How often does random PSI testing happen?

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In response to #Deflategate, the NFL began conducting random testing of football air pressure — not in order to establish a database of actual changes in PSI levels but as a deterrent against deliberately taking air out of (or, in theory, adding air to) the footballs used by a given team. So how often did the league randomly test football air pressure?

Specific numbers haven’t been provided, but referee Ronald Torbert recently told Ben Volin of the Boston Globe that Torbert’s crew had it happen only once last year. With 17 crews and with each crew, like each team, getting a bye, that’s 16 regular-season games per crew. For Torbert’s crew, that’s one random PSI test in 16 games. If each crew had it happen once, that’s a total of 17 PSI spot checks during the 2015 regular season.

Regardless of the number of PSI spot checks, no one knows what the process revealed because the league has opted to treat the information as completely and totally confidential. Which feeds natural suspicion that: (1) the league knows PSI levels naturally drop in cold-weather games; and (2) the league doesn’t want the media or the public to be able to compare PSI levels that dropped below 12.5 during a game to the numbers generated in the Colts-Patriots playoff game that resulted in a presumption of cheating and, in the opinion of some, a multi-million-dollar effort to work backward from that presumption of cheating to prove that cheating occurred. (For the record, I am one of the “some” who believe that’s what occurred.)

It’s still not even completely clear who has seen the numbers on the gauges from the random tests. Torbert told Volin that the individual officiating crews log the PSI numbers at halftime of the games involving spot checks. Previously, however, NFL officiating chief Dean Blandino told PFT Live that NFL Security handles the random testing, that NFL Security obtains the PSI information, and that NFL Security doesn’t disclose it to the officials working the games.

“We kept track of the footballs pregame and then the spot check, that’s really NFL Security is involved in that,” Blandino said on July 19. “So on the officiating side, we weren’t involved in the PSI and that part of it. We really were focusing on the chain of custody and the protocol and who had access to the footballs and how they were getting from point A to point B before the game. . . . NFL Security would log that [PSI] information and that’s how the procedure took place.”

The clearest takeaway from the various snippets of information that have emerged over the past year regarding random PSI testing is that the NFL wants to be sure that only a small handful of people know what the measurements were. The absence of transparency in contrast to a controversy in which, via the Ted Wells report and the Tom Brady suspension, appeal, and litigation, all facts were made available ad nauseum serves only to feed suspicion that the NFL doesn’t want anyone to know the numbers harvested by the random process — and that the NFL doesn’t want anyone to know the numbers because the NFL knows it will become even harder to justify a finding of cheating in connection with the January 2015 AFC Championship if people have the ability to analyze the PSI numbers generated during the 2015 season.

244 responses to “How often does random PSI testing happen?

  1. This is going to be the storyline when they can’t comment on TB’s play. The truth is obvious and predicated on people not wanting to know what actually happened. Math proves things, and the NFL can’t fight it. I hope the players association drives the hardest bargain ever in the next CBA, neutering the owners and using the NFL’S #deflategate scam as the reason why.

  2. doesn’t matter how often it happens if the team is cheating like the Pats were

    if they get cuaght deflating the balls to make them easier to throw , which everyone who has ever thrown a football knows is the case, then they should get disciplined….. hard

  3. Only when Roger feels it’s pertinent to do so, AND any/all games involving the New England Patriots with Tom Brady at the starting QB position. signed – Ted Wells

  4. “if they get cuaght deflating the balls … then they should get disciplined….. hard”

    Actually, no. If it happened (which we know it didn’t) they should be fined, as is stipulated for an equipment violation in the CBA.

  5. The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball. I tested it by adjusting the PSI on some balls I own and though I could not tell the exact PSI, I could tell if it fell within the acceptable range.

  6. Anyone with reasonable intelligence can tell you air pressure rises when heated and lowers when cooled. But as long as the media doesn’t say so the sheeple will continue to believe whatever the NFL spews or doesn’t spew out.

  7. randomguy9999 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:08 PM
    doesn’t matter how often it happens if the team is cheating like the Pats were

    if they get cuaght deflating the balls to make them easier to throw , which everyone who has ever thrown a football knows is the case, then they should get disciplined….. hard
    ——————————————————————-
    Another genius who doesn’t bother to read…or doesn’t know how to.

  8. randomguy9999 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:08 PM

    doesn’t matter how often it happens if the team is cheating like the Pats were

    if they get cuaght deflating the balls to make them easier to throw , which everyone who has ever thrown a football knows is the case, then they should get disciplined….. hard
    —————————–

    I thought they were deflating them so they were easier to catch and hold on to? I can’t keep up with the BS from the haters.

    Why would Aaron Rodgers handicap himself and his teammates by overinflating the footballs? No one ever wants to answer that question.

    PS. Deflating a football doesn’t make it easier to throw, catch, or hold on to. If you believe that, then you are easily duped by the likes of Roger Goodell and his band of idiots.

  9. “if they get cuaght deflating the balls … then they should get disciplined….. hard”

    Actually, no. If it happened (which we know it didn’t) they should be fined, as is stipulated for an equipment violation in the CBA.

    ========================

    No this was more than an equipment violation and Brady nor the Patriots fully cooperated. He should be suspended for a season.

    >

  10. randomguy9999 says:
    doesn’t matter how often it happens if the team is cheating like the Pats were

    if they get cuaght deflating the balls to make them easier to throw , which everyone who has ever thrown a football knows is the case, then they should get disciplined….. hard

    ———–
    I guess what this post is saying is that the NFL’s actions indicate that they never proved that the Patriots did anything. The NFL hides behind Article 62 of the CBA, which gives Goodell the authority to dish out discipline on his terms. It is a shame if the NFLPA does not take the case to the Supreme Court, as this decision affects not just the NFL players, but all union members in the US.

    Small minded folks who see this myopically being applied only to one football team are fooling themselves. This cuts at the heart of why unions were organized in the first place, a way for workers from all industries to protect their rights and be treated fairly.

  11. Anyone with reasonable intelligence can tell you air pressure rises when heated and lowers when cooled. But as long as the media doesn’t say so the sheeple will continue to believe whatever the NFL spews or doesn’t spew out.

    ===========================

    We know that idiot but apparently Brady and the Deflator didn’t know it when they took the balls in the restroom without approval and let air out. >

  12. And how many QB’s destroyed their cell phones after those random PSI tests? I’m going to say….one.

  13. ——————————- Another genius who doesn’t bother to read…or doesn’t know how to.

    ========================

    The Patriots were penalized and Brady was suspended over deflate gate so apparently you are not a tenuous and you can’t read or comprehend. >

  14. PS. Deflating a football doesn’t make it easier to throw, catch, or hold on to. If you believe that, then you are easily duped by the likes of Roger Goodell and his band of idiots.

    =====================

    Brady thought deflating balls helped so he must have been duped too.

    >

  15. Probably never.

    It doesn’t matter if they do or don’t. Everyone with at least one brain cell already knows that temperature affects air pressure.

    Why else did they change out the footballs at halftime of that Vikings playoff game last season?

  16. Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game? They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating. It’s widely known that the only reason they came down so hard on the Patriots was because of the extensive cheating they have committed. Even then, they got off easy considering no punishment for Belichick, which is why Kraft and Goodell are still bffs.

  17. Any team or player that cheats should get punished hard.

    Of course I mean real cheating not made up fictitious cheating like Deflategate.

    🙂

  18. Patriot Hater gets so frustrated when the superior fans of the 4 time World Champions get right in their grill and run our mouths. 🙂

    Too bad cupcakes…we ain’t going anywhere! We do it because our team owns yours and because we can. It is that simple.

    Cheers!

    🙂

  19. “…referee Ronald Torbert recently told Ben Volin of the Boston Globe that Torbert’s crew had it happen only once last year.”
    __________________________________
    I wonder if Ben asked him what teams were playing in that game, and if he did, did Torbert decline to answer?

  20. PS. Deflating a football doesn’t make it easier to throw, catch, or hold on to. If you believe that, then you are easily duped by the likes of Roger Goodell and his band of idiots.

    Everyone on this thread is dumber for having read this

  21. I too buy into Florio’s hypothesis but I go one step further.

    A few jealous owners know their team isn’t man enough to put in the work and effort to hang with the Patriots so they came up with this scheme to help bring parity and give their own teams a better chance.

    It is that simple. The fraud from #LyinRoger seemingly worked but all intelligent football fans know better.

    🙂

  22. xenova1 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:15 PM
    The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball. I tested it by adjusting the PSI on some balls I own and though I could not tell the exact PSI, I could tell if it fell within the acceptable range.
    ********************************************************
    If there were a shred of truth or credibility to this claim the referees, who handle the ball between every single snap and are by rule REQUIRED to insure that the equipment is within spec, would have done their job and replaced any noticeably deficient balls.

    PS: Jackson said the ball felt fine to him when he intercepted it and it was not measured until after the Colts ball boy stuck a needle in it. Twice. You are behind on your reading.

  23. mmack66 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:36 PM
    Probably never.

    It doesn’t matter if they do or don’t. Everyone with at least one brain cell already knows that temperature affects air pressure.

    Why else did they change out the footballs at halftime of that Vikings playoff game last season?
    ——————————————————–
    Um, minus -7 in Minnesota with the windchill factored in is a little different than 52 degrees and humid in Foxboro

  24. Haters, explain why 3 of the 4 Colts footballs were under 12.5 PSI.

    Never can quite get an answer to that question.

    Also, explain why the Colts equipment manager wasn’t fined for sticking a pin in a football on the sideline. Doesn’t matter if the ball wasn’t going back in the game. It’s still illegal.

  25. It doesn’t matter if they do or don’t. Everyone with at least one brain cell already knows that temperature affects air pressure.

    ===========================

    Brady didn’t know it do he must have no brain cells.

    >

  26. osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:52 PM

    Everyone on this thread is dumber for having read this
    ———————–

    I agree. You should stop posting.

  27. Too bad cupcakes…we ain’t going anywhere! We do it because our team owns yours and because we can. It is that simple.

    ==========================

    All it does is show what low morals you have supporting a twice lying and cheating team. >

  28. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM

    They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating.
    ——————————

    Oh yeah? Is that why the NFL leaked a bunch of lies to the press, before the stadium was even empty, about the air pressure in the Patriots footballs?

  29. osiris33 (bandwagon since 1976) says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:54 PM

    Um, minus -7 in Minnesota with the windchill factored in is a little different than 52 degrees and humid in Foxboro
    —————————-

    Different in what way? Are you saying that the footballs used in the Vikings-Seahawks game were filled with an ideal gas, and the game was played in a laboratory?

  30. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 5:03 PM

    All it does is show what low morals you have supporting a twice lying and cheating team.
    —————————————

    What perfect team do you support?

  31. The random test numbers dont matter. We already know the results. We know the results of any test if you know the variables involved sans the one to solve for

    The igl formula will tell you what the psi is if given the starting temp and psi and the ending temp

    It will also tell you the the starting temp if given the starting psi, the ending psi and the ending temp.

    This is just solve for x people!

    There is no need To release numbers. Any scientist or semi intelligent person knows the results…the nfl is a fraud!

  32. You can count Hatriot Nation as firmly in the corner of voodoo, chicanery, withchunts, frame jobs, double standards, being suckers, anti-NE propaganda, basic science deniers, being completely and utterly fooled by 345 Park Avenue, lies, false reports, more false reports, prolonged false reports, fake numbers, faulty gauges, bought-and-paid-for, “investigative” reports with predetermined outcomes, roger-the-robot, being owned by the Pats over the years, SO tired of watching NE dominate the league.

    All of the above is what Hatriot Nation has bought into, hook, line and sinker.
    Really quite pathetic the veracity and dedication they continue to devote to COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

    You’d think they’d be A. more intelligent and B. have more productive activities to work towards.

    #suckers

  33. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:29 PM

    We know that idiot but apparently Brady and the Deflator didn’t know it when they took the balls in the restroom without approval and let air out.
    ———————————–

    Lol. Now Brady was in there too? First time I have heard that one.

  34. ==========================

    All it does is show what low morals you have supporting a twice lying and cheating team. >


    I have very high morals. 🙂 I don’t accept wussies in pro football who aren’t man enough to work hard and succeed so they look for short cuts.

    I’d rather cheer for a REAL mans team not a weakling. 🙂

  35. Hey PFT!!

    Why not get an NFL ball and find a lab to do the resting? It may not be perfectly conclusive, but it would provide substantially more relevant information than the NFL has to offer!

  36. Ever notice it’s always Patriot Hater who eagerly wave their pom poms for #LyinRoger and then is first in line to plant a big fat wet one on his backside?

    Says it all doesn’t it?

    🙂

  37. It amazes me that even when proven by science, haters are so blindly ignorant, it’s like this:

    30 scientists say, due to the ideal gas law all the balls were in the inflation zone expected due to conditions, as were the colts balls provided, 3 of 4 which also “lost” air (even though that seems to be forgotten).

    Hater says: Yeah but tom Brady cheated.

    Idiots.

  38. There is no need To release numbers. Any scientist or semi intelligent person knows the results…the nfl is a fraud!

    ====================

    Then why did Brady deflate the footballs? He must be a fraud too. >

  39. 25 years from now, we’re all gonna look back on this and ask ourselves, “Why the hell are we still griping about this?”

    Well, not Pats fans, but everybody else will…

  40. All of the above is what Hatriot Nation has bought into, hook, line and sinker. Really quite pathetic the veracity and dedication they continue to devote to COMPLETE AND UTTER BS.

    You’d think they’d be A. more intelligent and B. have more productive activities to work towards.

    #suckers

    =========================

    There’s direct evidence Brady lied and circumstantial evidence he deflated footballs. Brady must be a fraud too.

    >

  41. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM

    Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game?
    ——————————-

    Nope.

    Besides, if they cared that much about cheating, the Broncos would have been exiled from the league years ago.

    I think the most hilarious posts are the ones from Donkeys fans talking about the Patriots cheating. Fans of the cheatingest franchise in the NFL, talking about another team.

  42. I have very high morals. 🙂 I don’t accept wussies in pro football who aren’t man enough to work hard and succeed so they look for short cuts.

    I’d rather cheer for a REAL mans team not a weakling. 🙂

    ======================

    Real men don’t cheat and lie. Brady and Belicheat are The real wussies.

    >

  43. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 5:31 PM

    My teams not perfect but I don’t defend their lying and cheating.
    ————————-

    Patriots fans defend winning. Just like any fans of successful teams would. They leave all of that other nonsense up to the losers.

