Tom Brady sees the end coming “sooner rather than later”

AP

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady obviously is far closer to the end of his career than the beginning. It’s still not clear how close he may be. But he knows it’s coming.

I think about it more now than I used to,” Brady tells Oprah Winfrey in an interview that debuts this weekend, via the Boston Herald. “I think I’m seeing there’s definitely an end coming sooner, rather than later.”

He continues to avoid specifics about when he’ll walk away, keeping his commitment to play open ended.

“As long as I’m still loving it,” Brady said. “As long as I’m loving the training and the preparation and willing to make the commitment. But it’s also, I think what I alluded to a lot in the [Tom vs. Time] docu-series, there’s other things happening in my life, too. I do have kids that I love, and I don’t want to be a dad that’s not there, driving my kids to their games . . . my kids have brought a great perspective in my life. Kids just want the attention. You better be there. And be available to them.”

Despite plenty of speculation regarding the reasons for Brady’s absence from voluntary offseason workouts in 2018, the simplest explanation could be that his family has demanded more of his attention, prompting him to choose spending time with them over non-mandatory work days. And that could be part of the complex compromise that will come to characterize the latter days of Brady’s Hall of Fame career.

As long as he can maintain that balance — and as long as he can perform at a high level — he’ll keep going.

Even then, no one should ever expect Brady to provide an expiration date to his career. He’s not wired to have a Jeter-style farewell tour, which would put himself above the team. Brady likely will insist he intends to keep playing until the moment he decides to stop, and it will come as a surprise, no matter how inevitable everyone realizes it now is.

397 responses to “Tom Brady sees the end coming “sooner rather than later”

  1. As much as I dislike the Pats, I’m going to miss Brady when he’s gone. Manning, Brees, & Brady, we’ll look back on this time as the Golden Years of NFL Quarterbacking.

  2. Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

  3. Obviously he’s closer to the end than the beginning of his career, this will be his 19th season in the NFL. He’d have to expect be in the NFL for 20 more seasons to be closer to the beginning than the end. So don’t get your hopes up that this means he’ll be retiring any time soon.

  4. What a run this guy has given us. I used to watch Montana and the 49ers as a kid when Pats games were blacked out on TV for not selling out, or when they’d inevitably miss the playoffs, and wonder “where can we get a guy like that?” I remember asking my dad if the Patriots would ever win a Super Bowl, and he said “maybe at some point in your lifetime.” Well, that player I dreamed of having was off somewhere, a kid just like me, playing Pop Warner and going to elementary school, just in some other town in some other state. Pretty surreal that a peer would grow up to be arguably the best to ever play the game, and he ended up playing for MY home team, acquired under unlikely expectations, and this guy has given us almost two decades of straight up magic. I mean, FIVE Super Bowls, and in contention every year, what an accomplishment. My dad is 86 now, and I worry every Father’s Day is our last at this point, but whenever his time comes, I’ll rest easier knowing he got to see all this too. And not for nothing, I’m a little jealous of the old guys who won’t have to watch a post-Brady/Belichick Patriots franchise for decades afterwards, haha. However many seasons we have left of Tommy, I’ll savor the hell out of them. We get so caught up in rumors and speculation, but really, I just want to shut up and watch the GOAT chuck the football around while we still can.

  5. He’s not 21 anymore. If he gets seriously hurt there will be regret and alot of what ifs. Its a young mans game where a younger body can take more punishment. Great career, but for his and his family’s sake he should move on. He has nothing to prove or gain anymore.

  6. Its a shame they got rid of Jimmy G. You think they would have learned to always listen to The Hoodie.

  7. I do think what he said is telling:

    “As long as I’m still loving the training and the preparation”

    This offseason he is not “loving the training and preparation” For the first time he has tried to stay away from it as much as possible. Couple that with the growing friction with BB and I think the writing is on the wall. Tom is telling us this is going to be his last year in New England. Possibly full retirement after this season, but no doubt his last season playing for BB.

    I think Tom is good for the NFL. I did not like him not being a man and admitting fault in deflategate, but that does not make him not a great QB and fun to watch play.

    After this season which will be his last playing for Bill, I do hope he finds a team where he can enjoy his final year or years in the NFL.

    No debate one of the greatest QB’s of all-time and is a joy to watch play the game.

  8. He played his whole career in a division with no competition,,lucky him he’s the LOAT !

  9. Well then, it’s a good thing they traded Jimmy G away sooner rather than later. They should’ve kept JG! What a dumb move.

  10. I completely understand GOAT.

    You made all the years as a youngster sitting on the aluminum benches at Schaffer worth it in my elder years!

    Hope you hang in there a few more.

  11. jimmylikesthat says:

    If he’s on HGH why isn’t his forehead enormous like that former QB in all the commercials?
    =============================================

    If course it’s HGH. I laugh when these guys claim it’s new nutrition and training discoveries. It’s HGH and everyone knows it. The media covers it up. When the police found a roomful of stuff at the Eagles training camp a few years ago, the story got buried quick, party because of the tragedy of Andy Reid’s son. But one of these days when a true journalist comes along the NFL will have a huge scandal on their hands.

  12. terripet says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:12 am
    It’s over this year
    ______________________________

    You’ve said that 8 years in a row and will repeat it next year. Eventually you will be right. Go hang a particpation banner, pump in some noise and pat yourself on the back for a job poorly done.

  13. The Cheating window was finally slammed shut, locked, and plywood covered by Nick Foles.
    Slinker away and good riddance…..the game will be more credible without you….and BB…and shady Bobby Kraft

  14. Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.

  15. Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:35 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.
    =================================================================

    If you think all he does is stand there and throws a ball you know nothing about the game of football.

  16. Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:35 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.

    ——

    I don’t think you understand how HGH works…

  17. With the demands that football puts on a player and Brady puts on himself, once the thought of life beyond football enters a player’s mind, the end is very near.

    Either that or he’s angling for a high priced contract extension.

  18. Brady will retire the first time the Patriots aren’t in the Super Bowl. He doesn’t have the ambition and drive anymore to be playing for a rebuilding team. Who can blame him? He has nothing left to prove to anyone. He’s accomplished everything that a player can reasonably expect to in his career. He’ll end in up the broadcasting booth for one of the networks or maybe even on Monday Night Football. It’s not a bad way for him to step away from playing.

  19. Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:39 am
    Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:35 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.
    =================================================================

    If you think all he does is stand there and throws a ball you know nothing about the game of football.

    ——-

    Have you read his book and read about the TB12 method? It’s literally working out with body weight and resistance bands, with some messages a few times a week.

  20. Looking at the all time passing yards record it’s likely that Brees will be number 1 and Brady would be about 500 to 1000 yrds away from surpassing Brett favre and Peyton Manning after this year. All Brady would need to do is play 1 year after Brees and he would own the record. Brady is probably hoping Brees retires after this year and he gives it one last hoorah next year.

    RK PLAYER YDS
    1 Peyton Manning 71,940
    2 Brett Favre 71,838
    3 DREW BREES 70,445
    4 TOM BRADY 66,159

  21. The ‘unathletic’ Brady was also drafted as a catcher by the Montreal Expos. Probably nothing compared to everone’s illustrious Little League careers.

  22. Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 10:06 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:39 am
    Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:35 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.
    =================================================================

    If you think all he does is stand there and throws a ball you know nothing about the game of football.

    ——-

    Have you read his book and read about the TB12 method? It’s literally working out with body weight and resistance bands, with some messages a few times a week.
    =====================================================

    Have you read Lance Armstrong’s book It’s Not About The Bike? You people sound EXACTLY like the people and media who defended Armstrong. Same as the people who defended Mark McGuire. Exactly. But yes, it turned out they were guilty. But they were just the big names. Everyone was doing it. Brady is just a big name. Everyone is doing it. You can laugh at me the same way they laughed at Greg LeMond when he accused Armstrong of doping.

    Andy Reid’s son was employed as an assistant strength training coach. The police found his room full of steroids. The Eagles actually tried to claim it was all for him. Teams are just a guilty as players and someday the walls will come crashing down.

  23. Yeah, as great as Brady has been, Father Time is undefeated. If he avoids a serious injury, he could play at his usual level for 2-3 more seasons, but time is catching up on him.

  24. terripet says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:12 am

    It’s over this year
    ————————

    Geez. At least give the Colts a game or two.

  25. “Andy Reid’s son was employed as an assistant strength training coach. The police found his room full of steroids. The Eagles actually tried to claim it was all for him. Teams are just a guilty as players and someday the walls will come crashing down”.

    Not true made up! They found heroin, his.

  26. TruFBFan says:
    June 16, 2018 at 10:13 am
    Pats fans: “Fake news!”

    The rest of us: ” Eventually reality has to creep in, even to your limited minds.”
    ——————————————————
    Pats fans: Some day Tom Brady will retire, thanks for all the memories.

    The rest: Brady’s done. Patriots are finished. Yada, yada, yada… and on and on, for quite a number of years now.

    Who sees reality and whose minds are limited?

  27. officialgame says:
    June 16, 2018 at 10:33 am
    “Andy Reid’s son was employed as an assistant strength training coach. The police found his room full of steroids. The Eagles actually tried to claim it was all for him. Teams are just a guilty as players and someday the walls will come crashing down”.

    Not true made up! They found heroin, his.
    =====================================================

    Steroids present in room of Garrett Reid when he died
    AP Published 3:43 p.m. ET Dec. 17, 2012 | Updated 5:41 p.m. ET Dec. 17, 2012

  28. “HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.”

    He said HGH, not anabolic steroids. HGH helps accelerate recover from injuries, minor and major and helps to maintain tissue integrity. Can’t imagine why any player in their 40s could possibly want that….

  29. Great,great qb,but his wife turned him into an international prima Donna fruitcake.In the end his phony trainer will dwindle him,guaranteed.

  30. PresidentTrumpIsRightRespectYourCountryAndFlag says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:21 am
    Greatest system QB ever!

    ==================================

    i see what you did there. very clever. i agree with you that they named the greatest offensive system ever after the guy who made it go. if it was any other system he would be a 500 qb but i prefer he plays within the tom brady system as it has had amazing results so far.

  31. Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 10:25 am
    Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 10:06 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:39 am
    Athans Sports Talk says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:35 am
    Michael E says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:16 am
    Well no kidding, he’s in his 40’s. HGH is allowing QB’s to perform at a high level in later years than before HGH but even that can’t stop the inevitable.

    ——

    HGH? He hardly needs that to throw a football. He is one of the most nonathletic QBs ever.
    =================================================================

    If you think all he does is stand there and throws a ball you know nothing about the game of football.

    ——-

    Have you read his book and read about the TB12 method? It’s literally working out with body weight and resistance bands, with some messages a few times a week.
    =====================================================

    Have you read Lance Armstrong’s book It’s Not About The Bike? You people sound EXACTLY like the people and media who defended Armstrong. Same as the people who defended Mark McGuire. Exactly. But yes, it turned out they were guilty. But they were just the big names. Everyone was doing it. Brady is just a big name. Everyone is doing it. You can laugh at me the same way they laughed at Greg LeMond when he accused Armstrong of doping.

    Andy Reid’s son was employed as an assistant strength training coach. The police found his room full of steroids. The Eagles actually tried to claim it was all for him. Teams are just a guilty as players and someday the walls will come crashing down.

    ——

    So your argument is every single player is cheating? Why even bring HGH up at all then? Why can’t other QBs using HGH play as long? You claim I don’t know what it takes to play QB, yet you compare him to a biker and baseball player? Doping gives you a huge advantage in cycling and HGH is proven to make you hit more HRs. Tom Brady has one of the most embarrassing 40s in combine history, yet you think he suddenly became good because he started doing HGH? The reality is guys like Lance Armstrong were accused for years before getting caught. Brady has never even been accused, so why would I simply assume? Also, you act like his age is unprecedented, which it isn’t. Guys play into their 40s all the time…

    Mark Brunell-retired at 41
    Earl Morall-retired at 42
    Doug Flutie-retired at 43
    Vinny Testaverda-retired at 44
    Warren Moon-retired at 44
    George Blanda-retired at age 48
    And of course Brett Favre and Peyton Manning (who actually may be a cheater, unless we believe his wife needed HGH)

    There is nothing special about Brady’s age and there is zero reason to suspect him of using HGH. You have demonstrated you don’t know what you are talking about and simply assume everyone is cheating.

  32. elmerbrownelmerbrown says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:27 am
    He played his whole career in a division with no competition,,lucky him he’s the LOAT !

    Yeah I know if only he played in that tough AFC SOUTH like Manning did pretty much his entire career
    He faced a bunch of competition in that division, right?

    Oh wait….

  33. Should have retired after the Atlanta game and walked off into the sunset.

    Still, there is now way the Patriots trade Garapollo without an ironclad commitment from Brady to play at least 2-3 more years.

  34. Love the mountains of salty hate – testament to how many immature trolls have watched Brady wup their team over 16yrs, reaching 12 CGs & 8 SBs. Anyone with a half a brain can see how his longevity really works – he protects himself a lot simply by ultra quick releases and throw aways, seldom scrambles or puts himself at risk, and treats his body like a temple.

    He won’t last forever, but the great Warren Moon played into his mid-40s (without the TB12 method) and Brady could easily do so too. The only problem would be a major-ish injury as even his body won’t recover like it could when he was 25.

  35. Every player is a “system” player but the great ones have a team built around them and they keep winning.
    HGH..maybe peyton should have taken some of his wifes,he may have played better in his later years and not gotten benched for osweiler.The weight of that head said a neck injury was inevitable though.

  36. If there’s a way to cheat Father Time, Brady will do it. Be on the lookout for Brady’s flattened and unrecognizable cell phone.

    Brady: “What do you mean cell phone? I don’t even own have a hammer.”

  37. u4iadman says:
    June 16, 2018 at 11:12 am
    Not GOAT Proven cheater. Deal.
    ————————

    Your long-term constant sad trolling increasingly contradicts your arguing against his greatness. But as to “proven cheater”, I refer you to the key moment from the deflategate court case:

    Judge Berman: “What evidence…on January 18?”
    NFL lawyer Nash: “No, not for that specific game.”
    Judge Berman: “The Wells report relates to only one game. There is no finding in this case that there was anything done by Mr. Brady.”

    NFL won an appeal, not on Brady’s guilt but on Fraudger’s CBA right to suspend as he sees fit.

  38. Guys play into their 40s all the time…
    Mark Brunell-retired at 41
    Earl Morall-retired at 42
    Doug Flutie-retired at 43
    Vinny Testaverda-retired at 44
    Warren Moon-retired at 44
    George Blanda-retired at age 48
    And of course Brett Favre and Peyton Manning (who actually may be a cheater, unless we believe his wife needed HGH)
    There is nothing special about Brady’s age and there is zero reason to suspect him of using HGH. You have demonstrated you don’t know what you are talking about and simply assume everyone is cheating.

    ______

    LOL yet you forget to mention which one of those played their best football at age 39,40? Which won MVP at 40? Threw for over 500 yards in SB at 40?

    Just because they played in 40’s is meaningless. Brunell, Flutie, Testaverde were certified clipboard holders.

  39. The final milestone for Peyton Manning was the year his forehead measured a true 18 inches. For Brady, it will be more of a vision thing, like having difficulty reading opposing teams’ playbooks and watching the video of their practice sessions.

  40. bannedfromchoirpractice says:
    June 16, 2018 at 11:19 am
    If there’s a way to cheat Father Time, Brady will do it. Be on the lookout for Brady’s flattened and unrecognizable cell phone.
    ————————-
    Brady offered his logs – which Fraudger refused to accept – yet they accepted Zeke Elliott’s logs and have always done so because the CBA protects players’ phones. And Fraudger never even asked for the HGH guys phones (Peyton, Harrison, Peppers, Neal, Matthews) and yet that didn’t make them automatically guilty. The simple fact is Fraudger knew there was nothing (because he had all the Pats’ staff phones) and so all he had was to push the claim that Brady got rid of his phone when Wells demanded it (which Wells didn’t) and tried to hide (by legally sealing the appeal proceedings) that Brady offered logs like EVERY other player does. Keep taking your salt tablets, and enjoy watching Brady beat your team this year.

  41. To streetyson- Tell it to the judge who upheld Brady’s four-game suspension.

  42. There’s a lot of talk here for and against Brady, but one thing we can all agree on is that below the equator he’s a total stallion. I played with Tom in college and saw him in all his glory in the locker room after every practice and game and believe me when I tell you that Tom Terrific is swinging a trunk that would make a bull elephant blush.

  43. The haters refuse to even get basic, uncontroverted facta about Deflategate and the long windup to the Grappollo trade right, and you call Pats fans ignorant? Twenty years of you embarrassing yourselves and it won’t end soon.

  44. Sooner rather than later?

    So Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, is going to play for another seven years instead of ten more years?

    I can live with that.

  45. bannedfromchoirpractice says:
    June 16, 2018 at 11:54 am
    To streetyson- Tell it to the judge who upheld Brady’s four-game suspension.
    ————————-

    The judge that upheld that the CBA allows the commisioner to suspend players even after the court clears them? That the commisioner is allowed to claim a players conduct is detrimental to the league without having to provide any clear meaning why he thinks that, just the fact that he says so. As much as that was celebrated when it was used against Brady, and really it was those powers to go ahead and slap Zeke after the investigations came up empty, how many of you are going to celebrate that finding if Goodell uses it to beat the suit the NFLPA is currently saying they are about to launch with this cattle call of lawyers they are talking about? Because really in the end Goodell never established Brady was guilty, what he established was the it didnt matter because the CBA says the commisioner can do however he pleases just because he pleases. Think about it before you celebrate.

  46. So he’s basically saying “Ill call it a career when the refs start calling holding on my o-line or when they stop calling illegal contact on the defense every time I throw an incompletion on 3rd down.”

    Those 3 total penalties called on NE throughout the entire postseason last year were far too many.

  47. One thing is certain, Tammy will never take a job on TV due to his hair plugs being even more exposed on HD TV. This fake weakling also sounds more feminine than Richard Simmons. Maybe he could get a gig announcing WNBA games on the radio. He definitely sounds more feminine than Pam Ward and any other female broadcasters ESPN has

  48. thermanmerman99 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 12:45 pm
    One thing is certain, Tammy will never take a job on TV due to his hair plugs being even more exposed on HD TV. This fake weakling also sounds more feminine than Richard Simmons. Maybe he could get a gig announcing WNBA games on the radio. He definitely sounds more feminine than Pam Ward and any other female broadcasters ESPN has

    Christ!!!

    Can you say “trying too hard”

  49. One of the biggest confirmations of greatness other that the accomplishments themselves are the people that resent it and hate the person for their greatness. The more the hate and the more vehement the hate the more you can know the greatness. You can see here how many get triggered by such an article and need to vehemently deny that greatness that they so wish was not so. They call it cheating, they say it will be over soon, they try to delect attention to others. Its all ploys to shut away that one thing they hate which is that persons greatness. Its not even others they are trying to convince it is thenselves. Brady’s haters are not the only example of this either.

