“Conduct detrimental” vs. “equipment violation” in Brady vs. NFL

AP

The 456-page Tom Brady appeal hearing transcript has now been distilled to a pair of competing 15-page legal briefs aimed at helping the NFL and NFL Players Association persuade Judge Richard M. Berman to squeeze the other side harder when trying to broker a resolution at not one but two upcoming settlement conferences.

For those of you who have read the briefs, the typical reaction is to wonder whether the two parties are writing about entirely different situations. And that’s the way it works in every case. One side crafts a brief that sells its position thoroughly, and the other side crafts a brief that sells its position thoroughly, even though the two thoroughly-sold positions are diametrically opposed.

The challenge in parsing through it all becomes applying common sense and a broader focus to the very narrow sets of facts presented. In Brady’s case, one of the primary questions has become whether the NFL can suspend him for “conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football” based on having “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of” what the Commissioner called “a scheme to tamper with the game balls after they had been approved by the game officials for use in the AFC Championship Game.”

Looking at this one case in isolation and considering the potential impact of a scheme to tamper with game balls on the integrity of the outcome of a game, the NFL’s position makes sense. If a player has “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of” a scheme to tamper with the game balls, the conduct definitely isn’t beneficial to the integrity of the game of professional football, so it must be detrimental to it. And given, as the NFL has argued, that the CBA gives the Commissioner express authority to define conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game and to impose discipline for it, he can basically levy whatever punishment he sees fit.

That would all be fine and dandy (is anything ever dandy without being fine?) if the NFL and NFLPA hadn’t otherwise negotiated a long list of specific rules spelling out specific punishment for a wide variety of situations where player behavior otherwise could be deemed conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game of professional football.

The fine schedule, for example, contains many specific instances of behavior that the Commissioner, given his extremely broad powers, could otherwise deem to be “conduct detrimental.” But the Commissioner can’t, because the NFL already has agreed that only a fine is justified for a first and second offense. (For some finable offenses, a suspension potentially becomes appropriate under the league’s system of progressive discipline.)

Consider this: If a player were caught using stickum to help him catch the footballs thrown by his quarterback (or, to make the facts more aligned with the Brady case, if the player knew that the equipment managers were applying stickum to his gloves for him), would he be committing conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game?

Perhaps, but the NFL already has agreed that the fine for a first offense would be $8,681.

For other uniform and equipment violations, the fine for a first offense is $5,787. The NFLPA consistently has argued that, because the football is the ultimate piece of football equipment, and because Brady received no specific policy informing him that infractions related to the preparation or inflation of the football can result in a suspension, the Commissioner can’t rely on the broad concept of “conduct detrimental” as justification to do whatever he wants.

Under the PED policy, players face a four-game suspension for a first offense for taking any one of a long list of banned substances. What if a new performance-enhancing compound emerges that doesn’t fit on the list? Until the NFL and NFLPA agree to put it on the list and then notify the players of its addition, the player can’t be suspended for it, because it’s not on the agreed list.

Is it conduct detrimental to the interests of the game of professional football to take the cutting-edge substance? Yes. Can the Commissioner fairly and properly do anything about it? No.

To the extent that the Commissioner has compared Brady’s conduct to a PED violation (and not a stickum violation), the deflation concept is more like a new PED than an old-school steroid, because the NFL has admitted that it had no prior sensitivity to the science of football inflation and deflation, including the fairly obvious concept that air pressure drops in cold weather. The league likewise had a historically nonchalant and lackadaisical process for checking football inflation and securing the game balls prior to kickoff, along with a grossly incomplete impromptu procedure for testing 11 of the footballs used by the Patriots at halftime and four of the footballs used by the Colts, with no records created regarding the temperature of the room, the sequence in which the balls were tested, and the specific time each ball was tested.

Basically, the NFL hopes to use “conduct detrimental” as a catch-all donut hole, taking advantage of the absence of a policy that specifically spells out a fine for football deflation to paint with a broad brush (and to discipline without accountability) when the many policies negotiated by the NFL and NFLPA over the years, from the fine schedule to the PED policy to the substance-abuse policy to the Personal Conduct Policy to the various other policies under which players can be disciplined, say nothing about a suspension for knowing about, having involvement in, or personally carrying out a scheme to deflate footballs.

So even if Brady did it, the NFLPA contends he can’t be suspended for it. While P.R. considerations prevent the union from putting it quite that way, that’s the crux of the argument. And given the many limitations on what otherwise would be the ability of the Commissioner to cry “conduct detrimental!” and impose whatever punishment he sees fit at that moment, the NFLPA’s argument has plenty of merit.

224 responses to ““Conduct detrimental” vs. “equipment violation” in Brady vs. NFL

  1. There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. You either believe that nothing happened, because you live in New England, or you believe that this has been going on for years, because people don’t call themselves “the Deflator” back in 2014 because they’re trying to lose weight.

    A better analogy would be discovering that the equipment managers were applying stickum to the star receiver’s gloves and had been for years. This is the first time you’ve actually caught them, but you have credible reason to believe it’s been going on for a long time.

  2. Has anyone’s conduct been more detrimental to the league in this matter than Roger Goodell’s?

    No. So is it time for the commissioner to suspend himself?

  3. What does the CBA say about refusing to cooperate with an internal investigation, and also destroying potential evidence in said investigation after being asked to supply said potential evidence?

  4. I think of an equipment violation as wearing the wrong colored shoes (like Marshawn Lynch did).

    If this happened, then it was a systematic plan in place to decieve and cheat to gain an advantage that happened to include equipment.

    Allthough equiement was involved, it was the alleged system of cheating that he is being punished for.

    Can a player bring a baseball bat on the field and start swinging and knocking people out, and then just claim “I brought the wrong equipment on the field, it should only be a $25,000 fine”.

    The conduct behind the equipment is what is being punished here.

  5. Brady opened himself up to perjury charge if he lied and yet he denied every allegation. If the two equipment guys come forward now and admit their guilt and accuse Brady, Tom would face a felony charge.

    Wells invoked attorney/client priviledge

  6. vikingsmandotdie says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:04 AM
    I am really really sick of this story Mr. Brady stop being a freaking little girl and take your 4 games like a man!

    ————

    Yep. I’m sure that’s what you would do if you were facing a $2M fine.

  7. So possible ball deflation is a felony punishable by millions in fines, a suspension of a player who might have been generally aware of it and a loss of draftpicks by his team, while being caught red-handed (no pun intended) using stickum is a a few grand fine, and heating balls on the sideline merits a warning?

    I’m sure Judge Berman will think that makes perfect sense.

  8. someidiotsays:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:02 AM
    “The cheating will continue as long as Belecheat is in the league.”

    You are aware they have all of Belichick’s texts and phone records right? Found zero evidence of cheating.

  9. “bonniebengal says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:03 AM
    The rule says including BUT NOT LIMITED TO a $25,000 fine.”

    That’s a team penalty. Not a player penalty.

  10. Based on outright lies by league, and a junk “independent” report. Free Brady Now.

  11. The league’s handling of this entire fiasco fits the definition of conduct detrimental. What a clown show.

  12. Goodell is an out of control, overpaid PR boy who was born with a silver spoon up his entitled azz. When you look at Paul Tagliabue and Pete Rozelle you have to ask yourself how he hell we got here with this clown. He is terrible and he and his clown car front office on Park Ave are destroying the game.

  13. Well said, Mike. There’s only one flaw with this whole argument:

    The NFL has NOT PROVEN that even a single football was intentionally deflated, given the Ideal Gas Law.

    How can Brady be guilty of “conduct detrimental to the NFL”, is there was NO INFRACTION????

    Anything else – lack of cooperation, etc. – is just window dressing for the poor investigation/witch hunt, that the NFL has conducted.

  14. jchipwood says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:02 AM
    The cheating will continue as long as Belecheat is in the league.

    —————–

    So I guess you will have to deal with it for a long time.

  15. I thought it was already addressed in the NFL rules that if a team got caught tampering with any equipment the TEAM could face up to a $25,000 fine.

    Why are they making up new rules for Brady?

  16. Idiot haters with nothing better to do except ignore the facts

    – zero proof that ANY game in NFL history has been played with properly inflated balls
    – equipment violations fall upon the team not the player and has never resulted in a suspension
    -1st offense conduct detriment does not include suspension
    – there is zero evidence Brady did anything wrong

    All there is is a bunch of jealous fans of loser football teams

  17. Guilty in the court of public opinion. Not guilty in the court of NFL Fandom. I believe he is 100% guilty of tampering with the balls and yet he is 100% innocent of “cheating” which would be gaining a significant advantage. So, settle, 2 game suspension. DONE.

  18. Jets 100% tampered with the kicking balls in 2009. $25,000 fine.

    Brady more probable than not” tampered with a football. 1,000,0000 dollar fine, loss of 1st and 4th round draft picks and a 4 game suspension.

    Even the intellgent Pareiot haters have to see the witch hunt.

  19. Jchipwood, your arguments are getting old. Brady is the greatest and the Pats the greatest dynasty. Deal with it and tell your Broncos friends the same.

  20. Anyone notice……Goodell had Kraft forced off the Viacom board of directors (via CBS). The Commissioner will punish all who interfere with this monopoly

  21. No, it’s more like…

    Ideal gas law vs tampering

    Then….

    We have no proof so let’s change it to cooperation vs non cooperation

    Then…

    Colts, jets, and ravens owners are crying that they can’t beat the Pats, so let’s just punish them because we don’t like them

    Bottom line, something was done to the balls but they have no proof. Something is done to all balls with every team and QB but the league doesn’t care unless it’s the patriots. Brady did not cooperate and destroyed his phone. Punishment is too hard based on CBA and past examples. Crowd noise illegally pumped in when the visiting team has the ball for 1.5 years by the Falcons gets a cash fine and a 5th round pick? But non cooperation gets a 1, $1 mil, 4 game suspension?

    Rodgers purposely overinflated his balls on record.

    Mark Schlereth on record for john elway, wiped the balls with a wet rag, scrubbed them with a brush for 30 minutes, then put them in the dryer.

    Offensive lineman put silicon gel on their jerseys so the defense can’t grab them as easy.

    The wide receivers have gloves that are so tacky, it’s like stickum and they are legal.

    Jerry rice is on record using stickum…”everyone was doing it.”

    Please just end this witch hunt and get on to the season

  22. So if a Home Run king in baseball gets using a corked bat for an entire season, then that is just an “Equipment Violation”

  23. conormacleod says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:08 AM
    What does the CBA say about refusing to cooperate with an internal investigation, and also destroying potential evidence in said investigation after being asked to supply said potential evidence?

    Nothing. You can’t be punished for that.

  24. conormacleod says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:08 AM
    What does the CBA say about refusing to cooperate with an internal investigation, and also destroying potential evidence in said investigation after being asked to supply said potential evidence?
    _________________________________________

    you mean like the cell phone that Ted Wells did not want?

  25. “conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football”
    ___________________________

    This sounds like what Goodell is guilty of

  26. judge:

    Mr. Goodell, please explain to me how is it that you feel qualified to give both a fair ruling and an appeal verdict, when in multiple instances you have been clearly UNTRUTHFUL in statements of fact that YOU CLAIM to be important to your decisions?

