NFL dismisses Charles Sly’s recanting of PED allegations

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As the NFL and NFL Players Association continue to harden their diametrically-opposed positions regarding the investigation sparked by PED allegations made in an Al Jazeera documentary, more and more aspects of each side’s beliefs have become clear.

In the NFL’s most recent letter to the NFLPA, which was given to the media before it was given to the union, the league dismisses the notion that Charles Sly’s recanting of the allegations in any way disproves them.

“The fact that statements aired in the report may have been since ‘recanted,’ while potentially relevant to any ultimate conclusions reached, does not extinguish our need to investigate,” NFL senior V.P. of labor policy and league affairs Adolpho Birch writes in his letter to NFLPA counsel Heather McPhee. “And it is hardly remarkable or dispositive that an individual would publicly disavow statements for which he may be subject to criminal or civil sanctions.”

Peyton Manning may disagree strongly with that sentiment, given the P.R. push from Camp Manning that Sly’s about-face proves that his claims are false. Still, the NFL is absolutely right on this point. It’s no surprise that a person who said one thing when he didn’t realize he was being recorded said something else once the syntax hit the fan.

Birch’s comments appear in support of the broader position that the NFL has a right to interview players as part of an investigation aimed at determining whether evidence of PED use exists beyond a positive test.

“[Y]our letters do not dispute that NFL players have an obligation to cooperate with league investigations and may be disciplined for failing to do so — a principle that, as you know, has been repeatedly confirmed in recent litigation between the parties,” Birch writes.

It’s also clear that the league believes it has the power to interview players without sharing any of the evidence that has been compiled against them, regardless of whether that evidence suggests innocence or guilt.

“[W]e are under no obligation to disclose all evidence uncovered thus far as a condition to interviewing the parties,” Birch writes, “which would clearly compromise the investigation.”

Here’s where it’s critical for the two sides to have a clear understanding regarding what the rules are regarding investigations. Neither the Collective Bargaining Agreement nor the PED policy contain language expressly acknowledging the league’s power to interview players as part of the investigation or outlining the rules and procedures that apply when an investigation occurs. In litigation, parties to the dispute aren’t expected to tell their stories without knowing what evidence the other side does or doesn’t possess. In investigations like this one, players shouldn’t be required to do it, either.

The fact that the CBA and the PED policy say nothing about the NFL’s and NFLPA’s rights and responsibilities when the league wants to interview players in connection with a possible PED violation suggests that the players aren’t required to provide any information until the NFL has developed enough evidence to justify discipline — and unless the player appeals the suspension. Even if the NFL has the ability to interview players before imposing discipline, the notion that the league can conceal the evidence and hope to coax the players into saying something that conflicts with other evidence that the league is hiding. absent express authorization to proceed in this way, justifies an effort by the NFLPA to resist making the players available.

With #Deflategate being an exercise in jumping to an uninformed conclusion and then launching an investigation aimed not at getting to the truth but justifying a predetermined outcome, there’s no reason for the NFLPA or anyone to believe the NFL will do anything differently in this case. As a result, there’s no reason for the NFLPA to agree to let the players walk into a potential buzzsaw.

Regardless of how this plays out, the NFL and NFLPA should come up with clear rules regarding the trigger for launching an investigation and the nuts and bolts associated with conducting it.

119 responses to “NFL dismisses Charles Sly’s recanting of PED allegations

  1. If the NFL dismisses the recanting of the allegations, shouldn’t they dismiss the original statement? Why dismiss one and not the other? Unless they have an agenda?

  2. Sounds like a deliberate misinterpretation to me. They want to interview players as part of an investigation – they don’t have to tell the players (or the NFL PA) anything until they are ready to present their findings and any punishment.

  3. Here come the lawyers again – Declaratory Judgment time! And any decision that the NFL is constrained by due process or fundamental fairness will become a new battleground.

  4. Here’s a novel idea. Why not suspend everyone in the NFL for one year? What the heck. Give them all a year off. This would benefit the league in several ways:
    1. The players’ health would improve.
    2. We wouldn’t have to read every week about the NFL suspending players for drug use, beating up their girlfriends, or whipping their kids, since they’d already be suspended.
    3. It would make the players and owners all realize the gold mine they have and what it’s like to live without it.
    4. It would make millions of NFL fans’ wives happy because their husbands wouldn’t be glued to the tv on Sundays.
    5. It would make thousands of Vikings fans happy because their team wouldn’t break their hearts again for the 55th consecutive year.

    Seriously — the NFL is now more about players being investigated, players being arrested, the dangers of playing football, billions spent on stadiums, players signing ridiculously high salaries, playing games in other countries, changing the rules, and players being suspended than it is the game itself.
    I know this much. It isn’t the same game I grew up watching and loving anymore. I don’t know about anyone else, and I thought I’d never say this, but I’m starting to grow weary of all of this. I think I’ll spend more time watching our local high school football games this year.

  5. Remember, Peyton can send guys wearing actual black trench coats over to a key witness’s parents house, causing him to recant literally the next day, and it means nothing. But Brady can “destroy”/upgrade his phone after asking investigators if they even need anything off it and being told they don’t, and it is proof of an elaborate scheme to be subject to the laws of physics. Because integrity.

  6. Opinions aren’t facts. One might say that finding a ball boy nicknamed the Deflator hiding out in the bathroom with game balls was a fair and reasonable conclusion. And an investigation was warranted based on the facts.

  7. Rule #4 – Arbitrator MUST be Honest, FAIR and have Credible INTEGRITY

    Rule #5 – Punishment MUST be agreed upon in the CBA and can never be “Made Up” under the sole discretion of the NFL – It’s is called LABOR LAW – It is the LAW.

  8. The NFL is right on this one, the NFLPA is wrong. Here come the Patriots crybabies in the comments…

  9. The league doesn’t know anything about clear rules, on or off the field, nor do they seem to care. They want power to do what they want to do. It’s in the players’ interests to make them spell it out and include reasonable limits to the league’s powers.

  10. no way this is resolved before camp opens. Peppers and Matthews are gonna have all this crap hanging over them while trying to prepare themselves to re-claim the North. Meanwhile, the coast is clear over here in MN. Our boys have been pretty well behaved this off season, so far. Skol. I wanna beat the best when they are at the best, so I hope it all goes away soon.

  11. INVESTIGATE!

    People who didn’t take PEDs and can in no way (other than he said she said) be connected to PED’s will fully cooperate if they are worried about their image, because full cooperation is a trait of the innocent. People who are dirty will claim that the allegations and answering to them tarnishes their image.

    These people are way to rich to not understand such basic PR angles. Hire someone to understand it for you.

