Judge Berman has several options for Brady ruling

With the official efforts to settle the Tom Brady suspension litigation over (the unofficial efforts, in theory, may continue until a decision is reached and beyond), the question now becomes how Judge Richard M. Berman will rule. That question has several potential answers.

It’s important to remember that no one knows what will happen. People will make predictions, guesses, whatever. Anyone who claims to know precisely what the outcome will be is lying or uninformed.

The goal for the remainder of this post is to make you informed about the options Judge Berman has.

First, he can give the NFL a slam-dunk victory. That would entail upholding the suspension in its entirety, refusing to stay the suspension pending appeal, and forcing Brady and the NFL Players Association to make an immediate effort to persuade the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit to grant an injunction allowing Brady to play pending the appeal.

Second, Judge Berman can give Brady a slam-dunk victory. That would entail vacating the suspension and finding that the league lacks the power under any circumstances to suspend Brady either for having knowledge of a scheme to deflate footballs or for obstructing an NFL investigation. He could then remand the case for further proceedings limited to issuing fines to Brady for the infractions. The NFL could seek an emergency appeal to the Second Circuit, but it would be a steep uphill climb to get the suspension implemented for Week One.

Third, Judge Berman can rule for the NFL but enter an injunction allowing Brady to play pending appeal. This would be a potential mixed-bag outcome that could prompt the two sides to settle, since Brady likely would be available for all of 2015 while the appeals process unfolds in the Second Circuit.

Fourth, Judge Berman can send the case back to the arbitration process, vacating the suspension and requiring the NFL to give Brady a new appeal hearing that remedies procedural flaws by: (1) appointing a new hearing officer due to Commissioner Roger Goodell’s inherent bias and/or involvement in the case; (2) mandating that certain witnesses must be called to testify in order to make the process fair, including NFL general counsel Jeff Pash; and/or (3) requiring the NFL to make investgative information gathered by Ted Wells that was available to the league for the first appeal hearing also available to the NFLPA. Sending the case back for a second appeal hearing also could nudge the two sides toward a settlement.

Fifth, Judge Berman could try to impose a reduced suspension, splitting the penalty into two games for “general awareness” and two for failure to cooperate and enforcing one and scrapping the other. This would be unlikely since the NFL didn’t tie specific games to specific penalties, making it more of an all-or-nothing proposition. Still, it’s possible that Judge Berman will at least try to do it.

There could be other possibilities, but those are the primary potential choices. The selection could go from potential to actual as soon as Tuesday, nine days before the Patriots host the Steelers to start the 2015 season.

171 responses to “Judge Berman has several options for Brady ruling

  1. The only reasonable course is to vacate the suspension and vacate Article 46 until such time as a competent commissioner is appointed by the NFL.

  2. Regardless of the outcome, the NFL can never walk back the arrogance they entered the room with. What a shame. Fantastic game being run by a dictator. I don’t care if it was agreed to by the NFLPA or not, this process doesn’t pass the smell test. Plain and simple.

  3. I am generally aware of all of the possibilities.

    While independent arbitrator Roger Goodell seeks more power for the NFL has he ever been generally aware of the truth or evidence.

  4. I can only hope that the decision comes out today. Just to have this issue go away. This has gone on way too long, and a ruling for Brady will pull it out of the current media and limit it to the occasional snippet as the appeal goes through on the NFL’S appeal. A ruling for the NFL means we will be bombarded with Brady appeal items as there are emergency petitions for injunctions and so forth. A remand back for new arbitration will similarly fill the media for the next several months and could still result in a court filing.

    I, regardless of my personal feelings over the entire situation, just have become fed up with the entire process and want it to go away. If that means a win for Brady, so be it. However, I definitely understand that my feelings on it matter little.

    I guess pro-patriots and anti-patriots will be checking the Internet on the hour from now until the ruling is issued… while the rest of the football fans will simply wait and hope for the end of this mess so we can read about actual football.

    At least in the interim, I can simply enjoy laughing at the dueling comments from the various “I am not a lawyer, but I stayed at a Holiday Express” comments, as well as several self-proclaimed lawyers weighing in, and a few actual lawyers putting out well written arguments on either side (though generally those are often similar to Florio’s pieces on the subject).

  5. No winners here. A legend is clearly affected and thus far anyway appears to be totally out of synch on the field. A commish clearly on an ego trip has not only drug Brady and the Pats thru the mud he has managed to make the NFL a joke. He has never once indicated that he understands the fragile balance that exists between a public that reveres the game and a public that finds his ego to be larger than the game itself. Why could he not from day one put a stop to this madness by addressing the lack of consistency in handling game balls, the subsequent implementation of a new procedure and move on allowing the fans to enjoy the game. He just couldn’t do it; for to do so would mean he would have to lead by putting aside his ego and making the game the most important thing of all.

  6. That next to last paragraph is interesting, considering Adam Schefter reported the one thing for sure the judge can’t do is: “rule for a 1-3 game suspension”

  7. After spending virtually every minute of court time detailing reasons that this process was unfair and pointing out that that the NFL case was awful anyway, and also making it clear that he had the precedence he needed to overturn the suspension, how could he now possibly rule for the NFL? He’d be ruling against himself basically.

  8. To me, of those options, the 4 point makes the most sense.

    I think with the way he has questioned the NFL he doesn’t want to give them a slam dunk. I don’t think he can go option 2 bc that would mean he has to overrule the CBA which could cause alot of issues down the line; and the 3rd option would just drag this thing out even longer which I don’t think anyone (NFL, Brady, and the fans) wants.

  9. No matter what way the judge goes,this won’t be over for a very long time.Brady’s reputation has already been trashed and so has Goodell’s.

  10. My guess is he will go with #4. That seems to be the easiest way out for the Honorable Judge.

  11. “Word on-the-street” is: Judge Berman is a New York Jets fan. So, you all know what that means lol

  12. Instead of questioning NFL’s power to punish protected by Article 46, Judge Berman may question Goodell’s impartiality, qualifications and fairness as an self-appointed arbitrator, violating Section 10 of Federal Arbitration Act.
    It reads
    … an order vacating the award upon the application of any party to the arbitration—
    (1) where the award was procured by corruption, fraud, or undue means;
    (2) where there was evident partiality or corruption in the arbitrators, or either of them;
    (3) where the arbitrators were guilty of misconduct in refusing to postpone the hearing, upon sufficient cause shown, or in refusing to hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy; or of any other misbehavior by which the rights of any party have been prejudiced; or
    (4) where the arbitrators exceeded their powers, or so imperfectly executed them that a mutual, final, and definite award upon the subject matter submitted was not made

    Of course… this is all guessing on my part.

  13. Many innocent people have been arrested, charged, jailed and then found to be innocent. Not found not guilty, innocent. 100% innocent.

    That said there are those for reasons known only to themselves will continue to believe the first bell they hear.

    All that said, at this point those who have hated Brady since the tuck rule, since that’s where this all begins. C’mon man, you know it’s true. There’s not a single charge here that couldn’t be levied against any other team. Only difference is that the Patriots always seem to get the largest penalty. Strangely, no one can quantify the claims of serial cheaters except by virtue of repeating the phrase ad nauseum.

    Saying a thing over and over doesn’t make it true.

  14. marcuswelby1 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 7:00 AM

    My guess is he will go with #4. That seems to be the easiest way out for the Honorable Judge

    Canfor Brady but I hope that’s not the case. Anything but #4 please. This needs to end soon, one way or the other.

    My choice would be full open court. No back room deals, no closed doors. Everything out in the open. Let the chips fall where they may. I want to know what really happened, not what Ravens &Jets fans want to believe.

  15. The NFL’s actions have been downright unAmerican. Guess the entire league office got their management training in North Korea

  16. I have my doubts that Berman wants to determine an appropriate punishment instead either ruling in favor of the NFL or Brady. Whatever he does I hope the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals decides quickly that Berman acted appropriately and they won’t hear the case. Time for football not continuing drama.

  17. He will uphold the suspension of 4 games. The collective bargaining agreement gives the Commissioner final say on discipline . If it was overly excessive ( Lifetime Ban for example) the Judge might over rule the CBA. He will not in this case.

  18. .
    After all the Ray Rice controversy, the case was reheard by former federal judge, Barbara Jones. I don’t recall hearing many complaints about her performance.

    No matter what side you come down on, all should agree that the process was extremely flawed. From the ” gang who couldn’t weigh straight ” to the botched Wells Report to the recent NFL expansion of charges from deflated footballs to Brady’s involvement in a Rico style scheme involving memorabilia, the whole affair has become ” Operation Farce”.
    .
    .

  19. Berman’s ruling won’t matter either way. There’s nothing that would convince those who believe Goodell/wells. Same goes for the other side. Only difference, a federal judge straight up told the league their case was a joke.

  20. With the exception of Michael silver, all commisioners have been universally hated by every fan, ever. And silver just needs another year or two before people start hating him. Goodell isn’t going anywhere as long as the money is there, and the money is definitely there. So everyone, get used to it. Sorry.

  21. Yup. I agree with the #4 option being the most likely. Anything else is subject to an appeal (and being over ruled) in a higher court, which no judge wants to happen. That was the big reason that he wanted a settlement so much. Settlements are never over-ruled.

    However, once this goes to arbitration, it is very hard to conceive of an impartial third party that could or would ever uphold the league’s punishment. They have already admitted openly in court that they have no evidence that anything ever happened.

  22. Whatever decision is made, it seems clear that Goodell has earned a well-deserved come uppance, even if the court ultimately rules to uphold the Commissioner’s technical right to act as he did. The process has been so lacking in fundamental fairness and common sense that this will be a net loss for the NFL and for Goodell in particular.

  23. Why is it consistently held that goodell is acting as though he is above the game? I still can’t comprehend how any reasonable person can read those text messages, taking into account the destruction of the cell phone, and conclude that their is no doubt that Brady did no wrong. I realize this is a hard pill to swallow, but if anything, it seems far more likely that Brady has acted as though he is above the game. And where is the outrage for this? He’s somehow morphed into the victim here. If you’re truly a football fan, then the act and premeditation inherent in this scheme should make you look at Brady in a different light. That’s herder for some than others. But, if Brady truly was involved (and very convincing evidence says he was), then what has the commissioner done that has been so aggregious. I think we are watching a situation in which where one can not argue against the facts, they argue against the process as a last resort. And that’s a shame. This feels more and more like we’re watching that sad story in which one misstep is made exponentially worse by each lie or action intended to cover up the previous misgiving. That feeling will eat someone up inside. I bet Brady wishes he could take it all back.

  24. complete exoneration

    and a full beatdown of the NFL’s flawed processes

    suspension vacated, with one reason being for lack of notice, which cannot be remedied and thus re-arbitration would not be possible.