  50. So Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, is going to play for another seven years instead of ten more years?

    I can live with that.

    It’s going to be very enjoyable to drink the tears of little fanboys like this Twinkie when Tammy retires. Growing up spoiled by Brady you are totally unprepared for the sorrow you are about to endure………priceless.

  51. streetyson says:
    June 16, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Fraudger refused to accept Brady’s logs…etc.

    You mentioned the sealed transcript…Isn’t that the same transcript (ordered opened by Judge Berman?) that started the “56 Lies” the NFL had told in Brady’s appeal?

  52. How selfish of Brady to contemplate retirement less than a year after insisting the organization trade the future. Not a good look from him.

  53. Wonder if Pats fans sorrow will be anywhere near what steelers and their fans have suffered at the hands of the Pats the last 17 yes.

  54. I am a lifelong pats fan and I have loved and appreciated this amazing and unprecedented run by the Patriots but I hate to admit this but I am getting very tired of Tom Brady and his act, he pushed so bb would get rid of Jimmy G and now he is talking about the end? If he was going to be like this the Pats should’ve kept Jimmy G and let Brady retire or trade him. Now it is more then likely this is TB12 last year and we don’t have a qb to replace him. End the drama already.

  55. To this day I still don’t know who the back up is to Tom. When Jimmy was there yea but now…there is nobody.

  56. NFL rigged easy schedule for yearly cakewalk to SuperBowl coupled with referees tripping over themselves to keep Tammy’s jersey from ever hitting the ground – he can easily play another few years and lose a few more superbowls.

  57. I have lived and died with the Pats since ’85. I’m grateful for all that Brady has brought to the franchise every Sunday. But he has been displaying some very human behavior the last couple years. I DO believe he ran Garoppolo out of town and I believe it’s because he saw in Jimmy G the same thing Belichick saw. Is it human to not want the team to not miss a beat when you step down? Sure. I guess I just am not used to seeing Tom Brady behave in such a human way.

  58. Pats fanboys say he will play til 50. Actually, some believe 60. Personally, I believe he can play til 70, but only because Mother Nature will exclude him from her usual plans because he is so good-looking.

  59. Let me get this straight. In the Tom vs. Time series, Brady said pretty much the exact thing quoted in this post; i.e., that it was all about his mental commitment and reconciling football with his family. Despite that, a couple of weeks ago every sports news source was in a fever, speculating that Brady’s absence from OTAs must be because he’s ticked off at Belichick and/or he doesn’t like his contract.

    But now Brady’s interviewed by Oprah Winfrey and all of a sudden “the simplest explanation could be that his family has demanded more of his attention, prompting him to choose spending time with them over non-mandatory work days.” No kidding! Anybody paying any attention knew that. But I guess this is the power of Oprah.

  60. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 12:58 pm
    So Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, is going to play for another seven years instead of ten more years?

    I can live with that.

    It’s going to be very enjoyable to drink the tears of little fanboys like this Twinkie when Tammy retires. Growing up spoiled by Brady you are totally unprepared for the sorrow you are about to endure………priceless.

    ———————-
    What tears? You are looking at it from the frustrated perspective of someone living with a loser for a long time. It shows because you dont understand what its like to have been winners for so many years. Of course all things come to an end. Even if the Pats draft the next Tom Brady next year (or if Etling turns out to be, but Im not holding my breath) even that will someday come to an end. Whether its next year or over a decade from now the pendulum will swing because it always does, and the Pats fates will change. But for us fans we already have the bird in hand. You cannot take away the history, the 16 years of greatness we have been treated to. Even in the worst case scenario (say if this upcoming camp is where Brady finally shows his decline and this coming season becomes a struggle) the fans still have all that has been given them already. There will be no tears, how can anyone cry when there has been so much to be thankful for? The only thing fans will feel in NE is an overwhelming sense of gratitude. We already feel that, we know everything to come at this point is just extra gravy. The irony in your statements is in how they show that its not about us fearing not getting any more gravy, instead they show about how much you fear it continuing.

  61. jagsfan1 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:00 pm
    NFL rigged easy schedule for yearly cakewalk to SuperBowl

    —————
    So the Patriots rigged the schedule to be playing the Jags for the AFC? And do you really want to say beating them was part of a cakewalk?

  62. philipdebin says:
    June 16, 2018 at 1:55 pm
    Can’t wait for the Jags to get another crack at this guy in the playoffs.

    ———————-
    You will probably get it too. Its not like the Steelers will be in your way.

  63. Wonder if Pats fans sorrow will be anywhere near what steelers and their fans have suffered at the hands of the Pats the last 17 yes.

    Wonder no more Steeler fans have seen three different coaches win Super Bowls…not just one with three different QB’s….not one. So being winners for a far longer period puts things in their proper perspective. You wouldn’t understand you are new to extended periods of success.

  64. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 12:58 pm
    So Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, is going to play for another seven years instead of ten more years?

    I can live with that.

    It’s going to be very enjoyable to drink the tears of little fanboys like this Twinkie when Tammy retires. Growing up spoiled by Brady you are totally unprepared for the sorrow you are about to endure………priceless

    /////////////////////////////

    Unfortunately we will not witness their tears. They will jump ship, change their username and become fans of the next winning team.

  65. schwamtek says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:25 am
    He’s not 21 anymore. If he gets seriously hurt there will be regret and alot of what ifs. Its a young mans game where a younger body can take more punishment. Great career, but for his and his family’s sake he should move on. He has nothing to prove or gain anymore.

    It’s called stat padding. You know, the term you pats fans incessantly harped on PM for when he signed with Denver? Ooooh,505 yards in a SB… that he LOST. Stat padding pure and simple.

  66. Retire Tom. Keep your mind and your health. You’ve given us enough. Lifelong Pat’s fan here and you can go Tom. You’ve given us a lot to be proud about and I hope he owns the team someday.

  67. denverscott says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:35 pm
    …………………………..
    It’s called stat padding. You know, the term you pats fans incessantly harped on PM for when he signed with Denver? Ooooh,505 yards in a SB… that he LOST. Stat padding pure and simple.
    ————————————————————————

    Yup, Tom Brady leading the Patriots to 12 AFC Championships, 8 Super Bowl appearances, and 5 Super Bowl wins, is absolutely stat padding; the kind of stat padding that any football fan would love to see out of their team’s QB. If he retires in 2 seasons, let us all hope he has stat padded his way to 10 Super Bowl starts as the Pats QB.

    I am certain that Peyton Manning fans everywhere equally enjoyed Peyton’s stat padding of a record 9 times one and done. And then, of course, there was Peyton’s Ooooh year of 2013 where he stat padded his way to 55 TD passes in the regular season, and a 43-8 loss in the Super Bowl.

  68. eddievortex says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:05 pm
    jagsfan1 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    _______________________________
    Explain please HOW the NFL rigs the schedule for New England.
    +++++++++++++
    Bye weeks are a good example. Eagles play four teams coming off bye weeks this year. When Patriots won super bowl they didn’t play one team coming off a bye week. This year they do play a team coming off a bye week and it just so happens to be patriots have a bye week as well.

  69. “We have no direct evidence that Mr Brady stuck a needle in a ball or ordered someone to do it”
    — The NFL, under oath, in federal court.

    Tee hee. 🙂 I love powning Patriot Hater arguments. 🙂

  70. “redeemerac says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:07 am

    As much as I dislike the Pats, I’m going to miss Brady when he’s gone. Manning, Brees, & Brady, we’ll look back on this time as the Golden Years of NFL Quarterbacking.”

    As opposed to the 90’s with Young, Elway, Favre, Aikman, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Bledsoe, and Cunningham? Maybe you didn’t have the privilege of following the NFL in the 90’s… it was much better, IMHO.

  71. patriotmaleorgy says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:57 pm
    eddievortex says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:05 pm
    jagsfan1 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    _______________________________
    Explain please HOW the NFL rigs the schedule for New England.
    +++++++++++++
    Bye weeks are a good example. Eagles play four teams coming off bye weeks this year. When Patriots won super bowl they didn’t play one team coming off a bye week. This year they do play a team coming off a bye week and it just so happens to be patriots have a bye week as well.

    ———-

    Funny how fans, most notably the silly Patriot Hater, think the schedule/refs are always rigged in favor of teams they don’t like. 🙂 Tee hee 🙂

  72. I am certain that Peyton Manning fans everywhere equally enjoyed Peyton’s stat padding of a record 9 times one and done. And then, of course, there was Peyton’s Ooooh year of 2013 where he stat padded his way to 55 TD passes in the regular season, and a 43-8 loss in the Super Bowl.

    ——
    All that hype…all those records… all that work choreographing celebrations… only to get clownstomped in the biggest game of all.

    You just HATE to see that.

    🙂

  73. schwamtek says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:25 am
    He’s not 21 anymore. If he gets seriously hurt there will be regret and alot of what ifs. Its a young mans game where a younger body can take more punishment. Great career, but for his and his family’s sake he should move on. He has nothing to prove or gain anymore.
    ——-
    Football is a tough game. You could very easily wonder what happens to that 21 year old who gets seriously hurt too…

  74. patriotmaleorgy says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:57 pm
    eddievortex says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:05 pm
    jagsfan1 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:00 pm

    _______________________________
    Explain please HOW the NFL rigs the schedule for New England.
    +++++++++++++
    Bye weeks are a good example. Eagles play four teams coming off bye weeks this year. When Patriots won super bowl they didn’t play one team coming off a bye week. This year they do play a team coming off a bye week and it just so happens to be patriots have a bye week as well.

    —————————-
    Bye weeks are a terrible example. For history so far teams coming off bye weeks are .521. Thats hardly a convicing edge.

  75. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:33 pm
    Wonder if Pats fans sorrow will be anywhere near what steelers and their fans have suffered at the hands of the Pats the last 17 yes.

    Wonder no more Steeler fans have seen three different coaches win Super Bowls…not just one with three different QB’s….not one. So being winners for a far longer period puts things in their proper perspective. You wouldn’t understand you are new to extended periods of success.

    ——————
    Steelers have never experienced it. Three short period spread out over several decades is a long way from 16 years of constant. Its not even unusual. Lots of teams have risen for short stretches of greatness, some more than others, but none have managed sustain it. Thats only the Patriots.

    But as far as you question whether “Pats fans sorrow will be anywhere near what steelers and their fans have suffered at the hands of the Pats the last 17 yers”? No, it wont be anywhere as close. As much as Pats fans have enjoyed greatness, the Steelers fans have enjoyed disappointment to a much larger degree. A lot of that is their fault because they tend to set themselves up for it. Lets face it, the whole reason you like to predict the end of the Pats as much as you do is because you are trying to convince your own self, not others. Its a need you gave that is driven by your fear and suspicion that its not ending anytime soon. And when it does, Pats fans will be feeling gratitude, not sorrow.

  76. It must be really sad to “anti-root” for a team or a player, To dedicate ones life to searching out stories about a team or a player you hate and spew out venom toward them.

    I mean to be honest I used to really hate the Yankees and the Canadians…….but then I turned 11 or 12 yrears old and kind of outgrew it.

  77. Steelers have never experienced it. Three short period spread out over several decades is a long way from 16 years of constant. Its not even unusual. Lots of teams have risen for short stretches of greatness, some more than others, but none have managed sustain it. Thats only the Patriots.

    I guess it easier to win with three different coaches and QB’s than to win with just one coach and Qb….really…..you must be a really tough kid for your teachers to reach….priceless.

  78. Oh man, Babe is going to be in total denial about this news. The other day he was telling me that the #32 ranked Patriots defense was “good” lol

  79. If he had played in the hard-hitting 70’s and 80’s he would have been done in his first game!

  80. I mean to be honest I used to really hate the Yankees and the Canadians…….but then I turned 11 or 12 yrears old and kind of outgrew it.

    It’s not something you can understand. Stamp collectors don’t usually elicit much reaction from their competitors…actually do they even have competitions…shed some light on that for us.

    Tommy is not long for the Pats….i hear the crying the gnashing of teeth. I am prepared i bought stock in tissues, diapers and dental supplies.

  81. Its amazing how the haters keep citing “facts” that couldn’t be further from the truth. The taping, of practices was proven to not be true and the filming of teams signals was not illegal just the position of the camera was wrong. He only destroyed his phone after he was told it wasn’t needed by the NFL, of course the haters prefer to believe the fraudger. His four game suspension was not upheld by a judge, what was upheld was the article 46 which gave the commissioner the right to do what ever the hell he wanted. Last but not least but certainly quite important is the fact that the NFL admitted in court that they had no evidence of any intentional cheating by the Patriots. We have discovered however that the NFL lacks any ability to understand 8th grade science.

  82. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 12:58 pm
    So Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, is going to play for another seven years instead of ten more years?

    I can live with that.

    It’s going to be very enjoyable to drink the tears of little fanboys like this Twinkie when Tammy retires. Growing up spoiled by Brady you are totally unprepared for the sorrow you are about to endure………priceless.

    ———-
    Sorrow we are about to endure? Why, did Kraft announce he hired Mike Tomlin?

  83. Sorrow we are about to endure? Why, did Kraft announce he hired Mike Tomlin

    What what a zinger….you must have burned thru two bags of Doritos to compose that retort. Steven Colbert could do better from his casket there fanboy. You must be losing sleep over Tomlin becoming coach when Cheating Bill quits cheatin….life is tough.

  84. Brady will retire the first time the Patriots aren’t in the Super Bowl. He doesn’t have the ambition and drive anymore to be playing for a rebuilding team. Who can blame him? He has nothing left to prove to anyone. He’s accomplished everything that a player can reasonably expect to in his career. He’ll end in up the broadcasting booth for one of the networks or maybe even on Monday Night Football. It’s not a bad way for him to step away from playing.
    ____________________________________________________________________________
    Oh. So Brady is going to the booth post retirement? You know this how? Did he tell you? There is nothing more precious than Brady fanboys who believe they have an intimate connection with him. Homer on, fanboys.

  85. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 4:34 pm
    Sorrow we are about to endure? Why, did Kraft announce he hired Mike Tomlin

    What what a zinger….you must have burned thru two bags of Doritos to compose that retort. Steven Colbert could do better from his casket there fanboy. You must be losing sleep over Tomlin becoming coach when Cheating Bill quits cheatin….life is tough.

    ——–

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you are just a 15 year old poster. If not, I actually feel bad for those around you

  86. Tom Brady*

    *Cheater
    *Suspended by the NFL
    *Knowingly broke the rules
    *Cried for a flag everytime he was touched
    *Tantrum Diva
    *Got rid of teammates that they were a threat to him
    *Validity of 5 SB wins highly questionable.

    There, fixed it for you. Am I lying?

  87. Look these guys in their 30` s talk about mid 40` s and it’s the eye opening monotony of what another freaking training camp? And that’s if your healthy.
    Kids family other commitments?
    All I know is from a pure winning stand point, and ive seen em all since the 50`s, he is the goat.

  88. The same people that hate the GOAT #12 are the same ones that were traumatized election night !

  89. You had a glorious career. One of the greatest to ever play.i don’t think you cheated. But made a bad choice. Its time to call it a career. All good things come to a end

  90. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 3:43 pm
    Steelers have never experienced it. Three short period spread out over several decades is a long way from 16 years of constant. Its not even unusual. Lots of teams have risen for short stretches of greatness, some more than others, but none have managed sustain it. Thats only the Patriots.

    I guess it easier to win with three different coaches and QB’s than to win with just one coach and Qb….really…..you must be a really tough kid for your teachers to reach….priceless.

    ——————
    It was you yourself that tried to decribe those three fleeting moments as a single stretch of success because you are jealous of it and trying to come up with a way to claim the Steelers did a better one. But that argument fell apart on you. Now you are trying to repackage those three fleeting moments as a feat bigger than sustained success, the thing that Pittsburg just cant seem to do. But if you really believec that you would not have led with your first story. And if you didnt kniw your first sotry had fallen apart you would not have tried to float this one. And in any event it doesn’t matter because the real question is whether you can get by the Jags this year. Can you? How about KC? And Tennesee is going to be a lot better too. If you didnt have Browns, Bengals, and Ravens in your division you would even have to be worrying about the playoffs.

  91. Love all the basement HATERZZZZ. Trying to predict when the GOAT TB-12 will retire, and what will become of PATS NATION !! When he retires this Pats fan will not cry as the GOAT TB-12 has given us 2 decades of dominance. I will thank him for all he’s done, and wish him well as we rebuild.

  92. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 4:34 pm
    Sorrow we are about to endure? Why, did Kraft announce he hired Mike Tomlin

    What what a zinger
    ————————
    Yeah it was pretty good.

  93. . If you didnt have Browns, Bengals, and Ravens in your division you would even have to be worrying about the playoffs.

    Says the fan of a team playing the Jets Bills and Phins….you just revealed what a homer you are. The last team other than the pats to go to a super bowl from that group of cream puffs was the Phins……about 30 years before you were born…..you are as obtuse as the argument you can support…..nice try but fake Patriot B>S>

  94. Nofoolnodrool says:

    It’s not something you can understand. Stamp collectors don’t usually elicit much reaction from their competitors…actually do they even have competitions…shed some light on that for us.
    —————————————————————

    You make no sense

    Go Pats

  95. Have you read his book and read about the TB12 method? It’s literally working out with body weight and resistance bands, with some messages a few times a week.

    ___

    Look up Drew Brees and TRX…..same kind of stuff. QB’s dont need to be bulky, they need more long lean muscles. Theres a reason hes still playing well this late in his career too.

  96. whywerule says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:45 pm
    denverscott says:
    June 16, 2018 at 2:35 pm
    …………………………..
    It’s called stat padding. You know, the term you pats fans incessantly harped on PM for when he signed with Denver? Ooooh,505 yards in a SB… that he LOST. Stat padding pure and simple.
    ————————————————————————
    Yup, Tom Brady leading the Patriots to 12 AFC Championships, 8 Super Bowl appearances, and 5 Super Bowl wins, is absolutely stat padding; the kind of stat padding that any football fan would love to see out of their team’s QB. If he retires in 2 seasons, let us all hope he has stat padded his way to 10 Super Bowl starts as the Pats QB.

    I am certain that Peyton Manning fans everywhere equally enjoyed Peyton’s stat padding of a record 9 times one and done. And then, of course, there was Peyton’s Ooooh year of 2013 where he stat padded his way to 55 TD passes in the regular season, and a 43-8 loss in the Super Bowl.

    —————-

    Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?

  97. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 6:29 pm
    . If you didnt have Browns, Bengals, and Ravens in your division you would even have to be worrying about the playoffs.

