Cam Newton takes high road, teammates upset about uncalled head shots

AP

The last time Cam Newton lost to the Broncos, he pulled on a hoodie and moped and pouted his way through a brief press conference, and became an offseason-long topic of conversation.

So this time, he made it a point to get dressed and answer every question, even if both were done a bit oddly.

The unusual outfit was loud even by his standards, but his belief that the officials weren’t the problem with the multiple headshots he received during the game — particularly in  the second half — also stood out.

“It’s not my place to question the officials,” Newton said, via David Newton (no relation) of ESPN.com. “I really like the officiating crew. It wasn’t something I know they did intentionally, but it’s not fun getting hit in the head.

“We didn’t lose the game off that. I know that for a fact.”

Maybe not, but he was clearly a lesser player in the second half after taking a number of shots which will likely result in fines.

That happened at least four times in the second half, with Brandon Marshall launching himself and safety Darian Stewart earholing him in the fourth quarter — that was at least penalized, but nullified by an intentional grounding.

But if Newton wasn’t going to complain, he had people in his corner who were willing to.

“Do you see them calling it?” Panthers linebacker Thomas Davis said. “Early in the game, a guy took two, three steps and hit him in the head and they didn’t call a penalty.

“We’ve talked about it ad nauseam. It doesn’t matter. They ain’t going to change it.”

“I know he’s the biggest guy on the field, but he’s still the quarterback,” tight end Greg Olsen said. “We’ll see what some of those [helmet-to-helmet hits] look like. Obviously, we got one of them, but we didn’t get many yards off of it.”

The last one they got set up a potential game-winning field goal, which Graham Gano missed.

But that should only add to the pain on a night when the reigning MVP took far too many hits to the head (one is supposed to be too many, right NFL?)

125 responses to “Cam Newton takes high road, teammates upset about uncalled head shots

  1. Dirty Denver. Nothing changes year-to-year. All that was missing was Talib poking someone else in the eye.

    What the League needs to do is start penalizing the officiating crews who miss those obvious shots to the head (same fine the player gets for doing it).

    It’s hard enough to win a football game let alone one with the additional players on the field wearing black and white. It was one of the poorest officiated games I’ve seen in a while – and I’m a RAIDERS fan!

  2. The unanswered question is why does the NFL’s concussion protocol not apply to Cam Newton? After two of the hits he was clearly woozy.

    Then again, when you’re getting beat by a guy who had never thrown an NFL pass you gotta keep the MVP on the field, no matter the cost to his health.

  3. Seems the Broncos kept their heads low when tackling. If the league wants to clamp down more on hits to the head, they might have to use the replay system they dread so much. Seems like the officials didn’t see these hits.

  4. Cam Newton is lucky to still be playing this year after those illegal hits. It seems that the upside to beating up the opposing quarterback far outweighs the penalties (if they are even called). This game sets a bad precedent.

  5. we will now find out for certain if this league has integrity based on fines or no fines.

    it’s bad enough the near side ref tried to fix the game by placing the ball far ahead of where the runner was down in the goal line stand.

  6. The Broncos picked up where they left off in February and #KEPTPOUNDING on Cam Newton. He was pouting all night, I loved it!

  7. I’m impressed by his intentional efforts to be more mature in his responses.
    I’m not impressed by the refs letting him get smacked around just because he runs.
    Either protect the QBs or don’t, but be consistent with ALL of them. It’s only right.

  8. I don’t like the Panthers but it was clear as “Bounty Gate” a NFL teams defense was out to Injure a MVP QB.

    Low class from Kubiak & the Horses, but thats pretty much what I expect from that Team & Organization.

  9. Cam and Big Ben rarely get any roughing calls. Is it because their bigger and shake off so many tackles? I know Brady would of got all those calls.

  10. They should be angry, although it was not the reason they lost.

    Out of at least 4 clearly illegal (by rule) shots – 3 helmet-to-helmets and a club to the head – only 1 was called, but it was offset by intentional grounding. For such a point of emphasis, it’s odd not to see more flags. Expect multiple fines.

    Worth noting that Derek Wolfe got pulled down hard by the face mask, which may also draw a fine.

  11. The was at least one head shot that called for not just a fine but a suspension as well. As far as the team being upset after the game? Well you had a chance to do something DURING the game. Without Newton the Panthers would be lucky to win three games.

