Tony Dungy on stealing signals: It’s been done legally for years

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Former Colts coach Tony Dungy says he’s baffled that Deion Sanders would suggest the Colts were doing something wrong by stealing signals during Dungy’s tenure as coach and Peyton Manning’s tenure as quarterback, because Dungy says all 32 teams steal each other’s signals.

Dungy said this morning on PFT Live that stealing signals is a legal and smart tactic in the NFL, and Sanders is wrong to conflate it with Spygate, in which the Patriots broke NFL rules by videotaping opposing teams’ signals from the sideline.

In a long explanation of the history of signal stealing, Dungy said it happens all the time and has for most of NFL history.

“I think we have to go back to what is cheating,” Dungy said. “People accusing us of cheating? I don’t think that’s the case. Stealing signals? You can go back to the 1800s in baseball, you can go anywhere there were signals done, and people were looking and watching and trying to get signals. Back in the early days of football the quarterbacks called the plays and the middle linebackers called the defenses and there was no signaling. When coaches decided they wanted to call plays you had to find ways to get the information in and there were people watching. My coach, Chuck Noll, was a messenger guard for Paul Brown in the ’50s because Paul Brown didn’t want to have to signal because people are going to watch them. So that’s what happens and it’s been done legally for years.

“I remember in 1991, I was an assistant coach for the Kansas City Chiefs. Steve DeBerg was our quarterback. He had played seven or eight years earlier for the 49ers. We were playing the 49ers and they hadn’t changed their signals at all. Steve DeBerg called every play for us on the defensive sideline because Joe Montana and Bill Walsh hadn’t changed the signals since they’d been there. They beat us 28-14. We knew every play and they beat us. So that’s been part of football.

“Deion, I’m sure on every scouting report that he ever got, the first thing that’s on there on the defensive scouting reports, who is the live signal caller, who signals the personnel groups in. And that’s what happened. And you looked over there because you wanted to know as a defensive player: Is it going to be three wide receivers? Is it going to be two tight ends? Who’s in the game? There’s a person over there signaling and Deion Sanders and every other defensive player would look at the offensive sideline to get that signal. So that is football. And I’m not sure what Deion is referring to, really.”

Dungy pointed out that the NFL now allows the quarterback and a defensive player to wear a headset in their helmets to hear from the coaches, which has changed — but not eliminated — signal stealing.

“That’s why you see these college teams now with four and five people signaling, with the posters and the pictures and all these different things because they don’t want people to have their signals. In the NFL, they’ve gotten away from that with the coach to quarterback and coach to middle linebacker communication. But, yes, if you signal, there are going to be people who watch your signals and know what’s going to happen.

“When I was a defensive coordinator we went to wristbands because people steal signals. So you have a wristband that says No. 1 is this defense, No. 2 is this defense, you change it and everybody has done that for years and years and years. In our Super Bowl, we scored a touchdown to Reggie Wayne on a blown coverage because one of the Chicago players read the wristband wrong trying to get ahead of us. I’ll give you the opposite side of the coin. We’re playing the Pittsburgh Steelers. I’m the coach of the Indianapolis Colts on a Monday night. Peyton Manning came to me before the game and said, ‘Bruce Arians used to be with us, is now coaching there, I know he’s told them our hand signals. I’m going to get them because I’m going to give a fake run signal and I know they’re going to bite because Bruce has told them our signals.’ And on the first play of the game, he gave a signal to Marvin Harrison, Ike Taylor, Pittsburgh’s corner, thought it was a run play, and it was an 82-yard touchdown.

“That’s all part of the game, but doing it legally and illegally, that’s the difference. I hope Deion is not saying we did something illegally. Of course we got signals when we had an opportunity to do that, and so did Deion.”

What was different with Spygate is that teams had specifically been instructed not to videotape opposing teams’ signals on the sideline during the game, and the Patriots did it anyway.

“It wasn’t getting signals, it was the process of videotaping and using electronic equipment during the game,” Dungy said of the difference between the Patriots and other teams.

What’s still unclear is why Sanders chose to single out the Colts for blame when, as Dungy says, the Colts did the same thing as everyone else. We’d like to hear Sanders clarify that.

180 responses to “Tony Dungy on stealing signals: It’s been done legally for years

  1. Pats’ Spygate wasn’t that they videoed – it was camera placement for Q1 of Wk1 after rules were re-interpreted in 2007. The camera had to be 2yds farther back in the stands. This decision by Goofdell came months after Tagliabue’s late 2006 memo – this came before Tag’s decision that the Jets were ok sideline-videoing the Pats because the Jets had said they wouldn’t use the film DURING THAT game. Tag said that complied with the new memo too. But Goofdell in wk1 of 2007 said no, the info gleaned from the video can’t be used for ANY game thereafter and thus the 15mins of film was confiscated and the Pats crucified as spies in the crime of the century – Mangini later apologized/regretted his complaint.

  2. .
    The obvious questions to Dungy would have been, ” Have you at any time time taped other team’s signals? ” Then follow up with, ” Do you have knowledge of any other team that taped signals like the Patriots? ”
    .

  3. As I have argued for years. I am not a Patriots fan but I know that all
    teams played this game. Some teams taped the opposing coaches for
    their signals. I believe even the coach who blew all of this open, Eric
    Mangini, admiited the Jets, under his tenure, attempted to steal
    signals. Why do offensive coordinators cover their mouths when
    calling plays?
    As one player said ” shame on you ” if you didn’t change up your
    signals every game or especially for a playoff game.

  4. “What was different with Spygate is that teams had specifically been instructed not to videotape opposing teams’ signals on the sideline during the game, and the Patriots did it anyway.”

    ========

    So what you are saying is stealing signals is ok, but the Patriots stole them from the sideline, when they were supposed to steal them from the coaches booth? Ok. Got it. That’s pretty much vindication for Patriots fans that have been saying for 10 years that stealing signals is against the rules. Saint To t just told us that teams steal signals and stealing signals is part of football. There is a game within the game of showing fake signals and real signals and so on. The difference between the patriots stealing signals and everyone else stealing signals is….wait for it….the location of the signal stealer. Got tony. Thanks

  5. The Patriots where taping the signals from a non designated area. That’s why they got in trouble. The taping part wasn’t illegal you just had to do it from the area where every team knew, so that all teams where on the same level playing field….

  6. Technically the league sent a *memo* to 32 teams changing the rule around signal taping, except the rules cannot be changed by memo… unless you’re Roger Goodell and you can do whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want.

  7. I have a close friend that is a ham radio operator. He put a chip in one of his radios that will pick up any frequency, even the ones that are beyond the band width that is available for public use. If he could get his radio close enough (inside the stadium or near it) he could hear what is being said by the coaches.
    Would that be cheating?

  8. God so much wrong here.

    Filming is NOT illegal. Where the Patriots filmed from in 2007 was illegal. They filmed from the legal spot the next game and have since.

  9. Kinda weak, Tony. Have no problem with the signal thing, found it kind of sad that you still wanted to push the Pats off into a cheating category though to make yourselves look better.

    You know as well as anyone, the Pats filmed from the wrong location. Location. They were trying to steal signals just like you and everybody else as you say. Instead of being long-winded about it, all you had to say was “everybody did it. Because they did. The hell with the trolls who say “you can’t say that!” Because their trolls.

    Screw the Colts and Go PATS!!!

  10. wait a freakin’ minute here…..stealing signals is legal? Patriots videotaped from the wrong location?

    The internet would have 50% more available bandwidth if we had known this 10 years ago.

    ha….who would have known

  11. Me thinks he doth protest too much.

    At the least, it highlights the GREY area between what is cheating and what is not cheating.
    In a culture in which one is expected to gain every competitive advantage possible, the NFL overpunishes those caught doing what many/all NFL teams do in an attempt to feign integrity in a game that has very little. Of course, a lot of money rides on this false sense of integrity.