    Says the fan of a team playing the Jets Bills and Phins….you just revealed what a homer you are. The last team other than the pats to go to a super bowl from that group of cream puffs was the Phins……about 30 years before you were born…..you are as obtuse as the argument you can support…..nice try but fake Patriot B>S>

    ————————
    Who cares about 30 years ago, we are talking anout current times. Because the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets were 22-26 last year while the Bengals, Ravens, and Browns were 15-32 I think I can talk plenty about your creampuff division. Heck, one one the Dolphins wins was against the Steelers even so maybe they are tougher than you suggest, or are the Steelers losing to creampuffs? Its one or the other.

    You dodged my question whether the Steelers can get by the Jags this year. I suppose that’s a no then.

  98. Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?

    It says nothing, they are not on the field at the same time.

    How about how they did vs common teams
    Try the SB, Manning was embarrassing vs the Seahawks
    Brady destroyed that D
    And won

  99. It’s so funny the crybabies try and say they are not jealous of the Patriots

    But look at all the negative comments about Brady or the Patriots on this article it reeeeeeeeks of jealously

    If the headlines read the same but was any other QB name there may be 25 comments
    But it’s about Brady/Patriots and the jealous crybabies come running

  100. Who cares about 30 years ago, we are talking anout current times. Because the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets were 22-26 last year while the Bengals, Ravens, and Browns were 15-32 I think I can talk plenty about your creampuff division. Heck, one one the Dolphins wins was against the Steelers even so maybe they are tougher than you suggest, or are the Steelers losing to creampuffs? Its one or the other.

    You dodged my question whether the Steelers can get by the Jags this year. I suppose that’s a no then.

    0

    So when the facts don’t support your spin you think it’s cool to change the time frame to support the spin….typical Pat fanboy. Where did the Jags all of a sudden enter the argument…..oh you are trying to rub in a loss…sophisticated diversion for the school bus….face the facts you are a stone cold homer that’s about to switch teams when Brady leaves…..a front runner…..a loser.

  101. I know most here are trolls / dont understand the game. But you all understand AT THE TIME Jimmy G was going to be a Free Agent and get huge money, as he eventually did. While Brady was playing at an elite level and going to and winning multiple super bowls and winning MVPs. Should the Pats have traded Brady, less money and a sure thing for another 2-3 years, or possible potential and a lot more money? Pats made the right choice, just bad timing with the expiring contracts, and they could’ve got a little more for Jimmy G.

  102. Flash1287 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 7:51 pm
    Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?

    It says nothing, they are not on the field at the same time.

    How about how they did vs common teams
    Try the SB, Manning was embarrassing vs the Seahawks
    Brady destroyed that D
    And won

    ———–

    Common teams in two different seasons? There is no such thing. The fact is Manning had to score more points than Brady to win their matchup and vice versa.

  103. Any team in the NFC West would easily win the AFC East if they traded spots with the Patriots. Cupcake division

  104. PresidentTrumpIsRightRespectYourCountryAndFlag says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:21 am
    Greatest system QB ever!

    I don’t know which is a dumber statement; calling Brady a system QB or supporting a guy in office that tweets out support of “men” who openly support white supremacists. Look up Corey Stewart if you don’t believe me. You trump supporters can’t claim to not be racist anymore

  105. Ted Murph, great post, sir. Brady was drafted as a catcher by the Expos and he’s a scratch golfer and they call him unathletic.

    Years ago I was fortunate enough to play UM’s golf course and Brady was one of the guys in the clubhouse. Even then he struck me as a go getter, respectful and hard working.

    Envy is an ugly emotion.

  106. Nofoolnodrool says:
    June 16, 2018 at 8:16 pm
    Who cares about 30 years ago, we are talking anout current times. Because the Dolphins, Bills, and Jets were 22-26 last year while the Bengals, Ravens, and Browns were 15-32 I think I can talk plenty about your creampuff division. Heck, one one the Dolphins wins was against the Steelers even so maybe they are tougher than you suggest, or are the Steelers losing to creampuffs? Its one or the other.

    You dodged my question whether the Steelers can get by the Jags this year. I suppose that’s a no then.

    0

    So when the facts don’t support your spin you think it’s cool to change the time frame to support the spin….typical Pat fanboy. Where did the Jags all of a sudden enter the argument…..oh you are trying to rub in a loss…sophisticated diversion for the school bus….face the facts you are a stone cold homer that’s about to switch teams when Brady leaves…..a front runner…..a loser.

    ——————
    Well as far as me saying how the teams play in the present being more meaningful to how tough the division is in the present than how they might have played 30 years ago, yeah. I do say that. As far as trying to pick convenient time frames thats you not me thats trying to use numbers from 30 years ago to support your narrative about how things are the present.

    And I bring up the Jags because thats the team the Steelers sit behind. What you call ‘a loss’ was actually a mid round exit. If you count all the mouth running by Steelers fans then its a humiliating one too. And since the Steelers are unable to get by the Jags its ridiculous for any of their fans to still be obsessing on the Patriots. The Steelers are even looking over their shoulder at the Chiefs and Titans these days. Heck, they might have to worry about the Jets, Bills, and Dolphins. Again.

  107. Patriot way rules: I’ll tell you what happens to “patriot nation” when Brady retires; your fan base will be cut in half and the message boards won’t have people like you linking every FA to the patriots anymore

  108. isithockeyseasonyet says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:27 pm
    Patriot way rules: I’ll tell you what happens to “patriot nation” when Brady retires; your fan base will be cut in half and the message boards won’t have people like you linking every FA to the patriots anymore

    ————————
    The Patriots fans in YOUR city might switch allegence, but the New England base has been loyal for decades through the good and the bad. Nothing really changes for them.

  109. Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?

    ——-

    Actually it says nothing about Brady. Where was Manning the other 7 times Brady won the AFCCG? I’ll tell you – Home . After getting eliminated in the first round most likely.

  110. stubborndata says:
    June 16, 2018 at 1:46 pm
    Ever since it was revealed that Tom is a filthy fan of Donald Trump, his career has been in a tailspin. No coincidence, to be honest.

    I understand you have been under really bad trauma since election night will some NFL help you cross that bridge to physical and mental health ?

  111. jimmylikesthat says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:23 am
    If he’s on HGH why isn’t his forehead enormous like that former QB in all the commercials?

    Because Brady payed for hair plugs, come on man he was balding in his mid 20’s then all the sudden he comes back looking like justin bieber lmao. He may not have taken HGH but he damn sure paid for hair implants.

  112. stubborndata says:
    June 16, 2018 at 1:46 pm
    Ever since it was revealed that Tom is a filthy fan of Donald Trump, his career has been in a tailspin. No coincidence, to be honest.

    —————————
    You might not have realized Brady’s career rides on football games won not on his political views. And to that end he has gone to the Superbowl every year since the day he got sighted with that hat. I think by tailspin you mean he has been spiraling upwards and from your angle you can only see his tail. Trump mght be getting into your head a little too much too if that angle was all you have been able to think about. Try relaxing, letting all that stuff go, and enjoying some football. Its really refreshing.

  113. Zero rings, zero championship games and zero playoffs without cheating. Take away the cheating and Tammy is just another dink n dunk dime a dozen system QB. Cold. Hard. Facts.

  114. It is remarkable how sensitive and defensive Patriots fans are, especially of their Precious Tom. Do you think he cares that people say bad things about him? Do you think he cares that you defend him? Too funny

    I’m a Seahawks fan. There are endless dumb things people say to put down my favorite team, or the players. Never do I feel the need to argue with the people who make such comments; in fact, I laugh at the better jokes, even ones made on false premises. I don’t feel personally insulted if someone makes fun of Russell Wilson, or claims that Pete Carroll is a cheater (Pete rhymes with cheat, it must be true!! Duhhh). It has zero effect on my life or my self-image.

    Geez, now that I think about it, I feel pretty sad for you Patties. Buck up, little campers! Things are gonna be al-right.

  115. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    June 16, 2018 at 7:32 pm
    —————————
    Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?
    —————————————————————

    One thing it says, not exactly about Tom Brady, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time, or Peyton Manning, arguably among the top five QBs of all-time, is that Tom Brady teams always played tougher regular season schedules than Peyton Manning teams as the home team won all of those AFC Championship games (in the Colts** case, with help from piped in noise and AC adjustments).

    And, frankly, given that the Pats have had a bulls-eye on their backs for almost 20 years that is not surprising. Every team that plays the Pats in a season, circles that game as their Super Bowl. At least since 2003, and maybe 2001, the Pats have always been the team to beat. Teams certainly respected Manning, but the bulls-eye treatment is not something Peyton Manning teams ever faced 16 regular season games per year.

    Fair enough, we true Pats fans love being the team to beat year in, and year out.

    You would know all that if you were, you know, a Pats fan instead of a Jets fan.

  116. “When the police found a roomful of stuff at the Eagles training camp a few years ago, the story got buried quick, party (sic) because of the tragedy of Andy Reid’s son”.

    “Steroids found in the presence of Garrett Reid’s room when he died”.

    Well, was it Garrett Reid’s room or a room at the Eagles training camp? You managed to contradict your own theory, not to mention your total speculation that the Philadelphia police were involved in some cover-up. And you’re the guy who’s supposed to be the big police supporter.

  117. aj66shanghai says:
    June 17, 2018 at 5:20 am
    I’m a Seahawks fan. There are endless dumb things people say to put down my favorite team, or the players. Never do I feel the need to argue with the people who make such comments……

    Geez, now that I think about it, I feel pretty sad for you Patties. Buck up, little campers! Things are gonna be al-right.
    ——————————————-

    Geez, one year dynasty Seahawks fan, you don’t feel the need to argue with people, but you are entirely comfortable referring to at least one opposing fan base with a derogatory name.

    28-24, still hurt bro? Buck up!

  118. drrichardrydze says:
    June 17, 2018 at 2:21 am
    Zero rings, zero championship games and zero playoffs without cheating. Take away the cheating and Tammy is just another dink n dunk dime a dozen system QB. Cold. Hard. Facts.

    —-

    Your argument is literally the exact opposite of “cold hard fact”, but, enjoy.

    We’ll be over here engaging in reality while you ponder your pretend scenarios…

  119. Tom Brady*
    *Cheater
    *Suspended by the NFL
    *Knowingly broke the rules
    *Cried for a flag everytime he was touched
    *Tantrum Diva
    *Got rid of teammates that they were a threat to him
    *Validity of 5 SB wins highly questionable.
    There, fixed it for you. Am I lying?
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Yes I died pretty, you are in fact a liar ! In fact everything that you wrote was untrue !!
    ________________________________________________________________________

    Oh really. Are you serious right now? Pray to God, Pats fanboy, what was untrue? I guess you missed the memo on Prince Tom’s suspension. You are dismissed, Homer!

  120. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    June 16, 2018 at 7:32 pm
    —————————
    Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?
    ——
    It says nothing more that’s already been said about the 5 time World Champion, 4 time Super Bowl MVP, reigning and 3 time league MVP, winningest QB in the history of football, and the man who all intelligent football fans consider the greatest QB to ever grace an NFL football field with his presence.

    Any questions or is that clear enough for ya?

    🙂

  121. pointtwopsiistheissue says:
    June 17, 2018 at 3:39 pm
    Tom Brady the GOAT, suspended because the NFL didn’t understand basic physics, and apparently neither does I died pretty!!

    ——-
    He was suspended because certain other owners knew their teams (and by association their fans) are too wussy to put in the work and effort to beat the back to back AFC and 5 time World Champion Patriots so they cried and begged the league to help them do it. And it backfired. Tee hee 🙂

    Still makes me giggle. 🙂

  122. Geez, one year dynasty Seahawks fan, you don’t feel the need to argue with people, but you are entirely comfortable referring to at least one opposing fan base with a derogatory name.

    28-24, still hurt bro? Buck up!

    ********************

    That was a pretty great game. I was hoping for a different outcome, but in no way did it “hurt” me. I was visiting my family and had a pretty good time with them, during and after the game. We got mexican food that night.

    The year before, I was in Beijing and went to a bar full of Broncos fans to see the game. That was fun too. The game ended around noon I think, and it was a bright, sunny day, and not as cold as usual.

    Not sure how “Patties” is derogatory. Condescending, maybe. Nor can I follow the logic that defending one’s team to internet strangers somehow equates to calling someone a name. You do you though, bro.

  123. idiedpretty says:
    June 17, 2018 at 3:08 pm
    Tom Brady*
    *Cheater
    *Suspended by the NFL
    *Knowingly broke the rules
    *Cried for a flag everytime he was touched
    *Tantrum Diva
    *Got rid of teammates that they were a threat to him
    *Validity of 5 SB wins highly questionable.
    There, fixed it for you. Am I lying?
    _______________________________________________________________________
    Yes I died pretty, you are in fact a liar ! In fact everything that you wrote was untrue !!
    ________________________________________________________________________

    Oh really. Are you serious right now? Pray to God, Pats fanboy, what was untrue? I guess you missed the memo on Prince Tom’s suspension. You are dismissed, Homer!

    ————————-
    The truth is in the middle here guys. Ill give you that his name is Tom Brady you got that oart right. And the NFL did suspend him but not for cheating (court finding was that there was no evidence of tampering in the first place), the suspension was to uphold the commisioners powers to do how he pleased (more on that to come later at the next CBA negotiation). The rest of what you wrote was false. Although your point about the other guy of being a homer because he claimed none of it was true is well taken, you expose your own self as a hater running a narrative when you say all of it was true. The irony in your accusations is that giving false info to back your claims is in itself a form of cheating.

  124. How many articles like this are we going to get? The guy is 40, I think we are all aware that he’s not going to play another 18 years.

  125. walker1191 says:
    June 17, 2018 at 8:32 pm
    How many articles like this are we going to get? The guy is 40, I think we are all aware that he’s not going to play another 18 years.

    ———————
    The Patriots plan for succession was to get a QB this year or next year, next year being the better timing. Assuming they want that QB to have two years of grooming that would mean their current thoughts are that Brady is three more then out. What happens after that is anyones guess drpending on how well things come together with the successor and of course there is the very off chance is Brady is still going freak of nature, but the Pats are better off assuming its three years likely but possibly 2, and very unlikely 4.

  126. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    June 16, 2018 at 1:18 pm

    How selfish of Brady to contemplate retirement less than a year after insisting the organization trade the future. Not a good look from him.

    ===================================================

    That doesn’t make any sense. Everyone understands that he’s an older player and even so he’s one who takes great care of himself. He’s got a couple years left, at least, the team understands that. And they have a magic QB “system”, right? Sounds like you still are having trouble making up your mind. Not a good look from you.

  127. denverscott says:

    June 16, 2018 at 2:35 pm

    schwamtek says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:25 am

    It’s called stat padding. You know, the term you pats fans incessantly harped on PM for when he signed with Denver? Ooooh,505 yards in a SB… that he LOST. Stat padding pure and simple.

    ======================

    I guess you missed the part when the stacked Peyton led Denver team got completely smoked in the Super Bowl against Seattle. “Stat padding” only occurs when a team is either way ahead or way behind and the defense stops playing as hard. Neither scenario applies to Brady’s SBs which all were close games. Please learn the term before you use it.

  128. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    June 16, 2018 at 9:18 pm

    Flash1287 says:
    June 16, 2018 at 7:51 pm
    Yet Brady is still 1-3 against Peyton in the biggest games they played, the AFCC games including the one in 2013. What does that say about Brady?

    It says nothing, they are not on the field at the same time.

    How about how they did vs common teams
    Try the SB, Manning was embarrassing vs the Seahawks
    Brady destroyed that D
    And won

    ———–

    Common teams in two different seasons? There is no such thing. The fact is Manning had to score more points than Brady to win their matchup and vice versa.

    ===============================

    Brady took more QB hits than any QB in any game during the 2012 season ( 20 total ). He was facing a much tougher defense than Peyton and yet still came pretty close. And that was without Gronk. It was a tough loss against a great Denver team, no shame in that.

    And you points matchup is pretty iffy, as its hard to win a Super Bowl when your QB (Peyton) has 3 turnovers.

  129. So you believe that they suspended Brady & upheld the appeal when they knew for a fact he did nothing wrong? You seriously believe this? Cheaters lie about what they do. Over and over. Until there is concrete evidence and they are caught once and for all. He could have admitted what he did, apologize and did all he could to make amends. But instead he stuck to his lies, let others take the blame, tried to convince people he was railroaded and this upstanding guy who would never. He has no remorse which is why respect is difficult for so many to hold for the talent he does really have. It’s why he’s never going to live it down. Playing stupid would have even been a better choice. He has no idea how many people would have been upset but respected him for being honest and trying to somehow fix what he did. He continued to try to beat the system and fight a battle he had no business in fighting because of what he did. There ended up being more damage to him because of the continued lies and lack of any remorse. He could be the greatest guy in the world but the second he committed a wrong he had to own it when caught. He didn’t. He still hasn’t. He never will. He blew his own reputation and list a lot because of it. He doesn’t have to care so he doesn’t. That’s the arrogance. I get standing by your team but not when they do things they have been clearly caught doing and is wrong on so many levels

  130. Lifetime Ban For Kneelers says:
    June 16, 2018 at 9:34 am
    The Cheating window was finally slammed shut, locked, and plywood covered by Nick Foles.
    Slinker away and good riddance…..the game will be more credible without you….and BB…and shady Bobby Kraft
    =====================
    It’s funny that fans actually believe this. As long as the current fraud is running the show that will never be the case.

  131. @dynastypolice
    That’s a lotta words with no real argument. Where are the PSI logs when the promised league transparency? Why were Goodells Attys caught needlessly Lying in court and to the public? Why were other teams “caught “ with low PSI not punished? Why did all scientific outlets of note who weren’t paid by NFL disagree with Exponent/Wells? I’ll save you time. Because the NFL is terrible at running investigations. Proven time and time again, indisputably so.

  132. bradjames33160 says:
    June 18, 2018 at 12:17 pm
    while the 49ers regain their 80’s form, the Patriots will too. Isn’t it funny how these things go?
    ==============

    80’s Pats were actually half decent. Only a few under .500 seasons that decade

  133. Mark Brunell-retired at 41
    Earl Morall-retired at 42
    Doug Flutie-retired at 43
    Vinny Testaverda-retired at 44
    Warren Moon-retired at 44
    George Blanda-retired at age 48
    And of course Brett Favre and Peyton Manning (who actually may be a cheater, unless we believe his wife needed HGH)

    ———-

    point taken but none of those guys were 16 game starters like Brady. Brunell and most of those guys held a clipboard at the end.

  134. Gordie Howe played NHL hockey until the age of 51. If he can do it then Brady can play until he’s 45. And don’t insult me and millions of hockey fans by saying that NFL football is tougher. Ever been checked into the boards by a big guy skating at full speed? Believe me, it hurts!