  12. RegisHawk says:
    Jul 1, 2016 12:34 PM
    Sounds like a deliberate misinterpretation to me. They want to interview players as part of an investigation – they don’t have to tell the players (or the NFL PA) anything until they are ready to present their findings and any punishment.
    ————————-
    And yet Brady’s investigation was based on a single unsubstantiated claim that he had no chance to answer before being subjected to an illegal bungled sting that found no clear evidence anyway, and then subjected to a torrent of lies and pre-determined guilt before any fudged findings were even published – a torrent that had you in it’s front rank. And now you complain that the NFL are wilfully misinterpreting things? Lol! At least this time PEDs are actually a rule that applies to players – PSI in balls is not even a player rule (it only applies to teams). I weep for you buddy…

  13. I have to admit, I really am curious about whether HGH treatments have the power to turn a person coming off serious surgery on a part of his body that affects his throwing into a record setting NFL QB.

  14. gomer manning supplied the entire denver team with chinese guyer roids.

    look at von miller’s play after the bye week after gomer took off from the time mysteriously

  15. The Rules are CLEAR – Very CLEAR

    1.) The NFL has the right, and should, investigate.

    2.) Every NFL Player/Coach/Team has the RIGHT to DUE PROCESS and a FAIR & HONEST Discovery Process based on FACTUAL EVIDENCE

    3.) “More Likely than Not” is TOTAL BS and should never be used to justify punishment.

  16. seems the nfl is now trying to have grand jury powers, opening a grand jury to see if an indictment should be handed down.

    to me, that appears to be a very large adjustment to the penalty article in the CBA.

    of course from what we saw in deflate-gate they stop at nothing, and only need two judges to let them get away with this type of mishigas.

  17. The players have all said they would like to talk! Let them! If they didn’t do anything, they have nothing to fear.

  18. I don’t know about everyone else, but with the Brady thing I always thought two things-

    1) the NFL mucked it up beyond belief and seemed incompetent at every turn and lost all credibility with me for their internal process and structure, then they put on some witch hunt to try and get a result that justified their suspicions and ended up making themselves look worse.

    2) Brady acted guilty from day one, and innocent people don’t act guilty. They attempt it the other way around.

  19. weepingjebus says:
    Jul 1, 2016 12:43 PM
    Remember, Peyton can send guys wearing actual black trench coats over to a key witness’s parents house, causing him to recant literally the next day, and it means nothing. But Brady can “destroy”/upgrade his phone after asking investigators if they even need anything off it and being told they don’t, and it is proof of an elaborate scheme to be subject to the laws of physics. Because integrity.
    ——-
    Really, black trench coats, phone “upgrade”. Why didn’t brady destroy the phone he had previous to that one. Where do you guys get this stuff?

  20. I guess it’s the other players turn to be Goodell’s playthings. Tough luck if they’re not Jets players.

  21. Peyton Manning will have his two goons by his side because all innocent men, send two goons impersonating as law enforcement to threaten someone to change their story. Peyton Manning will forever be know as the PED GUY

  22. It’s also amusing to me that the thumbs up/thumbs down ratio’s on these comment varieties seem to suggest that there are predominantly patriots fans lurking on this article… which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    More PR/human psychology misfirings….

  23. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 1:41 PM
    It’s also amusing to me that the thumbs up/thumbs down ratio’s on these comment varieties seem to suggest that there are predominantly patriots fans lurking on this article… which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    More PR/human psychology misfirings….
    ——–
    You are correct sir. Otherwise, they would not care.

  24. There is a single questions that could help clear up this matter. For what medical reason would a healthy woman in her 30s require bootleg HGH from the Guyer Institute be shipped to her home?

  25. eaglesnoles

    which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    ===============================

    or maybe pats fans are more acutely aware of the shenanigans the league office is capable of and use these new offenses to try and point it.

  26. I say, “Let them investigate” Due process is still the law of the land and if any of the players should choose to respond, “I don’t recall” then the NFL is no closer than when they started and that gets back to the basic point the Player’s Union is citing, Where’s the evidence?

  27. If you tell your woman something you shouldn’t, and then you later recant, she will still punish you. This isn’t the same thing, of course…

  28. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 1:35 PM

    I don’t know about everyone else, but with the Brady thing I always thought two things-

    1) the NFL mucked it up beyond belief and seemed incompetent at every turn and lost all credibility with me for their internal process and structure, then they put on some witch hunt to try and get a result that justified their suspicions and ended up making themselves look worse.

    2) Brady acted guilty from day one, and innocent people don’t act guilty. They attempt it the other way around.

    Brady was the one who wanted the transcripts made public. How does that make someone seem guilty, gotta try harder if you want to be a great troll

  29. Trailer park: the ball boy was NOT hiding, he walked by a room full of officials with the balls, one official actually watched him walk in the restroom., it’s on tape! …His nickname was Bird by the way. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your posting (as usual)
    Science proves there as no tampering.

  30. Another couple questions—

    Who has a problem saying they have no connection to PEDs when they have no connection to PEDs? No one.

    So who has a problem saying they have no connection to PEDs in an official investigative interview? Some people, apparently. What does that say, or at least what rebuttable presumption does it create?

    And why create such a presumption in public when you could stand by “the truth” that you are clean, and be clean, because you are clean, and let the world no that you don’t mind being investigated because your conscience is clear… The answer is ONLY on possibility—> that there is a truth that will hurt worse if discovered than the presumption of guilt created by being uncooperative.

  31. whatjusthapped says:
    Jul 1, 2016 1:54 PM
    Where’s the evidence?

    —————

    Manning admitted that the Guyer Institute shipped HGH to his home. There are two adults living in the home. The first is a healthy woman in her 30s. The second is broken down athlete who had just gone through numerous neck surgeries.

    Which one is it “more likely than not” that used the HGH?

  32. It’s pretty obvious he only recanted because he feared the legal backlash of admitting to crimes on video.

  33. i’ve got zero problem with the NFLPA defending players in lawsuits, making sure contracts are honored, enforcing the rules of the CBA, that’s what they are supposed to do.

    However, I’ve got a HUGE problem with the NFLPA obstructing an investigation before it’s even begun.

  34. IMO, Goodell has the power to do what he wants… when it comes to the “Integrity” of the league.

    Everyone who is on the prosecutor Goodells radar will be found guilty by judge Goodell. Luckily, they can appeal to the neutral arbitrator Goodell.

  35. The Jets have had better draft picks than the Patriots for over 15 years. They had more and better 1st round picks. They had preferential treatment from the NFL front orifice. And they still suck. Just sayin.

  36. If Brady wanted the transcripts made public, why didn’t he publicize them? Probably didn’t want them to be made public so bad as he wanted to be able to say that he wanted them made public, huh? Wonder why that is? Must be for no reason at all, let’s just forget it all- he is the best QB of all time anyway.

  37. Fact:
    The ball boy’s nickname was “The Deflator”, Robert Kraft himself acknowledged that fact, he even felt the necessity to explain the coincidence.
    Again, opinions aren’t facts and I wasn’t born yesterday.

  38. infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 1:05 PM
    ” See?!?! See?!?!?! Sly Recanted!!! He recanted!!!!!!!!!”

    Said all of the very low IQ posters on this site.
    ——-
    Apparently they have a higher IQ than those that refused to mention it.