  44. canetic says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:29 PM

    And how many QB’s destroyed their cell phones after those random PSI tests? I’m going to say….one.
    —————————-

    Well, who was it?

  45. ======================

    Real men don’t cheat and lie. Brady and Belicheat are The real wussies.

    —-
    I completely agree that real men don’t cheat and lie! 🙂 Brady and Belichick do neither, hence I am a Patriot fan and quite happy to be so.

    Any questions cupcake?

    🙂

  46. youknowiknowitall says:
    Aug 14, 2016 5:38 PM
    So your team lies and cheats. Sounds like a Cowardly Colts fan.

    You hear very correctly 🙂

  47. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 5:31 PM

    My teams not perfect but I don’t defend their lying and cheating.
    ——————————–

    If they aren’t perfect, then by supporting them, you defend their lying and cheating.

  48. I believe that Tom told his equipment guys to make sure the footballs were 12.5 PSI and to do what was necessary to make that happen. The Deflator was his job description… and the rest of the text messages back that theory up. And I think it’s very possible that his guys got a little carried away although there is no proof of that.

    Is this some terrible egregious cheating? No. It’s not like he did that to the other team’s footballs. I think the league has bigger issues to deal with than that.

    As a fan of Tom I wish he just said that was what happened and we wouldn’t have heard a word about this since. He didn’t have to admit anything, he could have just taken the Belichick route and said “if we made a mistake we are sorry and it won’t happen again”.

    I can understand he’d want to protect his guys but surely he is smart enough to understand the bigger picture here. Unfortunately he went a different direction, and his cause certainly wasn’t helped by the perception that he destroyed his phone.

  49. 30 scientists say, due to the ideal gas law all the balls were in the inflation zone expected due to conditions, as were the colts balls provided, 3 of 4 which also “lost” air (even though that seems to be forgotten).

    Hater says: Yeah but tom Brady cheated.

    Idiots.

    ==========================

    Exactly what conditions were the balls exposed? This isn’t a car sitting in a garage where all 4 tires are exposed to the same exact conditions. Some of the balls were being used, some towel dried, some sitting there and some left in the bag. Plus the temperature and precipitation weren’t constant. If the balls were .2 to .4 psi below the ideal gas law you can’t determine that unless reproduce the exact environment. Wells tried and none of your 30 scientists did either.

    Now who’s the idiot.

    It’s the circumstantial evidence that convicts Brady.

    >

  50. canetic says: Aug 14, 2016 4:29 PM

    And how many QB’s destroyed their cell phones after those random PSI tests? I’m going to say….one. —————————-

    Well, who was it?

    ==========================

    Brady destroyed his cell phone before the random psi test.

    They should call it the Brady lied and cheats rule. Because without Brady cheating we wouldn’t need random psi tests.

    >

  51. Wow. Luckyforus sure has his shorts in a bunch today.

    ========================== I’m sick and tired of you morons defending Brady, the Liar and cheater. I’m actually having fun sticking it to you losers.

    >

  52. I believe that Tom told his equipment guys to make sure the footballs were 12.5 PSI and to do what was necessary to make that happen. The Deflator was his job description… and the rest of the text messages back that theory up. And I think it’s very possible that his guys got a little carried away although there is no proof of that.


    It would be a plausible theory except for the fact that is not what the Dorito dinks told Wells. 🙂

  53. “Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball.”

    Actually that was a lie the Colts were caught in.

    Grigson claimed the player who had made the INT (can’t remember his name) came to the sideline and told the coaches the ball was soft and felt underinflated.

    When the player was interviewed a day or two later he said he never reported any such thing.

    After the ball was delivered to sideline, the Colts stuck their own gauge in to “measure the PSI”, which by the way its illegal for teams to have their own gauges on the sidelines, and in doing so let further air out of the ball which coincidentally helped frame the Pats.

    This was set up and fabricated by the Colts and the league. Goodell and his cronies including Grigson are all former Jets execs. Easy to figure out why they did it.

  54. —–

    If they aren’t perfect, then by supporting them, you defend their lying and cheating.

    ===========================

    I’m not aware of any lying. When they have cheated they man’d up and accepted the penalties. That’s call forgiveness.

    >

  55. Waiting for the hack of the NFL league office, or a whistleblower to come out of the cage and let everybody know what really went on there over the last year and half.

  56. I believe that Tom told his equipment guys to make sure the footballs were 12.5 PSI and to do what was necessary to make that happen. The Deflator was his job description… and the rest of the text messages back that theory up. And I think it’s very possible that his guys got a little carried away although there is no proof of that.

    Is this some terrible egregious cheating? No. It’s not like he did that to the other team’s footballs. I think the league has bigger issues to deal with than that.

    As a fan of Tom I wish he just said that was what happened and we wouldn’t have heard a word about this since. He didn’t have to admit anything, he could have just taken the Belichick route and said “if we made a mistake we are sorry and it won’t happen again”.

    I can understand he’d want to protect his guys but surely he is smart enough to understand the bigger picture here. Unfortunately he went a different direction, and his cause certainly wasn’t helped by the perception that he destroyed his phone.

    =========================

    Except Brady was involved so he tried to cover it up by lying and destroying his phone. There must have been some other cheating going on for Brady to destroy his phone.

    >

  57. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:34 PM

    Exactly what conditions were the balls exposed? This isn’t a car sitting in a garage where all 4 tires are exposed to the same exact conditions. Some of the balls were being used, some towel dried, some sitting there and some left in the bag. Plus the temperature and precipitation weren’t constant. If the balls were .2 to .4 psi below the ideal gas law you can’t determine that unless reproduce the exact environment. Wells tried and none of your 30 scientists did either.

    Now who’s the idiot.

    It’s the circumstantial evidence that convicts Brady.
    ———————————-

    You’re still the idiot.

    If there is no way to prove that any footballs were deflated, what is there to be “convicted” of?

    All you are doing is reinforcing the fact that the league conducted a witch hunt against Brady.

  58. You’re still the idiot.

    If there is no way to prove that any footballs were deflated, what is there to be “convicted” of?

    All you are doing is reinforcing the fact that the league conducted a witch hunt against Brady.

    ======================

    I said Wells is the only one that tried to recreate the conditions and Wells said it was the totality of the evidence and if it was only the science he may have had a different conclusion.

    >

  59. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM
    Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game? They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating. It’s widely known that the only reason they came down so hard on the Patriots was because of the extensive cheating they have committed. Even then, they got off easy considering no punishment for Belichick, which is why Kraft and Goodell are still bffs.

    —————————————————–

    A donkey fan is going to show everyone an example of what a clean game is and explain”extensive cheating”? Start with Denver’s cap violations, and keep going from there…it’s a long list. Think before you post, you look so foolish.

  60. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:42 PM

    I’m not aware of any lying. When they have cheated they man’d up and accepted the penalties. That’s call forgiveness.
    —————————–

    Truly delusional.

    Man’d. Lol.

  61. Any fan that honestly, truly wants to know if Brady is innocent or guilty would want to see the numbers from the random testing over the past year.

    The fact that the league refuses to release those numbers speaks volumes.

  62. A donkey fan is going to show everyone an example of what a clean game is and explain”extensive cheating”? Start with Denver’s cap violations, and keep going from there…it’s a long list. Think before you post, you look so foolish.

    =========================

    Denver fired the guy that violated the cap. The Patriots honor and give raises to the guys that lie and cheat.

    Who’s foolish?

    >

  63. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:53 PM

    I said Wells is the only one that tried to recreate the conditions and Wells said it was the totality of the evidence and if it was only the science he may have had a different conclusion.
    ——————————

    Tom Brady was suspended for maybe being generally aware that two other guys might have deflated the footballs used by the Patriots in the 2015 AFC Championship Game.

    Regardless if you use science or wizardry, if you can’t definitively determine whether those footballs were deflated, or lost air pressure due to the conditions, there is no other totality of evidence to go by. Certainly not a bunch of old, out of context text messages, that no one bothered to even try to ascertain what they were actually about.

    And before you stupidly bring up Tom Brady replacing a broken cell phone, that wasn’t known about until the appeal hearing. The fact that he didn’t turn over the contents of his phone during the investigation was immaterial to the investigation.

    All of that “destroyed” cell phone nonsense, and “ongoing scheme to deflate footballs” mumbo-jumbo was just made up claptrap by Roger Goodell after the appeal hearing.

  64. I don’t know what’s worse, people who don’t know science or people who don’t know how text messages work.

    You haters have reciting all the texts including the “Deflator” comment and not going to ESPN yet.

    Brady’s phone in not an eleven year girls diary that you can toss in the fire and its gone forever. A text has a sender and a receiver. If he smashed his phone any incriminating texts would still be on those others phone next to the accounts we’ve heard ad nauseum.

    I thought when the season started this would all be over but I guess all those trolls who told Pats fans to move on can’t take their own advise.

    Imagine a person just waiting for any scrap of news on the Pats so they can come here and post a few zingers based on ignorance.

    How sad these people are.

  65. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 7:03 PM

    Denver fired the guy that violated the cap. The Patriots honor and give raises to the guys that lie and cheat.

    Who’s foolish?
    ————————-

    You are.

  66. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:42 PM

    I’m not aware of any lying. When they have cheated they man’d up and accepted the penalties. That’s call forgiveness.
    ———————————–

    The Patriots and Bill Belichick manned up and accepted the ridiculous penalties for “spygate”, but I sure don’t see any forgiveness there.

  67. Brady’s phone in not an eleven year girls diary that you can toss in the fire and its gone forever. A text has a sender and a receiver. If he smashed his phone any incriminating texts would still be on those others phone next to the accounts we’ve heard ad nauseum.

    ========================

    Brady sent like 9900 texts. We have only seen the texts he sent to the phones Wells examined. How many other people did Brady send texts to? And Wells only asked for any texts that related to ball prep, psi, etc. Wells said he didn’t want the phone because he wanted to respect Brady’s privacy. Wells offered to let Brady’s attorney screen the phone. Wells was trusting Brady and his attorney. If there were no texts to any other person regarding these parameters why didn’t Brady say so. So instead Brady destroyed his phone. Why? The excuse was precedent but if I was innocent I would have fully cooperated.

    And you’re right we all need to get a life. But when I see lies and incorrect facts and the Krafts speaking out I just have to respond.

    If the Kraft’s think Brady got shafted they should have fought the team penalties. I would have.

    >

  68. A whole lot of people need to look up the term random. It’s in the “R” section of the dictionary. Millenials should just Google it and use text to speech. I know, I know, learning is haaard.

  69. And before you stupidly bring up Tom Brady replacing a broken cell phone, that wasn’t known about until the appeal hearing. The fact that he didn’t turn over the contents of his phone during the investigation was immaterial to the investigation.

    All of that “destroyed” cell phone nonsense, and “ongoing scheme to deflate footballs” mumbo-jumbo was just made up claptrap by Roger Goodell after the appeal hearing.

    ======================

    If Brady would have fully cooperated maybe the result would be different. Instead he lied snd didn’t provide the information Wells requested. Then he lied and destroyed his phone.

    Get the facts correct. Innocent people don’t act this way.

    >

  70. Denver fired the guy that violated the cap. The Patriots honor and give raises to the guys that lie and cheat.

    Who’s foolish? ————————-

    You are.

    ======================

    I’m stating facts and providing sources. You are making up stuff. Your the fool for believing Brady.

    >

  71. The Patriots and Bill Belichick manned up and accepted the ridiculous penalties for “spygate”, but I sure don’t see any forgiveness there.

    =======================

    They accepted the penalties because they were caught red handed. They made excuses so no they didn’t man up.

    And how do you know the penalties were ridiculous? Did you see the tapes? >

  72. Remember the appeal hearing, when Brady turned over information from his phone, and then the NFL promptly leaked some of his emails?

    How’s that for privacy?

    Of course, after Brady turned over all of that information, the NFL said they couldn’t use it.

    Hysterical.

    They could create a Broadway play out of that appeal hearing, and it would be a bigger comedy success than “The Book of Mormon”.

  73. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 7:37 PM

    I’m stating facts and providing sources. You are making up stuff. Your the fool for believing Brady.
    ———————————–

    The next time you post a fact will be the first.

    Parroting the NFL or Ted Wells isn’t stating facts or providing sources.

    Use your brain for once.

  74. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 7:39 PM

    They accepted the penalties because they were caught red handed. They made excuses so no they didn’t man up.

    And how do you know the penalties were ridiculous? Did you see the tapes?
    ————————————-

    They figured it was okay to tape, as long as those tapes weren’t used in the same game, which was how the memo that was the root of “spygate” was worded.

    Everyone saw the tapes as they were played at the Goodell press conference.

  75. Lucky quite possibly gets the award for biggest troll moron, nothing he has posted is factual or unbiased..Uncle Roger is proud of you.

  76. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 7:36 PM

    If Brady would have fully cooperated maybe the result would be different. Instead he lied snd didn’t provide the information Wells requested. Then he lied and destroyed his phone.

    Get the facts correct. Innocent people don’t act this way.
    ————————————–

    Tom Brady was getting railroaded whether he turned over anything from his phone or not. The league saw to that.

    When you deny someone the chance to review the notes from an “independent” investigation because they claim it is privileged information, well how do you defend that?

  77. “…..the NFL doesn’t want anyone to know the numbers harvested by the random process — and that the NFL doesn’t want anyone to know the numbers because the NFL knows it will become even harder to justify a finding of cheating…..”

    BINGO!

  78. They figured it was okay to tape, as long as those tapes weren’t used in the same game, which was how the memo that was the root of “spygate” was worded.

    Everyone saw the tapes as they were played at the Goodell press conference.

    =============================

    Once again you made up stuff. You’re pathetic.

    This was the 2nd memo. And they were kicked out of Green Bay video taping and I believe the Giants complained in the previous year. Belicheat knew it wasn’t allowed and made up a lame excuse. And what purpose would the tape serve in a future game? And you are supporting a coach who taped signals illegally. Nice job. Yes it was illegal despite what homers say.

    And Belicheat admitted to taping back to 2000 or 2001 so no they didn’t show all the tapes at Goodell’s press conference.

    >

  79. chuckshontaspads says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:05 PM

    Lucky quite possibly gets the award for biggest troll moron, nothing he has posted is factual or unbiased..Uncle Roger is proud of you.
    —————————-

    He’s certainly the head dingaling when limakey isn’t around.

  80. When you deny someone the chance to review the notes from an “independent” investigation because they claim it is privileged information, well how do you defend that?