  135. dynastypolice says:
    June 18, 2018 at 5:06 pm
    So you believe that they suspended Brady & upheld the appeal when they knew for a fact he did nothing wrong? You seriously believe this? Cheaters lie about what they do. Over and over. Until there is concrete evidence and they are caught once and for all. He could have admitted what he did, apologize and did all he could to make amends. But instead he stuck to his lies, let others take the blame, tried to convince people he was railroaded and this upstanding guy who would never. He has no remorse which is why respect is difficult for so many to hold for the talent he does really have. It’s why he’s never going to live it down. Playing stupid would have even been a better choice. He has no idea how many people would have been upset but respected him for being honest and trying to somehow fix what he did. He continued to try to beat the system and fight a battle he had no business in fighting because of what he did. There ended up being more damage to him because of the continued lies and lack of any remorse. He could be the greatest guy in the world but the second he committed a wrong he had to own it when caught. He didn’t. He still hasn’t. He never will. He blew his own reputation and list a lot because of it. He doesn’t have to care so he doesn’t. That’s the arrogance. I get standing by your team but not when they do things they have been clearly caught doing and is wrong on so many levels

    —————————
    They absolutely suspended Brady with full knowledge he did noting wrong. They even took it to court to establish they had the authority to do that. The reason for doing that had nothing to do with Brady ir anyones guilt or innocence, it was to uphold that the CBA granted such powers to the commisioner. They know thats wrongand that they used them wrong but that was their point. Because now this issue is a bargaining chip for the next CBA. In the end they want out from under liability for long term health issues (expensive costs against the bottom line) and they want bigger chunks of the pie coming with the new revenue sources they are developing. All the guys jumping around with their petty sports hate are simply helping Goodell position himself to get a better deal for the owners, which is in fact his job.

    Its established fact that there was zero evidence of any tampering in the first place. As much as guys trying to cling to a cheating claim like to say Brady failed to cooperate, the fact is there was never anything to cooperate on. There is no info for him to give up on how it did happen if it didn’t happen. Its like if the cops came to your house and demanded you speak to how you robbed the bank down the street and the whole thing is news to you. What can you say? And especially if it later comes out that they cant establish that there is any money missing, and there is no info of a robbery ever happening. Yet the cops are still saying you must be guilty because you did’t provide your info on it. Thats how ridiculous the claims against Brady are.

  136. Its established fact that there was zero evidence of any tampering in the first place. As much as guys trying to cling to a cheating claim like to say Brady failed to cooperate, the fact is there was never anything to cooperate on. There is no info for him to give up on how it did happen if it didn’t happen. Its like if the cops came to your house and demanded you speak to how you robbed the bank down the street and the whole thing is news to you. What can you say? And especially if it later comes out that they cant establish that there is any money missing, and there is no info of a robbery ever happening. Yet the cops are still saying you must be guilty because you did’t provide your info on it. Thats how ridiculous the claims against Brady are.
    ======================================================

    And that explains the ‘deflater’ nickname, the destruction of evidence….the ‘judge’ being at the Hamptons celebrating after being paid off by RK…etc.?

    Come on now, we know you don’t believe a word you’re saying here sport. And you don’t even need to protect the Pats,,why? You’re a victim as much and everyone else by what they’ve done. You’ve invested your valuable time and $ being a fan and supporting them and now they’ve spit in your face out of greed and total disregard for the integrity of the sport. Now their legacy is everyone’s first thought and words moving forward about the Pats will be they cheated and nothing under BB counts in public opinion.

  137. dynastypolice says:

    June 19, 2018 at 1:07 pm

    Its established fact that there was zero evidence of any tampering in the first place. As much as guys trying to cling to a cheating claim like to say Brady failed to cooperate, the fact is there was never anything to cooperate on. There is no info for him to give up on how it did happen if it didn’t happen. Its like if the cops came to your house and demanded you speak to how you robbed the bank down the street and the whole thing is news to you. What can you say? And especially if it later comes out that they cant establish that there is any money missing, and there is no info of a robbery ever happening. Yet the cops are still saying you must be guilty because you did’t provide your info on it. Thats how ridiculous the claims against Brady are.
    ======================================================

    And that explains the ‘deflater’ nickname, the destruction of evidence….the ‘judge’ being at the Hamptons celebrating after being paid off by RK…etc.?

    Come on now, we know you don’t believe a word you’re saying here sport. And you don’t even need to protect the Pats,,why? You’re a victim as much and everyone else by what they’ve done. You’ve invested your valuable time and $ being a fan and supporting them and now they’ve spit in your face out of greed and total disregard for the integrity of the sport. Now their legacy is everyone’s first thought and words moving forward about the Pats will be they cheated and nothing under BB counts in public opinion.

    =====================================================

    Uh, its not illegal to deflate footballs, its only illegal to do it after ref inspection. The nickname is irrelevant. And what “destruction” of evidence? NFL said they didn’t need phone, and Brady provided all electronic data they asked for. He had serious privacy concerns, as proven by the his private emails being leaked (why do we know what pool cover he prefers?). If your concerned about “evidence”, of which the NFL has ZERO subpoena power over, why did the NFL refuse equal discovery for Brady’s side? Why did Goodell continually lie about Wells’ independence (proven by NFL being allowed to edit the report and by Wells’ colleague, Lorin Reisner, representing the NFL at the appeal)? It makes no sense. And you never address the mysteriously missing PSI logs that Goodell has stowed away. Do you honestly believe that if they helped the NFL’s $20million case, they would have released it?

    Who cares about where the judge attended a party? Your steadfast refusal to deal in the facts of the case is telling, sport.

  138. dynastypolice says:
    June 19, 2018 at 1:07 pm
    Its established fact that there was zero evidence of any tampering in the first place. As much as guys trying to cling to a cheating claim like to say Brady failed to cooperate, the fact is there was never anything to cooperate on. There is no info for him to give up on how it did happen if it didn’t happen. Its like if the cops came to your house and demanded you speak to how you robbed the bank down the street and the whole thing is news to you. What can you say? And especially if it later comes out that they cant establish that there is any money missing, and there is no info of a robbery ever happening. Yet the cops are still saying you must be guilty because you did’t provide your info on it. Thats how ridiculous the claims against Brady are.
    ======================================================

    And that explains the ‘deflater’ nickname, the destruction of evidence….the ‘judge’ being at the Hamptons celebrating after being paid off by RK…etc.?

    ———————
    Thanks for bringing those up as they are perfect examples of how you are basing your claims on false information. There is no one with the nickname of the deflator. That word was used in a single time in a single text that was in Bird’s (that was McNallys nickname not deflator) that was written way back before this person started working with the team and therfore long before he ever had access to game balls. It was blown completely out of context by people needing a way to make something out of nothing. But dont take my word for this look it up.

    And your claim Kraft paid off the judge is entirely your own fabrication based on no edidence (seems to be a common theme huh?). Not based on nothing was the judges ruling with went into great detail touching on all the applicable points of law and what parts of the testimony supported his finding that there was no evidrnce of tampering in the first place. (Read the finding with its 18 pages of points that supported it and you can see all this). Most telling of those as when he asked both Goodell and Pash if they had any evidence at all to support a claim that tampering had taken place and both had to admit that they had none. (Read the transcript and you can see all of this)

    Also vacking the judge’s finding is Goodell himself, he had to in order to take his next step. In his appeal he stipulated Brady’s innocence with his claim that it did not preclude him from suspending anyhow because the CBA said he could. That was the real end game here. Thats what turned this into something the NFLPA needs to desperately negotiate back next time around, which means they will be forced to give up concessions. The fact Brady was innocent actually helps Goodell for how it illustrates the sheer depth of power the current CBA granted him.

    So really you are just tossing random accusations that you cant back, but in answer I have cited back to you real evidence that you can eadily look up and see as to why you are mistaken.

  139. @Tortellini genie says:
    June 19, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    So the text messages with the equipment guys don’t count, correct? He cheated and was punished, this speaks for itself. Of course as a Pats fan, you’ll argue regardless, but as I said, it’s your your fault what they’ve done, you’re a victim…no fan deserves this. Tell me, what other fan base on these sites is in perpetual defense mode about there team cheating…wait, let me answer..that would be none. Good luck.

  140. dynastypolice says:
    June 19, 2018 at 3:29 pm
    @Tortellini genie says:
    June 19, 2018 at 2:09 pm

    So the text messages with the equipment guys don’t count, correct? He cheated and was punished, this speaks for itself. Of course as a Pats fan, you’ll argue regardless, but as I said, it’s your your fault what they’ve done, you’re a victim…no fan deserves this. Tell me, what other fan base on these sites is in perpetual defense mode about there team cheating…wait, let me answer..that would be none. Good luck.

    ——————
    As I told you above that single text using that word one time was before he started working with the team. Also lets add that this was not a text between him and Brady. That fact has nothing to do with who is a fan of what team, its just the truth and its verifiable if you cared to look it up. Your attempt to make it sound like it was some ongoing back and forth with Brady is utter nonsense. You can make up all the stuff you want but thats just meaningless fantasies from a hater. I have cited my facts and their sources for for them that you can look up and verify. In response you keep just making up stuff and try saying it means something. You say you cant argue with a Pats fan, and thats true if you are just making up obvious lies. You cant. Likewise no one can reason with a hater so short on integrity that he would argue that chickens have lips if it supported his narrative. Ive cited my sources, why cant you?

  141. 10. The text exchange Jastremski had with an unknown person regarding Brady being angry about the footballs he was using.
    John Jastremski: Tom is acting crazy about balls
    John Jastremski: Ready to vomit!
    Unknown: K
    Unknown: He saying there not good enough??
    John Jastremski: Tell later

  142. 8. The text in which McNally says he’s going to get revenge on Tom by inflating the balls so much that they become “f…..n balloon[s].”
    McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a f…..n balloon

  143. Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker
    McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week
    5. The text in which an angry McNally says “The only thing deflating [on Sunday]… is [Tom Brady’s] passing rating.”
    McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating
    4. The exchange in which McNally literally refers to himself as “the deflator.”
    McNally: You working
    Jastremski: Yup
    McNally: Nice dude….jimmy needs some kicks….lets make a deal…..come on help the deflator
    3. And then makes a joke about letting the world know about whatever they’re doing.
    McNally: Chill buddy im just f….n with you ….im not going to espn……..yet
    2. The text exchange between Brady and Jastremski in which Brady tried to calm Jastremski after people started whispering about deflategate.
    Brady: “You good Jonny boy?”

    Brady: “You doing good?”

    Jastremski: “Still nervous; so far so good though”
    1. The text Jastremski sent Brady just hours after he clicked on a NBC Sports Pro Football Talk about the “deflategate” controversy.
    Jastremski: Call me when you get a second

  144. @dynastypolice

    And where are the PSI logs after Goodell promised transparency?

    Why no punishment for teams since 2014 that either have had low PSI or have admitted to tampering with footballs?

  145. @dynastypolice

    By “speaking for themselves”, they certainly don’t say anything about any post ref inspection PSI related rule breaking. Indisputable.

    You haven’t answered any of my questions and you went on at length about the texts with no actual hard evidence. And that’s aside from the problems with the science and the NFL’s public lying and massive conflicts of interest. I think its time you moved on.

  146. What a die hard you are, and for what? They speak for themselves in that they couldn’t be any more obvious short of a copious confession. The texts are the evidence, and blaming the NFL or anyone else won’t change a thing. Just Stop!

  147. dynastypolice says:

    June 21, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    What a die hard you are, and for what? They speak for themselves in that they couldn’t be any more obvious short of a copious confession. The texts are the evidence, and blaming the NFL or anyone else won’t change a thing. Just Stop!

    ======================

    Another non answer. “Speak for themselves” doesn’t mean anything when the texts say nothing about rule breaking. There is no rule against preparing footballs before a game. You conveniently omitted the context of the illegally over inflated footballs by the referees in the Jets game which explains a lot. And its furthered by the illegal over-inflation of footballs during halftime in the ’14 AFCC game by the same officials who kicked off Deflategate in the first place. Its comical how dumb they were.

    And you have nothing to say about the junk science and the lying to the court and the public. You chose to avoid a ton of questionable actions by the NFL. It takes a more vivid imagination to believe in Deflategate than to disbelieve it. The facts of the case and the laws of nature just don’t give it any credibility.

    And what a Goodell die hard you are, and for what? He has bungled just about every league investigation he has laid hands on. His track record is horrendous. He doesn’t throw touchdowns, he has no personality, he doesn’t care about due process, he doesn’t care about player safety, he doesn’t care about honesty and yet people still back him. Its just …. weird.

  148. Well at least one person agrees with you, and that would be you. You are a Pats fan. The vivid imagination is to interpret the texts as anything else but the obvious, they specifically reference deflating footballs and being nervous about being caught. I know you don’t believe what you’re saying, so will leave it at that….just Stop already, you look ridiculous.

  149. @dynastypolice

    Non answer again. Which text actually says they were “nervous about being caught”. I’ll save you time. Zero. They were “nervous” because Brady was furious about the illegally overinflated footballs from the Jets game. Either the equip guys handed over underinflated balls or the refs mis-measured them, either way, the refs illegally over-inflated them and Brady could tell the difference and blamed the equipment guys who in turn were mad because they thought it was the referees fault. Read the Wells report and how it was analyzed.

    And the balls ended up at all different PSI’s so how in the world would that help Brady if every ball was different? If those guys were so “nervous”, why would they have done such a terrible job at putting the footballs at the right PSI? And the science doesn’t add up.

    You still have no response, you just spill the same opinions with no supporting evidence. No response to the public lying, conflicts of interest, debunked science, etc. I don’t want to keep eating your lunch, but you keep handing it to me.

  150. The texts are right there in black and white. They (including Brady) were nervous when it started blowing up in the news. Again, I get it…you’re a Pats fan, correct? There is no debate here, you’ve presented spin to suit your narrative while I’ve provided concrete facts in black and white herein. Neither of us will ever agree with the other, so there is no point in continuing here. Go ahead with your next blurbage that you yourself do not even believe in the name of your beloved Pats, because you need the last word. Believe me, I wish this wasn’t the case, I’m a huge Brady fan as we attended the same high school…and now I no longer have bragging rights without being shot down….just like you are on these sites. All your pre-fabbed arguments are from much practice dealing with this sad truth, and will always be the case moving forward. Is it worth it for you? Think about it…you’ll be okay, it’s not like you’re on the team or paid by them, right?

  151. It doesn’t really matter, the truth keeps marching on whether you believe it or not. There is no hard evidence of tampering after ref inspection in the texts and the science doesn’t support it. Its not like gravity would stop applying if you just decided not to believe in it.

    Still no answers to any of my questions. Attempting to answer them would be a little more productive.

    Its sad that you place so much faith in Goodell. Lots of CTE ridden players would have appreciated it if he hadn’t suppressed concussion research or if he hadn’t help hide $130 million from the shared revenue pool with players. And the legal system would have appreciated he not have perjured himself in court TWICE (once in Rice case, once in Brady case).

  152. dynastypolice says:
    June 18, 2018 at 5:06 pm
    So you believe that they suspended Brady & upheld the appeal when they knew for a fact he did nothing wrong? You seriously believe this? Cheaters lie about what they do. Over and over. Until there is concrete evidence and they are caught once and for all. He could have admitted what he did, apologize and did all he could to make amends. But instead he stuck to his lies, let others take the blame, tried to convince people he was railroaded and this upstanding guy who would never. He has no remorse which is why respect is difficult for so many to hold for the talent he does really have. It’s why he’s never going to live it down. Playing stupid would have even been a better choice. He has no idea how many people would have been upset but respected him for being honest and trying to somehow fix what he did. He continued to try to beat the system and fight a battle he had no business in fighting because of what he did. There ended up being more damage to him because of the continued lies and lack of any remorse. He could be the greatest guy in the world but the second he committed a wrong he had to own it when caught. He didn’t. He still hasn’t. He never will. He blew his own reputation and list a lot because of it. He doesn’t have to care so he doesn’t. That’s the arrogance. I get standing by your team but not when they do things they have been clearly caught doing and is wrong on so many levels
    ============================
    Nash: “Is there a text in which Mr. Brady instructs someone to put a needle in a football? No there is not such direct evidence.”

    Berman: “What is the evidence of a scheme or conspiracy that covers the Jan. 15 game? I’m having trouble finding it.”

  153. dynastypolice says:
    June 19, 2018 at 4:40 pm
    2. The text exchange between Brady and Jastremski in which Brady tried to calm Jastremski after people started whispering about deflategate.
    Brady: “You good Jonny boy?”

    Brady: “You doing good?”

    Jastremski: “Still nervous; so far so good though”
    1. The text Jastremski sent Brady just hours after he clicked on a NBC Sports Pro Football Talk about the “deflategate” controversy.
    Jastremski: Call me when you get a second
    =====================
    This was between the AFCCG and the SB. The same conversation Brady admitted to having that Goodell lied about never taking place.

  154. It’s laughable to point to the texts as the golden goose for culpability. Granted the NFL was forced to do the exact same thing when science failed them but at least they had Article 46 to fall back on. Which is to say the NFL won the right to discipline players regardless of evidentiary support. It would have simply better to admit that than to ask intelligent people to believe the evidence proved anything relating to the Deflategate suspension.

  155. dynastypolice says:
    June 21, 2018 at 2:48 pm
    The texts are right there in black and white. They (including Brady) were nervous when it started blowing up in the news. Again, I get it…you’re a Pats fan, correct? There is no debate here, you’ve presented spin to suit your narrative while I’ve provided concrete facts in black and white herein. Neither of us will ever agree with the other, so there is no point in continuing here. Go ahead with your next blurbage that you yourself do not even believe in the name of your beloved Pats, because you need the last word. Believe me, I wish this wasn’t the case, I’m a huge Brady fan as we attended the same high school…and now I no longer have bragging rights without being shot down….just like you are on these sites. All your pre-fabbed arguments are from much practice dealing with this sad truth, and will always be the case moving forward. Is it worth it for you? Think about it…you’ll be okay, it’s not like you’re on the team or paid by them, right?
    ======================
    Translation … sniff

  156. Translation: The evidence speaks for itself or there would have been no punishment, case closed. Pats fans are like those who still think the election was fixed by the Russians….hey there’s a thought…the Russians must have framed Brady, ya that’s it, lets throw that in there as well. Grow up already, and stop making excuses for the reality of what happened. Living in the past is an exercise in futility, don’t you think? Move on.

  157. dynastypolice says:
    June 21, 2018 at 5:37 pm
    Translation: The evidence speaks for itself or there would have been no punishment, case closed. Pats fans are like those who still think the election was fixed by the Russians….hey there’s a thought…the Russians must have framed Brady, ya that’s it, lets throw that in there as well. Grow up already, and stop making excuses for the reality of what happened. Living in the past is an exercise in futility, don’t you think? Move on.
    ============
    And yet the NFL spent $5+ million in a failed attempt to use science to support the texts. Why do you suppose that is? Why bother if the texts were enough? We get it’s enough for you (anything beyond the texts is enough for you). Just don’t get bent when others call you out on it. I don’t have any problems living in the past. I wear it like a warm blanket. It would seem you do as well. Otherwise you wouldn’t still be posting on a frame job that was resolved years ago.

