Joe Montana: If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying, so the Patriots are trying hard

AP

Tom Brady grew up idolizing Joe Montana, and now the two of them are the only two players with three Super Bowl MVP awards. So what does Montana think about Brady?

He thinks Brady is a cheater. And he means that in the best of ways.

Montana said in an interview with Andrew Siciliano on NFL Network that cheating is part of the game of football, and that finding any edge is what makes players and teams great.

“They always say, ‘If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying.’ So they’re trying hard,” Montana said.

Montana has said in the past that a quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated, but Montana also said that Deflategate was no big deal. That’s still how he feels.

“You know, everybody does everything they can to possibly get a little bit of an edge. I mean, back then it wasn’t illegal but it was illegal, like our guys used to spray — and everybody did it at the time — silicone on their jerseys, the linemen, so that the defensive linemen couldn’t get a hold of them. And the defensive linemen did it so the offensive linemen couldn’t hold them,” Montana said. “It’s a game. Everybody wants to win, so you do whatever you can to make it happen.”

Attitudes toward cheating in the NFL have shifted in recent years. What once was viewed as gamesmanship is now viewed as worthy of a lengthy investigation and a significant suspension. Montana still has the old-school mentality that cheating is part of the game.

300 responses to “Joe Montana: If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying, so the Patriots are trying hard

  1. It’s just awesome how the NFL has totally smeared Brady’s reputation without any actual evidence. Total integrity and stuff.

  2. So, what Joe is essentially saying is, if you examined the 49ers and all other teams tactics closely through the years, you’d come up with a litany of “cheating” situations that would dwarf Deflategate.

    He’s saying there is nothing really to see here that hasn’t existed since the beginning of time.

  3. I’m sure a QB can tell if footballs are under-inflated if I toss them three balls and one is 13.5, one is 12.5 and one is 11.5. they will be able to tell if they are low.

    However, if I hike them 10 balls that are that range from 11-12.5, while Terrell Suggs is rushing them off the end and they have to release the ball quickly, I’m not so sure. And if you don’t tell them the psi of the football, will they be able to tell that all of them are lower than 12.5?

    I would think they couldn’t.

  4. Joe, don’t forget Walsh messing with parcels headsets during the first 15 scripted plays which was a competitive advantage for them. It’s on NFL films and you can clearly hear parcels telling Walsh to not do that again. This is while rice was using stickum, lineman spraying their jerseys and management cheating on salary cap so I guess joe you are calling your entire organization cheaters or you are a hypocrite.

  5. well, things change Joe. the NFL should come down hard every single time any type of cheating is found.

    The cheating stinks.

    At least he admitted that the pats are a bunch of big time cheaters.

    asterisk

  6. I’m a Bills fan who grew up loving my team.

    Having said that, Brady is the G.O.A.T. Bellichick the same.
    I think the NE area is lucky to have them, and until we stop them, they are the champs.

    Forget cheating, it’s called refusing to lose.

  7. “You know, everybody does everything they can to possibly get a little bit of an edge. I mean, back then it wasn’t illegal but it was illegal, like our guys used to spray “.

    Everything he did is tainted….tainted championships….isn’t that how it works?

  8. “Attitudes toward cheating in the NFL have shifted in recent years.”

    A reflection of our litigious and overly-sensitive society. What the Patriots have legitimately accomplished over the last 15 seasons is a very potent litmus test for determining just how juvenile and naive football fans can be.

  9. Brady is going for one more ring. Joe knows it. Joe will become number 2 on that list of QB’s and he doesn’t like it. If it happens, ask your buddy PeyPey how it feels to be second to Brady, he’ll have some advice for you.

  10. Joe has the proper attitude. It probably happened, but it was a minor deal.

    The leaks, the investigation, and the punishment were all absurd. Should have been a fine and possibly a low round pick as punishment. That it became such a circus reflects the insecurities of the other 31 clubs.

  11. Maybe he’s right as far as trying to make a point. He’s dead wrong as far as trying to be a good example to kids today, almost saying it’s ok to try and cheat if you can get away with it…bad move Joe, just lost a little bit of respect for you.

  12. First of all to the guy saying pick plays are illegal. Yes they are but watch any game in the NFL every team is going to run them. I am sick of people with no room to talk calling out the patriots. JOE you literally just said you guys did illegal things but since it was harder for the league to inforce it you could get away with it. Jerry rice admired to using stickum then as soon as he saw it was illegal said “no I was wrong not stickum something else” like cmon get over yourself. Joe you are the 2nd greatest QB in my opinion but don’t think because you didn’t get caught doesn’t mean you didn’t cheat. Lastly winning a super bowl in the salary cap era is much harder than winning 2 Super Bowls back then

  13. Between his total inability to understand that Deflategate is based on confirmed lies cooked up by anti-science morons in the league office and his confirmed participation in extensive headset and stickum cheating, I have lost all respect for Montana. Like everyone else, he tried to tangle with Brady and instead ended up face down in the mud. Maybe he can find Goodell while he’s down there.

  14. Montana still has the old-school mentality that cheating is part of the game.
    =====================
    That’s because the 49ers cheated their way to championships… disregarding the salary cap

  15. “They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.”

    You have got to be kidding me, right? lmao. This is why we sit here and laugh at you people every day. Pick plays when run correctly are not illegal, first of all. Secondly, when there is an illegal pick it gets called. Every single time.

    Get a life. Seriously.

  16. Drew brees said he can tell but would not be able to tell during a game cause he wouldn’t be thinking about it at all

    Joe doesn’t like seeing brady take over as GOAT

  17. Old school: finding a way to win

    New school: finding someone to blame for your loss

    Ladies n Gentlemen: I give you the pussification of America.

    It ain’t cheating if you don’t get caught. To whine and complain is a lack of knowledge or experience. Ask any “player” and I’m sure he, or she, can come up with several examples of someone getting the best of them. Regardless of the sport.

  18. I agree with Montana and the old school mentality. The new mentality “Whine all the time”, sucks.

  19. This has been an issue with the whole deflategate. One minute, the defense is they didn’t do it, then they change it to everyone does it and it’s no big deal. Which is it? Did they do it and it shouldn’t matter because everyone does it or they never did it?

  20. They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.
    ————————————-

    the patriots have been flagged more than any other team this year for pick plays

  21. Really with the way the NFL has turned into arena football I’d welcome DB’s, linemen, whoever being able to hold within first 5 seconds of a play and make them work to get open like backyard football.

  22. “They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.”

    Pick plays are illegal, rub plays are not. Why don’t you actually learn about what you’re whining about instead of mindlessly crying?

  23. Please, for the love of God, please let this story die. If the Patriots cheated before, fine. But clearly, there is no way they are cheating now and they are playing better than they ever have. Just drop it media.

  24. Old Joe Cool (he’s nearly 60) just confirmed how much he wants to be regarded as the greatest, by coming out with this unnecessary defamatory comment to smear Tom Brady.
    Sorry Joe. You were a good QB in another era, but Tom is the GOAT and it’s not even close.

  25. patsxsaintsfan,

    The new rash of crying about pick plays is just the latest anti-Patriots talking point echoed by people who don’t watch football all that closely. It’s the Sad Grapes Du Jour.

    Next week they’ll be saying the Pats commit a lot of holds that don’t get called…*snoooooooore*

  26. Brady didn’t cheat… Once again the first story out sets perception… Thanks Mr Chris Mortensen!!!

    This coming from the guy who’s best receiver broke records “cheating” … Right Mr Jerry Rice????

    Some people should just keep their mouth shut.

  27. Jerry Rice:
    “I know this might be a little illegal, guys, but you put a little spray, a little stickum on them, to make sure that texture is a little sticky,”

    So what is worse:
    1. The admitted use of stickum by a star wide receiver for many years, including championship years

    2. More probably than not being generally aware of the unproven allegations of another person slightly deflating footballs in a cold weather game

  28. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM

    The difference is it’s not Brady using stickum, it’s cheating on an institutional
    _________________________________
    With all the space the Patriot’s are taking up in your head, be careful or you will be the one that ends up in an institution. I’m sorry the patriots have beat your team up so much that it causes you to lose any sense of reality. HEhateme is another who has the Patriots in his head. You can keep saying all you want but the team keeps winning so enjoy haters!

  29. ahhhhhh so then Lance Armstrong is the best Cyclist of all time, A-rod and Barry Bonds deserve every award and record they have ever broken. Sounds about right. How about get the advantage by extra time in the film room, or in the gym and not by cheating.

  30. Those were the good old days of football, before the lawyers fully infiltrated the NFL and every little word in the rule book is deconstructed to fit what ever the commish wants to achieve. Instead the coaches, players, and the commissioner would handle it behind on the field or with a simple phone call and not in the media or court room.

    Enough of our tax dollars get wasted, let’s not waste more on litigation about ball pressure.

  31. “First of all to the guy saying pick plays are illegal. Yes they are but watch any game in the NFL every team is going to run them.”

    Remember that time in the AFC Championship against the Broncos when they ran a pick play where Welker took Talib out for the rest of the game…. and no one cared?

    In fact… they celebrated it. I guess it’s ok as long as it’s not the Patriots.

  32. sb44champs says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:12 AM
    Montana still has the old-school mentality that cheating is part of the game.
    =====================
    That’s because the 49ers cheated their way to championships… disregarding the salary cap
    ______________–

    Uh, the first year of the cap was Montana’s last year in the league, with the Chiefs. If you want to go at the king you’d best not miss. There are enough factual things to post without being inaccurate.

    It’s sad that Joe seems to think that to keep himself on top he has to disparage the guy coming for his throne.

  33. The Great 49’ers:
    WRs used stickum….CHEATING
    Linemen used silicone….CHEATING
    Owner paid players off the books….CHEATING
    Coaches tampered with Headsets….CHEATING
    Result: Celebrated as league’s greatest dynasty.

    Then there is New England:
    Taped signals (like every team did) but stood in wrong box on sidelines……..Vilified
    PSI found 0.2 below Ideal Gas Law calculation though original PSI never recorded…….Vilified.
    NFL admits no evidence against Brady…..still vilified

    In the meantime, Goodell and the Greedy 32 have thrust a massively lucrative gambling operation upon America and its youth………$$$$$…….Shield still intact.

    Owners….please fire Goodell, Pash, Vincent….and end our national nightmare now!
    Congress……..let’s try protecting the every day citizen for a change and not Goodell’s Billionaires’ Club

  34. Face it Patriot fans, the NFL looks at you as cheaters for a reason and it has nothing to do with jealously. You don’t hear the same thing towards other teams that have been successful like Steelers, Cowboys or 49ers of past. Glad that one of the greatest of all time said it.

    Cheaters get no respect. ****

  35. If Montana can tell a ball is under inflated how did he not know this every time he played in cold weather?..ask Aikman that question as well.

  36. weepingjebus says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:12 AM

    ….Like everyone else, he tried to tangle with Brady and instead ended up face down in the mud. Maybe he can find Goodell while he’s down there.

    Yes he did and now Montana, Jerry Rice, Steve Young and I expect a number of others are trying to extricate themselves from the mud by switching to…

    Hey, even if it did happen it is no big deal.

    The thing is, there is no evidence that it did happen. In fact, the NFL completely exonerated the Patriots organization in the Pash/Wells report but still took away draft picks. Since then the NFL has exonerated Brady and the equipment guys in and out of court by first admitting in court that they had no evidence of any wrongdoing, and then lifting the suspensions of the equipment guys outside of court.

    So of course it is no big deal, because it never actually happened.

  37. Joe a federal judge disagrees with you and the proof of that is when he asked the NFL under oath what proof they had balls were tampered with and under oath they admitted theyhad none. So just drop it joe as you sound stupid making these moronic comments.

  38. Cheating is for the weak – why play a game with competitive guidelines if you have to break rules to succeed? Go into politics if you want to secretly screw people over. Dan Marino > Montana

  39. It is about as impossible to run the table and go 19-0 in the salary cap era as anything you could imagine. Hell, it was almost impossible before to go undefeated which is why only one team ever did it in the modern era.

    The hilarious thing about all of this is that all the people that have called into question brady and the pat’s accomplishments have given them the motivation to make the impossible possible, and they are just good enough to do it with the right motivation. To top it all off this could be done as a repeat.

    As a pats fan, I thank you with all my heart fort making your worst nightmare come true possible.

    Thank you.

  40. PSI doesn’t matter to the league office, if it did matter they would make all measurements available from every game to the public to show that every game is played using the same game balls.
    PSI kept the league in the headlines over any other sports topic in the off season.

  41. I like how Montana says “we all cheated” and then throws offensive and defensive linemen under the bus. What about you, saint joe? Cop to your own cheating or shut up.

  42. “What once was viewed as gamesmanship is now viewed as worthy of a lengthy investigation and a significant suspension.”

    Well, since football is mostly about gambling nowadays…

    Of course cheating is viewed differently. Rigging casinos is a federal crime. Why should rigged games be any different?

