Chip Kelly confused about what “roughing the passer” means

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Eagles coach Chip Kelly still thinks the hit Terrell Suggs delivered to Sam Bradford was roughing the passer, even after the NFL explained that Suggs should not have been penalized.

Kelly said at his press conference today that he thinks referee Jerome Boger made the right call when he flagged Suggs for roughing the passer.

“I thought the interpretation on the field was correct,” Kelly said. “I thought it was a penalty and I thought Jerome Boger called it right.”

Kelly is entitled to his own opinions, but he’s not entitled to his own facts. And Kelly is simply wrong on the facts here. The NFL rulebook specifically states that roughing the passer protects only “a player who is in a passing posture.” Bradford, who handed off to Darren Sproles on the play, was never in a passing posture. Boger was wrong to call roughing the passer.

Where Kelly can make an argument is that Suggs should have been called for unnecessary roughness for hitting Bradford after Bradford handed the ball off. NFL head of officiating Dean Blandino said that a quarterback can be hit after handing off “if the quarterback has an option,” but Kelly says that Blandino is wrongly suggesting that the Eagles were running the zone-read on the play in question.

“Not every shotgun run is a zone-read play. We didn’t run any zone reads,” Kelly said. “We don’t run as much zone read as everybody thinks we do. . . . [Blandino] said it was a read-option play. It wasn’t a read-option play. I know our quarterbacks can be hit on a read-option play, but not every run we have is a read-option run.”

Kelly said he believes the NFL should protect quarterbacks who hand off in a shotgun formation.

“I think it would be troubling for the league if every quarterback in the shotgun can get hit,” Kelly said.

Kelly may be right about that, but he should be arguing for the NFL to expand its protections of quarterbacks. He shouldn’t be arguing that Suggs committed roughing the passer on the play in question, because he didn’t.

121 responses to “Chip Kelly confused about what “roughing the passer” means

  1. He’s not confused with how to hang points on teams so far, that’s all I care about.

    Eagles looked much improved, but once again it’s only preseason.

  2. “He shouldn’t be arguing that Suggs committed roughing the passer on the play in question, because he didn’t.”

    So, it’s not RTP. Would everyone agree that on a non-option play a dive at the knees is Unnecessary Roughness?

  3. As QB salaries continue to increase, so will their protection by rules. Fans will point to the league becoming soft, but those fans are not paying those QB salaries, so their opinions are significantly biased.

  4. Seemed like more of a play action play call than read option — the guy that called the actual play should know.

  5. Does Kelly think he’s a Jedi now? “These droids are not running a zone read.”

  6. Well unfortunately any QB running Chip Kellys offense is going to take a lot of hits with that style of play calling. Lots of option reads which makes the QB a punching bag. I see them rolling through at least 2 QBs this year.

    Don’t want the QB to take shots like that then they better change a few things.

    Calling Suggs out for a legal hit sure makes them look like a bunch of cry babies.

    Glad to see the hit wasn’t illegal after it was fully reviewed.

  7. Ok, it’s not roughing the passer. Going for the knees on a QB who’s handed the ball off is dirty. Going for the knees on any player for that matter is dirty. Look at the replay or a photo. He’s moving in a downward movement when he could have just hit Bradford in the thighs, waist, or chest easily.

  8. Yes new rules changes on the horizon. It will be a penalty if a defender breathes heavily on a QB and if he hurts his feelings, that’s a double penalty of 30 yards.

  9. Kelly is right. It was a straight handoff, and Suggs should have been flagged. That is what the meat of this story is about. You are making a big deal out of semantics (roughing the passer vs. unnecessary roughness – either way it’s 15 yards).

    Suggs didn’t know if it was a read option or not. He knew that the first chance he got, he was going to go straight for Bradford’s knees. He is a dirty player, and I hope that he gets his someday.

  10. No need to expand protections. Just call the stuff when appropriate. If a QB throws and it takes more than 1 step to hit him, call it. If a player goes for the knees, call it. If it is obvious that a player goes for a free shot in QB after a hand off (hand off is made, QB stops, then the defender goes after him–not initial target/follow through) then call that too. They should stop calling incidental contact to the head (hand brushes QB helmet after missing the ball) because cheap first downs are lame.

  11. After being asked why he traded for a QB with two torn ACL injuries Chip stated that he believed that defensive players were compelled to count “One Mississippi….Two Mississippi” before rushing his QB.

  12. I saw a gif of the play and it didn’t look like a read option.it looked like a hand off deep off a shot gun snap, not sure what Bradford was doing out there by the tackle ..would like to see the entire play though….

  13. scotrugby says:
    Aug 24, 2015 12:59 PM

    Yes new rules changes on the horizon. It will be a penalty if a defender breathes heavily on a QB and if he hurts his feelings, that’s a double penalty of 30 yards.