    *Not a Patriots fan, just being honest

  12. First of all, Tony Dungy is not worthy of inclusion in the Hall of Fame. Second, he is wrong when he says that the Patriots used videotaping and electronic equipment during the game. Those videos were only used in post game analysis to help Bill & Ernie decipher what the coaches signaled to the defense. It wasn’t even for stealing signals, since most good teams changed their signals every game. There simply isn’t enough time to decipher that information at halftime.

    They wanted to know what defense was called so that they could understand the play calling tendencies of the head coach and/or defensive coordinator. You can’t rely on game film because the defense can blow the coverage, or make an audible at the line, but what they wanted to know what the coach called initially in reaction to the down, distance, score, time and offensive formation.

    Tony Dungy’s (deliberate?) failure to understand this basic difference is indicative of either a lack of understanding of the level of preparation and scouting used by the New England coaching staff, or a personal bias against a team and coaching staff that he repeatedly failed to defeat in dozens of encounters in the regular season and postseason.

    (With the notable exception of the 2006 AFCCG in which his franchise cheated by turning up the heat in the dome knowing several Patriot players were suffering from the flu, and shutting off the cold water in the visitor’s locker room. That’s not to mention the piped in crowd noise which was never acknowledged, but became obvious when the CD they were using started skipping live on national television.)

  13. Just so I have this straight:

    Stealing coaches signals is NOT considered cheating
    Videotaping coaches signals from an authorized location is NOT considered cheating (as this was allowed in the rulebook).

    But videotaping coaches signals from an unauthorized location IS considered cheating (aka Spygate). And doing this from an unauthorized location (sideline) instead of an authorized location in the stadium resulted in the highest penalty in NFL history. And now 10 years later, fans and other teams are claiming the Patriots got off easy.

    When there are so many other league violations (PEDs, pumping in crowd noise, etc) why aren’t all teams considered cheaters?

  14. My own personal opinion about stealing signals
    VIA ANY MEANS YOU CAN THINK OF ?

    If you don’t change your signals regularly you deserve to have them stolen BY ANY MEANS
    IMAGINABLE.

    Amateurs.

  15. With regard to Spygate, video recording of the opposing team signals was legal but NOT from the location the Patriots were using.

  16. OK – I think I’ve got it:

    Stealing signals: A-OK, everyone dos it.

    Filming signals: A-OK, everyone does it.

    Using a videocamera to film those exact same signals from an unapproved location: Biggest deal ever in the history of the NFL.

  17. Not buying what Dungy is selling. We know other teams also videotaped signals. Heck, the Jets were caught red-handed, no big deal cause they lose…right. We know it was widespread. We know the NFL had to send out a memo to all 32 teams. We also know the other 31 teams were unable to stop the Patriots, except for that one Miami game when the Phins had every Pats signal and Jason Taylor sacked Brady almost every play. Yet nobody talks about all that.
    There was also that other game that led to the Colts superbowl win XLI against the Bears…the officiating in that AFC Championship game that got them to that Superbowl was about as questionable as anything I’ve ever seen. Polian at work no doubt. But Dungy’s lone ring has an asterisk as far as I’m concerned.
    Ladanian Tomlinson and Marshall Faulk need to fade away. Crybaby nation.

  18. Funny Dungy never commented on this for the past 15 years. I guess it didn’t fit his narrative or he didn’t want to make the Patriots look less evil.

  19. You need to bold the “on the sideline” part. It was and is legal to tape from enclosed locations. The NFL doesn’t care about this, but they just don’t want it out in the open.

    And frankly, what’s the difference between doing this and manually trying to decipher signals. If Tony were a purist, wouldn’t he just “line up and play”?

  20. Dion probably never paid attention to a scouting report because he was only going to play cat coverage and not tackle anyway, Furthermore by him calling “stealing signals” to attention is proof he didnt or hasn’t been paying attention to the hard work that coaches do to prepare teams to play.

  21. Well if its found they broke rules, they peytons image is tarnished like Tom’s. If all they did was look across the field then its not cheating. No rule says u cant look across the field. Thats why most coaches put the playbook over their face, so u cant see what they are saying. Its really that simple. But in no way shape or form is this even close to sneaking someone undercover into another teams practice to tape it lol, thats just ridiculous.

  22. At some point, it will hopefully become clear to the Goodell apologists, that the only thing the Patriots are guilty of, and have been unjustly punished for, is their excellence.

    Unfortunately, rather than be men, and strive to rise up to the level of the Patriots, the other owners try to hamstring the Patriots in order to bring them down to the pathetic level of everyone else.

    Thankfully, it hasn’t worked, and the Patriots keep on rolling, despite all of the made up claptrap that the league office throws at them.

  23. Yes the Pats taped for 1/2 game illegally. It was not the national crisis Goodell and his cronies made it out to be.

    The fact is you can get the exact same data having a lowly paid offensive assistant sitting on your sideline charting the time and defensive signal used on a given play. The only difference is it is a little easier to collate that data from video than paper, that’s it.

    There was no magical telepathic system that transmitted that data from the cam into Tom Brady’s head during the game.

  24. The word steal has a bad connotation.

    Every team, not just the Colts or the Pats, practice this. And yes, most teams taped the signals from a secure location permitted by the league to decipher the signals at a later time. All legal unless used during the game.

    The Pats from what I understand were not taping from the allowed sucure location but from the field to use at a later time. There was never any in game use of the video as it would take too long at half time to decipher which where the real signals and which where the dummy ones.

    This is why Spygate was so overblown. It was the first of many witch hunts by Godell and it certainly wasn’t the last.

  25. Well well well. So THAT’S why PEDton set all those records. Not hard to do when you know what the defense is going to do right Patriot Hater?

    Now let the Patriot Hater hee hawing begin.

    🙂

    #PEDtonExposed
    #Huh
    #IsntThatInteresting

  26. Another example of how ludicrous spy gate accusations were. They videotaped which wasn’t illegal from a spot that was….a simple mistake. Whether it was intentional we will never know but it was an error. They were punished but the gravity of the illegality was far over blown. Deflate gate was an even bigger joke. Now we have father Dungy saying all teams steal signals….I can’t even fathom the reaction had Belichick said the same thing. The double standards are incredible.

  27. Stealing signals has NEVER been against the rules. Even former players like Tomlinson don’t understand that.

    He’s still sore that his team choked away that playoff game against the Pats and made him cry. He was mad because they had the nerve to taunt the Chargers by using the dance that the Chargers used to taunt other teams.

    NE followed the rules EXACTLY as they were written during Spygate. What the Pats did wasn’t made illegal until the year after.

    I don’t care that the Colts stole signals. Not against the rules. What I am upset about is that the Colts pipe in phony crowd noise and were even caught on live TV when their loop began to skip. They purposely tanked an entire season to steal Luck during the infamous and blatantly obvious “Suck for Luck Campaign!” They even made up t-shirts! The Colts have been seen by several teams sporting inflation needles. They’ve long been suspected of tampering with footballs and even admitted that they tampered with the football that started the Deflategate hoax.

  28. @madhattter416 has it correct, Dungy has it slightly incorrect.

    It was not illegal to use technology to tape signals. It was the LOCATION which the Patriots filmed from. The guy filming had an orange vest on for god’s sake, there was no attempt to hide it.

    They never used the film in games, and that was the source of Belichick’s confusion. He explained that as long as they weren’t using the film during the game, he thought they were following the new rule.

    But because the Pats are so successful and owners like Irsay can’t accept that, a national story was conflated by the NFL and ESPN which feeds sad trolls to this day.

  29. Spygate was cheating because they videotaped from the sideline. If they had videotaped from any of the 65000 seats in the stadium, it would have been legal.

  30. WESTEAGLE07 says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:18 AM
    Non issue. Next

    ——————

    I would agree. But then it begets the question why the Colts and their fans are such crybabies about what other teams do if its such a non issue when they do it.

  31. 98% of the fans have a HD camera on their phones, so the idea of stealing something means it’s a rarity that’s been taken is lunacy. Anyone of the fans could randomly take videos of any part of the game depending on location, using it anyway they want including but not limited to deciphering signals.

