Judge rules St. Louis can spend tax money on stadium without public vote

AP

A judge in St. Louis has ruled that the city does not need a public vote in order to spend city tax dollars for the construction of a proposed stadium to replace the Edward Jones Dome.

Judge Thomas Frawley agreed with the argument made by the Regional Convention and Sports Complex Authority that the ordinance requiring a vote is invalid because it is too vaguely worded. One point of vagueness was that a new stadium was required to be “adjacent” to an existing convention center, which opponents argued did not apply to the current stadium proposal. Frawley ruled that the two sites did not need to be contiguous to qualify as adjacent.

“‘Adjacent’ has commonly been interpreted by Missouri courts to mean ‘near or close at hand’ and as ‘not necessarily meaning contiguous,’ i.e. not necessarily meaning touching each other or immediately next to each other,” Frawley wrote in his ruling, via the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

The ruling opens the door for the use of city money for a new stadium, although that may not be enough to stop the Rams from pursuing a move to the Inglewood, California stadium proposed by owner Stan Kroenke. It would allow the possibility of landing another team in the event the Rams did depart without hurting the chances of keeping them in town and the league will be holding a meeting next week to discuss stadium issues in St. Louis, San Diego, Oakland and Los Angeles.

70 responses to “Judge rules St. Louis can spend tax money on stadium without public vote

  1. From what I gather, this was the biggest hurdle for St.Louis’ plan to secure the financing. Between this and the Carson project gathering momentum, I wonder what Stan’s next move will be.

  2. Correction…The biggest hurdle is actually coming up with enough money to build it. Their grand plan only covers half the expected cost. Good luck getting Stan to pick up the rest of a stadium he’s not interested in.

  3. “I wonder what Stan’s next move will be.”

    Same as it has always been, get a new stadium in St. Louis and a new Super Walmart in Inglewood.

  4. The biggest problem is that Stan has know obligation to put the Rams in a new stadium even if it is built. He has nine one year options on the dome which is the most owner-friendly lease in the NFL. If he decides to dig in, he simply will begin exercising those options regardless of new stadium development. If that is his tact, the NFL will have to intervene at some point. Best hope for Rams – as macabre as it sounds – is that Broncos owner Pat Bowlen (who is in poor health) – passes and Stan becomes the Broncos owner (consolidating his Denver sports assets while simultaneously solving the cross-ownership exception the NFL has allowed Stan) and a new ownership group emerges in St. Louis.

    Regardless, in StL this can only be considered good news for those wanting to keep the Rams in place.

  5. The main tactic of the Rams is to inflict injury on players of opposing teams. Now the Rams are inflicting injury on the taxpayers of St. Louis.

  6. This is why ALL laws should be required to be written in common sense English. For instance, a law proclaiming murder to be illegal should not be a half page long. Lawyers are ruining this country.

  7. Good! I went to a game at the Edward Jones dome and it wasn’t even like being at a real game. I felt like I was watching arena football or something. They need a real stadium

  8. axespray says:
    Aug 3, 2015 1:59 PM

    Having diehard fans pay $250 for a piece of paper ain’t looking too bad now.

    ———————————————
    Please keep in mind the fake stock is in addition to taxes on all Brown county citizens and not in place of taxes that pay for Lambeau field. Dopes that paid for the stock try to pretend differently but it just is not so.

  9. Rams are moving anyway. This is lost money if they don’t have another team lined up.

  10. Seems like it shouldn’t be up to a lone wolf judge to decide whether the City Elected Officials can approve a Law restricting access to public funds for the purpose of building infrastructure not desired by the majority of the community & that benefits a small portion of the area’s Private Business’. If they are serious about “vigorously defending” the ordinance, then I see this being overturned on appeal.

  11. It wouldn’t be the first time a judge or group of judges made decisions instead of allowing the people to vote on them

  12. erod22 says:
    Aug 3, 2015 1:55 PM

    They were the Cleveland Rams to begin with anyway. Send the Cardinals back to St. Louis.

    ——-

    There, fixed that for you…

  13. I hope no other Judge in any other state follows this precedent. If so, the NFL could pick anywhere to build a billionaire their new play land.

  14. Really…? It should be illegal for a judge to have this much power. This type of issue should definitely come under a referendum for the people of that city to vote yea or nay.