  25. The Patriot Hater daily Oath of Patriot Hate Affirmation

    “It doesn’t mater the outcome because the Pats are cheaters no matter what because we need it to be that way so we can accept the inferior teams for which we root and tell our kids that the New England Patriots won so much because the were Cheatas!!!.
    How we arrive at this belief is immaterial, inconsequential and free of flaws.
    We outside of New England blindly accept Roger Goodell and the NFL Offices as beyond reproach and omnipotent in all areas of adjudication when it supports besmirching and penalizing the New England Patriots. We readily accept any and all rumors, innuendo, false media reports and the like as Gospel when they negatively portray Robert Kraft, Bill B e l a c heet and Tammy Brady. We seek no objectivity or signs of fair trial and /or process and pledge to band together in witch hunt style to strike down any neutral and/or Patriots defenders with severe malice, ridicule and scorn. We chastise the “Homers” and dismiss any evidence contrary to our credo.
    In the name of Roger, the NFL Offices and the other 31, Amen. ”

    Word

  26. I love the arm chair legal experts, weighing in with their opinion about laws, during their 15 minute break from the deep fryer.

    There are a number of things about this process that weren’t fair. The judge called the NFL on it in open court. The NFL openly admitted, one could argue they bragged, that the process was not neutral, or independent. That is one of the reasons the appeal decision could be over turned. Aside from the fact that Goodells decision was based on testimony that didn’t exist. Let that part sink in for a second. Goodell cited Brady’s testimony in his decision, but the testimony in the decision didn’t exist. I am not a legal expert, and I don’t pretend to be. And I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night. But anyone who thinks this was a fair process, definitely shouldn’t be breeding. It is inexcusable for the commissioner to lie in his ruling, citing testimony that didn’t exist, and then requesting it all be sealed, all the while talking about integrity.

    If Brady is guilty, shame on the NFL, because they screwed this up in a major way. I just cant wait for when this happens to your team. For example, Dolphins fans have been pretty vocal in support of Goodell (for obvious reasons, Brady has pwned them for 15 years, save for the game the Dolphins cheated, you know, tapegate). I cant wait until week 8 rolls around, and Suh is suspended for shaking it 3 times in the bathroom, because he is generally aware that it is generally accepted that more than 2 shakes means you are playing… Joking aside, lets face reality, if the NFL wins this appeal, it will mean that Goodell literally has endless power. Under the umbrella of “generally aware”, he can suspend players for any amount of time he wants, even if the CBA says he cant.

    Right now he is suspending Brady for something that has never warranted a suspension, and precedent was only a fine. In other words, Goodell doesn’t even need you to violate a written rule. There is no written rule that says that players are prohibited from peeing in the shower, but the way we are headed, someone is gonna get a 4 game suspension for “more probably than not, being generally aware” that someone peed in the shower. They don’t need evidence of the urine, they just need to have an idea that someone at some point peed in that shower…

  27. Can someone please explain to me why everything has to become so complicated.

    1. Can the the ball boys who were fired by the New England Patriots be subpoenaed under oath by the judge and just asked them if Brady told them to deflate the footballs. Perjury charges if proven they are lying.

    2. If Hillary Clinton didn’t keep classified and top secrete emails on her server, in what manner was she able to see classified and secret material then when she was Secretary of State ? What computer did she use?

    Simple questions !!!

  28. Can someone please explain to me why everything has to become so complicated.

    1. Can the the ball boys who were fired by the New England Patriots be subpoenaed under oath by the judge and just asked them if Brady told them to deflate the footballs. Perjury charges if proven they are lying.

    2. If Hillary Clinton didn’t keep classified and top secret emails on her server, in what manner was she able to view classified and secret material then when she was Secretary of State ? What computer did she use?

    Simple questions !!!

  29. I suspect that after the NFL wins this case, they’ll turn their concentration to PFT’s bias and put the squeeze on Sunday Night Football.

  30. Roger Goodell will never allow the NFL to settle as long as he is commissioner. Goodell epitomizes narcissism. He hates Brady, with a passion. Probably even more than he hates the memory of Richard Nixon, who railroaded his father’s chances of being elected a Republican Senator. Brady stands for everything that Goodell can never, ever be. Goodell will never be a player in the NFL, he will never be an MVP recipient, he will never be a SuperBowl winner, he will never be a SuperBowl MVP recipient, he will never be elected to the Hall of Fame, either as a player and now, not even for being important to the NFL, he will never be revered as one of the best players to ever play the game. He can’t and won’t ever be any of those things. That’s what irks Goodell and has driven him to this state of borderline insanity. It has nothing to do with doing the bidding of the owners. It is his own doing. Time to go Roger. Way past time to go.

  31. rootpain – thank you. I truly hope you think like this. I’m glad someone is putting all the relevant and meaningful arguments out on the table. Although – I somehow feel like you just described everything you feel like you’ve lost with Brady’s guilt.i know it has to hurt. But you must make a choice. Do you value being a rationale person or holding onto false pride? It’s a difficult spot indeed. So much of your own well being is tied into tha patriots that it makes this a difficult choice. As a fan, I feel for you.

  32. richl77 says “Can the the ball boys who were fired by the New England Patriots be subpoenaed under oath by the judge and just asked them if Brady told them to deflate the footballs. Perjury charges if proven they are lying.”


    nice question and a simple answer

    No, the ball boys that the NFL ordered the Patriots to fire, with the further stipulation that they could NEVER be reinstated without NFL approval, cannot be called by the judge.

    Why? Because they were not witnesses in the appeal process, which this trial is about.

    Why were they not witnesses at appeal? Because after 5 interrogations of each guy, one of 7 hours for each by Wells and his gang of professional interrogators, they said NOTHING that was helpful to the NFL’s case. Their stories were apparently consistent with their claims of innocence.

  33. chuckdizzlewhut says:
    Sep 1, 2015 8:02 AM

    I still can’t comprehend how any reasonable person can read those text messages, taking into account the destruction of the cell phone, and conclude that their is no doubt that Brady did no wrong.
    _________________________________________

    I don’t believe many people, even Pats’ loyalists, are free of doubts. Those with open minds (fans and haters alike) will always approach any question with at least a bit of skepticism. The exception is those with AFS … Arthur Fonzarelli Sysdrome. Those afflicted by this dread malady never harbor doubts. As a result, they are unable to utter the words, “I was wrong.”

    There is no doubt that the text messages and cell phone destruction you cite are suspicious. However, suspicions are just that … suspicions. They are not evidence, and they do not prove guilt. Reasonable people understand the difference between suspicion and guilt, and demand actual evidence before punishing a person … even one they dislike.

  34. Harrison pointed out he voted against the CBA that ended the 2011 lockout. The Steelers were widely reported as the only team whose players collectively did so. Just remember this when the ruling comes out.

  35. The Patriots organization suspended the 2 equipment people without pay indefinitely of their own volition. They were not ordered to. They did this as a CYA move – because they are still technically employees (even if suspended without pay), any Non-Disclosure Agreements they signed are still binding – which means they can’t go to any media with their side of the story, thus protecting Brady and the team.

    What did happen is that, when the Pats informed the NFL of their actions, the NFL told the Patriots organization that they would like final approval on whether the 2 would be reinstated. This part of the story has been twisted to the point that the gullible believe that the NFL is responsible for their suspension.

  36. Door #1 please.

    Thanks.

    (Oh…and with more time on his hands Tom will be able to keep up with Gisele’s “Honey-Do” list (that includes cleaning the toilets, even though they have housekeepers who clean other parts of the house). Now that’s what I call poetic justice.)

  37. This is like when I’m watching a doubleheader and my team is on the late game and the early game is going into OT. At that point I don’t care who the hell wins, I just want the game to over.

  38. The text messages are evidence. While they might not include a video of tom asking the clowns to alter the balls, a reasonable, unbiased observer can reasonably infer what occurred. And it’s as simple as that. Tom’s actions after the fact didn’t help either. Let’s not forget the press conference. Again – use common sense. It’s not tied down by the legal system. You are a good judge of character. What did the tone anybody language of that press conference tell you? And then the destruction of the cell phone? Use common sense. It’s a wonderful thing and not tied down by the legal procedure. This whole farce has morphed from a small cheating situation (albeit still cheating) into a clear abuse of our legal system. I’m trying to figure out which one I care more about. My mind tells me I should be more concerned about the legal waste, but my heart tells me football. Can anyone here relate to their heart getting in the way of their mind?? Anyone? I suspect a few…

  39. This was a pretty good write-up but the one thing that Florio did not mention was the fact that as part of the decision he will release a written document. That allows him to split the issue in an even finer manner.

    Could he rule for the NFL based on existing law and then in his written decision absolutely ream Goodell and his cronies as a corrupt and incompetent bunch of fools? Could he rule for Brady recognizing the issues of fairness in the hearing, but also state that he believed that Brady took part in the deflation of the balls? Could his opinion be so very scathing that the loosing party decides not to appeal?

    For what is in theory supposed to be a yes/no decision from the judge there are a surprising number of possible outcomes.

    My guess – either he makes them re-do the appeal with an impartial arbiter or he upholds the suspension on legal grounds but blasts the NFL. I’m leaning towards the latter – if he was going to have the appeal re-done I imagine that he would have announced it after the 8/23 hearing and conference showed such an impasse.

  40. chuckdizzlewhut says:
    Sep 1, 2015 8:29 AM
    rootpain – thank you. I truly hope you think like this. I’m glad someone is putting all the relevant and meaningful arguments out on the table. Although – I somehow feel like you just described everything you feel like you’ve lost with Brady’s guilt.i know it has to hurt. But you must make a choice. Do you value being a rationale person or holding onto false pride? It’s a difficult spot indeed. So much of your own well being is tied into tha patriots that it makes this a difficult choice. As a fan, I feel for you.
    _______________________________________
    Ah chuckdizzlewhut,
    Aren’t words wonderful. They can be combined and spun into such fantasies, beguiling all who allow themselves to be beguiled. So well spun chucketc, well spun.
    But alas, Brady wins today. Not because Goodell is a narcissist (and he is). But because he is innocent of what he was charged with. All I wrote about Brady’s deserved legacy stands, unassailable by Goodell or others. All I wrote about Goodell simply provides a plausible explanation of the length Goodell has gone ( as already chastised by several well respected judges) to tarnish the reputation of a superior athlete.
    As for you chucketc, I don’t know anything about you except that you are a good wordsmith. Keep spinning, my friend. Our society needs more art.

  41. Can someone please explain to me why everything has to become so complicated.

    1. Can the the ball boys who were fired by the New England Patriots be subpoenaed under oath by the judge and just asked them if Brady told them to deflate the footballs. Perjury charges if proven they are lying.

    2. If Hillary Clinton didn’t keep classified and top secrete emails on her server, in what manner was she able to see classified and secret material then when she was Secretary of State ? What computer did she use?

    Simple questions !!!
    _______________________
    Subpoenaing the ball boys is a pointless exercise. They’ve already denied any allegations of wrongdoing back at the very beginning of the Wells report. And after 8 months of science, cell phones, and court, nothing substantial has been found to show they were lying. Putting them under oath and watching them re-proclaim their innocence would do nothing more than see the pro-Pats people declare it as proof of innocence and the anti-Pats people scream liar and demand they be brought up on perjury charges. What would that serve?

  42. RegisHawk says:
    Sep 1, 2015 8:46 AM

    The Patriots organization suspended the 2 equipment people without pay indefinitely of their own volition. They were not ordered to. They did this as a CYA move …

    There have been conflicting reports on this, as to who ordered who to do what, but I think those disagreements were just parsing of words. Regardless, when the initial Wells report came out – before it was picked apart – the Patriots did the prudent thing and suspended the Dorito Dinks – whether the NFL told them to or not, it made sense. If the NFL didn’t, I would bet anything they were going to.