  158. dynastypolice says:
    June 21, 2018 at 5:37 pm
    Translation: The evidence speaks for itself or there would have been no punishment, case closed. Pats fans are like those who still think the election was fixed by the Russians….hey there’s a thought…the Russians must have framed Brady, ya that’s it, lets throw that in there as well. Grow up already, and stop making excuses for the reality of what happened. Living in the past is an exercise in futility, don’t you think? Move on.

    =============

    The evidence you cited doesn’t say anything relating to the rule the supposedly broke ( altering footballs after inspection), your argument continually dies on that vine. The Russian thing is just weird, your exposing your conspiracy thinking there. The only true leg the NFLs argument stood on in the courts was article 46. It wasn’t the facts of the case. That’s not an opinion, that is public record. Move on, indeed.

  159. Sorry Chill, he was found guilty and punished, accept it. None of you’re ‘Pats fan canned answers’ will change that. Anyone reading those texts alone knows this….heck everyone knew OJ was guilty before he was found innocent at trial. Your ridiculous statements about how the texts don’t specifically point to details is all you got, as if they’re supposed to send concise confessions via text? Come on now.
    You wouldn’t be entertaining us here with continued pointless debate if you believed what you were saying. If you knew everything under BB was legit, you wouldn’t waste your time time on these sites trying to fight back, right? You’d just enjoy the success. You spend all your time coming up with pointless arguments because of the endless beating you take from public opinion against your Pats. Listen, this will never end…and the proof will be that none of the Pats under BB will be inducted in the HOF. Question, is Bonds in the MLB HOF? He’s the MLB GOAT, right? And another tid bit for you….Bonds also attended the same HS as me and TB…..must be something in the water at Serra making us cheat!

  160. Again ignoring the debunked science, the public and in-court lies, the conflicts of interest and lack of any communication mentioning tampering after inspection, among many of the issues with the NFL’s case. You’re basing your whole argument on an interpretation which is far from definitive proof. Your refusal to address any of the other issues is a LOUD omission.

    And Brady wasn’t found “guilty”, it wasn’t a trial. No matter how badly you want it, the court decision wasn’t based on the facts of the case, it was based on the CBA and the commissioner’s power.

    You’re stating opinions and interpretations, I stated facts.

    And saying Brady and BB won’t be in the HOF is pretty hilarious. Bonds, eh, he probably should be in the HOF. Baseball already has plenty of iffy PED characters in there already. The door was already opened.

  161. Let’s not confuse the issue … all we have are the texts. The basic malfunction here is the “logic” that the texts alone prove culpability and trying to defend it against Pats homerism. The problem isn’t the homerism it’s the logic.

  162. He was punished because he was guilty, now get over your bizarre conspiracy theory’s about the NFL out to get the Pats. If anything, the Pats owe RG a dept of gratitude for helping destroy years of evidence back in ’07 subsequent to the congressional probe. This would have certainly led to a forced sale. Think about it, if Stirling had to sell do to something he said in the privacy of his own home…Pats sale would be a no brainer if all the tapes etc. got out, starting with and before the Rams game.

  163. Uh, you threw out the Russian plot so let’s pipe down about conspiracies. and I never said they were “out to get the Pats”. You made that up.
    I said they are bad at investigations in general.

    And there was no congressional probe over spygate, sorry, that’s a fact. Arlen Specter, the befuddled congressman who complained in the first place, even admitted it wasn’t worth their time.

    And the “destroyed evidence” was shown openly to the media first. So again all dead ends on your part and you still refuse to answer any of the questions about the science of the nfls shady behavior. checkmate…again.

  164. Sorry, all incorrect….more canned Pats Fan answers to what they continue to be hammered with…doesn’t fly. Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt also supported the inquiry. Learn your ‘facts’ Specter said it was unsettling to learn that the tapes, as well as notes, turned over by the Patriots in September had been destroyed in Foxborough, Mass., rather than in the league’s New York offices. Aiello said that the documents and tapes were destroyed after they were reviewed by NFL officials Jeffrey Pash and Ray Anderson and that the call to destroy the material came from Goodell, saying “There’s no further use for it, so he said get rid of it.”
    Specter said the league’s suggestion that the material, particularly the notes dating to the 2002 season, was destroyed because it might have afforded a competitive advantage is unbelievable.
    “Everything has changed,” he said. “Nobody could use those — they are scrap paper — except [as] evidence.”
    With the evidence destroyed, Specter said there is no way to tell what advantage the Patriots might have gained in the illegal taping practice.
    • Specter is particularly concerned about how the taping might have affected New England’s games involving teams from his home state in the 2004 postseason.

  165. “I’m not going to call for hearings because the mood is not right and we’ve got too many other bigger problems to deal with” Arlen Specter, 2008. He spoke up about the topic obviously but no formal congressional investigation actually took place as you suggested.

    And taping signals wasn’t and still isn’t illegal, its the location of the camera that is the focal point of the rule. And the camera location rule wasn’t applied until the offseason after the ’06 season. As for “taping practices”, there wasn’t any evidence of that. The paper who reported it printed both a front and back page retraction, an unprecedented move for a major metro paper. This same paper also got in trouble with a Pats story just this past February by printing a false story about Brady’s atty. Don Yee, which led to another retraction and the reporter being suspended.

    Its funny how you’re retreating from your Deflategate argument by bringing a completely different investigation. And that taken with the NFL’s horrific recent track record on other league investigations (Bountygate, concussion research supression, Bullygate, Ray Rice, Josh Brown, Zeke Elliot, makes it strange that you place so much faith in their abilities.

    And still haven’t addressed any of the questions I brought up.

  166. No retreat, the SG subject was just a point that RG wasn’t targeting the Pats, rather he helped cover for them in that case (regretfully for him, as the sale could have been forced as it should have been). As far as the hearings, the language once again speaks for itself…with the evidence destroyed, hearings would be damaged. We’ve all heard the excuses about both SG and DG, it’s like walking through a prison…all the inmates claim innocence, yet there they are. The only question really is why was TB punished if he was actually innocent? You blame the NFL etc., which sounds like you’re claiming conspiracy. Guilty and punished, nothing else to debate here. Move on.

  167. Ugh now “forced sale “ conspiracieswith no facts or legit responses to what I pointed out….. and no answer for any of my questions. More checkmates for me. No answer still for bad science, perjury, history of bad investigations, conflicts of interest, lying to the public..etc.

  168. “The only question really is why was TB punished if he was actually innocent?“

    The NFL admitted it didn’t understand the physics, and the courts said the decision rested on the CBA language, not facts of the case. Why are the PSI logs still hidden? Why did all of the scientific outlets not paid by NFL debunk the Wells report? Why have teams caught with low PSI or tampering with footballls not been punished since then? Why, in the Goodell era riddled wirh so many poorly run investigations, do you trust his leadership decisions? you are avoiding these basic questions. To avoid these questions is to admit you have no argument.

  169. Incorrect, the evidence was there…texts videos of the act…destruction of evidence, the rest is inconclusive ‘white noise’. Guilty and punished…this has not changed. Again, you have not answered my question, why was TB punished if he was innocent? CBA has nothing to do with it…if he appeared to be innocent, the NFL would have backed down, no? Otherwise what you’re saying is that they knew he was innocent and where out to get him anyway? Make up your mind. Let me help you…you’re a Pats fan and will never admit anything ever. You are white noise in here, and that’s all there is.

  170. Didn’t realize you were still chirping on this one. Still no answer to any of my questions… And you cite hard evidence with the texts, video? Nothing of the sort exists. And there’s no “destruction” of evidence when the NFL has no subpoena power and its not a criminal court proceeding. If you think that the phone is destuction of evidence, what is your answer to the NFL refusing equal discovery of evidence for the Brady side? What were they hiding? If you want “hard evidence”, look at the physics (and the NFL’s admitted ignorance of it) or the NFL’s evasive and dishonest behavior. And the CBA doesn’t matter? I guess you didn’t read any of the court decisions or Goodell and his atty’s own statements on the matter. No “guilt” was admitted or found. It was an assertion of the commissioners power as agreed upon with the CBA, specifically article 46. The entire case, once it went into the court system, hinged on the language in the CBA. You can’t call checkmate when your avoiding every move on the board. You need to have real counterpoints. Your just banging the same drum of bad information.

  171. Oooo – The thumbs up must have really hurt as we’re all laughing at you in here, I guess the Russians must have hacked NBC for the ‘thumbs up gate’now as part of the conspiracy against the Pats…..ooo those naughty naughty Russkis? That’s a special kind of stupid on your part. Your questions are Pats fan canned ‘white noise’ trying to deflect from the evidence/truth. You didn’t answer my question which is this: If the ‘real’ evidence pointed to TB’s innocence, then why would the NFL punish him? With your logic, he is clearly innocent, and the NFL’s refusal, ignorance, evasive, dishonest (your words, did I leave anything out?) must all be of the ‘conspiracy’ to get the Pats (that you deny, yet it’s your words). Checkmate stands, you really need to move already.

  172. “If the ‘real’ evidence pointed to TB’s innocence, then why would the NFL punish him? ”

    Because, as they admitted, they didn’t understand the physics. I’ve actually addressed this many times, you need to pay attention. If they did understand physics, they would have taken better measurements. But they bungled the gauges, the proper location of where to measure them and didn’t record any observations of the state of the footballs or the temperatures they were exposed to. Its not hard. The NFL got in too deep, tried to “science” their way to a real conclusion by hiring a company known for giving the scientific conclusions their clients pay for (ie Exponent actually argued smoking won’t cause cancer for Big Tobacco). The more the NFL spent, the more they dug in and the harder it would be to go back. The NFL even refused outright to correct the Mort tweet for no reason other than PR perception. And the other owners in the NFL, whether by just straight jealousy or misguided anger over Spygate, pushed him on. Its the owners 22mil Goodell was spending, not his own. And above all of that, its about precedent. If Goodell backed down at any point, he knew he’d both take an bad PR hit, and he’d open the door to be challenged by players at every turn (unfortunately for him, that still kind of happened). But if Goodell backed off in court, then players could just sue their way out of any punishment at all. This unmistakably proves Article 46 was the heart of the matter, not PSI. If PSI was, the promised PSI logs would have been released and several teams would have been dinged since then for ball tampering and/or low PSI. If Goodell was so hung up on PSI and ball tampering, why didn’t the Colts get punished? Their PSI was low that AFCC game too AND they ADMITTED to ball tampering with the Patriots footballs. Sticking a needle gauge into a football lets out a tiny bit of air every time, therefor is a MASSIVE breach of the rules and the Colts admitted to doing just that. The Giants did it in 2016 to the Steelers too, who also had low PSI. Why no punishment for either of them? Because Goodell doesn’t care about PSI, he cares about maintaining his power. Fact.

  173. Your imagination is pretty comical. Most of what you state points to your own conspiracy theory once again. NFL trying to fix tests, worried about PR vs the truth, owners are ‘jealous’ etc. Fact – variance in pressure vs Colts balls discovered. Fact – text messages are indisputable – common sense. Fact: Cell was destroyed, no coincidence. Fact – Brady finally being caught doesn’t preclude his being guilty of this since day one. Again the rest of what you state is cherry picked nonsense used to cloud the truth. Nothing under BB is legit and the HOF will reflect this as with the MLB GOAT, Bonds…not in the HOF either for cheating.

    Also, Fact, logging off and on doesn’t allow multiple thumbs up. Therefore Fact – no one in here agrees with you.
    Now go back down to your mother’s basement and play video games.

  174. What conspiracy theory? The NFL admitted it knew nothing of physics and many well respected scientific outlets said the measurements were done terribly. I never said it was a conspiracy, I said they were stupid and prideful. You are the one spouting weird Russian plots. It was pure ignorance, which the NFL openly admitted. You gotta do a little research. And you still haven’t proven the text messages said anything about post ref inspection deflation, its not hard proof, no matter how badly you want it. Its not “fact”. Cell phone destruction? That is a red herring, NFL has no right to private property, and NFL had all of his communications and electronic data anyway which he handed over. He had privacy concerns and obviously they were warranted as his emails were leaked, (why do we know about his pool cover preference?) You’ve offered no counterargument to the science, to the public lying, to the refusal of the NFL to enforce the PSI rule since then, to the terrible track record the NFL has with investigations under Goodell et al. Its not “white noise”. Physics doesn’t stop being true if you don’t believe in it. It goes right on as it always has. I invite you to answer any of those points or again, sadly, your argument continues to die on the vine.

    And the MLB has plenty of PEDers and rule benders in the HOF. Picking out the Bonds example ignores the rest that got in. Again, do a little research.

  175. worried about PR vs the truth

    This one actually made me laugh, tell me again how “independent” Ted Wells was? When the NFL was allowed to edit his “independent” report? When the NFL hired one of his colleagues , Lorin Reisner, at the appeal? When the NFL attys refused to correct the Mort tweet even after Patriots repeatedly asked them too because NFL just didn’t feel like it ? When the NFL put out an article, before the appeal transcript was made public under court order, that Brady wanted the appeal transcript sealed, when in fact, Brady’s side explicitly asked during the appeal that it be made public and the NFL refused and wanted it sealed? When Goodell’s attys lied in court about Brady’s communication with the ball boys (not the first time he’s lied in court, either, he did it in Rice case too)?, When the NFL refused to punish any other team since then that has been found with low PSI (ie 2016 Steelers)? When the NFL refused, after promising transparency, to release the PSI logs? It goes on and on. It was a prideful PR strategy to save face for spending 22million on a mistake.

  176. Saying ‘white noise’ is saying what is the reality of your tactic which ignores the obvious conclusion the texts alone point to. The phone being destroyed at that point is almost as bad if not worse than the texts. This is all common sense, and everyone in here agrees. The fact that OJ was obviously guilty didn’t preclude the defense from stirring up a bunch of their own white noise to deflect from the obvious. I know you hate those texts, but they’re there, and no amount of repeating yourself with your ‘white noise’ will ever make them go away. Your constant blaming the NFL, public lying, they didn’t release logs, they didn’t punish so and so, refused to correct a tweet blah blah blah implies they were out to get Brady – conspiracy ….don’t you hear yourself, it’s what you’re saying, wake up. Guilty and punished. Legacy of cheating and nothing is legit under BB. Accept it, believe it and move on.

  177. I thought it was over a week ago and you re-stoked it with nothing new to add. I don’t agree with you, but good sports chatter. Have a great summer!

  178. Nothing new needed to add, what I’ve stated says it all and TB was punished due to being guilty (not for ANY other reason). It would be a feather in the league’s cap to have found him innocent ….bad optics when star players (especially QBs) are caught cheating and suspended…what other QB has this ever happened too? You’re over analyzing due not wanting to diminish their success (understandable but doesn’t fly).

  179. From the appeal decision, confirming that it wasn’t the facts of the case, but the language of the CBA and labor law that grounded the decision:

    “The basic principle driving both our analysis and our conclusion is well established: a federal court’s review of labor arbitration awards is narrowly circumscribed and highly deferential—indeed, among the most deferential in the law.
    Our role is not to determine for ourselves whether Brady participated in a scheme to deflate footballs or whether the suspension imposed by the Commissioner should have been for three games or five games or none at all. Nor is it our role to second guess the arbitrator’s procedural rulings. Our obligation is limited to determining whether the arbitration proceedings and award met the minimum legal standards established by the Labor Management Relations Act, 29 U.S.C. § 141 et seq. (the “LMRA”). We must simply ensure that the arbitrator was “even arguably construing or applying the contract and acting within the scope of his authority” and did not “ignore the plain language of the contract.” United Paperworks Int’l Union v. Misco, Inc., 484 U.S. 29, 38 (1987). These standards do not require perfection in arbitration awards. Rather, they dictate that even if an arbitrator makes mistakes of fact or law, we may not disturb an award so long as he acted within the bounds of his bargained for authority. ”

    ….sigh

  180. “It would be a feather in the league’s cap to have found him innocent ….”

    Uh, except that Troy Vincent even said the owners were getting annoyed with how expensive league investigations were costing in legal fees. If Brady, who won in the first round of court, would have prevailed, Goodell again would have looked foolish. Another poorly run investigation and this time it cost the owners $22million, for nothing.

  181. Stop with the mindless repeating. When the outcome was obvious out of the gate with the texts and conveniently timed phone (evidence) destruction…equipment guys sneaking into rooms after initial checks etc. The rest is …again…moot white noise paid for by TB to protect his legacy after being caught red handed. O.J. was guilty before the verdict of innocence and still is of course guilty. Not to mention Berman being buds with RK. Joke. Was getting expensive due to Brady not willing to face up, apologizing and moving on…low character move that cost everyone for his own selfish arrogance. This was not about RG not wanting to look foolish, again that would suggest a conspiracy to throw a star QB under the bus…no, your conspiracy theory’s don’t fly. The law, unlike math, is not an exact language and is therefore flawed in many cases (Berman)…but we digress. Quit sighting what the court said when it is irrelevant. Again, if you think the league stuck with their decision to punish TB – if they thought he was innocent – you’re back to a conspiracy theory…and you’re smarter than that. Now ..to finish this thread..repeat after me: I am a Pats fan. I will defend them against any wrong doing regardless of it being legit or not. I will ignore all obvious logic and point fingers at other teams and other decisions to defend my argument. I will continue to spend my hard earned time and $ supporting this wealthy franchise as they get richer at my expense and laugh all the way to the bank with my $ and time.

  182. And to your homer point against me, I think Edelman and Rodney Harrison both were idiots for their PED suspensions as I like them both as players. And Spygate was stupid by Belichick to keep trying to push a loophole after the league told teams to stop taping (Jets had done it too). But with this case, the science, the facts of the case, the NFL’s behavior (both the unintentionally stupid and willfully stupid) and Goodells long track record of bad investigations (Rice, Bountygate, Bullygate, Josh Brown, Elliot etc. )and shady behavior with players (suppressing concussion research funding research, helping hide $130 mil from players shared revenue pool) just don’t add up.

  183. Remains to be seen what surfaces with Guerrero and further PED issues. Spygate was obviously a deep issue squashed by the destruction of evidence prior to not only Sen. Arlen Specter but also Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt. and others who were behind the investigation process (never before or since with an NFL team, coincidence…uh no). Had the evidence not been destroyed with the help of RG in the interest of protecting the league brand…(not to mention Ramsgate) the sale would have also likely been forced. Again, pointing fingers at other issues is dodging the issue at hand, and opinions around how those other issues were handled varies…and primarily to the side of RG acting with integrity and competence…this is why he remains commiss.

  184. hahah now that is some sweet conspiracy weaving. Quotes, proof, rulebook citations? anything? Sounds like an awful lot of “white noise”

    And yet again ZERO answers to any of my questions… You can call checkmate all you want but if you dont know the rules or the facts its meaningless. I feel bad for you. Thankfully for you just because you dont believe in gravity, doesn’t mean you will fly off the earth. The science and the facts of the case fully support Brady. And Guerrero should not get any more scrutiny than Peyton Mannings wife did or the shady clinic that had been in trouble with the feds for illegaly importing HGH from China. Do some research.