    Why, for example, should a single mother of two have her taxes increased to support something she could care less about.

    I enjoy watching football but people who don’t shouldn’t have to help foot the bills for billionaire owners.

  15. Yet those of us on the left coast can still care less whether or not we get a team/stadium…..

  16. Bottom line: St. Louis is a baseball city. Always has been. Always will be.

    __________________________________

    Bottom line: St. Louis is a SPORTS town.
    Yes, when the Cardinals go on a run like they have since the early 2000’s, the team is going to take the lead in a city. However, they shared the spotlight with the Greatest Show. The Rams have been historically bad, worst runs in NFL history and still draw 55K on avg. Not even LA would support the Rams during this terrible run.

  17. I hope the powers that be make public who each corrupt politician is who votes to GIFT public money to a multibillionaire. I then hope there is a recall vote for each of those who vote for Stan’s free lavish palace.

  18. The people putting the stadiun deal together actually have the people convinced the taxes will come solely from tourists. Nice. Wonder what all the citizens in the mega huge depressed areas around St. Louis think of this. Stan is not going to take one nickel out of his pocket to support the stadiun. He will just keep renewing his lease until the time is right and move on. He has made it pretty clear he wants out if St Louis

    So again, St. Louis will build another stadium not knowing what team will occupy it all the while the Edward Jones dome, which still has another 10 years to be paid off, will sit empty. Oh yeah, the convention people are saying the Dome will make mega bucks in the 10 weeks the Rams will no longer be here. LOL there’s already 44 other weeks it’s available but more then 75% of that time it’s empty. Nice. Glad for the Rams fans but the rest of the citizens just got it up where the sun does not shine.

  19. How does anyone argue that tax dollar should be used to build a billionaire’s business? And all of the revenue goes to the billionaire.

    I love football but I will never support tax dollars to build a sports stadium. Even if my team threatens to move.

    Once again, the rich guys have figured out how to get the public to make the sacrifice while they get richer.

  20. Yep use tax dollars without public approval and then turn around and charge the same tax payers a huge amount of money for PSL’s. Yep nothing wrong with that.

  21. Isn’t this why we have elections every few years? Elected officials will be held accountable.

  22. I can’t imagine St Louis or any other city for that matter having an extra billion dollars laying around, or the credit to borrow it, for building a stadium.

  23. Its not taxation without representation. You have representation in the form of your state legislature, which you voted for and put into power, and the judge, who you voted for and put into power.

    You are responsible for putting these people into power. And for representing you to make these decisions.

    How do we not require civics classes anymore? The only reason “this country is so effed” as a wise poster above had so eloquently put it, is in all actuality because you people don’t understand the power you have and mis use it every chance you get, because you don’t even educate yourselves on the backgrounds of these people, if you even vote at all.

    *sigh…*

  24. If I were a member of the FBI, I would be keeping an eye on this judge’s bank account for the next six months to a year…

  25. “Billion dollar owners holds cities hostage for public money to finance their private ventures. Ain’t capitalism grand!”

    This is not an example of Capitalism….

  26. Why? The Rams are moving in the near future anyway. All the Trolls ragged on Dolphins owner, Steve Ross when he wanted public funding and he lost. So, what does he do? Funds it himself. A great Owner ( helps to be the 2nd richest). Miami is a lock for upcoming Super Bowls and major Soccer Events and Concerts. He will make back his money hand over fist. America it is still the land of opportunity, but it takes money to make big money. Good luck to the people of St.Louis; rock and a hard place being extorted by a Millionaire for your Team.

  27. This move is all to show the NFL that Saint Louis wants to be an NFL city. The leaders have had to set aside their distaste for Kroenke as they know he’s going to do what he wants. But if he does leave despite STL doing everything they can to keep the team, the NFL has to view that positively with regards to replacing the Rams.

  28. They held a public vote to raise taxes to secure funding when they built Heinz Field.
    It was soundly rejected by voters.
    They weasled their way around the law and took it anyway.
    That ended up being known in these parts as “Scam B”.

  29. It wouldn’t be the first time a judge or group of judges made decisions instead of allowing the people to vote on them
    ——-
    That’s exactly what a judges job is! Interpret the law and make rulings. Just because you don’t like the ruling doesn’t make it wrong.

  30. “I still don’t understand the logic behind ‘let me take your hard earned money and do whatever I want with it'”
    ————–

    It’s the result of the “I can spend your money better than you can” mindset.