    ====================

    He lied before the the notes were requested. Why? >

  81. He’s certainly the head dingaling when limakey isn’t around

    You’re just mad cause I proved Brady lied. Also if you google it the Washington Post published an article about Brady lying.

    >

  82. “Denver fired the guy that violated the cap. The Patriots honor and give raises to the guys that lie and cheat.”

    Umm, Elway was complicit in taking under the table payments. They have since rewarded him with the GM job years later.

    He cheated in both SB winning years with the Donks taking under the table payments. According to the Pats haters that’s a “recurring pattern of cheating” and a “culture of cheating”.

    And since according to you also “once a cheater always a cheater” its clear that the Donks must’ve cheated last year to even get to the Super Bowl, at least by your own logic.

    And hey, since ol’ #18 probably took about 18 pounds of HGH to continue playing, guess what, they did cheat.

  83. DEN has always had a culture of cheating and it all starts at the top. Every one of their “wins” is tainted. Quite a legacy.

  84. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM
    Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game? They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating. It’s widely known that the only reason they came down so hard on the Patriots was because of the extensive cheating they have committed. Even then, they got off easy considering no punishment for Belichick, which is why Kraft and Goodell are still bffs.
    ————-
    I did not understand a single sentence of this statement, its like reading some high fantasy novel because its all completely fictitious, but keep on living in fantasy land bro!

  85. People just make it stop I am a colts fan and nothing to do with footballs had anything to do with deflated balls the colts was man handled by the better team bill belecheck gave manning greatest compliment ever when he went for it on 4th down in his own end I may not like Brady or the patriots but I respect what they have done

  86. We will never hear one data point of this entire sampling process unless and until one sample is found that seems to support the NFL’s narrative. If that happens (I speak hypothetically, because it won’t), we will hear about that selected portion only, either in a formal release or just a “leak”, and then we’ll go back to never seeing detailed data again.

  87. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:19 PM

    You’re just mad cause I proved Brady lied. Also if you google it the Washington Post published an article about Brady lying.
    ———————————

    The only thing you have proven is that you are a delusional moron that believes anything that the NFL and/or Ted Wells spoon feeds you in regards to psigate.

    That Washington Post article was written by a guy that has as little intelligence as you do.

  88. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM
    Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game? They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating

    ———-

    That certainly would explain giving Mort the 11 of 12 footballs story.

  89. How is it that that one troll can post endlessly but cogent and erudite oosts are consistently deleted. For the record the Broncos did not ‘man up’ for the cap violations they hid behind a smokescreen of ‘accounting snafu’ obfuscation until they were nailed to the wall by a Special Master.
    Luckyforus is probably the debunked artist formerly known as factman or some other previously de-panted troll.
    Quit feeding these types folks, they are worse liars than Goodell and Wells.

  90. Back to how often are there random psi checks …

    Never. There is nothing random about any of them.

  91. orange and blue own the nfl says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:42 PM
    Did it ever occur to anyone that the NFL has a very strong interest in a clean game? They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating
    ===================

    Bwahahahahaha.

  92. coltsjason says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:35 PM
    People just make it stop I am a colts fan and nothing to do with footballs had anything to do with deflated balls the colts was man handled by the better team bill belecheck gave manning greatest compliment ever when he went for it on 4th down in his own end I may not like Brady or the patriots but I respect what they have done

    ———-

    To a Colts fan from a Pats fan……Thank you for saying that.

  93. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:12 PM

    Once again you made up stuff. You’re pathetic.

    This was the 2nd memo. And they were kicked out of Green Bay video taping and I believe the Giants complained in the previous year. Belicheat knew it wasn’t allowed and made up a lame excuse. And what purpose would the tape serve in a future game? And you are supporting a coach who taped signals illegally. Nice job. Yes it was illegal despite what homers say.

    And Belicheat admitted to taping back to 2000 or 2001 so no they didn’t show all the tapes at Goodell’s press conference.
    ————————————–

    I’m pathetic? You’re the one that has no clue what they are talking about.

    Taping signals was, and still is, legal. Do you not even know the rules?

    What purpose would the tape serve in a future game? Seriously? Do you not know that there is such a thing as scouting tapes?

    Besides, if tapes had no value in future games, why the big deal with spygate?

    If it is such a big deal, why is the NFL now allowing in game video to be played on the tablets used by each team.

    Use your brain.

  94. If cooperation is the cornerstone of the NFL, why was Brett Favre not suspended for refusing to turn over his cellphone in his investigation?

    Why did Roger Goodell refuse to turn over his cellphone in the Ray Rice court case?

    Why were the Chargers, Panthers & Vikings not punished with the loss of draft picks for altering game balls?

    NFL pumishiment is haned out without rhyme or reason.

    The billionaire owners only care about profits and increasing value.

    NFL is more like the WWE than any of the other major sports leagues.

  95. I’m pathetic? You’re the one that has no clue what they are talking about.

    Taping signals was, and still is, legal. Do you not even know the rules?

    What purpose would the tape serve in a future game? Seriously? Do you not know that there is such a thing as scouting tapes?

    Besides, if tapes had no value in future games, why the big deal with spygate?

    If it is such a big deal, why is the NFL now allowing in game video to be played on the tablets used by each team.

    Use your brain.

    ===========================

    You accuse me of never stating a fact. So what you’re saying is in all my posts I’ve never stated a fact. Think about that. You just lost all credibility with that statement. Wait you lost your credibility a long time ago.

    Now this post. You didn’t comment on the 2nd memo or getting kicked out of Green Bay for video taping signals or the Giants complaining about the Pats taping signals. I guess those are facts you can’t dispute.

    Taping signals is not legal. It’s Pats fans making it up to justify spy gate. That’s why they went to a designated defensive player getting signals via radio.

    They were video taping signals idiot. It wasn’t for scouting. They have game tapes for that and they don’t need to be on the sideline for that video. Nice try.

    They were video taping signals for use in the same game. And if the NFL allowed you to video tape signals why was there a memo that restricted where you could video. Why did Green Bay and the Giants protest?

    The in game video is for viewing formations not stealing signals and I’m not sure they’ve approved it for the regular season yet.

    Maybe you Belicheat and Tommy should read the rule book.

    >

  96. luckyforus

    …if the NFL allowed you to video tape signals why was there a memo that restricted where you could video. Why did Green Bay and the Giants protest?

    ==============================

    why was there a memo that restricted WHERE you could video?
    which only addressed WHERE, not making videotaping signals illegal.

    You also are saying the Giants and Green Bay protested, i Googled this and found nothing, can you please provide some citation that these two team did issue a protest?

  97. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 7:33 PM
    Brady sent like 9900 texts. We have only seen the texts he sent to the phones Wells examined. How many other people did Brady send texts to? And Wells only asked for any texts that related to ball prep, psi, etc. Wells said he didn’t want the phone because he wanted to respect Brady’s privacy. Wells offered to let Brady’s attorney screen the phone. Wells was trusting Brady and his attorney. If there were no texts to any other person regarding these parameters why didn’t Brady say so. So instead Brady destroyed his phone. Why? The excuse was precedent but if I was innocent I would have fully cooperated.
    ========================
    To clarify you want to see texts from Brady that Wells never asked for or wanted ?!?!?!?!? There were exactly three people other than Brady who could affect a scheme to deflate footballs. The NFL had the logs\texts from all of them. Brady provided logs\texts from the missing phone and the NFL did nothing with them. I’b bet even money even Goodell could have looked for exactly 3 phone numbers from that information in < 5 minutes. I know my 10 year old could.

  98. They’re motivated to draw as little attention as possible to any instance of cheating


    Not in the #LyinRoger era!

    🙂

  99. I love how Patriot Hater gets really offended for some reason when I call the commissioner #LyinRoger. 🙂

    I wonder why? Its like #LyinRoger is like their father or something. 🙂 Would explain a lot actually.

  100. How often does random PSI testing happen?

    Let’see….the Pats played in 18 games last year…..so I’ll say the league made 18 ‘random’ tests last year.

    You know….integrity….and all that stuff.

  101. why was there a memo that restricted WHERE you could video? which only addressed WHERE, not making videotaping signals illegal.

    You also are saying the Giants and Green Bay protested, i Googled this and found nothing, can you please provide some citation that these two team did issue a protest?

    ==========================

    The memo clearly stated you couldn’t video tape signals offensive or defense and couldn’t video the sidelines. You can try to steal signals by using your eyes but no technology can be used. Like in baseball, the guy on 2nd could but you can’t have a camera in CF.

    Google video taping by Patriots catches NFL eye. There’s a quote from Bob Harlan, chairman of Green Bay.

    Also Google New claim of Taping Emerges against the Patriots.

    >

  102. ============ To clarify you want to see texts from Brady that Wells never asked for or wanted ?!?!?!?!? There were exactly three people other than Brady who could affect a scheme to deflate footballs. The NFL had the logs\texts from all of them. Brady provided logs\texts from the missing phone and the NFL did nothing with them. I’b bet even money even Goodell could have looked for exactly 3 phone numbers from that information in

  103. Tee hee 🙂 Patriot Hater really is getting more and desperate and is quite freaking hilarious to read.

    🙂

  104. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 10:16 PM

    You accuse me of never stating a fact. So what you’re saying is in all my posts I’ve never stated a fact.
    ——————————-

    Yes. You are a habitual liar, that just parrots the NFL lies without any regard for facts or logic.

    Please find any section in the rule book that expressly prohibits the taping of signals.

    And please post the text of this second memo you claim exists.

  105. Yes. You are a habitual liar, that just parrots the NFL lies without any regard for facts or logic.

    Please find any section in the rule book that expressly prohibits the taping of signals.

    And please post the text of this second memo you claim exists.

    =====================

    Not after calling me a habitual liar. I’ve given many sources. You can do the research on your own from now on.

    And regarding taping of signals. Why would the NFL come out with a memo if you could tape signals?

    >

  106. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 10:30 AM

    The memo clearly stated you couldn’t video tape signals offensive or defense and couldn’t video the sidelines. You can try to steal signals by using your eyes but no technology can be used. Like in baseball, the guy on 2nd could but you can’t have a camera in CF.
    —————————

    Memos aren’t rules, and the 2006 memo by Ray Anderson includes provisions that are not in the rules, such as the taping of offensive and defensive signals.

    Please find and read the actual rules regarding filming.

  107. Goodell and Wells and all NFL officials need to turn over their cellphones

    As of now we have proof that the NFL is fixing games, suspending Brady when the PSI data which THEY released which proves NO deflation occurred

    The NFL’s refusal to do what they said they would originally – take PSI readings and make them public – indicates that the NFL owners and all at 345 Park Avenue are corrupt.

    If the NFL wants to disprove that they need to have an independent third party track and release all PSI info

    If it shows that the Laws of Physics and Ideal Gas Law don’t exist, that would bolster those who think that Brady cheated

    But if it shows what all scientists agree – that the NFL purposefully framed and penalized Brady – then we know that the NFL is trying to fix games and Congress needs to force Goodell to step down

  108. xenova1 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:15 PM
    The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball.

    The truth? Here’s the truth.

    D’Qwell Jackson is the player you’re referring to. The original lie in all of this was that D’Qwell noticed the ball was soft and handed it to a Colts staffer who tested it on the sideline, which BTW is a rules violation. messing with game balls on the sideline during a game. It doesn’t get any more illegal that than that.

    But when questioned, D’Qwell informs that this NEVER HAPPENED? He never said it was soft. NEVER, get it?

    So let ‘s review, Framegate was built on that lie, then exacerbated with another lie from Mort the Coward, who is devoid of any integrity. And, let’s not forget that the gutless lying crybaby Ravens called the Colts to tell them to keep an eye on the balls ’cause something funny was going on. They didn’t bother to mention that the funny stuff was an NFL official stealing K balls for personal profit.

    But let’s just hang our Hateroid hats on a text from 1/2 a year earlier.

  109. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 11:32 AM
    Yes. You are a habitual liar, that just parrots the NFL lies without any regard for facts or logic.

    Please find any section in the rule book that expressly prohibits the taping of signals.

    And please post the text of this second memo you claim exists.

    =====================

    Not after calling me a habitual liar. I’ve given many sources. You can do the research on your own from now on.

    And regarding taping of signals. Why would the NFL come out with a memo if you could tape signals?

    More lies,

    The NFL never came out with any such memo. double dare you to prove me wrong. The memo only specified a location, not if you could tape or not.

    Classic headline reading knee jerk response.

  110. luckyforus says: And regarding taping of signals. Why would the NFL come out with a memo if you could tape signals?
    —————————————-

    You seem to be digging yourself a hole.

    Spygate revolved around a new 2006 rule established by memo that did not prohibit game and play calling taping – it simply stated that it could no longer be done from the sidelines – and must now be confined to certain areas in the stands.

    Only the uninformed, insanely jealous and those unable to Google dispute this

    So to recap, Spygate revolved around the Patriots breaking a new 2006 rule in the first half of the first game of the 2007 season.

    Asserting that pre-2006 games are tainted by the existence of a rule that did not exist at the time defies logic

    If all teams are expected to follow rules yet to be made, then every Super Bowl winner must have an asterisk next to their name

  111. Some perspective for the tin foil hat Wronglocationgate crowd.

    Jets Head Coach Eric Mangini—a former Patriots assistant coach—had reported the fact that the Patriots were taping from the sidelines to NFL Security.[14] Mangini later stated, “I didn’t think it was any kind of significant advantage, but I wasn’t going to give them the convenience of doing it in our stadium, and I wanted to shut it down. But there was no intent to get the league involved. There was no intent to have the landslide that it has become

    So really, Wronglocationgate was the original Framegate brought to us by another whiny loser coach.

    Filming was not illegal, period. The only issue was the spot from which the filming was taking place. Even Mangina agrees there was no real advantage.

  112. Filming was not illegal, period. The only issue was the spot from which the filming was taking place. Even Mangina agrees there was no real advantage

    =========================

    Mangini hasn’t win anything so you shouldn’t be trusting his opinion.

    Taping was ok but taping offensive or defensive signals was not allowed. If taping signals was ok what was the purpose of the memo?

    I always have an honest answer that angers the homers so they make up lies and call me names.

    So what was the purpose of the memo? >

  113. Spygate revolved around a new 2006 rule established by memo that did not prohibit game and play calling taping – it simply stated that it could no longer be done from the sidelines – and must now be confined to certain areas in the stands.

    ===========================

    Educate me then. Why did the NFL disallow taping from the sidelines?