  12. AFC guy and no fan of Cam’s act but the dirty hits were irritating to watch go unpunished. Lost some respect for that Broncos team but it’s the officials that failed there. If a team isn’t getting punished for taking shots they are going to keep right on doing it.

  13. the announce team ragged on Carolina for taking the last time out when they did but it was obvious Cam was physically at his limit and needed a break before a key play. He stayed on his knee a few extra seconds after they broke the huddle & then took the TO. The last hit was brutal.

  14. Yeah there were some shots that should have been called. But it’s always going to be difficult to officiate a guy like him because one play he’s looking for contact and running people over like a fullback and the next play he’s looking to be protected. It’s hard for officials as well as defenders because as soon as they letc up, he’ll run one of then over or stiffy arm them to the ground. It’s unfortunate but there will be games where the officials make an effort to make the calls and games where they don’t.

  15. In offsetting penalties, IMO, Personal Fouls should trump any other penalty. There should be NO WAY at all that a personal foul can occur and it not be enforced. It shouldn’t matter. If I’m about to get slammed in the head, I am going to get rid of the ball and then its grounding and the opposing team benefits from an illegal hit. That is BS. Personal fouls should always be enforced regardless of what other fouls occurred. If I had my way, if they were offsides and had a personal foul on the same team, it would be 20 yards. The Personal Foul should be added on any other penalties a team commits.

  16. Definitely some egregious hits on Cam and Kelvin Ben’s knee, but we lost because our coaching staff called an overly conservative game and gave a young QB confidence by not throwing off his timing.

    Not the BCS system, so one loss is not the end of the world.

  17. The one that was flagged was earned, but I am not seeing all these “head shots” on the other plays, so if someone can let me know where they are PLEASE tell me, I watched the game and highlights. The only other time I see a possibility is when Miller and Ware met at the QB and Newton starting to fall forward into the other defender may have been helmet to helmet.

    Otherwords I see the “read option” PA pass out of the shot gun, with IMMEDIATE pressure took a hard but I believe completely legal hit, and a few others where he is getting rid of the ball at the last second, resulting in those HARD Physical football plays.

    I wouldn’t want to see my favorite QB take those kind of hits, but they aren’t late. They weren’t slapping the QB in the head, so I would need to direct my anger towards the Oline and not the officials.

  18. The Donkeys were caught several times trying to cheat with too many men on the field, and the referees just let them headhunt at will. What an embarrassing team.

    Gregg Williams was watching that game last night and was heard to say “Damn, those Donkeys have some dirty players.”

  19. I saw at least 5 times he was hit in the head and it was only called once, if Tom Brady was getting hit in the head like that it would have drawn more flags, imo.

    Overall I thought the officiating was bad, too many missed and blown calls. Chris Harris’s int looked like a trapped ball, the spot on Emmanuel Sander’s catch that was over turned, the missed calls on the head shots to Cam.

    I think it past time the NFL gets full time officials, they have the resources to make it happen.

  20. Cam will be fine without a head. It’ll cut down on the trash talk, and he’ll still have his arms and legs to make plays with.

  21. Maybe he can borrow Toms skirt for a few weeks. The officials don’t let things like that happen to the prima donna quarterbacks.

  22. I’m no fan and Cam Newton is easy to hate, but as I was watching that game I was shocked that some of those hits didn’t draw flags. If those hits were on Brady, there would be ejections.

  23. i watched the game and the shots you describe didn’t look as apparent or eggregious as your narrative indicates. the hit to the head by von miller on the sack was result of cam’s head dropping when sacked from the other side. looked like nothing could have avoided that one.

    agree that most qbs play deteriorate when they have been hit and pressured as denver did to carolina in the second half….

  24. I watched the game, and the head shots to Super-boy were not at all intentional. He is 6’5″ and kind of ducks right into the oncoming traffic, that’s what happens when you try to run the ball like a halfback. Keep up that kind of running Mr. Newton, and you won’t be Superman for long, you will be down and out with early retirement! If you haven’t learned from the likes of past running quarterbacks, then you will pay the price!

  25. Some of those shots were after he ducked/tucked into the tackler, so those are going to happen, especially with a running QB.

    I’m more curious he wasn’t pulled after the last one to be checked for a concussion. He laid on the ground, unmoving, for several seconds… where’s the spotter? The ref stood right there looking at him after the shot… where’s his judgement?