    The important thing is that they are NOT fired, and the NFL specifically said they have the sole power to authorize their reinstatement, so the end result is the same as the NFL suspending them, not the Patriots.

  43. “Judge Berman has several options for Brady ruling”.

    Not according to Munson, Goodell or the NFL. According to them, Berman is just another of Goodell’s lackies who must fall in line like all the rest.

  44. Seahawks fan here.

    All I gotta say is this is just completely ridiculous. It has dragged on too long. This crybaby crap from all sides is too distracting.

    I don’t really care what the outcome is honestly. Put it to rest and lets get back to what’s important; FOOTBALL!

  45. Here’s the thing, your Team is next! LMAO!!!
    Your favorite players are next. Your HC, hell even your Ball Boys…
    Laugh it up at Patriot Fans expense, believe me we have grown accustomed to this non-sense…
    Since Spygate,(another non-story) the 31 have been relentless. Hey whatever, let it fly. The asterisks, the cheaters moniker.. Go for it enjoy!
    When it happens to your Team, you’ll feel a lot different… Then Patriot Nation will get some measure of payback!
    What does it say about this League when your competitors can’t beat you on the field and whip up a false charge? The NFL wasn’t ready, no policy in place, not even a coherent arguement. Goodell is God and the rest of you are mushrooms in the dark..

  46. “The text messages are evidence. While they might not include a video of tom asking the clowns to alter the balls, a reasonable, unbiased observer can reasonably infer what occurred. And it’s as simple as that. Tom’s actions after the fact didn’t help either. Let’s not forget the press conference. Again – use common sense. It’s not tied down by the legal system. You are a good judge of character. What did the tone anybody language of that press conference tell you? And then the destruction of the cell phone? Use common sense. It’s a wonderful thing and not tied down by the legal procedure. This whole farce has morphed from a small cheating situation (albeit still cheating) into a clear abuse of our legal system. I’m trying to figure out which one I care more about. My mind tells me I should be more concerned about the legal waste, but my heart tells me football. Can anyone here relate to their heart getting in the way of their mind?? Anyone? I suspect a few…”

    Hmm where to start?

    You’re talking about random, idiotic, text messages from May 2014. How about the texts after the Jets game? The texts where Jastremski tells his wife they are supposed to be at 13. How about the fact that Brady gave them a printed out copy of the PSI rules to bring to the refs? Yes, common sense says no one involved in some crazy scheme to let .4 PSI of air out footballs would bring attention to said scheme.

    On to your next point. The initial report was that the balls were 2PSI underinflated. Considering we now know that was false, common sense says Brady was as confused as everyone else at that point.

    Next point. Wells told Brady they didn’t need the phone, and also stated on the record he was “totally cooperative”. Brady also handed over the metadata from his phone. Goodell couldn’t be bothered to look into the 28 numbers which were possibly affiliated with this situation.

    Not to mention the “science” of the Wells report has been completely eviscerated by several people and/or organizations. And that’s all that really matters. If the balls weren’t tampered with, then everything else is irrelevant.

    Lastly, the only people to have been caught out right lying in this ordeal have been Roger Goodell and the NFL.

  47. Absolute power corrupts absolutely…

    The NFL needs a better system of administration. There has to be a separation of power and a system of checks and balances that is designed to get at the truth, and then as such, administer punishment as needed or what is appropriate.

    Having what amounts to the regime of Louis XIV running the League does not work… (It can be argued that it lead directly to the French revolution…) and I think Goodell is too much of a moron to wield that kind of power.

    When Brady walks … it will vindicate the Patriots!!!
    Haters gonna ball!!!

  48. chuckdizzlewhut says:
    Sep 1, 2015 9:04 AM

    The text messages are evidence. While they might not include a video of tom asking the clowns to alter the balls, a reasonable, unbiased observer can reasonably infer what occurred. And it’s as simple as that. Tom’s actions after the fact didn’t help either. Let’s not forget the press conference.

    ————–

    Chuck, congratulations on being one of the few who believe Brady to be guilty without resorting to unintelligible hysterics. Truly.

    For me, a Patriots fan, the issue you must start with is the PSI level of the footballs themselves. Using the worst case for the Patriots – which the Wells report assumed – the PSI are still only off by 0.1 to 0.2 psi, with enough unknowns and assumptions to make up for that small “unexplained” difference.

    So my starting place is that there was no tampering; no air was released. After that, things actually make sense. Who knows what the “deflator” text refers to (it was from May of 2014, so unrelated to AFCCG at any rate). We know they did deflate footballs to 12.5 psi. Who knows where the dieting thing came from, it’s so weird maybe it’s true.

    Also, the press conference was a catastrophe, and probably contributed as much to the assumption of Brady’s guilt as Mort’s report. BUT it was also the result of the Mort Report (I don’t remember if the Pats had gotten the similarly erroneous letter from the league yet). The point is, Brady really had NO idea how the footballs got to “2 psi” under which is what the press was asking about, because we now know the balls never lost that much pressure. He was unprepared to answer questions he didn’t know the answers to, and the whole thing was a mistake. Frankly I think he was still treating it as a joke and was blindsided by the fierce nature of the coverage.

  49. Suoer bowl champs! All you haters? Super Bowl chumps!
    Eat your hearts out.
    Hoping Brady gets suspended so your loser team may have a chance?
    Pathetic.

  50. Option 4 is irritating, in that it forces the NFL to produce seventeen different kinds of evidence it leaned on — while completely ignoring all the efforts by Brady and the Patriots to conceal the evidence (e.g., Brady not producing his phone initially, the Patriots hiding McNally after the NFL started to get the goods on the “Deflator” (who the Patriots also lied about why McNally was known as the “deflator” (weight loss – LOL), Brady insisting his phone be destroyed under the patently absurd lie that he “always destroyed all of his brand new phones after just 4 months,” etc.).

  51. arcross12042004scorp15 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 7:20 AM
    He will uphold the suspension of 4 games. The collective bargaining agreement gives the Commissioner final say on discipline . If it was overly excessive ( Lifetime Ban for example) the Judge might over rule the CBA. He will not in this case.
    ________________________________________

    The CBA does give hime final say on discipline but it does not exempt him from the legal responsibilities of arbitration including that Goodel act as a fair and impartial arbiter.

    The failure to allow the NFLPA to question Pash and provide the NFLPA full access to the Wells notes are grounds enough to vacate and the suspension. However I think its far more likely that this gets kicked back for another appeal with a court appointed arbiter.

  52. “I recently discussed the case with a lawyer who made a point that resonated with me. The lawyer said the arbitration process under a collective bargaining agreement could be compared to signing a waiver at an amusement park. A patron might sign a waiver upon entering the park or a ride, but if the park is proven to be negligent, the terms of the waiver lose their meaning.”

    –ESPN Boston reporter Mike Reiss

  53. .
    @regishawk

    It appears that Seattle only manufactures two things : lies and excuses

    Troy Vincent requested ( in writing) that the Patriots suspend McNally and Jastremski with the stipulation that they not be reinstated without the approval of Vincent. This occurred one week prior to the release of the Wells Report. Next time try a phone plan that has Google on it.

    And enough with your Super Bowl losing excuses. You lost, period. Get over it! The record for the loudest whining is clearly owned by Seahawks fans I’m inclined to believe that if John Harbaugh ever became Seattle coach, the end of days would be near.
    .

  54. This will be over soon, the need for offseason drama ends next week, once the season starts. NFL may lose in court, but since this kept eyes glued to TV and screens, and ears glued to radios, the NFL will laugh all the way to the bank. I honestly think that was the plan all along. The season never ends.

  55. I’m going with option #2. Most QB’s in the NFL like their footballs a certain way,but because that big baby Harbaugh couldn”t accept losing,he made a few phone calls and set this whole thing in motion. Vacate the suspension and let’s get on with playing football.

  56. chuckdizzlewhut says:
    Sep 1, 2015 8:02 AM

    I still can’t comprehend how any reasonable person can read those text messages, taking into account the destruction of the cell phone, and conclude that their is no doubt that Brady did no wrong.
    _________________________________________

    I don’t believe many people, even Pats’ loyalists, are free of doubts. Those with open minds (fans and haters alike) will always approach any question with at least a bit of skepticism. The exception is those with AFS … Arthur Fonzarelli Sysdrome. Those afflicted by this dread malady never harbor doubts. As a result, they are unable to utter the words, “I was wrong.”

    There is no doubt that the text messages and cell phone destruction you cite are suspicious. However, suspicions are just that … suspicions. They are not evidence, and they do not prove guilt. Reasonable people understand the difference between suspicion and guilt, and demand actual evidence before punishing a person … even one they dislike.

    ————————————————————

    Reasonable people do know the difference. They might think they also know the difference in the burden of proof in a court of law.

    What they are ignorant to is the burden of proof in this case. Ted Wells’ burden of proof was to present a case that showed that ‘more probable that not’ Brady was aware of the scheme. That is what he was asked to show in his independent investigation.

    That’s it. More Probable Than Not, not beyond a shadow of a doubt, that does not apply.

  57. Just rule already! Enough! Make a ruling, go thru the predictable crap storm the losing side will create and let’s try and get football back to where it belongs……….ON THE FIELD!!! This isn’t borderline crazy, it’s certifiably insane that this whole debacle has consumed the NFL and it’s fans for 7 long, miserable months. Just do it Berman!

  58. musicfootballprogramming says:
    Sep 1, 2015 9:29 AM

    Who knows what the “deflator” text refers to (it was from May of 2014, so unrelated to AFCCG at any rate). We know they did deflate footballs to 12.5 psi. Who knows where the dieting thing came from, it’s so weird maybe it’s true.
    ________________________________________

    I couldn’t agree more that’s the “deflator” is so weird it may well be true.

    I think it would be hard to make up an explanation for deflator that is less believable that the one given. So why put an explanation out for public consumption that makes so little sense, when almost anyone could easily make up a more credible story? One simple answer is (drum roll, please) because it just happens to be the truth.

  59. One of the questions that Wells wanted to ask of McNally has still been unasked since The Patriots legal team prevented Wells from talking to McNally.

    McNally, after he had called himself the Deflator typed this response to Jastremski – ‘not going to ESPN … yet’

    What was McNally referring to?

  60. I read that the NFL is afraid that everyone who is suspended will go to the courts if Brady wins.

    Best response I saw: “How about you don’t issue arbitrary, insane punishments in the first place?”

  61. After closely following all of the evidence made available, including reading the full text of the arbitration hearing, I’ve come to the conclusion that IMO Tom Brady is 100% innocent. I am a lifelong Atlanta Falcons fan, so I don’t really have any bias in the case, but if you look at the full picture of all of the information, it is actually fairly obvious what happened.

    In 2014 the Patriots played the game against the Jets where the officials for some odd reason pumped the balls up to 16 PSI and Tom Brady, in his own words, was “pissed” at John Jastremski. The message he gave him in so many words was “Don’t you ever f****** give me footballs like this again”. They then decided to set the footballs at or around the minimum required pressure of 12.5 PSI.

    Being aware that the officials might get a slightly different reading that the Pats when checking the footballs and that the refs now had a history of indiscriminately and sloppily adding air to the footballs, John Jastremski, to insure that he didn’t piss off his boss again, told Jim McNally to insure that any air added by the officials after Tom had approved them was removed.