    ————————

    Yeah diving at the knees of a stationary QB who handed the ball off is clearly the same as breathing heavily on a QB.

  14. I thought the Tom Brady rule made this illegal. Maybe it wasn’t technically illegal, but he knew who had the ball and he knew he could get a hit on Bradford so he did just that. I think he knew he was hitting Bradford no matter who got the ball.

  15. Legal or illegal it was an unnessisary hit. There was no one in between Suggs and Bradford, he chose too go low. And that’s the issue as I see it.

  16. Call it what you want Chip, but its designed to confuse the defense. The defender has to make a decision on who to tackle. That was a terrible call by Chippy who got bailed out by Boger with his ruling. Maybe come the actual season Boger will understand the rule better.

  17. Everyone who is arguing that it wasn’t dirty and wasn’t a penalty is taking skip bayless’s side … think about that.

    So the guy in charge of knowing the rules and thus the Gane of football doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a read option and a zone read. That’s just great

  18. No doubt it was a dirty shot intended to injure the quarterback. Suggs never even looked for the ball or the running back. 36 inches to his left and Suggs would have decked Sproles in the backfield.

    This is reminiscent of some of the famous bounty hits on other quarterbacks.

    He probably should be fined.

    Just google this phrase for the video:

    Suggs-tackles-Bradford-low-gets-flagged

  19. Suggs is a dirtbag, what did you expect?

    The refs can’t figure out what basic science like the Ideal Gas Law is, so you should not be surprised they aren’t bright enough to know what a cheap shot is.

  20. This is working out great for Suggs. No one is talking about how awful he actually played. He was easily the worst player on the field. 3 penalties in one drive, and when he wasn’t committing penalties he was getting pushed around by the Eagles O-Line.

  21. Go re watch the interview he was arguing that it wasn’t a read optition not that he couldn’t hit a passer. He was using passer to reference qb like a lot of people do. Of course he didn’t mean they guy handing off the ball is passing the ball.

  22. OK, but if that’s the way you look at this, then quarterbacks are going to get hit in the knees every time they hand off. What’s the difference between a handoff on a read option and a regular handoff? Whether the QB made a move like he might keep it before handing off? Watching the Bradford play, it looked more like a regular handoff than a read option. But the fact is only the Eagles know for sure whether Bradford had an option to keep the ball on that play. After Bradford handed off, Suggs took like 3 more steps before diving right at Bradford’s knee. If that’s the type of play that the hacks and imbeciles in the league office think is good for the game, then so be it. Just expect to see a lot of starting QBs carted off from now on. And if one of them is named Luck or Flacco, then those teams will call their buddies in the league office and have them change the rules.

  23. The facts are actually very simple

    There are the rules as they are on paper.

    Then there are the “Rules” as they pertain to the “NFL Brand”

    Suggs doesn’t help the NFL Brand and the only defensive player who does right now is JJ Watt!

    The NFL will protect a QB that is seen as part of the “NFL Brand”, unless he happens to have a pressure gauge in his back pocket and has recently taken a hammer to his iphone. BTW PS Tom the NSA still has all those text messages, just a head’s up before you swear under oath to a Federal Judge!!!

    If Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Andrew Luck gets drilled right after handing off the football trust me it will be called and no one will make a stink.

    What’s at issue is that the Eagles run the option and it makes it much harder for a defensive player to know when he can and can’t hit the QB.

    The fact is every game is called different by every crew. Defensive players need to know how each crew calls a game and adapt.

    It was a late hit even if it was legal, and far from the only call Suggs had in that game.

  24. Chip can call it whatever he wants – Bradford was not upright in a throwing position when he handed off, he was crouched in a running position when he handed off, and the generally accepted response of a defense to that posturing is to whack the QB regardless of what he does. Whatever you think of the morality of Suggs’ hit, it’s been vindicated by the league so Chip should expect other defenders to do the exact same thing to Bradford next time and he should adjust his play calling accordingly.

  25. Seriously? Why does this crap have to become so complicated.
    He is dirty.
    It was dirty.
    He didn’t need to go after the knees, and knew VERY well what he was doing and why.
    Unnecessary roughness not “roughing the passer”
    There …solved it for you.

  26. Correction it was a read option, Tebow ran the same play that he gained 25 yds on… the QB has the option of not giving it to the rb and rolling out to the left….Suggs although is dirty, the play is legal…

  27. The QB still has the football and you can’t hit the QB low, it may not be roughing the passer, but I still think it’s a penalty possibly unnecessary roughness perhaps. If this was a zone read by Brady, Brees or Wilson and he was hit low you can bet the house it would be a penalty.