  43. They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.
    ____

    Hahahaha!!! How much screaming and stomping of feet do you do every week watching them??? Hahahahaha

  44. So the Pats cheat…Please Define cheat.
    Joe is absolutely spot on. Every team runs pick plays, some are better at it than others, and the ones that suck at it get flagged. It’s as simple as that.
    BTW I want the colts to win and they run pick plays too

  45. At least he admitted that the pats are a bunch of big time cheaters.

    ___

    Yeah, a guy who never played for the Pats organization cannot admit that they are cheating. He can only guess.

  46. It was never the cheating by deflating balls that was a big deal. It was Brady’s lies and the cover up which ruined his reputation.

  47. donny1rodriguez says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:02 AM
    So they’re cheating. This is common knowledge Joe.

    —————————-

    Yes this is exactly what he is saying – that the Patriots (along with every other football team since the dawn of time) are cheating.

    Anyone who has followed football since the early days knows that cheating (excuse me, GAMESMANSHIP) has been part of the fabric of the game since before players even wore leather helmets. Not to mention that what qualifies as cheating today (deflated footballs, videotaping, stickum, silicone, pick plays, headset tampering, etc) wouldn’t have even raised an eyebrow in the 60’s or 70’s

    Today’s NFL fans are so ridiculously shrill and overly-sensitive that it makes me appreciate hockey season that much more.

  48. The Law, Vegas, and common sense disagree with you there Joe (and The Patriots).

    For starters, this is a business and bound by the same laws all other businesses are bound by. Maliciously tampering with a Product to gain a competitive advantage is against the law, period.

    There are billions of dollars that change hands as a result of these games. Most games are decided by a few points, maybe a turnover, a few bad calls, or a key play or 2… if a team is in any way gaining an artificial advantage they can literally alter the actions of an entire industry. Vegas cares not for your cheating ways.

    To accept and promote cheating in Professional Sports is ridiculous. If anything the penalties should be harsher for those that undermine the sport. What we have now is a Players Union that will defend the Players no matter what they have done and teams of lawyers that will put defending their client at all costs above the integrity of the sport… and that is clearly an issue that goes beyond the sport itself.

    Cheating, in any way, should be stripped from all sports any way it can. The fact that the Patriots have been let off the hook so many times is damaging to the sport.

    Stop defending cheating.

  49. I remember seeing Montana and a bunch of his teammates partying it up in Stillwater, MN during Chiefs training camp one year (when they had camp in River Falls, WI). He looked like he was having a great time. He was probably just relieved to not be in Wisconsin for a little while.

  50. “Of course cheating is viewed differently. Rigging casinos is a federal crime. Why should rigged games be any different?”

    lol, listen to yourself dude. Maybe take a break from the computer and focus on something other than the Patriots for a few days. Although, you might need to hire a crew to remove the Patriots from your dome.

  51. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.

    ___

    Wait, I thought you wanted us to check the fumble stats….now we have to check these too???

  52. ricardorobertasq says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:17 AM

    This has been an issue with the whole deflategate. One minute, the defense is they didn’t do it, then they change it to everyone does it and it’s no big deal. Which is it? Did they do it and it shouldn’t matter because everyone does it or they never did it?
    _____________________________________

    The Patriots have said from the very start that no one in its organization released air from footballs after they were approved by game officials. They never said “everyone does it!” and they still don’t.

    This is a textbook example of how the facts regarding “deflategate” has been distorted. Joe Montana says everyone does it and suddenly you’re attributing that argument to the Patriots. That’s not what happened, of course. But hey, why get hung up on some actual facts?

  53. js4strings says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:06 AM

    I’m sure a QB can tell if footballs are under-inflated if I toss them three balls and one is 13.5, one is 12.5 and one is 11.5. they will be able to tell if they are low.

    However, if I hike them 10 balls that are that range from 11-12.5, while Terrell Suggs is rushing them off the end and they have to release the ball quickly, I’m not so sure. And if you don’t tell them the psi of the football, will they be able to tell that all of them are lower than 12.5?

    I would think they couldn’t.

    ————————–

    When Wells waxed up his Slanderin’ mustache and went gunning for Brady he needed to ignore Walt’s testimony so he could manufacture even a .3 psi difference in the ball from what the temperature would predict.
    ( of course accepting Walt’s testimony put the balls exactly where the temperature predicted)

    Your argument is actually using Mortenson level numbers not the trivial difference Slanderin’ Ted invented.

    even Slanderin’ Teds best smear would be a much tougher test (2%!) of detecting a difference than the Mortenson lie numbers.

  54. Thank you Joe for confirming that the 12 citizens of Haternation love teams that play exactly the way the Pats do, or would if they were smart enough.

    Be happy that you will all be able to tell your grandkids that you were witness the Greatest Team, Coach and QB the game has ever seen. Even falsified claims cannot tarnish their shining light.

    All Hail Patriots.

  55. Sounds like a conspiracy of multiple 49ers players to defraud the NFL of its integrity. I want each player/coach of the 4 Montana Super Bowl teams to return their rings and trophies to Rodger Goodell while begging for mercy on their knees. It’s the right thing to do.

  56. ” Montana still has the old-school mentality that cheating is part of the game.”….

    ….And it would be the correct mentality, wouldn’t it Micheal David Smith. Would you say that there is no cheating going on? Brady is just the most recent example. O.J got off on a technicality too but everyone knew he did it. And Speaking of Juice, PED cheats continue to get caught. Joe is right. People will do what they need to do to win, cheating and all.

  57. ricardorobertasq says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:17 AM
    This has been an issue with the whole deflategate. One minute, the defense is they didn’t do it, then they change it to everyone does it and it’s no big deal. Which is it? Did they do it and it shouldn’t matter because everyone does it or they never did it?

    —————-
    Do try to keep up, will you?

    They didn’t do it, it’s been proven, there was no tampering at all. Now go do the rest of your homework on your own.

  58. There are billions of dollars that change hands as a result of these games. Most games are decided by a few points, maybe a turnover, a few bad calls, or a key play or 2… if a team is in any way gaining an artificial advantage they can literally alter the actions of an entire industry. Vegas cares not for your cheating ways.

    ___

    Sounds like someone keeps betting against the Pats and losing.

  59. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.

    Ladies and gentleman the president of CRYBABY NATION
    realitycheckBABY, key word -BABY

    Check the fines check the fumble stats

  60. joker65 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:45 AM

    realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.

    ___

    Wait, I thought you wanted us to check the fumble stats….now we have to check these too???

    realitycheckbaby is running out of things to cry about since his team is awful,

  61. Here we go again this post is only what a WEEK later get over it nothing ever proven PERIOD….

    Joe what would you have been without jerry rice your whole career .
    What a looser….
    Sucks that Brady is the GOAT & you can’t handle the truth.

  62. I agree with the poster who said let this story die.

    This “scandal” was the biggest waste of time and money.

    Brady doing fine with properly inflated footballs.

    Now that the season has started let the focus be on the actual game.

    Whoops! Incompetent refs, clock operators, and the like show the real threat to the integrity of the game.

    So let’s stir up the pot again with this cheater nonsense. Classic misdirection

  63. randomguy9999 says: Oct 16, 2015 9:07 AM

    well, things change Joe. the NFL should come down hard every single time any type of cheating is found.

    The cheating stinks.

    At least he admitted that the pats are a bunch of big time cheaters.

    asterisk
    ==========================

    ^^^^^

    The equivalent of:

    “Cheating will not be tolerated, starting NOW!”

  64. ‘the Patriots have been let off the hook so many times ”

    Again, they have been caught violating the rules one (1) time, when they had a camera in the wrong place, and they were fined and stripped of a first round draft pick. They’ve been punished, again in an over-the-top fashion, for one further unproven allegation which the evidence suggests never happened. This notion that they’ve “been let off the hook” at all, never mind “so many times,” is utterly preposterous.

  65. Montana has said in the past that a quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated
    _____________________________

    You know what else a quarterback can tell? When the game ball is getting all tacky from the stickum on their #1 receiver’s hands.

  66. It is so sad how so many people think cheating is okay and can be minimized by calling it “gamesmanship” and saying everyone does it or it’s no big deal. This poisonous attitude is crippling our society from our courts to our politicians to our financial institutions all the way down to even our sporting events.

  67. I’m disappointed with Joe and his comments. Hopefully it’s another one of those “for clicks only” cut and paste articles today’s “journalists” are famous for and either he made the comments in jest or they were taken out of context. I would really hate it if Joe intentionally accused Brady of cheating, cause there is no proof that he did.

    The legal and PR tide has already turned against Goodell. Goodell’s moronic attempt to force parity by penalizing Brady and the Patriots failed at the starting gate. He should have known it would because his attempt to cause the Patriots to lose the Super Bowl by distracting the team during their crucial Super Bowl preparations, failed miserably.

    Goodell has only succeeded in violating the integrity of the game that he purports to hold in such high regard. Except that the only thing that he holds in such high regard is himself. And because of that, he again has undermined his own efforts to try and force parity and maintain league integrity. And will ultimately lose to the NFLPA the autonomy currently provided a legitimate commissioner under the CBA. He fails full circle once again.

    Joe Montana on the other hand, has an enviable reputation. It would be foolish for him to try and sully Brady just because Brady appears to be ready to break some of Joe’s records. That is lower than I thought Joe would ever go. If Joe has been carrying the burden of having won games and/or established records that were directly related to his own participation in a cheating scheme, then let him have at it. But to imply that because he did it, then Brady must have done it and therefore in some way Brady is undeserving of his accomplishments, is not right and certainly not dignified. Say it ain’t so, Joe, say it ain’t so.

  68. Thanks Joe,
    Like you and the 49er never cheated.
    The edge, pushing the limit, if they give you an inch take a mile.
    Like the old race car driver Junior Johnson says, I was not cheating. I was an inovator.
    This is what the Pats,BB & TB are inovators.

  69. On another topic,

    I realize why I haven’t heard any claims about how brady’s performance would be dropping with “proper” equipment anymore but ,

    how come no more comments about how the pats fumbling rate suddenly skyrocketing with “proper” equipment?

    I guess when you are being made to look like a fool when asked to provide proof that the pats are “cheating”, the best thing to do is just say “they are cheating” and leave it at that.

  70. Oh you diluted, naive, and disingenuous fools. You took what was basically a pine tar/hair goo incident into the worst crime of the 20th century. Let it go, I have. The Pats are a dynasty of excellence, and I’m no fan of theirs. But respect where it is due.

  71. The Steelers were the biggest CHEATERS of them all, they introduced steroids into the NFL gaining a great advantage over other teams.
    Terry Bradshaw told the ‘Steelers steroids story’ on NFL Fox how they used steroids for a long time.
    But it seems no one in the NFL wants to talk about that…wonder why…

  72. @ randomguy9999 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:07 AM
    well, things change Joe. the NFL should come down hard every single time any type of cheating is found.

    The cheating stinks.

    At least he admitted that the pats are a bunch of big time cheaters. ———————————————————————————————————————————-
    When did Joe play, coach, or work in the Pats front office?? As that’s the only way he’d know the Pats are cheating

  73. js4strings says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:06 AM

    I’m sure a QB can tell if footballs are under-inflated if I toss them three balls and one is 13.5, one is 12.5 and one is 11.5. they will be able to tell if they are low.

    However, if I hike them 10 balls that are that range from 11-12.5, while Terrell Suggs is rushing them off the end and they have to release the ball quickly, I’m not so sure. And if you don’t tell them the psi of the football, will they be able to tell that all of them are lower than 12.5?

    I would think they couldn’t.
    ————————————

    I would think they wouldn’t give a carp unless it was severly underinflated or overinflated.

    A QB going to the line has the play in his head, he is making sure his guys are in the right formation, he is checking the defense to see what they might be giving him, he is adjusting the line in case he reads a blitz and needs extra coverage. Then he is executing the play. He is not thinking “Hmm, this ball seems to be 11.5 psi.”

    “The airline instructs me that in case of loss of air pressure, a mask will drop from the ceiling. Tug gently to start the air flow. Look, when I am shoulder rolling at 800 mph, the word “gentle” is not in my vocabulary.” – Dennis Miller

  74. “Patriots cheat. No legitimate SuperBowls. Sorry. It’s true.”

    The Steelers have the longest and most documented cheating history in the league. If the Pats SBs aren’t legitimate than the Steelers aren’t either.

    And they there’s Miami who tampered to get Coach Shula, so nothing they did under Shula is “legitimate” either right ?

    Or how about well documented Bronocos salary cap cheating in their SB winning years ? Yup, nothing they did is “legitimate” either.

    Or the 49ers whose cheating has been mentioned in numerous posts above. Nothing they did is “legitimate” either right ?

    What ? Its not the Pats so all those teams are perfectly “legitimate” ?

    That’s called a double standard by the way. Especialy since the one and only documented “cheating” the Pats have done is putting a camera out of position for one game in 2007.

    And no, a bunch of internet idiots whining that the Pats cheated doesn’t make it so.

  75. Waaahhhhh, I hate the Pats so I’m going to go to every article about them and call them cheaters and say they have no legitimate championships. That will teach ’em.