    These include, but are not limited to.
    -your assertion of the alleged independence of Mr. Wells
    -your mischaracterization of Mr. Brady’s s testimony
    -your much-belated determination that NFL review and/or possession on Mr.Brady’s phone was essential to his defense
    -the incorrect assertions about “11 of 12 footballs” leaked from your organization, left uncorrected for months, when you PERSONALLY would have had the knowledge and ability to correct the record

    This court does not look kindly upon persons coming before it who are serially untruthful

    What say you, Mr. Goodell?

  27. gabrosin says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:06 AM
    There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. You either believe that nothing happened, because you live in New England, or you believe that this has been going on for years, because people don’t call themselves “the Deflator” back in 2014 because they’re trying to lose weight.

    A better analogy would be discovering that the equipment managers were applying stickum to the star receiver’s gloves and had been for years. This is the first time you’ve actually caught them, but you have credible reason to believe it’s been going on for a long time.

    Okay, why were the balls in the game vs the Jets pumped up to 16 psi then?

  28. truthfactory says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:09 AM
    I think of an equipment violation as wearing the wrong colored shoes (like Marshawn Lynch did).

    If this happened, then it was a systematic plan in place to decieve and cheat to gain an advantage that happened to include equipment.

    Allthough equiement was involved, it was the alleged system of cheating that he is being punished for.

    Can a player bring a baseball bat on the field and start swinging and knocking people out, and then just claim “I brought the wrong equipment on the field, it should only be a $25,000 fine”.

    The conduct behind the equipment is what is being punished here.

    —————–

    How does assaulting players with a baseball bat like a lunatic have anything to do with PSI.

    This case is far closer to a sticker violation then anything else and I would argue has much less impact on the game.

  29. Brady’s reputation is ruined. That’s the way it is, and nothing is going to change that now.

    IF he were to have his suspension lifted…can you even imagine the booing–on national TV–that Brady will receive in those first two road games? This man is utterly vilified. Pat fans can continue to stick their heads in the same and yell “GOAT” and it won’t change a thing.

    He bent the rules…as a member of a team already considered shady…and his “legend” is tarnished.

    Too bad, so sad. Should have thought of that before he had someone doctor the balls. There are worse things than losing…and being known first and foremost as a cheat tops that list.

  30. Ignoring all the lies and deceits from the NFL for a minute, this is what happened:

    1) Goodell orders investigation.
    2) Based on that investigation + Troy Vincent’s recommendations Goodell decides guilty of “general awareness”.
    3)Later at appeal, based on that very same investigation, Goodell decides Brady actually did far, far worse, and actively participated as he “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements”.

    Absolutely nothing changed between 2 and 3, except for legal people pointing out “general awareness” was utter nonsense.

    How do you spell RAILROADED?

  31. 7 months of Goo dell moving the goalposts because nothing he throws at the wall ever sticks. Now he’s saying that, despite calling Wells report independent, it doesn’t matter that it was not independent. Goodell constantly changing the argument and accusations to maintain his PR image says everything you need to know.

  32. vikingsmandotdie says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:04 AM
    I am really really sick of this story Mr. Brady stop being a freaking little girl and take your 4 games like a man!

    +++++++++

    I am writing to inform you that you are banned from watching any NFL games for the first 4 weeks of the season for conduct detrimental to being a responsible fan.

    I appointed my cat Willie as an independent investigator and he agrees with me that your behaviour is egregious.

    There is no right of further appeal (you had one already), you cannot see the evidence we obtained against you far less question it.

    Now man up and go watch a movie and contemplate how you have brought NFL fanship into question and mend your ways and be grateful we are not making you watch the Packers for the whole season!

  33. The 15 page NFL submission also states the NFL is not obligated to conduct “independent” investigations despite their public proclamations of an independent investigation. Goodell moving the goal posts once again.

  34. There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that he “approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of” what the Commissioner called “a scheme to tamper with the game balls.” None. And if there was, Goodell would have stated that in the initial ruling to suspend, not come up with it as a way to get himself out of the hole he’s dug for himself. This was a power play, a conspiracy by the NFL, and a cover-up. And every player in the NFL had better take heed because Goodell may be coming to get you next.

  35. vikingsmandotdie says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:04 AM
    I am really really sick of this story Mr. Brady stop being a freaking little girl and take your 4 games like a man!
    __________________________________
    I guess I will be the one to break it to you: YOU are the one whining here. Nobody makes you read these stories. And I think you have “Man” and “Little girl” confused. Where I come from a “Man” defends his name if he has been wrongly accused and fights against an unjust authority. A “Little girl” whines about inconveniences they can actually resolve for themselves.

  36. This whole thing is a giant mess. Everyone involved could have handled it much better.

    Rather than people continuing to take one side or the other and then vehemently defending it, it would be better to see people express dissatisfaction with everyone involved to put more pressure on them to get this over with for the good of the game at large.

    Figure it out and get it over with so we can all move on.

  37. @bonniebengal the rule you quote about “including but not limited to a $25,000 fine” applies to teams, not players. Look it up. The NFL couldn’t demonstrate that tampering occurred, and certainly didn’t come close to showing Brady had any knowledge of such tampering if it did occur.

    As Florio points out, the legal arguments regarding whether the NFL has the authority to suspend a player for being “at least generally aware of improper activity” are convincing and persuasive. I found this exchange between Vincent and Kessler most telling:

    Kessler: you will see that Mr. Rodgers was quoted as saying, “I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.”
    Do you see that?
    Vincent: Yes.
    Q. Did you or anyone in your office conduct any investigation of Mr. Rodgers for making that statement?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. Would you agree with me that if Mr. Rodgers was pushing the limit of how much air could be in a football, that that would be him at least being generally aware of activities to try to violate the NFL rules regarding pressure for footballs?
    A. The way I’m reading, this is a post-game comment and there is no need for us to react or overreact.
    Q. So this was not important enough for you to react to Mr. Rodgers saying he liked to push the limit and see if officials caught it; that was not a serious thing for you to react?
    A. In a post-game interview. Because if the testing of the games (sic) pre-game and all balls were in regulation, there is no need for us to react for post-game comment.
    Q. So in your view, Mr. Rodgers not even being investigated and Mr. Brady being suspended for four games for allegedly being generally aware of someone else’s activities, you think that’s a consistent treatment, in your mind?
    A. This is a post-game comment.

    If anyone with a brain reads that exchange it’s impossible to believe the NFL has applied its rules (or, as it turns out, lack of rules) fairly in the Brady case.

  38. Brady is being railroaded and it’s very clear if you’ve bothered to even pay the slightest attention to this story. I understand people want this to go away, but the NFL has got to be proven wrong here. Even if ultimately overturned pats will still lose valuable picks for no proven reason. That should keep you anti pats people happy. In a few years Brady will be gone and the hoody too and you all can have your chance to win. Shame the NFL has slanted the story to tarnish Brady like this. No matter what still top 3 qb of all time.

  39. Great clarification of the issues. Goodell has overstepped his authority again. The NFL front office is doing it’s best to save face for failing to have a defined process for properly inflated footballs.

  40. gabrosin says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:06 AM
    There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. You either believe that nothing happened, because you live in New England, or you believe that this has been going on for years, because people don’t call themselves “the Deflator” back in 2014 because they’re trying to lose weight.

    A better analogy would be discovering that the equipment managers were applying stickum to the star receiver’s gloves and had been for years. This is the first time you’ve actually caught them, but you have credible reason to believe it’s been going on for a long time.
    _______________________________

    You do understand that even in the case that you outline that it would be a fine of $8,681, not a 4 game unpaid suspension (costing the player $1,882,352 – I googled it) and a $1,000,000 fine plus losses of 1st and 4th round picks by the team.

    So are you agreeing that the punishment is way, way, way over the top?

  41. It’s the denial and the perceived coverup. You can’t plea bargain without admitting guilt in a criminal court of law. I still can’t understand why he didn’t just look the camera in the eye the day after the playoff game and just say “The ballboys know that I prefer the football to be on the softer side, and if they felt the ball wasn’t soft enough they were dropping the pressure a little bit by feel as a matter of course before the games. They were only doing that to make sure the ball was to my liking, we didn’t realize that was a rules violation, sorry about that, it won’t happen again, if the league feels it’s necessary to fine me, I’ll pay.”

  42. the NFLPA’s argument has plenty of merit

    Not really, you just like playing the lemmings for all you can.

  43. “There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. ”

    Actually, the texts published in the Wells Report make it quite clear that it wasn’t happening in October when the Jets game took place (and six months after the “deflator” text [which doesn’t say anything about post-inspection deflation anyway])…

  44. Has anyone’s conduct been more detrimental to the league in this matter than Roger Goodell’s?
    ——————-

    The owners are making more money under Goodell’s watch than ever before due to his expansion of the brand.

    And he’s decided that players who, cheat, beat their children or knock out their wife with a roundhouse in an elevator need to be punished swiftly and severely to not tarnish the brand. Seems like he’s doing a pretty decent job to me.

  45. I love the people who claim “take your punishment like a man.”

    Tom is excercising his rights per the CBA; everyone should expect that is NORMAL behavior.

    Not one person writing here would accept the loss of 25 % of your wage no questions asked. I am glad they are asking questions because as Florio’s analyses point out, it is equally probable that Tom never said anything other than “I like the ball at the minimum pressure allowed by the rules.”

    the physics of the situation makes his story plausible.

    the greatest judicial error in our society is to jail someone who is innocent. I expect the same standard to apply to collectively bargained penalties as well. Since it is not clear cut, the correct action is to drop the suspension. the team penalty is sufficient.

  46. When does the NFL Office get investigated for “conduct detrimental” to the league?

  47. “is anything ever dandy without being fine?”

    Yes! If Berman rules that there should be no fine for Brady (and no suspension), that would be dandy.

  48. The NFL league office is at this point worthy of contempt. The very idea that they could find someone “guilty” of having “‘approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of’ a scheme” without any testimony or direct evidence of the scheme, and in the face of strong statistical counter-arguments, is shocking and un-American. Even if it the scheme did exist (which I don’t believe it did), I believe that the commissioner’s actions since then have been far worse and much more damaging to to the NFL. He has willfully denied the kind of due process Americans expect under the law, his agents have conducted a PR-relations designed smear campaign to make Brady look bad, he has misrepresented Brady’s testimony in his appeal finding, and now we find that he lied the numerous times he publicly described Wells as an independent investigator. Goodell must go.

    If, after reading this, you think I’m a homer coot, think about this fact: there’s a very good chance that the data collected this year on football PSI will confirm what many scientists and statisticians have already stated: that the deflation found in the Patriots footballs was normal under the game conditions that night. What then?

  49. If anyone with a brain reads that exchange it’s impossible to believe the NFL has applied its rules (or, as it turns out, lack of rules) fairly in the Brady case.
    —————-

    When will you Pats fans get this through your head? It’s been explained over and over and over and you still feel the need to ignore it.

    Rodgers said that they push the limits because the refs always let air out of the balls during the testing process.