    As for whether or not Jim McNally actually removed any air on the night of the AFC Championship game, I think it is highly debatable.

    But as to the topic of whether or not Tom Brady is guilty of wrong doing, it is irrelevant. Tom Brady has told the same story from the beginning with consistency that he has never instructed anyone to deflate a football below the league minimum standard, and the NFL has provided ZERO evidence to the contrary.

    If you review all of the evidence available, I think anyone would agree that the scenario as I have laid it out is the only story that makes sense.

    Regardless of how this turns out today, Brady has been the victim of a ridiculous witchunt.

  62. “Is Tom Brady a cheater?” “I don’t think so”. That question and answer along with Tom’s look of fear in his eyes set the tone along with the now known to be false report that 11 of 12 were 2 pounds under. Tom knew one thing at the time he answered that. That somehow 11 balls were 2 pounds below the limit and he had no idea why. Tom, I believe, feels that if indeed the balls were 2 pounds under he would have been using illegal balls and that he felt that would be wrong. The “I don’t think so?” was a question as much as an answer. Knowing what we know now that question, are you a cheater, would have never been asked because quite frankly the actual numbers proved there was no deflating beyond natural occurrence. It’s simply unfair to use Tom’s reaction to that question as a basis for proof of his guilt. If anything it proved that if it had turned out the 2 pound under lie was true Tom would have been practically admitting that indeed he had cheated in that game. He had been set up by the league to appear guilty and he did. Mission accomplished by the weasels in the NFL offices.

  63. guadalahonky says:
    Sep 1, 2015 9:59 AM

    One of the questions that Wells wanted to ask of McNally has still been unasked since The Patriots legal team prevented Wells from talking to McNally.

    McNally, after he had called himself the Deflator typed this response to Jastremski – ‘not going to ESPN … yet’

    What was McNally referring to?

    We don’t know, and I’m mildly curious myself. What Wells failed to mention was that they already had those texts in their possession when they questioned McNally. They just suck at their jobs and hadn’t gone through the text messages yet, apparently, even though they were questioning one of the texters.

    Man, $5,000,000 just doesn’t buy what it used to.

    Still, I’ll say it again, the footballs were not deflated, so there’s no reason to think he was talking about deflating footballs.

    Hell, for all we know he was talking about something far more interesting. Let’s assume it was about Brady’s son really being a mini Dorito Dink. Call The Enquirer!

  64. “One of the questions that Wells wanted to ask of McNally has still been unasked since The Patriots legal team prevented Wells from talking to McNally.”

    Incorrect. The Patriots told Wells that McNally could be re-interviewed over the phone. Wells declined. Wells is regarded as one of the best lawyers in the country and spent hours upon hours interviewing both of those guys and couldn’t get a confession out of them. Not a single piece of their testimony was included in the Wells Report.

  65. peyton42 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 10:06 AM

    After closely following all of the evidence made available, including reading the full text of the arbitration hearing, I’ve come to the conclusion that IMO Tom Brady is 100% innocent. I am a lifelong Atlanta Falcons fan, so I don’t really have any bias in the case, but if you look at the full picture of all of the information, it is actually fairly obvious what happened.

    In 2014 the Patriots played the game against the Jets where the officials for some odd reason pumped the balls up to 16 PSI and Tom Brady, in his own words, was “pissed” at John Jastremski. The message he gave him in so many words was “Don’t you ever f****** give me footballs like this again”. They then decided to set the footballs at or around the minimum required pressure of 12.5 PSI.

    Being aware that the officials might get a slightly different reading that the Pats when checking the footballs and that the refs now had a history of indiscriminately and sloppily adding air to the footballs, John Jastremski, to insure that he didn’t piss off his boss again, told Jim McNally to insure that any air added by the officials after Tom had approved them was removed.

    As for whether or not Jim McNally actually removed any air on the night of the AFC Championship game, I think it is highly debatable.

    But as to the topic of whether or not Tom Brady is guilty of wrong doing, it is irrelevant. Tom Brady has told the same story from the beginning with consistency that he has never instructed anyone to deflate a football below the league minimum standard, and the NFL has provided ZERO evidence to the contrary.

    If you review all of the evidence available, I think anyone would agree that the scenario as I have laid it out is the only story that makes sense.

    Regardless of how this turns out today, Brady has been the victim of a ridiculous witchunt.

    ———————————————————
    Then please answer one question for me.

    McNally responded to a text message after he had called himself the Deflator typed this response to Jastremski – ‘not going to ESPN … yet’

    What was McNally referring to?

  66. comingfromthevacuum says:
    Sep 1, 2015 10:14 AM

    “One of the questions that Wells wanted to ask of McNally has still been unasked since The Patriots legal team prevented Wells from talking to McNally.”

    Incorrect. The Patriots told Wells that McNally could be re-interviewed over the phone. Wells declined. Wells is regarded as one of the best lawyers in the country and spent hours upon hours interviewing both of those guys and couldn’t get a confession out of them. Not a single piece of their testimony was included in the Wells Report.
    ————————————————————
    This is verbatim from Ted Well’s transcript on his conference call to the media.

    ‘I had not found that text at the time of the first interview. I had wanted to confront him (McNally) with that. I asked for a second interview. I said I would go to New Hampshire. I would interview him in the morning, afternoon, night … I didn’t care. I would make myself available whenever he was free. And not only did they say I couldn’t interview him, they said they said they would not even tell him about my request for an interview.I had not found that text at the time of the first interview. I had wanted to confront him with that. I asked for a second interview. I said I would go to New Hampshire. I would interview him in the morning, afternoon, night … I didn’t care. I would make myself available whenever he was free. And not only did they say I couldn’t interview him, they said they said they would not even tell him about my request for an interview.’

  67. ybthatway says:
    Aug 31, 2015 10:21 PM
    Again, it does not matter what the CBA says. The league cannot, I repeat, CANNOT dole out any punishment that they see fit without it being overturned in a court of law.

    AGAIN, the CBA does not give the Commish the right be unfair and thats exactly why the NFL will lose this.
    —————————————

    Your first sentence makes no sense. The NFL CAN dole out any punishment they see fit. The player can then take the NFL to court if they disagree.

    “The CBA does not give the Commish the right to be unfair”…that sounds like an astute legal stance…..
    ________________________________________

    He may not have phrased it eloquently, but he is right. The CBA does not give the Commissioner the freedom to disregard his legal obligations as an arbiter. Among those is ensuring that the appeal process is conducted fairly and with impartiality.

  68. guadalahonky says:
    Sep 1, 2015 9:50 AM

    Reasonable people do know the difference. They might think they also know the difference in the burden of proof in a court of law.

    What they are ignorant to is the burden of proof in this case. Ted Wells’ burden of proof was to present a case that showed that ‘more probable that not’ Brady was aware of the scheme. That is what he was asked to show in his independent investigation.

    That’s it. More Probable Than Not, not beyond a shadow of a doubt, that does not apply.
    _______________________________________

    You are absolutely correct. Finding Brady guilty did not require that the case be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It was only necessary to prove that it was more probable than not.

    The key word is prove. While civil trials are not the same as criminal tries, both have one thing in common. The plaintiff has the burden of proof, and proof is what is clearly absent from Ted Wells’ multi-million dollar report.

    The problem with the deflategate case is not that there isn’t sufficient proof, the problem is that there is no proof … just suspicion and conjecture.

  69. I’m not sure what those goofballs were talking about in their joking text messages last summer, but it has no relevance to January 18, 2015

    and

    it certainly doesn’t indicate any ongoing, systematic deflation “scheme” since it is also quite clear that five months later, during the Jets game, the footballs were overinflated by the refs and were not at 13 psi, where the ball boys said “they were supposed to be”

  70. This is a slam dunk for Brady. Per the Wells report using the worst possible assumptions with the non-logo gauge the Patriots on average were 11.11 PSI versus and expected range of 11.32 to 11.52. No dampness was factored in even though it was raining all game. That is a .2 total difference and it most likely is due to natural causes. There is no human on the planet that could tell a ball that is .2 difference in PSI. Put them side by side it is a coin flip only. So this is what it all comes down to: The Patriots scheme to secretly deflate footballs to a level consistent to where they would be without deflation?

    Case closed – If they did not deflate you must vacate.

  71. “Then please answer one question for me.

    McNally responded to a text message after he had called himself the Deflator typed this response to Jastremski – ‘not going to ESPN … yet’

    What was McNally referring to?”

    No problem, easy answer. He was referring to the fact that his boss had instructed him to remove air that the officials added after Tom had approved the balls. Teams aren’t supposed to do that.

    My argument isn’t that the Pats did nothing wrong. I think they probably on occassion broke the rule that says they aren’t supposed to tamper with the balls after the officials approved them.

    I just think it is obvious that John Jastremski was trying to keep his boss happy, and not that Tom Brady orchestrated the whole thing. The only message Tom Brady gave John was “These are the balls I am approving, I want them just like this”.

  72. Many innocent people have been arrested, charged, jailed and then found to be innocent. Not found not guilty, innocent. 100% innocent.

    That said there are those for reasons known only to themselves will continue to believe the first bell they hear.

    All that said, at this point those who have hated Brady since the tuck rule, since that’s where this all begins. C’mon man, you know it’s true. There’s not a single charge here that couldn’t be levied against any other team. Only difference is that the Patriots always seem to get the largest penalty. Strangely, no one can quantify the claims of serial cheaters except by virtue of repeating the phrase ad nauseum.

    Largest penalties?????
    Anyone else remember bounty gate and head coach Sean Payton getting suspended for a year for having NO knowledge of it.
    Keep looking at life through Patriot goggles.

    Saying a thing over and over doesn’t make it true

  73. letmefeelyourlove says:
    Sep 1, 2015 10:19 AM

    You are absolutely correct. Finding Brady guilty did not require that the case be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. It was only necessary to prove that it was more probable than not.

    The key word is prove. While civil trials are not the same as criminal tries, both have one thing in common. The plaintiff has the burden of proof, and proof is what is clearly absent from Ted Wells’ multi-million dollar report.

    The problem with the deflategate case is not that there isn’t sufficient proof, the problem is that there is no proof … just suspicion and conjecture.

    ————————————————————-
    Read Wells closing remarks, I think you’ll find them interesting.

    ‘I would say one thing. In my mind, the NFL, based on my view of the world, certainly wasn’t hoping that I would going to come back with a report that would find that something had been wrong with the Patriots or Tom Brady. They wanted me to get down to the bottom of the facts. All of this discussion that people in league office wanted to put some type of hit on the most iconic player of the league, the real face of the league, doesn’t make any sense. It’s really a ridiculous allegation.

    What drove the decision in this report, was one thing. It was the evidence. And I could not ethically ignore the import and relevancy of those text messages and the other evidence.

    I mean the notion that McNally is referring to himself as the deflator before the season starts and that he had not gone to ESPN yet, no one can ignore the implications of that text message and no one can see it as a joke. And nor is it circumstantial evidence. It is direct evidence and it is inculpatory.’