  76. Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru. Deflategate was BS and was just a make up punishment for spygate. Everybody knows this.

  77. george1859 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:07 AM
    I’m a Bills fan who grew up loving my team.

    Forget cheating, it’s called refusing to lose.
    *********************
    Arguing semantics?

    Still cheating by whatever name you want to call it.

  78. When the Patriots had won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years and were trying for 4 in 6 years the Steelers were talking about it because they had something to lose.

    When the Patriots were 18-0 going into the Super Bowl in 2007-2008 the former Dolphins were talking about it because they had something to lose.

    When the Brady was about t0 to win Super Bowl #4 Troy Aikman was talking about it because he had something to lose.

    Now Brady and the Patriots have a chance at a 5th ring Charles Haley and Montana are out in the media because they have something to lose.

    Haley has the most Super Bowls as a player. That’s his legacy. If Brady gets to 5 he will never me talked about again.

    If Brady get’s 5, Montana’s excellence will move to the background and he won’t be considered by most to be the greatest ever anymore.

    No one wants their legacy to be reduced, but it’s the nature of the game. All records are meant to be broken.

  79. Montana sounds like a guy who has enjoyed being the GOAT for the last 20 years and know’s Brady has surpassed him with 4 rings, 6 Super Bowl trips, and going for more. If the Pats win the Super Bowl, that would make 7 Super Bowl trips for Brady in 14 years as a starter (removing 2000 and 2008). That is INSANE.

    Besides, if it weren’t for Jerry Rice’s STICKUM hands and the 49ers cheating the cap, no one knows if the 49ers would even be relevant.

  80. Somewhere I read a story that Paul Brown had redesigned the team uniforms to have a leather football sized patch sewed on the front so it looked like all 11 players were carrying the ball.

    Next to that deflating a football seems pretty mild. The Brady issue is not the crime, it’s the cover-up. Ask Martha Stewart if she would do things differently if given the chance

  81. jppsblownofffingers says: Oct 16, 2015 10:09 AM

    Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru. Deflategate was BS and was just a make up punishment for spygate. Everybody knows this.
    —————————–
    Except that no walk thru was videotaped. I can’t believe people still think that happened. The newspaper admitted it was wrong, the newspaper printed a retraction and the reporter posted an apology for providing a false story.

  82. It goes on all of the time. Montana is correct and there is a sense of selective prosecution and making a mountain out of a mole hill of deflategate. The NFL already supplied a range of acceptable psi that teams could use. If they wanted a uniform standard ore were really concerned, they would have done something earlier. I don’t know what the Patriots or Tom Brady did or were generally aware of and neither does Roger Goodell or Ted Wells, but spending $5 million on an investigation and filing a suit in federal court wasting taxpayer money is disgusting. The NFL needs to let this one go. If Tom Brady, like his hero Joe, gamed you, live with it and stop whining. You already took a 1st and 4th round pick for something that may or may not have happened. Seriously, that is more than enough and should keep the other 31 happy who believed the Pats got off too easy on Spygate. Let’s not pretend that this was anything more than making up for Spygate and jealousy of four Super Bowl wins and six appearances.

  83. Good job…this story should keep the Pats-whiners from their standard denial/moaning on every other story for a good 10 minutes…

  84. jppsblownofffingers says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:09 AM
    Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru. Deflategate was BS and was just a make up punishment for spygate. Everybody knows this.

    ——–
    Agreed, anyone with a brain knows stickum and silicone are worse. They are the most direct form of cheating in which one can engage.

  85. rollotomasi14 says:

    Except that no walk thru was videotaped. I can’t believe people still think that happened. The newspaper admitted it was wrong, the newspaper printed a retraction and the reporter posted an apology for providing a false story.

    ~~~~~~~

    ^This. But, y’know, people are going to believe what they want to believe and disregard the facts that contradict those beliefs. It’d be comical if it wasn’t so pathetic.

  86. dawgzzxx says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:04 AM
    The Steelers were the biggest CHEATERS of them all, they introduced steroids into the NFL gaining a great advantage over other teams.
    Terry Bradshaw told the ‘Steelers steroids story’ on NFL Fox how they used steroids for a long time.
    But it seems no one in the NFL wants to talk about that…wonder why…
    =======================================
    Denver cheated the salary cap. Which is bigger? Hard to say. The Carolina Super Bowl team (biggest whiners about their loss to the Pats) had much of their O-Line caught as steroid cheaters. How about all of the teams that cheat that don’t win? Is their cheating okay because they lose? Well, there is way too much whining going on. I think it is time that the biggest bunch of whining babies in sports, the Colts get spanked around as a sense of retribution for being poor losers. Oh, they cheated with crowd noise as well at their old stadium and it was caught on video (nobody buys CBS taking the fall for that – NOBODY but diehard Colts fans and Greg Doyel). This beat down is very important. If the Patriots only win by three points, it’s a loss in my eyes.

  87. schwamtek says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:16 AM
    Montana was a pure passer. Brady is a garbage thrower in comparison.

    Montana benefitted from Sticky Rice’s YAC.

    BTW, Lifetime Yards per pass
    Montana 7.5
    Brady 7.5

    Why do people say foolish things when this stuff is sooo easy to look up.

    PS, after this season, Brady will have played more year than Montana as well.

  88. Cheating is cheating. And if somebody is a better “cheater” than another guy, that doesn’t make them a better player or a better teammate. It makes them a cheater. If they’re cheating on the field of play, then you can bet they’re cheating other people in a lot of different ways, including their wives, kids, fans, IRS, personally and professionally, etc. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

    Personally, I’ve seen guys call balls out in tennis which were obviously in. I’ve seen guys that call a foot “in” during rec-ball, when the guy obviously stepped out. He then yells the loudest until he gets his way.

    You know what I call guys like that? Cheaters.

  89. freddsox says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:12 AM
    Somewhere I read a story that Paul Brown had redesigned the team uniforms to have a leather football sized patch sewed on the front so it looked like all 11 players were carrying the ball.

    Next to that deflating a football seems pretty mild. The Brady issue is not the crime, it’s the cover-up. Ask Martha Stewart if she would do things differently if given the chance

    Impossible to cover up that which did not happen.

  90. I was Montana’s #1 fan back in the day, I even switched to Chiefs with him, and my feeling about all the 49ers, Steelers and other team’s improprieties back then is it was just a part of the game. My original thoughts about Brady & PSI was that it was too pathetic to even rate as a “cheat” and that all QBs have their balls done how they like them anyway. But now that we know the damn balls weren’t even deflated beyond what conditions could have caused, the whole thing is a stink and my all time hero big Joe is starting to sound a lttle small and jealous of Brady. SMH.

  91. What a great message to send to the youth!
    If you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying! Brilliant!

    Reality check.
    Anyone else tired of the nonchalant ignorance and unethical culture of the NFL?

    Then again this is coming form a QB that threw to a Jerry Rice that used stickum

  92. key2heat says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:04 AM
    They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.
    ==========
    For ‘crying’ out loud. We get it. The Patriots are the ONLY team in the NFL that uses the pick play. Despite the mountain of evidence that proves otherwise. There’s a reason why it’s flagged. Move on already.

  93. jppsblownofffingers says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:09 AM
    Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru. Deflategate was BS and was just a make up punishment for spygate. Everybody knows this.

    ___________________

    Actually, what everybody knows is that no walk through was taped. You should really do some homework on a subject before you post about it.

    But you’re right, Deflategate was BS.

  94. If the NFL was serious about cheating, then they would implement on -air metrics for a few things, including: PSI of the ball in play, Humidity, Temperature and Wind speed of field conditions.
    BUT THEY DONT CARE! Referees, determine more outcomes in today;s NFL than players, cut corners.., etc. T

  95. I’m wsad to say that I now hold him in lower regard. Society should look to brains and integrity for it’s role models and not cheaters.

  96. weepingjebus says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:12 AM
    Between his total inability to understand that Deflategate is based on confirmed lies cooked up by anti-science morons in the league office and his confirmed participation in extensive headset and stickum cheating, I have lost all respect for Montana. Like everyone else, he tried to tangle with Brady and instead ended up face down in the mud. Maybe he can find Goodell while he’s down there.
    ————————————————-

    “Confirmed lies”? Confirmed by whom? Patriots fans? Because outside New England, nobody else believes they’re lies. Here’s the basic problem — Patriots fans start out with an invalid conclusion and work from there.

    “Science expert” Patriots fans are the same anti-technical MORONS who turn around and swallow the NFL’s technically UN-supported excuse that a totally encrypted digitally-based communications system could fail due to weather conditions, as it did opening night in Foxborough. Suddenly all you junior scientists turn all stupid when it suits your purposes. So please, spare us another Ideal Gas Law lecture.

    Does science prove that the Deflator nickname refers to weight loss, Einstein?

  97. Its a shame with Montana and the drinking issues. Sometimes people should not say anything because they just look very silly and foolish and any player that equates cheating to playing and trying hard is a very sad person trying to find relevancy in the media when they no longer have any. Brady is a cheater and Montana is a man with a problem who needs to spend more time working on that than opining on how cheating is ok and sending that message to our kids.

  98. Cheating should NEVER be an accepted part of the game. Only CHEATERS say “Everyone is doing it.” The fact is, everyone doesn’t do it. Some compete their asses off — WITHIN THE RULES.

    “If you’re not cheating, you’re not trying” – is both bullcrap, and the mantra of a CHEATER.

  99. Wow, Patriot fans are so butt-hurt over their team being caught cheating all of the time they can’t even take a compliment from the true G.O.A.T.

  100. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM
    The difference is it’s not Brady using stickum, it’s cheating on an institutional level.

    Kraft has admitted to it, twice.

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.
    ================
    Fines and forfeited picks for …

    1) Filming signals in an illegal location (understanding that the act of stealing and filming signals is 100% legal).
    2) Ball deflation (based solely on a single text and a colossal leap of faith). Which is arguably no greater an offense than what Montana just went off about.

    Institutional level of cheating. LMAO.

  101. thebirdofprey2 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:26 AM

    Face it Patriot fans, the NFL looks at you as cheaters for a reason and it has nothing to do with jealously.
    _______________________________

    Good grief, what an astonishingly obtuse post.

    Face it? LOL

    We have lived it for 10 months.

    As if we are somehow unaware that the NFL views the Pats (I assume you mean them and not “us”) as cheaters. The NFL launched a multimillion dollar investigation that found no evidence of cheating but still levied the biggest sanction in history. They falsified information, lied to the media, mischaracterized sworn testimony, set up a kangaroo court and suspended TB for 4 games. They then brought their “case” to Federal court and were exposed as liars. Then they appealed.

    Take a nap guy, you need a rest.

  102. interesting to see so many think they are the ultimate judge of what does and does not constitute cheating, and yet there are so many variations.

    what a joke.

  103. There will be a whole lot of cheating going on in a month or two in all cold weather stadiums. Every ball will be “deflated” for every team playing in freezing conditions. It’s called science and there is nothing you can do about it. Ted Wells is going to be very very busy. Go get em Roger. NFL = No Integrity

  104. I hope the cheaters go 18-0 again. I also hope my Giants go 9-7 again and let history repeat itself. lol

  105. briangraydon says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:33 AM
    They only people who think Brady is better than Montana are people under 30. And when Montana won Super Bowls there was no salary cap. Stop crying babies.

    Not sure where you were headed with this non-sequitor but as a 60 year old I saw every 9ers game that was televised as well as watching him with KC. It’s not truly a question of who was better. The stats will bear that out once Brady hangs up the cleats.

    Montana played in a non cap era so he had a core of players that didn’t change as often as did/does Brady’s mates. Joe had 3 10 win seasons as has Brady so neither are invincible.

    Brady has proven he can succeed during the season no matter who they put around him.

    We’re debating the difference between $1million and $1million and one.

  106. “So please, spare us another Ideal Gas Law lecture.”

    Because we believe what we believe and we don’t need no facts to back it up!

    Brady’s performance will go in the crapper once he starts using “proper” equipment!

    The pats running backs fumbling rate will skyrocket once they start using “proper” equipment!

    It was illegal to film where the pats did before 2007 even though there wasn’t a rule against it before 2007 because I want to believe it!

    It truly is better to stick with “they cheat” when asked for proof that the pats did, you look less like a fool that way. This guy gets that at least.

  107. Why even defend cheating pats fans?

    It’s obviously worth it. I would take the punishments the pats received so far any day if it meant trophies in the mantle.

  108. daytonaken says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:47 AM
    What happened to sportsmanship? What does that say about us? What does that do to our kids? Should all PED’s be legal?


    Did you really believe it was ever any different, in any competition at any level?

    Anyone who tells you different is a liar. Anyone who actually played any organized sport know the truth.

  109. Ever person has a right to an opinion.

    Either go with the flow of former players, media pundits, and former players who have morphed into media pundits. It’s a never-ending stream of speculation and historical precedent. Much of it is downright amusing.