  28. I guess if a guy says passer instead of Quarterback he’s making up facts now. Great arguement. Are you going to call everyone dishonest who says clipping when they mean block in the back now too?

  29. Let’s just get it done once and for all

    – put the QB in a dress
    – two hand touch is all that is needed to down the player in a dress
    – when the QB throws an INT, he must immediately fall to the ground

  30. Dean Blandino said that a quarterback can be hit after handing off “if the quarterback has an option,”
    =======================================
    If that’s a rule, get rid of it. In its stead – tackle the person who has the ball and don’t tackle anyone who doesn’t. The second part shouldn’t be necessary.

  31. I think his point is that a low, unnecessary shot to a players knees after he hands off the ball is a personal foul. Him calling it roughing the passer is really besides the point.

    I don’t see how this is different from any other hand off from the shotgun formation. It’s not like Bradford pretended he still had the football. Sure, it could have been play action but still … you shouldn’t be able to take a shot at a guy’s knees because he might have not handed the ball off. With the crappy QB play in this league they don’t need to lose QBs on stuff like this.

  32. When your argument is that Jerome Boger has made a correct call, you need to step back and re-evaluate your position.

  33. Chip, all you need to know is since Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are not your QB roughing the passer doesn’t apply to your team. That’s basically all you need to know, you might get lucky with a call here and there but don’t expect your QB to be protected unless they are one of those two guys.

  34. mlenenski says:
    Aug 24, 2015 1:07 PM

    No doubt it was a dirty shot intended to injure the quarterback. Suggs never even looked for the ball or the running back. 36 inches to his left and Suggs would have decked Sproles in the backfield.

    This is reminiscent of some of the famous bounty hits on other quarterbacks.

    He probably should be fined.
    —————————————————————-
    A. No chance to get Sproles, wrong angle, moving too fast.
    B. Celek (87) either missed an assignment on Suggs or his initial pass set (Suggs’ read on the play) made Suggs think it was pass. Celek set pass for 1/2 second then continued to miss his block on LB 57. In fairness he hit 57 and was tossed aside.
    C. Bounty? That comment barely registers considering how ridiculous it is. If the Eagles were playing an NFC East team, perhaps. As a non conference opponent, no. Just no.
    C.

  35. Now every read option looking play may not be an actual read option when he calls it, but its not whether he actually called a read option that should make it a penalty or not. It’s what it looks like on the field to the officiating crew and the defensive players. If a QB is in shotgun and he has the option to run with the ball then the QB is no longer a passer, he is a runner. Whether he decides to throw it the second he’s hit or pitch it is irrelevant. He’s a runner. He can be hit following the NFL rules of proper tackling to any one else who is deemed a runner.

    The only reason Chip is arguing this is to protect his fragile knees QB. And to use the read option to exploit defenses like he did in college.

    Hey Chip, tell your QB not to option the ball and he’ll be fine.

  36. Sure, Chip. The fact that you’re taking a lot of heat over exposing your fragile QB to legal hits like Suggs’ has nothing to do with your comments, does it?

    Stop being disingenuous. Everyone, including you, knows that the play was a zone-read look.

  37. jamesefallen says:
    Aug 24, 2015 1:18 PM
    Dean Blandino said that a quarterback can be hit after handing off “if the quarterback has an option,”
    =======================================
    If that’s a rule, get rid of it. In its stead – tackle the person who has the ball and don’t tackle anyone who doesn’t. The second part shouldn’t be necessary.

    ———————————————-

    If that’s your rule, then you pretty much have to outlaw halfback fakes and the play-action pass. Maybe the guy who is going to carry the ball can declare himself before the play? There has to be some leeway to tackle a guy who sells a good fake because getting one or more defenders to fully commit to a player without the ball (up to and including tackling him) is kinda the point of the fake.

  38. Clearly Bradford didn’t have ball. Suggs intended to put Bradford out by injuring his knee. Chip needs to send a message by going after Flacco. Ravens are undisciplined no respect for Harbaugh

  39. if you are going to endlessly run an option offense, you can expect your QB to get hit on every play.. If I were a DC, I would assign a DL to hit the QB every time he hands the ball off to the RB when they run the option. Chip needs to get a clue.. keep running it Chip, Sanchez will be the Starting QB in no time, followed by Teebutt..

    BC

  40. This all boils down to the fact that if Bradford didn’t have bum knees, it would have been a non-issue. It’s not Suggs fault that Bradford has been so injury prone throughout his career.

  41. jvw1982 says:

    Aug 24, 2015 1:11 PMCorrection it was a read option, Tebow ran the same play that he gained 25 yds on… the QB has the option of not giving it to the rb and rolling out to the left….Suggs although is dirty, the play is legal…

    _____________________________________

    Ok, so your logic is because Tim Tebow ran the same play Suggs was just reacting to what he had seen before?