  74. peyton42 nailed it.

    the nfl’s problem is the rumors were true, there was evidence of tampering in *prior* game(s).

    however, the league put all their chips on AFCCG, botched the sting, came up empty, and went ahead with prosecution anyway.

    it was an illogical overreach from the start, driven by egos, jealousy and animosity — certainly not by science or objectively following evidence — and the league has bent itself into a pretzel trying to rationalize what they fumbled away that night.

    the league has shown the world how truly incompetent and petty its leadership is.

    hey mike kensil, better deposit your last few paychecks in the savings account, it could be a while before you get another

  75. peyton42 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 10:27 AM

    “Then please answer one question for me.

    McNally responded to a text message after he had called himself the Deflator typed this response to Jastremski – ‘not going to ESPN … yet’

    What was McNally referring to?”

    No problem, easy answer. He was referring to the fact that his boss had instructed him to remove air that the officials added after Tom had approved the balls. Teams aren’t supposed to do that.

    My argument isn’t that the Pats did nothing wrong. I think they probably on occassion broke the rule that says they aren’t supposed to tamper with the balls after the officials approved them.

    I just think it is obvious that John Jastremski was trying to keep his boss happy, and not that Tom Brady orchestrated the whole thing. The only message Tom Brady gave John was “These are the balls I am approving, I want them just like this”.

    ———————————————————-

    Thank you for an honest answer. But let’s examine your choice of words a little closer.

    Your choice of words ‘keep his boss happy’. In truth, he was demanding compensation in the form of autographed game worn gear and shoes, wasn’t he?

    So, Brady knew and he in turn was supplying McNally with shoes and other swag.

    Hence, Ted Wells made the following statement:

    ‘If I were sitting on a jury and the judge had charged the jury that it should apply the preponderance of the evidence standard, I would have checked the box that said, “Proven.” I believe the conclusions have been proven by the preponderance of the evidence standard.’

    I used the words “more probable than not” because that is what is in the rules, because I thought it was appropriate when people read my report to always make sure that they understood the burden of proof that I was following. I did not want someone to read my report if I just said, “proven,” and think perhaps I had used just a beyond a reasonable doubt standard. I think that would have been misleading.

  76. Give him one or two games. Recommend to the NFL owners that they amend by laws to reduce commish power and hint that they should find a new one.

    Either way Sweep the Knee…this is getting old!

  77. One for the thumb says:
    Sep 1, 2015 9:34 AM

    “I recently discussed the case with a lawyer who made a point that resonated with me. The lawyer said the arbitration process under a collective bargaining agreement could be compared to signing a waiver at an amusement park. A patron might sign a waiver upon entering the park or a ride, but if the park is proven to be negligent, the terms of the waiver lose their meaning.”

    –ESPN Boston reporter Mike Reiss
    __
    1. LOL @ Mike Reiss

    2. PROVING negligence is a lot different than claiming negligence.

  78. The dude is guilty he should not get a reduction in suspension ,this team Patriots must be punished for there actions
    Liars ,cheaters etc

  79. Key question for me which is probably not relevant – is Judge Berman a fan of the NFL, and if so, is he a fan of the Patriots? He can rule using logic any way he wants but I am betting if he has feeling one way or the other for that NFL team, he will figure out a way to rule in their favor. The opposite is true if he dislikes them. Considering his comments so far, in trying to get them to settle, he seems he does not want to be involved – but he is not getting any help on that issue.

  80. “So, Brady knew and he in turn was supplying McNally with shoes and other swag. ”

    No. McNally was asking John Jastremski for those things. Tom Brady signs countless peices of gear every day and doesn’t have any idea who any of them are for. Brady wasn’t supplying anybody with anything.

  81. Kev095 the concept of the team being guilty of wrongdoing and Brady being guilty of wrongdoing are two different concepts. The team has already paid $1 million and lost a 1st round draft pick for an infraction that would have cost most teams $25k at most.

    Tha Pats have already been punished. This is about Tom Brady. Separate issue.

  82. If I start a Roger Goodell piñata business, will I have to pay him royalties for using his name and likeness?

  83. peyton42 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 11:03 AM

    “So, Brady knew and he in turn was supplying McNally with shoes and other swag. ”

    No. McNally was asking John Jastremski for those things. Tom Brady signs countless peices of gear every day and doesn’t have any idea who any of them are for. Brady wasn’t supplying anybody with anything.
    ———————————————————–
    And there is where you and I differ. Brady is convinced of his plausible deniability by keeping Jastremski as his main contact person, and in turn, not claiming to not know McNally’s name. Did Brady claim that?

    ‘When interviewed, Brady claimed that, prior to the events surrounding the AFC Championship Game, he did not know McNally’s name or anything about McNally’s game-day responsibilities, including whether McNally had any responsibilities relating to game balls or the game officials.’

  84. Here’s the thing, your Team is next! LMAO!!!
    Your favorite players are next. Your HC, hell even your Ball Boys…
    Laugh it up at Patriot Fans expense, believe me we have grown accustomed to this non-sense…
    Since Spygate,(another non-story) the 31 have been relentless. Hey whatever, let it fly. The asterisks, the cheaters moniker.. Go for it enjoy!
    When it happens to your Team, you’ll feel a lot different… Then Patriot Nation will get some measure of payback!
    ——————————-
    So you have “grown accustomed” to having your team being investigated for Cheating….think about that…..

    I have no concerns about my “players,” “HC” or “ballboy,” being next because they don’t Cheat.

    See the difference?

  85. John Jastremski destroyed the credibility of Brady’s claim to not knowing McNally with the following text:

    Jastremski: Talked to him last night (Brady) He actually brought you up and said you must have alot of stress trying to get them done.

    How did Wells’ independent investigation intrepret those text messages?

    Ted Wells – ‘So I view that statement as Jastremski saying that Tom Brady brought up McNally to say McNally must have a lot of stress trying to get them done and Jastremski replies, “I told him it was.”

    So that is not circumstantial evidence. That is two of the participants in the scheme discussing what is taking place and that particular text Jastremski directly says Tom Brady brought up McNally and said, “You must have a lot of stress.”

    And I interpret that, and I believe it to the bottom of my heart, that that refers to the fact that there must be stress in getting the balls done.’

  86. Bring down the Ginger Hammer and his minions Judge Berman. He is a egomaniac and not a smart one of that who wields his power unwisely. Just blow up his article 46 powers and hopefully the Ginger Hammer might see the wisdom of modifying the process to include a third party arbiter on appeals.

  87. Yes, Brady did state that he didn’t know McNally’s name, and the league doesn’t have any evidence that he is being anything other than truthful either.

    The league has no good evidence that Tom Brady has been anything other than truthful at all times.

    Roger Goodell, however, has been caught by the entire world lying when he released his appeal ruling.

  88. Sorry but the CBA is the CBA and if both parties agreed to it, that’s what should applied here. I realize the Patriot’s fan loathe being called cheaters but if the shoe fits…..

  89. guadalahonky says:
    Sep 1, 2015 11:28 AM

    John Jastremski destroyed the credibility of Brady’s claim to not knowing McNally with the following text:

    Jastremski: Talked to him last night (Brady) He actually brought you up and said you must have alot of stress trying to get them done.

    How did Wells’ independent investigation intrepret those text messages?

    Ted Wells – ‘So I view that statement as Jastremski saying that Tom Brady brought up McNally to say McNally must have a lot of stress trying to get them done and Jastremski replies, “I told him it was.”

    So that is not circumstantial evidence. That is two of the participants in the scheme discussing what is taking place and that particular text Jastremski directly says Tom Brady brought up McNally and said, “You must have a lot of stress.”

    And I interpret that, and I believe it to the bottom of my heart, that that refers to the fact that there must be stress in getting the balls done.’

    ———

    That text does not say Brady asked about McNally. That is an assumption. In fact there are two assumptions made in both yours and Wells’ interpretationL

    1. That ‘him’ means Brady
    2. That ‘getting them done’ means deflating balls

    There is nothing concrete about your argument. I’m not saying those references couldn’t be about Brady and deflating balls, but they certainly don’t say that they are. It’s on speculation.

  90. hammmerr says:
    Sep 1, 2015 10:29 AM
    Many innocent people have been arrested, charged, jailed and then found to be innocent. Not found not guilty, innocent. 100% innocent.

    That said there are those for reasons known only to themselves will continue to believe the first bell they hear.

    All that said, at this point those who have hated Brady since the tuck rule, since that’s where this all begins. C’mon man, you know it’s true. There’s not a single charge here that couldn’t be levied against any other team. Only difference is that the Patriots always seem to get the largest penalty. Strangely, no one can quantify the claims of serial cheaters except by virtue of repeating the phrase ad nauseum.

    Largest penalties?????
    Anyone else remember bounty gate and head coach Sean Payton getting suspended for a year for having NO knowledge of it.
    Keep looking at life through Patriot goggles.

    Saying a thing over and over doesn’t make it true
    ————-
    Might want to check your own goggles. Your point about repetition should be directed at the Karnaks here who have decided what a few texts REALLY means. Seriously, you come back with that comment after reading all this for all these months while totally disregarding every lie along the way by the NFL offices?

    At the time of spygate was or was not teh fine against BB the largest ever? Is the suspension of the largest for a player based on accusations that are 100% conjecture?

  91. bassplucker says:
    Sep 1, 2015 8:54 AM

    This is like when I’m watching a doubleheader and my team is on the late game and the early game is going into OT. At that point I don’t care who the hell wins, I just want the game to over.
    —————————————————————-
    Love this.
    Me too.
    What really burns is when the early game is over and they cut to some ‘bonus coverage’ of a supposedly exciting finish between two teams that simply don’t matter and you finally get to your game when it’s 7-3 with 5:02 in the 1st.

  92. Jim McNally is a complete tool who wanted to feel very important. In order to get him to do his job, John Jastremski made him feel important by pretending that Tom Brady knew who he was.

    That’s my impression of the “He said you must have a lot of stress getting them done” text.

  93. 2. PROVING negligence is a lot different than claiming negligence.
    ===
    What a pointless statement…

    Proving deflating is a lot different than claiming deflating. Proving anything is a lot different than proving something.

  94. If there is true justice that wasnt bought by the NFL, Judge Berman will rule in favor of vacating Bradys full 4 game suspension and then rip Goodell, Pash, Nash and the NFL executive Committee a new one.

    First of all, how a scumbag like Wells thinks 2 equip mgrs running smack via text in May 2014 is evidence of cheating is laughable and appalling. The entire process was corrupt. Goodell has a vested interest, thus he is not impartial or fair or operated with any integrity. The NFLs blatant lies about everything they do is already leading to the NFL being out of business in 10-15 years. The truth and ethics will catch up to them. It already has

  95. Sorry but the CBA is the CBA and if both parties agreed to it, that’s what should applied here. I realize the Patriot’s fan loathe being called cheaters but if the shoe fits…..
    ===
    This case isn’t about the CBA. The CBA exists within the larger legal framework of Federal and state law. Again: Most of the NFLPA’s arguments are that the Goodell violated laws regulating arbiters and acted outside the CBA.

  96. “John Jastremski destroyed the credibility of Brady’s claim to not knowing McNally with the following text:”

    Brady denies ever referring to McNally. McNally and Jastremski both deny that that comment has anything to do with Brady or balls. They both told the same story about a third party and tickets. The third party to whom they referred was interviewed by the Patriots and described the content and timing of the conversation, which matched what both McNally and Jastremski said. They offered the witness to Wells, who wasn’t interested.