    And there is another memo from Ray Anderson NFL VP dated Sept 2006 that REMINDED teams that videotaping of opponents offensive or defensive signals is prohibited

    >

  114. The NFL never came out with any such memo. double dare you to prove me wrong. The memo only specified a location, not if you could tape or not.

    ===========================

    Ok, then why did the NFL specify the location?

    But you should check out a 9/2016 memo from Ray Anderson that stated video of any type including but not limited to taping of an opponents offensive and defensive signals is prohibited etc. >

  115. randomguy9999 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:08 PM

    if they get cuaght deflating the balls to make them easier to throw , which everyone who has ever thrown a football knows is the case, then they should get disciplined…

    **********************
    deflating would make them easier to catch, not throw. Over inflated balls are easier to throw according to aaron rodgers.

  116. Here is the rule about videotaping:

    “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game. All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead. Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game.”

    Notice that it doesn’t have any mention of taping offensive or defensive signals.

    As to why the NFL would put out a memo like the one they did is anyone’s guess. They’ve proven again and again that they are incompetent, so that likely factors into it.

  117. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 12:53 PM

    Ok, then why did the NFL specify the location?

    But you should check out a 9/2016 memo from Ray Anderson that stated video of any type including but not limited to taping of an opponents offensive and defensive signals is prohibited etc.
    —————————

    The memo was from 2006, and you seem to have cherry-picked the only part that you think supports your incorrect position. Here is the memo:

    “Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent’s offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches’ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game.”

    The part about the offensive or defensive signals and the part about being accessible to club staff members during the game are not part of the rule.

  118. As to why the NFL would put out a memo like the one they did is anyone’s guess.


    It was because every team was doing exactly the same thing – as proven by the waving to the camera on the tapes that we did see. Funny how the memo was sent to all 32 teams and not just 1.

    That, of course is also the real reason why the tapes were destroyed. #LyinRoger won’t look too good if he hits one team for something every single team was doing.

    The only mistake Belichick made was not phoning the league ahead of time to check whether his interpretation of the memo and taping-in-game was correct. Would have saved them a lot of grief but that’s water under the bridge.

  119. hatersgonnahatehate says:
    Aug 15, 2016 12:53 PM

    deflating would make them easier to catch, not throw. Over inflated balls are easier to throw according to aaron rodgers.
    ———————

    So Aaron Rodgers doesn’t care about the backs and receivers?

  120. goodellMustGo says:
    Aug 15, 2016 1:22 PM

    It was because every team was doing exactly the same thing – as proven by the waving to the camera on the tapes that we did see. Funny how the memo was sent to all 32 teams and not just 1.

    That, of course is also the real reason why the tapes were destroyed. #LyinRoger won’t look too good if he hits one team for something every single team was doing.
    —————————

    So it was only because the Patriots were so much better than the rest of the league at utilizing all of that footage, that Integrity Goodell went ape?

    I guess that’s where he learned how to be arbitrary and capricious. I can see where it would have looked bad to try and make an example out of the Jets, since they hadn’t won anything since before Neil Armstrong took one small step for man.

  121. The Internet is awash with (that means there’s a lot of them, trolls) videos demonstrating what happens to footballs when the temperature drops. The science is both empirically AND theoretically sound (trolls, that means it can be demonstrated experimentally AND on paper with mathematics).

    This should have been a non-story from the beginning if ESPN and the NFL had any integrity whatsoever.

  122. This should have been a non-story from the beginning if ESPN and the NFL had any integrity

    =========================

    If Brady was innocent he and the Patriots should have personally sued the NFL. Instead he let the NFLPA appeal on his behalf and provided no new substantive evidence to Goodell. Then they appealed whether Goodell exceeded his authority.

    If I was innocent I wouldn’t have rolled over. >

  123. TheDPR says:
    Aug 15, 2016 4:24 PM

    The Internet is awash with (that means there’s a lot of them, trolls) videos demonstrating what happens to footballs when the temperature drops. The science is both empirically AND theoretically sound (trolls, that means it can be demonstrated experimentally AND on paper with mathematics).
    —————————

    Haven’t you heard? It doesn’t matter if the footballs lost air pressure because of the weather, because a bunch of out of date/context texts, none of which actually talk about deflating footballs at all, much less below 12.5PSI, prove that it was Brady and McNally, in the bathroom, with the needle.

    Luckyforus only states “facts”, so that must be the truth.

  124. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 10:30 AM
    The memo clearly stated you couldn’t video tape signals offensive or defense and couldn’t video the sidelines. You can try to steal signals by using your eyes but no technology can be used. Like in baseball, the guy on 2nd could but you can’t have a camera in CF.

    Google video taping by Patriots catches NFL eye. There’s a quote from Bob Harlan, chairman of Green Bay.

    Also Google New claim of Taping Emerges against the Patriots
    ==========================
    I love how people still get all bunched up over Spygate. Here’s the simple truth of the matter. Any NFL team could place an army of lip readers on the sideline to try to steal messages from the opposing side. It could fill a row of seats behind the other team’s bench with espionage experts to decipher all the sideline cues. It could have scouts in the press box aiming binoculars at every opposing coach, scribbling notes to match with game tape to glean what all the signals mean.

    Spare me the excuses of how video taping them is so much more of an advantage. Video cameras are legally allowed in designated areas. You can argue they shouldn’t be used to steal signals but everybody knows they aren’t there for just the coaches tape. We all know every team does it. We all know it really isn’t that big of a deal.

  125. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:39 PM

    Brady destroyed his cell phone before the random psi test.

    They should call it the Brady lied and cheats rule. Because without Brady cheating we wouldn’t need random psi tests.
    ==========================
    I wouldn’t go that far. Apparently you and the NFL aren’t aware of the science behind natural ball deflation. Otherwise those balls never would have been swapped out in Min, right? Or there would never be a need for PSI testing at all, right?

    Despite what, 60,000+ games where 90% of games in the exact same conditions would have been played with balls under the legal limit.

  126. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:41 PM
    Wow. Luckyforus sure has his shorts in a bunch today.

    I’m sick and tired of you morons defending Brady, the Liar and cheater. I’m actually having fun sticking it to you losers.
    ==========================

    You should probably come with something other than the IGL doesn’t exist excuse. Not that you had much credibility to begin with but that is helping what you had evaporate rather quickly. Just sayin’.

  127. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 4:53 PM

    If I was innocent I wouldn’t have rolled over.
    —————————–

    Sure you would, after you also came to the realization that the deck was stacked against you, and there was no way to beat Integrity Goodell.

  128. xenova1 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:15 PM

    The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball. I tested it by adjusting the PSI on some balls I own and though I could not tell the exact PSI, I could tell if it fell within the acceptable range.
    ………………………

    So if you can’t tell the exact PSI, but can apparently tell if a ball is in the acceptable range, Can you tell the difference between a ball is at 12.5 (acceptable) and one at 12.49 (illegal)? And I would say the NFL raised suspicion when it admitted it knew nothing of atmospheric science and then refused to release the PSI data from last year. When you have experience with the repeated instances of the NFL’s shady behavior you can tell if they are lying or not, it becomes innate.

  129. luckyforus says:
    Aug 14, 2016 6:39 PM

    Brady destroyed his cell phone before the random psi test.

    They should call it the Brady lied and cheats rule. Because without Brady cheating we wouldn’t need random psi tests.
    …..

    Uh, no, just no. There was nothing random about the AFC title game PSI test. The referees even admitted to getting a heads up from the NFL to look for it pregame, and Kensil was giddy when it all unfolded. That is the opposite of “random”. And the NFL also admitted to knowing nothing of atmospheric science and now are further trying to bury their ignorance by not releasing this data (remember when Roger pledged for NFL “transparency” and “we have to get better” after Ray Rice?). But you find them credible…

  130. veddermn8 says:
    Aug 16, 2016 10:56 AM

    xenova1 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 4:15 PM

    The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball. I tested it by adjusting the PSI on some balls I own and though I could not tell the exact PSI, I could tell if it fell within the acceptable range.
    ………………………

    So if you can’t tell the exact PSI, but can apparently tell if a ball is in the acceptable range, Can you tell the difference between a ball is at 12.5 (acceptable) and one at 12.49 (illegal)? And I would say the NFL raised suspicion when it admitted it knew nothing of atmospheric science and then refused to release the PSI data from last year. When you have experience with the repeated instances of the NFL’s shady behavior you can tell if they are lying or not, it becomes innate.
    ——————————–

    Someone should give xenova1, warrior princess, 12 footballs inflated to exactly 12.5PSI, and then ask him to find the 11 that are 2PSI below 12.5PSI.

  131. As someone who has actually thrown a football competitively, albeit in school, not as a pro.. An under inflated ball is very hard to throw and an over inflated ball is very hard to throw. There is a sweet spot for each QB. The NFL has never made any legitimate effort to check the air pressure because it really doesn’t give a competitive advantage. If the NFL actually did care, they would have been using calibrated gauges and using a defined test procedure prior to each game. They treated it like it was unimportant because it was unimportant. Had they done so, they also would likely have had a long understanding of the way temperature affects air pressure. If they really really cared, they would have been using nitrogen instead of air thus eliminating most of the pressure change due to temperature change. Again, they didn’t care because until they thought they caught Tom Brady cheating, it didn’t matter. They created a witch hunt rather than carefully consider the facts and ensuring that they fully understood what was happening and adjusting the test protocol accordingly. Your local grease pit tire shop has a better understanding than the $11B NFL.. That should terrify anyone who’s livelihood depends on the league.

  132. Patriot haters can’t explain how the Colt’s footballs also tested below the legal PSI but the NFL didn’t care and they also don’t think it is fishy that the league never released PSI data. It’s obvious to intelligient people why they won’t release the PSI data. Another fact haters ignore is that the home team controls all the footballs so Brady, if you are jealous and believe the liar Roger Goodell, had no way to have them deflated on road games and yet his home and road stats are almost identical for his career (google the Peter King story showing the comparison if you are still in denial). Goodell was as good as gone following the Ray Rice scandal, which he never turned over his personal cell phone when it was investigated, but he was able to use hatred of the team that has dominated the league for more than a decade to make the jealous fans of 31 other teams suddenly like him and forget all about Ray Rice. Enjoy what Ayatollah Roger will do to your team in the future and don’t complain when his witch hunt goes after your team!

  133. luckyforus, you haven’t the slightest clue about the iteraction between pressure, temperature and (key to this fiasco) water absorption.

    The Exponent Report, te technical foundation of the Wells Report, is a fraud. It is Junk Engineering. It is a willful, intentional deceit. It is a collusion between Wells & a bunch of unethical engineers-for-hire, who will provide techno-babble pseudoscience reports to lawyers in high dollar value lawsuits (precisely Wells, Karp & Reisen’s arena). Reports that conclude whatever answer is desired.

    This is exactly what the Exponent & Wells Report is: an intentional frame-up.

    There is zero doubt of a collusion between Wells & Exponent. I don’t know if Goodell explicitly told Wells to find Brady guilty. I slightly doubt it. But, at some point, Wells decided that was his job, and “the hell with the evidence”.

    If you’re willing to listen objectively to the evidence, I can prove it.

    I haven’t seen any indication, tho, of your possessing the ability (or frankly, the desire) to be objective on this issue.

    Let me ask you: What would be your response to learn that Brady & the Pats are completely innocent, that nobody let any air out of any footballs before or during that game?

  134. xenova1 says: [i]”The truth is that while handling footballs with experience, you can tell whether a ball is properly inflated just by squeezing it. It becomes innate. Brady raised suspicion when he was intercepted with a deflated ball. I tested it by adjusting the PSI on some balls I own and though I could not tell the exact PSI, I could tell if it fell within the acceptable range.”[/i]

    You’re completely wrong about this, because you don’t know how to run competent experiments.

    It is trivial to prove that “comparing the ‘feel’ of an 11 psi @ room temp football to a 12.5 psi @ room temp football” is a completely irrelevant & erroneous experiment.

    First, you’re fibbing about the feel. I’ve also done the experiments. But there’s an important difference between us: I’m a professional at running experiments, & you’re an amateur. The 11 psi football will be [b]ever so slightly[/b] “softer” (i.e., more compliant), but [b]nobody[/b] can feel the difference except by having the two balls side by side & knowing that one is slightly less inflated. (BTW, in the case of an 11.0 & 12.5 psi footballs, the difference is not 13.6%, it is 5.8%. Do you know why?)

    But the proof that your test is rubbish is simple: When footballs lose pressure because they get cold, they do [b]not[/b] get softer, they get harder. Much harder. A cold football, even tho the air inside is at a lower pressure, is hard as a rock.

    Everyone who has ever played football, basketball or soccer in cold weather knows this.

    You’ve got a completely unexamined & uncontrolled variable in your test: the compliance vs. temperature of the football’s leather.

    Conclusions from incompetent, amateur testing are irrelevant. And usually wrong.

  135. Not Interested, I think you have to be objective. You have made comments that only parrott what media has said. You have not read the Wells Report on how they came to their conclusions. In fact, they clearly indicated that they could not, to any degree of scientific certainty say that tampering did occur however using the totatality of the evidence, the texts, the words and actions of JM and JJ that is more probable then not that tampering did occur. Those texts are simply unexplainable. If this was a court case, this would be considered direct evidence and a jury would find them guilty. They then used the texts, the words and actions of JM, JJ and TB to conclude he did know about it, he was involved. You talk about fraud science, tell me what team did any one hire, conduct their own experiments and submit their results that says that the law of nature and IGA account for lost pressure. You don’t have that. Everything you have said about the alleged hire guns the NFL hired, can just as easily be said about Kraft’s team, if he hired one. Why didn’t he? Because his hired guns would have come up with the same results and conclusions.

  136. limakey says:
    Aug 17, 2016 9:55 AM

    Not Interested, I think you have to be objective. You have made comments that only parrott what media has said. You have not read the Wells Report on how they came to their conclusions. In fact, they clearly indicated that they could not, to any degree of scientific certainty say that tampering did occur however using the totatality of the evidence, the texts, the words and actions of JM and JJ that is more probable then not that tampering did occur. Those texts are simply unexplainable. If this was a court case, this would be considered direct evidence and a jury would find them guilty. They then used the texts, the words and actions of JM, JJ and TB to conclude he did know about it, he was involved. You talk about fraud science, tell me what team did any one hire, conduct their own experiments and submit their results that says that the law of nature and IGA account for lost pressure. You don’t have that. Everything you have said about the alleged hire guns the NFL hired, can just as easily be said about Kraft’s team, if he hired one. Why didn’t he? Because his hired guns would have come up with the same results and conclusions.