  32. “because he was only going to play cat coverage and not tackle anyway, ”

    You don’t want someone with his skillset and body type trying to be Ronnie Lott – that would end up decreasing his value to the team. Yes – he very likely was doing it for personal reasons, but the team ultimately benefited. He would tackle when it was important. (See his open field tackle on Natrone Means int he 49ers-Chargers Super Bowl.)

  33. I believe Deion called out the Colts because by most accounts Howard Mudd is thought to be the guy who first started taping the signals. Mudd was a long time asst of Dungys and the Chiefs before that.

  34. All teams steal signs? I can only speak for my team, and that’s the Chargers. Trust me, Mike McCoy did not steal any signals. No way.

    Had the Chargers stole signs they would have won more than 3 games.

  35. This is why ratings are down. The NFL is sending the message that to succeed you need to cheat. So the Colts were stealing signals and everybody knew that, then teams like the Steelers, Ravens, and off course the Patriots said, meh, they are chokers, we will beat them in the playoffs, while all the other teams in the AFC South (who also knew) just remained silent and let the Colts cheat.

  36. “What was different with Spygate is that teams had specifically been instructed not to videotape opposing teams’ signals on the sideline during the game, and the Patriots did it anyway.

    “It wasn’t getting signals, it was the process of videotaping and using electronic equipment during the game,” Dungy said of the difference between the Patriots and other teams.”
    ————————————

    All of which is perfectly legal according to the NFL rulebook.

    The only thing you can’t do is use that information during the game.

  37. Videotaping signals has never been allowed. The Patriots were caught in Green Bay in 2006 prior to the memo and the video guy was kicked out. Yet Belichick still did it in 2007 after the memo.

    And nobody knows if it helped the Patriots since the tapes were destroyed. If another team was videotaping signals provide your source.

    The Patriots legacy is tainted.

  38. So is it OK to pump crowd noise? Everyone cheats. The Patriots got caught because some jealous competitions could not figure out how they can be so good. From my vantage point, it is pretty clear. Great owner, great coach ,great qb and a team first mentality. This coming from a JAGS fan too. I’m jealous..

  39. In baseball “Americas pastime” you can spend the rest of your life trying to decipher the signals to crack the code. Unless you know what the “indicator” is none of the signaling means a stinking thing. Even if you figure out what the indicator is, the indicator can be changed at any time.

    If you are not sure what I mean by “indicator” A coach flashes 15 signals. But only one of them is the real sign. And the real sign is the sign that directly follows the “indicator” So for example, lets say touching my nose is the indicator. Every sign I signal to you is fake until I touch my nose. Then the very next sign I give you is the real sign (Which will be followed by more random signals) But you can change your indicator (in baseball) between innings. “Listen up….the new indicator is touching my watch. The nose is out and the watch is in.”

    Decoding would be a tremendous amount of work. If you can decode and use it to your advantage and your opponent is too stupid or too lazy to change the indicator then I say go for it. The info would just as likely sink you as it would help you.

  40. It is amazing that a prominent former, professional coach would justify anything that he himself labels as STEALING!

    Last I checked stealing is wrong on any level and just because everyone else is doing it does not justify it. I worked with student athletes for development for many years trying to ensure that they compete fairly and ethically and now to read that so many people including a coach that I quite frankly admired made a statement like that, and publicly, is disturbing.

    You owe all of the student athletes coming up an apology Coach Dungy! Or perhaps you might want to call it something else to justify the actions that “everybody knows that everybody else is doing!!!! IJS!

  41. Here’s the layman’s version of Spygate,

    You live near a school zone. Monday ~Friday, speed limit 20 mph. You drive through on Saturday at 30 mph and get a ticket. The cop doesn’t want to hear that silly days of the week thing.

    The memo was written in English and it clearly prohibits filming from certain locations,

    now wait for this because it’s important and part of the written memo,

    FOR USE DURING THE GAME.

    There’s no proof nor even an allegation that what NE was taping was being used during the game. Bill went by the letter of the law, not the nebulous interpretations of the jealous . Roger, like the cop, didn’t care that is was Saturday.

    Why tapes were burnt is anyone’s guess. But that’s all it is, a guess.

    But we told all y’all that this stuff would eventually start to leak out. Now that there’s nothing left to torment NE with, and loyalties change with team jerseys, we are going to hear a lot about cheating on other teams.

    Enjoy!

  42. I hate to admit this, but I completely agree with Dungy and think Deion is way out of line here.

    Stealing signals is not against the rules

    Videotaping an opponent’s sideline is not against the rules

    Videotaping an opponent’s sideline from your own sideline and not the designated “three walled enclosure with roof” is a violation of the rules.

    This is the entire essence of “spygate”. When you see it boiled down to this, it looks really petty of the league to drop the hammer the way they did, particularly since the Patriots came clean and admitted it right off the bat.

    By contrast, take a look at the Broncos salary cap shenanigans – multiple violations that had a clear cut impact on the outcome of several NFL seasons that received only a slap on the wrist.

  43. So if teams arent allowed to use what is out there for everyone to see, can they try to decode audibles? after all that would be stealing words.

  44. deflectorsofthetruth says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:51 AM
    Videotaping signals has never been allowed.

    How many times must it be repeated before it sinks in?

    It is not illegal to tape signals. Where do you guys get your outdated information?

  45. Now we go from the Revenge Tour to the Hater Apology Tour, now that they all realize what a big bag of blank it all was. You know what? Apology not accepted. …. you and the horse you rode in on.

  46. Videotaping signals has never been allowed. The Patriots were caught in Green Bay in 2006 prior to the memo and the video guy was kicked out. Yet Belichick still did it in 2007 after the memo.

    Wrong

    It’s still legal today as long as it’s done from the designated area

    -All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.

    -Any doors entering the shooting locations within the public seating areas of the stadium are required to be lockable from both the inside and the outside of the location to prevent unwarranted access.

    -All locations must have climate control (heat and/or fans). Any heaters and/or fans must be completely operational and produce the effect that is required. Heaters that do not produce any heat should be replaced.

    -All locations must supply adequate power for each team (at least two outlets per team).

    -All locations must be installed with the required video printer lines from both the sideline and the end zone shooting locations to the coaches’ booth and field. It is not required that wiring be installed for the opposite end zone position, but if the opposite end zone is wired for the home team, it must also be wired for the visiting team. Home teams must provide visiting teams with the same situational set up for printers that they have themselves (i.e. cover, placement behind the bench, etc.)

    -It is suggested that each location provide either countertop space or tables for both teams in the booth and a table on the field and coaches’ booth.

  47. If teams are dumb enough to use obvious hand signals, verbal signals, signage and not change it up; that’s on them. That is not stealing, that is seeing what is obvious, and using it against another team. No different if a third base coach in baseball used the same sign for stealing every game, people would catch on and use that against them. HOWEVER, making videos is a whole different story.

  48. I agree with him. Everyone has known about and done this for decades — Google the 2008 NY Times article “In the NFL, it’s not cheating until you start videotaping.” Teams have employed lip readers, had defensive players wear hidden microphones, stolen or photographed playbooks, and recorded opponents with team equipment. Yet all of this was and is viewed as “gamesmanship” until the Patriots were “caught” taping opponents sidelines during games from a slightly different angle than the 50 other cameras in the stadium.

    Goodell’s stupidity and dishonesty in these matters is by now a matter of public record. What really makes me angry are all the former players that knew their teams did the same or much worse, who directly benefitted from that “gamesmanship” to the point they could get into the broadcast booth based on “great” careers, and then turned around and acted like they were saints while the Patriots had broken some great moral code. You are all liars.

  49. The Pats from what I understand were not taping from the allowed secure location but from the field to use at a later time. There was never any in game use of the video as it would take too long at half time to decipher which where the real signals and which where the dummy ones.
    ——–
    Agreed
    And as a fellow Pats fan I get so irritated when other Pats fans act like spygate was a simple misunderstanding. There was no misunderstanding. If you look at the schematics of all 32 NFL stadiums the designated are to record video from is (repeated for all 32 teams.) is on the home teams side of the stadium. That’s not by accident. The only signals the away team can legally record is their own visiting team that is facing the designated legal video recording booth. You only get the backsides of the coaches for the home team. So that’s when BB would send someone to the other sideline for a better view.