    In other words, that text message, which is the sole piece of evidence which can be even plausibly interpreted as tying Brady to any alleged tampering, had nothing to do with him, according to everyone involved, and does nothing to “destroy…Brady’s credibility” about anything.

    Wells wasn’t interested in the truth, and he wasn’t interested in any possible interpretations of anything that weren’t consonant with Brady’s guilt. Any time there were plausible interpretations consistent with guilt or innocence, he chose to assume guilt. He started with the assumption of guilt, and interpreted everything to support that assumption.

  97. So you have “grown accustomed” to having your team being investigated for Cheating….think about that…..
    I have no concerns about my “players,” “HC” or “ballboy,” being next because they don’t Cheat.
    See the difference?
    ——————————————–
    On Dec. 1 2014, the Vikings put their footballs in a dryer to warm them and keep them pliable on a very cold day. Then, after halftime, placed them next to sideline heater to keep them warm. Listed as a “minor equipment violation” under the same bylaw as the Patriots situation, it’s a $25K fine. For all of Goodell’s talk about the “integrity of the game,” how in god’s name is this only a $25K fine?
    In this instance, Goodell didn’t even bother fining Minnesota, he just told them to knock it off.
    See the difference?

  98. Even if Brady told the man to deflate the balls a little, it would be hard to prove he intended to deflate them below league standard.

    He could have just as easily said “don’t over inflate them.”

    I’m not a pats fan, but this smells of scapegoat.

    If they can prove intent to cheat, then he deserves the suspension. If, however, he just wanted them reduced to the minimum inflation allowed by the league, and the guy doing it screw up and doesn’t want to admit to it, then Brady should get off.

    At least, that’s how I look at it through unbiased eyes.

  99. and furthermore, referring to himself as the deflator before the season starts

    BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS!!!

    as Berman said, this is about the AGCCG, CASE DISMISSED

  100. whatjusthapped says:
    Sep 1, 2015 11:45 AM
    Sorry but the CBA is the CBA and if both parties agreed to it, that’s what should applied here. I realize the Patriot’s fan loathe being called cheaters but if the shoe fits…..

    ———-
    This sums it all up nicely. We don’t know or care if you did anything or not. We don’t feel the need to prove anything. You got screwed so just deal with it. Ha ha ha.

    No thanks.

  101. How’s this for a compromise,

    If the suspension holds and we are concerned with the integrity of the game and anyone but the Pats win the SB then we give them 75% of the Lombardi trophy.

    To be the best you have to beat the best. But I can understand why some folks would like their competition hamstrung. Asterisk indeed 🙂

  102. bostontdparty says:
    Sep 1, 2015 12:33 PM
    and furthermore, referring to himself as the deflator before the season starts

    BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS!!!

    as Berman said, this is about the AGCCG, CASE DISMISSED
    ——-
    Don’t you get that Haternation hates facts?

  103. I think Brady is completely innocent, but even if they had video of his standing on the sideline personally letting the air out of footballs, it still would be an offense worthy of MAYBE a $25,000 fine. That is the most absurd part of all this.

  104. so 3 balls were below the predicted range of the Ideal Gas Law. What about the 5 balls that were within the range and the 4 balls that were above the range?

    Don’t those balls carry any relevance? Why are they forgotten?

  105. Wow…5 options that allow Brady to play.

    These are the 5 as per Tom Brady’s lawyers. Now lets review the most likely…

    The Judge doesn’t have enough info, nor is he an expert on what constitutes fair play in the NFL. He can’t upend what the entire NFL agreed was fair prior to the Patriots being caught. Thus, he upholds the CBA as a binding agreement as it was agree to by all parties.

    Thus…Brady saved from having the ball boys testify that they actually cheated, gives up. He pleads with the Patriot fans (the only ones who believe him) that he fought the good fight, but doesn’t want to extend this any further to protect the team from further uncertainty. Thus, Brady is immortalized as a martyr with NE fans, and to everybody else he is just a common cheat.

  106. whatjusthapped says:
    Sep 1, 2015 11:45 AM
    Sorry but the CBA is the CBA and if both parties agreed to it, that’s what should applied here. I realize the Patriot’s fan loathe being called cheaters but if the shoe fits…..

    ____________________________________

    Sorry, but the CBA does not override Goodel’s responsibilities to be a fair and impartial arbiter.

  107. “Even if Brady told the man to deflate the balls a little, it would be hard to prove he intended to deflate them below league standard.

    He could have just as easily said “don’t over inflate them.”

    I’m not a pats fan, but this smells of scapegoat.”

    To understand this, you have to UNDERSTAND the process for the handling of the ball. Bill Bellichek conveniently left this out of all the investigation that he did.

    The balls are presented to the Refs. They certify that they are in spec. At that point, nobody is allowed to tamper with them. Thus, when Brady said, let a little air out…he means tamper with the balls post-inspection (thus the bathroom deflating). Brady isn’t just letting a little air out. He is conspiring with multiple Patriot employees to cheat a process.

  108. paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 12:57 PM

    so 3 balls were below the predicted range of the Ideal Gas Law. What about the 5 balls that were within the range and the 4 balls that were above the range?

    Don’t those balls carry any relevance? Why are they forgotten?

    ———————————————————–

    Not so much forgotten as it is overshadowed by the fact that McNally stole the ball bag out of the officials room, and headed down to the field with it and locked himself into a room. In his words, to use the urinal.

    Turns out, the room had no urinal, and the investigators caught McNally in a lie.

  109. Turns out, the room had no urinal, and the investigators caught McNally in a lie.
    ===
    About bathroom fixtures.

    That’s as relevant to the pressure of the balls at the AFCCG as texts from the previous spring.

  110. I have a question for Patriots fans. Let me start by saying I’m tired of this entire thing. It’s a joke that it’s gone this far and BOTH sides are to blame and should be ashamed of themselves. The question is, are you arguing that Brady did nothing wrong or are you simply arguing that there’s no “direct”/punishment too harsh/no impartial arbitrator? I can understand arguing the 2nd point. That’s just trying to poke holes in the process, which I think we can all agree has been one big mess. The issue I have is, how do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong? Given ALL of the evidence that you’ve read, how is it possible to think that SOMETHING was not happening AND Brady knew about it? I’m not talking in the legal sense either. I’m talking as a human being and using common sense. If you think nothing was going on then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

  111. To understand this, you have to UNDERSTAND the process for the handling of the ball. Bill Bellichek conveniently left this out of all the investigation that he did.
    ===
    That’s not what Wells says. Wells says he found no evidence of wrongdoing by BB or the NEP Head Equipment Manager. This is such an easy thing to find, that I cannot fathom why you are claiming that Wells left them out. He looked, but he found nothing.

  112. My argument isn’t that the Pats did nothing wrong. I think they probably on occassion broke the rule that says they aren’t supposed to tamper with the balls after the officials approved them.

    I just think it is obvious that John Jastremski was trying to keep his boss happy, and not that Tom Brady orchestrated the whole thing. The only message Tom Brady gave John was “These are the balls I am approving, I want them just like this”.
    _____________________

    I think this is probably accurate. But why not just admit it when first asked about it? Then we have none of this non-sense.

    So here’s what I think happened next, tell me if you can buy it.

    Brady was annoyed that anyone even asked about it. They are his balls. He wanted them his way. His arrogance caused him to be dismissive about it when first asked. When the questions kept coming, he was already on the record with the lie, so he pushed it. Of course this doesn’t warrant a four game suspension and the circus that has followed. But Pats fans and Brady should stop with the charade that Tommy is an innocent victim. The crime was a small deal. But he did it and lied about it.

    If your theory is correct, why couldn’t accept and admit his part in it and settle last week. Maybe he didnt orchestrate a systematic plan to cheat. But he instructed the guy to take the extra air out if/when the refs added more (which is a small infractoin, but still an infraction) and then he lied about it.

  113. jbreyare

    ow do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong? Given ALL of the evidence that you’ve read, how is it possible to think that SOMETHING was not happening AND Brady knew about it?

    ==================================

    is it wrong to have the balls prepared?

    NO

    is it wrong to set the pressure, prior to handing the balls to the ref, at the pressure you want as QB?

    NO

    was it wrong for the ball boy to take the balls into the bathroom?

    YES

    Is there proof the ball boy in the bathroom let the air out of the balls?

    NO

    Is it possible the ball boy did let air out?

    Yes, it is possible

    Is it more probable than not that Brady was aware of a conspiracy and the Patriots were deflating the balls?

    Possible, but there is no proof.

  114. guadalahonky says:
    Sep 1, 2015 1:12 PM

    paulrevereshorse1775 says:
    Sep 1, 2015 12:57 PM

    so 3 balls were below the predicted range of the Ideal Gas Law. What about the 5 balls that were within the range and the 4 balls that were above the range?

    Don’t those balls carry any relevance? Why are they forgotten?

    ———————————————————–

    Not so much forgotten as it is overshadowed by the fact that McNally stole the ball bag out of the officials room, and headed down to the field with it and locked himself into a room. In his words, to use the urinal.

    Turns out, the room had no urinal, and the investigators caught McNally in a lie.

    ——

    Overshadowed because people with a predetermined outcome want it to be that way. The urinal is irrelevant to the actual pressure of the 12 balls. But Wells makes it relevant in order to discredit anything McNally said or did. That was the point of bringing it up.

    The fact is 9 of the 12 balls were within or above the predicted range, regardless of whether that bathroom had a urinal, toilet, bidet, commode, bed pan, privy, Jacuzzi, refrigerator, or fully stocked bar. Ball pressure is what this is about. But Wells included 242 pages of distraction in his 243 page report for people that can’t keep their eye on the ball.

    So what did McNally do….let air out of 3 balls and add air to 4 while he was in that bathroom that he lied had a urinal?

    Is common sense a thing of the past?

  115. “jbreyare says:
    Sep 1, 2015 1:23 PM
    I have a question for Patriots fans. Let me start by saying I’m tired of this entire thing. It’s a joke that it’s gone this far and BOTH sides are to blame and should be ashamed of themselves. The question is, are you arguing that Brady did nothing wrong or are you simply arguing that there’s no “direct”/punishment too harsh/no impartial arbitrator? I can understand arguing the 2nd point. That’s just trying to poke holes in the process, which I think we can all agree has been one big mess. The issue I have is, how do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong? Given ALL of the evidence that you’ve read, how is it possible to think that SOMETHING was not happening AND Brady knew about it? I’m not talking in the legal sense either. I’m talking as a human being and using common sense. If you think nothing was going on then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.”

    Ok I made a really long post explaining this already, but I am just going to give you the short version.

    Tom Brady chews John Jastremski’s ass when the refs overinflate the balls in New York. Tells him not to let him get balls like that again. JJ doesn’t want Tom Brady to get pissed at him again, so he tells Jim McNally “if the refs add air to the ball after Tom approves them, let the extra air out” in an attempt to insure that Tom Brady gets the balls exactly as he approved them. A completely likely scenario that involves Tom Brady giving no instruction and having no knowledge of any deflating.

  116. “The issue I have is, how do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong?”

    1) The balls weren’t deflated.

    2) There’s no evidence that he wanted them deflated.

