Jonathan Martin shares personal pain, admits multiple suicide attempts

AP

Jonathan Martin hadn’t said anything about his departure from the Panthers and the NFL, and little about his days with the Dolphins since he was in the middle of the Richie Incognito bullying scandal.

But the former Dolphins and 49ers tackle wrote a heartfelt message this morning on social media this morning, expressing the pain he felt from his high school days to his NFL career.

Your job leads you to attempt to kill yourself multiple times,” he wrote.

The message traces his unhappiness to his early days, when he never felt like he fit in at private schools in California, saying he never felt “black enough” and wasn’t accepted by either white or black classmates.

He said that led to to drinking too much, smoking marijuana “constantly” and other bad behavior, but clearly he wasn’t comfortable with the persona he created to tried to fit into the football culture.

But he also ended the note with gratitude, and an offering to others who might feel similarly.

“You realize who truly has had your back,” he wrote. “Who the people are who you need to embrace. And cherish every moment you have with them. You let your demons go, knowing that, perhaps, sharing your story can help some other chubby, goofy, socially isolated sensitive kid getting bullied in America who feels like no one in the world cares about them.

“And let them know you’re not alone.”

While Incognito’s busy working for the Bills, Martin continued to work in silence, which was his right. But Wednesday, he chose to break his silence with a powerful message.

100 responses to “Jonathan Martin shares personal pain, admits multiple suicide attempts

  1. …this is NOW a story about who had heart, determination, and the strength to continue playing professional football. One made it back to the NFL when no one wanted him, the other quit when he hit a couple of bumps in the road. The NFL ain’t for everybody.

  2. So he threw Incognito and the whole Fin organization under the bus…
    Nice.
    Cost a lot of people an awful lot for his “Unhappiness.”

  3. “…you learn how to be a compulsive liar, act as if you’re a victim and stab your teammates and friends in the back to protect yourself.”

    – Jonathan Martin

  4. Scenario 1:

    Everything up to this was a lie it had nothing to do with bullying and 100% to do with his mental illness.

    “sharing your story can help some other chubby, goofy, socially isolated sensitive kid getting bullied in America who feels like no one in the world cares about them.”

    Martin’s parents should be ashamed of themselves but they are lawyers.

    Scenario 2:

    Just more lies from Martin.

    Dude needs serious mental help. Called it on Sam, calling it on this kid.

  5. In legal circles, Martin is known as a “thin skull Plaintiff” or an “eggshell Plaintiff.” It just means that Martin is far more susceptible to injury or damage than his peers.

  6. With all due respect, Martin’s problems had little to nothing to do with Richie Incognito, and a whole lot to do with his own mental issues.

    So I guess we can expect Martin to apologize for blaming others for his problems? Didn’t think so.

    That said, I hope Martin gets the help he needs. Perhaps he could start by getting over his tendency to brood and feel sorry for himself, and spend more of his time concentrating on trying to be a positive influence on those around him. But you have to get over yourself to do that.

  7. This guy has vast personal issues and he is always trying to blame everyone and everything else. Sounds like the exact type of person who would be raised by workplace lawyers. His problem isn’t football, it’s his upbringing.

  8. I have never really liked Martin’s position, but I can certainly relate. It can be a lonely world for some, when everything feels like an attack. When friends wear faces of distaste and you hate them for it; because you feel betrayed.

    I am not saying he is not responsible, if he portrayed anything but the truth. I am saying he is responsible but not because of malicious intent. He is responsible because he brought harm to others while trying to protect himself. This may be the most common way. It is sad for everyone involved.

    It’s too bad the NFL has no proper way to review these situations properly in order to protect everyone.

  9. Seriously, what the heck went on in that 2014 49ers locker room?

    The whole Borland mess, other retirements, driving Martin to feel suicidal, players divided on Harbaugh.

    Maybe Baalke/York got it right clearing out that coaching staff. It was trending down FAST

  10. “stevebowl says:
    Aug 26, 2015 12:54 PM
    So it wasn’t about ‘bullying’ but rather a lifelong issue with depression that Incognito and teammates walked into?”

    I’d say it’s about both. Depression and suicidal thoughts are obviously serious things. Given Incognito’s conduct (for which he got suspended), I’d say Incognito made it worse. If you’re already in a sensitive spot, having bullies around you is going to make it much worse.