    I love the Pats and I love BB. But that’s spygate in a nutshell. It was what it was and that now lives in the past. It would still need hours, weeks months of decoding. And it could certainly backfire (Like Dungys example use in the article) It’s not as simple as fans want to make it out to be. Recording signals isn’t the same as looking at your opponents play calls in Madden. I’d even be totally fine if the NFL wanted to make it legal to record/ decipher and use all you want. You’d just as likely get burned as you would gain an advantage.

  50. deflectorsofthetruth says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:51 AM
    Videotaping signals has never been allowed. The Patriots were caught in Green Bay in 2006 prior to the memo and the video guy was kicked out. Yet Belichick still did it in 2007 after the memo.

    And nobody knows if it helped the Patriots since the tapes were destroyed. If another team was videotaping signals provide your source.

    The Patriots legacy is tainted.

    ———
    Actually videotaping signals was legal and remains legal. It is only illegal when done from specific positions in the stadium.

  51. wow. the colts really cheat? suck for luck, pumping in noise, injury gate and now this? banish them.

  52. Pumping Noise into stadium, Irsay caught with drugs, driving DUI, Irsay mistress found dead from overdose in his house, purposely tanking an entire season, QB sent to Guyer Institute to acquire steroids, stealing opposing teams signals. No wonder they think other teams are cheating!

  53. Trying to “steal” signals has never been illegal and every team has always done it. Of course its not cheating, its part of the game.

    Videotaping other teams has never been illegal and every team has always done it. Of course its not cheating, its part of the game.

    Videotaping from the location the pats did it wasn’t illegal prior to 2007. Before the 2007 season the league voted to prohibit videotaping in a certain location and the pats got caught breaking that rule the first game of that season against the jets. Any penalty they were given was only and specifically for that one incident.

    Its no mystery why Dungy and many others like him never talked about this, it wasn’t in their interest to explain why “Spygate” wasn’t really that big a deal to the public.

    Its no mystery that Deon or Tomlinson don’t understand the issue, even great players typically understand less about how teams operate than even casual fans, they were players, not coaches.

    The only interesting thing to knowledgeable fans like myself is why Deon is going after Dungy about this. This should be fun as it plays out.

  54. Dungy explained it well. You make the signals out in the open for everyone to see. If you make the signals easy enough to decipher, and don’t change them up, then the other team will notice a pattern, and use that.

    I hear the same complaints in MLB at times, about some teams “stealing signs”. Hey, you stand out in front of thousands of people and give signals. Are the players on the other team supposed to look the other way, so you can give your signs?

    Put the speakers in every players helmet, like you do for the QB or one defensive player. Let the coach call the play, and shut off the mike at a certain point in the time clock. No more need for signals. Is it honestly a cost issue that they don’t want to pay for that many radio receivers? With current technology, it seems like a simple fix.

  55. “And nobody knows if it helped the Patriots since the tapes were destroyed. If another team was videotaping signals provide your source.”

    Actually the tapes were show to the media at the press conference announcing the punishment, and Jay Glazer reputedly still has a copy of at least one of them.

    All they showed was the cam pointing at the clock to note the time, and then to the other sideline.

    As to other teams taping, HOF coach Jimmy Johnson openly admitted doing it and then later stopping the practice because he felt it didn’t help more than a simple charting of the signals on paper. Other coaches have admitted doing so.

    This is data visible to every single person in the stadium. Stop pretending like it was some sort of super secret thing that nobody ever saw except the team sending the signals in.

  56. Where were all you coaches/cowards during Spygate? Jimmy Johnson was the only one that said a thing about their team filming and stealing signals at that time.

  57. When it all started I remember Rex Ryan, then Ravens defensive coordinator saying “This will put about 18 or 19 teams on alert”

  58. Even in high school and college my coaches tried to interpret and use the signals from the opposing teams.

  59. This guy is a professional hypocrite. If he were white, he wouldn’t be this holier-than-thou-hall-of-fame coach. There are plenty more innovative and influential coaches that have been way more successful.
    He is just another example of the NFL pushing their affirmative action down our throats (see Troy Vincent and his entire staff).

  60. So, in other words this all the ‘Gates’ really boil down to the people who lose to the Patriots being sore losers. That’s it. Whole entire careers have been made off of a manufactured controversy, or two.

    Thank you Deion Sanders for calling him out on this.

  61. “We wanted to take and destroy that information,” he said. “They may have collected it within the rules, but we couldn’t determine that. So we felt that it should be destroyed.”

    most of the tapes were made “within the rules” since it was only in 2 stadiums(the Old Giants Stadium and Lambeau, coincidentally the 2 places they got “caught” that the home team is under the press box so you cant see the coaches from the legal filming spot.

    but what Goodell said above proves that the taping signals part wasnt against the rules or there would be no way the tapes could have been made within the rules

    and despite what some keep repeating it is common knowledge what was on the tapes, there was no “cover up”

  62. Tony said

    “What was different with Spygate is that teams had specifically been instructed not to videotape opposing teams’ signals on the sideline during the game, and the Patriots did it anyway.”

    “It wasn’t getting signals, it was the process of videotaping and using electronic equipment during the game,” Dungy said of the difference between the Patriots and other teams.

    Tony knows more than any of you. And they didn’t show all the tapes. Keep lying Patriot fans. Btw, Congrats on your epic comeback. Hopefully you didn’t cheat.

  63. bullcharger says:
    Feb 8, 2017 9:19 AM

    Where were all you coaches/cowards during Spygate? Jimmy Johnson was the only one that said a thing about their team filming and stealing signals at that time.
    ————————————————————-
    Cowher said it too.

  64. For 10 years now, Pats fans have had to listen to trolls and haters about how the “everybody does it” excuse has no merit whatsoever.

    Well guess what trolls and haters. Everybody does it! It just took 10 years for everyone to admit to it.

  65. Using a videocamera to film those exact same signals from an unapproved location: Biggest deal ever in the history of the NFL.

    ————————————
    Second – deflated footballs was bigger.

  66. Pats’ Spygate wasn’t that they videoed – it was camera placement for Q1 of Wk1 after rules were re-interpreted in 2007. The camera had to be 2yds farther back in the stands. This decision by Goofdell came months after Tagliabue’s late 2006 memo – this came before Tag’s decision that the Jets were ok sideline-videoing the Pats because the Jets had said they wouldn’t use the film DURING THAT game. Tag said that complied with the new memo too. But Goofdell in wk1 of 2007 said no, the info gleaned from the video can’t be used for ANY game thereafter and thus the 15mins of film was confiscated and the Pats crucified as spies in the crime of the century – Mangini later apologized/regretted his complaint.
    —————————————-
    How come Pats fans always leave out the part where the videotapers were dressed as “Kraft productions” employees to avoid detection? I don’t know what they gained from it, maybe nothing. But they were being incredibly deceptive in the way they were going about it. Bill didn’t
    misunderstand the rule. He deliberately broke it. That said, he’s still the greatest coach in my lifetime. But he’s also not pure as the driven snow as Pats fans like to think.

  67. I can’t stand the holier than thou Dungy, but he’s right. All teams do it, and if the other team is flashing their signals, are you supposed to look away? Of course not.

  68. “We wanted to take and destroy that information,” he said. “They may have collected it within the rules, but we couldn’t determine that. So we felt that it should be destroyed.”

    most of the tapes were made “within the rules” since it was only in 2 stadiums(the Old Giants Stadium and Lambeau, coincidentally the 2 places they got “caught” that the home team is under the press box so you cant see the coaches from the legal filming spot.

    but what Goodell said above proves that the taping signals part wasnt against the rules or there would be no way the tapes could have been made within the rules

    and despite what some keep repeating it is common knowledge what was on the tapes, there was no “cover up”

    ——–

    that’s your argument? what roger said? in the next post you’ll be talking about how goodell is such a liar & you still wouldn’t recognize the irony.