    Would be a great argument if Tebow had seen the field before 4th quarter!!!

    This happened on the 3rd or 4th play the Eagles had the ball in the 1st Q.

    Beyond that Suggs said point blank in his press conference after the game “don’t put a QB in the game that has had 2 knee operations to run the read option. I will go low every time”.

    I’m not really sure why this is a debate he told the world it was intentional.

  42. jingo2015 says:
    Aug 24, 2015 1:33 PM

    If that’s your rule, then you pretty much have to outlaw halfback fakes and the play-action pass. Maybe the guy who is going to carry the ball can declare himself before the play? There has to be some leeway to tackle a guy who sells a good fake because getting one or more defenders to fully commit to a player without the ball (up to and including tackling him) is kinda the point of the fake.

    ———————————————–

    Exactly. Florio said it best himself the other day: “If a team is going to try to confuse defenders regarding who actually has the ball, defenders shouldn’t be punished for guessing wrong.”

  43. Such bs. The whole zone-read trend is designed to confuse defenders into going after the wrong guy. In the milliseconds a defender has to make a decision, that moment of indecision is exploited. If the team runs any zone-read at all, then it’s unreasonable to expect the defender to have a coach’s eye-in-the-sky perspective and to make the correct call on your running QB.

    Don’t run the zone-read, and the defenders are never in question about whether or not your QB is a QB or a running back.

  44. Of this I’m certain, Blandino’s statement and description is going to comeback to bite him in the butt. If he thought that was a read option play he should attend a football 101 class all the teams have one to teach women the game.

  45. purpleguy says:
    Aug 24, 2015 12:58 PM
    Seemed like more of a play action play call than read option — the guy that called the actual play should know.
    ——–

    It was so NOT a play action play. Bradford stepped forward, put the ball in the RB’s belly, READ the way the D reacted, and then released the ball. That is a text book definition of READ OPTION.

    An you’re right, no coach has ever bent the truth a little, has he??? If Chip is upset about his QB getting hit the worst thing he can say in this situation is “Yeah, it was a read option, but I still think it was RTP.”

    That would make him a complete, utter moron. In a public forum (press conference). Give me a break.

  46. Listen, I’m not a fan of the wussification of the NFL with all the rules protecting the QB, and offensive players in general…..BUT, do we really want to be watching a game between Tyler Thigpen and Curtis Painter?

    Seriously, just think about it. The star driven QBs are what drive teams fan bases and $$$$$$$ whether we want to admit it or not.

    A January match up of Scott Tolzien vs. Tavaris Jackson is something I just don’t want to watch and I can admit that, no offense to those two players.
    I’d much rather ‘pamper the QB’ and have a Aaron Rodgers vs Russell Wilson match up. The NFL knows this as well.

  47. So, it’s not RTP. Would everyone agree that on a non-option play a dive at the knees is Unnecessary Roughness?
    =========================================
    If so, then defensive linemen have a lot to be ticked-off about.

  48. Well if Kelly will give the other 31 teams a video analysis of how to tell his read options from his straight shotgun runs, Bradford may get hit less.

  49. So if he goes low he’s dirty.

    If he goes high, he’s getting a flag, hurting his team and maybe his pocketbook.

    If he avoids contact and Bradford actually has the ball due to a botched handoff or fake, he misses the tackle and risks a big play.

    Is there a situation that can be chosen where the defensive player is in the right?

  50. Everyone that is arguing the legality (or lack thereof ) of the hit is missing the point. The point is that it was cheap, as in dirty. Suggs came free, didn’t trip or stumble, and had no reason not to go for the chest or waist other than to end Bradley’s season or even his career.
    As it is, Bradley escaped unharmed, so in essence, Suggs blew it. He failed.

  51. NFL hypocrisy at it’s best.

    Where is the investigation the Saints had to go thru? Why is it that Baltimore is allowed to actively try to end careers when the Saints got heavy fines and suspensions just for being alleged to have?

    Suggs admitted he tried to end the guys career and no suspension? Is admitting that you want to hurt people conduct beneficial or detrimental to the league?

    #firegoodell

  52. Watch the play again. It’s pretty clear that it’s a read option. Why would Bradford hang the hand off out there so long if there wasn’t an option to pull and run?

    Kelly is wrong. He made a bad call, he’s doing the same thing that Harbs did last year in preseason. Good play by Suggs, not dirty at all.

  53. caddy4bp says:

    Call it what you want Chip, but its designed to confuse the defense. The defender has to make a decision on who to tackle.
    ================================

    You see the problem here is simple, we need to have special rules for the Ravens defense, you can’t confuse them, no play option passes, no read options, no eligible/ineligible reporting, apparently they are poorly coached.