    Or simply look at Brady’s performance during his last 22 quarters of football when he played under the League’s extreme scrutiny of PSI control and compare it to his performance when he was allegedly using footballs tailored to his highly illegal PSI specifications.

  110. rollotomasi14 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:24 AM
    Montana can’t be GOAT. He has a losing road record in the postseason. Can’t be GOAT with that.
    *********************************************
    Says you. Being the Super Bowl is the ultimate prize, his 4-0 record trumps Bradys all day long. Not to mention Montana played in an era where QB’s were allowed to be hit. Regularly.

  111. Be sure to wear your tear-stained “FREE BRADY” shirts when Lance Armstrong introduces Brady at the HOF ceremony. Afterward you can all toast marshmallows over a spygate tape bonfire!

  112. A quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated by 2 psi,

    WHICH IS WHAT MORT FALSELY CLAIMED,

    but…

    No quarterback on Earth can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated in the range of 0.0-0.2 psi, which was REALITY in the AFCCG.

    It’s a VERY important distinction that ought to be obvious.

  113. A quarterback can tell if the ball has been tampered with – this theory was tested by brunell, brees and montana assuming it was 2 PSI below. We know it wasnt the case. But lets ignore the details and smear brady.

  114. In comes all the patriot fanboys crying about the patriots innocence. If Brad-She had nothing to hide, why destroy the cell phone? So he found a loophole and cheated the law … Kudos on the ethics

  115. hdahs143 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:50 AM
    rollotomasi14 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:24 AM
    Montana can’t be GOAT. He has a losing road record in the postseason. Can’t be GOAT with that.
    *********************************************
    Says you. Being the Super Bowl is the ultimate prize, his 4-0 record trumps Bradys all day long. Not to mention Montana played in an era where QB’s were allowed to be hit. Regularly.

    Missed the Pats/Dallas game I see. Joe only made it to 4 Super Bowls? Guess we’ll never know how he would have made out if he had been good enough to get to 6.

  116. “Montana has said in the past that a quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated”

    I have been a fan since 1960. Never once Have I heard a QB say after a cold weather game that the balls felt under-inflated, despite it being a scientific fact that they were. What the QBs often said was that the balls were cold and hard and not as easy to grip.

    Brady and the Patriots are destroying the cheater myth every time they take the field but the media can’t put it to bed so they keep reporting stories like this one.

  117. I have an Idea. Why don’t we make 32 Lombardi Trophy’s so the Jets, Colts and Ravens can all get their trophy’s too.

    Everything is awesome when you are part of a team!!

  118. jimmyt says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:40 AM
    Wow, Patriot fans are so butt-hurt over their team being caught cheating all of the time they can’t even take a compliment from the true G.O.A.T.

    I cheated and so did you.

    You call that a compliment?

  119. I think Brady was just trying too hard to catch up with Joe’s super bowl wins. That’s what Brady’s competing against. He wants to be considered the best QB of all time. He’ll be number one in the New England area, but the cheating thing will knock him down in most other people’s eyes. Barry Bonds could have hit a million home runs, but outside of San Francisco, he’s not considered legit. Funny that Bonds and Brady went to the same high school. Both guys are legit HOFers, but will never get the recognition because of cheating.

  120. daytontriangles says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:59 AM
    Montana has said in the past that a quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated
    _____________________________

    You know what else a quarterback can tell? When the game ball is getting all tacky from the stickum on their #1 receiver’s hands.

    ——-

    Not only the QB, but the officials as well after each play.

  121. At LEAST 90% of the guys out there are on artificial enhancements. Anyone who doesn’t grasp that isn’t paying attention. Baseball went through its “dirty” era (and by the looks of it, guys are getting that Canseco/McGwire body type is making a comeback) but football has ALWAYS been about enhancement. It’s hilarious to me that there’s so much that has gone on about the ball deflation when there’s obviously so much “juice” flowing, long term brain damage, and refs who can’t hope to apply foot thick rule book. Letting a little air out of balls is so minimal of a problem it’s funny. And, likely, that’s exactly why it is a big deal – it keeps the eyes off the real shady aspects of the product that is the NFL. People go on about the minnows and the whales get a free pass.

  122. RegisHawk says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:16 AM
    Good job…this story should keep the Pats-whiners from their standard denial/moaning on every other story for a good 10 minutes…

    At least now the question of when trolls in the Northwest wake up has been answered.

  123. hdahs143 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:50 AM

    rollotomasi14 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:24 AM
    Montana can’t be GOAT. He has a losing road record in the postseason. Can’t be GOAT with that.
    *********************************************
    Says you. Being the Super Bowl is the ultimate prize, his 4-0 record trumps Bradys all day long. Not to mention Montana played in an era where QB’s were allowed to be hit. Regularly

    ——

    The Super Bowl is in fact the ultimate prize. And Brady has the combination of winning it/being closer more than any other QB.

    In the 13 seasons Brady has been the Patriots primary QB, he won 4 SBs (31% of his seasons), played in 6 SBs by winning 6 AFCC games (46%), and played in 9 AFFC games (69%).

    So by the “Super Bowl is the ultimate prize” standard, not only has Brady won as many, he got closer to a lot more.

    I don’t see how losing a Super Bowl is less positive than not even getting there.

  124. tonebones says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:04 AM
    I think Brady was just trying too hard to catch up with Joe’s super bowl wins. That’s what Brady’s competing against. He wants to be considered the best QB of all time. He’ll be number one in the New England area, but the cheating thing will knock him down in most other people’s eyes. Barry Bonds could have hit a million home runs, but outside of San Francisco, he’s not considered legit. Funny that Bonds and Brady went to the same high school. Both guys are legit HOFers, but will never get the recognition because of cheating.

    —-
    Pretty sure Brady won’t lose sleep over lack of recognition from y’all. despite your inflated ego, the rest of the world knows the truth.

  125. Only Patriot players would every take PEDs. Nobody on the Raves, Colts, Jets and every other team the hates the patriots would never stoop to that level.

  126. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM

    The difference is it’s not Brady using stickum, it’s cheating on an institutional level.

    Kraft has admitted to it, twice.

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.

    ——-

    funny…..you used to say “check the fumbles”

  127. For those who have trouble with math, and/or honesty, Montana was 14-5 in playoffs with S.F., including 4-0 in super bowls. 16-7 including years with K.C.

  128. patsfan1960 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:07 AM

    Joe you are a moron
    ————-
    Step out of your fishbowl fool. Montana was and always WILL BE the best QB in NFL history.

  129. stellarperformance says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:27 AM

    Cheating is cheating. And if somebody is a better “cheater” than another guy, that doesn’t make them a better player or a better teammate. It makes them a cheater. If they’re cheating on the field of play, then you can bet they’re cheating other people in a lot of different ways, including their wives, kids, fans, IRS, personally and professionally, etc. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

    Personally, I’ve seen guys call balls out in tennis which were obviously in. I’ve seen guys that call a foot “in” during rec-ball, when the guy obviously stepped out. He then yells the loudest until he gets his way.

    You know what I call guys like that? Cheaters.

    ————

    Speeding isn’t the same as murder. Asking another student for an answer on a test in the 5th grade isn’t the same as plagiarizing a masters thesis. All lies aren’t the same either. Things aren’t so binary in this world. Although people want to believe there is true integrity and people shouldn’t cheat, that isn’t real, especially when millions of dollars are at stake. I would say many NFL athletes try their best to play within the rules, but are happy to get away with an extra hold, maul someone under the pile, take PEDs once or twice in their career, etc. The saying goes that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Well I think most people live in glass houses.

  130. Brady’s a cheater, deal with it and move on Patriots fans. Montana’s right. And certainly, the Patriots aren’t the only team in sports that ever cheated. But it’s important to draw a distinction here.

    Saying something is “cheating” when it’s not illegal and everyone has equal access to it is different than breaking a RULE that says you can’t do something, because then not everyone has equal access to it and someone draws an illegal competitive ADVANTAGE. Saying the use of steroids is “cheating” back when there was no rule against it and everyone did it (beginning in ’63 with San Diego) is ridiculous. Same thing with stickum, back when it wasn’t outlawed yet and everyone did it. Now when these things are OUTLAWED, as steroids were in the late ’80s, then their use DOES become cheating. Same with stickum or anything else.

    But when you BREAK A RULE about videotaping or deflating footballs, something that your opponent DOESN’T have equal access to, then that IS cheating. Cheating is all about unequal access and the advantage gained when you do something others can’t. It’s that simple.

  131. Love Joe. But he just looks so uncomfortable on TV. I don’t know if there has ever been a more cringe worthy ex athlete of his caliber on set. He talks like someone is tickling him the entire time.

  132. Offensive linemen holding, and trying to hide it from the refs, is cheating. Same with DBs. And WRs pushing off. And pick plays. Anytime you attempt to circumvent the rules you are cheating. Yes, everybody does it.

  133. gr365 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:43 AM

    Brady> Montana by any meaure. Wins, TD’s SB MVP-tied…. Niners Glory Days have long since passed.
    ————–
    Put that pipe down NOW!!!

  134. nolasoxfan2012 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:03 AM

    It’s just awesome how the NFL has totally smeared Brady’s reputation without any actual evidence. Total integrity and stuff.
    —————————————–
    Funny how circumstantial evidence is enough to convict someone of murder but not Brady of knowing about the deflated footballs or Spygate.

    Who are you guys kidding? You’re probably one of those who thought Lance Armstrong won 7 TDFs with hard work too.

    Give it a rest. The Patriots are cheaters! Yes, that includes Tom Brady!

  135. Seems to me most posters still believe Mortensen ‘s erroneous PSI levels! It was 0.02 PSI !!
    Anyone living in a cold weather climate knows that tires deflate !!!!!!

  136. randomguy9999 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:07 AM

    well, things change Joe. the NFL should come down hard every single time any type of cheating is found.

    The cheating stinks.

    At least he admitted that the pats are a bunch of big time cheaters.

    asterisk
    ———————————

    Joe only admitted that the 49ers were a bunch a cheaters. He just assumes that the Patriots are also, since he also assumes every other team cheats.

  137. I’m gonna need to see the proffered of cheating here. Not even a Pats fan, just a football fan. Fines, suspensions and the theft of draft picks w it h out proof… well we should all be concerned. If 8th can happen to them, it can happen to your team. If you want to hate the Pats that is your right, but to just ignorantly swallow this crap the league is spitting out just shows what sheep you are, and how little you actually paid attention to the investigation. Willfully ignorant is no way to go through life, son.

  138. The 49ers circumvented the salary cap back in 1994, and were fined by the league.

    Joe knows cheaters.

    And Joe and the entire country know, that when it comes to cheating in the NFL today, everybody’s looking at New England.

  139. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:15 AM
    Brady’s a cheater, deal with it and move on Patriots fans. Montana’s right. And certainly, the Patriots aren’t the only team in sports that ever cheated. But it’s important to draw a distinction here.

    Saying something is “cheating” when it’s not illegal and everyone has equal access to it is different than breaking a RULE that says you can’t do something, because then not everyone has equal access to it and someone draws an illegal competitive ADVANTAGE. Saying the use of steroids is “cheating” back when there was no rule against it and everyone did it (beginning in ’63 with San Diego) is ridiculous. Same thing with stickum, back when it wasn’t outlawed yet and everyone did it. Now when these things are OUTLAWED, as steroids were in the late ’80s, then their use DOES become cheating. Same with stickum or anything else.

    But when you BREAK A RULE about videotaping or deflating footballs, something that your opponent DOESN’T have equal access to, then that IS cheating. Cheating is all about unequal access and the advantage gained when you do something others can’t. It’s that simple.

    ——————-
    So then you must agree that since there was no rule against video taping opponent’s signals back when the Patriots won their first three SBs then one could hardly claim the Patriots were cheating in those years. Moreover, it is still not cheating to videotape opponents signals….the only rule the Patriots broke was from where it was done on the field.

    As for deflation of footballs, the NFL already admitted to judge Berman that is has zero evidence that this took place….let alone that Brady was involved.

    So what is all this “Cheating” about which you are ranting?

  140. So you admit that videotaping was perfectly legal before 2007 because there wasn’t a rule against it before then and that the nfl supension of brady was overturned because a federal judge found the report that nfl used to prove he cheated was so flawed that he had no other alternative?

    We are good then.

    Btw, sticum WAS banned by the nfl before rice began using it.


  141. cinzano08 says:

    Joe, don’t forget Walsh messing with parcels headsets during the first 15 scripted plays which was a competitive advantage for them. It’s on NFL films and you can clearly hear parcels telling Walsh to not do that again.

    Glad you brought this up, because it shows how the Pats are different when it comes to cheating. When Parcells confronted Walsh about the headsets, Walsh winked, said “just a little gamesmanship”, and stopped his little headset gambit. With Spygate, Mangini apparently reached out to Belichick in a similar manner to tell him not to do the illegal videotaping, and Belichick continued to do it anyway (also ignoring a recent reminder letter from the league on the topic).