  69. Whether the Pats videotaped or not is not the question. Basically they were taping from an area they were not allowed to tape from. That is it. There was no evidence that they used the tapes for any nefarious purposes. Lost in all of this is the common sense aspect of it. What evidence do I have of that, simple, they continued to win games long after they stopped doing it. If it was so crucial how would this winning continue.

    You have 2 distinct sides here, on the one side we have the Pats haters, willing to believe any negative item said or printed about them whether there is supporting evidence or not. Why, simply because they are blinded by the hatred. On the other side are Pats fans equally guilty of being blind to what is said but from the other side of the spectrum.

    Lastly, let it go. If you want to complain about a way teams are doing business at lease have the decency to not be a hypocrite. Ask yourself if your team is guilty of indiscretions, I’ll answer it for you, they probably are…
    From PFT circa 2009
    @Dolphinatic
    Q: How about the spying thing Jimmy (Johnson). You’re a coach does that bother you what Belichick did?
    JJ: Oh please. I’ve said it on our show. Eighteen years ago a scout for the Chiefs told me what they did, and he said what you need to do is just take your camera and you go and zoom in on the signal caller and that way you can sync it up. The problem is that if they’re not on the press box side you can’t do it from the press box, you have to do it from the sideline. This was 18 years ago.
    Q: You think the NFL came down too hard on them?
    JJ: No, no, I said it on the show. He was wrong for doing it for the simple reason that the league knew this was going on not just in New England but around the league. And the league sent out the memorandum to all of the teams saying you cannot do this. And so that’s when Bill Belichick was wrong. After he got the memorandum saying don’t do it any more, he did it.
    Q: Did you ever steal signals?
    JJ: Oh in a heartbeat, yeah. Yes I did.
    Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?
    JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.
    Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?
    JJ: Yeah.
    Q: Oh you did.
    JJ: That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimer’s scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.
    Q: Where’d you put your guy who was videotaping? Where was he?
    JJ: My guy was up with my camera crew in the press box. So you’d just put an extra camera up with your camera crew in the press box who zoomed in on the signal callers. That’s the best way to do it, but anyway you can’t always do that because the press box camera crew might be on the same side as the opposing team. If they’re on the same side as the opposing team that’s when you need to do it from the sideline.

  70. “And nobody knows if it helped the Patriots since the tapes were destroyed. If another team was videotaping signals provide your source.”

    Actually the tapes were show to the media at the press conference announcing the punishment, and Jay Glazer reputedly still has a copy of at least one of them.

    ——————–

    just a clarification… those were only the matt walsh tapes. the tapes the pats submitted were destroyed before anyone outside of league offices got to see them. so the nfl either did the pats a huge favor or a huge disservice. they can neither prove their innocence nor prove their guilt.

  71. What’s great about this is that it shows the typical lazy, uninformed, couch-potato Patriot antagonist what really goes on in the NFL. Should we erase the Harrison 82 yard touchdown from the books and should the Steelers protest that whole season because they lost that game becuase Peyton Manning tricked Arians, who was trying to “cheat”?

    Hell, no. This stuff has been going on forever and is part of the game FOR ALL TEAMS.

    The Patriot antagonists just desperately need something to cling to instead of admitting the greatness of the team is what earned them all those titles.

    Deal with it while the Patriots prepare to win another one.

  72. For all the comments defending the Patriots in the spygate scandal, let me say this:

    As a Patriots fan, I really get off on all the hate from other fans, players and the league office. I honestly don’t know what I’d do if the NFL started treating the Pats equally to the other 31 teams. I think if they ever did this, a huge part of the Patriots mystique would be lost.

    We as fans know the league is out to get our team, and the fact that they continue to win championships in spite of all the hate and unfair treatment makes winning that much sweeter. For most teams that win all the time, the Nth championship pales in comparison to the first one in terms of how much the fans appreciate it. Not in our case – the 5th Lombardi is absolutely the best one of all, because they won it in spite of all the shiz the league shoveled in their path to get there.

    I can only speak for myself, but I am really looking forward to the next overblown, manufactured scandal and subsequent disproportionate punishment so that the Pats sixth Lombardi is the most special one of all.

  73. qbarrel says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:56 AM

    Videotaping an opponent’s sideline from your own sideline and not the designated “three walled enclosure with roof” is a violation of the rules.

    This is the entire essence of “spygate”. When you see it boiled down to this, it looks really petty of the league to drop the hammer the way they did, particularly since the Patriots came clean and admitted it right off the bat.
    ==================
    THIS a thousand times over !!!!

    How many years have Pats fans been telling other fans about the myth of stealing signals and the nominal nature of what they were fund culpable of? But yeah, it’s delusional whiny fan boys that will do\say anything to make sure the Pats aren’t guilty of anything

    The harshest punishment in league history … not once but twice. For filming in the wrong location. smh

  74. Why tapes were burnt is anyone’s guess. But that’s all it is, a guess.

    Oh I know. Trust me on this one. They were destroyed for one reason only.

    Some of the tapes showed other team video staff pointing their cameras right back.

    In other words… other teams were doing it. Can’t have #LyinRoger look silly to punish one team for something every team was doing.

    Now you know the truth. Any other opinion is garbage.

    🙂

  75. Just a reminder of the taping rule in 2007:

    “No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches’ booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game. All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead.”

    So if they recorded signals in the exact same manner, but from Bob Kraft’s suite, there would no such thing as Spygate.

  76. Factschecker, the Patriots were never busted for sending their camera man to the other teams sideline. The video footage was all gathered from their own sideline. You are quoting another ridiculous myth. What can they view from the opposing sideline that they can’t view from their own??? Is filming the backside of all the back ups gonna give them insight into the signals???

  77. Dungy is such a hypocrite. He was one of the first to pounce on the Patriots for this very thing. To think that a “man of God” would do such a thing… and say that it’s legal. Laughable. What a phony.

  78. Pats fans have had their head in the sand for years on Spygate. The Pats had been video taping opponent’s walk throughs and practices for years. The amount of data they gathered gave them an advantage….an advantage far beyond what you would typically gain from traditional signal stealing as Dungy described. It was a big enough advantage that Roger destroyed the tapes to avoid a scandal he wanted no part of. Think about it. The league can’t keep a secret to save their soul. But NOBODY has seen those tapes. If the tapes were ever leaked it would be a HUGE black eye for the Pats and the NFL. The Pats got away with one on Spygate. This is why the league tries to throw the book at the Pats every time they do something wrong.

  79. Goodell and Kraft were buddies during spygate and no one knows what’s on the tapes. They weren’t all revealed. This wasn’t a minor infraction as it was punished severely. You can’t blame everything on hate and jealousy.

  80. Speaking of the Colts… funny how they haven’t been even close to the same team and Andrew Luck hasn’t been close to the same QB since the NFL started checking PSI in footballs.

    Interesting huh? Makes you wonder.

    🙂

  81. Colts:

    ZERO titles since being caught 10 seasons ago on national TV cheating with fake crowd noise in the RCA Dome.

    A .500 record in two seasons and 0 playoff appearances since being caught with underinflated footballs the night of the 2014 AFC Championship game.

    Interesting huh?

  82. One 1 left, Marshall Faulk. That guy is easily the most bitter human being regarding the Patriots. He just can’t understand that his COACHES are the people culpable for them losing, not the Pats. ANY adjustment, ANY would’ve gotten the Pats on the back foot and likely smashed that day. Wouldn’t have hurt them if they were a little bit tougher either. As I recall, the Pats put 4 of their guys on IR when they played them in the regular season because they beat the living crap out of them, to boot.

  83. Dungy is back pedaling and trying to make himself look good. Let’s face it, everybody steals signal! What makes me barf is these fans on moral high horse piling on the Patriots only because they win games and I’m a Bears fan. Another word from you self righteous trolls will make me vomit in my mouth.

  84. so basically the tainted past that people keep bringing up and the repeated cheating episodes all really never happened, and the heavy penalties for repeated offenses was all bogus.

    but you could show people 2 + 2 = 4, and some would still say no that’s not true.

  85. Unfortunately, we will (probably) never know the extent of what was on the video tapes that the NFL destroyed. Most of what everyone is saying (for or against the Patriots on this thread) is speculation.