  54. It doesn’t matter if it was a read-option or not. It looked like one. The defense doesn’t know what play was called. Defenders have to believe what their eyes tell them, not what they THINK or EXPECT is going to happen. The eyeball test says it was a read-option and Suggs reacted accordingly.

  55. caddy4bp says: Aug 24, 2015 1:04 PM

    Call it what you want Chip, but its designed to confuse the defense. The defender has to make a decision on who to tackle. That was a terrible call by Chippy who got bailed out by Boger with his ruling. Maybe come the actual season Boger will understand the rule better.

    ==================================

    This is close to how I feel. Kelly wants to have the best of both worlds. He always wants to run a style of offense that looks like he’s running the option but in fact much of the time he’s not but he wants the benefit of confusing the other team but not ever have his QB at risk. I’m sorry but you can’t feign an option play and not expect the defense to play the appropriate defense…

  56. That’s not what Kelly said. Blandino said the play was an inside zone read option which it wasn’t. The play was simply an inside hand off to the RB. It is no different then a play action from under center where the QB can hand off or throw. Bradford has the same option to pass or throw not to run. In Blandino’s feeble mind Bradford became a running back therfore Suggs hit was legal. Peyton Manning along with a bunch of others run the same inside hand off plays from a shot gun formation and they don’t get blown up. What needs to be clarified is what constitutes inside zone read from a simple ball fake hand off.

  57. I’m surprised that Chip has an opinion on football matters….after all, he never discusses the fact that he was previously married.

    Anyway….

    A similar play happened during the Titans/Rams game last night when Mariotta was hit after he handed the ball off. The commentators mentioned that Mariotta needs to learn to go to a passing posture to at least draw the penalty.

  58. The ref called a roughing penalty. I guess HE was the one confused. Chip is just saying he agreed with the ref. Going for the knees of the QB is a penalty. Get over your Chip bashing. He is saying what every coach in the NFL would say in trying to protect his QB.

  59. @official game, and from the exact same alignment with the RB doing the exact same thing to the point of the handoff, you can run a play where the QB has the option to run.

    In fact, that is whole point of a lot of pistol/shotgun read option. You give the defense a look that could be several different things, make them commit, and then pick the poison that hurts them the most.

    The difference is in the mind of the OC and the QB. How is the defense or the referee meant to know that?

    From under center, the QB is dropping back when they hand off, or play action into a passing posture.

    From shotgun/pistol, until they take up a passing posture it is ambiguous whether there was a run option.

  60. It should have been unnecessary roughness, as someone pointed out. It was a dirty play, since Suggs dove at Bradford’s knees.

  61. Suggs better realize that the old rule applies here; what goes around — comes around, and his knee(s) may be someone’s target some day.

  62. Kelly is BS. Bradford handed the ball off then pulled his hands to his stomach as if he was going to pull the ball in and choose to run or pass. It was the same exact play that Tebow ran for 25 yards on in the fourth quarter. I guess Kelly doesn’t think that people can go back and look at that play over and over on DVR or Game Pass and clearly Bradford is faking keeping the ball and therefore was tackled legitimately. Now if people think that was a hard hit from Suggs, clearly haven’t watched Suggs play because if Suggs wanted to on that play, he could have ended Bradford’s career.

  63. It was dirty.
    Suggs went right for his knees.
    He’ll be the first baby to cry if someone cut blocks him and get his knees/leg…

  64. I agree that it wasn’t roughing the passer, but it absolutely was a late hit, and Suggs had no business hitting Bradford, who was not playfaking in any way, and was just standing there behind the run. I do agree, though, that if Suggs was trying to hurt Bradford he could’ve hit him much harder.

  65. and for the morons who keep saying its a penalty because he hit his knee, that only applies to qb’s who are in the pocket in the passing posture. Of course, the experts in here know more than the head of officiating.

  66. riflemanlax says:
    Aug 24, 2015 12:59 PM

    Ok, it’s not roughing the passer. Going for the knees on a QB who’s handed the ball off is dirty. Going for the knees on any player for that matter is dirty. Look at the replay or a photo. He’s moving in a downward movement when he could have just hit Bradford in the thighs, waist, or chest easily.

    ————————————–

    Running full speed he was caught between the 2, his guy was the QB. he was falling down and forward cus he got caught in between the 2 things and reacted by doing what he could do once he reacted and he took the knees out. if he didnt get caught between the 2 and stayed on the QB and focused the QB, he woulda lit the QB up in the chest area and then people would be calling that dirty somehow.

    Im sick of fans and teams getting on board with our powder puff society and whining about everything. Might as well strap flags on the waist and go flag football with our baby soft society

  67. rynehawk says:
    Aug 24, 2015 2:00 PM
    So if he goes low he’s dirty.