    Marshall was checked earlier and he was on a knee instantly after the hit…

    Gotta love the double standards…

  26. If Brady had taken even one of those shots, the league would have stopped the game and forfeited it over to the Patriots.

    The league protects the hierarchy of the perceived “face of the league” players.

  27. If Brady, Rodgers, Luck had taken those shots, refs would have taken care of it right on the field.

    League only cares about it’s “face of the league” players.

  28. Bronco players are and have been dirty for the longest time, you expect this to change??? Shots to the knees and head are to be expected when you play them, as are the no calls.

  29. Referees need to be fined and suspended just like players for missed calls like this. If it’s ok for the players, why not them? There is supposed to be a revue board for referees, but apparantly they overlook mistakes by their buddies. It’s ruining the game, a lot more than reefer does.

  30. Broncos won fair and square but how did they not call so many shots to the head. Brandon Marshal launched himself directly to a head shot and still nothing. Good win for you guys but not you are a cheap shot defense.

  31. Now if that was Burfict …. The refs, media, announcers, league would have slammed him as dirty etc. But they’ll spin as tough play by the champs “top rated D”. Lames. League bias towards certain teams and players hurts the shield.

  32. Whine, whine, whine…… Play better. I could care less who won that game and I’m certainly not a Panthers fan but they got physically beaten up.

  33. I’ve never been a huge Cam Newton fan, however, I saw three head shots on him that weren’t called. So much for the NFL being concerned with Safety.

  34. Sounds like Carolina players need to take some ownership in what their TEAM didn’t do, not the refs. This loss is on them and they are looking for any excuse to blame others.

  35. NFL should be ashamed. All the talk about making the game safer and they allow these hits to take place. I realize that Cam runs a lot, but those were direct helmet to helmet hits. Bronco defensive players are disgraceful and dirty! They couldn’t stand the fact that Cam can hurt them with his legs so they try to injure him.

  36. Wow somebody is dissappointed Cam and his Panthers lost. If they have that many designed runs for him it’s going to be a long sore year for cam newton. I understand he’s a big guy but one person can only take so much. Panthers offensive staff should wisen up and change the gameplan a bit to protect him.

    This is the NFL, and I know it’s on its way out, but hitting does still exist.

  37. The broncs also had a very iffy head slap go against them near the end thereby handing the Panthers another 4 downs.

    Bottom line is the refs get most calls right and are rarely responsible for the outcome.

  38. I’m not a big Cam fan but there was something peculiar about Cam being sandbagged and drilled in the head, resulting in a roughing penalty, but also flagged for a grounding penalty when it was obvious the roughing penalty prevented Cam from getting his attempted pass pass the line of scrimmage…?

    So there’s no defensive penalty that supersedes a grounding penalty, even if that illegal defensive shot resulted in the grounding penalty.

  39. what a cry baby… there was the one hit by Barrett that should not of been called that was in that last drive. it usually balances out, but after every hit Scam newton looks up appealing to the ref for a flag. what a freakin baby. this guy is the ultimate hustler. the good soldier. smiling and dancing when things are going good but look what happens when he faces adversity (super bowl- leaves press conf early). I saw it back at Florida during a high school coaches clinic. When he was riding pine behind Tebow during those spring practices, coaches were allowed to walk the practice field, Newton had the same sour puss face out of embarrassment that he was merely a back up. in the words of Bob Marley: ‘you can fool some people some time… but you can’t fool all the people all the time’. Scam Newton

  40. Uncalled illegal shots for sure. He didn’t get the ball to the line of scrimmage because the Broncos player was spearing head on. Penalties houldn’t have been offsetting.

    Enjoy it now donkeys, you will get plenty of L’s coming after week 1.

  41. donkeys were getting their asses handed to them – and then they went dirty
    was it called? hell no!
    the WWNFL let them get away, once again, with dirty hits.
    on top of that, the refs did everything they could to help the donkeys with other penalties.
    what an absolute chit show this nfl has become. when ghetto trash like von PED miller is awarded for playing dirty, just like last year, the game loses.

    f the donkeys. i really hope the next team they play uses the exact same tactics they use – and they take those dirty players out with a few dirty hits back in their direction.
    its well deserved at this point.