  39. Incidently, Manning seems guilty here. Having HGH shipped to your home isn’t good…

    Yay! Patriots fans like me again now! haha

  40. eaglesnoles

    If Brady wanted the transcripts made public, why didn’t he publicize them? Probably didn’t want them to be made public so bad as he wanted to be able to say that he wanted them made public, huh? Wonder why that is?
    =====================================

    The NFL had the transcripts and wanted them to be held not released, Judge Berman ordered them released.

    The release showed a few things that the NFL didn’t want to be made known, such as the editing by Pash of theWell’s report.

    What is funny is that you are posting with no real facts, and more hilarious is that the majority of people who think Brady is guilty either know this and don’t want to recognize it, or they are just as vacuous as you.

  41. trailerparkking says:
    Jul 1, 2016 2:50 PM
    Fact:
    The ball boy’s nickname was “The Deflator”, Robert Kraft himself acknowledged that fact, he even felt the necessity to explain the coincidence.
    Again, opinions aren’t facts and I wasn’t born yesterday.

    ——————————————————————-

    Are you sure?
    You make as much sense as a day-old baby.
    goo goo gaa gaa.

  42. trailerparkking says:

    Fact:
    The ball boy’s nickname was “The Deflator”

    ===============================

    ok, and that has been explained to you multiple times regarding that a game ball in a jets game was approved by the refs that measured over the 13.5 limit.

    where is the smoking gun that Brady told anyone to deflate any ball below 11.5?

    why did Godell change the entire basis of the punishment from probably aware, to leader of a conspiracy?

    truthfully i really do not care what people are called, if that proves someone is guilty of any crime we are all screwed

  43. Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth.

  44. lscottman3-

    I’m talking about the transcripts of the phone records indicating communication about the issue of ball tampering. And the destruction of the phone containing those records creating a presumption of questionability and perhaps guilt.

    That’s what I’ve been talking about the whole time. What you are talking about is something I also talked about in my original post- the NFL exposing themselves as a joke throughout the whole process and leaving themselves no credibility.

    Seems the accusation of my vacuousness may turn out to be a projection with a little self-examination…

  45. Why should the NFL do anything different in this case that they did in deflategate? They got two dopey federal judges to agree that King Roger can do anything he wants in regard to discipline. You’re in the cross hairs, Roger’s pulling the trigger!!

  46. chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:15 PM
    Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth.
    ———-
    So the truth is the deflator took the game balls to the bathroom. Thanks for making that clear.

  47. Manning admitted that the Guyer Institute shipped HGH to his home. There are two adults living in the home. The first is a healthy woman in her 30s. The second is broken down athlete who had just gone through numerous neck surgeries.

    Which one is it “more likely than not” that used the HGH?

    15 1
    Report comment

    I agree it’s like Brady more likely than not knew about the cheating…. Priceless.

  48. Imagine this scenario-

    Sometimes an investigative organization can be crooked, dishonsest and wrong, and the person(s) being investigated can be be same.

  49. “In the NFL’s most recent letter to the NFLPA, which was given to the media before it was given to the union”

    Now that shows real “integrity” on the part of the NFL.

  50. chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:15 PM

    Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Why bother engaging in back n forth with extremely biased posters?

    There’s not shortage of them here because they don’t have a modern day NFL Dynasty in their home town.
    You Haters are so painfully transparent, you’d tell us the moon is made of cheese and Hillary doesn’t lie if it helps your anti-NE cause.

    Pathetic. Move on with your life

  51. As I have posted before it appears that the NFL indeed investigated the AJ claims even while many figured it was being swept under the rug. Now unlike previous investigations maybe, no, capital letters MAYBE this time they actually found honest to goodness evidence. Doubtful but if they did then an interview with the players named seems reasonable. But. The NFL has brought onto itself complete mistrust from the players that they will be treated fairly. The legacy of one Roger Goodell. Nobody trusts him.

  52. Trailer…yes Bird took the balls into the bathroom in after walking by many NFL game staff and officials..it is on tape what is your point…you have spewed often about truth and honesty. Try it some time it feels good

  53. Mike Neal is a Free Agent and believes this matter is the reason he’s not gotten any offers at all, and he’s probably right. Mike wants to do the interview and get this resolved as soon as possible. But the NFLPA can’t just let the league office go on a fishing expedition without any due process for the players. Neal is between a rock and a hard place right now.

  54. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:30 PM

    chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:15 PM
    Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth.
    ———-
    So the truth is the deflator took the game balls to the bathroom. Thanks for making that clear.
    ———————————————————-
    You know what else is clear? The Patriot organization provided the video that showed him going into the restroom. Nobody ever denied that he did. Also crystal clear is that no intentional deflation took place as science clearly proves. Finally, painfully clear is that the Colts balls also tested below legal limits yet somehow skated scott free. Thanks for playing. No parting gifts for you.

  55. I believe the NFL needs more than a recanted statement. They need to
    interview the declarant with a confidentially clause executed by both parties.
    The one thing that does puzzle me is if you asked current players who
    among the players would you suspect of hgh use, these names would likely get a lot of votes.

  56. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:29 PM
    lscottman3-

    I’m talking about the transcripts of the phone records indicating communication about the issue of ball tampering. And the destruction of the phone containing those records creating a presumption of questionability and perhaps guilt.
    =================================
    Whatever contact Brady had with those 2 were on their cell phones, which were turned in to the league and the Wells’ investigation.

  57. Just as a quick reminder to the troglodytes on here screaming about cell phones and alleged nicknames, it is a FACT that the patriot footballs were not deflated. There is nothing to debate. No room for other points of view. It is a fact. And anyone who can master high school level physics knows this.

  58. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:29 PM
    lscottman3-

    I’m talking about the transcripts of the phone records indicating communication about the issue of ball tampering.

    —————————————————————

    Not sure what you expect from “transcripts” of phone records.
    Do you know what “transcript” means in the legal context?

    Also:
    1. The complete phone log was submitted to NFL during the initial appeal hearing.
    2. Transcripts of phone calls do not exist. At best, they would want text messages- all of which they got from Bird and JJ’s phones. The phone log Brady provided matched timestamps exactly with data recovered from JJ’s phone. There was never any phone communication between Bird and Brady.

    Your ignorance is really on full display today.

  59. There are already clear rules in place for what the NFL may do and may not do, and then the NFL ignores the rules and does what it wants.

    It seems to be the age we live in, the rules be darned, do whatever you can get away with doing.

  60. infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:38 PM
    chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:15 PM

    Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Why bother engaging in back n forth with extremely biased posters?

    There’s not shortage of them here because they don’t have a modern day NFL Dynasty in their home town.
    You Haters are so painfully transparent, you’d tell us the moon is made of cheese and Hillary doesn’t lie if it helps your anti-NE cause.

    Pathetic. Move on with your life

    2 0
    Hey it seems Mr Pot is talking to Mr Kettle again. Infectorman you are by far the most biased homer on here you have no shame….your mom would be upset with you.