    If he goes high, he’s getting a flag, hurting his team and maybe his pocketbook.
    ——————————————-

    Stab in the dark here, but I’m pretty sure there’s a big area to hit someone above his knees and below his neck. On most people that’s like 80% of their mass.

  68. Running full speed he was caught between the 2, his guy was the QB. he was falling down and forward cus he got caught in between the 2 things and reacted by doing what he could do once he reacted and he took the knees out. if he didnt get caught between the 2 and stayed on the QB and focused the QB, he woulda lit the QB up in the chest area and then people would be calling that dirty somehow.

    Im sick of fans and teams getting on board with our powder puff society and whining about everything. Might as well strap flags on the waist and go flag football with our baby soft society

    ————-

    Suggs himself claimed he eased up….so much for the full speed and not having time argument.

    And yeah, Suggs was probably caught between two players trying to figure out if Sam Bradford, the NFL’s greats running threat, was going to run with it.

    Dude, stop embarrassing yourself.

    This isn’t about a powder puff society, it’s about a loud mouthed clown taking a cheap shot in pre-season.

  69. Okay, so I didn’t see that same play ran with Tebow where he kept the ball and ran? Just stop Chip. You guys sound like the Patriots here.

  70. Okay, so I didn’t see that same play ran with Tebow where he kept the ball and ran? Just stop Chip. You guys sound like the Patriots here.
    ——
    Yes, they called a read option with Tebow (WHO CAN RUN). What does that have to do with anything? LOL

    Chip has already said that they have only run the read option with Tebow, pay attention.

  71. Good Lord people….he hit Bradford at the waist with first contact and was almost already making contact when he still had the ball.

    I’m not a Raven or Suggs fan by any means, but the fact that this was flagged to begin with just shows you how much of a crock it is turning into. That same play happens every single night in a HS or college game a half dozen times per game and it’s good hustle on the part of Suggs.

    Those of you that think Suggs could determine it wasn’t a fake in real time are delusional.

  72. for the experts: Not every shotgun run is a zone-read play. We didn’t run any zone-reads. We had this conversation last year. We don’t run as much zone-read as everyone thinks we do. We’re blocking the back side. [Bradford] isn’t reading anything. He was just handing the ball off.”

  73. you don’t get to determine when its a read and when its not a read, Chip. And actually, neither do the refs.

    If Bradford doesn’t want to get hit, he needs to turn around to face the defender and clearly NOT have the ball. In any and all other circumstances, he can be hit as though he has the ball.

    This isn’t an area of judgment. You don’t ‘say that Suggs “should have” known the ball was handed off. We have no idea what Suggs saw or didn’t see there regarding the ball and the Running back.

    For Bradford NOT to get hit, he needs to put his hands up in the air or otherwise show there is no way he has the ball.

  74. Bottom line:

    if the same exact play runs the same exact way, but the QB in question is Peyton Manning, Blandino reads the same exact passage from the rulebook and concludes that it WAS illegal, because the QB was clearly out of the play by the time Suggs arrived on the scene.

    This is truth and everyone here knows it.

  75. I watched it live in real time and there wasn’t much that stuck out about it – you can’t expect the defender to wait and see who has the ball before they attempt to make a tackle. Additionally the defender knows they can’t go anywhere hear the QB’s head so they go low.

    I’m not a fan of either team and watched it as a disinterested party and it wasn’t a big deal until they slowed it down – but at full speed I didn’t see anything wrong with the play.

  76. Well, Jason Peters (you know, your starting LT who was on the field) has confirmed that it was an option play…

    Of course, it may just be that he also got it wrong – at least that would explain why he let Suggs run by him untouched!

  77. A lot of people on here seem to be stuck up on some pretty stupid stuff. Half of you are caught up in the “roughing the passer” call, the other half seem to act like Suggs threw a normal, every play type of hit that was possibly late, but besides that, just normal

    So the ref called roughing the passer when it should of been unnecessary roughness. Who cares? It’s a personal foul either way

    Any way you look at it, it’s a dirty play.I don’t care who you are, what position you play. If you have a clear shot at a guys chest, and you decide to dive down at his knees, it’s a dirty play that you are clearly trying to injure someone on. He could of hit Bradford anywhere he wanted, he even hesitated before DECIDING to go at his knees

    The play was NOT a read option. It was a handoff. Literally every team in the league has run plays out of the shotgun. If they are now saying it’s legal to go after a QB’s knee on any run play out of the shotgun because there MAY be play action coming, that is a major rule change they need to make sure everyone is aware of

  78. If a defensive lineman is getting to the QB before he gets rid of the ball on a handoff out of the shotgun, you have far bigger problems that need your attention.