    To add to the speculation…. Don’t forget when Josh McDaniels was head coach of the Broncos he and Steve Scarnecchia were caught filming the 49ers PRACTICE in London. As Allen Iverson would say, not the game, practice. Scarnecchia was terminated immediately and McDaniels was within the month.

    McDaniels had only worked for one NFL franchise before Denver and that was 2001-2008 with the Pats. It would be speculation to say who he learned it from them, but you can connect the dots if you want.

    Marshall Faulk’s accusation from the Pats in the Super Bowl is also related to the practice. Faulk provides no proof, so it is only an accusation.

    The old adage, where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

    Spygate is in the past, so time to move on. I’m sure every NFL team tries to find an advantage with their opponent. Pats are no different, but they managed to get caught and it violated the NFL rules and regulations.

    Congrats to Pats on the SB victory.

  86. I have read the comments here and the people that continue to want to make “spygate” a big deal are ignoring the biggest issue why it isn’t, and there is no mystery why,

    The pats weren’t penalized for what they did before 2007 because nothing that they got penalized for in 2007 was illegal prior to 2007. They got penalized for something they did in the first game of the 2007 season that wasn’t illegal before that season.

    If you want to argue they did something illegal that may have helped them win that jets game, knock yourself out. If you want to argue they need to be discredited for doing something that was completely legal prior to 2007, there is no mystery to anyone why you want to try to do that.

  87. btv77

    The Pats had been video taping opponent’s walk throughs and practices for years.
    ===============================

    is that you Marshall?

    absolutely amazing what myths people will hold onto.

  88. Its really that simple. But in no way shape or form is this even close to sneaking someone undercover into another teams practice to tape it lol, thats just ridiculous.

    ———————————-

    You’ve really kept up with this well. If you truly don’t know what is factually incorrect about your statement above then I can’t help you.

  89. that’s your argument? what roger said? in the next post you’ll be talking about how goodell is such a liar & you still wouldn’t recognize the irony.

    just wondering how the tapes could have possibly been “made within the rules” if the act of taping signals was illegal and providing evidence that it was where they were taping from that was the issue.

    but you have a point, Roger might have been lying but then I’ll respond with the rule itself and round and round we go

    have at it, sorry I got sucked in to this again lol

  90. “This wasn’t a minor infraction as it was punished severely.”

    Right, like Deflategate. It’s all BS.. They talk about integrity and this league has none. Brady given 4 game suspension to give other AFC teams a competitive advantage. The league had to do something to stop the Patriots from winning all the time.

  91. What a long-winded bunch of BS of an explanation Dungy gives. Don’t try to insult our intelligence, Tony. You cheated. Manning cheated. The Patriots were punished for it and you got away with it for years. Why? Because you are a good Christian? Please……….

  92. This is the most key thing he said to all the haters out there.

    “Steve DeBerg called every play for us on the defensive sideline because Joe Montana and Bill Walsh hadn’t changed the signals since they’d been there. They beat us 28-14. We knew every play and they beat us. So that’s been part of football.”

    ^^
    The team still has to execute and out play the other. Brady routinely knows the opposing defense without stealing signals, doesn’t mean he will be successful or that its cheating… preparation gives a slight edge

  93. Every NFL team gets the official NFL Game Film for games they request without issue, every week, of their opponent and are allowed to keep those films for reference. That game film also captures the signals for the most part. The NFL doesn’t go out of their way to mask those signals. So all you need to do is watch the official NFL film. What Bill did was dumb ignoring that memo, but for anyone to say signal stealing was never done by any other club is dumb talk. It is still done to this day, available every week, provided to them by the NFL themselves.

  94. You realize what this is? Dungy and the rest of the League throwing up their hands in surrender.

    Having come to the realization that all of their sham investigations and unwarranted penalties still aren’t enough to slow down the Patriots, there’s no longer any reason to pretend anymore.

    They’re saying it was never about the integrity of the game. It was just a desperate attempt to stop the dominance of the Patriots any way they could.

  95. TRUTH!!!! I wish more people would just say it. Not politically sugar coat it. TRUTH. Thank you Tony, for being a man, its amazing how rare this is, and sad.

  96. So the NFL is like NASCAR – if you ain’t cheatin’, you ain’t tryin’. Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiceeee……..

  97. Deion Sanders is a known Manning hater so I wouldn’t take anything he says about the Manning’s Colts seriously.

  98. It bothered me that three of the four players (not counting Easley) inducted into the HOF this year work for NFL Network. Then they also paved the way for Jerry Jones. It’s a boys club.

    Sanders is different. He’s not a shill.

  99. yooperman says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:04 AM

    I have a close friend that is a ham radio operator. He put a chip in one of his radios that will pick up any frequency, even the ones that are beyond the band width that is available for public use. If he could get his radio close enough (inside the stadium or near it) he could hear what is being said by the coaches.
    Would that be cheating?

    Good question, yes, but it uses “spread spectrum” which means that a hacker could find one frequency but needs all used frequencies to reassemble a composite signal. In the few seconds of permitted communication that would be difficult.

  100. This is why Goodell/Pash destroyed BB’s tapes, lied about Spygate and used ESPN to lie.

    It’s also why Walsh’s tapes could have exposed Goodell.

    If other teams were casually standing on the sidelines, and the tape was never ejected, or used, during a game, NFL officials did not care under Tagliabue.

    Woody Johnson was playing games, decided how far awau the cameraman stood, somehow, magically, only gave Belichick some mystery advatnage.

    So, when BB mocked Mangini in broad daylight in Sept 2007 in retaliatging for Manigini trying to use TWO CAMERMEN in Foxborough in January of 2007 in a playoff game, and was rejected for the request by NE and the NFL, shutting their 2nd camera down, BB knew of the issue and mocked the arrogance of Mangini and the Jets, mocking that the next chance he had.

    At worst, it’s a conference call from Goodell telling each franchise to knock it off “or there will be severe repercussions for both”, as Rozelle and Tagliabue quielty did in years past, but Woody Johnson demanded Goodell cheat the Pats to steal a draft pick instead.

    After that, it has become well known that Goodell is on the take, as a former Jets employee, with 75% of the NFL front office as former Jets players or employees.

    They did same thing with Framegate. The only difference was, they had nothing to truly use to frame, so they completely concocted Deflategate from thin air, because NE was looking dominant yet again, signing Revis to a 1 year deal, at a reduced cost, no different than BB getting Seau cheap, Adalius Thomas a as a prized FA, and fleecing teams for Moss and Welker.

    Arrest, try and convict Roger Goodell.

    FACT: NE has never cheated. It’s a myth.

  101. I agree with Dungy, everyone was and still is trying to steal signs, and yes, although you can’t video from the sidelines anymore since 8/2007, you can video up in the stands, hence why coaches still cover their mouths throughout the game.
    On a separate note, piping in stadium noise as was customary with the Colts and last year Atlanta got caught doing is far more egregious, regardless of what blowhard Bill Polian says, go figure.

  102. 2010:

    Bill Cowher: “You know, let me just say this: To answer your question, no, I don’t think so (it’s not an advantage for one team over another).
    I just know as a head coach, you are always looking for a competitive edge. We had people out there trying to look at signals. We had guys go to games. They would tape the signal caller and also write it down. They would take it back and match up the signals with the game film and certain defenses with certain plays that were being called, particularly the defenses being called, to see if we could come up with some kind of an alert for a signal. So, what they did with videotaping the signal caller, people do it with the people in the stands!!
    These people sitting there in the stands, looking at the signal, writing it down and matching up the 1st and 10 signal. Ok? Then you go back again and the 2nd and 10 and here’s the signal. You do that for a whole game.
    You then go back and match up the defenses with the signal. And you can come up with what the signal was.
    So, you don;’t need a video tape with what they were talking about doing. And people were doing it. WE were doing that. Everybody does that. You’re TRYING to gain a competitive edge. There is nothing wrong with that.
    That’s why baseball players go through the mirage of signals. They’ve got all these different codes. That’s part of the competitive spirit of the game. I think it’s totally overblown. I think if you get caught (signals compromised), then do what we did and go to wristbands, you are worried about it. We started putting defenses on wristbands. Then you find a way to not get caught (signals compromised). When your good at something and people try steal from ya, I think it’s flattering.”
    Nice and tidy.