  11. Dude you went to Stanford get your big butt up and make something of yourself. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and get busy living…

  12. “this guy is a mentally weak man who obviously has a lot of problems. its unfortunate he made others pay for his weakness.”

    This is exactly the mindset that continues to stigmatize mental illness. And how is Martin being weak? He just admitted his depression, suicidal thoughts, abuse problems to the world. Do you know how hard that can be?

  13. Depression is insidious if his tweet encourages one person that needs help to get it then it is worth more than whatever amount of ridicule gets posted here that he will never see anyway.

  14. How would that statement help anyone else who is getting bullied? It offers no advice and I hope nobody who is bullied uses the methods he did to cope with it. Be yourself, learn life lessons as you get older, and don’t let others put you down is a start.

  15. stevebowl says:
    Aug 26, 2015 12:54 PM
    So it wasn’t about ‘bullying’ but rather a lifelong issue with depression that Incognito and teammates walked into?

    ——————————

    Why assume that it wasn’t about both?

  16. Martin has issues, no doubt. But it doesn’t change the fact that Incognito is a dirt bag.

    And all you people who are making fun of Martin — I hope you never experience anyone you care about who has mental issues. It’s the hardest thing in the world watching someone suffer from something they have no control over and you can’t help them. Physical disabilities are horrible — mental disabilities are worse.

    It would serve you right, though. And you should be ashamed of yourselves.

  17. The media is going to eat this up and turn it into another poor Jonathan Martin narrative. While the guy has clear mental issues, he’s only putting this out there so people won’t (accurately) call him a quitter.

  18. Tough crowd here!

    It sounds like he had some troubles going into the NFL, but the bullying certainly didn’t help. The fact that he had issues doesn’t make it okay that others bullied him, either. Hopefully he’s in a good place, mentally, now. Incognito seemed to have learned from the incident, too, and he got his second chance and seems to be doing well, too. Good for them both.

    Not sure why everyone is so keen on insulting a guy for having mental health issues. Things like people making fun of others for having depression is one of the primary reasons people are so reluctant to get help for it or admit it publicly. Untreated mental health issues leads to suicides and shootings. It’s not something to celebrate.

  19. A lot of tough guys on here. Gotta say, you all impress the hell out of me.
    I’m sure you all could teach this young man a thing or two about courage, strength of character, mental toughness, etc. from the lofty perch atop your couch or office chair.

  20. “Powerful message”? Not sure about that. But he showed everyone how to quit on themselves! Waste of talent, to soft and no drive. Good luck in the real world kid.but he prob enjoys his moms basement.

  21. At any time he could have said publicly that it wasn’t about Incognito, or the trainer or the Oline coach who got fired. He could have easily stood up and said that it was the environment, not just there, but in all locker rooms that he’s experienced throughout his life.

    Instead of doing that, he let those guys all get fired.

  22. To the people suggesting he needs “mental help” as an insult…

    Yes, he needs help for a mental illness. Clearly, since he made attempts on his life he has an illness, and that is nothing to insult.

    This is not to suggest that he should be excused for hurting others, as a symptom of his illness.

    But you know what contributes to a society where people hide their illness, and hurt others in the process? Here are examples:

    “He is a big baby”
    “Built like Tarzan, behaves like Jane”
    etc.

  23. I’ve supported J Mart from the beginning, but some of this is stupid. You went to the same school as Jason Collins did in high school, and if he can survive while being black AND gay, you can deal with it. I realize it’s real tough growing up in the mean streets of Bel-Air, but grow a pair dude.

  24. It’s pretty clear that this guy has some issues that are leaving him challenged to deal with life in general, much less the pressure cooker of football played at the highest level. Whatever kind of support system he had at Stanford failed him badly since it’s pretty clear the last thing he needed to do at that point was enter the NFL draft.

    You kind of wonder how these things didn’t emerge during teams’ pre-draft screening and interviews but in any event, what’s done is done and I hope he can find the help he needs and move on.

  25. This guy and Michael Sam are in a league of their own when it comes to ultimate “look at me” drama queens.

    It’s tough to fail multiple times at committing suicide without seriously injuring yourself or being in the hospital. An NFL player of former NFL player would have been all over the news. Especially a football player that was involved in the only bullying scandal in the history of high school sports or higher.