    Unlike the Walsh scenario you brought up, the Patriots stubbornly and arrogantly will continue to break the rules, like it’s their god-given right, until the matter escalates to a degree that can’t be ignored – basically banking on the belief that the league doesn’t want to cause a big spectacle (see also: running pick plays constantly because refs don’t want to throw a flag on every pass play).

    So, don’t blame the NFL for blowing the Patriot cheating scandals out of proportion when a simple wink and an admission of gamesmanship could have nipped them in the bud before they became “-gates”.

  142. Pats fans are pathetic….No judge said that Brady was innocent. He just said the NFl overstepped its boundaries of punishment.

    Brady cheated. You all know it.

    Mysteriously, the equipment guys have disappeared, been paid off, and remain silent. If Brady was innocent they would have come forward and exonerated him

    The Pats accepted HUGE penalties without argument

  143. LOL. Oh my, I love watching acrobatics with my morning coffee.

    Just look at all the haters contorting themselves to try and draw a distinction between The Great Joe Montana flat out admitting that he and all of his teammates cheated during the 49ers glory years, and Brady being accused of ‘general awareness’ that a tiny bit of air may have been let out of a few footballs.

    *takes sip*. Yum.

    I’ll tell you what, let’s put together a couple of football teams, I’ll let you inflate your footballs to whatever psi you want, but you have to let my guys spray silicone on their shirts, and my receivers spray Stickum on their hands (just like the 49ers).

    We’ll quickly find out who actually gained an advantage.

  144. Montana had 2 super bowl winning seasons 1981 (16-3) and 1984 (18-1), before they drafted Rice. He was doing fine with free agents like Freddie Solomon and Mike Wilson, and 10th round pick Dwight Clark. Rice dropped a million passes during his first three seasons, and so I don’t blame him for getting a little help. So maybe compare Rice and Brady, but Montana certainly didn’t need any help from cheating, or from Rice.

  145. steelcurtainn says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:21 AM

    I’ll give Joe Montana his props. Best qb to ever play the game and I’m a steeler fan.
    ——————————————————
    Figures a fan of the notorious cheatin Steelers would endorse the notorious cheatin QB of the cheatin 49ers. The 9ers never eliminated the Steelers so these brothers in cheating are okay with what they did. Now NE has eliminated the Steelers a few times so of course it makes sense now. I remember when I respected both the 9ers and the Steelers but the hypocrisy of both franchises and their fans is sickening.

  146. Every time Joe speaks he removes himself further from relevance. It’s absolutely incredible how completely obsessed people are with the Patriots.

  147. The “you ain’t cheatin'” phrase came from NASCAR.
    Gary Nelson (who was Rusty Wallace’s crew chief) so mastered the art of cheating that NASCAR hired him as a chief inspector of all vehicles. It’s only cheating if your caught.
    The Pats may have cheated, but the NFL didn’t know who too blame because they didn’t have the procedures in place. The Pats could have been made to play with a beach ball that day and still rolled Indy.
    I hate the Patriots, but it’s only out of respect.

  148. Yup, the nfl would never blow anything like “spygate” or “deflategate” out of proportion because they would try to avoid a ” big scandal” at all costs.

    Thanks for clearing that up for the rest of us, much appreciated!

  149. Deflategate was an overblown, overreaction to the previous known instances of cheating that are organizational in nature. The reason you didn’t hear ANY other owners coming to Kraft’s defense is because they were all on the side of Goodell. Sorry Pats fans, but Spygate actually happened. Once you are caught red handed cheating, every minor “deviation from the rule” will forever be considered willful and, therefore, a continuance of your cheatin’ ways.

    The Pats cheat to win. It is known.

  150. cornerstone2001 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:37 AM

    Pats fans are pathetic….No judge said that Brady was innocent. He just said the NFl overstepped its boundaries of punishment.

    Brady cheated. You all know it.

    Mysteriously, the equipment guys have disappeared, been paid off, and remain silent. If Brady was innocent they would have come forward and exonerated him

    The Pats accepted HUGE penalties without argument
    ————————————————–
    This is the perfect example of the ill informed morons who know nothing of which they speak. A judge didn’t have to say Brady didn’t cheat, science did plain and simple. What the judge did say was that the NFL screwed up the process so bad he didn’t even bother ruling on if they were right or wrong about Brady being innocent but he did reserve the right to rule on that if the case ever came back to him.
    The ball boys are back working for the Patriots, do please try and keep up.
    Kraft didn’t accept the ruling of the league, thought they were wrong. But he had no choice but to accept the penalties. As a Pats fan that’s my biggest regret on all this crap. Kraft should have sued that sorry organization for all he could.

  151. (see also: running pick plays constantly because refs don’t want to throw a flag on every pass play).


    The lack of understanding of the game of football is astonishing. Even more so, those who have no clue feel it’s their god given right to an opinion.

  152. key2heat says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:04 AM
    They are cheating in the wide open for all to see. With PICK PLAYS over and over. The refs are chicken to call the penalty every pass play.

    Key2heat…

    Please watch SB 49 again … Seattle Doug Baldwin picks Revis to score TD

    And wasn’t it a pick play went bad (thanks to Butler and maybe more so Brandon Browner on the last play.

    And don’t they are not… a pick is a pick is a pick !!!

    Pretty selective on your part

  153. I don’t get how the Patriots are cheating.

    They’ve never done anything as outrageous as Montana is admitting to.

    You have Spygate, which was only a big deal because the media made it one. More about camera placement than anything. They took their punishment and moved on.

    What have they done since that has been proven? All I’ve heard is accusations by anonymous sore losers.

    Sorry Joe, Brady never cheated on your level, and he’s the best quarterback ever.

  154. I am very disappointed in Joe Montana…He has a dog in this fight, so he ought to stay out of it, not try to smear Brady’s good name.

  155. Sorry to see HOF QB being insecure about his own legacy due to Brady being labeled the G.O.A.T.

    Remember Joe, people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, it’s common knowledge that your HOF receiver used stickum.

    Just Saying

  156. Not surprising, considering in a book I have by Bill Walsh he admits that they used to turn off the visiting team’s headsets at critical moments on purpose all the time.

    Terry Bradshaw admitted in his autobiography that they used to deflate the balls all the time – and this was written well before deflategate became The Greatest Sin Perpetrated by Man in All of History.

    Is it “cheating”? Is it “gamesmanship”? Well, we’d all like the game to be played honestly, I think. But there’s so much money at stake, teams – ALL TEAMS – bend the rules when they can.

  157. tonebones says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:42 AM
    Montana had 2 super bowl winning seasons 1981 (16-3) and 1984 (18-1), before they drafted Rice. He was doing fine with free agents like Freddie Solomon and Mike Wilson, and 10th round pick Dwight Clark. Rice dropped a million passes during his first three seasons, and so I don’t blame him for getting a little help. So maybe compare Rice and Brady, but Montana certainly didn’t need any help from cheating, or from Rice.


    Gotta love this stuff. You won’t even agree with Montana when he admits to cheating.

    Getting a little help? Disingenuous, table of one….

  158. cornerstone2001 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:37 AM

    Pats fans are pathetic….No judge said that Brady was innocent. He just said the NFl overstepped its boundaries of punishment.

    Brady cheated. You all know it.

    Mysteriously, the equipment guys have disappeared, been paid off, and remain silent. If Brady was innocent they would have come forward and exonerated him

    The Pats accepted HUGE penalties without argument

    ———–

    First, it was not the judge’s job to declare Brady innocent nor guilty of participating in a deflation scheme. But then, he also didn’t need to. The NFL’s lawyer admitted they has no evidence of Brady doing ANYTHING.

    Second, the judge wrote in his decision that Goodell could not apply his “own brand of industrial justice”.

    Third……where were you when Kraft was complaining about the punishment the NFL hit the Patriots with? To say the Patriots accepted HUGE penalties without argument is not only ridiculous, but it also shows the lengths you’ll go to in manipulating the facts in order to attempt to make a persuasive argument. What a joke.

  159. tonebones says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:42 AM
    Montana had 2 super bowl winning seasons 1981 (16-3) and 1984 (18-1), before they drafted Rice. He was doing fine with free agents like Freddie Solomon and Mike Wilson, and 10th round pick Dwight Clark. Rice dropped a million passes during his first three seasons, and so I don’t blame him for getting a little help. So maybe compare Rice and Brady, but Montana certainly didn’t need any help from cheating, or from Rice.

    So even when Joe admits cheating you think you know better?

    Priceless

  160. “Mysteriously, the equipment guys have disappeared, been paid off, and remain silent. If Brady was innocent they would have come forward and exonerated him”

    This very easily demonstrates how utterly misinformed you are and makes it even easier to toss aside anything else you have to say.

    The equipment guys were reinstated and are both back at work, genius.

  161. Saying the use of steroids is “cheating” back when there was no rule against it


    As usual Steeler fan defends their team’s cheating by this disingenuous logic.

    Steroids were only legal at the time from a valid prescription from a doctor for a valid medical reason.

    That is not what the Steelers did. They ABUSED steroids to get a competitive advantage on the field. Abuse of any prescription drugs was never legal in the USA.

    They broke the law, hence they were cheats and their titles are tainted by cheating.

    Opinion? Nope, facts. 🙂

  162. afwhigs says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:09 PM
    Not surprising, considering in a book I have by Bill Walsh he admits that they used to turn off the visiting team’s headsets at critical moments on purpose all the time.

    Terry Bradshaw admitted in his autobiography that they used to deflate the balls all the time – and this was written well before deflategate became The Greatest Sin Perpetrated by Man in All of History.

    Is it “cheating”? Is it “gamesmanship”? Well, we’d all like the game to be played honestly, I think. But there’s so much money at stake, teams – ALL TEAMS – bend the rules when they can.

    Face it, there’s cheating from the fist time a kid rolls the dice in Candyland.

    I seriously wonder what land of Unicorns some people think we live in?

  163. dansardo says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:29 AM
    So you admit that videotaping was perfectly legal before 2007 because there wasn’t a rule against it before then and that the nfl supension of brady was overturned because a federal judge found the report that nfl used to prove he cheated was so flawed that he had no other alternative?

    We are good then.
    —————————————-

    No we are NOT. You know it’s hilarious, for all the lecturing you characters do about “you don’t understand Spygate!” it’s PATRIOTS FANS who actually don’t understand what happened. Oh the irony!

    First of all, the famous memo that went around warning teams about prohibited taping was sent in 2006, and it was a REMINDER — the rule had actually been in effect BEFORE then. Second of all, it was sent primarily because one team (I’ll give you one guess which) was ticking off the rest of the league playing fast and loose with it. So there WAS a rule against it in effect before 2007.

    And secondly, you’re wrong AGAIN on the Deflategate count… the judge’s ruling was about Goodell and how he handled things. It was NOT any judgement on whether or not Brady had actually committed the acts claimed. It was NOT about “flawed reports” it was about his interpretation of Goodell’s powers. This is simply the MYTH you’ve all created in your minds, trying to equate the judge’s ruling on Goodell with a declaration of Tom Brady’s innocence.

    The Patriots broke the Spygate rule as you admitted, so it’s case closed. It was cheating, because it violated rules and created for them an unfair advantage (because others were forbidden to do it). That’s different than steroids being used back when they were accepted, or stickum being used back when it was accepted. If Rice did use stickum AFTER it had been banned, then that’s different. But not guys like Biletnikoff who did it in the ’70s before it was banned. NOW do you see my point?

    And I never said Brady DID or DIDN’T do what was claimed in Deflategate, I don’t know. But the thing is, I don’t PRETEND to know unlike you characters. The fact is, you have no more idea whether Brady did it or didn’t do it, any more than I do. You simply pretend that you do.

    Using steroids in the 1960s wasn’t cheating. Using stickum in the 1970s wasn’t cheating. Because both were commonly accepted and both had no rules against their use. Spygate on the other hand is a completely different case. You guys should both write for that phony “yourteamcheats” site that pretends it’s not actually the work of Patriots fans.

  164. Patriots went 11-5 with Matt freakin’ Cassell at QB when Brady went down. Just shows he’s totally overrated, and the only time he should be mentioned as GOAT is as the “Deflators” so called diet coach.

  165. “A quarterback can tell when he picks up a football if it’s underinflated by 2 psi”

    I, for one, have to question this.

    If I gave Joe Montana a random football and asked him to tell me if he thought it was under/over the regulated pressure, and if so, approximately by how much, he’d likely say it felt fine… that’s because he has nothing IMMEDIATELY AVAILABLE to compare it to.

    Now, give him a football and tell him that it’s inflated to 12.5 PSI, the minimum of the accepted range, and have him feel it out… and THEN give him the under-inflated football, and he’ll probably be able to tell you it’s inflated at a lower PSI level; I find it hard to believe, however, that he’d be able to consistently approximate the difference in pressure. He’s not a pressure valve; the only way he can “measure” the PSI is based on past experiences which allow him to approximate.