    And “pointing fingers at other issues” is the crux of your case. Take your own advice and put aside the conspiracy theories.

  185. your argument: inconclusive text messages

    debunked science, poor investigative procedure, perjury, PR campaign against Brady, conflicts of interest at every turn , a very negative investigative track record, openly and repeatedly lying to the public, refusal to provide equal discovery, refusal to disclose new evidence, refusal to enforce the rules after the fact, etc,. etc, etc, = white noise?

    I think its pretty clear who get to call checkmate here. Pick apart any one of my points successfully or concede defeat. Have a great summer!

  186. Again, the copy and paste of cherry picked Ancillary B S that you continue to propagate I see throughout these threads with woven in insults/personal attacks which are nothing more than projecting.
    Texts, video and destruction of evidence is conclusive enough for any rational audience (non-pats fans) and proved to be enough to close this out with a consequence that you continue to dance around.
    Caught
    Guilty
    Punished
    Embarrassed – so fought back wasting time and $ for all involved
    Legacy established
    Case closed
    Checkmate

  187. No texts or video prove anything, sorry, Wells himself said in was inconclusive… Let it go go man and for your summer reading I’ll send you a high school physics book, with some interesting hilighted passages.

  188. Projecting again? You sound like you’re critiquing yourself here… maybe send yourself some psychotherapy books to help view the inner you. The texts, video and destroyed evidence (deliberate/desperate) obstruction….again speak for themselves, and they support the fact that he was found guilty and punished. Challenging this in court was an exercise in futility costing himself and others knowing how it would end up, but tactically trying to give the appearance of innocence in an attempt to salvage his legacy…didn’t work.
    Checkmate stands

  189. You vehemently deny your ‘conspiracy theory’ against TB, yet your words: “perjury, PR campaign against Brady, lying to the public, conflicts of interest” etc. sure tell a different story. Conclusion: Your theory is that RG/NFL were willing to openly commit crimes to damage a star QB (not good for NFL brand to do this) even though they ‘really knew’ he was innocent of any wrongdoing. Listen to yourself (or the proverbial voice in your head) and tell me that’s not a quintessential case of conspiracy theory.

  190. This would imply admitted guilt on it’s own. Judge Richard M. Berman of Federal District Court in Manhattan ruled in September that Brady had not been treated fairly and should not be suspended for deflating footballs because he had not been aware that such misconduct could lead to the kind of punishment he had received.
    The three-judge panel for the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit signaled from the outset that, rather than focusing on the question of Goodell’s authority, they were more interested in the details of Deflategate, including why Brady destroyed a cellphone the N.F.L. wanted to see and whether a four-game suspension was appropriate for tampering with how much air was in a football.

    “Anyone within 100 yards of this proceeding would have understood the cellphone issue would have raised the stakes,” Parker said. “Mr. Brady’s explanation made no sense whatsoever.”

  191. You vehemently deny your ‘conspiracy theory’ against TB, yet your words: “perjury, PR campaign against Brady, lying to the public, conflicts of interest” etc“

    Except those are facts, not some conspiracy. Proven and admitted, not disputable

  192. Brett Farve didn’t even have to produce his phone, and that was the instrument of the violation. NFL isn’t law enforcement and can’t compel production of private property. Even so, Brady provided all electronic data. And even so, NFL refused equal discovery of their evidence. But article 46 and labor law heavily favor the NFLs authority to do what they want.

    Explain please why you find Goodell and his poor track record with investigations credible. Show your work.

  193. And too bad I already pointed out and proved the 3 judges were using case law, labor law and the CBA and not the facts of the case as the basis…..I’ll let them explain, as you seemed to have missed it from before:

    The basic principle driving both our analysis and our conclusion is well established: a federal court’s review of labor arbitration awards is narrowly circumscribed and highly deferential—indeed, among the most deferential in the law.
    Our role is not to determine for ourselves whether Brady participated in a scheme to deflate footballs or whether the suspension imposed by the Commissioner should have been for three games or five games or none at all. Nor is it our role to second guess the arbitrator’s procedural rulings. Our obligation is limited to determining whether the arbitration proceedings and award met the minimum legal standards established by the Labor Management Relations Act, 29 U.S.C. § 141 et seq. (the “LMRA”). We must simply ensure that the arbitrator was “even arguably construing or applying the contract and acting within the scope of his authority” and did not “ignore the plain language of the contract.” United Paperworks Int’l Union v. Misco, Inc., 484 U.S. 29, 38 (1987). These standards do not require perfection in arbitration awards. Rather, they dictate that even if an arbitrator makes mistakes of fact or law, we may not disturb an award so long as he acted within the bounds of his bargained for authority. ”

    Proven. Not disputable. Checkmate.

  194. Incorrect, you miss the entire point again and fail to read sport…I know you get it but can’t help yourself repeating the same nonsensical blurbage to fit your own pointless narrative. “Brady had not been treated fairly and should not be suspended for deflating footballs because he had not been aware that such misconduct could lead to the kind of punishment he had received” implies he admits doing it but claims ignorance to the rules. “those are facts, not some conspiracy. Proven and admitted, not disputable” proves my point that you believe RG was willing to openly commit crimes to damage a star QB (not good for NFL brand to do this) even though they ‘really knew’ he was innocent of any wrongdoing. Listen to yourself (or the proverbial voice in your head) and tell me that’s not a quintessential case of conspiracy theory. RG remains commiss. due to his successfully making decisions in the best interest of the league itself …and still being around again speaks for itself. And again, you quoting the courts in this case is meaningless since RG had the sole power to make the decision, and again Challenging this in court was an exercise in futility costing himself and others knowing how it would end up, but tactically trying to give the appearance of innocence in an attempt to salvage his legacy…didn’t work.
    And finally -The texts, video and destroyed evidence (deliberate/desperate) obstruction….again speak for itself, and they support the fact that he was found guilty and punished. This means that anything after the point the suspension was given, is meaningless as he was proven guilty by the aforementioned activities. So stop quoting meaningless court noise….you look ridiculous. He was found guilty and punished no matter how hard your try to diminish that fact.
    I grow tired of trying to educate you, you need to go back down to your mom’s basement now and play video games …or whatever it is you do down there.
    Final checkmate…if you even know what that means.

  195. You don’t understand labor law or the CBA the players signed. Goodell has wide legal deference to do what he wants to discipline players. It’s not a “crime” as you purport. They players gave him that power and the courts in this case affirmed it. Please read the appeals court quote again.

  196. Still haven’t addressed the many flawed investigations Goodell has embarrassed himself with. And why all scientific outlets not paid by NFL (including scientists from MIT, Carnegie Mellon and Stanford) called Exponents report garbage. And why was Exponent used in the first place? They tried a produce a study for companies to prove smoking wasn’t a cancer causing among other beauties. They are a scientific conclusion for hire firm. They give the conclusion the client wants.

  197. You need to understand that nothing after the texts, video of equipment guys taking balls into private rooms after the initial check, destruction of evidence (obstruction) and abuse of process is relevant by any stretch of anyone’s imagination (including yours). The more you quote this, the more ignorant you appear to everyone.

    Brady was determined to be guilty based on the obvious evidence, and attempting to diminish that guilt implies once again that RG/NFL were ‘conspiring’ to get Brady regardless of guilt or innocence. Do you agree with that statement?

  198. So, to be clear, yet again, subjective interpretation of evidence, in your mind, trumps hard science done by some of the most talented minds on earth and proven and admitted poorly executed investigative procedure.

    Brady wasn’t found “guilty” by either Wells or the courts. You cannot find that word used. The phrase “ more probable than not “ is not just a wishy washy phrase thrown out there by Wells. It was extremely purposeful as it is the exact minimum threshold Goodell can punish a player under the CBA.

    And you forget that it was Goodell, not Brady that first started the court proceedings in order to “affirm” his decision. Further proof it was about cementing his power, not PSI.

  199. And you’re woefully misrepresenting why his attys. used the arguments that they used. Bradys attys argued on the grounds of adequate notice and fundamental fairness as those are very specific ways to argue an arbitration labor case (a court case in which Goodell initiated). The facts of what happened are not nearly as important at that point as Goodell’s procedural integrity. If the judges were only presented PSI science that proved the weather was the catalyst for the low PSI, they STILL would have to rule in favor of Goodell, per the wide deference given to arbitrator’s decisions in labor law and the CBA. Brady’s only way in legally was to fight on procedure and he won. But Goodell needed to affirm his authority as it would effect other player punishment cases, so he kept it going. And it helped Goodell as he won the Adrian Peterson case soon thereafter. Its not a conspiracy, that makes it sound thought out with foresight. It was anything but. It was a lets cover our butts and ensure we can’t be questioned again type business maneuver. The hidden PSI logs (after a promise of “transparency” and “getting it right”)and lack of PSI enforcement since then prove that. It was authority and setting a legal precedent, not rule enforcement that Goodell sought. Its why he started the court case in the first place.

  200. So to be clear, yet again, you’re saying that RG/NFL were ‘conspiring’ to get Brady regardless of guilt or innocence. Do you agree with that statement?

  201. And the voters have spoken.
    Checkmate, sorry sport. Move on to your next thread where you can be the self-proclaimed defender of the guilty…too funny!

  202. Wouldn’t have gone to court if Brady didn’t push back, and your interpretation of mincing the words conspiring vs ‘business decision’ doesn’t fly. You’re saying that RG/NFL consciously decided to punish Brady while knowing he was innocent of any wrongdoing. This is what you’re saying, correct?

  203. “Wouldn’t have gone to court if Brady didn’t push back”.. so which is it? Is Brady “guilty” because he fought back or because he didn’t fight long enough… yikes. Brady fought Goodell, why is that surprising? Goodell then took it to court, lost, then pushed it further and won on technicalities.

    I don’t agree with your incorrect re-wording of my argument, mine was much clearer.

    I didn’t say the NFL “knew” he was innocent and did it anyway. I said they didn’t want to know after they had already started leaking (incorrect) details of the story. There’s ample evidence of this, which I provided. Not disputable.

    And 7 downvotes in 6minutes on a month old PFT article? Hardly think there’s anybody still following this thread. You should work PR for Goodell.

  204. And you indicated that RG initiated legal action when he simply investigated an open and closed clear cut case. It was Brady who took it to court with the bought and paid for judge RK’s bud.

  205. How interesting since it’s impossible to logout and login to add votes as you suggested. No one in here agrees with you. Conspiracy to downvote you now, is that your new thing?
    And you exactly said that the NFL knew he was innocent based on the evidence available you so confidently cited.

  206. Goodell started the court proceedings, not Brady. You said “It was Brady who took it to court”, that is incorrect. Full stop.

    And its pretty easy to pump up votes on this site, your an expert I’m sure.

  207. “And you exactly said that the NFL knew he was innocent based on the evidence available you so confidently cited”

    Nope, what I’m saying is that the NFL thought they were right at the beginning but didn’t have enough to go on so they did everything they could to work backwards to prove their pre-determined conclusion (Mike Kensil’s comments reveal this). They meddled in and compromised the supposed “independent” investigation to ensure the outcome they wanted. They had no interest in finding the truth. And even after stacking the investigative deck, the best they could come up with was “more probable than not”. Your saying I claim “they knew the truth and went after him anyway”, I’m saying they never sought the truth in good faith in the first place. They just wanted to confirm something they already concluded using, at best, uninformed, and at worst willfully unethical, procedural methods. It was a bad faith investigation, and its been a proven trend of theirs in other investigations as well.

    You still haven’t shown, with evidence, why you find Goodell an effective and believable investigator these last 15 years or so he’s been on the job.

  208. I wouldn’t know about pumping up votes, however I did test your theory about logging in and out….doesn’t work. Full stop.

    And nothing was filed until he first pushed back. Full stop.

    If he had the integrity to at least man up to what he did, he would have got off easier and retained at least some respect. But not unlike Lance, his pride and arrogance feeling like he’s above the law ended up as his undoing. Sad.

  209. I tested it, worked pretty well actually.

    And hilarious you use the word “integrity” when Goodell lied to you and all NFL fans over and over again in this case and in other investigations. And to top it off, he’s also lied to the courts in this case and in the Rice case.

  210. “his pride and arrogance feeling like he’s above the law ”

    This actually applies nicely to Roger Goodell as he thinks he’s above the laws of Newton and the natural world as a whole.

  211. Incorrect, doesn’t work, you can’t handle the fact that no one agrees with you accept you.
    Goodell is still here based on his body of work being legit, or he’d be gone.

    “They meddled in and compromised the supposed “independent” investigation to ensure the outcome they wanted.” This is not conspiracy?

    I feel sorry for you.

  212. “Goodell is still here based on his body of work being legit, or he’d be gone.”

    Uh, no. He’s there because he makes the owners lots of money and he takes the PR hits for them (ie PR disasters with concussion research suppression, hiding $130mil from shared player revenue pool, handling of domestic violence, investigations gone wrong, etc.) . If he didn’t takae those hits for them and didn’t make money, he’d be gone. Still waiting for evidence from you that he’s credible.

    Its more of a I-don’t-want-to-be-wrong cover up than a conspiracy. If it was about “getting it right” as Goodell repeatedly said, he wouldn’t have hired Exponent/Wells, lied to public and in court and hid the PSI logs, among other missteps. He was covering his butt because the owners were complaining how much it was costing them. He couldn’t afford to be wrong, he had all the incentive in the world to not push to hard to get to the truth. A full fledged conspiracy would have been more along the lines of they had a truly independent science firm study it and prove Brady innocent and still go after him anyway. If the PSI logs were also available at the time and they covered it up, that too would be a conspiracy. But the PSI logs weren’t kept till after the court filings started. Its semantics though, its just not a very interesting point on your part.

    And it does work, see July 2, 2018 at 12:51 pm, I’ve hit that one down a handful of times, just for fun.

  213. And your focus on the vote count is telling as its an indicator of the PR nature of this entire investigation. The NFL was in it to win a PR battle and to cement Goodell’s authority, not rule enforcement. That fact is as plain as dry toast. There’s still an article on NFL.com to this day that says Brady requested the appeal transcript to be sealed. A couple weeks after the article was published, the appeal transcript was made public under court order and it clearly showed that Brady’s side directly asked for it be made public, but it Goodell denied the request. One of many examples of their shady PR tactics.

  214. Incorrect regarding the votedowns….I tried several times, doesn’t work.

    My premise is and always has been that the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. are above and beyond enough evidence, as it was for the NFL. Yes I know, as a Pats fan, you disagree, we’ve already gone there. I would say, however, as I mentioned before, my opinion if anything should be more biased in TB’s favor given we both attended Serra HS, and I enjoyed the bragging rights. So not just blindly passing judgement…it was just too obvious and disappointing for me to defend.

    Nothing really to debate here. Enjoy your summer.

  215. Not to mention Lynn Swann, Barry Bonds, Jim Fregosi, Gregg Jefferies and other notables also attended Serra….I think Bonds was the only other one known to have cheated. My bragging rights being diminished by the minute, ha!

  216. Vote downs worked for me, incorrect. And I enjoyed the vote downs for straight facts, (ie Goodell iniated court proceedings, NFL.com appeal article). Kind of exposes your bias if you can’t agree on neutral facts.

    Physics and a terribly run investigation with no follow through with the supposed promises of “getting it right”, “independence” and “transparency” and no evidence of a smoking gun leave only one conclusion, NFL got it wrong. Their recent history of cover ups and bad investigations (Rice tapes, concussion research, hiding $130mil in revenue from players, bountygate, bully gate, Josh Brown, etc.) lend them zero credibility. And the scientific community not paid by NFL agrees.

    High school? That’s your closing argument?

  217. It’s like you’ve memorized your canned response on this subject…lot’s of practice?
    Vote downs don’t work by logging on and off, maybe you’ve found another way?
    Goodell initiated proceedings only after Brady pushed back, thought that was clear.
    Matter of opinion on what the NFL got right or wrong….can’t let the prisoners run the compound.
    NFL got DG right by a country mile based on the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. This was always my premise as I’ve stated and you stated you don’t agree…this is weeks ago, so consider it the ‘closing argument’ if you like. Brady cheated, was found guilty based on the obvious evidence, embarrassed himself by denying it, and was duly punished. And if you think about it….we know that given the equipment guys already had nicknames etc. and knew the drill, Brady liked the footballs at a certain level and was doing this for years…the colts game was the tip of the iceberg. So he got off easy.
    The High School comment was to put it into perspective regarding any bias I may have as I was a huge fan of TB.

  218. Facts that are widely available don’t need to be memorized.

    Your Brady “ pushed back” argument makes no sense. You said explicitly that Brady started the court proceedings and that is false. Fiull stop. You can’t even accept neutral facts . It’s weird. Brady rightfully “pushed back” through the available arbitration channels in the CBA because the NFL obviously got it wrong, why wouldn’t he? It would be weird if he didn’t.

    And “ can’t let the prisoners run the compound” sounds like your finally coming around that it was about power not rule enforcement. And “ prisoner” is a funny term when Goodelll is a two time proven liar in court.

    And yea Brady’s such a clever cheater that he had the PSI rule printed out for the refs specifically to refer to .. what a genius! Let’s remind everyone of the rule I want to break!

    You can’t build a case with no proven crime. PSI was in perfectly acceptable range given conditions, fact. Science don’t lie.

    And I’ll add a few down votes to 7/2/18 12:51 just to prove it ( it’s at 16 now) .But who knows you might have multiple scree names.

  219. But you clearly have memorized them, and cherry picked to meet your own narrative.

    Yes case was filed after Brady pushed back knowing he was guilty, making the wrong decision to double down…..this never plays out well.

    A good chunk of NFL players would likely be in prison if not for the opportunity provided by the NFL. Yet it’s amazing how many still screw it up….e.g. AH.

    Brady was getting away with deflating for so long, he became complacent and finally caught, typical …when you get away with lying and cheating long enough, you become emboldened.

    Again – the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    And again, vote downs don’t work by logging on and off, maybe you’ve found another way? Have fun with whatever you figure out, but the jury in here doesn’t agree with you.

    Next?

  220. “Yes case was filed after Brady pushed back knowing he was guily”

    Again, it would be weird if he didn’t fight back since he thought he was innocent. Why would he roll over if he thought he was wronged? Why would he give up 4 games and a quarter of his game checks for nothing and have his reptutation maligned? Again, your point here makes no sense.

    And your evidence claim doesn’t add up. NFL had all electronic communications it needed and Brady went above and beyond and provided emails. NFL has no right to private property at all. They aren’t law enforecement. Brady had privacy concerns which were validated later on (why do we know what pool cover he prefers? why did he have to say sorry to Peyton for joking about him?) And the NFL “hid evidence” by obstructing interview requests at the appeal and refusing equal discovery to Brady’s side and obviously and most damningly, the refuse to release the PSI logs.