    This happens BEFORE the refs inspect the balls. Brady’s deflation happened AFTER the balls were inspected.

    Notice the difference?

  50. Simple questions why wasn’t Farve suspended for his cell phone violations and failure to cooperate?
    Why did the league only fine the Chargers for ball tampering and being evasive? Did they investigate? Did they hire Ted Wells? Did they ask Rivers for his phone or what he knew?

  51. This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.

    Then all of a sudden it will again be the “Patriot Way” of “I want to move on and put this behind me and for the good of the team and the NFL I will serve my four game suspension.”

    Thus far Brady has been lying through his teeth with zero consequences or repercussions.

  52. Troy Vincent didn’t do the NFL any favors with his awful testimony.

    Also, how did the referees escape scot-free from this mess?

  53. When does the NFL Office get investigated for “conduct detrimental” to the league?
    ————-

    When they do nothing about teams cheating in the NFL. In spygate they were warned by the NFL to stop doing it and they continued to thumb their nose at the league and knock it off. They made their own bed.

    In this situation, there was plenty of evidence to suspect cheating and they failed to cooperate fully in the investigation. And then your buffoon owner tried to say it was related to weight loss. LOL

  54. mborz says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:25 AM
    This whole thing is a giant mess. Everyone involved could have handled it much better.

    Rather than people continuing to take one side or the other and then vehemently defending it, it would be better to see people express dissatisfaction with everyone involved to put more pressure on them to get this over with for the good of the game at large.

    Figure it out and get it over with so we can all move on.

    ———————————————-

    Wells took four months to run his investigation. Goodell took 35 days to render his appeal ruling. Now that it’s Brady’s turn to fight back, it’s time to move on?

  55. The only person whose conduct is detrimental to the integrity and public confidence in the fairness of the game….is Goodell. Goodell has destroyed the meaning of the word “integrity”!

  56. Ralphie says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:16 AM

    Goodell is an out of control, overpaid PR boy who was born with a silver spoon up his entitled azz. When you look at Paul Tagliabue and Pete Rozelle you have to ask yourself how he hell we got here with this clown. He is terrible and he and his clown car front office on Park Ave are destroying the game.
    _________________________________
    We got here because, not only is the commissioner an embarrassment, but there are 32 owners that care more about dollars and cents than right or wrong.

    Shame on them for allowing this charade!!!

  57. thevoice0freason says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:26 AM

    Kessler: you will see that Mr. Rodgers was quoted as saying, “I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it.”
    Do you see that?
    Vincent: Yes.
    Q. Did you or anyone in your office conduct any investigation of Mr. Rodgers for making that statement?
    A. No, sir.
    Q. Would you agree with me that if Mr. Rodgers was pushing the limit of how much air could be in a football, that that would be him at least being generally aware of activities to try to violate the NFL rules regarding pressure for footballs?
    A. The way I’m reading, this is a post-game comment and there is no need for us to react or overreact.
    Q. So this was not important enough for you to react to Mr. Rodgers saying he liked to push the limit and see if officials caught it; that was not a serious thing for you to react?
    A. In a post-game interview. Because if the testing of the games (sic) pre-game and all balls were in regulation, there is no need for us to react for post-game comment.
    Q. So in your view, Mr. Rodgers not even being investigated and Mr. Brady being suspended for four games for allegedly being generally aware of someone else’s activities, you think that’s a consistent treatment, in your mind?
    A. This is a post-game comment.

    If anyone with a brain reads that exchange it’s impossible to believe the NFL has applied its rules (or, as it turns out, lack of rules) fairly in the Brady case.
    —————————————–

    It probably wouldn’t have mattered if they tried to do anything.

    The NFL would likely pick a December home game for the Packers, and wait until halftime, by which time the footballs would be “deflated” because of the cold, and the NFL would declare that there was nothing wrong.

  58. If the NFL had any clue about how the leather footballs react to the environment, or if they even cared in the slightest about the football,
    they would have had something in the CBA about it.

    What was the punishment levied against the Vikings team or players for them warming up footballs on the sidelines?
    1st and 4th round pick, player suspended for 4 games? 5 million dollar investigation into who ordered it?

    Was that incident not as bad because it was done in front of the entire stadium, viewable to everyone?
    Wait, weren’t defensive signals seen by everyone in the stadium, too?
    That “spying” resulted in loss of 1st round pick.

    Besides this, there is still a right to a fair hearing per the CBA, and Brady did not get that.
    The NFL argument- paraphrasing-
    is that it doesn’t matter the NFL made serious errors in the process, and it doesn’t matter if the investigation wasn’t independent.
    The commissioner is allowed to do whatever he wants, period!

  59. Why is it that the fans of the teams who stink year after year seem to have the biggest axe to grind here? Never mind, we already know….

  60. Can Patriot Haters just take a step back for a minute.

    Look at this objectively. If this were happening to ANY other player/team in the league, NO ONE WOULD CARE. Seriously. It has already happened to high profile QB’s like Aaron Rodgers. No one cares.

    Since the Pats have had such success, people don’t like them.

    This is similar in to A-Rod’s suspension (with the major exception that he ACTUALLY did cheat). People are looking for ANY way to accuse and punish this man for something that MAY have happened. Not even something he did.

    The worst part about this is, after research, it has been proven that the weather may be the culprit in this case.

    Why would anyone “accept the punishment” for something they had nothing to do with?

    If your friend was driving a car, and was pulled over for speeding, even though he wasn’t speeding, would you offer to, not only accept the ticket, but to PAY for it? You know you would be at the courthouse fighting what actually happened as the police officer had abused their power.

    Goodell was grasping at straws here. He keeps claiming that he is trying to do what is best for all of the owners. It’s not about doing what is best for ALL of the owners, as none of their teams are being accused of anything wrong. He needs to handle every case as it occurs and should have realized that the complaints he received from the other teams were founded, but easily explained with research.

  61. John Dowd from CNN and who investigated Pete Rose wrote a great article called.

    “Was Tom Brady Ambushed?”

    everyone should google this and read it. I hope Judge Berman sees it the same way as this guy. He actually should have looked at this case instead of Goodell.

  62. Thevoice, your reposting of Kessler and Vincent’s comments about Aaron Rogers proves two things, Brady is desperate and 1000 percent proof that Brady preferred under inflated balls. He submitted two in the AFCCG.

  63. lostsok says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:20 AM
    Brady’s reputation is ruined. That’s the way it is, and nothing is going to change that now.

    IF he were to have his suspension lifted…can you even imagine the booing–on national TV–that Brady will receive in those first two road games? This man is utterly vilified. Pat fans can continue to stick their heads in the same and yell “GOAT” and it won’t change a thing.
    —-

    Those same people would have been booing him anyway.

    This is what people like you don’t get. I DOES NOT MATTER what people outside of NE think. They don’t buy the merchandise they don’t buy the tickets. So yes pats fans can still yell “GOAT” because it’s true, and no matter how much typing and booing fans of other teams do it won’t change that. And when he is a first ballet HOFer they can still boo and stomp there feet.

    Anyone and I mean anyone who thinks this is a big deal is out of there mind. Lets suspended a guy for 4 games because he MAY know something was POSSIBLY done.

    2009 the jets equipment guy was CAUGHT tampering with the kicking balls after inspecting. Do you think the kicker was “generally aware “??

    The equipment guy was suspended for the rest of the season. NOTHING happened to the kicker.

  64. The biggest question in all of this mess is who will present the Super Bowl 50 MVP trophy to Brady? The NEW Commissioner or an ACTING/INTERIM one?

  65. I wonder if the NFLPA will be able to show Chris Mortensens original tweet as well as that letter from Gardi, to show that this process was not fair from the beginning.

  66. Nope who’s been lying Goodell
    Ted Wells will be an unbiased investigator but it is ok that the law firm that employs Wells is on retainer with the league
    The erroneous report of the balls being short by 2lbs/psi was allowed to sit and fester for 6 months til the league finally contradicted it
    We won’t suspend you as there is precedent for being uncooperative and cell phone in fractions ( they fined Brett Farve) so they suspend Brady?
    There is no record of any one involved with the NFL and the 3 law firms it employed in this matter telling Brady he’d face an obstruction charge if he didn’t hand over his phone
    I could go on and on the liars here are the NFL

  67. 28 Lashes All Day says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:36 AM

    If anyone with a brain reads that exchange it’s impossible to believe the NFL has applied its rules (or, as it turns out, lack of rules) fairly in the Brady case.
    —————-

    When will you Pats fans get this through your head? It’s been explained over and over and over and you still feel the need to ignore it.

    Rodgers said that they push the limits because the refs always let air out of the balls during the testing process.

    This happens BEFORE the refs inspect the balls. Brady’s deflation happened AFTER the balls were inspected.

    Notice the difference?
    ———————————————

    What difference does it make if there is an intent to break the rules?

    So, if Tom Brady had said that he likes to under-inflate the footballs before the refs inspect them, to see if they get through, the Hater Faithful would have been good with that?

    Hell no they wouldn’t.

    Aaron Rodgers comment showed an ongoing conspiracy to circumvent the rules, which is what they claim the Patriots were doing.

  68. rutledge3197 says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:38 AM
    The football is NOT equipment ….. It’s THE tool that drives the game itself…. Without it there is no game….. Again NOT equipment

    Wrong.
    In the players manual the FOOTBALL is listed a EQUIPMENT.

  69. Then why weren’t the Colts investigated? They had under inflated balls to. By witness accounts 3 out of 4 were checked and underinflated

  70. Brady opened himself up to perjury charge if he lied and yet he denied every allegation. If the two equipment guys come forward now and admit their guilt and accuse Brady, Tom would face a felony charge.
    —————————————————————————

    You seem to be under the mistaken impression that The Ginger is a cop and Brady committed an actual crime. While the Ginger may think he is, he’s not

  71. citizenstrange says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:39 AM
    This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.

    Then all of a sudden it will again be the “Patriot Way” of “I want to move on and put this behind me and for the good of the team and the NFL I will serve my four game suspension.”

    Thus far Brady has been lying through his teeth with zero consequences or repercussions.

    ———————————————-

    Brady ALREADY testified under oath. Guess that theory’s no good, huh?
    Next.

  72. Unfortunately there’s no solid proof that the Colts tampered with the Patriots footballs

    What IS clear is that Goodell has CERTAINLY been engaging in conduct detrimental to the League

    We need to hold ALL OWNERS ACCOUNTABLE

    They have created a culture of slander and lies by allowing Goodell* to remain as commissioner

  73. There is a HUGE difference between having improperly inflated balls BEFORE the ref’s test them than AFTER they are tested and then deflated.

    IT’S REALLY NOT THAT HARD PATSIES!!!

  74. citizenstrange says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:39 AM

    This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.

    Then all of a sudden it will again be the “Patriot Way” of “I want to move on and put this behind me and for the good of the team and the NFL I will serve my four game suspension.”

    Thus far Brady has been lying through his teeth with zero consequences or repercussions.
    —————————————–

    Tom Brady testified under oath at the appeal hearing.

    Anything else you need debunked?