  26. primemover1 says:
    Aug 26, 2015 1:04 PM

    Victim mentality. Nothing is, ever has been, or ever will be, his fault. Pitiful.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    This, all day.

    I’m not saying that mental health isn’t a real issue. It is (my wife works in the field). But I’ve yet to see Martin take responsibility for anything that has gone wrong in his life. So yeah, it is pitiful.

    And P.S.: You went on Twitter to divulge your mental health issues to the world. Really???

  27. Say what you want about Martin but sorry, I just can’t see Incognito as the victim here. Maybe if he hadn’t spent most of his adult life acting like a turd, he’d be a more sympathetic figure now.

  28. This is nothing more than a cry for help. He desperately wants his parents to realize how bad things are and to get him the help that he needs.

    This is his SECOND attempt at this.

    The first time was when he walked out on his job with the Dolphins. Instead of acknowledging the issues and helping him at that time, his parents develop this elaborate bullying scandal to help him ‘save face’ and continue his NFL career. A career that he obviously does NOT want!

    Hopefully this time they help him instead of claiming that his account was hacked!

  29. It’s absolutely unreal to me that commenters here think they have any right to criticize anything said by Martin. He is obviously mentally ill (depressed), suicidal, and reaching out by trying to get others to see things from his perspective. What happened with the Dolphins is irrelevant. We’re talking about a man’s life, and that means he should do whatever he wants to make himself feel good about who he is and what he does.

    You guys are the worst.

  30. OK, you know, at first, I felt sympathy for the guy. After all, bullying is prevalent in our society, whether in the schoolyard, on the Web or in the workplace. In this last instance, it’s not the kind of thing you can solve by punching someone’s lights out, although it might be tempting.

    Only now, we all come to realize that the whole “bullying” situation in Miami was the result of personal inadequacies, being maladjusted and ill equipped to deal with life’s pitfalls, which are many.

    Nice.

    This whole fiasco could have been easily avoidable if Martin had manned up and went to see a therapist to take care of those issues, which had NOTHING to do with the Dolphins organization.

  31. Interesting and sad most of the comments here.

    First, every person looks at the world through their own lens. We are not all the same. There are a million reasons for differences in who we and how we react to circumstances. So my first thought is, this guy’s reactions to his environment are very different than say the majority of people. To get to his level and think like he does is a surprise. He clearly is not cut out for this (the NFL) environment. I am surprised he did not quit much earlier on.

    Secondly, mental illness or just the human psychological condition is a very individualized thing. Those of you pretending to know what his intentions are with these posts are so out there. If someone has some level of mental illness, their actions aren’t that of a rational, more stable person. Hence, those actions won’t make sense to many people. They can be selfish, harmful to others, deceitful, egotistical, etc.

    If he has issues…true issues, I won’t pass judgement like many of you. And for the record, I don’t support his lies and causing problems for others. I am saying if he is mentally ill, we know why he does those things. I just hope he gets help.

  32. Jonathan Martin is who he is. I feel sorry that he is living life in obviously mental pain and I’m not going to insult him for it. I hope he can find peace and happiness. We all deserve that.

    I am just tired of the media taking a situation like this and labeling it a “powerful message”. What exactly is “powerful” about posting “Your job leads you to attempt to kill yourself multiple times” on social media? Employment at any job is VOLUNTARY. If you believe your job is leading you to suicide, you should quit just like J. Martin did. With that said, attempting suicide is NOT “powerful”. I realize it’s a symptom of mental illness, but it’s also a weak and selfish decision. J. Martin deserves to pursue happiness in any way he chooses but let’s not glorify spilling your dirty laundry on social media. If he has suicidal thoughts, he needs to share that with close friends, family or professional counselors. Praising this behavior simply encourages others to blame society for their self loathing behavior vs. seeking the help that they need.

  33. Mental issues are very tough to deal with, I know I have a couple if siblings with them.

    The first problem is denial by the people around the sick person. Read the lawyer parents who want to blame everyone but their son.

    Second problem is the moral supremists on the internet and in the media who demand someone’s head on a platter because there always “has” to to be some “bad” person.

    Life is tough, people are going to fail due to their own failings. Get over it folks, there isn’t always a villain.

    But this is where PC has led us a “victim” has to have an appropriate “villain”.