  61. The level of stupidity between VenerableAxiom, eaglesnoles05, and trailerparking is laughable at this point.

    You got one guy wondering why Brady didn’t release the transcript of his phone records to the public (huh?), one guy thinking the fact that everyone admits McNally took the game balls into the bathroom means he is guilty even though from Day 1 no one has ever denied him actually taking the balls into the bathroom, and finally, another guy who still thinks McNally’s nickname was the Deflator even though he only referred to himself as that one time in May 2014 and its been universally mentioned by current and ex-Pats that his nickname was Bird. You people are something else.

  62. “It’s pretty obvious he only recanted because he feared the legal backlash of admitting to crimes on video.”

    ———–

    The inverse is actually more logical. As an intern, he would never be on the hook for prescription fraud – the Guyer doctors and/or pharmacists would.

    Instead, he likely feared being sued for defamation once his anonymity was compromised.

  63. Imodan, my parting gift is the Patriots were fined $1 million and docked two draft picks — a first-rounder in 2016 and a fourth-rounder in 2017 — by the NFL after an investigation found that star quarterback Tom Brady was “at least generally aware” of a scheme to illegally deflate footballs for the AFC Championship Game, and as of now is facing suspension. Would you like to continue playing?

  64. To all you patriot or Brady haters, here’s a taste of the crap we’ve had to deal with for the last almost 10 years. Goodell has now turned his sites on Peyton. Hope you enjoy what you wrought when you decided to blindly hate and back him rather than actually check the facts.

    I may not be a fan of Peyton the choker, but I hope he’s innocent and the NFL oversteps again just so maybe we can finally get rid of the idiocy that infests the NFL right now because you dummies will finally realize how bad it is and start whining.

  65. infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:41 PM
    @venerableaxiom;

    do you have any points to make?
    LOL chucklehead
    ——-
    chucklehead, the patriots were fined $1 million and docked two draft picks — a first-rounder in 2016 and a fourth-rounder in 2017 — by the NFL after an investigation found that star quarterback Tom Brady was “at least generally aware” of a scheme to illegally deflate footballs for the AFC Championship Game, and as of now is facing suspension.
    Any additional questions?

  66. nofoolnodrool says:
    Jul 1, 2016 4:00 PM

    infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:38 PM
    chuckshontaspads says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:15 PM

    Again trailerpark….his nickname was Bird..Brady knew him only as Bird.. he called himself the deflator ONCE in may of 2014…. if you are going to spew, spew the truth

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Why bother engaging in back n forth withextremely biased posters?

    There’s not shortage of them here because they don’t have a modern day NFL Dynasty in their home town.
    You Haters are so painfully transparent, you’d tell us the moon is made of cheese and Hillary doesn’t lie if it helps your anti-NE cause.

    Pathetic. Move on with your life

    2 0
    Hey it seems Mr Pot is talking to Mr Kettle again. Infectorman you are by far the most biased homer on here you have no shame….your mom would be upset with you.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    BAHAHAHAHA!!!
    seriously?
    That’s the best you got?

    I used to think you were in the top 25 of the thousands of delusional Goodell suckers/ Pats haters on here.
    But you just knocked yourself down a few hundred pegs. Not good.
    Retrench, work on your material, come back strong another day, delusional-boy
    LMAO

    The New England Patriots:
    the LAST NFL Dynasty.

  67. “It’s no surprise that a person who said one thing when he didn’t realize he was being recorded said something else once the syntax hit the fan.”

    Exactly, Sly’s statements may or may not have been braggadocio but his recanting doesn’t obviate the fact that he gave Collins (the undercover guy in the report) an injection and set up a regimen for him. All while being a partner in a ‘nutrition’ outfit and a fitness center where Neal and many other NFL players worked out. It is certainly a situation that bears looking into. On the other hand the league office is sieve of harmful ‘leaks’ and mistruths that has misrepresented players testimony and private communications in the past as well as having a demonstrable track record of working backwards from predetermined conclusions. Of course the players don’t trust them, who would?

    The union and players standpoints are easy to understand. From where they sit it’s a matter of cooperate and your testimony may be interpreted as saying whatever the league wants it too, fail to cooperate and you will be punished anyway. The well is truly poisoned, this is the league reaping what it has sown.

  68. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 4:42 PM

    infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:41 PM
    @venerableaxiom;

    do you have any points to make?
    LOL chucklehead
    ——-
    chucklehead, the patriots were fined $1 million and docked two draft picks — a first-rounder in 2016 and a fourth-rounder in 2017 — by the NFL after an investigation found that star quarterback Tom Brady was “at least generally aware” of a scheme to illegally deflate footballs for the AFC Championship Game, and as of now is facing suspension.
    Any additional questions?

    First a comment and then a question.
    First; you really ought to change your name because you’re giving Venerable Axioms around the globe a really bad name.

    Question(s): What IS your point?

    Are you one the 16 people remaining in the world that believes Exponent’s claims that 2nd hand smoke was not dangerous to inhale?

    Do you believe the moon is made of cheese?
    Do you believe Politicians don’t lie?
    Do you believe the Easter Bunny really exists or Santa Claus?

    Do you really believe you deserve a screen name with the word “venerable” in it, given pure lunacy of your posts?

    I know everyone on here is wondering that same thing

  69. infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 4:59 PM

    “Do you really believe you deserve a screen name with the word “venerable” in it, given pure lunacy of your posts?”
    ——–
    If anyone here deserves to be considered a lunatic, it would be you considering the meandering and meaningless post you compose. I purposely got that post verbatim from a well known pats beat writer, assuming of course, someone decided to question it. You can believe anything you wish, I am simply giving you the facts, point by point. Live with it.

  70. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:30 PM

    So the truth is the deflator took the game balls to the bathroom. Thanks for making that clear.
    ————————

    Making it clear? Everyone, except for you apparently, has known that for over a year.

  71. mmack66 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 5:17 PM
    VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 3:30 PM

    So the truth is the deflator took the game balls to the bathroom. Thanks for making that clear.
    ————————

    Making it clear? Everyone, except for you apparently, has known that for over a year.
    ——–
    Really. Seems many a pat fan have swept it from their memory.

  72. BAHAHAHAHA!!!
    seriously?
    That’s the best you got?

    I used to think you were in the top 25 of the thousands of delusional Goodell suckers/ Pats haters on here.
    But you just knocked yourself down a few hundred pegs. Not good.
    Retrench, work on your material, come back strong another day, delusional-boy
    LMAO

    The New England Patriots:
    the LAST NFL Dynasty.

    I guess by insulting someone you are acknowledging being an insecure homer?

    Like many threads it is taken over by butt sore Pat’s fans. Get over it everything is not about you.

    If the NFL wants to investigate and you are clean you have nothing to hide just do it. You should be subjected to random tests at anytime , even the Pats

  73. Nofoolnodrool says:
    Jul 1, 2016 5:57 PM
    I guess by insulting someone you are acknowledging being an insecure homer?
    ===============

    As opposed to when you do it?