  75. 11 of 12 footballs under 2 PSI
    Ballboy tried to introduce illegal kicking ball
    All Colts balls at proper PSI
    One Patriots ball was found to be at 10.1 PSI
    PSI of balls at Jets game 16 PSI
    “Can we have your phone?”
    “No”…
    “That’s fine, since it’s clear the NFLPA and you lawyers would advise you not to”
    “Surprise, we’re now punishing for not turning over your phone, and I will no longer believe anything you say from this point forward because of that.”
    “I did not believe Brady only talked about football preparation with Jastremski as he claimed, and that’s part of why I upheld the punishment.”
    Brady under oath-“I talked about the deflation allegations and football preparation with Jastremski.”
    “We will have an outside firm conduct an independent investigation.”
    “Surprise, it wasn’t independent after all, but so what, because CBA and reasons.”

    Oh there’s some scheming going on alright, but it’s becoming pretty clear who the schemers really are.

  76. “This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.”

    Sigh. You always have to wonder, reading through these comment threads, how many of the people making the comments have actually looked at any of the evidence. This person clearly hasn’t.

    Brady. Testified. Under. Oath.

    Brady was under oath, facing the pains and penalties of perjury, at his appeal hearing in New York. At his and his attorney’s suggestion/request. He was under oath. He denied everything. The NFL has no evidence – none, zip, zero, nada – that anything he said – UNDER OATH – was false. No evidence. None. Not hard evidence. No circumstantial evidence. Nothing. Just an assumption that he lied because they assume that something that they can’t prove happened happened, and infer that it wouldn’t have happened without his knowledge. That is it, the sum total of the case for Brady’s guilt. It is nonsense.

    I can understand why fans of rival teams would love to see him miss games. But I can’t understand anyone who has actually looked at all the evidence thinking that this has been a fair process or that a suspension would be a fair result.

  77. Also, how did the referees escape scot-free from this mess?
    ———————————————————————–

    Exactly!!! Rule 2.1 states that the balls must remain under the supervision of the Referee until handed to the ball attendant right before game time. How is it that Anderson was able to lose track of where the balls were for 15 minutes “remaining under the Referee’s supervision”? Seems no one has ever asked why Anderson failed to do his job

  78. Sounds to me like Goodell is pushing conduct detrimental, so that he can use it for every single player infraction. It could be argued that any violation is detrimental to the game.

  79. nhpats says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:52 AM

    Why is it that the fans of the teams who stink year after year seem to have the biggest axe to grind here? Never mind, we already know….
    ———————————-

    And how do these executives of a failed franchise, the Jets, get such high positions in the league office?

    I guess we are seeing first hand why the Jets have been so terrible all these years.

  80. I honestly don’t believe that Tom Brady did anything. It’s all opinion at this point. In any case, one thing that is NOT opinion is that Roger Goodell and the NFL office make up rules as they go along. They are not professional in any sense.

  81. citizenstrange says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:39 AM
    This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.

    Thus far Brady has been lying through his teeth with zero consequences or repercussions.

    =========
    This is what you may believe to be the case. But this is a public accusation, a trial of sorts, and what matters is not individual faith but actual evidence.

    So: show me one instance where Brady has been shown to have lied in this investigation. And don’t say “About knowing about the balls being deflated” since that is exactly what is in question here.

    By contrast, we can point to multiple instances where we can absolutely verify that the NFL has lied or acted in a duplicitous manner:

    1) Leaking false or misleading information and then not correcting it (balls 2 PSI under, Pats tried to introduce illegal kicking ball into game, Brady offered settlement with 1 game suspension)
    2) Wells report: most obviously ignoring Anderson’s recollection on which gauge he used, ignoring question of when balls were tested, ignoring post-game measurements (among many other things)
    3) Denying that it was a sting operation
    4) Telling Brady they didn’t need his phone and then claiming his suspension was due to not handing it over
    5) Claiming that Wells investigation was independent
    6) Goodell blatantly lying in his report, claiming that Brady said that he never talked about investigation with Jastremski in post-deflategate phone conversations

    That’s just off the top of my head. None of this is in doubt and it constitutes proof of a corrupt investigation. Yet you claim that it is Brady who is lying? Again: give me some clear evidence.

  82. So Rodgers admits to ball tampering? Ok why is he not being investigated?
    Also ball tampering is legal in some cases. When a football comes out of the box baseballs are like this to both balls are like ice cubes. You cannot grip it so the league allows some tampering to wear the ball in so it can be gripped

  83. Everything rests on the assumption that the Patriots tampered with the footballs which is absolutely not a certainty no matter what side you are on. A blogger backpicks.com has done considerable research on the subject and he concludes bias or incompetence in the Exponent study for these reasons:

    Failing to account for halftime measurements despite knowing time of measurement is critical

    Switching to an (unnecessarily) extremely low temperature projection for the Patriot Logo gauge

    Misting footballs to simulate rain (and immediately toweling them off)

    Not publishing the actual PSI differences between halftime measurements and expected measurements

    Assuming the Colt balls are measured improbably early in the locker room period, and not considering later measurement times

    Presenting Figure completely false transient curves, thereby altering their conclusions vis-a-vis the Logo gauge

    Incorrectly claiming the pre-game indoor temperature of 67 degrees is a best-case for the Patriots.

    Not considering wetness as an explanation for the few tenths difference despite finding a few tenths difference from wetness.

    With these questionable testing procedures, the best Exponent can conclude that it is more probable than not that tampering occurred and the unexplained amount of PSI lost even with the controversial assumptions is LESS than .4 PSI in the most extreme case!! Change the assumptions and you change the results.

    The question is not about texts, nicknames, or what is on cell phones. It is whether a part-time over weight elderly man had the dexterity to not only take out 12 footballs put them on the bathroom floor and deflate them and repack them in 100 seconds AND have the unique ability to let the precise amount of air out of the footballs to equal what the PSI would be at halftime equal to the ideal gas law on a cold and rainy day. In other words he did what is NOT POSSIBLE he let air out without having the PSI drop in the footballs any more than it would due to physics. Maybe he went to the bathroom after all?

  84. someidiotsays:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:02 AM
    “The cheating will continue as long as Belecheat is in the league.”

    ============

    The last time there was a dynasty in Boston the same rumors were perpetuated. Red Auerbach was accused of no hot water, dead spots on the floor, no AC or turning off the heat and about a 1000 other things. When teams can’t quite figure out how a team is successful over along period of time they resort to the lowest common denominator, “THEY MUST BE CHEATING”.

  85. No matter what happens between Brady and the league, I hope that other teams realize that the Pats and their players go to great lengths to circumvent the rules, including illegally taking footballs into a room after being checked by officials, and that they should play the Pats with a little more incentive this year. Beginning with the Steelers, who will send the Pats to their first loss of the season. Cheaters.

  86. Read these posts and the idiocy just compounds itself.

    The Patriots win so they must cheat. That quickly evolves into the Patriots cheat. Which evolves into the Patriots only win because they cheat.

    If the Patriots cheated once they cheated all of the time (no one can explain why they weren’t caught, and still haven’t been caught; must be a miracle). The haters have faith that the Patriots are cheaters and believe it like people believe in god, and their whole lives would be shaken if that belief was taken from them.

    Grigson started the scandal by saying that everyone knows the Patriots deflate footballs but the only team they pointed to as knowing, the Ravens, have denied the accusation. In six months, no other person included in “everyone” has come forward.

    Now that the NFL looks bad because the judge, not Goodell, made the transcript public, the haters say they are sick of the story and Brady should just man up and accept the four game suspension an loss of $2MM in salary. As if standing up to Goodell, Wells, the lies, and a media sucking up to the NFL is being “a freaking little girl”. He’s not just a cheater, he’s a girly man say the haters. Last but not least the haters declare victory by saying “Brady’s reputation is ruined”. The true hater motto: If you can’t be them, smear them.

  87. dan7800 says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:18 AM
    So if a Home Run king in baseball gets using a corked bat for an entire season, then that is just an “Equipment Violation”

    ——————

    2 problems with that argument. 1. We are talking about 1 game here. No evidence of anything occurring in any other game. 2. Corking a bat way worse than letting air out of a ball. That’s equivalent to filling a ball with helium or something like that. In baseball this violation would be like using a slightly lighter bat.

    In any case, your example has happened before and it resulted in a 7 game suspension. That’s like a 1 game suspension in the NFL.

  88. zero consequences?!! he asked incredulously have you not been paying attention? He’s been suspended he is getting killed in the court of public opinion those aren’t consequences?

  89. I think the judge will also be aware from the record of the appeal that:

    1 – Rodger Goodell was clearly mostly hostile toward Tom Brady, not a neutral judge.

    2- The NFL was Clueless about PSI and the effects game day conditions could have on the balls.

    3 – The officials and NFL executives did not have the needed equipment or knowledge orecord all the relevant measurement to make a determination about the ball deflation.

    4 – Exponent clearly ignored real scientific principals inorder to come to their conclusion.

    5 – The NFL was stretching or ignoring the facts to support their punishment.

    6 – Goodell lied about Brady’s testimony in his decision. He also INFLATED Exponents finding of the extent of the varience of the Patriots balls.

    A few thigs that jumped out at me when reading the appeal transcript.

    The NFL’s Exponent had to omit the results of their own heat graphs which showed the extent the balls would rise between the time the balls from the Patriots and Colts were tested. In order to get the Patriots balls to be more under inflated than the Colt;s balls. My recollection was a 1.1 pound PSI gain.

    The ball boy was supposed to deflate 12 football in a little over 1 minute. Rodger Goodell was clearly attacking the NFLPA’s science expert to challange his statement. The NFLPA’s science expert said the 3 officials testing and adjusting the ball inflating would take at lest 4 minutes. The 4 minute number came from Exponent conclusions. If they had done it in 4 minutes they would have also been plenty of time to test all 12 of the Colt’s balls as well and still had time to relax before the second half.

    Also Exponent would not use the PSI measurements from after game not use the because the would have gone against their tampering conclusion.

    The Exponent representative looked ridicules trying to explain why Exponent used the pressure gauge that read lower even though Walt Anderson said his best recollection was he used the Wilson logo gauge with the long bent needle that read .3 to .4 PSI higher.

  90. If the NFL thinks everything is now conduct detrimental to the league, it has to be collectively bargained for. I think this is how it should be. I believe this is why unions are there.

  91. If the NFL says they have wide latitude in what they can do, the other players and owners better watch out.

    It is like a totalitarian dictatorship.

  92. Before people speak and hate on the Pat I just want someone in that arena to do some research.
    The Pats cheated and were caught in 07 so that is undeniable But tell me when have hey undeniably cheated before and after? Be careful accusations need to be proven
    Meanwhile if we use accusations and the new criteria of more probably than not this is cheating that the league seems to be using now than the Colts have cheated more never even been investigated The Ravens been punished once they’ve cheated more The Jets also have cheated more than the Pats and been punished about the same amount

  93. So the defense has gone from “he didn’t cheat” to “yes he cheated but you can’t punish him as you see fit”? Ok, just so we’re clear.

  94. citizenstrange says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:39 AM

    This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.