  31. And how much of a bribe did the owner give him for this ? Knowing full well it would be reimbursed many times over by the corrupt politicians there.

  32. Did you get a vote when the government gave $535 million to a fake company Solyndra?

    The money hasn’t been heard from since.

    Yes I realize that was Federal money, same concept.

    But much worse.

    At least you’ll have a stadium, etc…

    Solyndra money – poofffff gone, no one cares

  33. Or Kroenke could do what Robert Kraft did. Pay for the stadium yourself. Have the municipality do the necessary infrastructure improvements only. Novel concept.

  34. Wow, I’d love know how much this decision Co$t. I’ll guess a nice size suite at the new proposed stadium will be part of it. As always, Follow the Money!

  35. If Kraft is such a bad as some on this site contest, I would rather an owner like him who paid for his own stadium. How can any of you be all right using tax payers money to built a stadium that will make billions of dollars for private absorption. You call yourself a business a capitalist then you put the money up yourself not the tax payers turned into suckers. This may be hard to comprehend but some tax payers have no use for pro football. This is so egregious, how can you say this is alright? Here is an novel idea the banks ask of every customer, make sure the agreement as it is written that the tax payer money, every time with interest, will be paid back every year from the profits of the owners and the NFL. If not your dealing with thieves period!

  36. Master Stan, has never said he is moving the Rams to L.A. with his lips, buying property in Inglewood means nothing, he could sell that property and double his money.

    St. Louis will have an NFL team in spite of the Rams being seduced by another city.

    What team is the big question.

    The Football Cards coming back (if the Rams leave) would rectify a wrong.

    St Louis is a great sports city.

    The Raiders are perfect for L.A. and the Vegas area, they have the biggest fan base in the region.

    If the Chargers force them selves on L.A. that is a lame move, when San Antonio or Portland would give them everything.

    The Chargers would be nothing more than whipping boys for the Raiders and their fans.

    L.A. only needs one football team.

    The Raiders.

  37. Wow, what did you expect from a liberal activist judge?

    I’m 100% sure that he’ll get some donations from the team or stadium management team if the Rams stay.

  38. Please keep in mind the fake stock is in addition to taxes on all Brown county citizens and not in place of taxes that pay for Lambeau field. Dopes that paid for the stock try to pretend differently but it just is not so.
    ______________________________________

    Brown County was only taxed 1/2%. To make up for the remaining money to fund the Stadium renovations. Since GB has no owner to help fund a Stadium, they went forward, with the approval from the NFL owners, to sell stock to the fans. $70,000,000 came from that sale. The remaining money came from that 1/2% tax, The Packer Pro Shop and other money ventures.
    If GB had an owner, the owner would ask for a higher tax, and not just from the county but from the whole state.
    So, the fans of GB didn’t get duped, they are basically supporting their team and their community.
    Every home game brings in so much revenue to this small town, and the people can actually call them, “My Team”
    Small towns all over America support their teams, from little league to their high school sports. Green Bay is no different, other than they play in the NFL.

  39. ncphinsfan says:
    Aug 3, 2015 3:10 PM

    Why? The Rams are moving in the near future anyway. All the Trolls ragged on Dolphins owner, Steve Ross when he wanted public funding and he lost. So, what does he do? Funds it himself. A great Owner ( helps to be the 2nd richest). Miami is a lock for upcoming Super Bowls and major Soccer Events and Concerts. He will make back his money hand over fist. America it is still the land of opportunity, but it takes money to make big money. Good luck to the people of St.Louis; rock and a hard place being extorted by a Millionaire for your Team.
    _____

    I was looking into how the CBA the NFLPA agreed to ties into tax dollars to build a sports stadium. And would like to see some story on it here. I don’t find much as it is. What I wanted to find is what would be the first step in getting public funding out of the CBA.

    What I did find on it…

    “A key stipulation in the NFL’s G4 financing program for contributing to stadium projects, established in the latest collective bargaining agreement, is that public money must be part of the deal. That was not required in the league’s previous program that helped fund the Giants/Jets and Cowboys stadiums”.

    It came from a newspaper article in 2013 over what ncphinsfan posted with Ross. And that must have taking about 2 years of fighting before Ross had to pony up after the state stepped in and overturned any local action on the matter.