  74. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 5:16 PM

    infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 4:59 PM

    “Do you really believe you deserve a screen name with the word “venerable” in it, given pure lunacy of your posts?”
    ——–
    If anyone here deserves to be considered a lunatic, it would be you considering the meandering and meaningless post you compose. I purposely got that post verbatim from a well known pats beat writer, assuming of course, someone decided to question it. You can believe anything you wish, I am simply giving you the facts, point by point. Live with it.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    VA: let me help you out a little with the gist of my “meandering and meaningless post” since the humor in it is completely lost on you.

    Facts? Point by Point?

    Do we really need to go into ALL OF THE FACTS that prove Goofdell, Wells, Pash, Grigson et al launched this ” investigation” with a clearly defined outcome for which they shaped the entire laughable Wells report around?

    The punishment, that you so astutely point out as a fact (thanks by the way, I hadn’t heard NE/Brady were punished until YOU JUST TOLD ME) is a result of the “in ves ti ga tion”.

    I can’t decide what makes me laugh more, the “FACT” that you and your ilk actually believe in the fairness, credibility or “evidence” of the investigation or the “FACT” that it is such a joke of an investigation upon which they actually had the stones to render an outrageously absurd judgment and punishment.

    Therefore, I bring up your apparent naiveté in relation to other well known myths, that most people, upon reaching adulthood, recognize as just that; myths.

    It seems clear that since you believe in Goodells’ punishment, you also believe in his fairytale “investigation” and it follows that you must believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and Frosty the Snowman.
    I know this must be difficult for you to follow since you’ve revealed to everyone here that you struggle with abstract and associative thinking.
    Hopefully that helps.
    I’m here for ya’, Bud

  75. @nofoolnodrool.

    I did not insult you.

    I laughed at your post , especially cause you went down the “mother” route.
    That’s like a feeble last resort when you know you’ve been bested.

    Wave your white flag.
    Game over

  76. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 5:46 PM
    ——–
    Really. Seems many a pat fan have swept it from their memory.

    ________________________________________

    Not sure if you’re trolling here but I’ll bite.

    You’re incorrect in stating that this forum is full of Pats fans. You are rightfully catching flak for regurgitating stale talking points that have been largely discredited, and you are looking through a very narrow lens at the wrong facts.

    The facts of the case remain that, after a lengthy investigation, the single “Deflator” text message and the 90 second disappearance of the balls are the only pieces of evidence that an NFL rule was violated. In some opinions, that’s all the evidence needed.

    In favor of an NFL rule not being violated, you have the cadre of scientists that conclude the footballs was not deflated. You have a text from Jastremski to his girlfriend saying that the balls are “supposed to be 12.5” (why would he say that if he was engaged in a scheme to deflate the balls?). You have the NFL admitting in federal court that they don’t have any evidence that Brady cheated, or that the balls were not legal. You also have many other instances of similar rules infractions where drastically different decisions were made regarding discipline.

    I think there is a plurality of non-NE fans who have looked at this story and concluded that the most likely scenario was this: The NFL league office responded to a complaint, measured the balls, failed to take pressure laws into account, and overplayed their hand to the media during Superbowl week. NFL owners gleefully pressed Goodell to make the case that the Pats cheated. When it became clear they didn’t have any evidence of rules violations, they filled in the holes with smart propaganda and legalese to conclude that Brady himself is a cheater. And now, since everyone is on to the NFL’s scheme to level the playing field, they will be questioned for every disciplinary measure they take.

  77. Here’s the truth about all you Brady/Pats lovers/haters — you’re all biased because of your love or hate of Brady or the Pats.
    I am a Packers fan, so I have no dog in the Goodell/Brady fight. Here are my opinions, though:
    1. Goodell saw a chance to redeem himself because he screwed up the Ray Rice problem so badly. So, when the Colts whined about the alleged deflated footballs, he jumped all over it. He also wants to make sure he keeps his absolute authority over the players, and this gave him the opportunity to test it.
    2. I believe Tom Brady did ask someone to let some air out of the balls, and he got caught. I wouldn’t doubt if he’s done it before. However, in my opinion, the amount of air which was allegedly let out of those balls meant nothing in the outcome of that game. The Colts were an inferior team and the Pats would beat them 100 times out of 100. Further, the NFL could solve this problem once and for all by letting each teams’ offense play with the ball of their choice and be done with it. They could give them leeway on the air pressure of 1 psi either way.
    3. Tom Brady is without question one of the top QB’s whoever played in the NFL and he’s a shoo-in as a Hall Of Famer. If he isn’t, they should tear the place down.
    4. This game is being ruined by all the controversies which now dominate the NFL news. Whether it’s players who are breaking the rules and laws, owners who are doing something illegal, the rules being re-written, teams sticking the taxpayers with huge bills for their playhouses, all of this crap is ruining the game for many long-time NFL fans such as me.
    5. Finally, all you fans who are calling the Patriots cheaters are being so snobbish. Because there has been cheating in the NFL for as long as the league has been around. Whether it was Deacon Jones wrapping his forearms so he could use them as weapons against the “O” linemen’s head, or players going after other players knees, or bounties on players by teams, or spying on other teams’ practices, or using stickum as Jerry Rice admitted to, or cheating with the salary cap as the Broncos and 49’ers got caught doing, there has always been cheating. So let’s get off your high horses and stop being so arrogant, because your favorite teams have cheated, too.
    My Packers are no different. They had a bounty on players under HC Forrest Greg, a very sad moment in Packers history. DE Charles Martin wore a towel with Bears players’ numbers on it that he later admitted was a hit list.
    So grow up all you Patriots/Brady haters, because every team has had sad moments in their history because of cheating.

  78. Patriot Hater is getting funnier and funnier by the day! 🙂

    The blatant hypocrisy mixed in with the inane babbling is comedy gold!

    🙂

  79. It’s almost over Patriot Hater. 🙂 It really is! 🙂 Brady isn’t sitting one game.

    Suckers. You really thought your puny little weakling team was going to get away with this fraud didn’t ya.

    🙂

  80. There are many reasons to believe PEDton Manning* is a dirty filthy PED cheat but the league’s word should be irrelevant to all intelligent football fans. They simply cannot be trusted on anything. Patriot Fan should know this.

    The league front office needs an enema starting right from the top.

  81. Peyton and his daddy Archie have 2 men visit Sly “for some unknown reason” and then he suddenly recants the story. Watch the video of him recanting the story and it looks like it was written for him by somebody(the men who visited him)? For some reason, a league partner did not mention that in the story. Peyton has several major surgeries and recovers so well that he is able to break every major passing record and somehow people want to believe the story that his wife was receiving the HGH?? I guess he can get away with it because he choked so much in big games that fans don’t hate him so much! Think about that haters!

