NFL contends Commissioner had authority to increase Brady discipline, so why didn’t he?

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The final brief submitted by the NFL in support of the decision to suspend Patriots quarterback Tom Brady reiterates the same arguments the league already has made. In a footnote on the final page of the brief, the NFL makes a curious claim.

As to the league’s argument that the Commissioner has the authority under the Collective Bargaining Agreement to consider new evidence on appeal (e.g., Brady’s “destroyed” phone) even if that evidence was not considered in connection with the original disciplinary decision, the NFL contends that the Commissioner also had the authority to increase the suspension on appeal.

“The CBA provides that, in appeals of fines imposed for unnecessary roughness or unsportsmanlike conduct on the playing field with respect to another player, the discipline ‘may only be affirmed, reduced, or vacated by the hearing officer, and may not be increased,'” the NFL asserts in footnote 4 at the bottom of page 8 of its latest legal brief. “The CBA imposes no such limitation on the Commissioner’s decision in appeals such as this one involving discipline imposed under Article 46, Section 1(a) for conduct detrimental to the integrity of the game.”

OK, fine. Then why didn’t “The Enforcer” increase the discipline once learning that Brady had “destroyed” his phone?

As we noted on July 29, “Goodell calls the development ‘very troubling’ at page 13 of the ruling, accusing Brady of a ‘deliberate effort to ensure that investigators would never have access to information he had been asked to produce,’ of ‘conceal[ing] potentially relevant evidence to undermine the investigation,’ and of ‘conceal[ing] for months that he had destroyed the cellphone requested by the investigators.’ In other words, Goodell determined that this new information meant Brady hadn’t simply failed to cooperate with the investigation but that he had affirmatively obstructed it. Which, if true, should have resulted in new and enhanced penalties.”

The failure to increase the suspension, if as the NFL claims Goodell had the power to do it, bolsters the notion that “Tom Brady destroyed his phone” was a calculated P.R. ploy that could be sold while brushing off the opportunity to reconstruct the text messages on the destroyed phone based on the list of phone numbers with which Brady communicated. If the discipline had been enhanced, the NFL’s refusal to attempt to track down messages sent to and received by Brady from 28 team and league personnel would have been more glaring, and it would have received far more scrutiny from the media and, more importantly, from the federal judge considering whether to uphold or scrap the suspension.

169 responses to “NFL contends Commissioner had authority to increase Brady discipline, so why didn’t he?

  1. Excepe he could. The NFL is throwing literal garbage at the wall and trying to see what sticks. This reeks of desperation. This, combined with multiple reports over the last week saying that owners are getting impatient and losing confidence in Goodell PLUS owners more than willing to consider completely independent arbitration for player discipline now spells trouble for the NFL and for Goodell.

  2. Uh oh! Out of smear bullets Roger? Prepare for another loss. At least you can assure Irsay, Bisciotti, and Woody (what an impressive crew!) you gave it the old Washington & Jefferson try.

  3. Warren Buffett once said “You should invest in businesses that a fool can run, because someday, a fool will”.

    There are 32 very wealthy owners that better hope that a fool can run the NFL, because there is no doubt there is a fool at the helm.

  4. The more it goes, the more the NFL looks like a bunch of amateurs.

    How in the world were they able to drag this this long ? Oh yeah, the false report in January…

  5. The NFL’s briefs basically say the Commissioner can make tons of mistakes and deliberately mischaracterize testimony but that doesn’t matter because the Commissioner has final say and there is nothing the Court can do about it.

    Squish the Commish Judge Berman!

  6. NFL contends Commissioner had authority to increase Brady discipline, so why didn’t he?

    Kraft… pffft. You said it. “Owners”.

    There’s more to this situation than cub reporter Jay Glazer can hope to expose. And it’s all coming to fruition during the “first week of football.” Hmm.. You exposed the whole “long weekend bad news,” now:

    It’s allll good when football’s on TV.

    Woodward and Bernstein are dying here, man. BREAK THE STORY!

    Take the flag!

    btw: This is THE only corporation that’s operating and dragging in profits the way it does. Who’s making bank the way the NFL is right now?

    Shoot: we’re seeing constitution arguments from the fans concerning Brady. Really? When has the constitution applied to a COMPANY?

    When?? Anyone?

    THAT is why unions were formed. Sucks. Hate unions, but, just saying……

  7. It’s clear Brady was cheating on his wife. He didn’t want to give up his phone and that is why. He offered up the information involving the patsy. The reason he broke his phone is deeper than football. Unless of course there was a second deflator in the bathroom that only Brady knows about.

  8. Thank you Roger Goodell. And thanks for not seizing our wives and homes. For you, Roger Goodell, are the all powerful king of football and you are not bound by rules or common decency.

  9. The league is like a dog chasing its own tail. It’s funny at first, then it becomes more and more absurd. I hope the judge makes Goodell testify, along with the other buffoons-I mean league execs-especially Kensil. Put Jastremski and McNally on, too. They were interviewed extensively by Wells, but their testimony was curiously omitted from report. Kessler offered Goodell the chance to interview them, and he declined. Must be a reason.

  10. Frankly, I think 4 games is getting off light, given the obstruction of the investigation. But, rules have never seemed to apply to Brady, no matter how far they were bent and/or broken, just for the win …..imho… Apply the same to BB!
    Regarding the unflattering text about Manning…..Manning has more integrity in his pinkie than Brady will EVER have!!!

  11. Wondering if we would have known about the Brady email offer if the trascript was sealed. To clarify, if Berman had not refused to accept sealed transcripts would an increased fine have opened legal avenues for the NFLPA that would force the NFL to reveal the Brady offer?

  12. 3 simple facts of physics are completely lost on goodell. 1: Air pressure drops in the cold. 2: Air pressure increases in warmth. 3: one cannot dig himself out of a hole. Fact #3 is becoming glaringly apparent.
    With any luck this will cost him his job.

  13. Funny that “spike of communication volume” becomes evidence of guilt, “routine disposal of cell phone while all messages are available” becomes evidence of guilt. Not to mention so many lies by Goodell. When did American law practice come to ridicule?!

  14. My take is this. The NFLPA’s best shot here is to convince Berman to vacate due to improper notice of penalty or convince him to vacate because Goodell was clearly not impartial. The fact that Goodell changed the mode of the offense from “general awareness” to outright participation in a “scheme” may be stupid and not supported anywhere by factual evidence (because Goodell is a proven idiot) but the CBA (ridiculously) likely gives him the authority to do this. Basically Berman has to be convinced that even knowing ball deflation (assuming it happened, that’s not what’s on trial here, even though we all no nothing happened) would be conduct detrimental that Brady had no notice it could lead to a suspension and only had notice of a fine as penalty. This seems like a coin flip to me.
    The real reason to vacate this is that Goodell was clearly not an impartial arbiter. And that can be proven by the LIES that have now been exposed between his appeal ruling and the actual unsealed testimony.
    Who unsealed that testimony, Judge Berman. Who asked questions of evidence and proof in the initial hearing when he didn’t have to, Judge Berman. (even though he may have been inducing the NFL to settle). This has me leaning to Berman ruling for Brady but it’s still a very close call. I think it’s interesting that the NFL does not address and rebut any of the potential qualifications that the NFLPA is siting that an arbitration can be vacated, their brief is just a long winded way of saying – Goodell has final authority and the courts can’t do anything about it no matter what.

  15. If it isn’t completely clear, to all but the insane, that Roger Goodell and the National Football League hell bent on stopping the perennial dominant Patriots, created a scripted scam to take Belichick and collaterally Brady down.

  16. NFL is setting up its attempt at Union busting, or at least diminishing what power the weakest union in pro sports has left. If they can take down Brady for a fictitious scandal, who can stop them?

  17. there is so much bad info and lying from the nfl I think its time to call your congressmen and start an investigation, call them and ask to investigate, owners will pay attention THEN!!!!

  18. Brady was unbelievably fortunate to get Berman as the judge, and so were the rest of us. My faith in the legal system is restored. Regardless of how the legal case is settled the release of the transcript altered the narrative forever in the court of public opinion. The NFL’s purposeful duplicity is on record and there is no way that they can hide it. As if the NFLPA needed another reason they will never trust Goodell or his minions again. Nor will any individual owner who is faced with a process like this one.

  19. No one is addressing the fact that the original Mortenson – ESPN leak was erroneous. Or the fact that the Patriots organization asked the NFL to correct the facts yet they didn’t. That not 11 of the 12 balls were under inflated by 2 PSI. I believe only one was close to under 2 PSI and that is the one that the Colts ball boy handed to the ref. only 3 to 4 others were under inflated by less than .45 PSI. Or that out of the 4 Colts balls checked 2 were underinflated by .5 PSI of the lower end 12.5 PSI.
    It seems to me Goodell and the NFL wanted to embarrass the Patiots. Could it be pressure from a team that puts up “participation banners” or a team that had a coach out coached because he was unaware of the rules. Then the team had the rules changed? Nah… That wouldn’t happen right. Goodell was on a witch hunt and the truth is coming out. Brady will be playing in week one and the NFL and Goodell will have more than egg on their faces.