    Also on Ross recouping any money back from hosting Super Bowls…

    “Teams don’t profit directly from hosting Super Bowls. They turn the keys over to the NFL.”

  40. In other, completely unrelated news, the courthouse where that judge works is suddenly getting a 100 million dollar upgrade to state-of-the-art facilities…

  41. it’s sad the city knew this day would come 20 years ago and like many other cities they waited til the last minute sooooo sad!! hope it’s not too late.

  42. That sound you hear in the background is “Citizen Action Groups” who will be proving that Judge just how wrong he is.

    No way does this stand as now you have 99% of the city pissed and the 1% remaining hoping they can keep it upheld.

    Laughable

  43. The LA rams dream is coming to an end. 4 months ago the Governor stated the basically that the people who opposed that rams staying had absolutely no power and that they would win in court. if your only hope is the citizen action group then good luck.

  44. Stan has not met the NFL requirements for moving, period. The team has been supported despite being run into the ground since the death of Georgia and the region is willing and able to build a stadium. Keep the team in St. Louis and get rid of Stan.

  45. Don’t care if st Louis keeps the rams or not just don’t my tax dollars from kcmo paying for it.

  46. This is great for St Louis. The filthy rich people had started running vote no ads on local media. In Missouri rich guys buy elections. They got Missouri to pass a law saying felons should be allowed to have guns. So now with this ruling, the city council will decide. The city portion is only $6 million per year. And opposing media have already conceded that the Rams bring $4.2M to city tax coffers per year now. With 2.5% inflation that will pay back all the city money at the end of the 30 year lease. But the city only comes out ahead of the Rams stay. I trust the city council to study the real numbers and realize this is a good deal for the city financially and will vote in the best interest of the citizens.

  47. Stan can move his team anytime he wants..nfl has and will lose this fight in court agaon just like they did to al davis when he moved the raiturds to LA .

  48. logast says:
    Aug 3, 2015 4:01 PM

    Or Kroenke could do what Robert Kraft did. Pay for the stadium yourself. Have the municipality do the necessary infrastructure improvements only. Novel concept.
    —-

    Ummm, yeah…except that is exactly what he is doing now. He is paying for the stadium in LA himself. The reason he is doing that is because by moving the team to L.A., he doubles the value of the team itself, AND he controls 100% of the stadium revenues.

    Even if he gets the stadium paid for in St. Louis, he would not control the revenues, and would have to pay rent. And his team would still be worth less than all the other teams in the league. Moving is the key to raising the value of the team, which makes the investment in the stadium a slam-dunk great opportunity. Sorry to say, but the Rams going back to LA is all about money, and it’s a done-deal. No matter what the NFL says, they cannot stop a businessman from making the best deal for his team. The Ravens and Colts moved without permission, and Stan will do the same thing if he has to. He has a billion reasons to do it.

  49. I’m still confused about what exactly Kroenke can or cannot do but the one thing that really puzzles me as why he calls that roadkill on top of his head a hairpiece. Stan you’re a billionaire, open the wallet and get a decent rug. And drop the 70’s porn stache. What’s next, a hairy chest and gold chains?

  50. Dogsweat says:

    The Chargers would be nothing more than whipping boys for the Raiders and their fans.

    ————————————————————-

    You haven’t been watching football for 12 years if you think anybody is the Raiders whipping boy, let alone the Chargers.

  51. Cities are willing to help finance a billionaire’s team because what it means for the city. A football team drives tourism, jobs, taxes, infrastructure projects, restaurant industry etc. Football/sports is big business no matter how you cut it.

  52. Word to the wise not to be disrespectful, but you all know Stan Kroenke is very powerful and he is bringing The Rams home and its happening our Stadium being built in Inglewood CA is happening get over it already. I’ve been a Cali Rams Girl 4 Life for 40 years not that anyone in St. Louis cares , but I do diehard Rams Girl all day everyday. Cali has rallied to bring back the Rams and were not stopping until they are home. Their better off in Cali then St.Louis at least we don’t have fans here not caring or jumping ship because of a teams move. If anything true Rams will support their team no matter what city their in we did the whole 20 yrs they were in St.Louis so why can’t you ,be supportive of our team not against them or the owner Stan Kroenke is smart and intelligent so stand by him and our team!!! HORNS UP RAMILY GORAMS

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