    Get yourself some marbles and when you fail look in the mirror first for the guy responsible for your failures.

  34. nicofthenorthstar says:
    Aug 26, 2015 1:17 PM

    A lot of tough guys on here. Gotta say, you all impress the hell out of me.
    I’m sure you all could teach this young man a thing or two about courage, strength of character, mental toughness, etc. from the lofty perch atop your couch or office chair.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I’m a Marine. I’m certain that I’ve been under greater stress and strain than a someone raised by workers comp attorneys, “educated” at Stanford, and made a fine living playing sports.

    So yeah, I could “teach this young man a thing or two about courage, strength of character, mental toughness”.

    Mental health is a real issue. No denying that. But Martin makes himself out to be a victim, never owning their life issues for themselves.

    P.S.: You don’t get a pass on public critique when you spill your life story on Twitter.

  35. The last couple of years have had “experts” criticizing the the League and the the whole culture of football holding Jonathon Martin and Michael Sams up to us as people who were unfairly discriminated against and deprived of opportunity by the likes of Richie Incognito. And now, with Sams whimpering in some corner and Martin still portraying himself as a poor victim instead of a guy who betrayed his team and teammates. Hey, maybe the OG football players had something right and the new critics of the game don’t know squat.

  36. Fact is, J-Mart is bigger, stronger, and more intelligent than the vast majority of people on Earth. His emotional weakness and self-pity are what and will limit his success at anything.

  37. JM, why go public? The majority of folks with similar issues PRIVATELY address them with experienced professionals.
    It appears you seek attention over cure.

  38. So, he’s finally admitting that the whole bullying story wasn’t real. It was all brought on by his own insecurities. I think he and many others owe Incognito an apology.

  39. Speaking from experience, a hallmark of depression is victimizing yourself. Blaming others is often part of it as well. It doesn’t help him to do these things–but such is the illness. Several types of therapy can be quite helpful.

  40. bradyakagod says:
    Aug 26, 2015 1:13 PM
    How would that statement help anyone else who is getting bullied? It offers no advice and I hope nobody who is bullied uses the methods he did to cope with it. Be yourself, learn life lessons as you get older, and don’t let others put you down is a start.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    The part that would help someone is the “you are not alone” part. If you have never suffered from depression it is hard to explain to other people how alone you really feel. You push everyone close to you away. You hide within yourself. You see other people as the enemy, even though you are desperate for their approval. You can’t rationalize that you just need to take responsibility for the actions because the mental illness prevents you from doing so. It feels like being stuck at the bottom of a well, a little part of you screaming that things are not right only to be drowned out by fear and sadness.

    I managed to get help and move forward with my life and I’m glad that I did. I still have to battle with the depression from time to time, but I now have the tools to do so. I hope Mr Martin finds the help he needs so he can turn his life around, and once he’s done so I hope he is able to make amends for the people that he has hurt.

  41. “powerful message”

    This after a column mocking Theismann for hyperbole. I told folks here nearly 2 years ago that it was the beginning of a lawsuit planned by his parasitic lawyer parents. Stay tuned, because here it comes.

  42. Tucker Peterson says:
    Aug 26, 2015 2:45 PM

    If I was Incognito I would sue the league for missed pay from the suspension as well as slander.

    Incognito is a bum who has been thrown off every team he has played for college or pros…stop defending the guy. He got what he deserved and is lucky to have been given another chance….

  43. Only now, we all come to realize that the whole “bullying” situation in Miami was the result of personal inadequacies, being maladjusted and ill equipped to deal with life’s pitfalls, which are many.

    Nice.

    This whole fiasco could have been easily avoidable if Martin had manned up and went to see a therapist to take care of those issues, which had NOTHING to do with the Dolphins organization.
    ________________________________________

    From personal experience, sometimes it feels like you’re being bullied when the other person doesn’t actually mean any harm.

    Guys in locker rooms do things, like put you in a headlock, take something out of your locker and wont give it back, make jokes about having sex with your mom, etc. They may just be having fun, but it makes you feel disrespected, especially when they’re only doing it to you, and when it’s on an every day basis, it gets old really fast. Like was I supposed to do about it? Respond with violence? Ask them to stop (even though they’ll say they’re just playing around)?

    So please don’t try to tell me you know what you’re talking about.