    …..

    The only major scientific outlet that agreed with the NFL on Brady was the one who was paid by the NFL, the rest of the scientific community disagreed and they certainly weren’t all Patriots fans. And if it was a “court case”, there would be giant holes in the NFL’s case. The science doesn’t add up, and there is exactly zero texts or testimony that spell out that ball deflation happened after the ref inspection. All the deflation and needle talk can easily be explained by Brady wanting the footballs deflated to exactly 12.5 right before being handed to the refs. He even asked the equipment guys to print out the rule and give it to the refs with the balls because the refs had botched it in the past (ie Jets game). Why explicitly point out the rule you intend to break?

  137. limakey says:
    Aug 17, 2016 9:55 AM

    Not Interested, I think you have to be objective. You have made comments that only parrott what media has said. You have not read the Wells Report on how they came to their conclusions. In fact, they clearly indicated that they could not, to any degree of scientific certainty say that tampering did occur however using the totatality of the evidence, the texts, the words and actions of JM and JJ that is more probable then not that tampering did occur. Those texts are simply unexplainable. If this was a court case, this would be considered direct evidence and a jury would find them guilty.
    ————————-

    If psigate were tried in an actual court of law, the NFL would lose badly. It is more probable than not that the case would get thrown out.

    It likely wouldn’t get past the point of not being able to prove at what pressure the footballs actually started at. Without that key piece of information, everything else is moot.

    There would be discovery, and testimony as to who actually claimed that the Patriots used underinflated footballs, or who leaked the lies about 11 of 12 footballs being 2PSI under. The NFL wouldn’t be able to hide behind Article 46, whereby they can pretty much make any claim they want, and no one will ever get the information to prove themselves innocent.

  138. The only major scientific outlet that agreed with the NFL on Brady was the one who was paid by the NFL, the rest of the scientific community disagreed and they certainly weren’t all Patriots fans. And if it was a “court case”, there would be giant holes in the NFL’s case. The science doesn’t add up, and there is exactly zero texts or testimony that spell out that ball deflation happened after the ref inspection. All the deflation and needle talk can easily be explained by Brady wanting the footballs deflated to exactly 12.5 right before being handed to the refs. He even asked the equipment guys to print out the rule and give it to the refs with the balls because the refs had botched it in the past (ie Jets game). Why explicitly point out the rule you intend to break?

    ===========================

    1. Did any of the scientists that the NFLPA consult perform a scientific analysis under the same weather conditions and environmental conditions that existed on the the night of the AFCCG?

    2. The deflation and needle talk was between JJ and JM. JM’s role was caretaker of the balls and to let the refs know Brady wanted them at 12.5. JM should not have inflated or deflated any balls. Brady didn’t want those balls touched after he picked them. So why are they talking about inflation/deflation. They should have been at 12.5 before Brady selected them and not altered after by JJ or JM.

    3. They gave the ref the rule for 12.5 because Brady wanted to make sure they were either 12.5 or if altered after they would be slightly below 12.5. If they stated no preference the ref might have adjusted them to 13 the mid point and it’s a lot harder to let a little air out and know where you end up. There wasn’t time for JM to gauge them.

    >

  139. If psigate were tried in an actual court of law, the NFL would lose badly. It is more probable than not that the case would get thrown out.

    It likely wouldn’t get past the point of not being able to prove at what pressure the footballs actually started at. Without that key piece of information, everything else is moot.

    There would be discovery, and testimony as to who actually claimed that the Patriots used underinflated footballs, or who leaked the lies about 11 of 12 footballs being 2PSI under. The NFL wouldn’t be able to hide behind Article 46, whereby they can pretty much make any claim they want, and no one will ever get the information to prove themselves innocent.

    =============================

    You continue to make comments based only on your biased opinion and not facts.

    Brady’s phone would have been subpoenaed as well as testimony by JJ and JM, etc. Also in fairness probably Wells notes too.

    You or I have no idea what’s on Brady’s phone nor do you have any idea how these people would testify. So how do you conclude it would get thrown out.

    >

  140. MMack, If this was a court case, Pats would lose badly. it would not have been thrown out. All the bs about leaks and such would never have been allowed into evidence. So there goes your main rant and rave. There is the testimony of several witnesses to what the starting pressure of the gameballs were. There is a perfectly logical explaination how which guage was used. The Pats would only have Walt’s memory to rely on but then they would be married to that guage and have to conduct all their experiments using that guage. However, the would have to eventually pair it up with a master guage and at the end of the day they would still be screwed. That is, even if they had the nerve to hire their own experts. And I don’t care how much Kraft paid them could ever explain the texts. There is simply no defense of them. If you want to clear Brady, then you got to clear Jim and John. So, why don’t you focus on that. Good luck.

  141. And, if this was a court of law, Brady would get laughed at by a jury. He simply has none and no lawyer, not even Kessler could rehab. And, you don’t know what JJ and JM would say under oath. If I was their lawyer, I make a plea deal.

  142. Did any of the scientists that the NFLPA consult perform a scientific analysis under the same weather conditions and environmental conditions that existed on the the night of the AFCCG?

    ——-

    nobody has, and that includes Exponent. And that is because nobody knows what those conditions were.

    1. Nobody knows what the starting pressure and temperature of each ball was.

    2. Nobody knows what the halftime temperature of each ball was.

    3. Nobody knows which gauge was used, or even if the same gauge was used on both Patriots and Colts balls pregame. Or the if the gauge that McNally left for the officials was used pregame, or at halftime (the NFL’s security guy that works at Gillette (Farley) watched the halftime testing, and had noted that one of the gauges used was Jastremski’s gauge…..somehow that got changed later….which doesn’t make sense. Wells tried to explain this by blaming it on a Patriots employee, but according to the Wells report they cleared the locker room of all non-league employees before testing, so that excuse doesn’t make sense. also, other than Farley’s notes on this saying JJ’s gauge was used, the last person to have his hands on that gauge was the NFL’s James Daniel, who tested the intercepted ball 3 times in that locker room. Both that gauge and the Colts gauge disappeared after that.) talk about suspicious activity.

    You kind of need to know all that information in order to have any chance of replicating the conditions of that night.

  143. luckyforus says:

    You continue to make comments based only on your biased opinion and not facts.

    Brady’s phone would have been subpoenaed as well as testimony by JJ and JM, etc. Also in fairness probably Wells notes too.

    You or I have no idea what’s on Brady’s phone nor do you have any idea how these people would testify. So how do you conclude it would get thrown out.
    ——————————-

    The only thing that Ted Wells was tasked to do was to determine whether or not the footballs used in the 2015 AFC Championship Game, between the New England Patriots and the Indianapolis Colts, were deflated after the referees inspected them. That is it. Failing to definitively ascertain that would put an end to any further proceedings.

    How do you think the NFL or the referees would have answered the question as to why they did not check the footballs before the start of the game, especially since Walt Anderson claimed that for the first time ever, he was unable to locate the footballs before the start of the game?

    If all of the text messages, some of them sent months before the season even started, between McNally and Jastremski are so damaging, why is that no one even knows what they were actually talking about?

    You people have been duped by Goodell into believing that everything points to Brady being guilty of something, when the simple fact is that nothing that was released shows any evidence of any scheme to deflate any footballs, ever. There is not one single word that relates to deflating footballs below 12.5PSI, and if you can point one out, you will be the first one to do so.

  144. it’s kind of amazing…Wells concludes that “Jim McNally and John Jastremski participated in a deliberate plan to circumvent the rules by releasing air from Patriots game balls after the examination of the footballs by NFL game officials at the AFC Championship Game”.

    Then Wells wrote “Our scientific consultants informed us that the data alone did not provide a basis for them to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering, as the analysis of such data is ultimately dependent upon assumptions and information that is uncertain.”

    and then “Even putting aside the experimental results, we believe that our conclusions are supported by the evidence in its entirety.”

    WHAT? Wells concludes they released air after officials inspected them, and even though they can’t prove air was released because they don’t know the game conditions, he’ll still conclude they released air after the balls were inspected?

  145. luckyforus says:
    Aug 17, 2016 11:03 AM

    ==========================

    1. Did any of the scientists that the NFLPA consult perform a scientific analysis under the same weather conditions and environmental conditions that existed on the the night of the AFCCG?

    2. The deflation and needle talk was between JJ and JM. JM’s role was caretaker of the balls and to let the refs know Brady wanted them at 12.5. JM should not have inflated or deflated any balls. Brady didn’t want those balls touched after he picked them. So why are they talking about inflation/deflation. They should have been at 12.5 before Brady selected them and not altered after by JJ or JM.

    3. They gave the ref the rule for 12.5 because Brady wanted to make sure they were either 12.5 or if altered after they would be slightly below 12.5. If they stated no preference the ref might have adjusted them to 13 the mid point and it’s a lot harder to let a little air out and know where you end up. There wasn’t time for JM to gauge them.

    ========

    1. Well they took Exponent’s results and trashed their conclusions, so yes.

    2. Why shouldn’t have JM inflated or deflated any balls? You are just making that up, wholecloth. Brady spoke in general that he selects footballs and wants them kept just the way they are, but as we know, footballs air pressure can change thus are not in the same condition he selected them in. And then the Jets game happened where the refs illegally inflated some of the balls. Its not hard.

    3. What are you basing this on? If JM was deflating the balls, it makes zero sense for him to aimlessly deflate them without a gauge. All the footballs would be different and that is not what Brady wanted. He wanted them all the same. Doing it the way you describe does not help him at all, and potentially makes Brady’s job harder. And the refs are not supposed to touch the footballs PSI unless they are outside the range, what did you base that point on?

  146. 345snarkavenue says:

    You kind of need to know all that information in order to have any chance of replicating the conditions of that night.
    —————————–

    The only thing that someone with integrity would need need to know is that temperature can affect the air pressure inside of a football, and that there may have been a rational explanation as to why it appeared that the footballs were deflated.

    Unfortunately, rather than wait and gather information, the NFL decided to leak some lies about the guy that intercepted the football and about the air pressure in the footballs used by the Patriots, and at that point, any chance at anything resembling a fair proceeding went out the window.

  147. luckyforus says:
    Aug 15, 2016 4:53 PM

    If I was innocent I wouldn’t have rolled over.
    =================
    And yet how many times did we get to read your posts encouraging Brady to quit and take the punishment like a man.

    LOL

  148. luckyforus says:
    Aug 17, 2016 11:26 AM

    You continue to make comments based only on your biased opinion and not facts.

    Brady’s phone would have been subpoenaed as well as testimony by JJ and JM, etc. Also in fairness probably Wells notes too.

    You or I have no idea what’s on Brady’s phone nor do you have any idea how these people would testify. So how do you conclude it would get thrown out.
    =============================
    Actually it’s pretty simple to understand why the case would be dismissed. It would never meet the legal burden of proof. First Brady would be presumed innocent instead of guilty which immediately would put the NFLs case at risk. Second, as has already been proven numerous times now the manufactured science wouldn’t hold up. Lastly, there is nothing in the texts themselves that prove a scheme to deflate footballs or that Brady was directly involved. What’s left is nothing but conjecture and supposition.

  149. limakey says:

    MMack, If this was a court case, Pats would lose badly. it would not have been thrown out. All the bs about leaks and such would never have been allowed into evidence.
    ————————

    Why would you mistakenly believe that a clear pattern of lying and spreading misinformation on the part of the NFL would not be admissible in court? The legal counsel for the Patriots pleaded with the NFL to stop spreading lies, and it fell on deaf ears.

    The whole fraud was built with one lie on top of another by the NFL.

  150. The Patriots may not come across as credible either. But the NFL has a much larger history of lying. Anybody who thinks a judge would believe the NFL over Brady is just kidding themselves.

  151. according to the WR, Richard Farley, the NFL’s security guy at Gillette told Wells that he always accompany’s the balls to the field. So when Walt noticed they were gone from the locker room Farley went looking for them. Went to the field, didn’t see them or McNally, but he saw NFL Director of Investigative Services John Raucci, so Farley went and asked him if he had seen McNally (that’s per the WR). Not if he had seen the balls, but if he had seen McNally.

    I curious how he knew who McNally was.

  152. 345 snark, This is an honest answer, McNally was known to many of them just because of how long he has been at his job as well as how professional and polite he was. Likewise, McNally was very familiar with various crews and officials. Which, in my opinion is why McNally just took the balls without asking for Walt Anderson’s permission. Anderson apparently is one of the few officials who would deny any request to bring the balls out to the field. His habit is to follow protocol and escort the balls out to the field.

  153. limakey says:
    Aug 17, 2016 11:32 AM
    ======================
    First the NFL would have to meet the burden of proof which would be monumental in and of itself. That said, the NFL would not have Wells opinion of Anderson’s recollection to draw on. Anderson would be in a position to answer that freely. I can assure you the NFL would not want Anderson on the stand doing that. Regardless, everything comes under scrutiny at that point. The unrecorded starting pressures. The unrecorded locker room temperatures. The uncalibrated gauges. The other egregious The egregious other errors in not following any semblance of scientific protocol. The lack of any direct link to Brady in the texts. The credibility of the NFL and so on and so on.

  154. 345snarkavenue says:
    Aug 17, 2016 3:14 PM
    according to the WR, Richard Farley, the NFL’s security guy at Gillette told Wells that he always accompany’s the balls to the field. So when Walt noticed they were gone from the locker room Farley went looking for them. Went to the field, didn’t see them or McNally, but he saw NFL Director of Investigative Services John Raucci, so Farley went and asked him if he had seen McNally (that’s per the WR). Not if he had seen the balls, but if he had seen McNally.

    I curious how he knew who McNally was.
    ===========================
    The other interesting tidbit from Farley was admitting this was the only time the balls went accounted for. It seems kind of hard to have a long term scheme to deflate footballs … once.

  155. Fireroger, the NFL would easily meet their burden of proof. And do we need to state why the NFL changed their policy on this. Hint – Spygate. The biggest mistake the Pats made in their defensive was to go all out on the refs. Not recording the game ball pressures and other side issues. It is clear that the officials were lax on this for years and years. The only thing it highlights is just how easy it was to game the system. Another mistake was while highlighting other faults and such, they completely ignore their own breaking of protocol. McNally stole the balls. They two texts that are very damning against Brady, one clearly about Tom knowing him and his stress level of getting it done. Walt Anderson, NFL has no issues with him. He made a mistake. What, the Pats are going to argue that it was impossible for him to make a mistake?

  156. ======= The other interesting tidbit from Farley was admitting this was the only time the balls went accounted for. It seems kind of hard to have a long term scheme to deflate footballs … once.