  20. Goodell’s greed makes him the perfect puppet for the owners. He’s spineless and only in his position because the owners know he’ll do what they want. He sold his soul and tarnished Brady forever for $44 Million rather than doing what’s right. Unfortunately, he won’t be fired because (much like Wells) he’s doing exactly what his bosses are asking for.

    The end of Pash’s e-mail to Robyn Glaser is very telling. “I work for the Patriots as well as 31 other clubs…” Goodell is the puppet but the owners are the ones pulling the strings.

  21. Why not simply ask the NFL to provide calibration certifications on the equipment used to perform the air tests. If they cannot produce it, the results are flawed and invalid. Case over. But this is not about facts, as the investigation chose to ignore real evidence, but resulted in a loose case of connect the dots.

    P.s. I’m not a Patriots fan.

  22. So what do we do when the commissioner and owners have violated article 46, section 1(a)?

    Owners should have to sign this too as they are the ones with the greatest effect on the game.

  23. I hope Judge Berman can see through the NFL’s fraudulent attempt to maintain Brady’s discipline. Goodall and Co., under the guise of protecting the integrity of the game, has sullied TB’s reputation, but just as importantly has focused on maintaining power in the commissioner’s office at the expense fundamental fairness.

    One point alone should result in an overturning of the penalty: Pash admitted there was no direct evidence linking TB to deflated balls in the AFC Championship. Why should any commissioner, whether or not a CBA is in place, punish the game’s most successful player without direct evidence of wrongdoing? The standard cited by Wells of more probable than not and general awareness is grossly unfair and should be rejected by the Court.

    From the initial leak to Mortensen, and then failing to correct it, to lying about Wells’s independence, to lying about TB’s testimony in the Appeal, right through this latest brief filed in U.S. D. Ct., Goodell and his henchmen (especially, Vincent, Wells and Pash) have behaved abominably.

    I hope Berman writes a scathing opinion granting TB an injunction and that later, the Billionaire’s Club aka the NFL owners, read it and finally realize that Emperor Goodell has no clothes. If so, his last 3 punishments of note: Rice, Peterson and TB, will have been overturned. What’s the expression? 3 strikes and you’re out! It’s time for the Ginger Hammer and his $43M salary to ride some pine.

  24. All I can say is I can’t stand goodell or the nfl

    I watch the game because of the players and coaches

    And of course the game itself – we all love the game

    goodell and his goons in New York did not make it popular, they haven’t improved it or the it’s revenue

    it’s the players and coaches that do that

    I would stop watching the game if only the liar team owners and goodell were involved in it

    I am not a Brady or Patriots fan, but a new enemy can unite 2 old enemies – I would rather Brady and the Patriots win (they are a nemesis to my team) than goodell and his goons in NY

  25. Goodell not only lacks “unquestionable integrity” – he lacks any at all

    Same for the owners who thumb their nose at their own sacred NFL Constitution and Bylaws, Article VIII of which states clearly that a man of such low integrity cannot serve as Commissioner

    They cite their Constitution as the source of their power yet refuse to comply with their own rules

    Ironic that the self proclaimed protectors of the integrity of the game are the ones who destroyed it

  26. One thing’s for sure, nobody should turn over their phone to the NFL. Not Brady, not Farve, not nobody.

    No matter how discreet Goodell promises to be, their record for leaks, even in just this case, is shameful. You’re likely to be watching TV with your babe and ESPN will produce last year’s sexting session.

    Burn it, break it, bury it, but do NOT give it to Goodell.

  27. Normally these appeals reduce the penalty. So Brady should have expected a 1-2 game reduction. So his phone ploy forced Goodell to give him a full 4 game penalty.

  28. Maybe Goode!l didn’t want to deao with the P.R. firestorm that woukd have erupted if he’d imposed a suspension on Brady for smashing his cell phone in excess of the suspension just handed down to Greg Hardy for doing much, much worse to his former girlfriend.

  29. “Goodell calls the development ‘very troubling’ at page 13 of the ruling, accusing Brady of a ‘deliberate effort to ensure that investigators would never have access to information he had been asked to produce,’ of ‘conceal[ing] potentially relevant evidence to undermine the investigation,’ and of ‘conceal[ing] for months that he had destroyed the cellphone requested by the investigators.’
    _______________________________________
    Which completely ignores the fact that the NFL had no authority to compel Brady to hand over the phone in the first place. They can ask for it, but they can’t demand it, and punishing him for not handing it over would be a violation on the league’s part. So, how is destroying something that (short of hiring someone to break into his home and steal his private property) they were never going to get undermining their investigation?

  30. If the ruling the thrown out, it will be the end of the CBA.

    At that point, all players will consider legal action in response to any fine or punishment. Why shouldn’t they? If the negotiated power they GAVE the commissioner is not ironclad, why should they listen to anything? PED usage will increase, as will cheating.

    Likewise, in the light of this, teams will also just shrug off the negotiated rules of the league. They’ll simply refuse to pay fines for salary cap violations, and collusion will return in full force.

    The term “game changer” is overused, but this ruling is one. The integrity of the entire league is at stake. While the hate for Goodall may be justified for many reasons, that should be fixed by the league. A federal judge basically setting fire to the power of the CBA effectively kills the ability of the league to set any enforceable standards.

  31. He didn’t increase discipline on appeal because the heads of you and other Brady apologists would have exploded.

  32. Thank you PFT for keep hammering away at the rediculous arguments the NFL office keeps throwing out in this case and all the other controversies Goodell has bungled through the years. This embarrassment to the league lies squarely on the shoulders of Goodell. For those that want to blame Brady I say whether or not you think he is innocent there is a way the NFL office should handle any investigation and disciplinary actions. Players are going to be accused of poor conduct….but if there is no faith in the NFL system to handle it that’s a bigger issue. Goodell and his office have already proved on record to be liars in the Ray Rice case and the Brady case. Plus the shady dealings in the Bountygate case.

  33. Why are Your leanings so pro-league, when even a Freshman in high-school of average intelligence knows not to destroy evidence in a legal proceeding. Brady deserves 4 games for that alone, regardless of whether there was deflation.

  34. Brady Cheated! Why not, His coach Cheats, the “Weasel Nation” does not mind and the Owner will back it all! whine on! Shine the tarnish off the trophy. Slither ON!

  35. I appreciate you staying on this and putting out a fair analysis. Most media are taking the easy way out on this.

    I don’t understand why the League and/or Mort aren’t pressed to the wall to explain the false information at the outset.

  36. The power the NFL has is insane. How can such irrational people make these types of decisions. “What direct evidence do you have linking Mr. Brady to the deflation of footballs?”…..”None.” Lol- are people being serious right now???? “He performed better with properly inflated footballs, so you could say he had no competitive advantage at all.” ….”Yes.” This is absurd and I hope TB12 drops the hammer and sues the league for 300million for defamation of character.

  37. Let’s see Goodell phone. The one he had to call

    Jones and ask how much should we penalize

    Brady? 4 games so he doesn’t play against those

    cowboys..Knew before championship game and

    let game go on

  38. More lies…who’s surprised?

    This case will be thought in countless science & legal classes for years to come…Railroading 101…

  39. Just when you think that the NFL has reached an all time new low in trying to protect themselves from ridicule (Goodell, Kensil, Vincent, etc), new information comes out to show that there is no limit to the depth that the Commissioner and his cronies are willing to go. Lower than Pond Scum.

  40. At one point I thought Goodell and the NFL were devious, concluding the Patriots were guilty of cheating before doing any investigation, and then slanting said investigation to come up with the results they wanted.

    Now I think they are simply stupid, and stumbled along here having no idea how to investigate, how to interpret the findings, what to conclude and how to explain their decision.

  41. niwotian2014 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 2:00 AM
    He didn’t increase discipline on appeal because the heads of you and other Brady apologists would have exploded.
    ====================================
    NOOOOOO my friend..He didn’t make it worse because it would have BEEN blatant ABUSE of his powers!!! You and other fools might have been there applauding BUT most everyoe would have seen what HE WAS..and rebelled!!! Better to smear Brady more, make accusations and the like!! Badel has been dumb…then dumber and NOW the dumbest ONE!!! He is taking the road to destroying it…which is HARD to do!! BUT he is going to give it a go!!

  42. kyblue33 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 5:12 AM
    Brady Cheated! Why not, His coach Cheats, the “Weasel Nation” does not mind and the Owner will back it all! whine on! Shine the tarnish off the trophy. Slither ON!

    ____

    Funny that someone who roots for the University of Kentucky would be so hard on a team for cheating. Wow, man, look in the mirror. Calipari is the biggest snake of all!!!