  44. This dude belongs on The Bachelorette or any other one of those “reality” TV series that mirror the putrid PC world we live in. Everyone, EVERYONE on those shows has a story about the tragic life they’ve had, and the amazing hardships they’ve had to muster up the courage to overcome…

    “My Grandma died when I was 10.”

    “I had a bad breakup…”

    “My parents got divorced…”

    “I was forced to live in Minnesota…”

    Grown adults sobbing uncontrollably on national TV. It is absolutely pathetic. We have created an entire generation that is incapable of dealing with even the most basic of issues. This dude cost how many people their jobs?

  45. This sort of crap is all due to the softening of America that is a direct result of the nanny state oh the horror someone was just offended.

    Also caused by things like giving everyone “participation trophies” or not bothering to keep score in games because you don’t want the kids to “feel bad” when they lose.

  46. Kingmj4891 says:
    Aug 26, 2015 1:01 PM
    Scenario 1:

    Everything up to this was a lie it had nothing to do with bullying and 100% to do with his mental illness.
    ______________________________________

    Bullying leads people to attempt suicide

  47. stevebowl says:
    Aug 26, 2015 12:54 PM
    So it wasn’t about ‘bullying’ but rather a lifelong issue with depression that Incognito and teammates walked into?
    _____________________________________

    Being bullied leads to suicide attempts

  48. I gotta refer to the Carlos mencia tiger woods joke saying if I got 100 million dollars (5 million even) there is nothing you could say to offend me.

  49. wow apparently pretty much every commenter here has never had to go through difficult times or deal with mental illness. oh wait, they have dealt with it but because they are all super strong macho men they never let it affect them. paul bunyans and john waynes, every single one.

  50. I would much rather have Jonathan Martin as a friend than Richie Incognito. Just saying

    __________________________________

    I’d rather have Incognito as a friend. Any guy who holds work meetings in strip clubs is bound to be more fun than a self-pitying momma’s boy.

  51. First off I completely understand mental health issues and this guy needs help, now. The problem is no one can force him to get help on e he is an adult unless he pose a risk to himself or the general public.

    Second. The NFL had to know about his mental issues. No way they didn’t. Now, did the Dolphins afford him access to help? I am sure they did

    Third and most important. How were regular players supposed to know he ,by his own admission, ” created” a persona that the players came to know. No where in no place is it ever said Martin asked people to stop ribbing him. He acted as a brother to the other players. If Ted Wells left crap out in the Brady report it’s more probable then not, that Wells left out evidence that completely contradicted lots of stuff Martin claimed

    All was well and good until Miami yanked Martin from the LT position when they found a replacement for him mid season. Up until that point in time Martin said nothing to the players. He just walked out in himself and the team. The media picked it up and extrapolated it to the max.

    I agree the man needs help because he had issues back since the age of 10. SF did not dump him because he was a good player. I honestly believe there was no Back injury but instead he saw he was in no way going to be a starter at Carolina. Again, he invents something to save face because his ego could not take it, again and he walks out on another team and again, the press and media eats it up.

    Mental health issues are a serious concern but there are 10s of thousands if people with mental health issues that would through themselves into a hot fire just to have the opportunities this guy had

    I feel for his mental health but no way will I ever buy into his completely BS poor me stories. It’s getting obvious as time goes by the guy has a young kids mentality and refuses to accept his own actions
    No way is it proper to go thru this world with mental illness blaming everyone else for your mistakes. He is clearly dillusional. He has every aspect of the disease from paranoia to being a narcissist.

  52. People who have never battled depression can’t be sympathetic to it. You have to experience it. I’m not saying that Martin is innocent,but depression is a b….

  53. There is no lab test for any mental illness. No blood sample, urine specimen or MRI or MRE or whatever.
    But there is a lot of money in drugs to ‘treat’ it.

  54. The clueless nature of most of the lunkhead comments here is beyond comprehension. Truly sickening. The men who really need to “get some help” are right here on this page. Have mercy….

  55. 12312 says:
    Aug 26, 2015 4:04 PM
    The clueless nature of most of the lunkhead comments here is beyond comprehension. Truly sickening. The men who really need to “get some help” are right here on this page. Have mercy….
    —–
    So he shouldn’t get help?