    3) The balls weren’t deflated.

    4) He testified under oath that he didn’t want them deflated, didn’t know that someone was going to deflate them, doesn’t think that they were deflated.

    5) The balls weren’t deflated.

    Since no wrongdoing occurred, he didn’t do anything wrong.

  117. James Harrison nailed it…

    “I don’t see what a federal judge can do with something the players signed in the collective bargaining agreement, which gives Roger Goodell (power) to do what he wants to,” Harrison said. “And if that’s the case and he’s going by the letter of what he says, there’s nothing (a judge) can do.”

  118. If Brady gets off for lying and cheating then Every player moving foward should not accept a punishment if they are caught in the act(no matter what it is. I say if your guilty, fight your suspension to the bitter end unless your a stand up guy who takes responsibility for your own actions .

  119. jbreyare says:
    Sep 1, 2015 1:23 PM

    I have a question for Patriots fans. Let me start by saying I’m tired of this entire thing. It’s a joke that it’s gone this far and BOTH sides are to blame and should be ashamed of themselves. The question is, are you arguing that Brady did nothing wrong or are you simply arguing that there’s no “direct”/punishment too harsh/no impartial arbitrator? I can understand arguing the 2nd point. That’s just trying to poke holes in the process, which I think we can all agree has been one big mess. The issue I have is, how do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong? Given ALL of the evidence that you’ve read, how is it possible to think that SOMETHING was not happening AND Brady knew about it? I’m not talking in the legal sense either. I’m talking as a human being and using common sense. If you think nothing was going on then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
    _______________________________________

    Was Brady complicit in ball tampering? To be perfectly honest, I don’t know that he was and I don’t know that he wasn’t. While everyone who posts here has opinions, I also don’t think any of them know whether he was or wasn’t either.

    I’ve read the Wells Report more than once, I’ve read the transcript of Brady’s appeal, and I’ve read transcripts from Berman’s court. I’ve also read the scientific analysis of the Wells Report data. Here is what I have concluded based on my readings of these and other documents.

    1. The psi of the footballs tested as the AFCCG may or may not have lower than would be predicted by the Ideal Gas Law. If they were lower, it was by about .2 psi. Does it make sense that someone would concoct a scheme to take .2 psi of air out of football? That’s a negligible amount and (in my opinion) not worth the trouble.

    2. John Jastremski texted his fiancee after the Jets game in October and stated that the footballs measured 16 psi (2.5 psi over the regulation limit). In that text JJ states that the footballs were supposed to be at 13 psi. If there was a scheme to reduce the Pats’ footballs to less than 12.5 psi, why is JJ texting this to his fiancee?

    3. Even the Wells Report failed to show that Brady was in any way involved in tampering. This is true despite the fact that in every case where there were multiple ways to interpret the evidence, Wells chose the interpretation that favored guilt over innocence. In the end Wells stated it was more probable than not the Brady was “generally aware” of tampering. In my mind, that the equivalent of saying “We’ve got nothing, but let’s find him guilty any way.”

    I understand that some people sincerely believe that Brady was behind a ball tampering scheme. That’s their right and I don’t begrudge them. But simply believing something does not make it true. If you’re going to sit a player for four games that will cost him close to $2 million dollars, you ought to have some more than a personal belief based on supposition and conjecture on your side.

    If I were going sell someone a bridge in Brooklyn, I’d be marketing to those gullible enough to accept the Wells Report as honest and fair.

  120. No one on either side of this issue is going to be happy with Berman’s decision, period. So, let’s redo the arbitration with an impartial judge and get to the bottom of this sad story.

    The NFL’s FO botched what should have been an easy sting operation, but Brady and his supporters are far too quick to dismiss his efforts to obstruct the investigation and diminish the commissioner’s authority due to Goodell’s recent mistakes.

    Regardless of where you stand now, this provides the only path to rejuvenating the Goodell and Brady’s reputations. Without real vindication, both will always carry the stigma of this drama forward.

    We should all want a truthful resolution and that requires an evenhanded ruling from someone unaffiliated with the NFL using subpoena power to get at the facts.

  121. Nobody has really answered my question. You’re saying there is no “direct” proof. I’m asking, based on everything you’ve read, do you really think nothing happened? Don’t say, “there’s no proof.” That’s debatable. Something there’s plenty of proof of tampering, others think there’s zero proof of tampering. I’m asking you as a human. Do you think there was something going on. I’m it necessarily saying that Tom said, deflate the balls to below the minimum. I’m saying, do you really think, that at no time, Brady didn’t discuss letting air out of the balls with the equipment managers?

  122. mototax says:
    Sep 1, 2015 2:00 PM
    James Harrison nailed it…

    “I don’t see what a federal judge can do with something the players signed in the collective bargaining agreement, which gives Roger Goodell (power) to do what he wants to,” Harrison said. “And if that’s the case and he’s going by the letter of what he says, there’s nothing (a judge) can do.”
    ————
    Ignorance is no excuse. Harrison is a guy who purposely tried to end careers. Dirty, dirty, dirty. And wrong by the way. That doesn’t mean Brady will prevail but he is wrong and so are you.

  123. “The issue I have is, how do you argue that he didn’t do anything wrong?”

    1) The balls weren’t deflated.

    2) There’s no evidence that he wanted them deflated.

    3) The balls weren’t deflated.

    4) He testified under oath that he didn’t want them deflated, didn’t know that someone was going to deflate them, doesn’t think that they were deflated.

    5) The balls weren’t deflated.

    Since no wrongdoing occurred, he didn’t do anything wrong.
    ———————————————————————————–#1 – they were deflated. How they were deflated is the question. The science involved also never PROVES how they were deflated, it only offers another explanation on HOW they could’ve been deflated

    #2 – there’s plenty of evidence that he wanted them deflated, unless you believe that the equipment managers texts weren’t talking about footballs. The question is whether he told them to deflate them under the allowable limit.

    #3 – See #1

    #4 – So? That doesn’t exonerate him. Would he be the first person to lie under oath?

    #5- See #1

  124. “#1 – they were deflated. How they were deflated is the question. The science involved also never PROVES how they were deflated, it only offers another explanation on HOW they could’ve been deflated

    #2 – there’s plenty of evidence that he wanted them deflated, unless you believe that the equipment managers texts weren’t talking about footballs. The question is whether he told them to deflate them under the allowable limit.

    #3 – See #1

    #4 – So? That doesn’t exonerate him. Would he be the first person to lie under oath?

    #5- See #1”

    #1 – They were not deflated. The gauge pressure at halftime was lower than 12.5. That’s not the same thing. “Deflated” means that air was removed. The science says otherwise.

    #2 – There is no evidence – none, not a single shread – that Brady wanted the balls under 12.5 or that he wanted them tampered with post-inspection. None. Nada. Zip. Zero. A nullity.

    #3 – See #1

    #4 – Yes, people have lied under oath. But his testimony under oath is much more compelling than any of the non-existent evidence that he was lying.

    #5 – See #3

  125. jbreyare says:
    Sep 1, 2015 2:29 PM

    1 – they were deflated. How they were deflated is the question. The science involved also never PROVES how they were deflated, it only offers another explanation on HOW they could’ve been deflated

    —–

    There is no proof they were deflated. In order for there to be proof of that, they would have had to have waited for the balls to return to their pre-game testing temperature to determine if any air had been released from the balls. that never happened.

    While it is true that the pressure measurements had changed from pre-game to halftime, air does not need to be let out for that to happen. So unless they retest after they return to pre-game temperature…..you can’t prove that they were deflated (meaning air was released)…..all you can prove is that the pressure was lower.

    That is the starting point in this entire fiasco…..and yet they never even got that far.

  126. paulrevereshorse1775 says, “There is no proof they were deflated.” That’s one opinion. There are many who think the coverup is proof that something untoward happened.

    Moving to the present, we need to determine why there were efforts to obstruct the investigation as well as whether or not Goodell acted in good faith in accordance with the CBA. That’s why we need to put all the failures behind and redo it properly, agreed?

    There is no question that every fan deserves knowing that the league will not play favorites nor discriminate against a particular team for spite. At the same time, all teams must honor the rules and there is at the very least an appearance of a coverup to obfuscate evidence in this case.

    I, personally, would like to see an independent arbiter with subpoena power to compel testimony of those under suspicion. Then we can settle whether or not there was an attempt to gain a competitive advantage by anyone associated with the Patriots. Up to now, this has not happened. True fans want to get to the bottom of this and not sweep it under the carpet.

  127. travlinful says:
    Sep 1, 2015 3:21 PM

    paulrevereshorse1775 says, “There is no proof they were deflated.” That’s one opinion. There are many who think the coverup is proof that something untoward happened

    ————

    coverup? what are you talking about?

    myself…..I would have no problem with a do-over. we want to see Wells’ investigation notes. emails and texts between NFL execs, and between NFL execs and Wells. You can get Jastremski and McNally if you want. It can’t continue to be a one-way street though.

    In my opinion, one of the reasons Patriots lawyers put a halt on a second interview between Wells and McNally (besides the agreement that they’d get one shot in the first place) was because they could see where the investigation was going……it was not a fact-finding endeavor, but a process to find guilt. Look at the Pash emails that the Patriots published…..if that isn’t insight into what was going on at the time, then nothing would be.

    read pages 44 through 48 of the Wells report. Wells does a pretty good job of scattering the details, but this is basically what it says:

    – Grigson emailed Dave Gardi & Mike Kensil that Patriots let air out of balls AFTER officials test them.

    – Gardi replies to Grigson that Kensil will be at game and will speak to game officials about his concern (the report does not confirm this happened)

    – Kensil forwards Grigson’s email to James Daniel, who forwards it to other Game Operations personnel that will be at the game. Kensil also forwarded Grigson‟s email to Dean Blandino and Alberto Riveron, both senior members of the NFL Officiating Department.

    – Both Riveron and Blandino decided that they would raise the issue with Walt Anderson,
    who had been assigned as the referee for the game. Both spoke with Anderson about following standard pregame inspection protocol, but neither mentions the content of Grigson’s email (about air being let out after the balls are tested).

    – footnote #25 on page 46 notes that NFL officials interviewed believe that standard pregame inspection protocol would be sufficient.

    in a nutshell, a team makes a complaint about tampering with footballs AFTER they are tested and is told that one Exec will talk with game officials but never did; the information is passed around to a number of people, and two other Execs that said they will speak with the game officials. Both tell the official to be sure to follow proper pregame inspection protocol, but never tell him about the complaint of what happens AFTER they are tested.

    How did the Wells investigators overlook this? (was it on the same piece of paper as Jim McNally’s ‘deflator comment’?)

    If one is setting up a sting, this is exactly what you do: tell Anderson to follow proper pregame inspection protocols….nothing more, nothing less.

    These are questions I’d like to see answered.

  128. travlinful says:
    Sep 1, 2015 3:21 PM

    paulrevereshorse1775 says, “There is no proof they were deflated.” That’s one opinion. There are many who think the coverup is proof that something untoward happened.
    ________________________________________

    If nothing happened, there can be no cover-up. By definition you can’t cover up something that never took place.

    This is, however, a terrific example of the circular reasoning that many use to prove Brady’s guilt. The cover-up is proof that there was tampering, and the tampering is proof of a cover-up.