    Now, is it really that hard to believe that Brady wouldn’t notice a ball is deflated by up to 2 PSI, if it’s in the middle of a game in which the entire defense is focused on trying to stop him? I’m sure the man had other things on his mind…

  166. ricardorobertasq says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:17 AM
    This has been an issue with the whole deflategate. One minute, the defense is they didn’t do it, then they change it to everyone does it and it’s no big deal. Which is it? Did they do it and it shouldn’t matter because everyone does it or they never did it?
    ————————————————————–

    Look, I’m not a Pats fan, but you’re confusing two different things. There actually is NO evidence to support that they purposely deflated footballs – just a lot of conjecture and jumping to conclusions based on a guy’s nickname and Wells and the NFL front office arriving at their own, predetermined outcome.

    The reason “everybody does it” comes up is that Patriots supporters – and those who don’t necessarily support them but thing deflategate is/was an overblown sham built on nothing – is because so many of the vocal hates like to pretend that the Patriots are the only team in the NFL that (allegedly) bends the rules. They’re not. So, when other teams are accused of cheating it makes the news for a week or two. When the Pats are accused of cheating it goes on for months, and people come out of the woodwork to pile on with baseless accusations.

    That’s how that works.

  167. redrew says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:25 AM

    The Great 49’ers:
    WRs used stickum….CHEATING
    Linemen used silicone….CHEATING
    Owner paid players off the books….CHEATING
    Coaches tampered with Headsets….CHEATING
    Result: Celebrated as league’s greatest dynasty.

    Then there is New England:
    Taped signals (like every team did) but stood in wrong box on sidelines……..Vilified
    PSI found 0.2 below Ideal Gas Law calculation though original PSI never recorded…….Vilified.
    NFL admits no evidence against Brady…..still vilified

    In the meantime, Goodell and the Greedy 32 have thrust a massively lucrative gambling operation upon America and its youth………$$$$$…….Shield still intact.

    Owners….please fire Goodell, Pash, Vincent….and end our national nightmare now!
    Congress……..let’s try protecting the every day citizen for a change and not Goodell’s Billionaires’ Club.
    ———–
    First I heard of the video taping of signals was “Vilified”. Some of you NE Patriots really are delusional.

  168. Using steroids in the 1960s wasn’t cheating.

    “What I did was wrong”
    —Terry Bradshaw talking about his steroid abuse

    An odd thing to say about a supposedly “legal” activity, yes? 🙂

  169. my buddy always boasted about his patriots and brady. i told them:
    “of all the championships the patriots won, they always surrounded with controversies. explain that?”

    that shut him up pretty good.

  170. “First of all, the famous memo that went around warning teams about prohibited taping was sent in 2006, and it was a REMINDER — the rule had actually been in effect BEFORE then.”

    No it wasn’t, and it STILL isn’t. Show me the rule. Refer to the EXACT section of the rule… which shouldn’t be too hard since, like you said, the NFL sent out a memo to detail the rule change; right?

    A memo, or a memorandum, simply details changes for the point of emphasis and ease of recollection for all parties (in which the change effects) involved. As an electrical engineer, I write memos almost daily, and they’re usually a paragraph at most, as they simply allude to the ACTUAL CHANGES. They don’t just vaguely do so either, they SPECIFICALLY and DELIBERATELY refer to these changes.

    For example, if I write up what is called an “Electrical Narrative” (basically a fancy term for a collection of memos), it refers to the EXACT CHANGE I’m detailing on the EXACT blueprint drawing sheet; i.e., “Backup generator located in Garage Electrical Room on sheet E2.01 upgraded from 15kW rating to 50kW rating to accommodate new power demands due to increased heating load”.

    You can see above that you would succinctly know WHERE the changes were made, WHY the changes were made, and HOW the changes were made. Then you can go to the actual changes themselves (on sheet E2.01) to get more complete information. The memo is simply meant to draw your attention to the actual changes themselves; they’re not meant to be the changes.

    Now tell me, what rule change did that memo refer to? Where in the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL was there a rule changed to effect the change in policy detailed by the 2006 memo?

    The entire reason Bill even continued to record the signals from the sideline was BECAUSE there was no rule change in the Constitution and Bylaws. His defense was that the ACTUAL RULEBOOK itself takes precedent over a memo that holds no real authority with regards to game day operations.

  171. To me, deflated footballs was a never a big deal. Recording other teams walkthroughs is a big deal. I don’t care how many championships Brady wins, Joe is the GOAT.

  172. “The Patriots broke the Spygate rule as you admitted, so it’s case closed. It was cheating, because it violated rules and created for them an unfair advantage (because others were forbidden to do it). That’s different than steroids being used back when they were accepted, or stickum being used back when it was accepted.”

    So, according to your definition of cheating, which seems to read as:

    “An action which contradicts agreed upon written rules which inherently derives an unfair advantage”

    Then the Patriots didn’t cheat during spygate either…. right? I mean, the change in policy (note: NOT “rule change”) went into effect prior to the start of the ’07 season, and the patriots got caught in the first quarter of the first game of that season… so there was no advantage to be derived from that recording, right?

    So technically, the Patriots didn’t even “cheat” yet, right? The NFL stepped in and PREVENTED any cheating… right?

  173. ampats hypocrite

    It was NOT about “flawed reports” it was about his interpretation of Goodell’s powers. This is simply the MYTH you’ve all created in your minds, trying to equate the judge’s ruling on Goodell with a declaration of Tom Brady’s innocence.
    ==============================

    first let me commend you on a well written post.

    However, let me ask you this, although the judge specifically ruled to vacate the suspension based on the way the NFL handled the disciplinary action, the judge did provide some overt admonishment to the NFL’s flawed method of determining Brady’s guilt, specifically noting as, “independent” Well’s report.

    You must also recall the judge’s direct question, do you have any evidence…?

    No, we do not.

  174. Can’t wait to see all the December footballs that measure 10-11 psi at halftime. Every team has the ability to know this answer for themselves… But they can’t handle the truth.

  175. Montana was just like Brady — a very well protected quarterback who benefitted greatly from a smart coach who designed a system that allowed him to get rid of the ball quickly and never get hit. Good passer and cool under pressure, just like The Great Crybaby, but overrated because of stats. Trophies come from good teams, not just an overly praised quarterback.

  176. I hate the Patriots and I will continue to hate them at least until they start losing again. But I agree 100% with Montana. The game was more fun and had more personality in the 70s when you didn’t have an anal NFL league office purporting falsely that they can stage an absolutely fair (and completely bland) contest every game, every week. Frankly, for the NFL to justify cracking down on teams for trivial things like deflating footballs or piping in crowd noise is a little bit ridiculous when they (1) keep tinkering with the rules to the detriment of teams with a history / tradition of running the ball or playing tough defense and (2) cannot create a rule defining what is a catch that is logical and objectively enforceable, and (3) cannot even competently officiate the rules they have.

  177. Montana said in an interview with Andrew Siciliano on NFL Network that cheating is part of the game of football, and that finding any edge is what makes players and teams great
    ~~~~~~~~~
    No. Cheating is doing things that are by definition NOT part of the game of football. If you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying is one of the most unethical mindsets in competitive sports. I don’t understand how it is accepted if not expected by so many people.

  178. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:15 AM

    Brady’s a cheater, deal with it and move on Patriots fans. Montana’s right. And certainly, the Patriots aren’t the only team in sports that ever cheated. But it’s important to draw a distinction here.

    Saying something is “cheating” when it’s not illegal and everyone has equal access to it is different than breaking a RULE that says you can’t do something, because then not everyone has equal access to it and someone draws an illegal competitive ADVANTAGE. Saying the use of steroids is “cheating” back when there was no rule against it and everyone did it (beginning in ’63 with San Diego) is ridiculous. Same thing with stickum, back when it wasn’t outlawed yet and everyone did it. Now when these things are OUTLAWED, as steroids were in the late ’80s, then their use DOES become cheating. Same with stickum or anything else.

    But when you BREAK A RULE about videotaping or deflating footballs, something that your opponent DOESN’T have equal access to, then that IS cheating. Cheating is all about unequal access and the advantage gained when you do something others can’t. It’s that simple.

    —————–

    Of course your opponent has equal opportunity. They are all able to risk breaking whatever rules they want to get an edge. No team follows the rules to the letter and they all do it to gain some kind of advantage.

  179. bchap17 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:24 AM

    Patriots fans still try to justify Spygate.

    That should tell you all you need to know.
    ——————————

    They aren’t trying to justify it. They are trying to make morons understand it for what it was. It’s been eight long years, and they still don’t understand it.

    Of course, morons still misunderstand the tuck rule, and they will continue to misunderstand *Framegate as well.

  180. The holier-than-thou police are out in full force today.

    But what about the children!!??

    How about teaching your kids yourselves instead of relying on multi-millionaires to do it for ya?

    Just a thought, continue your faux outrage session

  181. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:22 PM

    Using steroids in the 1960s wasn’t cheating.

    “What I did was wrong”
    —Terry Bradshaw talking about his steroid abuse

    An odd thing to say about a supposedly “legal” activity, yes? 🙂

    ——————

    It was cheating from day 1 and it’s still cheating and still happening rampantly. When great players like Gates get caught and others who very likely have done PEDs in their life time judge him it’s really sad. It was like when Canseco was ostracized, but he was right the whole time as we found out when it was exposed.

  182. tindeaux says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:34 PM
    my buddy always boasted about his patriots and brady. i told them:
    “of all the championships the patriots won, they always surrounded with controversies. explain that?”

    that shut him up pretty good.
    ___________________________________
    Wow, pretty persuasive argument. You must be on the debate team.

    Explanation is simple and historically based, predating the Patriots. Most events fall within a statistically predictable pattern. Most, but not all. When an event occurs that falls within the very small statistically unpredictable range, its controversial. The unpredictable result is even considered irrational. However, it is predictably irrational. OK, so maybe the explanation is not simple. But it is correct. The Patriots under Kraft, Belichick, Brady and Adams (those are the common elements) have created a predictably irrational team. The results are irrational because statistically you wouldn’t expect a team to excel for such a long period of time. However they are now predictable because the variables involved ie hard work, doing your job, unselfish salary expectations, unimpeded support, uncanny abilities and others are understood. Any team can do the same thing. But no other team will. That doesn’t mean other teams won’t win SuperBowl. But other teams won’t be as successful as the modern day Patriots. Thats predictably irrational.

  183. The pick plays are coming.

    Better find a way to stop them.

    Whining about it later is not good defense.

  184. There are a lot of fans who never cared about the Patriots either way who now dislike them because of all their cheating scandals.

    Patriots fans will naturally always believe the Patriots can do no wrong, but their legacy has been tarnished in the eyes of neutral parties would have respected them otherwise.

  185. Patriots fans will naturally always believe the Patriots can do no wrong, but their legacy has been tarnished in the eyes of neutral parties would have respected them otherwise.

    Stop it, there are no “neutral” parties.

    As if absent spygate & framegate everyone would be wearing Pats swag.

  186. I have been watching football since the 1960’s. I agree with this statement from the above comments:

    “The game was more fun and had more personality in the 70s when you didn’t have an anal NFL league office purporting falsely that they can stage an absolutely fair (and completely bland) contest every game, every week. Frankly, for the NFL to justify cracking down on teams for trivial things like deflating footballs or piping in crowd noise is a little bit ridiculous when they (1) keep tinkering with the rules to the detriment of teams with a history / tradition of running the ball or playing tough defense and (2) cannot create a rule defining what is a catch that is logical and objectively enforceable, and (3) cannot even competently officiate the rules they have.”

    I liked the old days better. Too many watchdogs, looking for a reason to put down a good team. The 49ers were better in the Eddy De Bartelo days. It was fun to watch. He is a man who knows football. The new head office and company make it look like they really don’t know what they are doing!

    Nowadays, every time a person looks at someone cross-eyed, IT’S A PENALTY!!! Also, all players are making great money, they do need to perform!

  187. STILLlolatpatshaters says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:22 PM
    Using steroids in the 1960s wasn’t cheating.

    “What I did was wrong”
    —Terry Bradshaw talking about his steroid abuse

    An odd thing to say about a supposedly “legal” activity, yes? 🙂
    ————–

    Not at all. An actress can starve herself to slim down for a movie roll. She can look back at it and say: That was wrong? Was it illegal? No, not at all. Steroids weren’t illegal when the Steelers won their titles (doesn’t make it any ‘healthier’). So, no, it doesn’t somehow absolve the taint from the Pats.

  188. Deflating the ball wasn’t a big deal. Instead of taking a small fine and a slap on the wrist, the Patriots made it a big deal with their spewing press conferences, angrily demanding apologies, slandering the Colts, slandering Goodell, using misinterpretation of science, etc. It was the Pats who forced the NFL’s hand into an investigation in which the Pats and Brady refused to cooperate.

  189. revelation123 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 1:38 PM
    There are a lot of fans who never cared about the Patriots either way who now dislike them because of all their cheating scandals.

    Patriots fans will naturally always believe the Patriots can do no wrong, but their legacy has been tarnished in the eyes of neutral parties would have respected them otherwise.


    NOT TRUE!

    Letting Flutie drop kick was WRONG! Put them in Denver instead of Pittsburg that year. We all know how well Pats do in PA 🙂 That move cost them a SB.
    Signing Haynesworth was WAY WRONG!