    Then all of a sudden it will again be the “Patriot Way” of “I want to move on and put this behind me and for the good of the team and the NFL I will serve my four game suspension.”

    Thus far Brady has been lying through his teeth with zero consequences or repercussions.
    *****************************************
    And this is the problem with this entire ordeal.

    Are you even the slightest bit aware that when Brady was interviewed, and when his appeal took place, it was under oath? Of course not. You automatically jump to a conclusion, based on the sensationalism that the media is feeding you.

    It is shameful that the Baltimore Ravens Head Coach, who I used to have alot of respect for, has been shown to be so utterly incompetent that when he got confused by the Patriots using legal formations, and his entire coaching staff was so overmatched that they could not respond to it, he decided to have someone on his staff go to the Colts and have them make the league aware that the Patriots footballs might be under inflated. Showing even more of their incompetence, they say that their LEAGUE PROVIDED KICKING BALLS WERE SOFT. This is just embarrassing. And then to continue to stand in front of the national media and lie through their teeth really makes the league look bad. Kind of detrimental to the good order of the brand.

    So, you have a football that is barely underinflated, most likely due to weather, and the media whips the fans up into a frenzy. Kind of reminded me of the time that George Brett had his home run taken away because the Yankees cried about there being too much Pine Tar on the bat. Forget the bad pitch that he hit out of the park. It was the Pine Tar. This is the same thing. Forget the fact that the Patriots dominated the Colts start to finish, (half of it being with league monitored, properly inflated footballs). I bet if the Colts spent half as much time preparing to stop the Patriots instead of trying to beat them with a technicality, they wouldn’t have been embarrassed so bad. And if the Ravens had a coaching staff that was better prepared and not so easily shown to be clueless, they might have done better.

    This whole situation just shows how fans will believe anything they are told to believe, and will use any excuse to knock down a good team.

  95. Of course the OTHER side is that the NFL still haven’t proven that anything happened to the balls in the first place.

    They haven’t shown the ball boys did anything illegal with them.

    They haven’t shown that Brady was involved in anyway.

    So put those facts with Florio’s article, and the NFL isn’t sitting pretty.

  96. “The Patriots win so they must cheat. That quickly evolves into the Patriots cheat. Which evolves into the Patriots only win because they cheat.”

    There are PLENTY of good teams in sports that didn’t have the cheating cloud hanging over their heads. This is just an excuse by Pats fans.

  97. What difference does it make if there is an intent to break the rules?

    So, if Tom Brady had said that he likes to under-inflate the footballs before the refs inspect them, to see if they get through, the Hater Faithful would have been good with that?

    Hell no they wouldn’t.

    Aaron Rodgers comment showed an ongoing conspiracy to circumvent the rules, which is what they claim the Patriots were doing.
    ———————————
    Yes. Because the balls would NEVER see the field deflated because the ref’s adjust the balls. And Rodgers said they add a bit more because when you test the ball, you are removing air.

    The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested. Rodgers never plays with a ball that isn’t up to spec based on the refs because they will be adjusted accordingly.

  98. Hey – look – let’s all admit, the evidence released this week PROVES Roger Goodell is attempting to frame and slander Brady to make himself more popular with 31 other teams – and it’s working (“Stay gullible average NFL fan!”)

    But even Tom Brady has to admit that this is the NFLPA’s fault

    They specifically gave Goodell permission to frame and slander them in the CBA – and not just him. ANY player in the NFL. Goodell doesn’t even need hard evidence – AND the CBA agreement the players signed even allows him to COMPLETELY LIE and make up evidence – assuming the “best recollection” of the official who’s word they took as Gospel on remembering 24 specific PSI readings before the game suddenly developed Early Onset Alzheimer’s when it came to remembering which gauge he used.

    It’s all right there in the CBA – don’t blame Goodell
    If there’s any “general awareness” of bad things happening on a team now, expect that player to be suspended as well.

    Joe Flacco is “generally aware” of another guy on the Ravens taking steriods or beating his wife? BOOM – 4 game minimum.

    The NFLPA has no one to blame but themselves

  99. You know, at some point there will be footballs tested in similar environments and the footballs will drop in psi in line with the Patriots footballs. Rainy, cold weather.
    We also know that the league will absolutely not allow that information to be released publicly.
    It is up to high schools, colleges and individuals to do the rather easy scientific study themselves.
    No matter what happens to Brady- in time- Goodell, Pash, Vincent, Kensil, Gardi and others will be shown for what they are.

  100. gabrosin says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:06 AM

    There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense.
    —————
    yeah no doubt, brady pissed off after the jets game because his guys only deflated them down to 2.5 pounds over the limit proves you are correct. It must be a burden being the smartest person in the room every where you go.

  101. 28 Lashes All Day says:
    Rodgers said that they push the limits because the refs always let air out of the balls during the testing process.

    This happens BEFORE the refs inspect the balls. Brady’s deflation happened AFTER the balls were inspected.

    Notice the difference?
    ————————————–

    And you don’t see a problem with that? If they were able to sneak the balls through as he says they can sometimes, they would be playing with balls far over the maximum allowed pressure (which btw is actually an advantage because a harder ball travels faster…).

    That said, since the NFL didn’t actually record pregame PSI readings or have any standard for ball testing, if one of these balls was caught in game, they would have no way to prove that they didn’t alter the balls AFTER the ref had them.

    But you obviously just hate the Pats and don’t care that common sense says they had no procedure to test the balls because it WASN’T A BIG DEAL.

  102. No, the deflation level of the Colts balls was not “far less”.
    That rather small difference in drop is explainable by the minutes passed in the warmer locker room while the Pats balls were tested twice and then given more air.

  103. There are holes in that argument that prevent it from being that simple.

    1) Equipment manipulation might be a reasonable description of the actual act of deflating footballs. But it does not include the act of paying others to alter equipment (bribery) and doesnt include the act of using his position within the team to pressuring others to do his will against the rules (blackmail). It also doesnt include the act of going on National TV & lying to the public about his actions (Conduct Detrimental to the League).

    2) The NFLPA’s argument appears to contradict itself by first stating that there is a circumstance that something could be considered “Conduct Detrimental” but then continues on in such a way to suggest that determining what those things are would need to be outlined within a new CBA. The NFLPA’s argument by design is flawed, because it argues against the already agreed right of the NFL to have the sole right to determine what constitutes “CD”. For example, if a new drug hits that should be on the list but isn’t, the league retains the right to ban it. It’s then the union’s responibilty to negotiate it’s position on the matter within the next CBA. The point is if something new shows up not previously addressed within a CbA, that doesn’t mean the NFL is powerless.

  104. Applying common sense? OK. Here…let’s apply some common sense:

    1. NO ONE IN HIS OR HER RIGHT MIND BELIEVES A BALL BOY WOULD DO ANYTHING TO FOOTBALLS WITHOUT TOM BRADY’S EXPRESS SAY SO.

    2. NO ONE BELIEVES that a ball boy would take footballs into a bathroom without the intent to alter their air pressure.

    3. NO ONE outside of N.E. believes a person would order that his phone be destroyed THE DAY BEFORE HE’S TO TESTIFY INTO ALLEGED CHEATING unless he was hiding his guilt.

    4. NO ONE OUTSIDE OF N.E. believes Robert Kraft would accept a million dollar fine and the loss of 2 draft picks IF NO ONE IN THE ORGANIZATION DID ANY THING WRONG.

    5. MOST PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF N.E. already believe that the Patirots are cheaters and liars, what with already HAVING BEEN CONVICTED OF CHEATING in SPYGATE. MANY have asked why Sean Payton got suspended for a year but Bill Belichick got NO suspension, when both used the same defense: “No knowledge of the wrongdoings of others”. Also, former Hall of Fame players have come out and said that Tom Brady is lying. As such, this incident has CLEARLY proven detrimental to the integrity of the game of football!

  105. I love it when somebody says the “bottom-line is,” then go on to lie about the bottom-line.

    Like Lashes All Day just did below:

    ———————————
    “Yes. Because the balls would NEVER see the field deflated because the ref’s adjust the balls. And Rodgers said they add a bit more because when you test the ball, you are removing air.

    The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested. Rodgers never plays with a ball that isn’t up to spec based on the refs because they will be adjusted accordingly.”

  106. “So the defense has gone from “he didn’t cheat” to “yes he cheated but you can’t punish him as you see fit”? Ok, just so we’re clear.”

    There are two defenses. The court is not, in this case, a finder of facts – the court is evaluating the process. So the filing with the court, the appeal, is all about process. The question before the court is not, “did Tom Brady do it?” The question before the court is, “assuming that Tom Brady did it, is the NFL justified, under the terms of the CBA, in imposing the punishment it imposed.”

    There’s not going to be an independent arbitrator ever look at the other part, so those of us who are convinced that Brady did nothing wrong, because nothing wrong took place, will continue to maintain that as a defense. But it’s not relevant to the current legal action.

  107. “The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested.”

    The bottom line is that Brady is ACCUSED of trying to have it done after the official inspection. There’s no actual evidence of it.

  108. Goodell has 32 bosses. 31 think he did a great job with deflategate punishment. That is all that matters. NE fans crying at a record breaking pace is totally meaningless.

  109. This story has played out like the Pats-Ravens playoff game from last year. NFL jumps out to commanding lead by lying and leaking false information. Patriots tie it up through common sense and application of science and the ideal gas law. NFL releases Wells Report and takes commanding lead again, handing out unprecedented penalties for something they didn’t prove even happened. The AEI report was the eligible receiver play to Hooman. The transcript release was Edelman to Amendola. This court case will be Flacco lofting it into the end zone only to be picked off. Then Brady will speak publicly and hopefully tells the entire NFL off.

  110. There is a specific rule for under or over inflation levels which specifies at least $25K fine. This is an equipment violation and not a player violation, meaning the team is penalized. The fine could be increased but a player cannot be punished.

    Since referees supposedly check each ball before the game, any violation would have to be as a result of some nefarious attempt by a team to alter the inflation level. So if the justification for this becoming an integrity of the game issue is that someone deflated the ball in a bathroom, why does this rule exist? Explain to me a sceanario where this rule would applied which would not include somebody with a needle deflating the ball in a secretive manner.

    The reason it is a $25K fine, is that the league did not consider it a very serious violation and now they are treating this like someone shaved points which is totally ridiculous.

    Not to mention the fact that they have not even presented any evidence at all that Brady had anything to do with it. Tom Brady autographed items for team employees. This is somehow viewed as an inducement for cheating? No texts, no testimony, no evidence that a crime was even committed. This has been a put up job from the beginning. Whether you think Brady did anything or not, they found nothing to implicate him.

  111. .
    Sauron, (Roger Goodell) is omnipotent. So are his wringwraiths : Wells, Pash, Vincent, Gardi, Blandino, Kensil, Henderson, Graves, Grigson, Harbaugh, Pagano, Mortenson and Kravitz.

    Never question ” The Lords of the Game”, blasphemers !
    .

  112. ““The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested.”