  103. The Patriots where taping the signals from a non designated area. That’s why they got in trouble. The taping part wasn’t illegal you just had to do it from the area where every team knew, so that all teams where on the same level playing field….

    ———

    Correct, but Belichick WANTED to be seen by Manboobs.

    Goodell lied and removed the Pats/Jets feud context and the Mangini/BB feud context and this BEFORE Spygate:

    HEMPSTEAD, N.Y. — The spy games between the New York Jets and New England Patriots began last season.

    The Jets were caught videotaping at Gillette Stadium last season and the Patriots had that New York employee removed from the area, according to published reports Wednesday. Jets coach Eric Mangini said his team received permission to film behind both end zones during the playoff game in January.

    “We taped the game is what we taped, and we taped end-zone copy of the game, and we tape a double-end zone, which is standard operating procedure for us,” Mangini said Wednesday. “We request that every single road game, and it’s usually granted if physically it’s possible. And when people request it from us, we do the same thing: We grant it.”

    Mangini maintained the Jets did nothing wrong and had filmed at New England during the regular season without incident. It was nothing like what the Patriots did earlier this season, when a New England employee was caught taping New York’s defensive signals and punished by the league.

    “We do it every time we go on the road,” Mangini repeated. “We ask for permission to do it. It’s within the league rules, and when people ask us to do it, we grant it, as well.”

    When asked why the Patriots stopped the Jets if they had already given them permission, Mangini just shrugged.

    “I don’t know,” he said. “Really, it just was what it was. We had asked for permission, it was granted and then that changed, and we respect their decision. It’s their stadium.”

    Mangini was also asked if the Jets were, at all, taping the Patriots’ defensive signals.

    “No,” Mangini said.

    He was then asked if the Patriots requested similar permission to have someone taping at various angles or end-zone angles. Again, Mangini replied simply: “No.”

    The Jets have not asked the undefeated Patriots if they can film from the end zones this Sunday at Foxborough.

    “Just didn’t look to get permission,” Mangini said. “Didn’t think it would be granted.”

    New England coach Bill Belichick refused to address the situation during his news conference with Patriots reporters.

    “There’s a lot of things that have happened in the past,” Belichick said. “Really, the past is in the past.”

    Patriots players were also staying away from the issue, much as they did when Pittsburgh’s Anthony Smith guaranteed a victory over New England last week.

    “It just doesn’t matter. Who cares?” safety Rodney Harrison said. “It has no impact whatsoever, just like when Smith made his comments. It has no impact. The game isn’t won or lost through the media Monday through Saturday. It’s won or lost on Sunday, 1 o’clock. It’s whoever makes more plays.”

    This is just the latest in the long-running rivalry between the teams. After helping Belichick and the Patriots win three Super Bowls as a defensive assistant, Mangini left to become coach of the Jets. The relationship between the two has been frosty since.

    Things got even chillier after a Patriots video assistant was caught taping from the sidelines during their game against the Jets in Week 1, a move some speculated fueled New England’s drive to perfection. The NFL punished the Patriots by taking away their first-round draft pick, fined them $250,000 and fined Belichick another $500,000.

    A league rule prohibits teams from using a video camera on the sidelines for any purpose. In the Jets’ case, they were filming from the end zone. The Jets film from both end zones during practice, a common procedure used by NFL teams.

    “When you practice, anytime you practice, you try to shoot the unit from the sideline and then from the end zone behind them, so that you can see hand placement, fits, that type of thing,” Mangini said. “That’s how you watch practice every day. That’s how you evaluate practice every day. And it’s the same thing with games. You like to have that same copy because, really, that’s just an extension of the evaluation.”

    Mangini was unsure how many teams have asked for similar permission from New York but said the Jets have granted it to those that have. He also said the Jets have not been turned down by any teams this season.

    “It’s usually just a function of whether there’s a location that we can do it from or not,” he said. “It’s a pretty common courtesy.”

  104. 6ball says:
    Feb 8, 2017 11:45 AM
    ……………..
    By placing all the blame on Goodell, Patriots fans are being played for saps by Bisciotti and Harbaugh . It’s time to point the finger at the true culprit …. at the Baltimore Ravens.
    —————————————————————

    Don’t worry, we (Pats fans) still have plenty of hate for Bisciotti, Harbaugh, Irsay, Grigson, Vincent, Kensil, Pash…etc.

  105. This is what people in ne have been saying for 10 years. What the Patriots did was illegal. No argument. But it wasn’t “cheating.” It was a procedural crime that the media turned into an “integrity of the game” issue, which it never was.

  106. spotsdad says:
    Feb 8, 2017 8:17 AM

    Funny Dungy never commented on this for the past 15 years. I guess it didn’t fit his narrative or he didn’t want to make the Patriots look less evil.
    ———————————

    He didn’t care until someone impugned his “integrity”.

  107. Hahah dungy is lying. His team along with many others filmed signals. All you need to do is ask jimmy johnson or look up Howard Mudd, a legendary filmer of signals

  108. Sportschatteredoto lol it was never illegal. It was prohibited from the sidelines in 2007

    This is not new news. People are just jealous of the patriots.

    This is from 2007

    So says Jimmy Johnson, who also admitted to (filming)

    “Howard Mudd, who currently serves as the offensive line coach with the Colts, saying that Johnson “was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.” He was talking about FILMING FILMING FILMING signals…..sorry for any miscommunication…

    per pft.com

    Q: Via video, Jimmy? Or no?

    JJ: Oh yeah, I did it with video and so did a lot of other teams in the league. Just to make sure that you could study it and take your time, because you’re going to play the other team the second time around. But a lot of coaches did it, this was commonplace.

    Q: But did you do it by taping the signal caller?

    JJ: Yeah.

    Q: Oh you did.

    JJ: That’s what I’m saying. I was saying one of Marty Schottenheimers scouts, Mark Hatley, who has passed away now, Mark told me that’s how they did it, and Howard Mudd their offensive line coach with Kansas City, who now coaches for Tony Dungy, he was the best in the entire league at stealing signals.

  109. To all fans, media and jealous players and coaches who unfairly attacked the New England Patriots over Spygate and then deflategate thank you. It’s unlikely that without your dishonest, self-serving, self-righteous attacks driven by jealousy and/or greed (notoriety, clicks) the Patriots could have stayed so motivated for so long. So, thanks for the two extra Super Bowl victories. You certainly helped. The last 2 Parades wouldn’t have been nearly as sweet without knowing how much it exposes all of you. Please, don’t stop now. Brady has got a couple years left in him and with your help, he’ll get at least 1 more.

    PS
    Please just keep sweeping things like the Giants using radios and balls naturally deflating during cold weather games under the rug because it makes the attacks all that much more transparent.

  110. Even the whole “designated area” argument was wrong.

    Goodell got angry because the Pats ignored his memo. And then he cobbled together a pseudo-rules argument to justify the punishment. Belichick ignored the memo b/c it didn’t accurately reflect the rules. Goodell is a “I am the Law” kind of commissioner.

    And at the time, lots of teams were taping signals. If a home team caught a visiting team taping signals, they would escort the cameraman from the stadium. A visiting team had no such power.

    Spygate was little more than fake outrage. Whereas Deflategate was just fake.

  111. Serious question: has The Patriots Hate Brigade ever had a worse week than this? Follow-up question: can they ever recover?

    Smart money is on “no” and “no.”

  112. Hahah dungy is lying. His team along with many others filmed signals. All you need to do is ask jimmy johnson or look up Howard Mudd, a legendary filmer of signals

    ————-

    Of course he is lying. He’s also being disingenuous ignoring the Pats/Jets feud and removing that context from the one-off incident.

    BB knew what he was doing mocking the Jets that day, but it’s not cheating.

    It’s a conduct unbecoming fine like what TOmlin did tripping and cheating a player in LIVE GAME ACTION.

