as Deflategate is breaking. The site’s a sham, dude, designed to apologize for Patriots scandals by trying to drag everyone else down into the mud.

    Still not getting it? OK. “yourteamcheats” — created by Patriots fans, pretending not be Patriot fans.

  245. kingkreg12 says:
    Jul 18, 2015 2:26 AM

    The point here is that I think Patriots fans feel that it is unfair that such harsh penalties are levied against them where other teams skate on similar or the same allegations. Even if it is proven that Brady did knowingly circumvent the rules, how should be feel that’s he’s labeled a cheater when the Vikings and Panthers were warned last year for doing the same thing?? I’m not some delusional dill weed who thinks there is no chance something went down here, but I’m also not some hardo who believes everything a media outlet tells you to believe.
    ——————————————

    No, I think the point here is that Patriot fans feel the need to have other teams — especially previous dynasties — portrayed as “cheaters” to take the heat off themselves and their team right now. That’s why they create phony “third party” sites detailing the supposed wrongdoings of other teams which conveniently arrive in the middle of yet another Patriots cheating scandal.
    That’s why they flood these message boards squawking about Rice and other past greats — one Pats fan even went as far as to make up a fake Bradshaw quote proving he once “apologized for” supposed past steroid use. (I’ve called this guy out several times and he has yet to produce either the actual quote or source).

    Have sports teams always looked for edges and straddled the line or even stepped over it? Of course. Does anyone think what the old Packers, Steelers or 49ers achieved is any less for it? No — except of course for Patriots fans who desperately WANT us all to think that way.

    Frankly I find it kind of disgusting how these hater-apologists are smearing the greats of the past in their attention-deflecting crusade. The Steelers and 49ers dominated their eras because they had superior organizations and players, not because they had one guy put something on his gloves or a couple guys take something.

    You claim you “don’t believe what media outlets tell you” yet you’re willing to take that web site at face value. This leads me to believe you’re either a naive Seahawks fan or a Patriots plant.
    Sorry to sound so suspicious, but such a troll ploy would fit right in to what the New England fan base has been sneaking around doing these days.

    Best wishes to you.

  246. I am fine with you challenging what I wrote, but i also challenged you to do your own research as well. The site could have easily been created by a Pats fan, but i don’t feel it’s to distract or smear any other franchise. I respect what all the organizations have accomplished throughout the years. I do feel it’s naive for you to ignore what they have done to bend the rules in their own ways.

    I still am waiting for the smoking gun to prove Brady said “I want these balls below 12.5 to gain an advantage”. You lumped all that I brought up as distracting from what’s going on. I think we can all agree that there is no distracting from this since it’s everywhere, but do you discount the stickum that Rice used as just common practice even though many came out and were astonished he said that?? I could cite numerous examples but I’ll leave it at that one. You can’t sit here and torch the Pats and not treat every other organization with the same resentment.

  247. Whoever said cheaters never prosper is full of it. Look at the Patriots, they have a dynasty built on cheating and their morally bankrupt fans couldn’t care less.

  248. Hell Yeah! Give back the draft picks… Plus I want to know who began the investigation. (Owners)
    I also want to know which owners that are making Goodell keep the 4 game suspension?
    Bet you those names are the same! So let me get this integrity thing straight?
    You accuse a player of cheating, hire a non-independent arbitrator (5 Mil.) The best he could do is generally aware and more probable than not something happened? Based on text messages from May 2014. Months before the AFCCG…You damn skippy the Pats wants their draft picks back.
    Where does Brady go to get his rep. back? He has no chance with the League’s Kangaroo Court.
    Guess he’ll have to go see Doty or a judge in Mass. somwhere, where 1 + 1 =2

  249. AquaHawk_12 says:Jul 23, 2015 11:15 AM

    Free Jim McNally and John Jastremski, let them speak the truth on deflating!
    —————————————————–
    I see you didn’t read the Wells report either.
    Wells and/ or his Investigators did interview both of them… In fact the wanted McNally again for the 4th time. Ridiculous! Kraft said no, the guy has a fulltime job in the great state of New Hampshire!
    Only the NFL gets two bites at the apple. RE: Wallop the Patriots because they filmed D signs 8 years ago in front of 80,000 people.

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