  190. granadafan says:
    Oct 16, 2015 1:56 PM
    Deflating the ball wasn’t a big deal. Instead of taking a small fine and a slap on the wrist, the Patriots made it a big deal with their spewing press conferences, angrily demanding apologies, slandering the Colts, slandering Goodell, using misinterpretation of science, etc. It was the Pats who forced the NFL’s hand into an investigation in which the Pats and Brady refused to cooperate.

    So lemme get this straight

    After Kravitz, Doyle, Mort, Lyin Brian Williams and every other major news outlets declared the Pats were cheating you think responding to these accusations constitutes spewing conferences?

    Got it.

  191. One more thing, greats like Jerry Rice and Joe Montana were exceptional, talented players. I can’t believe people are trying to say that stick’em and deflated footballs made them who they are!! And Steve Young, what trick did he supposedly have up his sleeve?

    Tom Brady did what he did. He is not on my team, but he’s a talented football player. I don’t care how many times you put stick’em on a person’s gloves, or throw a deflated ball, if the talent isn’t there and probably the love of the game to go with it, you can’t play like Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Steve Young, and Tom Brady, etc. THEY ARE GIFTED. Let the current teams play the game again!!!

  192. How can you make a blanket statement like that.
    How can you know for sure that everybody cheats.
    Speak for yourself Joe.
    Troy Aikman said he had problems throwing a wet ball but he just accepted and did the best he could of the situation.
    You can’t speak for everybody sir!!!

  193. davemc617 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:38 PM
    “First of all, the famous memo that went around warning teams about prohibited taping was sent in 2006, and it was a REMINDER — the rule had actually been in effect BEFORE then.”

    No it wasn’t, and it STILL isn’t. Show me the rule. Refer to the EXACT section of the rule… which shouldn’t be too hard since, like you said, the NFL sent out a memo to detail the rule change; right?\
    ===============
    The rule states filming signals is only allowed in designated areas. The memo sent out affirmed that. that rule was in place long before spygate.

  194. realitycheckbaby says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:11 AM
    The difference is it’s not Brady using stickum, it’s cheating on an institutional level.

    Kraft has admitted to it, twice.

    Check the fines and forfeited picks.
    =========================
    No, Kraft has not admitted anything of the sorts, not sure what BSPN spoonfed lies you are getting your news from but you couldn’t be further from the truth…SMH.

    Are there really this many low IQ fans in existence or is this just a bi-product of America’s poor excuse for education? The dumb get dumberer!

  195. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:15 AM
    Brady’s a cheater, deal with it and move on Patriots fans. Montana’s right. And certainly, the Patriots aren’t the only team in sports that ever cheated. But it’s important to draw a distinction here.

    Saying something is “cheating” when it’s not illegal and everyone has equal access to it is different than breaking a RULE that says you can’t do something, because then not everyone has equal access to it and someone draws an illegal competitive ADVANTAGE. Saying the use of steroids is “cheating” back when there was no rule against it and everyone did it (beginning in ’63 with San Diego) is ridiculous. Same thing with stickum, back when it wasn’t outlawed yet and everyone did it. Now when these things are OUTLAWED, as steroids were in the late ’80s, then their use DOES become cheating. Same with stickum or anything else.

    But when you BREAK A RULE about videotaping or deflating footballs, something that your opponent DOESN’T have equal access to, then that IS cheating. Cheating is all about unequal access and the advantage gained when you do something others can’t. It’s that simple.
    ============
    Yeah, no. Unequal access is a ridiculous notion to put forth re: spygate\deflategate unless you’re prepared to argue no team had the opportunity to tape signals in the wrong location or deflate balls. You don’t know that nor would you have anyway of knowing. The unfair advantage created by both is a more relevant argument. IMO, there’s certainly more to suggest an advantage with spygate than deflategate. Even though there’s not a ton of real data to suggest either are decisively advantageous. The record post-spygate and the stats post-deflategate kind of show how ridiculously inflamed each are. It’s certainly fair to ask why do it if there wasn’t an advantage. It’s probably even fair to question if the taped signals helped for individual games. I’m just pointing out the stats don’t do a lot to further that argument. Which doesn’t mean I’m condoning either.

    BTW, Stickum was made illegal in 1981. The entire length of Rice’s career. So I’m not sure your distinction really applies here. It sure seems similar and relevant (at least to me).

  196. fanofsportsman says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:20 AM
    It’s too bad because he is a very good qb, but now forever whenever Brady’s name is brought up the first thing MOST people will think is CHEATER!!!
    ====================
    Actually when Brady’s name is brought up the first thing MOST people will think is GOAT!!!

  197. jppsblownofffingers says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:09 AM
    Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru. Deflategate was BS and was just a make up punishment for spygate. Everybody knows this.
    =======================
    Apparently everybody does not know this because the Pats have NEVER taped ANY teams walkthru. This was a fabricated story by a disgruntled ex-employee which was immediately retracted with an apology attached.

    EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS except for you.

  198. “The rule states filming signals is only allowed in designated areas. The memo sent out affirmed that. that rule was in place long before spygate.”

    Yes, and prior to the memo being sent out in 2006 with the purpose of preventing the usage of film mid-game, the sideline WAS what would be considered a designated area. Even AFTER the memo was sent out stating that the sideline was no longer an accepted filming location, no section of the rulebook has been changed to reflect the change in policy; i.e., that the NFL no longer considered the sideline a designated area. Why would they have to do that? Because, according to the Policy Manual for Member Clubs Volume II: Game Operations 2007 edition, the area designated as a place in which you CAN film signals… was ANYWHERE BUT THE FIELD OR CLUBHOUSE.

    The rule itself reads: “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.”

    The sideline is not, nor has it even been, a part of the field. It’s why it’s the SIDEline; i.e., it’s to the side of the field. Therefore, according to the NFL’s own definitions in the Constitution and Bylaws, as well as their own gameday manual, the Patriots did not violate a rule.

    To summarize: the NFL sends out a memo referencing a rule (Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL ) which prevents the usage of film during the game, then states that, with regards to this rule, they will no longer allow filming from outside the designated areas, as doing so would make it possible to violate the above rule (using the film for the current game). Unfortunately, Ray Anderson misquoted the rule in his memo, and the ACTUAL RULEBOOKS contradict his claims. Therefore, Belichick presumed that the actual rules take precedence over the memo, and continued his filming policy as such.

    There were NO RULES VIOLATIONS. All Bill did was ignore a new Commissioner. THAT was his infraction.

  199. Look the Falcons blatantly piped in fake crowd noise when opposing teams were in the huddle. They did it for years.

    Why wasn’t there a big witch hunt or major suspensions or anything other than the joke of penalities that were levied. $350k and NEXT years 5th rounder.

    We have this huge circus over footballs that no one can even prove were deflated or that Brady was involved but the NFL is ready to drop the hammer. Then we have the Falcons who straight up cheated for years and got caught red handed and their punishment is a joke. It’s this type of inconsistency from the NFL that causes all the problems.

  200. I love how many people enter the conversation at the point of “a QB can tell if the ball is deflated” (as if the officials cannot) or “nobody would have tampered with the balls without Brady’s knowledge” without ever bothering to answer the question of
    Why should anybody think that balls were deflated at all?
    What, because Ryan Grigson said that it was “well known around the league”? Because Mike Kensil said “we weighed the balls” (his words, not mine)?

    Anybody with any science background knows that the halftime measurements did not show that the balls had been tampered with. It’s a travesty that the NFL continues to pretend that they actually proved something.

  201. bostontdparty says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:46 PM

    first let me commend you on a well written post.

    However, let me ask you this, although the judge specifically ruled to vacate the suspension based on the way the NFL handled the disciplinary action, the judge did provide some overt admonishment to the NFL’s flawed method of determining Brady’s guilt, specifically noting as, “independent” Well’s report.

    You must also recall the judge’s direct question, do you have any evidence…?
    ———————————————-

    Thank you. Obviously you’re a NE fan who actually has a clue what the decision was really about, unlike most of these blind mice.

    I’ve had this debate before, and I see you are committing the same error of omission that the other fans did. Nash NEVER said he felt his side had “no evidence” whatsoever; what he said was that they lacked “direct” evidence: “Is there a text in which Mr. Brady instructs someone to put a needle in a football? No, there is not such direct evidence.” He THEN went on to state that he believed there was plenty of evidence in GENERAL to base the league’s case on, including the texts between the ball boys. Big difference there. He simply reiterated the league lacked the smoking gun, but that’s something they never claimed to have had in the first place.

    What Patriots fans fail to recognize is that while Berman did criticize the league and the report, he in fact bashed BOTH sides. Berman stressed he felt the balls were deflated, and asked how on earth it was possible Brady had no knowledge of what the ball boys were up to. Kessler’s laughable response that “it was conceivable Mr. McNally thought it would be something that would be good for his QB” and equally hilarious Rogue-Ball-Boy theory drew understandable skepticism from anyone with half a brain, which I believe would include the judge. He wasn’t buying it, and nobody else should either. The judge ALSO criticized and expressed concern with why Brady didn’t fully cooperate with the league. So contrary to Boston opinion, this wasn’t all one-sided and he didn’t grant Brady the “slam dunk victory” you’re all celebrating. Again, he simply came down on Goodell for overstepping the bounds of his authority, in the good judge’s opinion.

    Again, his ruling had NOTHING to do with Brady’s guilt OR innocence, which is why all those “Brady wins!” headlines are a wee bit misguided. Yes, Brady won the case, but didn’t get “vindicated” of any wrongdoing. That’s the bottom line, and only a homer would argue with it.

  202. So for those of you still clinging to “Brady Cheated”, can you please explain the following info from the Wells Report:

    1. “The Ideal Gas Law predicts that the Patriots balls should have measured between 11.52 and 11.32 psi as the end of the first half” (Page 113)

    2. “Anderson’s best recollection is that he used the Logo Gauge” (Page 52)

    3. With the Logo Gauge, the average measurement of the Patriot footballs was 11.49 psi (Page 8)

    So the Wells Report itself proves that there was no deflation or cheating. But I know, it is much easier to jump on the Brady cheated bandwagon than to read through all the facts and make logical conclusions.

  203. granadafan says:
    Oct 16, 2015 1:56 PM

    Deflating the ball wasn’t a big deal.
    ====

    Pretending that the NFL had evidence that anybody had deflated the ball was a big deal.

    ===

    Instead of taking a small fine and a slap on the wrist, the Patriots made it a big deal with their spewing press conferences, angrily demanding apologies, slandering the Colts, slandering Goodell, using misinterpretation of science, etc.

    ===
    Typical hater cannot be bothered with details. Point by point:
    a) this was never going to be a “slap on the wrist”. In 2007 Belichick pled guilty and provided all the evidence the NFL wanted. The Pats were still given a historic punishment. This was always intended to be an even bigger punishment.

    b) given that the accusation was false, an ap0logy was appropriate

    c) slandering the Colts? What on earth are you talking about? What individual associated with the Patriots ever slandered the Colts?

    d) slandering Goodell? Again, what individual associated with the Patriots ever slandered Goodell? Lots of fans did, but so what? And when a man is demonstrably a liar, is it slander to point that out? (Answer: legally, no it isn’t.)

    e) “Misinterpretation of science”? This is an absurd accusation. What is your background in science? I can only speak for myself – I have a very strong background in mathematics, including training at the doctorate and postdoctorate level, and have worked at high reputation institutes and published in respected journals. And I’m not alone in thinking the Exponent report was junk. Drew Fusten is a Ph.D. specializing in air pressure and he thinks the Exponent work is junk. The guys at AEI think it’s junk.

    The mistakes are very basic. Exponent drew a nice graph showing how the air pressure in a football would increase over time and then simply ignored it when comparing the Pats’ and Colts’ footballs.
    ===
    It was the Pats who forced the NFL’s hand into an investigation in which the Pats and Brady refused to cooperate.

    Brady cooperated with every reasonable demand. The NFL demanded “every message related to air pressure” sent after the balls had been seized. There is no reasonable belief that any such message would have implicated Brady. However, there is plenty of reason that there might have been plenty of such messages that could have embarrassed Brady.

    When you think you’re using a private phone (as Brady was), you’re liable to say things that you don’t want made public. We have legal rights, one of which is the right to privacy.

    The NFL made an over-broad demand for all of Brady’s messages, and he declined. At the time they made no fuss about that. And then, a few months later, they said it was the primary basis for the punishment.

    At some point, somebody really ought to bother to prove that somebody tampered with footballs. Otherwise the entire drama is little more than an exercise in character assassination.

    And you’re not clever enough to notice that. You decided in January the Patriots must be guilty of something and won’t admit that you’ve been wrong for nine months.

  204. harrisonhits2 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:06 AM
    “Patriots cheat. No legitimate SuperBowls. Sorry. It’s true.”

    The Steelers have the longest and most documented cheating history in the league.
    ————————————————-

    That’s a complete and utter LIE believed only by Patriots fans as part of their campaign to deflect from their own cheating by making up lies about other teams. You must work for that dishonest Patriots-fan-created “your team cheats” web site.