    The bottom line is Brady was nowhere near the balls after they were inspected

  113. Here’s what most fans commenting here don’t know, because they only read the headlines and listen to ESPN.

    A) Goodell misrepresented Tom’s testimony to the extent of actually lying about what Tom said…this is a fact
    B) Wells told Brady he wouldn’t be punished for not handing over the phone…this is a fact, all the data has been available but for 3 txt message.
    C) Tom is only being charged with having a “general awareness”, nothing else, so you who keep saying he is accused of cheating are completely wrong. He’s not being charged with directing them to do so, or doing it himself.

  114. “This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.”

    Perjury??? You seem to think this is a criminal case, or a civil case where someone is being sued

  115. limakey says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:54 AM
    ………………….1000 percent proof that Brady preferred under inflated balls. He submitted two in the AFCCG.
    ______________________________________
    Come on Limakey, you are normally better than that…….1000 percent proof? Hopefully that was just a typo. But your comment about him submitting two under inflated balls in the AFCCG. He didn’t because he doesn’t submit any of the balls. He selects the balls he wants based on feel. There isn’t a sticker on them that says what the pressure is. But regardless, the equipment guys are the ones that bring the balls to the game officials to test.
    Do you have any evidence at all that even implies let alone proves that he told his equipment guys to try and slip in any under inflated balls? Of course you don’t. So why don’t you get back on the high road and state what’s known rather than what is presumed (but still unproven).
    Goodell is going down Limakey. Accept that already cause you must now see he deserves it.

  116. Guys, why would you not post the excerpt from Dowd pointing out that Goodell,the NFL, and their lawyers have once again changed the facts? They have abandoned the “more probable than not” finding from the initial ruling. That is prima facie evidence that the NFL knows its case against Brady is a loser.

  117. I read through this whole thing, and didn’t see a single word about fines or punishments for failure to fully cooperate in an investigation…and then destroy evidence after failing to fully cooperate.

    IIRC, the NFL made a pretty big deal out of upholding the suspension due to the fact that Brady admitted at his appeal hearing of not having fully cooperated, with his “revelation” that the phone was destroyed that particular day.

    And failure to fully cooperate doesn’t have a fine associated with it in the CBA, does it?

  118. ———————————
    Yes. Because the balls would NEVER see the field deflated because the ref’s adjust the balls. And Rodgers said they add a bit more because when you test the ball, you are removing air.

    The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested. Rodgers never plays with a ball that isn’t up to spec based on the refs because they will be adjusted accordingly.
    ————————-

    Adjusted accordingly, just like those used by the Pats vs. the Jets. The ones that were inflated to 16 PSI?

  119. The NFL is now saying that the investigation by Wells did not need to be independent (since it is now obvious to all that it was not independent). So if they called it independent at the beginning, isn’t that misleading to anyone who they interviewed and questioned? I would be more willing to give info to an independent investigator than to someone who I knew it was their job to find me guilty. That alone makes the whole process unfair, not to mention there was no deflation per the ideal gas law.
    The NFL is the most despicable group of people I have ever seen. If this is not overturned then my faith in our judicial system will be less than zero.

  120. Adjusted accordingly, just like those used by the Pats vs. the Jets. The ones that were inflated to 16 PSI?
    ———-
    If that even happened…then it’s the Patriots job to file a complaint to the NFL. Not just take the ball into their own hands. I know it’s hard for a Patriots fan to believe that there are rules in the NFL for a reason.

    If spygate taught us anything it’s that the Patriots think they are above the rules. They were warned and told to stop doing what they were doing and they continued to do it anyway.

  121. ““The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested.”

    The bottom line is Brady was nowhere near the balls after they were inspected
    ————
    Of course not. QB’s don’t do anything to the balls. The locker room attendants do and they tell them EXACTLY how they want the footballs.

    But in this case, he had them do it AFTER they were inspected. Sorry.

  122. In a REAL Court of Law, there must be a Violation committed BEFORE the punishment is handed down and there is a specified punishment for every violation.
    Since no violation occurred, there can be no punishment. LOGIC 101 people – WAKE UP
    Secondaly, the Well$ Report does not even satisfy the “More Probable than Not” opinion of a Prosecutorial attack.
    Any CREDIBLLE Judge will
    1.) Look at the FACTS surrounding the case (Judge Berman already stated that “He is FAMILIAR with the case – Win for Brady.)
    2.)Judge Berman will weigh both sides of the Argument/Petition based on the FACTS – not on conjecture or “More Likely Than Not”
    3.) The Judge will look at the written CBA laws & codes agreed upon by Goodell & NFLPA.
    4.) Taking the FACTS of the case, the Transcripts of everyone’s testimony – ONLY Brady Swore under OATH. This will HEAVILY weigh in Brady’s favor. The Judge knows that Goodell has lied about many things and he has a history of lying = Ray Rice.
    5.) The Judge will reprimand Goodell & the NFL of his ‘Over Stepping the Boundaries contained in the CBA. Creating punishment not specified for the violation. Attaching a Violation that does not apply to the EVIDENCE provided in the Well$ report.

  123. Meet half way (2 games) or both Goodell and Brady get suspended without pay for 4 games.

  124. The New York Times reported that Judge Berman told The New York Law Journal last year that he believed the role of a judge was to “justly” and “speedily” move civil cases to conclusion.

    “Justly” and “speedily” are the last things Goodell has been in this case. I take it that the judge finds Goodell’s dragging out deflategate and hanging Brady out to dry particularly distasteful and an abuse of the CBA’s judicial system.

  125. The judge will uphold Goodell’s ruling because the CBA states that he has that power. You’d better hope Brady can put together a nice package as a deal when they meet on the 12th or it will be the full 4 games.

    As for all the rehash arguments, I suppose if they keep the Pats-homers off the streets and out of trouble, they serve some purpose, but that’s about it.

  126. Go figure, the NFL actually believes a multi-year cheating scandal is detrimental to their league!!! And I thought they were intentionally looking to “frame” and “smear” one of their star players simply because they thought that was good business for their multi-billion dollar business. Ooops, I might not one the many delusional NE fans (patsies) that need to come up with idiotic stories and excuses for their idol QB who cheats and lies.

  127. You know when your 5 year old son tells a lie or cheats, and you try to tell him about what’s right & wrong. Your trying to teach them yet they just deny,deny,deny. You also know when they get a little older it will become easier, they’ll understand and learn from their mistakes, but what happens when they grow up and don’t ever learn this life skill. They become of tom brady. Time to grow up tb

  128. In a REAL Court of Law, there must be a Violation committed BEFORE the punishment is handed down and there is a specified punishment for every violation.
    ————–
    After reading your constantly obsess….you are an embarrassment to all NFL fans.

    The NFL is not a court of law. It is a private entity with their own rules agreed upon by the owners and the CBA. Don’t like it? Tough. The players voted on it. So they should contact their NFLPA leader and take it up with him.

  129. The NFLPA agreed to let Roger Goodell decide things.

    Roger Goodell decided something.

    You lose.

  130. I hope you don’t get on a jury you convict before facts are known. When has Brady cheated? 07 was all the Pats Bellichek please look at facts before you convict

  131. Goodell has stated the integrity of the game is most important. Yet he was in violation with Rice et al with the way he handled it He put a price of 2 games on woman’s well being 4 games for ball tampering and being defiant the decision making and maker are flawed and lack integrity something Goodell has maintained is most important

  132. To the10-20 pats-haters still around please look up the polling of the NFL fandom. Early in the process 75%-87% backed the NFL as this dragged on and information was released and analyzed the tide has turned markedly against th NFL 65%-75% IN Brady’s favor. We the NFL fandom are now waiting to see what happens to the team penalties, since Brady’s suspension will be vacated — 100% certain based on the recent judges comments and rulings on how he will handle the case. Kraft will need to decide what he will do and yes he can still sue going forward, his problem is he will be sueing 1/32 of his share of the league and it will be years in court. Only hope is judge rules that all punishments are recinded. That is probably not going to be part of the findings. Brandy will not sue for slander the bar is WAY too high and again it would be years in the courts and probably settled with a ND document.

    So guys the tide has turned to Brady’s favor and the fandom is basically discussing what happens to the team penalties going forward. One thoery is that courts order the penalties to delayed and in 2015 a wide sampling is made of PSI during the season and if thr evidence supports the NE position penalties are recinded if not they are enforced. The judge makes the ruling based on the evidence and the briefs submitted.
    While this seem like at lot of work over nothing remember the Senate will have a subcommitee investigate and look into the NFL if this is not properly handled. They will do so based on tax dollars are used to fund stadiums and other exemptions given to the NFL specifically.

  133. “The NFL has admitted that it had no prior sensitivity to the science of football inflation and deflation, including the fairly obvious concept that air pressure drops in cold weather.”

    So the NFL puts out a false story before it even realized the air pressure drops in cold weather. Then all the balls were within the the range of the ideal gas law. So now people are saying Brady cheated. Had he cheated, seems to me the balls would have been 2 pounds below where they tested.

  134. dan7800 says:
    Aug 8, 2015 12:29 PM
    “The Patriots win so they must cheat. That quickly evolves into the Patriots cheat. Which evolves into the Patriots only win because they cheat.”

    There are PLENTY of good teams in sports that didn’t have the cheating cloud hanging over their heads. This is just an excuse by Pats fans.
    ——
    Nope, excuse by loser fans. Can’t beat ’em on the field, spread rumors, lie, lie some more than edit an “independent” report.

  135. 28 Lashes All Day says:
    Aug 8, 2015 1:23 PM
    ““The bottom line is that Brady tries to do it AFTER they are tested.”

    The bottom line is Brady was nowhere near the balls after they were inspected
    ————
    Of course not. QB’s don’t do anything to the balls. The locker room attendants do and they tell them EXACTLY how they want the footballs.

    But in this case, he had them do it AFTER they were inspected. Sorry.
    ————
    Here’s what kills me,

    since this BS Ballocaust started, all of a sudden everyone is an expert on what NFL Qb’s know.

    You’se guys are all cranioproctoscopy experts, I’ll give ya that

  136. Nope, excuse by loser fans. Can’t beat ’em on the field, spread rumors, lie, lie some more than edit an “independent” report.
    —————-

    Except fans don’t get to make these decisions. And it is well documented that Goodell and Kraft were good friends, so there isn’t any incentive on his part to try to burn his friend unless he has no choice.

  137. I love that the same people who say the deflator text is absolute 100% proof that the Patriots cheated are the same people saying the 16psi text shouldn’t be taken at face value.

    That’s precisely what’s wrong with this case. When you predetermine someone’s guilt you fit the facts into the story you’ve made up rather than trying to figure out what happened.

  138. I love how all the bullet points the haters have been spouting out for the past 8 months continue to get extinquished and dismantled, and now the one they’re left with is…”Welp, Goodell can do what he wants because blah blah blah CBA”. How can you even take yourself seriously when your argument is that the worst commissioner in sports can exploit some loopholes, and to hell with facts and truth? Is your hate for the patriots that strong that you refuse to see how dispicable that is? You’re conceding to everyone that you dislike the patriots more than you enjoy the game of football. That’s gross.