  56. Jonathan Martin has a lot of personal reflection to do. I don’t want to accuse him of making up stories or hurting others with embellishment, or creating a world that revolves around anything related to self-victimization.
    The world is full of more hurdles and challenges than any amount of sympathy and oversight can ever protect him and others from. It’s hard out there.
    I wish him the best. I know the NFL is not the ultimate benchmark, but if he made it this far in something that so few can, then he has an ability to succeed elsewhere. Focus on that personal power and use it.

  57. dumbdolphinfan says:
    Aug 26, 2015 1:23 PM
    At any time he could have said publicly that it wasn’t about Incognito, or the trainer or the Oline coach who got fired. He could have easily stood up

    *Nothing* about mental illness is easy.

  58. The guy is obviously mentally unstable. I could have told you that before this story. I pray that Mr. Martin seeks and finds the help he needs.

  59. I agree with everyone who thinks this guy is a clown. It’s one thing to have problems, its another thing to have problems, be aware of them, and then blame other people for your problems. You cost 2 guys their jobs AKA the ability to feed their family. Why? Because you were putting up a front of being their friend, but behind their back were upset and snitched on them?

    If you were going to quit football, why didnt you just quit and not bring everyone else down with you? I appreciate the realness and coming out and being honest, but its just a bad move all around. Glad Incognito is back in the NFL, glad you’re out of it, and I hope the coach that got fired gets another shot.

  60. for those of you wondering why he or people like him don’t “get help” more quickly, maybe it’s because of unsympathetic, fake macho comments like the ones we see here.

  61. He must miss all that sympathy he got from the media a few years ago on laughable claims.

    Let us not forget his mother is a top labor lawyer. That last nonsense clearly was a set up for an employment lawsuit but he had no damages since they paid him to sit around and not play. Now, I am sure he is setting up a concussion lawsuit.

    Sorry, but this guy’s issues started when he was benched and it was learned he could not play. Anything else is an excuse to cover that.

  62. The man needs serious and legitimate help. The reason he doesn’t seek it is because some of the awful comments that are being posted here calling him “sad”. There is a social stigma, and its really unfair and not martins fault. It’s tough to understand if youve never felt it.

  63. I just hope Jonathan does find help for his depression. I do not to read in the sports pages that another football player killed himself because he could not tackle his demons.

  64. If Martin and his advocates worry about comments on a message board, he has bigger problems then I thought.

    He made his money. He got his degree. He has parents in powerful positions. But somehow people think a message board has more influence over his defects, rather than his own responsibility to take care of his own well being. He’s a weak weak weak man child

  65. Yeh and hey troubled kids when you have a problem in your work place let your supervisor know so that he has the opportunity to fix it before you run to the media and your supervisor is fired without having a clue. So there’s that!

  66. He probably does have some mental issues but he is a classic manipulator as well. This is a high profile athlete that went to Stanford and was sure to be drafted by the NFL. He claims to have had multiple suicide attempts but, oddly, none have been verified. People just have a “that poor guy” attitude. He may have though about suicide and that is a serious issue but I doubt he actually made multiple attempts. In what way(S)? Pills, cuts, exhaust? Most of those would cause a hospital stay and a probable intervention yet nobody seems to have noticed. I think it is more likely that this is ANOTHER attempt to get people to feel sorry for him to feed his excuses rather than acknowledge any self blame or legitimate failure. Don’t forget that his “breakdown” was planned and it deflected his failures at his job that led to his being replaced and his quitting because of it. This all comes after he got cut by the 49ers, signed by the Panthers and then quit again. It is a ruse to make people feel sorry for him rather than identify him as a failure and a quitter.

  67. I feel a bit sorry Joe Philbin no wonder he has no hair. Losing his son just before he accepted the Dolphin job, having to up with the scrutiny of hard knocks and dealing with Chad Johnson on said programme as a rookie head coach, dealing with bullygate his second year. I think he had issues with his other son during this time also. You wouldn’t think anything was wrong he just keeps plodding on. He takes a lot of stick by his straight approach but I guess that’s who he is. Probably why he is still sain.

  68. A bright young man who sounds like who’s spent most of his life wishing he were in library instead of a locker room. There will never be a shortage of offensive tackles. But how many 6’5” 315 lb. professors of ancient history are there? Go back to Herodotus and be happy, kid.

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