  82. infectorman says:
    Jul 1, 2016 6:26 PM

    It seems clear that since you believe in Goodells’ punishment, you also believe in his fairytale “investigation” and it follows that you must believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and Frosty the Snowman.
    I know this must be difficult for you to follow since you’ve revealed to everyone here that you struggle with abstract and associative thinking.
    Hopefully that helps.
    I’m here for ya’, Bud
    ———-
    I’m sorry you’re so frustrated as evidenced by additional repetitive nonsense. However, whether I believe in the punishment or Frosty, is irrelevant. The pats have been punished for the said violation, and brady is next. So you can take all your conspiracy theories and flush them since they are meaningless.

  83. larryodavid says:
    Jul 1, 2016 6:42 PM
    VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 5:46 PM
    ——–
    Really. Seems many a pat fan have swept it from their memory.

    ________________________________________

    Not sure if you’re trolling here but I’ll bite.

    You’re incorrect in stating that this forum is full of Pats fans. You are rightfully catching flak for regurgitating stale talking points that have been largely discredited, and you are looking through a very narrow lens at the wrong facts.
    ————
    So I assume “looking through a very narrow lens at the wrong facts”, is in effect, not agreeing with the convoluted statements from pats fans.

  84. It’s amusing seeing Pats fans thinking they are the first team that was aggrieved by Roger Goodell. In fact, James Harrison and the Steelers were subjected to a totally one-sided and arbitrary fine-and-penalty regime during the NFL’s anti-hitting campaign of 2010 and then 2011.

    BECAUSE of this the Steelers were THE ONLY TEAM that DID NOT VOTE FOR the CBA in 2011. Of course, Pats fans (and all other fans) scorned the Steelers for this…

  85. Like @nyneal I am an NFC guy whose team has beaten NE rather than been beaten by them in a SB so I don’t have a dog in the fight. I have to admit when that whole 2 PSI under thing came out I figured some type of chicanery had gone on although it was hard to imagine why anybody would want a ball that low. I set a ball at 10.2 and the feel was just off. It made no sense, it if felt hinky to me what would it feel like to guys who have spent their lives never mind earn their living handling them? It made no sense. Nobody would want the ball at 10.2. The more I thought about it the more I got a gnawing feeling that somebody either willfully used a defective gauge or otherwise manipulated the numbers. Otherwise why wouldn’t the league have corrected the falsehood? When the correct numbers finally did come out the fact the league let the false report sit out there had my bs meter pinged all the way over. After I read the Wells Report it became obvious that it was crafted to fit a foregone conclusion, the ‘science’ even contained it’s own legally face saving admissions of inadequacy hidden in the footnotes. I was astounded any punishment was handed out on something so obviously slanted and fool of holes. Then came the email string between the league office and the Patriots in house counsel in which they practically begged the league to release the correct information. If those real numbers had been released at the beginning this whole mess would have been stillborn. If you haven’t yet read those emails please go read them. Once you have the only way you can see framegate as anything other than a witch hunt is because you want or need to. Even if you are a fan of another AFCE team or one of NE’s other traditional whipping boys and simply hate the Pats nothing justifies the actions of the league office as evidenced by those emails.

    It doesn’t matter why the league did it, personally I think they needed a very big W against a very big star after too many embarrassments. Read that email string and you can be left with no reasonable doubt it was a bag job from shortly after, if not before, the word go.

  86. TebowedOutOfThePostSeasonsAndNeverToReturn says:
    Jul 1, 2016 8:09 PM

    It’s amusing seeing Pats fans thinking they are the first team that was aggrieved by Roger Goodell. In fact, James Harrison and the Steelers were subjected to a totally one-sided and arbitrary fine-and-penalty regime during the NFL’s anti-hitting campaign of 2010 and then 2011.
    ——–
    Fins’ lost a left tackle and left guard mid season in “Incognitogate”, another example.

  87. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 7:17 PM
    So I assume “looking through a very narrow lens at the wrong facts”, is in effect, not agreeing with the convoluted statements from pats fans.
    ==================

    What isn’t lost on this non Pats fan observer is that a disproportionate share of those narrow lenses are tinted aqua green & orange, green & white, buffalo blue, colts blue, black & gold or ‘Hawks green and very few are oh…for example let’s say royal blue with red & white or dark green & yellow or red, yellow & white or… well, you get the point.

  88. jag1959 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 8:35 PM

    VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 7:17 PM
    So I assume “looking through a very narrow lens at the wrong facts”, is in effect, not agreeing with the convoluted statements from pats fans.
    ==================

    What isn’t lost on this non Pats fan observer is that a disproportionate share of those narrow lenses are tinted aqua green & orange, green & white, buffalo blue, colts blue, black & gold or ‘Hawks green and very few are oh…for example let’s say royal blue with red & white or dark green & yellow or red, yellow & white or… well, you get the point.
    ———
    For some, it goes back well before 1995.

  89. I know every fan has heard “your team is next”. It’s the truth. Goodell ruined the Ray Rice situation and he went after the Patriots to get his bosses off his *ss. Goodell is ruining football with these “investigations”. Enough is enough! Roger should’ve been a PI, then he can investigate non stop. Also why wait 7 months to do something?
    Not a fan of Harrison, but I love what he said about this. Goodell needs to go. Wake up people!

  90. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 8:56 PM

    For some, it goes back well before 1995.
    ________________

    And there you have it. Nothing to do with what’s right just long term hate and insecurity. Yet previously you agreed that not deciding things on their own merits was about being hurt:

    “…which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    More PR/human psychology misfirings….
    ——–
    You are correct sir. Otherwise, they would not care.”

    You only care because you hate NE yet call them out because they care about their team. Yeah, that’s credible.

  91. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 2:48 PM

    If Brady wanted the transcripts made public, why didn’t he publicize them? Probably didn’t want them to be made public so bad as he wanted to be able to say that he wanted them made public, huh? Wonder why that is? Must be for no reason at all, let’s just forget it all- he is the best QB of all time anyway.

    The league was fighting to keep them sealed you really are horrible at being a troll

  92. eaglesnoles05 says:
    Jul 1, 2016 2:48 PM

    If Brady wanted the transcripts made public, why didn’t he publicize them? Probably didn’t want them to be made public so bad as he wanted to be able to say that he wanted them made public, huh? Wonder why that is? Must be for no reason at all, let’s just forget it all- he is the best QB of all time anyway.