    Goodell is a liar and a fraud as is Dungy.

    I trust Chuck Knox, Bud Grant, Parcells, Johnson and Bill Cowher, before I trust these liars.

  113. Dungy’s logic doesn’t really make sense here. He is saying that stealing signals is acceptable but if you break a rule to get them, that is cheating. The end result is exactly the same so how is there any undue advantage, which is what cheating is, if you obtain signals in the same timeframe by breaking a rule? There is a massive difference between a broken rule and cheating. Wearing the wrong color cleats or celebrating too much after a big play are examples of a broken rule. Using PEDs, applying stickum, or silicon spray, pumping in crowd noise, those are things that are taking illegal advantage and thus are cheating. Filming from the wrong location is not. Pats were stupid to do it, but it was waaaay overblown.

  114. On the issue of the spygate videotapes.

    Keep the timeline in mind. The Pats gave the videotapes to Goodell, who then showed some of them to various sportswriters.

    Only after one of the tapes was leaked to Jay Glazer did Goodell start caring about them. Goodell was embarrassed that people in his own office defied his gag order. So he destroyed the tapes. Not to protect the Pats, but to protect himself. The leaks embarrassed him. So he put an end to it.

  115. They broke the rules – not sure if what they did meets the normal understanding what of cheating is. Is it cheating for an offensive lineman to hold? It’s against the rules.

  116. Hey Dungy, how about the 3 footballs that were deflated according to the gauge the ref thought he used? Or the fact they had to stop checking after 4 footballs?

  117. Someone please tell me again why this clown made the Hall of Fame? Guys that should be in are still being forced to wait, yet Dungy makes it. That is a joke to me.

  118. why can’t nowday people understand there 2 huge differences of doing old school (cheating but legal) and new school cheating (illegal)…

    Old school is to use your own visual and memory to figure out the codes and crack it, not many can do it, thus making it legal in first place, and it’s not really cheating when you done your homeworks?

    New school is using ANY digital devices, which is just make it much easier to crack the codes when you can save the memories and review it over and over.

    We’ve done old school ways for years, and that still ain’t gonna change.

  119. I have to agree with Mr. Dungy, these tactics are all just part of the game, and what gives it some character. Be it Baseball, Football or other competitive team sports, cracking the the code of the opponents’ strategies is always a part of the game.

    Show me someone who denies they ever did it, and I’ll show you a liar.

  120. Tony Dungy falls right into the same bucket of all the other sour grape, jealous, and inferior competitors to the Pats…

    He’s in that same jealous bucket w/M. Faulk, Shannon Sharpe, LaDanian, Scotty Brunell, Chris Simms, etc etc etc… Their constant whining is really looking quite pathetic at this point…

    Perhaps, they should listen to themselves talk – they’re losing credibility and tarnishing their own reputations by every whining syllable that comes out of their jealous little mouths… it seems they all have some weird inferiority complexes…

    it’s ok fellows – you’ve all had cute little NFL careers in some fashion. It’s now time to accept that it is ok for someone to be far superior and better than you at what you did in your career – really, it is…

  121. So basically all the Patriots did was jay walk? got it.

    Also Tony Dungy using the good ole “Everyone did it” excuse. Just like Jerry “Stickum” Rice.

  122. And let’s be real here.

    The main reason BB put that camera right where Mangini could see it was to get inside his head. A little passive-aggressive taunt, if you will.

    Mangini was the one ultimately in charge of that when he was the Pats’ DC so of course he was going to see it.

  123. Dungy is 100% right, but media portrayed Spygate at the time that the Patriots were the only team stealing signals and no other coach stood up and said what Dungy is saying now. They all kept quiet.

    Nice to say now that stealing signals is not cheating and all teams do it now, but it would have been nice for a few prominent coaches to come forward with that in 2007.

    The NFL intentionally inflamed the situation with how they handled it and got the reality show they wanted with the Patriots trying to win every game by 50 and then losing in dramatic fashion in the Super Bowl.

  124. deflectorsofthetruth says:
    Feb 8, 2017 9:33 AM
    Belichick was videotaping in Green Bay in 2006 and his guy was kicked out. He knew it wasn’t allowed. There was no misinterpretation of the memo.

    ——–

    I don’t think anyone is disputing that. That is why they were punished. However, everyone one was stealing signals. It’s not illegal. That’s what Dungy is saying. He wasn’t volunteering that in 2007 though.

  125. Stealing signals is sports has been going on for years.
    Baseball signals, football signals, tennis signals, basketball signals, probably hockey signals.

    Is it going on now? Probably. It’s a lot harder to catch but it’s probably going on.

    Roger that

  126. ball says:
    Feb 8, 2017 7:58 AM
    .
    The obvious questions to Dungy would have been, ” Have you at any time time taped other team’s signals? ” Then follow up with, ” Do you have knowledge of any other team that taped signals like the Patriots? ”

    No the obvious question is, what is the difference between that and taping as it relates to competitive advantage?
    The answer is nothing. Also, taping was not illegal until 2007. Some would argue that it still isn’t but that’s for another day.

    Dungy*

  127. All of it, is gamesmanship, a great tradition in American sports before poor losers became widespread. Come on folks, let’s make the country great again. Stop moaning and groaning and tip the hat to a superior team on any given year.

  128. btv77 says:
    Feb 8, 2017 9:53 AM
    Pats fans have had their head in the sand for years on Spygate. The Pats had been video taping opponent’s walk throughs and practices for years. The amount of data they gathered gave them an advantage….an advantage far beyond what you would typically gain from traditional signal stealing as Dungy described. It was a big enough advantage that Roger destroyed the tapes to avoid a scandal he wanted no part of. Think about it. The league can’t keep a secret to save their soul. But NOBODY has seen those tapes. If the tapes were ever leaked it would be a HUGE black eye for the Pats and the NFL. The Pats got away with one on Spygate. This is why the league tries to throw the book at the Pats every time they do something wrong.
    ======================
    Ugh. The old dusty advantage argument again? Based on what? The Pats W\L record before and after Spygate? LOL

    It’s fine if you want to claim an advantage was created. How about trying to prove what that advantage actually was? That’s the thing with that whole advantage angle. You can claim that was the case all you want but in the end there’s absolutely nothing proving it was any more so than stealing signals legally.

    The same tapes that were viewed in the lobby of the NFL office in NY for weeks? Oh wait. You must be referring to the same mythical tapes that only exist within the discussion of big foot. Everybody knows all conspiracy theories are true. LOL

  129. deflectorsofthetruth says:
    Feb 8, 2017 9:55 AM
    Goodell and Kraft were buddies during spygate and no one knows what’s on the tapes. They weren’t all revealed. This wasn’t a minor infraction as it was punished severely. You can’t blame everything on hate and jealousy.
    ======================
    Sure you can. Even more so when you make up “facts” indicating more tapes were present. You make it pretty easy to do just that actually.

  130. sportschatterdotco says:
    Feb 8, 2017 10:21 AM
    that’s your argument? what roger said? in the next post you’ll be talking about how goodell is such a liar & you still wouldn’t recognize the irony.

    just wondering how the tapes could have possibly been “made within the rules” if the act of taping signals was illegal and providing evidence that it was where they were taping from that was the issue.
    ======================
    Maybe to stop circling around you should examine the fact that taping signals isn’t illegal. Start with that. I suspect that will help a ton.

  131. btv77 says:
    Feb 8, 2017 9:53 AM
    Pats fans have had their head in the sand for years on Spygate. The Pats had been video taping opponent’s walk throughs and practices for years.

    What BS. There were never any tapes of a walk through practice, but don’t let facts get in the way of a great story! The entire issue was about where you could position video, pre 2007 the field was ok, after end of 2006 the field was off limits. Video recording of signs in stands ok on field off limits after 2006 season. Enough with the BS already. Keep hatn’ and don’t believe your eyes, me, I will enjoy what I’ seeing – GOAT!!!!!

  132. But this is the integrity league. Stealing signals is what is destroying it. Sorry. My bad. The Patriots stealing signals is what is destroying it.

    LMAO

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