    You can’t call it a rule violation when you can’t prove that it happened in the first place. Science trumps subjective interpretation of evidence every… single… time…

    And the “results” do speak for themselves, the PSI was in the legal limit considering the conditions. You can’t get past that point.

    And no response for Brady printing out the rule for the refs? You say “next” when you haven’t answered, yet again any of my questions. Pick just one, please.

    And oh look the thumbs down for 7/2/18 12:51 is now up to 20…how did that happen?

  221. Since we now know about his lack of integrity, yes it would be weird if he didn’t fight back vs. doing the right thing admitting what he’d done, apologizing and moving on. My point here is clear and makes perfect sense.

    Again, no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    See above – answers everything you’ve asked

    So you now want to prove you’ve found a way to cheat the thumbs down system here? Have fun, because I haven’t, nor do I have the time or inclination to do so.

    Next?

  222. Nope, it would be weird for someone who is innocent to willingly give up a chance to defend themselves and recoup a quarter of their paycheck. You still don’t make sense.

    You haven’t answered why proven science is somehow less important in your eyes than subjective interpretations of non-smoking gun evidence, you haven’t answered why you believe Goodell/NFl after so many, many, many bungled investigations and in this case in particular lying to the courts and to the public (which I indisputably proved over and over again), Goodell lied to you repeatedly, why do you specifically believe him? You havent answered why the NFL owners would ever accept an “oops, sorry, I wasted 22mil on an investigation that was false” from Goodell? You haven’t answered why Brady would print out the rule for the refs that he intended to apparently break? You haven’t answered why no team has been punished for PSI/ball tampering violations since then, even though some have been caught? Why have the PSI logs been hidden? And many, many others…Pick one or two, just try. Your refusal shows you are very self conscious of your own argument as you resort to platitudes and jingoism. Too bad.

    And I’m just showing you how it can be done with the thumbs down, you’re obviously familiar with some tactic of it. Who is still reading this a month later and yet not chiming in? Hello? Show yourselves please, Bueller? Bueller? Anybody else here with something to add?

  223. Nope – when you’re obviously guilty, but have no integrity, it would be weird if you didn’t fight back vs. doing the right thing admitting what you’d done, apologizing and moving on. My point here is clear and makes perfect sense.
    My answer is clear when “no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.
    Nope I guess you’re better at cheating the system than I – again, Sorry you’re upset about the votes, but there you have it, no one in this jury agrees with you sport.
    Next?

  224. Still makes no sense when the laws of the natural world exonerate you.

    And still waiting for any sembleance of an answer to any of my questions. “No further evidence” would be needed if science was on your side. You have to show the crime first and then you need proper procedure to have a credible case. Lying to the public and in court is never a good look when you can’t even prove the crime ( or at any time, obviously) NFL definitively had neither.

    And no one else has chimed in yet, further proof of your vote pumping.

    No answers to the questions, and you ran out of ammo weeks ago. Checkmate, again.

  225. Nope – Again – the following is all that is needed to answer your questions: no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. No one else in here agrees with you.

    Final checkmate – Boom!

  226. The unexplained vote totals favoring your comments with no one else commenting tell a much different story. And the sudden decrease in votes in your favor also are unexplained and very curious.

    And yet again, no answers to my questions and you still haven’t even proven the violation even occurred in the first place ( and why you somehow are more knowledgeable on the topic than scientists from MIT, Carnegie Mellon and Stanford DT et al.). Round and round and still the wheel lands on Chill as victor.

  227. You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. No one else in here agrees with you…I’m sure they grew bored with the repetition.

    And yet you fail to acknowledge the fact that the following directly answers your questions: No further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    And even if the texts and other obvious evidence didn’t exist, RK was buds with Berman and guys like Roderick MacKinnon, the Nobel laureate who contributed to the Patriots’ rebuttal of the Wells report, after being compensated by a drug company in which the Kraft Group is an investor. RK is a crook who would do anything to protect TB (even overrule BB on his future) Anyone could be (indirectly) on that scumbag’s payroll. And in court, the judges peppered Brady’s attorneys with tough questions during the appeal hearing and at one point Judge Chin said evidence of ball tampering was “compelling, if not overwhelming.”

    But again, the texts etc. do exist, so nothing that happened thereafter is relevant. Go ahead and repeat yourself again as I’ve been clear on my side. Nobody agrees with you.

  228. Still no explanation for the dramatic decrease in votes in favor of you recently, curious. No one else has chimed in for weeks, yet they are still reading and voting?

    Still no explanation for why you think you know better than scientists from MIT, Stanford, Carnegie Mellon, et al.

    And strange that you throw insults at the reputations of several people without evidence and yet won’t answer my question as to why you believe Goodell, Wells, Exponent et al, when I’ve proven their conflicts of interest and Goodell’s history of bad investigations and dishonesty. If your going to bring up reputations, you must start by answering that first. Your point whithers without it.

    And as the courts explicitly said, the case was about labor law and the CBA, not facts of case. If it was in the scope of the case, which it wasn’t, Brady could have provided ample evidence to discredit the Wells report. But that isn’t what was being disputed.

    And you still haven’t proven there was a PSI violation given the conditions in the first place. The bank didn’t have any missing money yet your looking for bank robbers.

  229. You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. No one else in here agrees with you…I’m sure they grew bored with the repetition.

    Strange that you refuse to accept that no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    It couldn’t have been any more obvious unless the camera’s were actually in the room where the guy took the balls.

    Case close at that point.

    Boom! Checkmate…down goes Chill, down goes chill.

    Now come back again with your repeat? You’ll get the same solid bullet proof answer which is why you can’t stop posting. You can’t handle the truth!

    ~Jack N

  230. “Solid bullet proof answer” that doesn’t hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Avoidance of follow-up questions are an admission of a weak argument. Wells himself couldn’t even come to a solid conclusion and he avoided using any direct quotes from the interviews and refused to turn over any notes to Brady’s side yet he was called “independent”. And ask Jerry Jones if he changed his mind on the integrity of Goodell or Josh Brown’s wife or the Atlantic city police department who proved the NFL made no inquiry into the second Rice tape or any of the many other instances. Please don’t serve on a jury.

  231. Solid bullet proof answer needing no testing or interpretation. No avoidance, just streamlined visual documented facts that are clear, concise and obvious making all subsequent noise, noise.
    Projecting about not serving on a jury, break yourself down on that front and you may not like what you see.

    Checkmate once again – boring
    Next?

  232. Looks like you’ve added some votes too since last time…curious.

    Yea scientific proof is “white noise” and subjective interpretations of evidence with no smoking gun, that’s the ticket! You need to prove the crime before you start blaming people. You mentioned OJ a while ago which is pretty hilarious because the if the science was applied and understood better at that time, the result would have been different there too.

  233. You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. No one else in here agrees with you…

    When the proof is as obvious as this, then no amount of subsequent experiments/noise matter.

    Checkmate stands. Brady found guilty and served a 4 game suspension. You never addressed that fact that given the evidence, he’s been doing this for years and just finally caught. He got off easy. Sad part is that we’ll never no what would/should have happened over the years of his * career, and the collateral damage caused by the cheating. Very dark and sad era for the NFL

  234. There’s quite a bit more variety in my posts than yours. You ran out of ammo weeks ago and have no rebuttals to anything I’m saying as I continually and unequivocally defeat your points at every turn.

    You can’t seem to understand that we are the only ones still reading this, and yet your votes are still going up. You are being disingenuous to not be aware of that. No one else is following this. If they were, they would have commented.

    “You never addressed that fact that given the evidence, he’s been doing this for years and just finally caught.”

    You just made that up, whole cloth. There’s exactly zero evidence that it occurred at all, nevermind “for years”. You have nothing to stand on with that statement. It makes no sense. Brady told the equipment guys specifically to print out the rule and hand it to the refs because they had inflated a ball earlier in the year to an ILLEGALLY high PSI (which also occurred during halftime of the AFCCG game). But you have no answer for that… like so many other questions. Science trumps “feelings” every time.

    And again you embarrass yourself with “he got off easy”. Aside from the many, many, many, points that refuted Deflategate, remember that Ray Rice got 2 games for knocking out his finacee. Josh Brown got 1 game. Both times the NFL knew a lot more behind the scenes than they let on and they looked really dumb when it all came out. They have no credibility and have no idea what they are doing. Its proven time and time again. Prove me wrong, I beg you.

  235. Of course you keep getting the same answers as you keep repeating yourself about how your ‘questions’ haven’t been addressed when I’ve been clear.

    No need for more ammo when my position is clear, concise and irrefutable. Your points could have potentially been valid if the initial evidence wasn’t there. You’ve been making a homer fool out of yourself throughout being squashed at every turn.

    You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. No one else in here agrees with you…not my problem.

    It’s more than clear with the texts this has been going on for quite some time.

    The truth is if RG didn’t stick with the 4 games, he would have lost all credibility. He still regrets supporting RK in destroying evidence during spygate. Could have forced the sale back then to someone with integrity. Sad

    Checkmate stands, boring. You have nowhere to go, like a cornered animal. zzzzzzzz

  236. Okay – everyone including Judge Chin agrees that the below is more than enough evidence proving guilt:
    10. The text exchange Jastremski had with an unknown person regarding Brady being angry about the footballs he was using.
    John Jastremski: Tom is acting crazy about balls
    John Jastremski: Ready to vomit!
    Unknown: K
    Unknown: He saying there not good enough??
    John Jastremski: Tell later
    9. The exchange in which Jastremski told McNally that Brady, unhappy with how the balls were inflated, said McNally “must have a lot of stress trying to get them done.”
    Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you
    must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…
    Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…
    Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs f…. d us…a few
    of then were at almost 16
    8. The text in which McNally says he’s going to get revenge on Tom by inflating the balls so much that they become “f…. n balloon[s].”
    McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a f…. n balloon
    7. The text in which McNally says “F… k tom” and then says “f…. n watermelons coming.”
    McNally: F…. k tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..f…. n watermelons coming
    6. The text exchange in which McNally implies he better be compensated for whatever he’s about to do with a “big needle” for Tom Brady.
    Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week
    McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks….or its a rugby sunday
    McNally: F… k tom
    Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker
    McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week
    5. The text in which an angry McNally says “The only thing deflating [on Sunday]… is [Tom Brady’s] passing rating.”
    McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating
    4. The exchange in which McNally literally refers to himself as “the deflator.”
    McNally: You working
    Jastremski: Yup
    McNally: Nice dude….jimmy needs some kicks….lets make a deal…..come on help the deflator
    3. And then makes a joke about letting the world know about whatever they’re doing.
    McNally: Chill buddy im just f…. n with you ….im not going to espn……..yet
    2. The text exchange between Brady and Jastremski in which Brady tried to calm Jastremski after people started whispering about deflategate.
    Brady: “You good Jonny boy?”

    Brady: “You doing good?”

    Jastremski: “Still nervous; so far so good though”
    1. The text Jastremski sent Brady just hours after he clicked on a NBC Sports Pro Football Talk about the “deflategate” controversy.
    Jastremski: Call me when you get a second

  237. Everyone including Judge Chin during the appeal hearing agrees the below is more than enough evidence proving guilt:
    10. The text exchange Jastremski had with an unknown person regarding Brady being angry about the footballs he was using.
    John Jastremski: Tom is acting crazy about balls
    John Jastremski: Ready to vomit!
    Unknown: K
    Unknown: He saying there not good enough??
    John Jastremski: Tell later
    9. The exchange in which Jastremski told McNally that Brady, unhappy with how the balls were inflated, said McNally “must have a lot of stress trying to get them done.”
    Jastremski: Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you
    must have a lot of stress trying to get them done…
    Jastremski: I told him it was. He was right though…
    Jastremski: I checked some of the balls this morn… The refs f…. d us…a few
    of then were at almost 16
    8. The text in which McNally says he’s going to get revenge on Tom by inflating the balls so much that they become “f…. n balloon[s].”
    McNally: Tom sucks…im going make that next ball a f…. n balloon
    7. The text in which McNally says “F… k tom” and then says “f…. n watermelons coming.”
    McNally: F…. k tom….make sure the pump is attached to the needle…..f…. n watermelons coming
    6. The text exchange in which McNally implies he better be compensated for whatever he’s about to do with a “big needle” for Tom Brady.
    Jastremski: I have a big needle for u this week
    McNally: Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks….or its a rugby sunday
    McNally: F… k tom
    Jastremski: Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker
    McNally: Tom must really be working your balls hard this week
    5. The text in which an angry McNally says “The only thing deflating [on Sunday]… is [Tom Brady’s] passing rating.”
    McNally: The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating
    4. The exchange in which McNally literally refers to himself as “the deflator.”
    McNally: You working
    Jastremski: Yup
    McNally: Nice dude….jimmy needs some kicks….lets make a deal…..come on help the deflator
    3. And then makes a joke about letting the world know about whatever they’re doing.
    McNally: Chill buddy im just f…. n with you ….im not going to espn……..yet
    2. The text exchange between Brady and Jastremski in which Brady tried to calm Jastremski after people started whispering about deflategate.
    Brady: “You good Jonny boy?”

    Brady: “You doing good?”

    Jastremski: “Still nervous; so far so good though”
    1. The text Jastremski sent Brady just hours after he clicked on a NBC Sports Pro Football Talk about the “deflategate” controversy.
    Jastremski: Call me when you get a second

  238. Still waiting for the part where they mention post ref inspection deflation? Deflation prior isn’t illegal. And why the science doesn’t support post ref inspection deflation? And why did the equip guys print out the rule for the refs? And why were the balls all different PSI’s ( which provides no advantage) if the conditions werent a factor? Or why did the refs illegally overinflate Pats balls earlier in the year (hence Brady’s anger and reason for printing rule out) and why was one also illegally overinflated by refs in AFCCG, thus showing the NFL is terrible at monitoring this? And why again, did the Colts face no punishment for illegally tampering with a Patriots ball, which they openly admitted? Where are the PSI logs? So many questions….and these are just a few of them.

  239. And again the NFL initiated court case was not about facts of the AFCCG, it was about the commissioners authority and labor law.. The judges said as much. I proved that long ago. Please pay closer attention. You gotta read the source docs, it’ll help.

  240. Strange that you refuse to accept that no further evidence is needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.
    Why are you still grasping at straws? No one, including Judge Chin, agrees with you.
    You seem to be the only one who’s figured out how to manipulate the votes which you’ve admitted. Not my problem. tick….tick…
    Cheers

  241. Wells, Goodell Andy you never proved the crime in the first place. The bank had no missing money, as I said before. The science destroys that argument. And the texts easily can be read as a pre inspection demand. Indisputable.

  242. And still you seem much less worried about the Colts who admitted to tampering. Now that is evidence, but you don’t seem to care. And it’s yet another ding against Goodells integrity and promised pursuit to “get it right”

  243. The facts are, Brady was punished, and Goodell is still the commiss. when he could have been ousted. All you have are homer cherry picked excuses as to why those two facts exist. It’s been weeks since there’s been anything further to discuss. You seem to have convinced yourself that you are correct, but clearly no one else agrees with you, including Judge Chin who is quite familiar with the case.
    We disagree, time to move on.
    PS, Sorry I let you down, Julian, luckily we were able to avoid this with TB 12 (so far)!
    Yours Truly
    Alex Guerrero

  244. The evidence was clear enough for the league, media, public (save your homerness) and Judge Chin in the appeal hearing. Nothing anyone uses to try and divert attention away from this will ever erase this. You’ve tried to diminish everything else that pointed to TB’s guilt, why not Judge Chin?? Maybe the NFL pulled an RK move and paid him off à la Berman?

    Brady punished
    RG is voted to remain commiss. based on merit
    case closed.

  245. Already proved Chin and other judges were ruling on only the labor law and powers of the CBA, per their own words. They were not presented evidence discrediting the Wells Report as that was outside the scope of the case. If the case was opened up to that, Goodell and is attys would have had a whole host of other problems to deal with.

  246. Huh? There’s no evidence linking Guerrero to PEDs. Your fishing. Peyton has more of a link and even then there’s still too many unknowns. But the NFL wanted it that way in that case.

    And still no take on the Colts violation… interesting.

  247. Judges explicitly said they decided on labor law and CBA. One tossed off quote that was solely based on the NFL’s version of things doesn’t overturn an entire 30+ page court decision.

    Still no answer as to why your cool with the Colts breaking the rules… par for the course.

  248. That’s weak evidence, you need more than that. Now if Guerrero’s wife was getting HGH shipments (from a clinic who was sanctioned by the feds for illegally importing Chinese HGH), sent to their house, then you’d be on to something.

    Still no answer as to why your cool with the Colts breaking the rules… par for the course.

  249. Judge Chin made that statement on record and it is his conclusion representing the court..it is just another clear indication of how clear and concise the evidence is. Nothing else was needed, and TB wasted time and $ to try and salvage his legacy, just making it worse.

  250. “Pointing to others potential violations doesn’t excuse TB’s violations, guilty and punisheds.”

    hahahaha

    like Julian Edelman? You can’t get out of your own way.

    Still no answer as to why your cool with the Colts breaking the rules… par for the course.

  251. “Judge Chin made that statement on record and it is his conclusion representing the court”

    False. He said it in court. Its not in the court decision.

  252. “Judge Chin made that statement on record and it is his conclusion representing the court”
    True – I said it was on record and it is….pay attention…sigh!

  253. “Julian was answer to your saying no connection – pay attention”

    You complained about me bringing up an unrelated separate incident. You were the first to bring up Edelman, which, by definition is an unrelated separate incident to this discussion. Pay attention.

    And Colts admitted ball violation? any thoughts yet? its very much a related, intertwined incident to this discussion

  254. They both work with Guerrero, but it’s not deflategate, so I can go along with that.
    The problem with Brady is he won’t admit to a proven violation, destroyed evidence to obstruct justice and abused the (court) process on top of it all.
    Whatever the Colts (or anyone else) did or didn’t do, is not exculpatory with regards to Brady.

  255. Again, you have no evidence with Berman. What about Katzmann, was he “bought” to? And you claim Kraft was as well to extend Goodell’s contract?

    Colts violation in inextricably linked to the Patriots footballs. And its not a “did or didn’t do”. They admitted it. You are being disingenuous. You don’t have enough proof against Brady yet you can’t get your head around a confession?

  256. dynastypolice says:

    July 31, 2018 at 1:27 pm

    “Judge Chin made that statement on record and it is his conclusion representing the court”
    True – I said it was on record and it is….pay attention…sigh!

    ====================

    Yea its so “on record” that its never mentioned in the official court ruling, which is the only thing that matters. He never said it was his “conclusion”. If it was, it would be in the ruling. The ruling is the court’s “conclusion”.