  42. Rules are rules
    NFL needs to police their own game like the NHL
    Quid pro Quo
    You hit my QB high. I hit your QB high

  43. The real unanswered question is why didn’t the Panthers invoke the concussion protocol?…also why are you implying the NFL is to blame for the Panthers’ lack of responsibility? Maybe when we can focus on the real problem, it can be solved.

  44. Holy cow people, it’s football. It’s a violent game. I’m not trying to sound like a tough guy but these hard shots are going to happen. Can we please stop the belly aching about how we must always protect the QB???? Geez.

  45. Wow, can’t believe the hate for Cam Newton. Any other QB, except maybe Big Ben, would have gotten those calls. I know football is a violent sport and hits are part of the game, but come on…blatant shots to the head that are allowed while the league talks how important they take player safety? What a joke.
    Seems like the NFL has adopted the Hack-A-Shaq approach to Newton. #SLAM-A-CAM

  46. So when 54 launched himself into newton’s face, how is that not a flag? Only Denver fans think this is OK. If the league is serious about *integrity* there must be fines or this game isn’t worth watching any more that wrestling.

  47. TedHurtz says:
    Sep 9, 2016 9:12 AM
    donkeys were getting their asses handed to them – and then they went dirty
    was it called? hell no!
    the WWNFL let them get away, once again, with dirty hits.
    on top of that, the refs did everything they could to help the donkeys with other penalties.
    what an absolute chit show this nfl has become. when ghetto trash like von PED miller is awarded for playing dirty, just like last year, the game loses.

    f the donkeys. i really hope the next team they play uses the exact same tactics they use – and they take those dirty players out with a few dirty hits back in their direction.
    its well deserved at this point

    Problem is those other teams aren’t under the protection of the refs.

    Don’t get me wrong, I can’t see cam lose enough, but not like last night. That was the most blatant display of favoritism in a long time.

  48. Wow. Can you at least try to write an objective piece. Yes, there were a couple of questionable shots. But he also did quite a bit more taunting that his lineman that drew a foul for it in the first quarter. It all evens out.

  49. Not a “fan” of either team. I thought Cam looked fine after getting hit like he did. I also thought that the refs did a good job of calling the game, including the hits on Cam.

  50. eagleslayer says:
    Sep 9, 2016 7:25 AM

    Most hated sports figure in the country….
    *********************
    Because allegedly being generally aware of a minor equipment infraction is WAY worse than beating women & children (RAY Rice & AP).

  51. Panthers offensive line played poorly. Cam’s going to have a long year if they don’t play better.

  52. I see the very same thing happen to Jay Cutler every week only he does not dance and run his mouth asking for the treatment by showing up the other team.

  53. Chris Culliver barely touches Greg Olsen with his forearm to the head, on a pick -six touchdown, last season.

    Personal Foul, Unneccessary roughness against Culliver, no interception, no touch down.

    No sympathy for Cam from Skins Nation.

    We watched RG3 get destroyed on horse collars, low blows and head shots, never got the calls, either.

  54. If you ask me Cam fits in the Vick precedent of where if you run around outside the pocket and hold the ball until someone is going to hit you, you won’t get the call for someone hitting you

  55. If you’re going to protect the QB then protect them all, not just the little frail ones, but the big ones too. That was disgusting how Marshall launched into Cam helmet well after he threw the ball….They were targeting him and the refs didn’t put a stop to it, they called one late in the game but it was offsetting…..all game they were not pulling up after he threw the ball, no warning or flag…..lets see who gets fined and the refs better get reprimanded

  56. alcondragonblog says:
    I watched the game, and the head shots to Super-boy were not at all intentional. He is 6’5″ and kind of ducks right into the oncoming traffic, that’s what happens when you try to run the ball like a halfback. Keep up that kind of running Mr. Newton
    —-

    Either you haven’t seen the specific hits, or you’re the biggest Broncos homer around… Cam did not “duck into” any of the 4 clear head shots (3 helmets, 1 arm) he took on the night. The only one that was even possibly incidental was Miller’s. Nor was he rushing the ball when he was hit.

    You can dislike the QB protection rules all you want, but several hits were clearly not legal. Forthcoming fines will illustrate that.

  57. It’s interesting that Cam Newton passed Steve Young for the most rushing TDs by a QB last night. If I remember correctly, Young had to retire early due to too many concussions. Coincidence? I think not.