    Show me one DOCUMENTED case of the Steelers “cheating” and don’t be digging up steroid tall tales back when they were commonly used and not outlawed. And don’t give me the garbage line that the Steelers “invented” team-wide steroid use when it was documented in San Diego in 1963. And don’t give me phony Dr. Rydze stories where he was never linked with distributing anything to the team.

    Meanwhile, your own handle bears the name of a Patriots player who WAS busted for PED use AFTER it was declared illegal. Yeah Harrison “hits” all right — hits the HGH needle pretty hard. Dude, no team even comes close to the Patriots legacy of dirty cheating deeds. You got some nerve trying to drag someone else down into the mud with you.

  205. ===============
    The rule states filming signals is only allowed in designated areas. The memo sent out affirmed that. that rule was in place long before spygate.

    ===

    There’s a rule saying that “filming signals is only allowed in designated areas?” You want to try again?

    Let me help.

    Miscellaneous Rules and Regulations, Section A. reads, “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game.”

    That’s the rule. That’s it. Did the Patriots record from the booth? No. From the locker room? No.

    From “on the field?” NO.

    The field is the area between the sidelines and stretching to the end of each end zone. In fact, the same rule book clearly defines the field to have these boundaries. The team areas on the sidelines are not on the field. There are numerous rules that are consistset with this definition. The NFL cannot simply redefined “field” for one rule. That’s ludicrous.

    Ray Anderson’s memo said “Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”

    Anderson changed “on the field” to “on the sidelines” and also added “or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.” But changing the rules isn’t a power granted to the Commissioner or anybody who works in his office.

    The NFL and their dependent media have played along with the Goodell story, acting like this interpretation represented the state of the rules at the time. But it really didn’t. If Belichick had gone to court, there’s a good chance he would have won. But Kraft didn’t want him to go to court, and, whatever else one thinks, it’s clear that Belichick simply ignored Anderson’s memo.

    One could argue that Anderson’s memo should have the force of an NFL rule. One cannot argue that his memo reflected the actual state of the rules before it was written. Anderson expanded a ban on a small number of locations to a ban on “any location accessible to club staff members during the game”. That’s a major change!

  206. How many picks are set and not called every game? Other teams get called for it when it was blown calls.

  207. jppsblownofffingers says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:09 AM

    Huge difference between spraying silicone on your jersey or some stickum on your fingers and video taping another teams walk thru.

    ==-=

    Could you please catch up to the fact that this allegation was disproven years ago!

    I swear, some people are incapable of ingesting new information.

    No, the Pats never taped any “walkthrough” or any other kind of practice by any team.

    This kind of noise is why Pats’ fans get so upset.

  208. tindeaux says:
    Oct 16, 2015 12:34 PM

    my buddy always boasted about his patriots and brady. i told them:
    “of all the championships the patriots won, they always surrounded with controversies. explain that?”

    that shut him up pretty good.

    ===

    Maybe he just thought that rational argument was wasted on you?

    When people argue that a rule correctly adjudicated (Tuck Rule) is scandalous, or that a memo written in 2006 must apply to everything that happened before it was written, what is there to do?

    Why do people keep accusing the Pats of cheating? The reason is obvious. People, in general, are lazy thinkers who won’t engage in real analysis. When told a story by somebody in a position of authority, a lot of people will simply accept it. So when the commissioner of the NFL says that he has evidence of cheating, most people will not be skeptical.

    People should be skeptical, esp. with regard to anything Roger Goodell says.

  209. davemc617 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 4:31 PM

    To summarize: the NFL sends out a memo referencing a rule (Article 9.1 (C) (14) of the Constitution and Bylaws of the NFL ) which prevents the usage of film during the game, then states that, with regards to this rule, they will no longer allow filming from outside the designated areas, as doing so would make it possible to violate the above rule (using the film for the current game). Unfortunately, Ray Anderson misquoted the rule in his memo, and the ACTUAL RULEBOOKS contradict his claims. Therefore, Belichick presumed that the actual rules take precedence over the memo, and continued his filming policy as such.

    There were NO RULES VIOLATIONS. All Bill did was ignore a new Commissioner. THAT was his infraction.
    ————————————————

    Spare me the Kool Aid drinking fantasy-speak… do you work for Patriots PR? Because that’s a line straight out of spin central. Here we go AGAIN with the old “the Patriots didn’t do anything wrong, you just don’t understand Spygate!” line that assumes all Patriots fans are the sole storehouse of wisdom on the topic. Puh-leeze!

    Yes, the Patriots knew they were so within the rules on this one, so on the up and up, that they sent the guys out to do the taping wearing shirts with the phony logos of non-existent production houses (do some reading on the topic, it’s fascinating) and went out of their way to hide which organization they were REALLY affiliated with. Gosh, why do you think that is? Because Bill knew he wasn’t breaking any rule? That’s why you have to disguise someone? Really?

    And as usual, the Spygate “experts” get it all wrong. It’s not that Belichick ignored Goodell, that he could’ve done and gotten off scot-free. The guy he did make the fatal mistake of ignoring was Mangini, who had come from the same Cheating Farm System and knew the scam. So much so that he told Bill, hey, I know what you’re doing, just don’t do it in OUR house. But arrogant Bill went right along doing it, so Mangini set the little trap. And busted his guy wearing the phony logo shirt identifying him as being from the phony production house. Blowing off Mangini was the big goof-up here, not Roger.

    Belichick knew the rule and knew he was violating it or he wouldn’t have gone all cloak and dagger here. Your spin on this story, like most Patriots fans, is simply as ridiculous as it is biased. Belichick gambled he could keep getting away with his taping scam just like he gambled the refs wouldn’t want to keep throwing defensive holding flags on his defense in the Super Bowl. It’s how he rolls. And hey some you win, some you lose. He lost on the Spygate gamble.

    When you start living in the world of reality, it all makes sense… try it sometime. You might like it.

  210. “Belichick knew the rule and knew he was violating it or he wouldn’t have gone all cloak and dagger here. Your spin on this story, like most Patriots fans, is simply as ridiculous as it is biased.”

    … and yet I actually referenced specific articles of the various NFL rulebooks and all you did was say I’m wrong, well, because you said so.

    Superb argument there bud….

  211. “The field is the area between the sidelines and stretching to the end of each end zone. In fact, the same rule book clearly defines the field to have these boundaries. The team areas on the sidelines are not on the field. There are numerous rules that are consistset with this definition. The NFL cannot simply redefined “field” for one rule. That’s ludicrous.”

    Excellent post. I posted something similar, but you articlulated this part far better than I did. Kudos

  212. I don’t like cheaters. That cr@p – “If you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying” is for less talented people. If you have the talent and you earn it, work hard, then you should win. If you have to cheat to win then you’re not good enough.

    Montana just said he’s not good enough. Rice wasn’t good enough either. To revere players who cheat is a character flaw.

  213. And davemc617, let me leave you and your Pats buds with this thought. See, what I find truly amazing about your Kool Aid drinking is just how much you’ve drunk! At least Belichick took some blame for what he did in what he claimed was just a “misinterpretation of the rule” as much as so many of us find that hard to believe from such a detail-oriented super-smart coach. Here are his exact words owning up: “I paid the price for that mistake. It was my mistake.”

    But you? You go beyond even Belichick — you claim he did nothing wrong, and not only that, his interpretation of things was the RIGHT one, even though Belichick himself disagrees. Wow. You are truly off the deep end in your insistence that somehow, some way, nothing was done wrong in Spygate. (Yeah there was so little done wrong, Goodell freaked and had all the tapes destroyed for some reason.)

    And that’s the problem. You see, if you listen to Montana, he’s pretty much saying such things aren’t such a big deal. Yeah, teams would spray silicone on their jerseys or use stickum or do whatever. But here’s the vital difference between all those other guys and the Patriots and ESPECIALLY their fans.

    You see, the Patriots and their fans can’t admit even one wrong act was ever committed by their team. Spygate? Belichick did nothing wrong, it’s just that YOU don’t understand Spygate (so the fault for Spygate, amazingly, gets passed on to other teams’ fans. How about THAT magic trick?) And when you’re accused of deflating footballs, or whatever, instead of at least some admission that something went down, you stand up and demand apologies and make (literally) federal cases out of things. Then you go out and create dishonest web sites pretending to be from third parties instead of Pats fans making up stuff about OTHER teams cheating. What other fan base even dreams of such garbage?

    You’re SO determined to be so 100 percent innocent and squeaky clean, you even demand we all believe when you say the Deflator nicknames really DOES refer to weight loss. And then you wonder why the rest of us get just a bit tired of your act.

  214. “You’re SO determined to be so 100 percent innocent and squeaky clean, you even demand we all believe when you say the Deflator nicknames really DOES refer to weight loss. And then you wonder why the rest of us get just a bit tired of your act.”

    Eh, whatever. I just got home from work, so I’m bored with you.

    If you want to offer some legitimate arguments and not empty ad hominem attacks sometime, maybe I’ll feel different… but until then, have a good one.

  215. davemc617 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 7:09 PM
    “Belichick knew the rule and knew he was violating it or he wouldn’t have gone all cloak and dagger here. Your spin on this story, like most Patriots fans, is simply as ridiculous as it is biased.”

    … and yet I actually referenced specific articles of the various NFL rulebooks and all you did was say I’m wrong, well, because you said so.

    Superb argument there bud….
    ————————————————

    No, not because I said so. Because BILL BELICHICK HIMSELF said so. Good enough for you?

    What part of “it was my mistake” can’t you comprehend? You’re so wacky you’re even contradicting Belichick’s own admission, but yet I’m the one who’s all laughable here. Uh huh.

    And I referenced the fact that the guys were going out dressed in disguise doing it, pretending they weren’t with the Patriots, which is a key tip-off something isn’t kosher. And you just blew by that little nugget like I never said it.

    Belichick HIMSELF said he misinterpreted things. That he was neither right nor justified. It’s only you in your deluded little world who still clings to the notion he did nothing wrong. I know what rules you posted. And Belichick himself said he didn’t interpret them correctly.
    I think I’ll take his word, if you don’t mind, as much as an obvious expert you are on the topic.

    “It… was… my… mistake.” Get a clue, dude. Get a clue.

  216. bchap17 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 11:18 AM
    nolasoxfan2012 says:
    Oct 16, 2015 9:03 AM

    It’s just awesome how the NFL has totally smeared Brady’s reputation without any actual evidence. Total integrity and stuff.
    —————————————–
    Funny how circumstantial evidence is enough to convict someone of murder but not Brady of knowing about the deflated footballs or Spygate.

    ===========================================================

    At least in a murder, there is an actual dead body.
    The NFL was not able to conclusively prove that the balls were manually deflated at all.
    The average pressure of the 11 balls using the non-logo gauge was 11.1 psi. According to Exponent, the expected pressure should have been between 11.3 and 11.5 psi. So, best (or worst, depending upon your pov) case scenario, the balls were, on average, .2 psi below the expected range- a value which is within the margin or error for off-the-shelf pressure gauges.
    So, I would expect more than shaky circumstantial evidence to conclude there was any intentional deflation at all.

  217. Belichick HIMSELF said he misinterpreted things.

    So you won’t mind my filling in the rest of the story, so it’s fair and balanced.

    1st, let’s makes sure what this is about,

    No member shall: “Use at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which a club is a participant, any communications or information gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

    That’s the rule that has been inaccurately dubbed spygate.

    If memory serves, Bill explained that his interpretation was that the tapes were not to be used during that game so if the intent was future use then there was no violation. That exactly matches the stated rule. Still with me?

    No one at any point right up to this moment has suggested he was or is doing otherwise.

    Unless of course you have a bit of actual evidence to share.

  218. ampatsisahypocrite says:
    Oct 16, 2015 10:35 AM

    “Science expert” Patriots fans are the same anti-technical MORONS who turn around and swallow the NFL’s technically UN-supported excuse that a totally encrypted digitally-based communications system could fail due to weather conditions, as it did opening night in Foxborough. Suddenly all you junior scientists turn all stupid when it suits your purposes.

    —-

    Aw, aren’t you cute. Anti-technical in that an NFL game has to squeeze 500MHz of requested communications equipment into a 25 MHz band? Technically speaking (see what I did there) there are much more radio waves used than just the coaches communications. TV broadcasts, radio broadcasts, replay systems, concessions, local and national sports reporters, sideline reporters, medical personnel, security personnel, halftime entertainers, commercial pilots, people working the wendy’s drive-thru.

    RF interference happens at literally every NFL game. Sounds like your problem is with the NFL, who … technically … is in charge of that anyway.

  219. Joe should know,,, between his greased up o-line and jerry with his stick`em ,they tried very hard too. Oh and BTW Brady will be GOAT when all said and done ,,so Joe get over it!!!!

  220. So now we know Joe and the 49rs cheated because he just admited it. But saying the pats cheated because he beleive everyone does is kind of a stretch don’t you think?

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