  139. So the why by appearances is Goodell burning Kraft. Also tell me if we use the new criteria of more probably than not it is cheating why have the Colts cheated more and have never been investigated or punished The Ravens have been punished once and have cheated more No Goodell is a fraud who responds to the best asskisser and apparently it is no longer Kraft

  140. Every criminal remembers the name of the judge that put him away. That’s why Pats fans have zeroed in on Goodell. It’s really the video of McNally and the texts from Brady to Jastremski that seal the deal.

  141. citizenstrange says:
    “This will all come to a screeching halt if Brady has to testify under oath and penalty for perjury.”

    He testified under oath for hours at his appeal. So what is you next argument! Learn the actual facts before you waste anyone’s time again.

  142. The NFL was not legally obligated to have hired an independent investigation

    ____

    So they didn’t. They hired Wells instead

  143. bonniebengal says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:03 AM
    The rule says including BUT NOT LIMITED TO a $25,000 fine.

    —————

    This is the biggest misunderstanding yet to be explained.

    That particular language does not mean what people would think it means. What it means it that the NFL has some flexibility in punishing. The last time they imposed the fine, maybe it was $5,000 and this time it is $25,000. Next time it could be $25,000 and a 7th round draft pick.

    That kind of language establishes what kind of punishment is to be enforced when a rule is violated. What the NFL has done is totally ignore any prior case history involving incidents with tampering with game equipment (what Brady is alleged to have done, and even as a Patriots fan, I admit probably had done).

    If this were not the case and the rule was as you read it, there would be no purpose for that language at all. The commissioner could impose any fine/suspension he wanted (which is what he has basically done).

    In almost all cases that go before arbitration, penalties like the NFL has imposed (ones multiple orders of magnitude greater than bargained for in the CBA) would be thrown out and redone based on prior case history, but the NFL controls both the imposing of the fine AND the arbitration.

    This is one area where you can tell Roger Goodell is NOT a former lawyer (among other things) and it is bad for the NFL. He and the rest of his staff make this up as they go. Fortunately for him, the NFL is growing at a stupid rate right now. The owners will stand behind the man who is leading the ship that going full speed ahead.

  144. gabrosin says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:06 AM

    There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. You either believe that nothing happened, because you live in New England, or you believe that this has been going on for years, because people don’t call themselves “the Deflator” back in 2014 because they’re trying to lose weight.

    A better analogy would be discovering that the equipment managers were applying stickum to the star receiver’s gloves and had been for years. This is the first time you’ve actually caught them, but you have credible reason to believe it’s been going on for a long time.
    __________________________________

    If they’ve been doing it for years then why were the footballs in the game against the Jets at 16 psi?

  145. conormacleod says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:08 AM
    What does the CBA say about refusing to cooperate with an internal investigation, and also destroying potential evidence in said investigation after being asked to supply said potential evidence?
    ——————————–

    The CBA doesn’t say anything about this.

  146. the CBA said nothing about it for Brett Farve either it was left up to the Commish the standard is there Farve was defiant and did something not good with his phone he was only fined I think it was 50K and no suspension

  147. The judge will uphold Goodell’s ruling because the CBA states that he has that power.

    ___

    CBA is written with the understanding Goodell will act in good faith. He has not done that. The court will see that and overturn it.

  148. The only ones guilty of conduct detrimental to the shield and the integrity of professional football is Goodell, Pash, Vincent, Kensil, Wells ans Nash.

    They have obliterated the integrity of the NFL with their lies and failed sting operation.

    They all ought to be fired and permanently banned from Professional Football and the NFL.

  149. Excellent summation, Mr. Florio, of the situation as it stands today after the submission of the briefs from both parties. I believe it is accurate to say that the Judge is predominately ruling on whether the league and Goodell overstepped their authority, or conducted an unfair, biased investigation. That would vacate Goodell’s authority to level a penalty. This is separate from the convincing evidence that Brady DID NOT commit what he is accused of. Still, the conduct vs equipment question could be the deciding factor as well. This has been a great insight into the abuse of power and the obvious bias against the Patriots that exist today. The populace as well as so called authority figures are so willing to be LAZY and not search for the truth but rather spew out the things that support their prejudices no matter the consequences to people’s lives. The finish will be interesting.

  150. Miami is going to take the AFC East most talent they had in last 15 years!!! Cant wait to play

    ———————————-

    As a Pats fan I’d love to see some tougher competition in the AFC East. Tough rivalry games make them all so much more fun (i.e. Lakers-Celtics, Bruins-Habs). Good luck Fins, can’t wait for football season!

  151. Using Stick’em and deflating the game ball are not analogous.

    Stick’em only affects the person catching the ball.

    Deflating the game ball affects every position on the field to some extent.

    A better analogy would be if the patriots could narrow the goal posts on their end of the field so that it was harder for their opponents to score a FG or PAT since the other team presumably didn’t use a deflated ball.

    It tilts the odds for the entire side of the ball. That’s why Brady should be suspended and 4 games seems light since everyone knows this has been occurring for years.

  152. The best part of this is the nfl’s defamation of mr Brady in court documents. They can’t spin or walk that back. Sue them on your own behalf sir, they’ve defamed your name & damaged your brand with no evidence. Make kensil, Gardi, pash, Vincent & Goodell pay for doing so.

  153. Knowledge/suspicion is not proof and knowing how fussy some QBs are I wonder if others do it. I know in the past many did and now the league is cracking down?

  154. “Okay, why were the balls in the game vs the Jets pumped up to 16 psi then?”

    —-

    Not only that, how’d they do it on the road when Jim McNally wasn’t present? There’s no way TB12 wanted balls deflated below 12.5 BUT only at home games. It’s ludicrous. That the Colts said they suspected something from prior game IN INDY is ludicrous, because no such “scheme” that had been “in place for years” could’ve happened with JM sitting at home.

  155. Non Pats fans can sit here and troll all the want based on sport talk radio hosts who haven’t read all the legal documents or what ever hatered you have for the Patriots. Just remember this..

    Roger’s Final Appeal Letter, Page 3 (Seventh) –

    On the basis of Brady not giving up his phone Roger included this little nugget in the non-cooperation clause.

    On this basis, as well as the Well’s report conclusion that Mr Brady denials of involvement in the tampering scheme were not credible, I found that Mr Brady had failed to cooperate with the investigation.

    Here’s the short version – NFL is trying to set precedent for “Law of Shop”to include that if Roger doesn’t believe ANY NFL PLAYER he can charge him for non cooperation.

    So sit there and throw your words about Brady should just take being railroad. In the end don’t forget he’s protecting your favorite player who may in the future have this slapped on them.

  156. jetsfan136 says:
    Aug 8, 2015 2:25 PM

    Every criminal remembers the name of the judge that put him away
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Goodell will never forget Judge Berman.

  157. If you believe Pats doctored the balls, can you explain how it is possible that Pats and Brady had cheated for years, on something nobody checked or cared, but million dollar investigation failed to find any hard evidence, not even a text message between Brady and McNally?

  158. Pathetic haters, must suck to know you’re wrong again. You must be beside yourselves. Probably gonna spew absurdities and frustrate yourselves more than Brady and the Pats do. Good times…….Best of times for the champs and their nation. HA

  159. Patriot fans sick to their stomach thinking about life without Tom. Garapolo is a joke and they know it.

  160. beachsidejames says:
    Aug 8, 2015 4:39 PM
    Patriot fans sick to their stomach thinking about life without Tom. Garapolo is a joke and they know it.

    Fish fans sick to their stomachs thinking about another 8-8 season

  161. atthemurph says:
    Aug 8, 2015 3:48 PM

    Using Stick’em and deflating the game ball are not analogous.

    Stick’em only affects the person catching the ball.

    Deflating the game ball affects every position on the field to some extent.

    A better analogy would be if the patriots could narrow the goal posts on their end of the field so that it was harder for their opponents to score a FG or PAT since the other team presumably didn’t use a deflated ball.

    It tilts the odds for the entire side of the ball. That’s why Brady should be suspended and 4 games seems light since everyone knows this has been occurring for years.
    ********************************
    No, the Stickum analogy is exactly right. How does a ball at the low end of the PSI impact any offensive lineman except the center? Running Backs and Receivers used Stickum when it was legal, to help grip the ball better. Using a ball at the low end of the PSI spectrum really only helps Brady. The backs and receivers all use gloves that help them catch a ball regardless of PSI.

    Now, lets compare the Goodell Dartboard Punishment. Look at what he did to the Redskins and Cowboys for re-working contracts, that had to be league approved before they could be paid, during a NON CAPPED YEAR. The Skins lost $36 million in cap space. That was just Goodell making a decision on punishment to make 30 other owners happy. This punishment is the same thing. He is trying to make 3 other owners happy. The Drug Addict owner of the Colts. The lying Ravens owner and the Jets owner.

    So, Goodell just set a precedent. What happens when the league does a random test on some game balls in New York, and they will, and they find that the Jets or Giants balls deflated during the cold weather. Will they suspend Eli or whoever is QB’ing the Jets? How about when the same thing happens in Baltimore when the weather turns cold? My guess is that it will be a side note somewhere and nothing will be done.

    Finally, knock it off about the personal cell phone. Ted Wells had ZERO legal authority to look at Tom Brady’s PERSONAL cell phone. He was not being investigated by anyone acting in a law enforcement capacity. And his personal cell phone contents are his private business. I would have not turned mine over either. Get a subpoena if you want to look at it. I can bet you that no judge out there would tell Tom Brady to turn it over, based on an allegation that he might know something about how air pressure left a football in the cold weather.

  162. 28 Lashes All Day says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:41 AM

    When does the NFL Office get investigated for “conduct detrimental” to the league?
    ————-

    When they do nothing about teams cheating in the NFL. In spygate they were warned by the NFL to stop doing it and they continued to thumb their nose at the league and knock it off. They made their own bed.

    In this situation, there was plenty of evidence to suspect cheating and they failed to cooperate fully in the investigation. And then your buffoon owner tried to say it was related to weight loss. LOL
    ————————————

    Then I guess it is time to start investigating them, since they did nothing to the team that was heating footballs on the sidelines, on national television, and they summarily dismissed the claims by Aaron Rodgers about cheating with over-inflated footballs. Both situations had direct video evidence, by the way, unlike *Framegate, which had no evidence.

  163. We all know Garapolo sucks…That’s why NE fans are crying like little girls.

  164. If we use the criteria or more probably than not like the league is using
    The Jets spied again in 2011 anything done then?
    Kballgate 09 the kicker was generally aware sound familiar? he was not punished
    Ravens 2 challengegates 09&011 not punished
    Bengals challengegate 014 not punished
    Colts noisegate 05,07,014 deflategate 015
    I could go on and on what this shows is the NFL cherry picks who it goes after there is NO consistency therefore how can any of us trust the league?

  165. atthemurph says:
    Aug 8, 2015 3:48 PM

    Using Stick’em and deflating the game ball are not analogous.

    Stick’em only affects the person catching the ball.

    Deflating the game ball affects every position on the field to some extent.

    A better analogy would be if the patriots could narrow the goal posts on their end of the field so that it was harder for their opponents to score a FG or PAT since the other team presumably didn’t use a deflated ball.