    The league was fighting to keep them sealed you really are horrible at being a troll–

    ______________________________________

    Brady is the best QB of his era, in my opinion. He is not the best QB of all time, however (also my opinion).
    You cannot compare the QB’s of today — who have all the rules which have made to help and protect them — with QB’s of the past who did not have those rules.
    Here are some QB’s who were every bit as good as Tom Brady and would have put up gaudy numbers too had they had the rules which are in place today:
    Sammy Baugh
    Otto Graham
    Bob Waterfield
    Bobby Layne
    Johnny Unitas
    Bart Starr
    Sonny Jurgensen

    I’d also include QB’s who did play under some of the rules which they play under today as being right there with Brady:
    Dan Marino
    Joe Montana
    Dan Fouts
    John Elway
    Brett Favre
    Steve Young

    And of course, there’s Peyton Manning. These guys were all QB’s who possessed unique abilities and could beat anyone they played at any time. I did this off the top of my head, so I might have missed a few others.
    Brady is a great QB and I take nothing away from him, but “best ever” is always a slippery slope.
    Some will say I left off Terry Bradshaw, Joe Namath, and Troy Aikman. I did that on purpose, because I don’t think they rank with the guys I listed.
    Yes, Bradshaw won 4 Super Bowls. But he had one of the best teams around him ever assembled and his defense was maybe the best ever during those years. And he had a great running game, too. Joe Namath had more interceptions in his career than touchdowns. Enough said. And Troy Aikman had maybe the best “O” line ever with a great running game and excellent WR’s and TE’s. Go back and watch film of him when he did get pressured or when the weather wasn’t perfect and you’ll see why I left him off.
    I included Bart Starr because Starr is the most under-rated passer ever, in my view. He was deadly accurate and always made clutch throws in every championship game he won, which is more than anyone, by the way.
    By the way, if I had to name the “best QB ever”, I’d pick Johnny Unitas. He could do it all and he and Raymond Berry were Joe Montana and Jerry Rice before they were.
    I still have sports magazines from the 1960’s and the two top QB’s of that era were Unitas and Starr. They could do it all.

  93. @venerableaxiom

    “However, whether I believe in the punishment or Frosty, is irrelevant. The pats have been punished for the said violation, and brady is next. So you can take all your conspiracy theories and flush them since they are meaningless.”

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Got to be the most conveniently myopic statement I’ve read in many years on this site.

    You could not be more wrong, VA. And you’re fatalist slant in your statement is diametrically opposed with the vast majority of NFL Football fans nationwide who all can see the forest through the trees. Framegate has shattered the entire country’s image of the NFL brass and now 345 Park Avenue is viewed with disdain, distrust and sheer contempt.
    Haters like your self NEED this punishment to be legit. You NEED it to exist in a vacuum.
    Without that, every anti NE post you’ve spent so much of your life time on this planet becomes meaningless and meandering- even though we all know it is anyway.
    You refuse to look beyond the cover of the book that is Goodell, Wells, Pash, Grigson etc.

    That is scary. Do you also think Hillary didn’t expose Top secret information to our enemies by running her own slipshod, unsecured server, simply because she says so?

    I fear for this country if this ignorant, shortsighted Sgt Shultz mindset is what we have to look forward to.

    Happy Trails moving on with your blinders on

  94. It’s also amusing to me that the thumbs up/thumbs down ratio’s on these comment varieties seem to suggest that there are predominantly patriots fans lurking on this article… which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    More PR/human psychology misfirings….

    ———————————————-

    They will never admit, though, that the NFL was on their side when Roger Godell burned the spygate tapes and was BFF with Robert Kraft. They will tell you that Brady destroyed his cell phone because of security, yet most cell phones have a feature called reset to factory settings which wipes all the data. Brady, though, will try to convince all New England homers that he destroyed his cell phone because he was afraid that the NFL will leak Giselle’s naked pictures.

  95. Haters like your self NEED this punishment to be legit. You NEED it to exist in a vacuum.
    Without that, every anti NE post you’ve spent so much of your life time on this planet becomes meaningless and meandering- even though we all know it is anyway.
    You refuse to look beyond the cover of the book that is Goodell, Wells, Pash, Grigson etc.

    ————————————————————

    If the Patriots have the science on their side, why they didn’t conduct experiments last season to debunk all the myths and lies? Were they really expecting the NFL (the accusers and liers) to collet and release the data about PSI results? They will say that an MIT guy, a Princeton guy is in our side, yet they are unable to test their theory on the field and silent the haters. If Kraft is so sure that the NFL is framing Brady and the team, why he did not ask for data to be collected during Patriots games or why didn’t the Patriots independently did that?

  96. tajuara says:
    Jul 2, 2016 11:22 AM
    If the Patriots have the science on their side…
    ==================

    This stopped being about deflation long before Wells even hired Exponent. NE could have tested a 1000 footballs and no troll would accept their numbers. No scientist outside of the NFL’s hired guns have supported the league. Not only have a plethora dogged the NFL for it’s ‘findings’ and 21 of national repute filed an amicus brief declaiming them but even even outfits like The Science News magazine have mocked it. Not one credible uncompensated source has backed the league’s science and even the NFL has distanced itself from the inconvenient ruth Give it a rest. PSI has nothing to do with this being pursued and probably never did

  97. tajuara says:
    Jul 2, 2016 11:22 AM
    If the Patriots have the science on their side, why they didn’t conduct experiments last season to debunk all the myths and lies? Were they really expecting the NFL (the accusers and liers) to collet and release the data about PSI results? They will say that an MIT guy, a Princeton guy is in our side, yet they are unable to test their theory on the field and silent the haters. If Kraft is so sure that the NFL is framing Brady and the team, why he did not ask for data to be collected during Patriots games or why didn’t the Patriots independently did that?
    ========================
    Given that the Wells report, AEI report, and a dozen nationwide scientists all agree that what occurred was natural science, why would they? It was the NFL who collected data and then refused to release it.

  98. jag1959 says:
    Jul 2, 2016 9:29 AM

    VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 1, 2016 8:56 PM

    For some, it goes back well before 1995.
    ________________

    And there you have it. Nothing to do with what’s right just long term hate and insecurity. Yet previously you agreed that not deciding things on their own merits was about being hurt:

    “…which seems to be more about being hurt about what happened to the pats and wanting to condemn others than looking at these new issues on their merits, since they are factually irrelevant to the Pats “alleged” scandal.

    More PR/human psychology misfirings….
    ——–
    You are correct sir. Otherwise, they would not care.”

    You only care because you hate NE yet call them out because they care about their team. Yeah, that’s credible.
    ======
    Not speaking of myself. I’m merely stating the facts, again.

  99. You are placing your opinion above what is actually written or applied in the CBA. There are 2 sides here. If the CBA does not expressly say the league can conduct interviews, it likely does not say they can’t either. Your position is predicated on knowing what evidence the league has. The only way that is at all relevant here is if there actually was a violation that the player needs to hide. Knowing what the league knows allows the player to lie about the situation. Innocent people KNOW they did nothing wrong, therefor there is no evidence to worry about and would have no problem telling the truth in any inquiry. A fervent defense indicates there is quite possibly something to hide. Calling it a fight for rights is just a ploy to make the actions seem reasonable.

  100. infectorman says:
    Jul 2, 2016 10:36 AM

    @venerableaxiom

    “However, whether I believe in the punishment or Frosty, is irrelevant. The pats have been punished for the said violation, and brady is next. So you can take all your conspiracy theories and flush them since they are meaningless.”

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    Got to be the most conveniently myopic statement I’ve read in many years on this site.

    That is scary. Do you also think Hillary didn’t expose Top secret information to our enemies by running her own slipshod, unsecured server, simply because she says so?

    I fear for this country if this ignorant, shortsighted Sgt Shultz mindset is what we have to look forward to.