    ========================

    The other interesting tidbit you left out is this from page 62 of the Wells report. So this may have been the only time JM took the balls without approval on most game days he was in the locker room alone. Interesting. Whether McNally frequently, infrequently or never leaves the Officials Locker Room before the game officials depart for the field is not determinative of whether there has been an opportunity to tamper with game balls during the regular season. The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected). The physical configuration of the Officials Locker Room at Gillette Stadium, with a back dressing area separated by a door from a sitting room area, would provide complete privacy during this time period. Indeed, even the sitting area is generally quiet at that time during the regular season, unlike the busy scene during a playoff game. Milton Britton, the regular season k-ball coordinator for the Patriots, reported that he regularly watches ESPN in the sitting room area while everyone else is on the field and stated that “nine out of ten times” the sitting room is otherwise empty, apart from McNally. On the night of the AFC Championship Game, however, the Officials Locker Room was crowded and McNally is unlikely to have had an opportunity to tamper with the balls in the locker room without being detected.

    >

  157. luckyforus……so the locker/sitting room was in fact busy the night of the AFCCG….and therefore once they got the ‘game back on’ directive the bathroom likely was too…..I know if I was there I would have wanted to take a leak before going to the field.

    limakey….Raucci had only been with the NFL since 2012. Two seasons. I suppose you expect us to believe he spent his Sundays schmoozing with McNally at Gillette instead of say….working on the Ray Rice investigation. Right. I speculate that McNally was pointed out to him that day.

  158. luckyforus says:
    Aug 18, 2016 10:27 AM

    ======= The other interesting tidbit from Farley was admitting this was the only time the balls went accounted for. It seems kind of hard to have a long term scheme to deflate footballs … once.

    ========================

    The other interesting tidbit you left out is this from page 62 of the Wells report. So this may have been the only time JM took the balls without approval on most game days he was in the locker room alone. Interesting. Whether McNally frequently, infrequently or never leaves the Officials Locker Room before the game officials depart for the field is not determinative of whether there has been an opportunity to tamper with game balls during the regular season. The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected). The physical configuration of the Officials Locker Room at Gillette Stadium, with a back dressing area separated by a door from a sitting room area, would provide complete privacy during this time period. Indeed, even the sitting area is generally quiet at that time during the regular season, unlike the busy scene during a playoff game. Milton Britton, the regular season k-ball coordinator for the Patriots, reported that he regularly watches ESPN in the sitting room area while everyone else is on the field and stated that “nine out of ten times” the sitting room is otherwise empty, apart from McNally. On the night of the AFC Championship Game, however, the Officials Locker Room was crowded and McNally is unlikely to have had an opportunity to tamper with the balls in the locker room without being detected.

    ……..

    Another interesting tidbit you left out was that the post game PSI measurements revealed the NFL clowns at halftime overinflated some of the footballs to an illegal PSI. One was still over at 13.65 and depending on what temperature they were inflated at and then measured at, its likely the others were too. Which is proves again, that they had no idea what they were doing. And Wells claims “we identified no evidence of any bias or unfairness” (p74), and yet Kensil was giddy over the whole thing and even told Schoenfeld that they were in trouble and that the balls were re-set within the permissible range, which, looking at the post game measurements, was a lie. That sounds a little biased to me.

  159. 345, Why didn’t Jim McNally not ask permission to take the balls? Why did he lie when he gave his first interview, that he took the balls directly to the field? Why wasn’t McNally in his usual location when they went to look for him? Why did Jim McNally say he didn’t know he needed an escort? Why did he later bascially say he decides when he takes the balls out onto the field? Why, after claiming that he often used the restroom but later claimed he used a non existiant urinal? Who said he was given a directive? Who gives that directive? Why did he say that he doesn’t know why he took the balls? Why did he give so many different verisons? Why did he give answers that were so easily contradicted by other officials who worked with him before? Are they all lying on his ass?

  160. lima

    Why are so concerned with McNally’s credibility yet take Wells and Goodell at their word? Everyone involved is giving some version of their own story and being questioned by professionals who are trying to trip you up and discredit you is going to cause confusion like this. Wells is a lawyer, its his job to break people down to help the narrative of the party signing his checks. There are very few quotes from the interviews he conducted and his notes were locked away from the public. And yet for some reason we know Brady’s pool cover preference. Wells often reverted to summarizing in his own words what he thinks was the gist of what the interviewees were trying to say. He was an extension of the NFL and the NFL had already made up its mind. The “independence” was an obvious lie. But the science doesn’t lie and the hard evidence is nonexistent and the NFL’s recent credibility is nil.

  161. veddermn8 says:

    Another interesting tidbit you left out was that the post game PSI measurements revealed the NFL clowns at halftime overinflated some of the footballs to an illegal PSI.
    ———————————-

    The reason that the footballs measured higher at the end of the game is because the bozos were adding air to footballs that hadn’t lost any air.

  162. luckyforus says:

    The other interesting tidbit you left out is this from page 62 of the Wells report. So this may have been the only time JM took the balls without approval on most game days he was in the locker room alone. Interesting. Whether McNally frequently, infrequently or never leaves the Officials Locker Room before the game officials depart for the field is not determinative of whether there has been an opportunity to tamper with game balls during the regular season. The game officials we interviewed—when considering the potential for tampering with the game balls—almost uniformly expressed greater concern that a locker room attendant generally has up to fifteen or twenty minutes alone with the game balls when the game officials are on the field for the pre-game walk-through approximately fifty minutes before kickoff (and after the balls have been inspected). The physical configuration of the Officials Locker Room at Gillette Stadium, with a back dressing area separated by a door from a sitting room area, would provide complete privacy during this time period. Indeed, even the sitting area is generally quiet at that time during the regular season, unlike the busy scene during a playoff game. Milton Britton, the regular season k-ball coordinator for the Patriots, reported that he regularly watches ESPN in the sitting room area while everyone else is on the field and stated that “nine out of ten times” the sitting room is otherwise empty, apart from McNally. On the night of the AFC Championship Game, however, the Officials Locker Room was crowded and McNally is unlikely to have had an opportunity to tamper with the balls in the locker room without being detected.
    ———————————–

    The only this this proves is that the referees aren’t locking up the footballs like they are supposed to.

  163. The only this this proves is that the referees aren’t locking up the footballs like they are supposed to.

    =======================

    And it proves JM had an opportunity to deflate the balls at every home game right there in the officials locker room. No reason to take them into the bathroom and use a non existent urinal.

    >

  164. luckyforus says:
    Aug 18, 2016 10:14 PM

    And it proves JM had an opportunity to deflate the balls at every home game right there in the officials locker room. No reason to take them into the bathroom and use a non existent urinal
    ———

    same opportunity that the locker room attendant had in 31 other stadiums.

    I think the league needs a broader investigation, including all teams, and to collect lots of phones. because as has been proven in these comments sections, opportunity is smoke and smoke can only come from fire.

    suspensions & fines for everyone!

  165. limakey….I tried posting a much longer version of this, twice yesterday, so I’m not going to get into the detail I previously did. I’ll sum it up as follows:

    The first 3 interviews JM had were with NFL Security. As is noted in the Wells report, JM denies, to Wells, that he made many of the statements Security claims he made. Wells said those were in a report Security provided. Hmmm….I’m curious if that was ‘wordsmithed’.

    Without seeing Security’s report and the investigative notes, it’s hard determine what JM might have said. Not much of what Wells provides from JM is an actual quote. So like I have said before, it is Wells’ opinion of the evidence…..not evidence itself.

    I think a lot of your questions could easily be explained…..but why should I bother, one would need an open mind to consider them.

  166. 345, I feel your pain, that has happened to me several times. Making a detailed response and losing it. And I went into this with an open mind and I still have one.

  167. luckyforus says:
    Aug 18, 2016 10:14 PM
    And it proves JM had an opportunity to deflate the balls at every home game right there in the officials locker room. No reason to take them into the bathroom and use a non existent urinal.
    ========================
    Actually it proves the opportunity existed for every locker room attendant.

  168. @mmack66

    “PS. Deflating a football doesn’t make it easier to throw, catch, or hold on to. If you believe that, then you are easily duped by the likes of Roger Goodell and his band of idiots.”

    You don’t believe that???
    Read that sentence again so you can see how stupid it sounds.

    Do you even know what a football is?
    Have you ever thrown one?

    The TB remora are out in full, delusional, idiotic force today.

  169. hukdeep says:
    Aug 19, 2016 9:35 AM

    You don’t believe that???
    Read that sentence again so you can see how stupid it sounds.

    Do you even know what a football is?
    Have you ever thrown one?

    The TB remora are out in full, delusional, idiotic force today.
    ——————–

    Do any of you dupes have any evidence, other than what Integrity Goodell has spoon fed you, for the claim that a deflated football is easier to throw, catch, or hold on to?

    Again, I ask that if this were the case, why would Aaron Rodgers, who is on record stating his preference for over-inflated footballs, deliberately handicap himself, his back, and his receivers?

    There is absolutely no statistical or empirical data that backs up the claim that deflated footballs give a team a competitive advantage.

    It doesn’t really matter though, because if it wasn’t deflated footballs, “stealing” signs, bugging locker rooms, stealing playbooks, or messing with the headsets, the bozos would just find some other delusion as to why their pathetic teams routinely lose to the superior New England Patriots.

  170. Vedderman, I agree, science doesn’t lie, but you and the Patriots accuse it of lying everyday. Science doesn’t lie, but in this case, it could not tell the whole story either. The Wells Report was clear on this and this is where the texts and the credibility of three main people come into play. Everything you accuse me of, just taking Goodell and Wells at their word is not true. And I base it on reading all the documents. What convinced me of the Pats guilt, was the Wells Report In Context. Your version of events, your explaination of events. Your side did nothing but rant and rave and pointed the fingers at everybody. Saying nothing more then, “they did it too!”, called everybody liars, called everybody elses credibility into question while never once addressing their own credibility issues, which they knew they could never overcome. So they waged a war in the media about issues that had nothing to do with the matter at hand, were the footballs deflated after the ref inspected them.

  171. luckyforus says:

    And it proves JM had an opportunity to deflate the balls at every home game right there in the officials locker room. No reason to take them into the bathroom and use a non existent urinal.
    ————————–

    And it proves that the guy sitting there watching ESPN could have tampered with the footballs.

    Since there was no clear chain of custody, any conclusions as to what might have happened with the footballs is nothing more than foolish speculation.

  172. luckyforus says:
    Aug 18, 2016 10:14 PM

    And it proves JM had an opportunity to deflate the balls at every home game right there in the officials locker room. No reason to take them into the bathroom and use a non existent urinal.

    ===

    The “non existent urinal” point is disingenuous as there was a standard toilet in that bathroom. It’s a weak point to make if McNally didn’t remember what type of bathroom it was. If it was actually a telephone booth or an IT closet instead of a bathroom as JM said, that would be a real point.

    And the referees are STILL terrible as taking care of the footballs even after all of this. Last year during the Pats-Chiefs playoff game, the refs forgot the air gauges and the kicking balls at their hotel which was all the way back in Boston. The gauges and footballs needed a police escort to get to the game on time.

    So the NFL changes its mind from logging the PSI in the Referees Report which the operations manual demands, to merely a “spot check”, and then the referees still aren’t inclined enough to remember to bring the balls with them to the game. Doesn’t seem like the learned much, or is it that they really don’t want to learn?

  173. The “non existent urinal” point is disingenuous as there was a standard toilet in that bathroom. It’s a weak point to make if McNally didn’t remember what type of bathroom it was. If it was actually a telephone booth or an IT closet instead of a bathroom as JM said, that would be a real point.

    And the referees are STILL terrible as taking care of the footballs even after all of this. Last year during the Pats-Chiefs playoff game, the refs forgot the air gauges and the kicking balls at their hotel which was all the way back in Boston. The gauges and footballs needed a police escort to get to the game on time.

    So the NFL changes its mind from logging the PSI in the Referees Report which the operations manual demands, to merely a “spot check”, and then the referees still aren’t inclined enough to remember to bring the balls with them to the game. Doesn’t seem like the learned much, or is it that they really don’t want to learn?

    ==========================

    The non-existent urinal is part of the mountains of circumstantial evidence. JM didn’t tell the NFL he stopped at the bathroom until he was caught on video and then lied about using a urinal that wasn’t there.

    And blaming the system that created the opportunity is deflecting the truth.

    >

  174. luckyforus says:

    The non-existent urinal is part of the mountains of circumstantial evidence. JM didn’t tell the NFL he stopped at the bathroom until he was caught on video and then lied about using a urinal that wasn’t there.

    And blaming the system that created the opportunity is deflecting the truth.

    ======

    There is an equal amount of hard evidence against this whole debacle. And your basing all of your assumptions about JM through the filter of what the NFL wanted to release to the public even though they have been very dishonest with the public over the last several years. You can’t dispute that.

    And believing the authority that created the system is deflecting reality.

  175. No kidding. We all know that Integrity Goodell is a habitual liar, and the “independent” Wells Report was “wordsmithed” by the NFL’s own legal counsel Jeff Pash, so why anyone would believe anything that Goodell or Wells claimed is a complete mystery.

    Where is all of the testimony from Jastremski and McNally in which they state that there was no scheme to deflate footballs?

    The Wells Report is so biased against finding the truth that even Fox News would say that it was too one sided.

  176. MMack, Seriously, do you ever think through your statements? Who broke the chain of custody? It would be Jim McNally. Jim McNally’s credibility is the most crictical keys to this case. No one on your side has ever produced one single, non-laughable point on why he should be believed. The only person who could have given him a tad of credibility was Tom Brady. And Tom Brady denied knowing his name and what his job was.

  177. There is an equal amount of hard evidence against this whole debacle. And your basing all of your assumptions about JM through the filter of what the NFL wanted to release to the public even though they have been very dishonest with the public over the last several years. You can’t dispute that.

    And believing the authority that created the system is deflecting reality.

    ========================

    Your definition of hard evidence is claiming everyone lies, is biased and hates the Patriots. And know the science is not hard evidence that the balls deflated naturally.

    That’s what all crooks do, the blame everyone else.

    >

  178. luckyforus says:

    Your definition of hard evidence is claiming everyone lies, is biased and hates the Patriots. And know the science is not hard evidence that the balls deflated naturally.
    —————————–

    It is a proven scientific fact that cool temperatures are going to lower the air pressure inside of a football.