  43. If Brady was truly trying to hide something he wouldn’t of provided league with list of who he sent text to. If they league wanted to they could of contacted those people in an attempt to get text from them. But of course this might not support their predetermined outcome. Basically the Ginger Hammer is saying it’s my damned ball and I can do what I please. Now that will work good in court…

  44. I put this entire Deflategate, Spygate saga all on Kraft and Belichick, thinking that by consciously ignoring or not addressing an issue directly it will go away. In fact it does the opposite, it evergreens it.

    The Patriots are perennial cheaters because management stood by and did nothing in defense of the coach, the players and the organization, thus allowing this meme take on a life of its own. They need to Al Davis this out of existence by suing the league for half a billion dollars.

    Notice when talk of a Brady defamation suit hit, the Silvers and Poulians shut the h up. Well, they’re still there, waiting on the judge’s decision and hoping Brady takes a fine with or without a suspension so they will be safe to regurgitate this undigestible mess in the future ad nauseam.

  45. There are now rumors of Brady and Giselle’s marriage having problems, and their main form of communication has come down to texts. If true, I can certainly understand why he doesn’t want his phone and most private texts in the hands of the National Football Leak.

  46. lostsok says:
    Aug 15, 2015 1:14 AM
    If the ruling the thrown out, it will be the end of the CBA.

    At that point, all players will consider legal action in response to any fine or punishment. Why shouldn’t they? If the negotiated power they GAVE the commissioner is not ironclad, why should they listen to anything? PED usage will increase, as will cheating.

    Likewise, in the light of this, teams will also just shrug off the negotiated rules of the league. They’ll simply refuse to pay fines for salary cap violations, and collusion will return in full force.

    The term “game changer” is overused, but this ruling is one. The integrity of the entire league is at stake. While the hate for Goodall may be justified for many reasons, that should be fixed by the league. A federal judge basically setting fire to the power of the CBA effectively kills the ability of the league to set any enforceable standards.
    ==================================
    No actually it won’t be the end of the CBA at all.
    You are making NO sense at all by what you are proposing. SO the judge LIMITS what Goodell can do…THAT is what should happen. SO if the judge LIMITS it then all will break rules??? THAT is laughable my friend. Where does FAIRNESS come ito all this?? Ohhh…that never entered your mind did it?? Do some reading and see what OTHER equipment violations similar were treated. read the Wells report and the Wells report in context and see which is closer to correct.
    Goodell CAN rule, but it must be FAIR and what HE has done is light years from fairness!!!
    Integrity of the league??? THAT is laughable…Goodell has stained the integrity by his actions…THE LEAGUE itself has done MORE to undermine its integrity than ANYTHING Brady has come close to doing!!
    Clean house Goodell, Vincent, Kensil, Gardi and others..GONE!! THAT will start to clean up this mess…If you think this will be a game changer…go find another sport to follow. NFSmells!!! ANd until those leave..it will never be better!!

  47. Simple. Because the NFL will suspend him for obstructing the investigation by destroying his phone and for lying to investigators at the same time after Jastremski and McNally testify under oath.

  48. Let’s all remember – this PR ploy of Goodell fabricating new accusations out of thin air would have been accepted as FACT by the Haters and the public if not for one thing

    The Transcripts were forcibly made public by Judge Berman

    And who didn’t want them made public?

    Goodell and the Owners

    And who LEAKED info that said it was the NFLPA – not the NFL – that was afraid of releasing the transcripts? Goodell and the owners once again (keep that in mind – just 2 weeks ago Goodell was STILL using ESPN as a propaganda tool)

    Does this go over the heads of the Haters? That’s PROOF that Goodell and 31 owners are purposefully slandering Tom Brady

  49. Article 46 of the CBA is presupposes they use evidence when applying it. Tagliabue knew that and used it wisely Goodell uses it to punish as he sees fit. Berman is perfectly within his right to ask to see the evidence. If any thing Berman is saving the CBA from a person drunk with power.

    After the last few weeks with this investigation finally out of league hands, how can anyone take the league office seriously? Six months wasted over something that was resolvable 2 days after it happened,

  50. Funny that “spike in communication volume” becomes the evidence of guilt, “routine disposal of cellphone while all messages are available” becomes the evidence of guilt. Not to mention so many lies by Goodell. When did American law practice become ridicule?

  51. Goodell didn’t increase the suspension for the same reasons he didn’t suspend Belichick and let him use ignorance as an excuse. Goodell is a Patriots fan.

  52. say it with me:
    the league is making it up as it goes along

    the pitchfork mob set a trap, came up empty, and skewered the sucker anyway.

    everything else is backfill to rationalize an illogical and indefensible prosecution, so of course it makes no sense.

  53. Just another pro-Pats post to get 300 or so Pats fans who have religiously followed this story and given up much of their real lives to make a post about “free Brady”, “fire Goodell”, or something similar.

    Maybe the destroyed phone gave Goodell the final info he needed to NOT REDUCE the original punishment on appeal.

    But either way, I just want this entire boring story to go away and a final ruling be made.

    Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    No matter what happens, Brady and the Pats are cheaters in my book and anything they ever accomplished means nothing to me.

  54. Why didn’t he suspend him for more games? Back room deal with Kraft, THAT’S why. This whole thing has been nothing but smoke and mirrors from the outset. 4 games (or possibly even less) for Brady and zero games for Belichick is a joke.

  55. I thought rules and common sense went out the door a long time ago when the NFL set precedent that they could levy such ridiculous fines without prior written warning.

    Mike, who but you thinks of this kind of stuff? You keeping notes for a ‘book’ to be released later this year?

  56. “No matter what happens, Brady and the Pats are cheaters in my book and anything they ever accomplished means nothing to me.”

    Because of one deflated football? Glad no one cares about “your book.’

    You know what, I HOPE my QB adjusts the footballs so he’s comfortable throwing them. He’s stupid if he doesn’t. Really, why do we have rules about P.S.I.? Some like them a little softer, so what?

  57. I’d like to ask non- Patriot fans this hypothetical question:

    You are at work and are accused of some serious wrongdoings. (No matter if you are guilty or not.) You are brought in for questioning by the President of the company and others that are involved in discipline. After cooperating with them and answering all of their questions, they then ask you for your PERSONAL phone to read e-mails and texts…………

    What would you do??

  58. Belichick is lucky to skate without a suspension…Brady is lucky he’s only getting 4 games after destroying his phone. It’s obvious he was rewarding JJ and McNally for taking care of his balls just how he likes them. No deflate balls how he likes, no get rewards.

  59. Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.

  60. Good article that leads me to two questions: 1)Why did the NFL have to get to the point that it’s dictated by lawyers? 2)And why are we at a point where the fans have to have the goings-on explained by a lawyer? Unfortunately, the answer is MONEY and that’s sad. Football should be a game of physicality and strategy and not be ruined by pencil necked geeks getting in the middle.

  61. thekiddone says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:34 AM

    Normally these appeals reduce the penalty. So Brady should have expected a 1-2 game reduction. So his phone ploy forced Goodell to give him a full 4 game penalty.
    ——————————

    No one forced the Emperor to do anything. The phone just afforded him a convenient, phony baloney excuse to keep the suspension at 4 games.

  62. goingthextramile says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:47 AM

    Belichick is lucky to skate without a suspension…Brady is lucky he’s only getting 4 games after destroying his phone. It’s obvious he was rewarding JJ and McNally for taking care of his balls just how he likes them. No deflate balls how he likes, no get rewards.
    ————————-

    Of course they deflate the footballs to Tom Brady’s preference. That is their job. Only an idiot would think that new footballs come out of the package at 12.5PSI.

    The process is detailed by Tom Brady in his appeal testimony, that the NFL tried to keep secret.

  63. This story asks if Goodell has the authority to increase the suspension, why didn’t he? Here is my take:
    whether you believe the Patriots cheated or not it is very clear that the NFL is trying very hard to win in the court of public opinion. The NFL has put out false information that does not get corrected and instead of recognizing potential flaws in their arguments, like for instance what an independent arbitrator might do, they change the criteria. Goodell might as well state just when you think you have all the answers I change the questions.

    The NFLPA is correct in this being a defamation scheme. I can think of three common reasons why an organization might try to publicly defame another individual or group.
    – The other group is your enemy (TV game show survivor)
    – You are competing with the other group. (Politics)
    – Cover your own behind ****

    To me it is obvious that the NFL made numerous mistakes from the start and instead of correcting the record, they keep doubling down to save face and their jobs.

  64. insightfulcomments says:
    Aug 15, 2015 6:07 AM

    Why is destroyed in quotes?
    —————————

    Because it is nothing more than a buzzword that Emperor Goodell used about 20 times in order to rile up the Hater Faithful.

    As per usual for this witchhunt, the truth didn’t fit the narrative of the NFL scam against Tom Brady.