  257. Chin made the statement, full clothe, you are being disingenuous.
    Again..regardless of what the Colts (or anyone else) did or didn’t do, is not exculpatory with regards to Brady. That is a fact.

  258. “regardless of what the Colts (or anyone else) did or didn’t do…”

    Again disingenuous. Colts admitted to it. And they weren’t punished. Guilty and not punished… get it? That means Goodell, yet again , and in the same game and same rule, again bungled an investigation. He is not credible. This is further, definitive and plain proof. He is terrible at this. There is no other conclusion.

  259. *Cloth
    Not disingenuous, doesn’t change whether or not TB is guilty, correct?
    ‘Guilty and not punished… get it?’ Smells like RG conspired to take Brady down? Singled him out?

  260. Not disingenuous, doesn’t change whether or not TB is guilty, correct?
    ‘Guilty and not punished… get it?’ Smells like RG conspired to take Brady down? Singled him out?

    =========
    Correct? No. Why wouldn’t it change your opinion on how credible Goodell is? Not punishing the Colts means Goodell is not credible, its pretty easy to see that and that fact hurts his case against Brady. And the scientific evidence also fatally wounds Goodell’s case. As far as the “conspiracy”, I’ve already extensively addressed that, not sure why your circling back on it. No one actually knows what Goodell was thinking in reality as he refused to be interviewed by Brady’s attys or allow equal discovery of the “independent” investigation. And he’s hiding the PSI logs which is also weird. He’s covering his tail for spending $22mil of owners money for nothing. He had no incentive for any other conclusion.

    Checkmate indeed.

  261. Incorrect – Again, no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    Your words – imply Goodell was conspiring against tb by virtue of not punishing the colts, rather only going after TB.

    Final checkmate full cloth.

  262. “No further evidence” needed when the science contradicts the NFL’s conclusions and the investigative procedure was highly questionable. You still have no answer for these points and the NFL had no conclusive smoking gun.

    And what law again says an employer can demand private property from an employer? And what information was the NFL missing again when they had all of the electronic communications between the equipment guys and Brady and Brady went above and beyond and provided emails as well (which were then promptly made public, thus confirming his privacy concerns)?

    And its funny to say “your words” yet you avoid using any of my words and you draw your own conclusion. I explained it pretty clearly. And your point here doesn’t really matter anyway. To assume Goodell’s motivation without being able to ask him directly or to review his investigation’s notes only lends itself to an opinion. You seem to want to call it a conspiracy more than I do. Its semantics and it doesn’t matter. Goodell was covering his butt, that much is true from the science and his own words and actions. Your hung up on the texts but you ignore Goodell’s contradictory communications. Selective logic, no? Prove me wrong.

  263. Incorrect – Again, my answer is no further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished. The evidence was already clear, all subsequent ‘noise’ was a pointless show as a result of this. Has the more than compelling evidence that Judge Chin also agreed with not been there, maybe some other dog and pony show would have been considered. Over. Full Cloth.

    Your words above further prove your theory he conspired against TB.

    Final checkmate full cloth.

  264. Hard scientific evidence trumps innuendo and poor procedure every…single…time.

    And explain again how is it that you find Goodell credible? Please show your work.

    Avoidance of basic follow up questions is a sign of a weak argument.

  265. Incorrect, everyone including judge Chin agrees he was guilty. He was punished as such. These are the facts. Your disagreeing doesn’t change the fact of guilt.

    No avoidance necessary with the debate has been over for weeks.

    Checkmate stands as usual.

  266. It’s like toying with a child reading your canned repetitive idle b s. We’ve seen this before from typical homers, only you’re on another level….nobody’s buying it.

  267. Yea being a homer for science sure is a wild idea. And funny to say “nobody is buying it” except Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, the NFLPA, and high school science teacher, etc. More disingenuous statements, more avoidance.

    And again, no work shown, no credit given.

  268. And of course anyone from Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon, the NFLPA, and high school science teacher who read the texts, considered the destruction of evidence, saw the equipment guys locking themselves in the restroom with the balls etc. would come to the same conclusion as everyone else. No other evidence is needed after that. And oh ya….he was punished for the violation, to which your only defense is “conspiracy theory”…….RG out to get TB…oooooooo….spooky. Move On…just Stop already. Like a child.

  269. “MIT professor debunks deflategate” by Eagles fan John Leonard is helpful. Its not spooky at all, I promise.

    And fun to put words in my mouth calling it a “conspiracy theory” and yet you think Berman was somehow paid off. I guess the dissenting appeal court judge was paid off too?

  270. All moot, did MIT review the other evidence? My position stands and is the ONLY evidence needed due to how obvious it is. Very inconvenient for you, but there it is. Nothing is relevant by any stretch of anyone’s imagination after it surfaced.
    Checkmate as usual.

  271. Its pretty inconvenient for you that you that the scientific community cannot prove that anything occurred. Your argument died before it began. Hug the inconclusive texts all you want, you can’t prove anything happened. The bank wasn’t missing any money. No other team that has had low PSI since then has been punished. The NFL refuses to release the PSI logs. Wonder why? Its almost like Goodell and NFL learned something and don’t want to go down this road ever again. You have no answer for these irrefutable points. Why do you keep saying checkmate to certify your loss? its weird. To each his own, I suppose.

  272. No one agrees with your opinion about the evidence including judge Chin. No further evidence needed when the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished. The evidence was already clear, all subsequent ‘noise’ was a pointless show as a result of this. Has the more than compelling evidence that Judge Chin also agreed with not been there, maybe some other dog and pony show would have been considered.

  273. Chin didn’t rule on the facts of the case as it wasn’t the issue in front of the judges in court, two of which sided with Brady, by the way. It was the CBA and labor law. Already covered and definitely proved that. There is no question about it.

    And you still haven’t proven a violation even occurred, it starts there. And you still haven’t provide any argument that defends the procedure the NFL used to come to their conclusion and why they are credible in the first place.

    And funny how the Steelers just got caught again with low PSI and no one cares (including me). hahahahaha

    Your argument needs to sit down and quietly fold its hands until it thinks of something to say that addresses my questions.

  274. Like everyone else but homer/excuse/patsfan/ville…ca ca ca ca cooter, Judge Chin agrees with the guilt.

    Violation proven with the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    Bringing up other teams simply solidifies your conspiracy theory.

    My argument is and always has been correct, and is why he was punished.

    Sit down indeed ..as your questions are moot noise and all completely addressed by my premise. Case closed.

  275. “Bringing up other teams” simply solidifies the NFL is not credible.

    And the rule violation was a scientific measurement. Its logically impossible to call the science “white noise” when its the very heart of the issue. If its “white noise” then the rule itself is “white noise”. You Jenga’d your own argument. Case closed indeed.

  276. Incorrect, my argument is as follows: No further evidence was needed subsequent to the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. were more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished. Everything else is noise….everyone including judge Chin agrees. Your argument is RG and the NFL conspired to take down Brady. ‘Conspiracy Theory’
    own it!

    Case closed.

  277. Uh, no . The science says the conditions did it. What Goodell’s motives were aren’t that revalent, he was self admittedly ignorant. Please read more carefully.

    Prove the balls were deflated, prove Goodell is credible, if not, JENGA! for you….again.

  278. Uh, yes. When the evidence is so blatantly obvious up front, then any subsequent items are irrelevant noise. Your only argument is conspiracy theory, own it.

    Checkmate stands as usual.

  279. Agreement ( not with the conspiracy part though, not enough evidence there, Goodell/Wells/Grigson/Pash etc. never turned over their phones), whoa, never thought we get there. So serious question, do you think the earth is flat? How old do you think the earth actually is?

  280. Great so you do finally agree that no further evidence was needed subsequent to the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. due to that in and of itself was more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    Since you do agree with the above, I’ll let your conspiracy theory about RG go and won’t tease you about living in your mom’s basement anymore.

    Good boy, enjoy the rest of your summer.

  281. You gotta read more carefully, man. As I said I agreed with “When the evidence is so blatantly obvious up front, then any subsequent items are irrelevant noise”

    Because, you know the physics says nothing happened. Nothing else matters. But as you said, You don’t believe in physics. And possibly believe the world is flat and that a Newton was a dishonest wizard or something?

  282. Living in your own little bubble where no one else agrees with you. Summary of the debate is as follows:

    a.) No further evidence was needed subsequent to the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc. due to that in and of itself was more than enough evidence, and the result again speaks for itself..guilty and punished.

    b.) Your position is that the NFL conspired to take TB down to cover their own butts when they apparently should have found him innocent based on the evidence you and only you feel so strongly about.

    Conclusion: My position is clear, concise, real world, common sense that everyone else but you agrees with being more than compelling.

    Case closed

  283. You say “no one else agrees with you” yet the scientific community not paid by the NFL and 2 judges among many, many others also disagree with the NFL.. Weird that you keep making that assertion when its obviously not true. You keep repeating it, yet you know its false. It, among other issues, hurts your credibility.

    And there was no “obstruction” on Brady’s side when the NFL was provided with all the electronic communications and above and beyond, emails (which were promptly made public, confirming Brady’s privacy concerns). The NFL has no legal right to private property. And yet there was undeniable “obstruction” by the NFL when it refused interview requests and notes asked for by Brady’s side.

    And still you have no “compelling” evidence that overturns the science or that shows Goodell’s credibility. Why did he have his attys lie in court about whether Brady spoke to the equipment guys about the balls after the AFCCG? The appeal transcript shows the exact opposite of what Goodell claims (along with Goodell’s claim that Brady wanted the transcript sealed, when he wanted it public and it was the NFL that wanted it sealed). Where are the PSI logs? Why was Wells repeatedly called “independent” when the NFL edited the report and Wells’ colleague was hired as an NFL atty? These strange actions and “obstructions” (and these are just a few of many) prove Goodell was covering his butt to justify this expensive boondoggle.

    Physics doesn’t care if you don’t believe in it or understand it, it, thankfully, goes right on being true. Its the beauty of science.

  284. Sorry my friend – we’ve heard all your babble – but nothing you bring up can make the obvious evidence go away: the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc.

    It’s over for you, call it day my friend. Guilty and punished. You case is not whether or not he was guilty of the violation, but rather was he conspired against by the NFL …e.g. why weren’t other teams punished if in fact they were guilty.

    Maybe try that that approach?

  285. Incorrect, you know you can’t argue with the texts, destroyed evidence (obstruction), video of equipment guys taking post tested balls into a private structure etc.

    Your only defense as to why he was punished is a conspiracy theory….say it..”I, the grand homer of chill factor #5, am a conspiracy theorist” there there now…feel better? I knew you’d come around.

  286. You seem to enjoy inventing things that I didn’t say, further hurting your credibility.

    Conspiracy – judges were paid off, Goodell was paid off

    Fact – the PSI of the footballs was perfectly in line with the weather and storage conditions

    Jenga.

  287. No inventing, your words.
    The visual evidence represents the truth, and why he was punished.
    My credibility is beyond reproach.
    The best you’ve been able to come up with is conspiracy theory.
    Checkmate stands as usual….and will in to perpetuity
    Best

  288. No inventing, all your words.
    The visual evidence represents the truth, and why he was punished.
    My credibility is beyond reproach.
    The best you’ve been able to come up with is conspiracy theory.
    Checkmate stands as usual….and will in perpetuity
    Best

  289. Its easy to say things and not back them up.

    I backed everything I’ve said with real evidence, you have not.

    I pointed out specific conspiracies you’ve touted and yet you have zero of mine. The best you can come up with is a “na uh”. Science and proven examples always beat a “na uh”. And the whole “conspiracy” thing is a boring semantics argument anyway. The point is, the NFL got it wrong and I proved it. Jenga, again.

  290. May data speaks for itself, all public domain and the reason judge chin along with everyone else found the guilt clear.

    You have conspiracy theories….you got in your own way…sorry.

    Checkmate stands.

  291. Data does speak for itself, and “everyone else” didn’t find it “clear” as you say. I proved it as there are many detractors well educated in the topic. Again you hurt your credibility by speaking in absolutes. I use facts, you used conspiracies. Still waiting for proof the balls were unnaturally low and why you find Goodell credible. The seed of your argument has no sprouts.

  292. My data is clear, visual and all agree as he was punished.
    You can’t diminish the evidence. It is factual and public domain.
    Your only defense is conspiracy theory. The proof that tampering took place is indisputable. You can’t debate this as much as you wish you could.
    Checkmate stands.

  293. Your plethora of comments about RB/NFL above throughout this thread prove it – I’ve already pasted back your comments ages ago. It matters because it illustrates your only defense as to why he was punished if he wasn’t guilty.
    Checkmate stands. Move on.

  294. Nope, never said it was a conspiracy from the get go, not that it matters all that much for this discussion. They admitted they didn’t understand the science or the proper method to take measurements, as shown in the appeal transcript. Then they invested a lot of money and PR energy to save face. And you have no answer for that, still.

    “it illustrates your only defense “…. other than the science contradicts it? You keep avoiding that fact. Telling.

  295. Yup – you did in many occasions… own it – it’s you.
    The texts, destroyed evidence and equipment guys taking balls into lock rooms speaks for itself.
    Telling indeed that you’re a loyal fan even in the face of complete and utter proven and punished violations.

    I’ll just call you CT from now on.

    Checkmate stands…move on
    Best

  296. Prove it. And again I exposed you. “everyone agrees”… except for the many analysts, fans and scientists who disagreed with the NFL. “only argument”…except for science contradicts the NFL’s case. “conspiracy”… except that I never claimed that (and you provided no proof) and you yourself claim unfounded conspiracy payoffs with Berman, Goodell and Kraft. And still no answers for any of my questions.

    Your argument is a solar car on a cloudy day, it goes nowhere.

  297. I provided the epitome of substance which is evidence and examples. You have not. Still waiting for proof and still waiting for why it even matters. Its almost like your avoiding the real topic. Sounds like your radio only get the “white noise” channel.

  298. You keep avoiding the fact that the texts, video evidence and destruction of evidence (learned behavior from AH) unequivocally prove tampering happened in the colts game and prior to that. Regardless of what experiments may or may not have subsequently shown does not excuse the illegal tampering.

    Your comments that you frame as ‘semantics’ illustrating your conspiracy theory are beyond clear in that regard.

    No one else including judge Chin agrees with your conspiracy theory. They do, however, believe the obvious evidence I’ve presented points to guilt.

    The NFL punished TB as a result of this guilt.

    That’s all there is. So the better debate for you would be how his/Pats under BB legacy stands up. Answer – similar to that of Lance, Bonds and other cheaters.

  299. Finally you come around, checkmate and out. Peace with with you….you may want to find another team to root for…..you may enjoy actually talking football vs. defending an organization with no integrity
    Best to you

  300. Still no answers to my questions, still touting dishonest statements (“no one else…” still pushing that unforced error, are we?, proved it wrong long ago, champ. indisputable).. Sigh.

    I even gave you an extension on your paper and you still didn’t do any extra work on it.

    Again, the essay questions you must answer are:

    (a) Prove the PSI in the footballs was unnaturally low. (hint, this is a science question)

    (b) Prove Goodell ran a credible investigation. (hint, this is a legal/ethics question)

    Avoiding these is an instant “incomplete”. If you want, you can still drop the class. I’ll check back with you in a while.

  301. Hint: TB was in fact punished for the illegal tampering
    Hint: Your conspiracy theory doesn’t hold water unless
    Hint: You have a much larger conspiracy theory about all the owners in the league participating in said conspiracy as RG is in fact still employed

    You keep falling deeper and deeper in your own hole.

    Checkmate still stands without a challenge…sigh.

  302. You’re avoiding the fact that the texts, video evidence and destruction of evidence (learned behavior from AH) unequivocally prove tampering happened in the colts game and prior to that. Regardless of what experiments may or may not have subsequently shown does not excuse the illegal tampering.

    a.) It matters not what the actual PSIs were as tampering is already proven. e.g. if a crime is bungled, it is still a crime
    b.) See ‘a’ above.

    Your comments that you frame as ‘semantics’ illustrating your conspiracy theory are beyond clear in that regard.

    Avoiding these facts gives you an automatic F. You may need to put your yellow helmet back on as you’ve been demoted back to special ed, given the low intellectual content of your comments.

  303. Haven’t avoided anything. The texts and video evidence reveal no definitive anything. There is nothing actually proving ball tampering happening after ref inspection. And the science doesn’t support it. “Destruction” of evidence is moot as the NFL has no right to private property and they had all communication records and Brady went above and beyond and provided emails, which were promptly made public, thus confirming his privacy concerns. And yet IF court evidence rules did apply, you equally must be offended by the NFL’s hiding of evidence (PSI logs, denying interviews, denying access to “independent” report notes, etc.). Much like your hand waving of the proven and admitted Colts ball tampering, you can’t have it both ways.

    And why again did Brady ask the equipment guys to print out the rule for the refs? Why play hall monitor while at the same time you’re pulling your senior prank?

    And your comments regarding Kraft, the judges and bizarrely Aaron Hernandez illustrate your penchant for conspiracies.

    Avoiding these facts along with the numerous other questions and issues with Wells and Goodell’s credibility and obviously, the lack of scientific merit of the NFL’s case, earn you an incomplete. And name calling is the dead end of any argument.

  304. Incorrect again. You have always avoided the question of why you dismiss the obvious clear visual, physical and written evidence via video, destruction of evidence and texts discussing tampering, which clearly proves tampering occurred during the colts game and prior to this. Simply stating ‘this doesn’t prove anything’ shows you have no credibility. Indisputable.
    The continuous reference of ‘Science doesn’t support this’ is moot when the above is clear visual, physical and written proof. The science consists of experiments after the fact…moot. By your logic, if the bank robbers bungled the crime and ended up with no cash, then the crime of attempting the robbery is not a crime. Ridiculous! The above proves tampering occurred for an indefinite period of time, indisputable.
    Destruction of evidence is key regardless of what the NFL has a right to or not. The timing of this was comical as was the excuse for same and speaks for itself.
    Bringing up PSI logs, denying interviews, denying access to “independent” report notes, etc. is again moot due to the overwhelming physical, visual and written proof already discovered. Bringing up the Colts being guilty supports your ongoing conspiracy theory. Denying you have conspiracy theory when you continue to say the NFL singled out Brady and no other teams, further diminishes your credibility, indisputable and proven ages ago.
    Bringing up ‘Brady asked someone to print out a rule’ is moot again see above.
    Hernandez illustrates what criminals do when anticipating the heat coming down, full stop, they destroy evidence.
    Again, avoiding the above facts and continuing to bring up what amounts to a meaningless abuse of process funded by Brady and Kraft…yes he contributed to court costs….means you earn an F and still relegated to special ed.
    Insults, personal attacks and name calling have been your MO starting way back in the thread.

  305. This is your final argument? Good that you agreement with the rest of my premise. Enjoy your forthcoming holiday season, and see you on the next round. Maybe PEDs when that finally surfaces?

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