    Happy Trails moving on with your blinders on
    ==============================
    Really. I’m sorry you’re scared and in fear (especially over irrelevant topics). You and all the other basement “lawyers” and “scientist” are wasting your time and effort. You, are the minority Don Quixote.

  101. Here are some QB’s who were every bit as good as Tom Brady and would have put up gaudy numbers too had they had the rules which are in place today:

    —–

    I would have loved to see how those guys would have done with a modern playbook… FAR more complex than the playbook they used back then. It’s like night and day.

    The quarterback also wasn’t THE MAN on the team back then like they are expected to be today, and there was a good reason for that.

    While that is true about the rulebook… with all due respect….people who romanticize the past eras of the league forget these things sometimes. 🙂

  102. goodellMustGo says:
    Jul 2, 2016 6:52 PM

    Here are some QB’s who were every bit as good as Tom Brady and would have put up gaudy numbers too had they had the rules which are in place today:

    —–

    The quarterback also wasn’t THE MAN on the team back then like they are expected to be today, and there was a good reason for that.

    While that is true about the rulebook… with all due respect….people who romanticize the past eras of the league forget these things sometimes.:)
    ========
    On the contrary, prior to the days of microphones in helmets, most QB’s basically called the whole game while the coach looked on. So, in more ways than current QB’s, they were THE MAN.

  103. Realistically you can’t compare era to era. The heck with the rules changes there are always rule changes, more than anything else the cap has changed everything. Many of the greats mentioned above had the luxury of not seeing their supporting cast change all that much over the course of their careers, that lead to a lot of wins. Real free agency didn’t hit the NFL until ’92, prior to that it was ‘Plan B’ where well off teams just wrote bigger checks to keep their guys. Sure offensive numbers have spiked since the league got Polianed in ’06 but part of the greatness of football is it is about more than stats. Stats aren’t the ultimate measure of QB greatness, wins and losses are. There’s a reason only the QB position has wins and losses in their personal stat line. Rules wise every era can only be compared to itself. But winning percentage inside the cap era is a realistic measure of how a QB did with what he had around him as compared to his peers. And in the cap era we will probably see 20 years down the road that career winning percentage for a QB with a 100+ starts may end up being the best metric we can go by. As for comparing all time greats that’s impossible. Would Montana or Marino have put up the numbers they did with constantly shifting casts around them? How much better would Fouts have been if there were true FA and SD could have spent an equal amount to a Dallas or SF? We can never know. It’s not baseball, there’s more to it than a collection of individuals.

  104. On the contrary, prior to the days of microphones in helmets, most QB’s basically called the whole game while the coach looked on. So, in more ways than current QB’s, they were THE MAN.


    Not that hard to do when your playbook basically consists of a couple of variations of “Pass Long” “Pass Short” or “Run” 🙂

    A lot of these playbooks are online if you’d like to see for yourself.

    People romanticize the greats of the past but let’s see how they would do with the expectations of today’s quarterback. I’d guess not very well. 🙂 Today’s quarterback must be not only skilled but very intelligent. Not saying QBs of the past weren’t intelligent but it just wasn’t as important.

  105. reason only the QB position has wins and losses in their personal stat line. Rules wise every era can only be compared to itself. But winning percentage inside the cap era is a realistic measure of how a QB did with what he had around him as compared to his peers.

    Yup. Wins and rings are what it’s all about. That’s the only objective and tangible way to compare quarterbacks across eras.

    Who has the most postseason wins as a starter in history? 🙂

    And people usually bring up the “yeah but Dilfer…” argument here. But ever notice that guys like a Trent Dilfer, Rypien, Brad Johnson etc will never win more than one ring? 🙂 And guys like Brady, Ben and others win multiple? There’s a reason for that. 🙂

  106. This about sums it up perfectly …

    “With #Deflategate being an exercise in jumping to an uninformed conclusion and then launching an investigation aimed not at getting to the truth but justifying a predetermined outcome”

  107. FinFan68 says:
    Jul 2, 2016 3:26 PM
    Innocent people KNOW they did nothing wrong, therefor there is no evidence to worry about and would have no problem telling the truth in any inquiry.
    ====================
    Tom Brady is laughing at your naivety.

  108. tajuara says:
    Jul 2, 2016 11:22 AM
    If the Patriots have the science on their side, why they didn’t conduct experiments last season to debunk all the myths and lies? Were they really expecting the NFL (the accusers and liers) to collet and release the data about PSI results? They will say that an MIT guy, a Princeton guy is in our side, yet they are unable to test their theory on the field and silent the haters. If Kraft is so sure that the NFL is framing Brady and the team, why he did not ask for data to be collected during Patriots games or why didn’t the Patriots independently did that?
    ================
    To clarify, you want the Patriots to repeat experiments from dozens of other people that already exonerate them?!?!?!? Simply put, the outlier is the fiction the NFL hired Exponent to produce.

    You’re simply kidding yourself if you think that data from the Patriots game would have changed anything. Forget about the excuse makers pointing to a Patriots sponsored data collection effort on ball deflation.

  109. fireroger says:
    Jul 6, 2016 12:57 PM
    FinFan68 says:
    Jul 2, 2016 3:26 PM
    Innocent people KNOW they did nothing wrong, therefor there is no evidence to worry about and would have no problem telling the truth in any inquiry.
    ====================
    Tom Brady is laughing at your naivety.
    ~~~~~~
    Actually, if you believe he did absolutely nothing wrong at all, he is laughing at yours.

  110. FinFan68 says:
    Jul 6, 2016 1:41 PM
    Actually, if you believe he did absolutely nothing wrong at all, he is laughing at yours.
    ==================
    I’m not suggesting that at all. All I’m saying is telling the truth would not have stopped Goodell from lying at the appeal hearing. Or the more than obvious attempt to bend science to a preconceived conclusion. It’s silly to suggest otherwise. There’s more than enough to suggest that was true well before Deflategate.

  111. VenerableAxiom says:
    Jul 2, 2016 6:12 PM
    ==============================
    Really. I’m sorry you’re scared and in fear (especially over irrelevant topics). You and all the other basement “lawyers” and “scientist” are wasting your time and effort. You, are the minority Don Quixote.
    ________________________________________

    This is not an inquisition. For all those paying attention it is blatantly obvious that the NFL pushed the punishment (probably illegally) to appease an owner group that was convinced (without proof) the Pats were cheaters.

    The best argument for this can be found in similar cheating allegations against other teams/players. Why is this the first instance where this particular rule is enforced? Is this really steroids? If you are arguing the guilt of Brady, provide something that backs up your claim. Is there anything?

    Pay attention, and don’t believe everything everyone says. 21 scientists, labor law and lots of lawyers agree that this is a hit-job on the Patriots. Don’t be complicit in their manipulation of football fans.

    (sidenote: it’s ridiculous for commenters to say that “oh, it just cause Pats commenters dominate these stories”. What? This is a football blog, visited by fans of all teams and this story has nothing to do with the Patriots.)

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