    It tilts the odds for the entire side of the ball. That’s why Brady should be suspended and 4 games seems light since everyone knows this has been occurring for years.
    ——————————————

    I don’t understand where the Hater Faithful gets their dumb ideas.

    Using stickum is an attempt to gain a competitive edge.

    There is absolutely zero evidence that the inflation level of a football has any correlation to a competitive advantage.

    Going by the AFFCG though, the Patriots showed that a deflated football might be a detriment, since they played even better in the second half with a “correctly” inflated football.

    No one knows that Tom Brady was doing anything for years, except for winning, that is.

  166. beachsidejames says:
    Aug 8, 2015 5:26 PM

    We all know Garapolo sucks…That’s why NE fans are crying like little girls.
    —————-

    You don’t know any such thing.

  167. I thought the question was did he really do it and is the evidence strong enough and the process fair? I think we can all agree that if it was proven that he actually did it and obstructed the investigation, he absolutely deserves the suspension.

  168. Hopefully the judge will be looking at the totality of *Framegate, and ruling on whether it was BS or not, but I think he is just looking at whether Emperor Goodell went overboard when he said “You will respect my authoritah!”

  169. Goodell’s brief basically says I can punish anyone any amount I want by defining anything as “conduct detrimental the league” — which really means anyone uppity enough to refuse to grovel to me. That’s it. short version.

  170. dandeman19 says:
    Aug 8, 2015 5:43 PM

    If we use the criteria or more probably than not like the league is using
    The Jets spied again in 2011 anything done then?
    Kballgate 09 the kicker was generally aware sound familiar? he was not punished
    Ravens 2 challengegates 09&011 not punished
    Bengals challengegate 014 not punished
    Colts noisegate 05,07,014 deflategate 015
    I could go on and on what this shows is the NFL cherry picks who it goes after there is NO consistency therefore how can any of us trust the league?
    —————————————

    It’s become pretty clear that this whole thing is just a Jets vs. Patriots thing.

    Hard to believe how many lawyers got even more rich, all because the Jets got butthurt one time over nothing.

  171. Isn’t a league official knowingly allowing the first half of the AFL championship game without doing anything about it or not giving the Patriots – like they have in every other instance – a warning that they are suspected of doctoring the footballs CONDUCT DETRIMENTAL TO THE GAME?

  172. the CBA said nothing about it for Brett Farve either it was left up to the Commish the standard is there Farve was defiant and did something not good with his phone he was only fined I think it was 50K and no suspension
    ———————–
    He also wasn’t accused of cheating either.

  173. Cheating like what Farve did has a negative appearance on the game and the league . Something the NFL claims to want to uphold and whatever reason when a subject to an investigation is defiant there only seems to be fines levied. Also if the the NFL was so stern about upholding the integrity of the game where were they when they when the Colts and Steelers complained to the league about the Ravens illegal challenges during their games?

  174. There are more attention deficit pinheads on this blog than….. Anywhere in the world.

    I hope to God none of you vote. Actually it’s probably you morons listening to sound bites and then voting that gave us Obummer as President.

  175. You know, Brady is completely innocent in all of this. Not one fact has come out implicating him or the team in any rules violations.

    That being said, part of me truly hopes that Judge Burman rules in favor of the NFL. Just because if he does, he just empowered Goodell to do anything he damn well pleases to anybody that he feels like disrespected him or the league. All you simple minded fools refuse to comprehend that all boundaries set in place for fairness will now be removed. Anything Goodell doesn’t like could be considered a detriment to the league and then he can dole out any punishment that tickles his fancy. Not the kind of power that you want to give an egomaniac with a pension for vengeance and an iq comparable to the leagues psi rules. You fools are all rooting to create the perfect example of absolute corruption.

  176. 28 Lashes All Day says:
    Aug 8, 2015 7:16 PM

    the CBA said nothing about it for Brett Farve either it was left up to the Commish the standard is there Farve was defiant and did something not good with his phone he was only fined I think it was 50K and no suspension
    ———————–
    He also wasn’t accused of cheating either.
    ————————————

    Neither was Tom Brady.

  177. In the future, a best-selling movie will FOREVER PRESERVE the disgraceful actions of the current NFL office.

    The NFL was/is blinded by their environment (their perceived power and nobody is above them).

    NFL office, breaking news: THIS IS AMERICA!

    Also, many folks in the media took a stand against the Patriots based on fake information. Because of job security, they won’t change their views to reality.

    The NFL thought they could wiggle around their official 19 Jan. letter to Mr. Kraft that stated the tested Colts’ footballs were within the permissible PSI ranges.

    Then …. the TRUTH and WRATH of the Ideal Gas Law (IGL) deflated their paper ship.

    Most importantly, who made the decision at halftime to STOP testing the Colts’ remaining 8 footballs at half-time (only four balls tested, 3 found deflated)?

  178. It’s the conspiracy. A bank robber doesn’t get off simply because he only got $1. All this talk about PSI. If you conspire to cheat the game, and are caught, aka “deflator”, and you meet in the QB locker room to get your story straight with your conspirator, like Shady did, then you should be suspended for the season. The NFL wasn’t hard enough on Shady.

  179. johncrut says:
    Aug 8, 2015 7:38 PM
    There are more attention deficit pinheads on this blog than….. Anywhere in the world.

    I hope to God none of you vote. Actually it’s probably you morons listening to sound bites and then voting that gave us Obummer as President.
    ——-
    And you voted for Bush to create false wars for profit, which maimed and took the lives of how many troops and civilians? You must be mighty proud of yourself.

  180. I know Garapolo sucks….That I know. If you don’t know watch tape when he lost to Towson State. Yes Towson we suck at football State. So if Garopolo is your future and Suh is my DT…I think you NE douch nut fan have a problem.

  181. Using your thoughts then they weren’t hard enough on the Chargers and did nothing to the Colts and practically nothing to the Ravens as if we use the NFL’s seemingly new criteria of more probably than not well look it up

  182. The balls which were inflated to 12.5 at halftime by the referees were at 12.65 after the game. So either there were people pumping air into the balls during the second half or the referees have absolutely no idea how to measure PSI. Suspend the director of referees (for not instituting adequate procedures), institute a training plan for the referees (so it doesn’t happen again), petition the Bar association to have Ted Wells disbarred (or at least censured) for exhibiting a total lack of due professional care by issuing a report with so any contradictions and assumptions presented as facts, give back the draft picks, reinstate McNally & Jags, give Brady a token $8,500 payment (for violating the integrity of the proceedings by leaking personal emails [ the reason for the amount being $8,500 should be ] ), and move on!

  183. jchemengr says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:12 AM
    Brady opened himself up to perjury charge if he lied and yet he denied every allegation. If the two equipment guys come forward now and admit their guilt and accuse Brady, Tom would face a felony charge.

    —————————————————-

    Exactly. So why in the world would Brady REQUEST to have his testimony given under oath, knowing that if the other guys decided to snitch on him, he’d be facing a perjury charge? He never had to give his testimony under oath. Yet he did. Because either

    a) He paid the ball boys off and knew they weren’t going to snitch, ever (because that always works).

    b) There was nothing to tell, because nobody did anything wrong, and everything he said under oath, was the truth.

  184. If it’s not the rules then NE and Brady do not have to set the precedent. Legal is legal. Fair is for the kitchen table and the afterlife. This is the world we live in. Goodell can’t make the agreement say what he wants to to suit him that way even though Brady might get away with cheating this time but someone else can’t be charged falsely in the future.

  185. The problem with the bank robbery analogy is that the prosecutor must first prove a crime was committed before they can prove who did it. Whether you think balls were deflated or not and whether you think Brady was involved or not, the NFL has not made the case for either. Not even using the ‘more likely than not’ standard.

    There is a very strong possibility that no unnatural deflation occurred according to what science can be applied after the NFL’s slipshod measuring of the footballs. Even if the ball boy deflated the balls, zero evidence has been presented that Tom Brady knew of approved of it. You can think whatever you want about Brady and the Patriots, but to impose serious penalties you still need to make the case, which the NFL has not done. On top of that you have Brady under oath denying he had anything to do with it.

    The NFL has treated this as if Tom a Brady has had to prove his innocence, else he is guilty. Proving your innocence for a crime that might never had been committed is impossible. The destruction of the phone the supposed non cooperation have really been red herrings designed to distract everyone from the basic facts and lack of evidence. Tom Brady has been interviewed for hours and answered every question. He has turned over personal texts and emails which He has no legal requirement to share with his employer. While the NFL leaks misinformation and misrepresents and blatantly lies about his testimony. The NFL may win, but we all know now how cynical and corrupt the NFL office is. They are the equivalent of a prosecutor who is more interested in winning than Justice.

  186. Because Kraft has to report to 31 other owners as well. And even though he is buddies with Kraft, he can’t just let his team who has a history of cheating continue to do it. Pretty simple really…

  187. History is when a party performs repetitive events. The Pats have 2 in the last 10yrs. There are several teams with more
    Like the Colts Ravens and Jets to start with

  188. The league’s image should be very important. Yes Farve did not cheat but he did soil the league’s image by victimizing a woman. Hmm I see a pattern of the league allowing and by appearances supporting the victimizing of women. But Favre was defiant and was fined not suspended. If the league was so worried about their image with women then he should have been suspended as well.

  189. dandeman19 says:
    Aug 9, 2015 1:08 PM

    History is when a party performs repetitive events. The Pats have 2 in the last 10yrs.

    =============================
    Correction. ONCE in the past 10 years

  190. Bottom line the Wells report admitted they were uncertain ANY illegal tampering even occurred. This fact combined with the Nfl getting caught leaking FALSE information to ESPN should have killed this witch hunt a long time ago. Before this is over Brady will win and Goodell and his not too bright cronies Kensil and Vincent will be fired.

  191. gabrosin says:
    Aug 8, 2015 11:06 AM
    There is no one in the world that believes that the AFCCG is a first offense. You either believe that nothing happened, because you live in New England, or you believe that this has been going on for years, because people don’t call themselves “the Deflator” back in 2014 because they’re trying to lose weight.

    A better analogy would be discovering that the equipment managers were applying stickum to the star receiver’s gloves and had been for years. This is the first time you’ve actually caught them, but you have credible reason to believe it’s been going on for a long time.
    ————–

    The next time you get pulled over for speeding, make sure they arrest you, and throw massive jail time in it, as Im sure this isnt your first offense either.

  192. in a disciplinary action taken against an employee, it has to meet the “just cause” standard, in order to be upheld. What are some of the tests of just cause:

    Have the employees been put on clear notice about the rules? No evidence of such notice by the NFL

    Are the rules consistently and equitably enforced?
    No , the rules were never enforced, neither did anyone ever measure the PSI of balls during the game

    Is the level of discipline issued reasonably related to the seriousness of the infraction, and what is normally issued for similar infractions? No, other teams caught tampering with balls were never investigated or fined.

    Was a full, fair, and impartial investigation conducted? No, Wells was not an impartial investigator.

    the EMPLOYER has the burden of proof to show, with evidence, the infraction occurred. Judge Berman has already been told by NFL lawyers, “there is no evidence of a conspiracy”

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