  129. “On or shortly before March 6, the day that Tom Brady met with independent investigator Ted Wells and his colleagues, Brady directed that the cell phone he had used for the prior four months be destroyed,” the league statement read. “He did so even though he was aware that the investigators had requested access to text messages and other electronic information that had been stored on that phone. ‎During the four months that the cell phone was in use, Brady had exchanged nearly 10,000 text messages, none of which can now be retrieved from that device. The destruction of the cell phone was not disclosed until June 18, almost four months after the investigators had first sought electronic information from Brady.”

  130. “The commissioner found that Brady’s deliberate destruction of potentially relevant evidence went beyond a mere failure to cooperate in the investigation and supported a finding that he had sought to hide evidence of his own participation in the underlying scheme to alter the footballs.”

  131. Brady told Goodell that he, or an assistant acting on his command, regularly destroys cell phones and sim cards when he changes phones. This is, no doubt, in an effort to preserve privacy. It’s completely understandable. Brady, a very famous person married to an even more famous person, attempts, as best he can, to live a normal family life. Celebrities are targets to hackers. It makes sense to annihilate old devices.

    Except in this case.

    Brady had to know better. He had to know that if he wanted to get a new phone and protect his privacy he should have just put the old one in the top drawer until this was all over, or in a safe down at the bank, or hand it over to his lawyer, or do just about anything other than what he did.

    It’s worse than that though. Brady chose to get a new phone and order the destruction of the old one either March 5 or 6, the 6th being the exact day he met with independent investigator Ted Wells about the case. The timing is beyond suspicious.

    Oh, and while Brady may have destroyed that phone immediately, he hadn’t done anything to the one he used prior. That phone went out of service on Nov. 6, 2014, yet it was apparently still kicking around and his defense was able to access it.

    So does he immediately destroy phones or not?

  132. he destroyed his phones because that was his common practice. Wells told him he didn’t want the phone, certain pieces of information and emails. He didn’t provide them because that is what he was advised. I’m still not sure what the best answer for that was….I doubt I would have.

    Now, you can’t retrieve texts once they are deleted (except by forensic imaging, as they did with Jastremski’s and McNally’s phones, but Wells didn’t want the phone, so how was he going to achieve that?). For the appeal Brady did provide emails and a list of phone numbers (certified by AT&T) to/from which text messages were sent, over 10,000 messages during the 3 month span Wells had been looking for. 28 of those numbers were identified as NFL-related people. They could easily check to see if any of them were to the ball boys beyond what Wells already had, and for any non-member of the NFLPA, the NFL could have requested the phone for analysis. If the NFL wanted the truth, then why didn’t they follow up on this? They already spent $5 million….what’s a little more to find the truth?

    The truth is they didn’t want any more information. They wanted to hang Brady on “destroying his phone”. It worked pretty good for a while, until Berman unsealed the documents.

    Then the other side of the story started to unfold. And I’ll bet there’s a lot more to that side of the story untold than there is on Brady’s side.

  133. travlinful says:
    Sep 1, 2015 4:28 PM

    Oh, and while Brady may have destroyed that phone immediately, he hadn’t done anything to the one he used prior. That phone went out of service on Nov. 6, 2014, yet it was apparently still kicking around and his defense was able to access it.

    ———-

    good thing you mentioned that phone that he still had. Now THAT phone would have been a prime candidate to do some forensic imaging on. Most of the texts that Wells quoted in the report are from October…..you know, the ones that talk about a needle, the ones that talk about blowing the balls up like watermelons.

    Wells makes a connection that the Oct. 17th game against the Jets the balls were later found to be at 16psi. Texts show Tom was pissed about that. Wells concludes from that string of texts that Brady is instructing them after that game to deflate the balls, but doesn’t inspect the phone used during that time?

    Why not? Why didn’t he image it?

  134. Paul, read it again. He destroyed his phone AFTER he was advised that the investigator wanted it. We don’t know whether or not his attorneys advised him to provide it or not, but it doesn’t make sense they would tell him to destroy evidence at that late date, does it?

    In a trial, it has been my experience that when a witness destroys evidence and is caught making a false statement as to whether or not he ALWAYS destroys them, he credibility is destroyed. Most jurors would discontinue believing him, period.

    You seem to be hoping for jury nullification as in the O.J. Simpson criminal case.

  135. Brady explained it is ordinary practice for him to destroy a cell phone or ask his assistant to destroy it as soon as he gets a new phone. But the league found that Brady began using a new phone on or after March 6 — the day he was interviewed by Wells and company. That’s not a good look.

    And it gets worse.

    The NFL also determined that the phone Brady used prior to the one he destroyed on or near March 6 had never been destroyed. In fact, it was made available to investigators.

    “This conflicts with the fact that the cellphone that he used prior to November 6, 2014, was, in fact, available for Mr. Maryman’s review. Had Mr. Brady followed what he and his attorneys called his ‘ordinary practice,’ one would expect that the cellphone that he had used prior to November 6, 2014, would have been destroyed long before Mr. Maryman was hired. No explanation was provided for this anomaly.”

    Again, those sound like the actions and explanations of a guilty man.

  136. What Brady should have done … and its not too late to do it …. is start doing from freakin’ PR to start fixing his rep.

    He should say, “I will accept the 4 games, if the NFL admits that this was a witch-hunt, based on false data, false conclusion, ignorance of their own facts, misrrepresenting my testimony, lied about my testimony, changed the appeal from an appeal to another penalty assignment/different standards, would not let me question the lawyers, facts and documentation on my case, ignored mitigating evidence and worst of all .. have not charged the Colts for the same alleged violation.”

  137. Travinful …. first the appeal is to debate the penalty which was based on the Wells report – The NFL’s OWN words with said, “…totally cooperative” and all the other stuff.

    Come appeal Goodell moved the goal posts, turned the Appeal into another violation/penalty action … and brought up something the NFL certainly could have went after legally but didn’t. His phone. And basically most people would never turn over their Phone or PC. Would you?!?!?

    And the NFL has proven in … IN SPADES .. they will abuse, leak, defame anybody, anytime the content in the phones.

    And you and others seem to miss the most important part .. the balls were LEGAL. And the NFL has played with over and under inflated balls for DECADES with NO STANDARDS.

  138. What’s at issue, david, is whether or not Brady obstructed justice. You’re arguing about the psi and the NFLs credibility when the fact is, Brady’s own lawyers were more than ready to accept a 1-game suspension as long as their client only had to admit he interfered with the investigation.

    The goal posts moved due to Brady’s actions alone. He admitted he could have handled the NFL’s query better. He chose to eliminate whatever evidence his phone contained. I do not believe anyone would destroy exculpatory evidence. That’s fact.

    You focus on the NFL’s credibility, but seem to ignore that of Brady and the Pats. Brady laughed at the allegations in an interview just days after it came to light. He displayed a cavalier attitude towards a serious charge. If someone charged me with a serious infraction, I would have immediately expressed my innocence. I wouldn’t have acted so unconcerned.

    Also, the Pats set up a website to discredit the Wells Report. An effort to win the PR battle in the court of public opinion and undermine Goodell and the NFL. All parties could have tried a little harder to get to the bottom of the unusual behavior of the employees who handled the balls at home games. I don’t see much in the way of cooperation from the Pats despite how the Wells Report reads.

    Apologists say Nixon was never impeached and they’re right, of course. Pats fans seem to be making the same mistake. I was a big fan of Lance Armstrong. I followed his career for years and almost never missed a stage of the TdF. I supported him up until it became clear from the evidence, he had fooled almost all of us with his coverup. I hope a redo of the arbitration will prove conclusively which side is telling the truth on this one. Fans deserve that.

  139. “Brady laughed at the allegations in an interview just days after it came to light. He displayed a cavalier attitude towards a serious charge. ”

    He laughed at the allegations about 7 hours after the game ended, not “days after it came to light.” And it was laughable. It wasn’t until the next day, when the NFL leaked the false inflation data to Chris Mortensen (and others) that it became “a serious charge.”

    It’s still ludicrous – that he would intentionally take balls that he approves and likes the feel of and then have some guy take them into the bathroom and let out so little air that it’s within the margin of error of the NFL’s pressure gauges, and couldn’t possibly be detected by Brady or anyone else. That the NFL has misunderstood, overreacted and then gone on a witch hunt doesn’t make the allegations any less laughable…

  140. What’s crazy is the Brady Haters are absolutely 100% convinced Brady’s guilty even though the NFL not only doesn’t have ANY evidence of it, they don’t even have any evidence an infraction occured. They even told the Judge they have NO evidence and their “best” evidence Brady ordered a deflation scheme was that he told JJ he liked the balls at 12.5PSI.

    This is what the NFL told the Judge.

    Brady was suspended for 4 games. Goodell equated it to a PED suspension.

    A player gets suspended 4 games for testing positive for PED’s. The player is notified of a test, 2 completely different specimens are tested simultaneously, and independantly of one another, and then the results are scientifically concluded. If a scientific test determines an illegal substance – and which substances are illegal have been collectively bargained with the NFLPA and agreed upon prior to the test – then the player is suspended 4 games.

    Brady was suspended 4 games for at first, just being “generally aware” of an euqipment violation. A violation that has been collectively bargained is a “team” penalty, not a player penalty. And the agreed penalty is a team fine. Not a player fine and certainly NOT a player suspension.

    The appeal transcripts show – 100% – that Goodell LIED. He clearly stated Tom could not remember his conversation with JJ after AFC C game. The transcripts PROVE this a lie as Brady’s testimony – which he took under oath (with a possible penalty of perjury if he was caught lying) – shows he recalled the convesration & discussed it in detail.

    So, why did Roger lie?

    In that appeal award, Goodell cited THIS moment, Brady “not remembering” the conversation as a reason to uphold the award, and even stating this as one of the reasons he “up’d” the lanugage from “generally aware” to Brady organizaing a “scheme”.

    And yet the Haters 100% believe Brady is lying & cheated b/c Goodell & the NFL said they did.

    Ask yourself this… Wells interviews McNally & JJ several times each (4 times to be specific), yet NONE of their testimony made it into the Wells Report.

    None. These are the 2 guys who supposedly took orders from Brady & deflated balls, yet NONE of their interviews were in the report? Why? They’re the 2 main witnesses.

    You can hate Brady all you want. Hate the Pats, but this is a great injustice. Saints fans know what I’m talking about. Your team could be next.

    Defend the wall 🏈🏆🏆🏆🏆 Patriot FANS
    Kiss them rings💍💍💍💍haters!!!
    TB12 + BB = G.O.A.T.
    😘🏈 😘😡😍😉😂
    😘🏆🏆🏆🏆🙌
    ☝️More for the👍Thumb💍🙏

  141. Really the proper action would be to throw out the entire Wells Report due to it’s extreme bias, remove Brady’s suspension, return the $1 million to the Patriots, return the Patriots draft choices, and give the Patriots an extra first round pick because of all the league has put them through.

  142. Brady will win book it. Why…

    …shoot there’s like 20 things of outright whats wrong with NFL’s case, actions and approach.

    …. Berman taking too much time to rule. If we was going to rule for NFL, it would be straight-forward. I’m sorry it a rotten CBA, but you signed it … have a nice day.

    …. he’s take time to really lay this out why to vacate …

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