  58. The real question is did he get all of the orange pieces flossed out while on the bench? America wants to know!!

  59. Put on your big boy pants Cam and get on with it. Its football for pity sake.

    You complainers are going to make this a powder puff league.

    You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.

  60. shaggytoodle says:
    Sep 9, 2016 7:47 AM
    The one that was flagged was earned, but I am not seeing all these “head shots” on the other plays, so if someone can let me know where they are PLEASE tell me, I watched the game and highlights. The only other time I see a possibility is when Miller and Ware met at the QB and Newton starting to fall forward into the other defender may have been helmet to helmet.

    Otherwords I see the “read option” PA pass out of the shot gun, with IMMEDIATE pressure took a hard but I believe completely legal hit, and a few others where he is getting rid of the ball at the last second, resulting in those HARD Physical football plays.

    I wouldn’t want to see my favorite QB take those kind of hits, but they aren’t late. They weren’t slapping the QB in the head, so I would need to direct my anger towards the Oline and not the officials.
    ————————————
    I just googled “denver head shots cam” and got multiple articles including gifs, vines and video clips of each one. Either you are unwilling to use google, can’t read or can’t see because you’re the only one who doesn’t see each example clearly defined and backed up by video evidence.
    fyi, i’m not a panthers fan

  61. You lost the game because:
    1. Your coaches got out coached again and did not spell players in a high altitude environment
    2. You lost the game because Denver learned on play three that you guys cant tackle
    3. You lost the game because you started two rookie corners who arent very good. Other teams will love this game film.
    4. You lost the game because your calling running plays with 1:46 seconds left and your at the 30? Really? Really?
    5. You lost the game because teams know how selfish Cam is about ball hogging and just focused on stopping him.
    6. You lost the game because your kicker was saying he could kick a 60 yarder in Denver due to the air. Someone should have pointed out that distance and accuracy both have to come into play.
    7. Last, your pass rush is non existant. A rookie QB makes you guys look like a third rate team all nigth. Hey maybe the first string should have played more in the pre season.

  62. Sep 9, 2016 9:11 AM
    FACT: Denver was head hunting and were allowed to do so.

    Not a fan of either team, this is unbiased.

    I also think they were trying to kit him low in the back of the knees to take his acl out. One denver guy on the ground close to cam was trying to come up behind him and hit him in the back of the knees and a pather almost head slapped in as in, oh no you dont. The play was already over by then.
    On antoher play where he did get hurt, one denver guy pushed him back while another was on the ground behind his legs as in they were trying to hurt his legs.

  63. The ONLY fan that believes the Denver defense played clean is a Denver fan. Pretty obvious Denver D played dirty. Made Roger proud I bet.
    Just remember though , what goes around comes around. Pretty sure other teams will take note of Denver ‘s dirty play.
    Just saying.

  64. Wah…Wah…Wah…Wah…Denver’s dirty…they were mean to us…Wah…Wah…Wah…the refs cheated for Denver…Wah…Wah…Wah…the NFL cheats for Denver to win…Wah…Wah…Wah…we would have beat them if…if…if…Wah!

  65. Of course if it was Brady, Rodgers or Brees there would have been calls. And that’s because they don’t run people over every other play. It’s hard to officiate a guy like Cam. And what the heck are defenders supposed to do? They can’t treat him like Brady and try to arm tackle him because he’ll make them look silly. With Cam, they have to assume he’s going to run and treat him accordingly. It’s the blessing and curse of his game. QBs that are run threats never get the same calls as those that are strictly pocket passers. But it’s interesting that a guy likie Russell Wilson almost always manages to never take big hits with as much as he can run around in the backfield. Cam has to be smart and throw the ball away quicker to make the penalty obvious as well as getting down. He’s a big guys and defenses will hit him accordingly.

  66. Quite a few stories on this topic, yet not one about the Panthers’ o-line cheap-shotting the Broncos D. When is that one coming out?

  67. haughville says:
    Sep 9, 2016 11:00 AM

    Denver’s dirty….
    ——————-

    Water is wet…
    The sky is blue…

    That’s the Donkey way.