  79. A little hypocritical to say that you can’t tackle a runner(qb or otherwise) at the knees but you can block a player by diving straight at their knees as long as they are not already engaged in a block with another player.

  80. why are we even talking about this? was settled years ago… you run that sorta play where its designed to confuse or trick the DE .. defenses responded with 1 guy takes the QB 1 guy takes the RB … you leave the DE unblocked trying to trick him hes gonna blow up ur QB thats his GUY ! hitting at the knees? not dirt guys tackle RB’s there all the time … this is silly .. better do what Washington team did with RGIII in response which was if he handed it off RGIII threw his hands up in the air and immediately moved away hands in air… sorry but you run silly high school or college plays and the NFL defenses adjust and if my guy is the QB regardless im blowing em up period thats my job

  81. No surprise, Kelly doesn’t know the NFL rule book.

    In the meantime they look like a lock to win the preseason Super Bowl.

  82. “Kelly is entitled to his own opinions, but he’s not entitled to his own facts. And Kelly is simply wrong on the facts here.”

    Michael David Smith is entitled to his own opinions, but he’s not entitled to his own facts. And Michael David Smith is simply wrong on the facts here.

    Fixed!

  83. Some people don’t really read before they write. I guess that would be inconvenient to the story they want to tell. Kelly WAS NOT confused. He stated that Blandino was wrong about the play being a Read-Option. It was a straight handoff from the shotgun. That does not, or should not, make the quarterback fair game to have a LB dive at his knees. Confused?

  84. What was Suggs suppose to do..you dont block him so he comes flying in..was he suppose to stop and wait to see if the ball was a handoff or a play action?? He went for the qb..and didnt go for the knees at all..he is up around the thigh area and looked like he was going to wrap.him up for a tackle but let off..if he wanted to he could of crushed Bradford. Get use to it eagles fans..your a finesse offense, all ot takes is a physical defense to knock you off your game..you only made it across the 50 yd line 1 time against my 9ers last year cause we just threw you around.

  85. Posted this before, don’t know why it disappeared.

    MDS is wrong in saying that “Roughing the Passer” doesn’t apply here. The whole “clearly doesn’t have the ball” and “standing still/moving away” language that Blandino cites regarding QBs running the RO or shotgun snaps is directly from part f of the “Roughing the Passer” article in the NFL official playing rules. Blandino is ignoring that the actual article and rule reference “passing posture” and “passer” so he can apply it to the read-option. That is why the officials in the game cited the “Roughing the Passer” rule.

    The issue is that the actual rules don’t address the read-option so Blandino cherry-picks from the Roughing the Passer rules. He disregards the “passing posture”/”passer” language wrt part f of the Roughing the Passer article while still citing the “passing posture”/”passer” distinction in claiming that other parts of the same article don’t apply, such as part e which prohibits forcible hits to the knee area or below. It’s entirely inconsistent.

  86. “That does not, or should not, make the quarterback fair game to have a LB dive at his knees. ”

    I’m not fan of guys diving at QB’s legs but how can you have the rules guess what is going on? It turned out to be a real handoff in this case but it just as easily could have been a fake. How would you word rules to cover all possibilities? It’s a penalty if it really is a handoff, but if it is a fake and the QB tries to run he’s fair game, but if he fakes and then tries to pass it’d be a penalty again? Logically, if there is any chance of it being a run (meaning anything other than a straight drop-back pass) then you need to let defenders play it like it is a run.

  87. thorobredinc says:
    Aug 24, 2015 5:40 PM

    What was Suggs suppose to do..you dont block him so he comes flying in..was he suppose to stop and wait to see if the ball was a handoff or a play action?? He went for the qb..and didnt go for the knees at all..he is up around the thigh area and looked like he was going to wrap.him up for a tackle but let off..if he wanted to he could of crushed Bradford. Get use to it eagles fans..your a finesse offense, all ot takes is a physical defense to knock you off your game..you only made it across the 50 yd line 1 time against my 9ers last year cause we just threw you around.
    ————————————————-
    The same logic could be applied to pass-rushers trying to sack the QB. The league expects them to be able to stop their momentum on a dime if the QB passes the ball, and if they don’t then they have no problem throwing the flag. If that standard is allowed by the league for drop-back passers then why is it unreasonable to also expect the defender to identify when the QB doesn’t have the ball(pretty clear in this case IMO) and when he doesn’t to not try to tackle him? I’m fine with the argument that the defender doesn’t have the ability to do that, but it’s the same way in the first scenario. The league needs to be consistent and provide the same degree of protection when a QB has clearly handed the ball off as they do when a QB has thrown a pass.