    It is a proven fact that ALL of the footballs in use during the 2015 AFC Championship Game showed signs of lower air pressure.

    It is an absolute fact that halftime of the 2015 AFC Championship Game was the first time ever that the PSI levels of footballs were taken during a game.

    It is also a fact that the NFL had absolutely no idea what happens to footballs during the normal course of a game.

    But, based upon an unsubstantiated e-mail from some embarrassed owner, and some flawed measurements taken at halftime of a game played in cool and rainy conditions, the NFL somehow concluded that not only did the Patriots deflate the footballs for that game, but they had an ongoing scheme to deflate footballs, going back years.

    Surely they had some sort of evidence of this scheme. Nope. All they had were a bunch of old, ambiguous, out of context text messages, NONE of which even remotely discusses deflating a football to anywhere below 12.5PSI.

  179. luckyforus says:
    Aug 19, 2016 11:24 AM

    ========================

    Your definition of hard evidence is claiming everyone lies, is biased and hates the Patriots. And know the science is not hard evidence that the balls deflated naturally.

    That’s what all crooks do, the blame everyone else.
    =========

    Um, “claiming” everyone lies? Its not me stating a “claim”, its a fact. The NFL and Goodell have lied about the “independence” of Wells Report , lied about Brady testimony in open court, refused to correct their office’s own false leaks, lied to Brady about the privacy of his communications, said PSI was to be logged then changed it to “spot checks” and refused to release any data on it, hid shared revenue from players for owners to keep, denied concussion impact, defunded concussion research, then acknowledged concussion impact and said it would protect players better but then tried to add more games and successfully added more gamedays per week, lied under oath in court about the NFL’s attempts to secure the second Rice tape, lied on national tv at presser about the impact of second Rice tape on his changed suspension, lied about the new “transparency” of the NFL, and on and on it goes. And just last week the whole Hall of Fame game debacle where they knew the game was to be cancelled and yet decided to keep the crowd there longer to sell shirts and concessions. Those are not “claims”. But thanks for calling me a crook. Rare is the debate that is won by name calling.

    And that is the thing about science, it doesn’t care if you believe it or not, it marches right on being true, regardless. If you stop believing in gravity, it doesn’t mean you fly off the earth. So count yourself lucky, lucky.

  180. MMack, you need to know the basics. The NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, along with the NFL Security Report on why an investigation was being opened. They knew all the balls measured were below legal limits — at that time NO one knew about IDG and the affects mother nature would have.
    You constantly slam the Wells Report as being wordsmithed. You constantly say science doesn’t lie but you accuse it of. What does one have to compare the Wells Report? The Pats Respone, the Wells Report In Context. Isn’t that also a wordsmith document to spin the evidence to favor your side? Or is it only possible for the NFL to be guilty of this and not the Patriots? Remember, he was called the deflator because he was fat? Remember when that changed to he only referred to himself once, several months prior? Isn’t that classic wordsmithing on your side?

  181. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 11:20 AM

    MMack, Seriously, do you ever think through your statements?
    ———————-

    Yep. I know you don’t, so I don’t have to ask you.

    I don’t know why you so steadfastly support a man that is a habitual liar, and refuse to accept that there is a perfectly good reason why those footballs appeared to have been deflated.

    That’s all anyone really wanted. For the NFL to accept that they might have jumped the gun and admit that the weather conditions might have caused the apparent deflation. Send a memo out to all of the teams, reminding them what the rule is, and that they would be keeping a closer check in the future.

    Heck, they even claimed they were going to perform random checks throughout the season, and they even switched out the footballs during the Vikings playoff game.

  182. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 12:17 PM

    MMack, you need to know the basics. The NFL sent a letter to the Patriots, along with the NFL Security Report on why an investigation was being opened. They knew all the balls measured were below legal limits — at that time NO one knew about IDG and the affects mother nature would have.
    You constantly slam the Wells Report as being wordsmithed. You constantly say science doesn’t lie but you accuse it of. What does one have to compare the Wells Report? The Pats Respone, the Wells Report In Context. Isn’t that also a wordsmith document to spin the evidence to favor your side? Or is it only possible for the NFL to be guilty of this and not the Patriots? Remember, he was called the deflator because he was fat? Remember when that changed to he only referred to himself once, several months prior? Isn’t that classic wordsmithing on your side?
    —————————-

    The NFL learned about the IGL during the course of the investigation.

    If they had any of that integrity that they always talk about, they would have realized that they may have jumped the gun.

    At the very least, there was a plausible explanation for the footballs reading lower than 12.5PSI. The NFL ignored that, so their investigation was flawed in that it was completely one-sided against Brady.

    You guys can ramble on about circumstantial evidence all you want, but none of it proves, in any way, a scheme to deflate footballs.

  183. limakey says:

    You constantly slam the Wells Report as being wordsmithed. You constantly say science doesn’t lie but you accuse it of. What does one have to compare the Wells Report? The Pats Respone, the Wells Report In Context. Isn’t that also a wordsmith document to spin the evidence to favor your side?
    —————————

    The issue with the wordsmithing of the Wells Report by Jeff Pash, counsel for the NFL, is that the habitual liar Integrity Goodell claimed over and over that the Wells investigation was an independent investigation. No where but in the Soviet Union, and now the NFL, is an investigation independent when the chief legal counsel of the party that instigated the investigation is involved with crafting the report of the investigation.

    Unfairness on the part of the NFL permeated the whole proceeding, from the first leak to the media and right through the appeal hearing.

  184. MMack, this is not about Goodell. This is about the intergrity of the game and the public’s confidence in the game. Bottom line, I want to be able to trust the final score and that the stats of that game are reliable. This is about cheating, about a player and personnel ignoring a rule to gain an unfair advantage. This investigation had to take place. And there were only three outcomes. 1) The balls were deflated but after an investigation, Exponent has concluded to a scientfic degree of certainty, that all the air loss was due to IGL. Therefore, there this case is closed. 2) After an investigation, the balls were found to be deflated under legal limits, however, there is no other evidence to support tampering. The Patriots and Tom Brady fully cooperated and made all requested material available for our review. All witnesses were found to be credible. There were no electrionic evidence or other evidence to support a deflation scheme. And then we have 3) which is where we are at.

  185. You constantly slam the Wells Report as being wordsmithed

    ——

    Wells testified in the appeal that his report was wordsmithed by Pash.

    Wells slammed his own report. Make no mistake, the Wells report is an interpretation/opinion of the evidence, it is not evidence itself.

    Big difference. Too many people wrongly believe it is evidence. It may contain SOME of the evidence, but a large portion of it is an interpretive summary and not actually evidence.

  186. limakey says:

    I want to be able to trust the final score and that the stats of that game are reliable.

    ————–

    Well the Colts illegally inserted a needle into one of the Pats balls during the AFC game, so where was the investigation/punishment for that?

    And there was a Pats football post game that measured at 13.65 and other Pats balls that approached 13.5 meaning the clowns at halftime illegally OVER inflated the footballs, thus hurting the “integrity of the game”. But there was no investigation there, ho-hum.

  187. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 1:14 PM

    MMack, this is not about Goodell. This is about the intergrity of the game and the public’s confidence in the game. Bottom line, I want to be able to trust the final score and that the stats of that game are reliable.
    ———————————-

    Believe me, you can trust that the final score and the stats from the 2015 AFC Championship game are legit. The Patriots played even better in the second half of that game, when they were using over-inflated footballs.

    You should probably concern yourself with the poor officiating if you are concerned about the reliability of the games.

  188. Vedd, this what doesn’t make sense. Didn’t the Colts admit they did test the ball? So why the investigation? How does this in anyway shape or form determine if the balls were e, with? And how does this rule violation compare to McNally stealing the footballs? Tell me, in the course of this investigation, which one is more important.

  189. Vedd, this what doesn’t make sense. Didn’t the Colts admit they did test the ball? So why the investigation? How does this in anyway shape or form determine if the balls were e, with? And how does this rule violation compare to McNally stealing the footballs? Tell me, in the course of this investigation, which one is more important.

    ===========================

    It’s like someone jaywalking to catch a robber. I don’t think anyone cares about prosecuting a jaywalker that caught a robber. >

  190. MMack, I will never trust the results of any Pats game, ever again. I will never trust Tom Brady not to cheat. It appears after Goodell, literally saved your owner, your coach and his staff from certain banishment and implemented new polices and procedures to preserve the publics’ confidence in the game, your organization continues to piss on NFL fans right to enjoy and trust a game that is being played fair and square. None us will ever know if our teams were out cheated or if we ever lost fairly.

  191. And that is the thing about science, it doesn’t care if you believe it or not, it marches right on being true, regardless. If you stop believing in gravity, it doesn’t mean you fly off the earth. So count yourself lucky, lucky.

    ——

    good point, but funny as hell.

  192. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 2:24 PM

    MMack, I will never trust the results of any Pats game, ever again. I will never trust Tom Brady not to cheat. It appears after Goodell, literally saved your owner, your coach and his staff from certain banishment and implemented new polices and procedures to preserve the publics’ confidence in the game, your organization continues to piss on NFL fans right to enjoy and trust a game that is being played fair and square. None us will ever know if our teams were out cheated or if we ever lost fairly.
    —————————-

    Jesus christ. Goodell didn’t save anyone from banishment. Where do you get all of that nonsense from? Going by your logic, why haven’t the Jets been banished from the league? They got caught actually tampering with the footballs, and they got caught filming signals. Is it because they don’t pose a threat to any of the owners because they are mediocre?

  193. luckyforus says:
    Aug 19, 2016 2:17 PM

    Vedd, this what doesn’t make sense. Didn’t the Colts admit they did test the ball? So why the investigation? How does this in anyway shape or form determine if the balls were e, with? And how does this rule violation compare to McNally stealing the footballs? Tell me, in the course of this investigation, which one is more important.

    ===========================

    It’s like someone jaywalking to catch a robber. I don’t think anyone cares about prosecuting a jaywalker that caught a robber.
    ———————————————-

    Is the rule important or not? The Colts violated the rule and admitted it. The halftime crew that overinflated the balls were shown to also have broken a PSI rule. With a most biased investigation, the best the NFL came up with is “more probable than not” as to whether the Patriots broke a rule. And yet of the three, the Patriots were hammered hard and the other two were shrugged off. Strange, no?

    And lucky, its not a jaywalker and a robber, its a robber stealing something to try to prove someone else stole something.

  194. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 2:04 PM
    Vedd, this what doesn’t make sense. Didn’t the Colts admit they did test the ball? So why the investigation? How does this in anyway shape or form determine if the balls were e, with? And how does this rule violation compare to McNally stealing the footballs? Tell me, in the course of this investigation, which one is more important.
    ==========================
    How about both? Trying to legitimizing the breaking of the same rule by one team and not the other doesn’t really make a ton of sense. Just sayin’.

    It also speaks to the nature of the “non-sting operation” levied against the Patriots.

  195. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 2:24 PM

    MMack, I will never trust the results of any Pats game, ever again. I will never trust Tom Brady not to cheat.
    ———————–

    Given your low standards of proof, I don’t know how you could ever trust any game, coach, player or team ever again.

    I don’t know how much money you lost on the 2015 AFC Championship Game and Super Bowl XLIX, but it must have been a bundle.

  196. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 2:24 PM
    MMack, I will never trust the results of any Pats game, ever again. I will never trust Tom Brady not to cheat. It appears after Goodell, literally saved your owner, your coach and his staff from certain banishment and implemented new polices and procedures to preserve the publics’ confidence in the game, your organization continues to piss on NFL fans right to enjoy and trust a game that is being played fair and square. None us will ever know if our teams were out cheated or if we ever lost fairly.
    ===========================
    That’s rich. What new policies and procedures were implemented again? And how exactly does it even remotely go to mending the publics’ confidence in the game? Would it be all that random PSI data that’s never been released?

    If your team(s) are already thinking about the advantages of video taped signals or deflated balls you’ve already lost anyway. Forget the fact there’s absolutely no reason to think there’s an advantage from either.

  197. If your team(s) are already thinking about the advantages of video taped signals or deflated balls you’ve already lost anyway. Forget the fact there’s absolutely no reason to think there’s an advantage from either.

    =======================

    If there’s no advantage from taping signals and deflating footballs why did Belicheat and Shady Brady cheat and tarnish their reputations. >

  198. MMack, Read the Commissioner’s memo to the owners and teams. Your team was proven, with conclusive proof of stealing offensive and defensive signals. Your team did not give a satisfactory answer on why you had an extra frequency that allowed Brady to have a live feed. Your team was conclusively caught with stealing other team’s playsheets and audible. Your team was given a free pass to avoid a congressional hearing. Kraft and Goodell worked very closely on this and strong armed the others to go along with the cover up. Had congress held a hearing, Belicheck would have been banished at the most and he and his entire staff would have been fired. Kraft would have been forced to sell his team.

  199. And that is the thing about science, it doesn’t care if you believe it or not, it marches right on being true, regardless. If you stop believing in gravity, it doesn’t mean you fly off the earth. So count yourself lucky, lucky.

    ==========================

    It’s only true if you have the right inputs.

    >

  200. luckyforus says:
    Aug 19, 2016 7:15 PM

    If there’s no advantage from taping signals and deflating footballs why did Belicheat and Shady Brady cheat and tarnish their reputations.

    =======================

    You take the word of a serial perjurer like Goodell like its gospel, please never serve on a jury…like, ever.

  201. luckyforus says:
    Aug 19, 2016 7:15 PM
    If your team(s) are already thinking about the advantages of video taped signals or deflated balls you’ve already lost anyway. Forget the fact there’s absolutely no reason to think there’s an advantage from either.

    =======================

    If there’s no advantage from taping signals and deflating footballs why did Belicheat and Shady Brady cheat and tarnish their reputations. >
    ——————————————————————-
    Probably the same reason Aaron RoDgers snuck over inflated balls past incompetent officials.

  202. If there’s no advantage from taping signals and deflating footballs why did Belicheat and Shady Brady cheat and tarnish their reputations. > ——————————————————————- Probably the same reason Aaron RoDgers snuck over inflated balls past incompetent officials

    =====================

    At least Aaron Rodgers admitted it.

    >

  203. limakey says:
    Aug 19, 2016 9:35 PM

    Fireroger, you don’t even know the advantage of tape signals.
    ————————-

    Why do you operate under the false assumption that the Patriots were the only team stealing signals?

    Once again, taping signals is legal. Why would a team not utilize as much information about their opponents as possible?