  68. “Cam lowered his body to protect himself which caused the headshot”

    I’m a Packers fan, not a Broncos fan. Sorry, I thought the defenses just played physical on both sides. On the two I remember, Newton was was going down, saw the defender coming and lowered his head. The defender wouldn’t have hit him in the helmet if he didn’t lower his head at the last moment. It didn’t look at all dirty to me. I don’t think those should’ve even been called as penalties.

  69. “Cam Newton takes the high road.”

    That’s something we never thought we’d hear!

    “The last time Cam Newton lost to the Broncos, he pulled on a hoodie and moped and pouted his way through a brief press conference, and became an offseason-long topic of conversation.” Yet, during the Tirico interview last night, he didn’t see anything wrong with what he did.

    High road? I doubt it.

  70. So, if you can’ t win by playing by the rules Denver just proved you can win by cheating the rules. But what else would you expect by a team that has a player who caused the drug testing protocol to be rewritten because they cheated during a urine test.
    NO CLASSS!!!!!

  71. I’m a Raiders fan.

    People call Brady a cheater because he may have known that someone may have taken a little pressure out of a ball. Denver has its stadium somewhere that atmospheric pressure favors the team that trains there over every team in the league and no one blinks an eye. Year in and year out. On top of it, Denver cheats the salary cap, has offensive lineman that target knees, and defenders that target heads.

    Also, anyone who says the league doesn’t treat Cam Newton as a premier QB must have missed the Cam for MVP publicity tour the league provided last year. He gets hit more because he runs. Hits to the head should be called if he is in the pocket, other than that he’s fair game. The refs missed a couple last night, but Carolina was still in a position to win.

  72. Darn, Denver is freaking good. I’ll be rooting against them all season long.

    Can’t believe they won on the tacky “ice the kicker” strategy.

  73. Cam and Big Ben rarely get any roughing calls. Is it because their bigger and shake off so many tackles? I know Brady would of got all those calls.
    ________________
    Good point. I seem the same thing with Gronkowski–he rarely gets pass interference calls in his favor but is constantly manhandled.

  74. The Stewart hit was illegal and was called (look for a $25K fine), but Cam did get caught intentionally grounding.

    Miller/Ware sack was in no way intentional and I doubt a fine will be given. A good no call.

    The “clubbing” was not a foul, the defenders arm went over the top of the helmet in a non-violent tackling motion.

    The various hits on rollouts were not late as they were within the one-step rule. Cam is notorious for whining about them every week.

    Carolina needs to recognize that Cam’s body will start breaking down if they continue to use him as a power back. Time to limit his physical contact.

  75. Took the high road??
    Cam never takes the high road

    He flipped around & whined begging for calls in the first half
    Purposely bumped into a Denver defender who was trying to pump up the home crowd

    He celebrates & acts a fool when he’s scoring & winning
    But behaves like a petulant whining child when he loses!

    Biggest 2-faced jerk in the NFL

  76. ecbutler says:
    Sep 9, 2016 9:59 AM

    Embarrassing game for the broncos and nfl.

    I agree 100%. WWE refs have more integrity than the NFL refs working last night’s game. The ref who gave the Broncos a half a yard or more so they’d make the first down was brutal. Says a lot that a team would have to challenge. Learned something, a QB can be skulled but if the ball doesn’t reach the los it’s offsetting penalties. I’ll worry about the stats and not the games from now on. What a farce.

  77. In my eyes there has never been a more polarizing figure in pro football than Cam Newton. It’s such a love/hate relationship that I continue to grapple with. For all of the good will he brings, his childish antics and excessive celebration have negated that. His behavior at the press conference of the Super Bowl was his lowest moment imo.

    Last night, this man did a complete 180 from February at his presser. Total class, took the high road when any fan (including Broncos fans) could see he was getting continuous late shots from the defense. He did whine a little on a few but he kept playing. He also didn’t play his finest game last night but it was a balls out gutsy performance to say the least. It felt a lot like Rocky IV when the Soviet fans started chanting for Rocky as the fight went on.

    I really was pulling for Denver early but as the game went on Cam kept coming back keeping his team in the game and coming back from the borderline cheapshots. He did everything he could to get them the win. It’s sad it didn’t happen because the Panthers played a heck of a game, so did Denver.

    I guess what I’m trying to say is that what I saw in his presser last night really took me by surprise. This is the demeanor and attitude this guy needs to adopt from here on out. I can’t believe it but he has managed to pull me back over to his side.

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