  88. Agreed. If they are really concerned about QB safety, then change the rules to disallow a QB to run at all unless forced out of the pocket. See this:

    A quarterback shall be deemed a runner if at anytime he moves parallel or toward the LOS after reaching his deepest drop. All protection afforded a runner is applicable at that time. Should the quarterback be deemed to have been forced from a passing pocket, and retains his passing posture (ie , still looking to throw) then he is afforded QB protection rules until he crosses the LOS

  89. jjb0811 says:
    Aug 24, 2015 12:53 PM
    Great, more rules to protect QB’s are coming.

    ——————————————————————-
    We don’t need any new rules, there’s already rules on the books that cover that play. The official errored in calling it roughing the passer when it was unnecessary roughness. There was a flag thrown, and it should have been, it just should have been classified differently.

    Where Kelly is wrong is he’s misinterpreting roughing the passer for unnecessary roughness. He just knows it should have been flagged and he’s correct.

    Now if the officials come back and say it’s legal to go at a quarterback knees in the shotgun during a handoff then defensive players are going to start taking out the knees of every quarterback handing off in the shotgun, or running drawls.

    So the leagues got some explaining to do, and preferably before defensive players go knee hunting.

  90. It was a “dirty” play. The RB is 20 yards up the field and Suggs is trying to hurt the QB, knowing full well he’s coming off 2 knee surgeries. Here’s waiting for karma to pay the Ravens and Suggs a visit.

  91. therealtrenches says:
    Aug 24, 2015 3:30 PM
    Bottom line:

    if the same exact play runs the same exact way, but the QB in question is Peyton Manning, Blandino reads the same exact passage from the rulebook and concludes that it WAS illegal, because the QB was clearly out of the play by the time Suggs arrived on the scene.

    This is truth and everyone here knows it.
    ==================
    Truth

  92. The argument over whether it was a zone read play aside, the quarterback simply got tackled on the play. Which is going to happen a lot more often when the regular season begins.

  93. I don’t think it’s accurate to call Kelly confused and state your own opinion as the obvious truth because there is vast and I mean vast disagreement on this play by professional analysts on tv and radio, players, officials, and official’s bosses not to mention all the posters on this board.

    But I believe this: Since Blandino made this statement now, at some point this year a top-tier QB named Brady, Manning, Rogers, Wilson, Romo, Luck, or Roethlisberger etc., is going to make a handoff from the shotgun and he’s going to be out for the season since it’s ok to blow up his knees on this type of play and all you’re going to get is a 15-yard penalty at the most.

    And since that’s how it’s going to be then Chip Kelly better adjust and not put Bradford at any more risk than necessary.

  94. No one should have a problem with him getting hit, it’s just a tad curious that suggs went for his knees. He could have easily tackled him in a normal, non career threatening manner

  95. The red shirts are coming off the QBs now so they are going to get hit some on plays.

    While Suggs hit may not have been that late, it was low near the knee and that’s the kind of thing that will get fights started in games.

    Shouldn’t try to hit the knee of a QB coming off a knee injury in a preseason game. Unwritten rule.

  96. “Shouldn’t try to hit the knee of a QB coming off a knee injury in a preseason game. ”

    A QB coming off a knee injury shouldn’t call a run-option play in a preseason game.

  97. QBs like Brady and Manning are not going to get hit on handoffs from shotgun.

    Why?

    Their offense will block the ends.

    Why?

    They aren’t running the veer.

    Chip is a liar, that’s veer every day, twice on Sunday.

    Release the end, read, handoff or pull.

  98. To me I don’t think the point is whether it was read option are not. And frankly I don’t care. It probably wasn’t roughing the passer. But it was a DIRTY play. Diving at another players knees, come on Suggs what gives. Now what kind of mood was Suggs be in if someone dove at his knees. Oh, and the people who feel it’s part of the game.and it’s no big deal. I hope whoever your team is. That someone dives at your quarterbacks knees. At least once or twice every game. On a shotgun hand off every regular season game.

  99. The issue here is the use of the QB to create some uncertainty in the defense’s mind.

    If you want to use the QB to confuse the defense in trying to hide the fact that he has just handed the ball off, then you should expect the defense to sometimes be fooled and thus hit your QB.

    If you don’t want your QB hit as much, then don’t use him to fool the defense into thinking that he still has the ball.

    Some of the comments from the Eagles relate to the fact that it’s only the preseason. On the radio, there were comments about how Suggs shouldn’t have gone low. Thing is, Suggs didn’t start going low. He saw the QB – and in his correct interpretation of the rules – knew he was fair game. The QB moved, and Suggs made a tackle that happened to end up being low.

    If this was done by a player on the bubble of making the roster, then he would be applauded for an instinctive play. Had that same player thought – it’s only the preseason, maybe this tackle might end up being lower than ideal, perhaps I should pull up and let him go – then had Bradford still has the ball, then that player would have been criticised not only by the coaching staff and fans, but the media too.

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