  204. MMack, taping of coaches hand signals has always been forbidden. The Patiots were the only ones who got caught red handed. Others may have taped but no one took it too the level of the Pats. It wasn’t just taping of the signals. There is no doubt Bill Belicheck was using stolen signals during real times games. The NFL just buried and made up new policies to try to stop it. There is legal spying in the NFL. However, your team took it out of this planet. Years of illegal “intelligence” was destroyed at the stadium. Just imagine how much was in Bill’s and Erine’s house that wasn’t destroyed that I have no doubt is still being used today.

  205. luckyforus says:
    Aug 20, 2016 2:44 PM

    If there’s no advantage from taping signals and deflating footballs why did Belicheat and Shady Brady cheat and tarnish their reputations. > ——————————————————————- Probably the same reason Aaron RoDgers snuck over inflated balls past incompetent officials

    =====================

    At least Aaron Rodgers admitted it.
    ———————————————————-
    Ya, about that. Why wasn’t an admitted cheater suspended four games, Packers fined a million bucks and a first and third round pick taken away? Meanwhile the NFL admits to having no evidence against another QB and, well, we all know what happened. Goodell himself said it wasn’t about footballs, it was about him having the power to do what he wants, when he wants, to who he wants. I guess I answered my own question. Apparently he didn’t feel like it. Integrity?

  206. ———————- Ya, about that. Why wasn’t an admitted cheater suspended four games, Packers fined a million bucks and a first and third round pick taken away? Meanwhile the NFL admits to having no evidence against another QB and, well, we all know what happened. Goodell himself said it wasn’t about footballs, it was about him having the power to do what he wants, when he wants, to who he wants. I guess I answered my own question. Apparently he didn’t feel like it. Integrity?

    ======================

    Hilarious you think what Rodgers may have done is comparable to Brady orchestrating a scheme to deflate footballs after the refs tested them. >

  207. luckyforus says:

    Hilarious you think what Rodgers may have done is comparable to Brady orchestrating a scheme to deflate footballs after the refs tested them.
    ——————————–

    I agree. It’s worse, because he actually admitted that he tries to cheat.

    I love the magical dividing line of the the referees “testing” the footballs that you delusional bozos have made up.

    What is hilarious is all of the bozos that think the referees sit there before each game and measure the PSI level of all of the footballs, adjusting them here and there to make sure that they all fall within 12.5-13.5 PSI.

    If the referees check the footballs, why would Rodgers instruct anyone to perform the meaningless task of over-inflating the footballs?

  208. Mmack, you are even better at proving Brady guilty then DanTheMan. It is an absolute delight to read. Your Rodgers post prove what a lying SOS Brady is!

  209. If the NFL had all of this “evidence” why weren’t Jastremski and McNally called to the appeal hearing to testify? (And didn’t Roger feign surprise that they weren’t there)?

    If I remember correctly weren’t both of them interviewed 3 or 4 times? Also, if I remember correctly the NFL wanted to interview McNally again, but were told it would have to be by phone because McNally has a real job as a beer distributor, and couldn’t take more time off to drive to Foxboro because of that job? (It’s a 3 – 3 1/2 hour round trip) as I recall!

  210. MMack, all the qb’s know every ref is different, that some did actually insert the needle and weigh the balls. Some just squeezed it. The diffeence is that Brady instructed his ball boys to alter the balls after the refs inspection. Don’t forget, your boys tried to sneak in underinflated balls by the ref as well. And even if the ref did not have to put more pressure in the balls, those balls would have still been altered. According to all, all of Brady’s balls were at 12.5 or 12.6. So why were they deflated? Why could Exponent only get the readings on the Pats balls using experiments and tests which did not match the known characterics of the game day conditions? Only conclusion, the Pats balls were not at 12.5 when they were tested at halftime, even after the variable were added in. So if you are calling Rodgers a cheat, then you are calling Brady a cheat.

  211. mmack66 says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:16 PM

    chuckshontaspads says:
    Aug 14, 2016 8:05 PM

    Lucky quite possibly gets the award for biggest troll moron, nothing he has posted is factual or unbiased..Uncle Roger is proud of you.
    —————————-

    He’s certainly the head dingaling when limakey isn’t around.
    __________________________________

    I have to agree with you both!

    I live in South Florida, about 8 miles away from the New Miami Stadium, and as I’ve stated many times I AM NOT A NE FAN, but I will say that I think they were setup for this deflated footballs thing. Especially after reading Wells, Appeal Transcripts, scientists (who put their reputations on the line), etc.

    Didn’t Reggie Wayne tryout with NE, but couldn’t cut it because “they work so hard!” He retired after that.

    Best visual of the IGL…Lady goes out of the supermarket with 8 birthday mylar balloons. As she’s waking to her car she recognizes someone and starts talking…Less than 5 minutes go by, all of a sudden…pop, pop, pop…From a cold supermarket into 104 degree heat…!

    I guess when you have the facts and science it shows that NE got shafted.

    (And to PFT, how come my posts are being deleted?)

  212. Surf, it was Brady’s appeal, only could call them or ask them to appear. And no one was surprised that they weren’t called. Jim McNally is the plague to Brady and everybody knew it. Brady did use their denials in his hearing. The NFL basically said then they should testify. Brady’s team again decline giving the NFL to apply a legal term, adverse inference, I think it is called, that any testimony given by JM other than their denials, would hurt Brady’s case. And I believe the NFL security interviewed JM 2 or 3 times and Wells, once. Wells wanted to interview him again, the Patriots wanted to impose conditions, refusing a face to face interview. Wells said they would meet him anywhere. According to Wells, he is not even sure if JM was even told about the second interview or that they would drive to NH and meet with him.

  213. The NFL, and Goodell in particular, are thoroughly corrupt. Remember it was Goodell who wouldn’t admit to a link between football and cognitive decline in players after concussions.

    It took me a long time to connect many of the dots. During Deflategate I kept expecting the science findings to sink in and somebody to step forward and make things right.

    Ultimately I came to realize this is all about power and the NFL. Right or wrong have nothing to do with anything that goes in with Goodell or the NFL.

    I still watch it because, I suppose, I believe in the effort being put forth by those gladiators in the arena. There’s nothing else to believe in.

  214. limakey says:

    Don’t forget, your boys tried to sneak in underinflated balls by the ref as well.
    ———————

    They did? When?

    Is that before or after the NFL employee was caught stealing footballs so he could sell them on eBay?

  215. Tom, I disagree with you. First, as regards to the concussion issues, I have not read enough on it. In regards to deflategate, I believe the league did step up and Comissioner Goodell did his job. This was not about power, this was doing his job where prior commissioners turned a blind eye. Yes, the NFL could have taken the easy way out and just not had an independant investigation and said, Tom said he didn’t do it and we believe him, so this matter is closed. However, Congress never would have gone for that. He also could have totally shut down the investigation based on human recollection. He also could have said that the balls were deflated beyond legal limits but there are too many variables to make a conclusion to any degree of scientific certainity, totally ignoring the texts and the total lack of cander of the three main players in this. He also could have ignored the lack of cooperation. He didn’t. Prior commissiones would have given a free pass to Tom Brady and the Pats. Pats already go their free pass with Spygate.

  216. limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 11:05 AM

    MMack, all the qb’s know every ref is different, that some did actually insert the needle and weigh the balls. Some just squeezed it. The diffeence is that Brady instructed his ball boys to alter the balls after the refs inspection. Don’t forget, your boys tried to sneak in underinflated balls by the ref as well. And even if the ref did not have to put more pressure in the balls, those balls would have still been altered. According to all, all of Brady’s balls were at 12.5 or 12.6. So why were they deflated? Why could Exponent only get the readings on the Pats balls using experiments and tests which did not match the known characterics of the game day conditions? Only conclusion, the Pats balls were not at 12.5 when they were tested at halftime, even after the variable were added in. So if you are calling Rodgers a cheat, then you are calling Brady a cheat.
    ———————————-

    Who are all of these people that knew all of the Patriots footballs were at 12.5-12.6 PSI?

    If you look at all of the pressures that were recorded at halftime, and adjust for the gauge that Walt Anderson said he used, and apply the IGL, you get numbers that were consistent with the pressures of the footballs at halftime.

    Exponent concluded that it was not possible to prove that the footballs had been tampered with, but the NFL went ahead and did it anyway.

  217. limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 8:24 PM

    Tom, I disagree with you. First, as regards to the concussion issues, I have not read enough on it. In regards to deflategate, I believe the league did step up and Comissioner Goodell did his job. This was not about power, this was doing his job where prior commissioners turned a blind eye. Yes, the NFL could have taken the easy way out and just not had an independant investigation and said, Tom said he didn’t do it and we believe him, so this matter is closed. However, Congress never would have gone for that. He also could have totally shut down the investigation based on human recollection. He also could have said that the balls were deflated beyond legal limits but there are too many variables to make a conclusion to any degree of scientific certainity, totally ignoring the texts and the total lack of cander of the three main players in this. He also could have ignored the lack of cooperation. He didn’t. Prior commissiones would have given a free pass to Tom Brady and the Pats. Pats already go their free pass with Spygate.
    ————————————–

    You get more delusional with every post.

    You’re right about previous commissioners, though. They never would have perpetrated such an obvious fraud in a pathetic attempt to gain some control over the players.

  218. limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 1:01 PM

    Sorry limakey…Your facts or alleged facts are incorrect.

    One must read and listen to BOTH sides before making a determination…One side lied…repeatedly…Brady and his
    attorney’s didn’t!

  219. mmack66 says:
    Aug 21, 2016 8:41 PM

    limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 8:24 PM

    You get more delusional with every post.

    You’re right about previous commissioners, though. They never would have perpetrated such an obvious fraud in a pathetic attempt to gain some control over the players
    __________________________________
    Where do some of you people get your information from, a box of CrackerJack?

  220. limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 1:01 PM

    Surf, it was Brady’s appeal, only could call them or ask them to appear. And no one was surprised that they weren’t called. Jim McNally is the plague to Brady and everybody knew it. Brady did use their denials in his hearing. The NFL basically said then they should testify. Brady’s team again decline giving the NFL to apply a legal term, adverse inference, I think it is called, that any testimony given by JM other than their denials, would hurt Brady’s case. And I believe the NFL security interviewed JM 2 or 3 times and Wells, once. Wells wanted to interview him again, the Patriots wanted to impose conditions, refusing a face to face interview. Wells said they would meet him anywhere. According to Wells, he is not even sure if JM was even told about the second interview or that they would drive to NH and meet with him.
    __________________________________

    WHAT YOU JUST POSTED IS A TOTAL LIE!

    Please don’t post here anymore until you can come up with LEGITIMATE FACTS.

    END.

  221. Surf Bandits says:

    Where do some of you people get your information from, a box of CrackerJack?
    —————————

    It’s widely known that psigate was a fraud perpetrated by the league office.

    The investigation was a fraud, as Wells himself admitted when he revealed that Jeff Pash, legal counsel for the NFL, fabricated the whole “Wells” Report.

  222. luckyforus says:
    Aug 19, 2016 9:41 PM

    And that is the thing about science, it doesn’t care if you believe it or not, it marches right on being true, regardless. If you stop believing in gravity, it doesn’t mean you fly off the earth. So count yourself lucky, lucky.

    ==========================

    It’s only true if you have the right inputs.

    ==========================

    By science, I mean the earthly laws of nature, and yes they are always true. I think your saying that bad measurements can occur and bad conclusions can be drawn because of human error, but not sure how that helps your argument.

  223. limakey says:
    Aug 21, 2016 8:24 PM

    Tom, I disagree with you. First, as regards to the concussion issues, I have not read enough on it. In regards to deflategate, I believe the league did step up and Comissioner Goodell did his job. This was not about power, this was doing his job where prior commissioners turned a blind eye. Yes, the NFL could have taken the easy way out and just not had an independant investigation and said, Tom said he didn’t do it and we believe him, so this matter is closed. However, Congress never would have gone for that. He also could have totally shut down the investigation based on human recollection. He also could have said that the balls were deflated beyond legal limits but there are too many variables to make a conclusion to any degree of scientific certainity, totally ignoring the texts and the total lack of cander of the three main players in this. He also could have ignored the lack of cooperation. He didn’t. Prior commissiones would have given a free pass to Tom Brady and the Pats. Pats already go their free pass with Spygate.

    —————

    You can’t call Wells independent with a straight face. He allowed the NFL to edit his report, he hired a science firm notorious for giving exactly the results the customer wants, and a another Wells firm attorney, Lorin Reisner, represented the NFL at the appeal. That is the exact opposite of independent.
    And it was, according to the last ruling, completely within Goodell’s power, so yes it was solely about him asserting and protecting his power. He needed to win against Brady so a precedent could be set and players would stop dragging the league to court. No one cared about PSI before, and, based on the NFL’s continued apathy about recording and releasing the PSI “spot checks”, they still don’t care.

  224. limakey says:
    Aug 20, 2016 8:28 PM

    MMack, taping of coaches hand signals has always been forbidden.
    ———————————–

    Pure and utter BS from the master of BS.

    The depth that you will go to in your pathetic defense of the serial liar Roger Goodell is so deep, that the Mariana Trench said it couldn’t believe how deep it is.

  225. mmack66 says:
    Aug 22, 2016 11:35 AM

    limakey says:
    Aug 20, 2016 8:28 PM

    MMack, taping of coaches hand signals has always been forbidden.
    ———————————–

    Pure and utter BS from the master of BS.

    The depth that you will go to in your pathetic defense of the serial liar Roger Goodell is so deep, that the Mariana Trench said it couldn’t believe how deep it is.
    _________________________________

    I had to read limakey’s comment twice to make sure of what I was reading. Next he’ll say that baseball players don’t try to steal the catchers and coaches signals! It’s called “gamesmanship” and it’s done in high school, college, and pro sports.

  226. @limakey
    ” So they waged a war in the media about issues that had nothing to do with the matter at hand, were the footballs deflated after the ref inspected them.”

    ======

    Still no PSI logs, still no punishment for any other team so far with low PSI (Steelers) or tampering with footballs (Colts, Giants). Case closed, Goodell wanted to cement his authority an had zero interest in rule enforcement. Checkmate.

  227. Colts admitted to tampering with the Pats footballs, which is infinitely worse than a mere suspicion that “more probably than not” the Pats messed with their own footballs. And yet no punishment. Giants tamper with Steelers footballs in 2016, no punishment. Steelers caught with low PSI in 2016, no punishment. PSI logs and promises of “transparency”, kept locked away from the public. This one stinks more and more as time goes on. Goodell has no credibility. Not disputable.

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