  65. nflexecutivesconstantlylie says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:06 AM
    Is there a better word than scum anyone can offer to describe the NFL executive office? I need something more accurate, mort descriptive.
    ___________________________________
    Sorry, but I don’t think this site allows us to post comments using that kind of language.

  66. Just a theoretical assumption. If Goodell is accused of having sex with his office assistant, suddenly he has a lot more than usual conversations with his assistant, does that mean he really did it?

    spike of communication volume. lol.

  67. brendafortheboyz says:
    Aug 14, 2015 11:12 PM
    Frankly, I think 4 games is getting off light, given the obstruction of the investigation. But, rules have never seemed to apply to Brady, no matter how far they were bent and/or broken, just for the win …..imho… Apply the same to BB!
    Regarding the unflattering text about Manning…..Manning has more integrity in his pinkie than Brady will EVER have!!!

    ====
    I see where your jealousy of Brady/Patriots comes from, you’re either a Colt or Bronco fan. I also see your simplistic regurgitation of message board lore. Let’s set this current fiasco aside, what exactly has Brady gotten away with? Which rules haven’t applied to Brady and the Patriots?

    So you think Manning has more than 2 years left? Which part wasn’t true? Brady can’t have a private conversation with a friend and state his opinion?

    Please stick to cutting that meat or eating a chicken parm sandwich or whatever else Manning hawks.

  68. The NFL’s general counsel and outside counsel advised Goodell it was proper to delegate the responsibility or three important roles, that normally would be segregated duties, to Troy Vincent:

    1. lead the investigation

    2. determine guilt or innocence

    3. set the penalty if guilt established

    Counsel’s intent was to bifurcate those roles from Goodell so that he could be the arbiter, that way the NFL would have total control over the process.

    Those same lawyers had Vincent to take on these roles despite the fact that his senior adviser was the father of an executive with the Colts, the team that leveled the charges against the Patriots and Brady and appear to have leaked it to the media. Normally, in any organization, such a conflict of interest would have required Vincent to recuse himself.

    Despite the conflict, the fact the early in the investigation the facts revealed there was no evidence of deflation, GM Grigson could produce no individual to support his claim that “everyone” knew the Patriots deflated footballs because Brady liked a “small” ball, and there was no direct evidence that Brady had done anything improper the NFL proceeded to smear Brady though lies spread mostly through ESPN and attributed to league sources.

    Despicable, and 31 owners should be held responsible for letting their boys do these dirty deeds.

  69. Because even though Brady was guilty and, in truth, probably should’ve gotten eight games, he knows its bad for the league to have the biggest name QB of a flagship franchise and the reigning SB champ not playing for an extended period.

    It would also anger advertisers (read: the NFL’s biggest clients) who have paid big bucks for prime time games featuring that star QB.

    The fact is, Goodell probably never wanted to be in a position to suspend Brady. What would be the possible upside for the NFL to come down on him? But given the evidence — and let’s face it, those texts between the equipment guys say it all — they had to do something.

    Brady is guilty, should serve his four games, and get on with the season. Period.

  70. couchpotatodad says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:51 AM
    Maybe Goode!l didn’t want to deao with the P.R. firestorm that woukd have erupted if he’d imposed a suspension on Brady for smashing his cell phone in excess of the suspension just handed down to Greg Hardy for doing much, much worse to his former girlfriend.
    ___________________________________
    Additionally, imposing further punishment for the destruction of the cell phone would open the NFL up to yet another serious law suit. The NFL can ask for Brady’s phone, but they have no standing to demand it. Since they can’t require that it be handed over, punishing him for not doing so would violate labor law. It’s private property, and the NFL is not a law enforcement agency.

    P.S. That’s why I don’t understand people buying into the narrative that the destruction of the phone constitutes obstruction or indicates guilt. Brady knew he didn’t have to hand it over, and was already on record as refusing to do so. The NFL couldn’t subpoena it for their investigation. So, why would Brady need to destroy it to keep the league from getting whatever was on it? They were never going to get it anyway.

  71. Judge Berman was very astute to have the first hearing focus on facts and guilt versus innocence because up until that time the NFL had a monopoly on the dissemination of information. By releasing the transcript he only let out a trickle of facts but, along with his direct questions of the NFL, he exposed Goodell and his minions as frauds and liars.

    Having been exposed, most people would cut a deal but not the NFL. Judge Berman can now vacate the suspension without the NFL pretending (with any credibility) that it was improper judicial activism.

  72. The NFL is treading on thin ice here….if the judge takes this as an implied challenge to his order to negotiate (i.e. – we can make this even worse, your honor)….you just don’t do that to any judge much less a federal judge with a no-nonsense reputation. Here’s to the “Enforcer” getting clobbered in court because he and his gang played cutesy with the judge!

    Fire Goodell!!!!

  73. I find it humorus how you jealous trolls take facts and twist them around to meet your need to think you are right and Brady is wrong. Then again, you are like the owners that support this witch hunt. If you can’t beat them on the field, make excuses and beat them off the field even if you have to make something up and lie about it (see Roger Goodell) in the process.

    FACT The largest comeback in Super Bowl history against one of the best defenses with properly inflated footballs! Keep on whining while we keep on winning!

  74. This is interesting, each time I post this is gets removed. Something funny going on. Apparently reporting accuracy is not allowed here. Either that or Haternation is pitching a hissy and having these removed.

    Remember Colts D’Qwell Jackson, the guy who intercepted a Brady pas and first noticed that the ball was soft?
    Add that to the lies.

    That was a lie. Proven lie. Gee Mort, why didn’t that hit your twitter feed? Oh yeah, you’re still figuring out Twitter (another lie).

    Whatever happened to the game ball stealing ref? Remember him? They hustled him off PDQ now didn’t they? Ravens knew balls were missing so they call the Colts, which they lied about as well, and told them something funny was going on with balls.

    So again,

    Jackson had nothing to do with this. Colts had that ball on the sidelines and tested it (pffffftt) which BTW is against the rules. So they turn over a ball they deflated if not on purpose then by “testing” (nudge wink) the pressure. No penalty?

  75. holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:54 AM
    Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.

    ——————————————————
    1. He was not called “the deflator”. His nickname was “Bird” (Brady thought he was “Burt”). He called HIMSELF the “deflator” ONCE in all the thousands of texts they reviewed, in the off-season, 8 months before the game in question. If he was called “the deflator”, don’t you think it would be there more than once?
    2. Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take the footballs out to the field in the second half of the AFCC game (It’s in the Wells report- check it out)? Apparently he always did so- part of his duties as officials attendant.
    3. Why did he go to the bathroom? He is a 50-ish year old, overweight man. He needed to take a leak. It is a plausible reason- you need to disprove it with convincing evidence. Simply assuming a nefarious reason is not enough.
    4. Brady gave a lot of signed merchandise to JJ and JJ funneled some of it McNally. Why? Apparently NFL players give signed merchandise to team employees all the time- since they are usually very poorly paid. Think of it as an equivalent of a tip to the maid service in a hotel- except that giving signed merch typically costs the player nothing.

    So here are your answers- but I guarantee you will not accept them. So why even bother asking for them?

  76. The Biggest Deflator starring JJ, Jim McNally, and Tom Brady. Where the balls are allways nice and soft for the Brady Bunch.

  77. wayne1693 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 3:43 AM

    Why are Your leanings so pro-league, when even a Freshman in high-school of average intelligence knows not to destroy evidence in a legal proceeding. Brady deserves 4 games for that alone, regardless of whether there was deflation.
    ____

    Your point is valid now, but this wasn’t a legal proceeding until Brady made it one. It was a work place shake-down. What would you say if your boss asked for your phone?

    Ok, so you say he should have nothing to hide, and giving up the phone should be no big deal…fair point. But the NFL leaks info almost daily for their own purposes, so anything on that phone could become public instantly. Let’s just see what that might be….

    -Contact info
    -emails
    -call records
    -apps/activity
    -text records and contents
    -browsing and search history
    -photos and videos

    If I am Tom Brady, and my wife is Giselle, I have been in movies and on TV, I know famous players, coaches, models, actors, directors, and producers, prominent businessmen, reporters, promoters, agents, lawyers, and who knows what else…I would NEVER turn that information over to my employer, if only to protect my contacts.

  78. Themikegun say:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:34 AM
    There are now rumors of Brady and Giselle’s marriage having problems, and their main form of communication has come down to texts. If true, I can certainly understand why he doesn’t want his phone and most private texts in the hands of the National Football Leak.
    ————-
    Um, what rumors? The only mention of rumors of this sort are seen from haters in these forums. Can you cite a source? Or are you just acting like Goodell and Wells and writing fiction?

  79. holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:54 AM
    Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.

    —–

    For those who believe in justice and fair play and accuracy no explanation is necessary, for those who have already made up their minds that pats cheat no explanation is possible.

    Don’t give in to hate, it leads to the Dark Side.

  80. armchairqb says:
    Aug 15, 2015 9:34 AM

    The fact is, Goodell probably never wanted to be in a position to suspend Brady. What would be the possible upside for the NFL to come down on him? But given the evidence — and let’s face it, those texts between the equipment guys say it all — they had to do something.

    Brady is guilty, should serve his four games, and get on with the season. Period
    ————————-

    The NFL has no evidence against Tom Brady. They already admitted it to Judge Berman.

    The texts are not pertinent to the events surrounding the AFFCG, as Judge Berman has already stated.

    Goodell had to have wanted Tom Brady suspended, or none of this would ever have seen the light of day.

    The instant that the NFL learned that footballs lose air pressure when it is cold, this whole sham should have come to a screeching halt, and retractions and apologies sent out.

  81. Here’s the thing that none of you “Patriots cheated!” people can answer:

    You all accept that the Patriots’s footballs lost air pressure, you don’t believe in the Ideal Gas Law, and conclude that this means the Patriots intentionally deflated them ……

    But you ignore the fact that 3 of the 4 Colts footballs ALSO lost air pressure. Balls the Patriots had no control over.

    How do you explain THAT?????

    If there is no such thing as an Ideal Gas Law, that can only mean that the Colts deflated THEIR balls, too …… right?

    So how come Andrew Luck isn’t in front of Roger Gooddell?

  82. Aug 15, 2015 8:42 AM
    I’d like to ask non- Patriot fans this hypothetical question:

    You are at work and are accused of some serious wrongdoings. (No matter if you are guilty or not.) You are brought in for questioning by the President of the company and others that are involved in discipline. After cooperating with them and answering all of their questions, they then ask you for your PERSONAL phone to read e-mails and texts…………

    What would you do??
    ________________________________________

    I was hoping for an answer from the many Patriot haters to this simple question.

    It would be great to hear from a Patriot Hater that is ALSO a Union Member. A shop steward perhaps?

  83. Plus he took it from generally aware to “‘knew about, approved of, consented to, and provided inducements’ in support of a scheme to tamper with the game balls used in the AFC Championship Game.” That would also merit an increase in the suspension. I’d argue a year if I was Roger and took integrity of the game seriously. Of course, it’s all PR as you noted, so that’s why he didn’t.

  84. Perhaps what they are trying to argue by implication is that since Goodell had the power to increase the suspension with the new evidence, he balanced that against a probable reduction. By extension, those two things offset each other (reduction and additional punishment) and so what is left is the original punishment.

  85. The CBA says the commissioner can hand out punishment “AS WARRANTED”. That implies his punishments must be justified, presumably in the eyes of somebody other than himself. If such justification is only up to him, why even put the term in the agreement?

  86. joe6606 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:02 AM

    you cannot reconstruct iMessage conversations. once deleted they are gone. forever, with no way to retrieve them.
    ———————————————————-
    Brady didn’t have an iphone in the first place, he had a Samsung android, which he got rid of for a new iphone 6.

    Try to at least follow along, if you’re going to comment 😉

  87. j0esixpack says:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:50 AM
    Let’s all remember – this PR ploy of Goodell fabricating new accusations out of thin air would have been accepted as FACT by the Haters and the public if not for one thing

    The Transcripts were forcibly made public by Judge Berman

    And who didn’t want them made public?

    Goodell and the Owners

    And who LEAKED info that said it was the NFLPA – not the NFL – that was afraid of releasing the transcripts? Goodell and the owners once again (keep that in mind – just 2 weeks ago Goodell was STILL using ESPN as a propaganda tool)

    Does this go over the heads of the Haters? That’s PROOF that Goodell and 31 owners are purposefully slandering Tom Brady
    —–

    Your post makes me think that if the judge does call witnesses it will be to probe whether or not Wells notes are, in fact, covered under attorney/client privilege –was this an independent investigation or was Wells acting as an attorney for the NFL…the judge may be looking for a way to get those notes out into the public (he said he thinks nothing should be sealed)…..if that’s true, it’s typical of the NFL to answer that by saying “commissioner could have increased the penalty”…it’s what they do every time–they double down when they’re in trouble.

  88. I hope Berman calls more witnesses

    Ball stealing Ref – Love to hear that story
    Mortensen – reveal your source or face contempt charges.
    McNally – because I want to know the truth
    Jastremski – same reason
    Anyone form the Ravens or Colts who touched this in any way.
    And the big one, Walt Anderson. – I want to hear him try that “best recollection” blather on someone not on Goodells payroll.

    Let’s get it ALL out there in the light. Let the chips fall where they may.

  89. joe6606 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:02 AM

    you cannot reconstruct iMessage conversations. once deleted they are gone. forever, with no way to retrieve them.


    Brady gave Goodell the names and numbers of everyone on his phone, he narrowed down those who had anything to do with football (28 names) and told Goodell it was fine with him if those people gave Goodell any texts from him that they had on their phones. The important thing is that the NFL compared Brady’s list (from his phone company) to McNally and Jastremski’s phones….they matched up perfectly, there were no calls or texts that the NFL didn’t already have.

  90. holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:54 AM

    Whyhy was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.
    ________________________________________

    I don’t know for sure why he was called the Deflator. We can all speculate (for whatever it’s worth), but speculation is just that … speculation. It’s not evidence, and it proves nothing. It may be that the Deflator actually refers to losing weight. If you or I were going to lie about that name, I’m sure neither of us would come up with something that lame.

    According to two witnesses cited in the Wells Report, JM went to the field unaccompanied roughly half the time. If he was leaving by himself in order to deflate footballs, why only half the time? If the Pats have been routinely deflating footballs for years as charged, wouldn’t he have to leave the locker room unaccompanied with the balls all the time?

    JM says he went into the bathroom to go to the bathroom. If that is the case (and it’s hardly implausible), he would not leave the footballs in the hallway, since they were his responsibility. If he goes to the bathroom, they must go with him

    Players sign merchandise for employees all the time. It’s a perk for locker room personnel. Is every locker room employee with an autographed item a cheater who took bribes for violating the rules? Of course not.

    Whether people agree with what I’ve written or not, I think these are reasonable answers. Do they prove that JM was not tampering with the footballs. No. Are there other possible answers to these questions that would suggest cheating. Yes. Does any of this actually prove anything at all, one way or the other? Absolutely not.

  91. lostsok says:
    Aug 15, 2015 1:14 AM
    If the ruling the thrown out, it will be the end of the CBA.

    At that point, all players will consider legal action in response to any fine or punishment. Why shouldn’t they? If the negotiated power they GAVE the commissioner is not ironclad, why should they listen to anything? PED usage will increase, as will cheating.

    Likewise, in the light of this, teams will also just shrug off the negotiated rules of the league. They’ll simply refuse to pay fines for salary cap violations, and collusion will return in full force.

    The term “game changer” is overused, but this ruling is one. The integrity of the entire league is at stake. While the hate for Goodall may be justified for many reasons, that should be fixed by the league. A federal judge basically setting fire to the power of the CBA effectively kills the ability of the league to set any enforceable standards.
    ___________________________________
    1. It wouldn’t end the CBA. There have already been agreed upon changes to the existing CBA. At most, the judge would rule the process fundamentally flawed and require the use of a neutral arbitrator for appeals. How horrible! An unbiased person making sure the system works how it was meant to work.

    2. Seriously, the anarchy argument? Just sad, and unsupported by other historic cases when people tried to use similar arguments to justify the continuation of other inappropriate practices.

    3. The league divides up shared revenue, so how would a team refuse to pay a fine? If a team loses a draft pick, it can’t have someone rush the stage and make the pick and get the player they want. In other words, teams can’t avoid punishment.

    4. Saying collusion will return implies that it actually went away. It hasn’t. It’s simply used by the teams in such a way that their collective position relative to the players is improved.

    5. Finally, can we please get beyond the narrative that the players GAVE Goodell this power? Goodell took it, and then the NFL demanded that it be codified in the new CBA. Remember, it wasn’t the players that went on strike. It was the league that locked out the players. They strong armed the players union into accepting a bad CBA. They got it approved by giving the union’s negotiators some relatively minor (even less valuable when we look at how things are playing out) concessions so that they could go back to their members and claim they were able to win some victories for them. Even then, the CBA anticipates a fair process. Nowhere in the CBA does it say that the commissioner can make things up and punish individuals when there is no evidence to prove they have violated the rules.

  92. muslimponder says:
    Aug 14, 2015 11:06 PM
    Stop being an apologist for cheater Brady and the organization of systematic cheaters.
    ——

    Impressions and Clicks, Impressions and Clicks. Most people know that Brady is cooked. But, pointing out the blowout only gets people to turn the channel. The Pat’s narrative offers much more speculation. Also, note the up/down votes. Pats fans are glued to this source, becoming a cathartic echo chamber.

  93. How long will the it take to negotiate the next collective agreement? There is no way the players give ANY Commissioner same amount of power that is in the current contract.

  94. 205diamonds says:
    Aug 15, 2015 10:00 AM

    Themikegun say:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:34 AM
    There are now rumors of Brady and Giselle’s marriage having problems, and their main form of communication has come down to texts. If true, I can certainly understand why he doesn’t want his phone and most private texts in the hands of the National Football Leak.
    ————-
    Um, what rumors? The only mention of rumors of this sort are seen from haters in these forums. Can you cite a source? Or are you just acting like Goodell and Wells and writing fiction?
    ————————-

    A quick internet search shows many sources reporting the rumor.

    Apparently they had a big fight at his birthday party.

    Maybe she wasn’t too amused at the pictures of Ben Affleck’s nanny wearing his Super Bowl rings.

  95. wayne1693 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 3:43 AM
    Why are Your leanings so pro-league, when even a Freshman in high-school of average intelligence knows not to destroy evidence in a legal proceeding. Brady deserves 4 games for that alone, regardless of whether there was deflation.
    __________________________________
    1. NOT A LEGAL PROCEEDING

    2. Hate to repeat myself, but while the league could ask for his phone, they can’t compel him to give it up. Punishing him for refusing to do what he’s not required to do would be a violation on their part.

    3. Point 2 + the fact that Brady already stated he wasn’t giving them his phone means they were never going to have it. If they were never going to have it, the phone can’t be considered evidence. If the phone isn’t evidence, destroying it can’t be considered destroying evidence. Finally, it can only be considered destroying evidence if it was intended to be used in a legal proceeding such as a court case or criminal investigation. So, to refer you back to point 1: The NFL’s internal investigation is NOT A LEGAL PROCEEDING.

    Hopefully, a high school freshman of average intelligence recognizes the difference between a private company and a law enforcement agency. If so, maybe you could have one of them explain it to you.

  96. mrmcdougle says:
    Aug 15, 2015 10:42 AM

    muslimponder says:
    Aug 14, 2015 11:06 PM
    Stop being an apologist for cheater Brady and the organization of systematic cheaters.
    ——

    Impressions and Clicks, Impressions and Clicks. Most people know that Brady is cooked. But, pointing out the blowout only gets people to turn the channel. The Pat’s narrative offers much more speculation. Also, note the up/down votes. Pats fans are glued to this source, becoming a cathartic echo chamber.
    ——————————–

    The Hater Faithful are glued here as well.

    The Patriot Faithful, and all other football fans that possess rational thought, have to be diligent in order to stem the tide of the delusional Hater Faithful.

  97. This is why full disclosure is the most important surprised to come out of Judge Berman handling this case. The NFL under Goodell was pulling a ton of unscrupulous ploys against Brady assuming no one would ever have access to the all of the written records and testimony. Now with that becoming unhidden to the public because of Judge Berman’s ruling of full disclosure the NFL has to keep pulling back from their original plan because it doesn’t work if all in the daylight. Look I know many of this site have let their disgust be known, but it’s incredible that those trying to hold players to a higher standard are standing in the bottom of the well of deceit. I hope more federal oversight is a result of this travesty of justice. The players, and the fans deserve more for their spending and phenomenal support of NFL games. The leadership should be taken to task and made to pay for their crimes, for they have done for they are the ones who have blasphemed the shield! Free the great one Tom Brady and give the Patriots back their draft picks or always be considered the most duplicitous front office in NFL History!

  98. These articles are great but every article seems to be about the bumbling, underhanded NFL.

    I’d also like to see an article about the ‘weaknesses’ in Brady’s case cited by Judge Berman.

    What are they?

  99. Brady is guilty because the ball boy called himself the Deflator.— The NFL in 2009 had a commercial using deflate for weight loss. Brady is guilty because the ball boy used the bathroom. He used the bathroom to empty his bladder because he had to do his job for 2 quarters . One Patriot football player had to po-op literally on the sideline during a game. Ball Boy never took the balls out on his own. Witness said that he does half the time and the refs. more probable than not knew this. Refs did not give permission for the ball boy to take the ball. The refs gave the ball permission to take the ball out of the room out of his sight to the next room. The ball boy assumed that he can take it out from there to the field which he routinely did half the time as opposed to the refs statement that this never happened before. Several officials saw the ball boy that day doing this yet said nothing and let him do the same after the balls were checked. Brady signed stuff but must be guilty because he signed them for the ball boys and gave them bonus for Christmas. Guilty for not being a snob and a Scrooge?
    To simplify for the slow folks… There is no such direct evidence that Brady asked the ball boys to deflate the balls according to the NFL.
    Goodell punished Brady for not telling them that he replaced his phone but refused to follow up on the 28 people he called on that phone. Goodell held on the lie that the balls were overinflated and even asked the Patriots organization not to release the fact to the public once the Patriots finally had this vital info.

    Yeah… Brady cheated. Brady is guilty. Brady lied. Unfortunately that’s all you losers have. Brady won us 4 shiny ones and it makes us feel giddy that he can win us another one thanks to the losers collective hate. Brady won’t rest till he exacts revenge.

  100. wayne1693 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 3:43 AM
    Why are Your leanings so pro-league, when even a Freshman in high-school of average intelligence knows not to destroy evidence in a legal proceeding. Brady deserves 4 games for that alone, regardless of whether there was deflation.
    __________________________________________
    Why is it so difficult to understand that if the investigator tells you he doesn’t need the phone, you can do what you want with it. And that’s besides the fact that the investigator has no right to it in the first place.
    Goodell is a narcissistic buffoon. Time to go.

  101. holeinone09:

    I’m guessing nothing the Patriots ever accomplished meant anything to you even before Spygate or Deflategate. So nothing has changed.

  102. joe6606 says:

    Aug 15, 2015 7:02 AM
    you cannot reconstruct iMessage conversations. once deleted they are gone. forever, with no way to retrieve them.

    ________________________

    Ok. so as soon as Brady deleted them they wre “gone forever.”

    So whether he turned over his phone or “destroyed it” makes no difference at all.

  103. nightflyer2012:

    First, the reason all the articles are about the NFL’s incompetence and lying is that THAT is what has driven this whole thing all along.

    Second, the reason there aren’t many articles about weaknesses in Brady (and the Union’s) case is that those weaknesses only involve one single argument by the NFL:

    “It doesn’t matter if we were fair, if we had any evidence, or if we were out to get the Patriots and if we botched everything – because we entered into a CBA that permitted us to be unfair, to be out to get certain players without sufficient evidence, and to botch things.

  104. Rootpain, as a member of the NFL, Brady is obligated to fully cooperate in all investigations. They got JJ’s and JM’s phones, they had every right to ask for Brady’s. When he was given the extraordinary opportunity to select which texts were relevant. He declined. He could not claim his union rights. He destroyed evidence and obstructed an investigation.

  105. 205diamonds says:
    Aug 15, 2015 10:00 AM
    Themikegun say:
    Aug 15, 2015 7:34 AM
    There are now rumors of Brady and Giselle’s marriage having problems, and their main form of communication has come down to texts. If true, I can certainly understand why he doesn’t want his phone and most private texts in the hands of the National Football Leak.
    ————-
    Um, what rumors? The only mention of rumors of this sort are seen from haters in these forums. Can you cite a source? Or are you just acting like Goodell and Wells and writing fiction?
    _____________________________________

    Google can be more helpful than you realize. It’s a new story this week and has been picked up by many outlets.

  106. Goodell is not very intelligent..his record of handling punishments against players is horrendous…so when the Colts helped set up Tom Brady, Roger took it as an opportunity to come down hard on Brady, to deflect all the criticism his office has faced over the last few years.. As a bonus, he realized most owners and fans resent the success of the Patriots, so Goodell used the media to further enrage the masses, by spreading rumors and having his men leak false reports to their talking heads at ESPN…

    What Roger failed to understand, again, the federal courts will vacate his penalties again. Rogers lies have been exposed, the NFL has failed to keep the documents sealed, the truth is coming out. Any neutral observer would side with Brady.

  107. nflexecutivesconstantlylie says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:06 AM
    Is there a better word than scum anyone can offer to describe the NFL executive office? I need something more accurate, mort descriptive.

    __________________________

    stool sample would be probably a little bit more accurate in terms of their natural body odor.

  108. The Judge stated that this whole investigation was about the AFC Title game and the Well’s report.

    He said any comments about “deflator” were back in May and had nothing to do with the AFC Title game or the Well’s report. In other words they weren’t relevant.

  109. jova99 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:05 PM
    ……
    What Roger failed to understand, again, the federal courts will vacate his penalties again. Rogers lies have been exposed, the NFL has failed to keep the documents sealed, the truth is coming out. Any neutral observer would side with Brady.

    I am not sure the federal courts will vacate Brady’s suspension. The Judge may ultimately decide that the CBA gives Goodell and his henchmen the right to lie and, even, be “evidently partial”.

    I have to give Judge Berman credit though – he clearly wants a bright light to shine on the clown show of NFL executives, no matter what his final decision, by making so much information public. One might guess that he mostly sympathizes with Brady and his lawyers, as more and more in and out of the media throughout the country do the same, but that does not ultimately mean that his reading of the law and the CBA will lead him to vacate the suspension.

  110. There are now rumors of Brady and Giselle’s marriage having problems, and their main form of communication has come down to texts. If true, I can certainly understand why he doesn’t want his phone and most private texts in the hands of the National Football Leak.
    ————-
    Um, what rumors? The only mention of rumors of this sort are seen from haters in these forums. Can you cite a source? Or are you just acting like Goodell and Wells and writing fiction?
    ___________________________________

    Google can be more helpful than you realize. It’s a new story this week and has been picked up by many outlets.

    ____

    I’d been on vacation and lost track, it is “news” story, but like the other investigation, there is no solid sources or evidence. However this is the kind of thing that puts a lot of stress on a marriage, so I don’t completely disregard the rumor.

    That said, it is their private business and doesn’t really belong in this forum.

  111. holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:20 AM
    Just another pro-Pats post to get 300 or so Pats fans who have religiously followed this story and given up much of their real lives to make a post about “free Brady”, “fire Goodell”, or something similar………..But either way, I just want this entire boring story to go away and a final ruling be made.
    No matter what happens, Brady and the Pats are cheaters in my book and anything they ever accomplished means nothing to me.
    _____________________________________
    Well what’s keeping you here? There’s nothing forcing you to read the posts and post yourself. Besides I really believe you know Brady didn’t cheat. It’s just easier for you to accept he beat your team if you pretend he did cheat. But that’s just not the right thing to do. Anyway listen, Brady is not that young. He only has a few more years to dominate. Who knows, maybe your team will be next in line to be a dynasty.

  112. The haters are obsessed with Tom Brady and the Patriots. Is it any wonder that Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, Kensil, Vicent, and Pash were as well?

    Obsessed individuals do stuff the rest of us wouldn’t do. For example, they post about other teams more on PFT than they do about the team they support. I would bet that the usual suspects post at least ten times as many posts about the Patriots than they do about the team they support. That’s old girlfriend crazy.

  113. holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:54 AM
    Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.
    _________________________________
    You are right. They are all good questions. So why didn’t Wells ask them those questions when he had access to them? Why didn’t NFL security ask them those questions when they were questioning them? Why didn’t Goodell call them into the appeals hearing to ask them those questions? I’m pretty sure Judge Berman is wondering the same thing.

  114. NFL: Dear Judge, we could have thrown a larger book at Brady but we restrained ourselves. We have never told the players what ‘cooperation’ means and we never told Brady he could be disciplined for not turning the phone over to us. Phones have magic meaning outside of their messages – which we admit can be found in other ways easily enough: in fact Brady offered to help. He cooperated 99% percent, but we have to impugn him about something. So, all in all, the four games remains reasonable and within our power under the CBA.

    Really. Just start thinking about what you are going to say to the small contingent of owners who’ll be visiting you within days of the complete overturning of the suspension. This fight is over and there is no 13th round.

  115. It’s hilarious to watch the Haters rehash the same old answered arguments. Can they not read or do they not want to?

    Despite being mentioned hundreds of times by Goodell and Wells, “the deflator” appears once in the texts (not including the 5/14 text “deflate and give someone that jacket” – which seems to indeed reference weight loss by “the deflator”)

    As Jastremski explained, “deflation” is that the very first thing he routinely does when he opens a new box of Wilson footballs is to take a bit of air out of them. It’s a long process of deflating and reinflating and other aspects of ball prep legal and done by other things

    Of course as is his habit Goodell had Wells leave that tidbit out of the report and decision

    Anything in the Pats defense is left out as a rule

    How many times will the Haters ignore this explanation? Just because it doesn’t work into Goodell’ Frame Job doesn’t mean it’s not true

  116. Ya Brady and Giselle were reported to have a fight in the same type of tabloids which regularly feature alien abductions.

    Hate has no bounds. There is no rational argument with irrational people.

    From a very recent ESPN poll 68% of current football players do not think Brady cheats. 70% think other than the Patriots cheat. The very people who know far more about the ins and outs of the game. Yet haters only see what they want.

  117. Just look at pic and see how dumb Pats fans are. Free Brady ? Really ? Didn’t know he was in jail or being held against his will? All Patsy’s going overboard with his cheating like he’s some martyr …

  118. limakey says:
    Aug 15, 2015 11:52 AM
    Rootpain, as a member of the NFL, Brady is obligated to fully cooperate in all investigations. They got JJ’s and JM’s phones, they had every right to ask for Brady’s. When he was given the extraordinary opportunity to select which texts were relevant. He declined. He could not claim his union rights. He destroyed evidence and obstructed an investigation.

    JJ’s and JM’s phone were provided by the Patriots. The had no expectation of privacy there. The law is pretty clear there.

    The law is also clear regarding Brady’s private phone, the phone in question. His employer cannot require that he give it up. Fourth Amendment, privacy rights, etc.

    Ted Wells told Brady he didn’t need the phone, and he just wanted the text messages. Brady’s lawyer thought the request was too broad and advised him to decline. The request was for any message related to ball pressure at all. Given that Brady was a high profile celebrity being accused with tampering with footballs, that request could literally have encompassed thousands of messages from neutral parties, all of whom might have said things that would be embarrassing if they became public.

    And then the investigation was over and the punishment was set. How, then, does the discover of the disposal of the phone constitute some kind of new offense? The phone was never going to Wells regardless.

    And that doesn’t even address the fact that the players have not explicitly accepted the notion that “cooperation” necessarily implies sharing the cell phone. One could have thought that, if the NFL really wanted the phone, they could have sought a court order backing them up. Instead, they have imposed a punishment not on the books.

    The NFL keeps doing that. They keep losing in court when they do that.

  119. rootpain says:
    Aug 15, 2015 12:28 PM
    holeinone09 says:
    Aug 15, 2015 8:54 AM
    Why was he called the Deflator? Why did he take the footballs? Why did he take them into the room before going on the field? Why did Brady give him signed merch? Those are the questions that NOBODY has ever adequately answered, and no Pats fan EVER responds to them. Ever.

    Just like I said. No Pats fans can answer these simple questions with any reasonable answer. That tells you all you need to know.
    _________________________________
    You are right. They are all good questions. So why didn’t Wells ask them those questions when he had access to them? Why didn’t NFL security ask them those questions when they were questioning them? Why didn’t Goodell call them into the appeals hearing to ask them those questions? I’m pretty sure Judge Berman is wondering the same thing.

    Good question. Wells had questioned them before and knew what the answers would be. But the public has never been given those answers. The Wells report omits any statements made in defense of the Patriots completely. And makes reference to them in passing, but inevitably includes a statement to the effect of “we did not find this credible.” McNally said it was typical for him to take the balls by himself to the field. Several security personnel testified in support of this claim. Wells simply disregarded all of their testimony, in order to build the claim that this was some kind of unique event.

    He did that even though he insisted this was not the first time that somebody had deflated footballs illicitly.

  120. Whisper, Goodell did ask Brady if JM and JJ should be heard from, Brady declined to have them a part of the process. I disagree with anyone who says that Goodell should have required them to be there. It was Brady’s time to tell his side. He should have the only say who his witnesses will be. We all know there is a huge conflict between TB’S testimony and JJ’s and JM’s. To force JM and JJ to be at his hearing or any other proceeding is forcing Brady to incriminate himself.

  121. limakey says:
    Aug 15, 2015 11:52 AM

    … as a member of the NFL, Brady is obligated to fully cooperate in all investigations.

    Not true at all (AND YOU KNOW IT!!!).
    Only “reasonable” cooperation is required.

  122. Limakry
    Whisper, Goodell did ask Brady if JM and JJ should be heard from, Brady declined to have them a part of the process. I disagree with anyone who says that Goodell should have required them to be there. It was Brady’s time to tell his side. He should have the only say who his witnesses will be. We all know there is a huge conflict between TB’S testimony and JJ’s and JM’s. To force JM and JJ to be at his hearing or any other proceeding is forcing Brady to incriminate himself.

    How would you know any of this to be factual?

  123. limakey says:
    Aug 15, 2015 11:52 AM
    “Rootpain, as a member of the NFL, Brady is obligated to fully cooperate in all investigations. They got JJ’s and JM’s phones, they had every right to ask for Brady’s. When he was given the extraordinary opportunity to select which texts were relevant. He declined. He could not claim his union rights. He destroyed evidence and obstructed an investigation.”

    Limakey you are one of the last haters still active on this site and I admire your perseverance, counter points:

    1. “as a member of the NFL,”
    Legally speaking, Brady is a member of the NFLPA. This a distinction that is important in this case.

    2. “Brady is obligated to fully cooperate in all investigations.”
    Brady did fully cooperate and Wells said so in his report

    3. “They got JJ’s and JM’s phones, they had every right to ask for Brady’s.”
    JJ and JM phones were team property and subject to seizure/discovery. Brady’s phone is/was a personal phone and he is legally allowed to deny Wells request.

    4. “When he was given the extraordinary opportunity to select which texts were relevant. He declined.”
    Again privacy, and legal, and based on the NFL’s leak record, wise. He produced personal coms at the appeal hearing and he gave the NFL the opportunity to dig further. They declined, citing too much trouble.

    5. “He could not claim his union rights.”
    Maybe not in Russia, but this is the USA.

    6. “He destroyed evidence and obstructed an investigation.”
    This may as well have come from Goodell’s mouth. Kessler has argued that even if he did the NFL never warned Brady about penalties for withholding his phone and personal coms . Plus there is zero precedent with the NFL suspending any player for obstruction. Law of the shop. As Kessler says, Labor law 101.

    The NFL wants this case to be entirely decided on the commissioner’s powers in Article 46. Kessler is arguing otherwise, and with feeling. He is appalled at the mockery of the labor law the NFL is displaying.

  124. The fact that almost all of the anger over the perceived mishandling of this issue seems to be directed at Goodell is the reason he will never be fired. That’s his purpose, to provide a figurehead to absorb the public response to anything the league does. From the viewpoint of the people who have the power to dismiss him, he’s filling his job description to the letter.

    If he wasn’t there, some other stooge would be right there in his place. He *is* the NFL shield, and the owners get to stand behind him, endlessly reaching into all of our pockets while he sucks in all of the negative attention like a black hole.

    The biggest foible of the whole thing was trying to produce hard evidence when none was needed. The circumstantial evidence of the text exchanges was plenty for any reasonable person to conclude that something untoward was going on.

    A locker room attendant was clearly bribed to condition the balls in a manner that was pleasing to Brady. If you deny that, you’re either a mindless NE fan, or an idiot. (Kind of redundant, I know.)

  125. As a member of the NFL (not the NFLPA) Goodell was obligated to give up HIS cellphone when Mueller demanded it in the Ray Rice VideoGate sham “investigation”

    But of course Goodell refused.

    It’s well established that only NFL employees are required to give up their phones – not NFLPA members – which is why McNally and Jastremski and everyone in the Pats organization made theirs available and no text from Brady was found

    But the hutzpah of Goodell to move the goalposts yet AGAIN and now suspend Brady for doing the same thing Goodell did is AMAZINGLY bold even for Goodell (who unlike Brady can’t legally refuse to hand over his phone – but did)

    Goodell hopes most fans are gullible and ignorant enough not to notice such things

    Thus far he’s right – as evidenced by Limakey and others

  126. It looks like Emperor Goodell’s final brief is pretty much just saying that he is the Supreme Ruler of the NFL, and the laws and contracts of mere mortals don’t apply to him and his decisions.

    I guess he believes that the CBA gives him the authority to do what he wants, when he wants.

    He’s 0-4 going into this one, so we will see if he is finally right.

  127. If Limakey is as obsessed with the Pats as he seems to be he knows full well that Mike Florio had an excellent piece exposing the fact that Goodell had the right to call any witnesses he wanted and chose not to call McNally and Jastremski

    Both had endured 7 hours of interviews on 4 occasions and maintained their innocence the entire time. The NFLPA or Brady had nothing they needed to clarify with them

    Wells apparently did with a request for a 5th interview/fishing expedition and yet Goodell STILL didn’t want them as witnesses – thus the judge cannot call them

    Limakey should go back and read Florio calling Goodell out on this admission this is all a sham

    Is FrameGate now not 100% apparent to all? Y’all are going to look pretty jealous and delusional as the realization of what Goodell has been up to sinks in with all

  128. You see all these statements here like “a locker room attendant was clearly bribed”

    Huh? Hey Dolphins fans – if that’s anything more than pure speculation and you have evidence, bring it forward – Goodell is desperate for it!

    Try to be open to the speculation that your imagination and jealousy make you believe Goodell’s fiction – and accept what scientists say – NO DEFLATION TOOK PLACE – at least none not explained by the cold and rain

    It’s time the NFL ended their forced suspension of McNally and Jastremski anyways – yes, that’s right, the Patriots didn’t fire them as urban myth says… But the NFL controls when or whether they come back (yes, go back and check. Troy Vincent said so)

    Yet another common sense response to the supposed proof of guilt cited frequently on these pages

    You can expect THEY’LL be filing a defamation suit against Goodell, which may explain their silence

  129. Tom Brady should just hold a press conference and confess that he bribed Mother Nature with signed gear and merchandise so that she would drop the temperature, and make it rain, so that those footballs would deflate.

    Mother Nature, the real Deflator.

  130. A locker room attendant was clearly bribed to condition the balls in a manner that was pleasing to Brady. If you deny that, you’re either a mindless NE fan, or an idiot. (Kind of redundant, I know.)
    ____

    You do know that every QB has people who are paid to condition the balls in a manner pleasing to them…they have people whose full-time jobs are to do precisely that. Eli Mannings footballs are put through a 2 to 3 month conditioning process…so why would Brady have to bribe someone to do it? It’s perfectly legal and within the rules for that to happen. If you mean that Brady paid someone to release air out of a pre-conditioned ball…then you are full of hot air (pun intended). There is no evidence that Brady did anything but ask that the balls be put at the legal minimum.

  131. I802, Brady destroyed his cell phone before he met with Wells. He declined Wells request. He gave no reason. He refused to have a union rep at the interview. He knew the NFL had no subpoena power but he did know the Federal Courts do. He did this on his own. It is perfectly fair and reasonable to be he had the cell phone destroyed because the evidence on it was damning.

  132. celticsforever says:
    Aug 14, 2015 11:20 PM
    3 simple facts of physics are completely lost on goodell. 1: Air pressure drops in the cold. 2: Air pressure increases in warmth. 3: one cannot dig himself out of a hole. Fact #3 is becoming glaringly apparent.
    With any luck this will cost him his job.
    **********************************************************
    (Pats Fans): Really? IF this was “solely” a situation in which the low inflation of the footballs was based “only” on physics then: 1)why dismiss the two equipment guys? 2) why all the cover-up and cellphone activity between “the deflator” and brady once the questions regarding the footballs started? 3)why destroy your cellphone? 4)why not just turn the bloody cell phone over due to your innocence?? 5) IF you’re as innocent as you want others to believe (unless you’re a Pat’s Fan) then why not cooperate fully tell Goodell “here’s my cellphone you incompetent Power-Monger and shove it up your Waa-Zoo !!” The whole thing from BOTH parties looks like a “game of half-truths” but one is an employee and the other the employer. So if you’re employer ask whether you did or didn’t do something questionable, instead of providing the requested information after the employer has paid you MILLION$ of dollars you would much rather “lawyer up”, destroy the phone, and try the case in the media while trusting the “Spin-God’s”??? Why? For what reason? Is this the logical path of an innocent man?? Only a Pat’s Fan will say “yes” to these actions. Rather than providing room for conjecture and speculation of one’s innocence when all you “had” to do was cooperate with the investigation and give the phone to your own attorney and have the entire thing take a “significantly shorter period of time??? (If there’s nothing on the phone pointing to a deflating conspiracy then there’s nothing there, Right??) That’s Crazy behavior and you ALL know it. Innocent Men Do Not Behave This WAY !!!! Pat’s Fans need to ask themselves this: When faced with some accusation, knowing that you’re innocent, would you choose the fastest, cheapest, most “precise” way to absolve yourself of the circumstances or a long, convoluted, expensive process, which even if found in your favor will “still” have negative connotations on your legacy?? Amazing………………..and quite sad. (keep serving up that kool-aide but don’t ask me to drink it with you !)

  133. Limakey – you now seem interested in the cellphone

    You realize NFLPA members can’t be asked… NFL employees can be asked – and Goodell himself refused to give up his personal cellphone

    Ironic that Goodell is now (apparently) suspending Brady for doing what he himself admits he did – refusing to cooperate with an investigation

  134. Make no mistake… Fans outside New England have been spoon fed mis-inf0rmation. The PR campaign instituted by the league was designed specifically to make sure the court of public opinion remained squarely on the NFLs side.

    All the league had on the Patriots was “conjecture” and they convinced all you “football” fans that the evidence had to have been on Brady’s phone. (which BTW was provided to the League in the Appeals hearing.

    Well’s & Goodell had nothing else. There is no evidence Brady or the Patriots cheated.

    Now … Here is where we are at… My 8 year old son wore his Gronk game shirt to the San Diego – Dallas game this last Thursday and the “fans” got so bad with the cheater taunts , he cried and we had to put a sweat shirt on him.

    Despicable… Thanks Roger and to the fans in San Diego… G.F.Ys!!!!

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