Jason Kelce didn’t think much of the Patriots’ defensive talent

Getty Images

The Eagles’ offense moved the ball up and down the field against the Patriots’ defense in the Super Bowl, so perhaps it’s no surprise that Eagles center Jason Kelce wasn’t particularly impressed with the players on the other side of the ball.

Kelce told SI.com that when the Eagles were preparing for the Patriots, they felt like Bill Belichick and his staff had dragged inferior defensive talent to the Super Bowl.

“The last defense we had seen was Minnesota’s, and we were like, ‘These dudes have got some players.’ Then we see [the Patriots] and we’re like, ‘These dudes have got some . . . coaches.’ ”

When Belichick first led the Patriots to the Super Bowl, 16 years ago, his defense led the way. But for most of the Patriots’ dynasty, it’s been Tom Brady and the offense. The Patriots’ defense isn’t very good right now, and Kelce and the Eagles noticed it on film, and showed it on the field.

191 responses to “Jason Kelce didn’t think much of the Patriots’ defensive talent

  1. Well, he did have a good chance to observe it closely and take whatever notes he wanted since he did not have to worry about playing any football that day.

  2. Pats were one of the most heavily banged up teams last year, especially on D, but still got to the SB. Considering the Eagles got all the luck on a couple of big calls that arguably made all the difference in that game, they are the most salty and graceless winners ever.

  3. In all reality, Kelce just dissed his own defense in addition to the Pats D. The Pats D was nothing to write home about all year but Philly’s D didn’t look too good by game end. Brady threw for 505 yards and the Pats had 29 first downs, 613 total yards. 8.5 yards per play. Pregame, the Pats D was never touted as being very good, but you heard all year that Philly’s D was supposedly unbreakable. That statement Kelce made could easily have been made by Brady or one of the Pats offensive players about Philly’s D.

  4. I wonder what they thought of our defense , as Amendola and Hogan , two mediocre receivers, pretty much ran around uncovered all game

  5. Remember this next time you watch the draft, and they make it sound like every pick the Patriots had outsmarted the league.

    He lost that Super Bowl two years ago when he traded Chandler Jones.

  6. I don’t think it’s a secret that the patriots coaching staff has been able to get the most out of their players for years and this has allowed them to have cheaper players And fewer stars and still win . His statement sounds more like we are physically able to beat these guys one on one but if you judge talent by the ability to perform your job and win Super Bowl’s then you come up with a different evaluation. Don’t get me wrong, I am a big time patriots hater, but you can’t deny the talent on the coaching staff

  7. .
    The Patriots defense was wafer thin at the start of the season. By the time the inevitable injuries hit, it was held together by duct tape and baling wire.

    In recent years it seems the Patriots design has been built upon having a very explosive offense and an adequate defense. Even this year with well documented defensive deficiencies, New England chose an OL and a RB with their 2 first rounders in this year’s draft.
    ..

  8. So what? The Patriots got to the dance and to the Super Bowl. Great season and great fun for both great cities, Boston and Philadelphia. The better team won.

  9. Correction: “They have got some coaches and some cheaters” that combo will stretch your lack of talent to multiple SBs.

  10. I’m not a Pats fan but I’m still shocked they doubled down on offense in the first, with how close the SB was I think the argument could be made that had the Pats been able to get pressure or been able to force Foles to hold it longer they could’ve won that game. Outside of Hightower they don’t have anyone worth much in that front 7 and they gave up perfect opportunities in the Draft to improve their defense.

  11. Never seen a championship team who loved to talk about the team they beat this much. Tee hee. 🙂 It really is GREAT to see the back to back AFC and 5 time World Champion Patriots in people’s heads this much.

    If we’re being completely honest…that’s where they belong.

    🙂

  12. The Pats are never anything but complimentary of teams they defeat, and certainly aren’t dwelling on a game from almost 6 months ago with training camps opening all over the league.

    Meanwhile the Eagles even though they won the big game feel the need to continuously bash the Pats and are still living in that moment 6 months ago. If they don’t get they’re heads into the coming season its not going to be a good one for them and certainly no repeat.

  13. Pats were one of the most heavily banged up teams last year, especially on D, but still got to the SB. Considering the Eagles got all the luck on a couple of big calls that arguably made all the difference in that game, they are the most salty and graceless winners ever.
    —————————————————————————————-

    Might want to reconsider that “most heavily banged up claim.”

    They definitely were “banged” up by the Eagles second string in the Super Bowl though if you catch my drift.

  14. So Roger gave you a Super Bowl win by changing the rules during the game, just for the Eagles. The least they could do is accept it with grace. You can say a lot about the Pat’s, but you never hear them them talk disparagingly about an opponent, win or lose. They always give credit to the opponent.

  15. I actually agree 1000% with Kelce ,what hurts is the Jauguars should have beaten the Pats then the iggles would have seen a real defense in the Super Bowl ,it’s kinda like the iggles where handed their first Lombardi

  16. Well, as a Pats fan I can’t disagree with him. After the first 6 games, the Pats D was statistically the worst defense in NFL History. it’s been a while since we had a great D, but obviously good enough at times, and really shows the strength of Brady.

    what bothers me more is i don’t see where Bill has done anything to improve it, and without any pass rush it’s going to kill a now almost non- existent (except Gilmore) secondary.

  17. After the luckiest sb win in the history of the NFL, these guys are still talking. Let them and their fans have this though. Nothing makes me sadder than a Philly sports fan. They are just so invested in sports that they are delusional. Someone on the radio this week actually said that he cried when they eagles won the sb but not when his two kids were born. That is the weirdness that we are dealing with here. Losers who think that they are winners bc someone else won a game.

  18. The iggles and the City Of Philadelphia are smelling themselves big time right now ,gonna enjoy them getting the taste slapped out of their mouths ,especially that dude from 4th and jawn who wakes up everyday all iggled up !

  19. grantgoodman93 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:22 am
    These guys are so obsessed with talking about New England that it’s getting pretty weird

    34 13 Rate This

    ———————-

    getting weird? the jealousy is legendary.

    they were the best defense in the league in 2016, but when have that many people hurt or missing from the previous defense, of course it won’t be as good.

    people are going to be in for an incredibly rude awakening this season

    wow, are the haters going to be angry

  20. Wait a minute……isn’t part of the Patriot-hater excuse train the notion that Brady is overrated because he has benefitted from some of the best defenses ever seen when he gets to Super Bowls? You mean, that’s not true?

  21. The real story is that nobody thinks the Patriots will have a SB hangover and disappear. Win or lose, after a SB appearance they come storming right back the next season. It is a testament to the coaches and to the ownership, and why they are the greatest dynasty in NFL history.

  22. neatpete1 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:15 am
    Well, he did have a good chance to observe it closely and take whatever notes he wanted since he did not have to worry about playing any football that day.

    5 29 Rate This
    ——————————-
    Ah, now I understand the downvotes. I was thinking of the wrong Kelce. Sorry guys, my bad. Sometimes its hard to remember there is that other one.

  23. Isn’t it funny the only team the patriots have ever played in the super bowl which did “dummy” practices that week put up the most points against them. Weird right?

  24. Bill benched probably their best defender… and definitely their best DB.

    Yeah… they got some coaches alright… haha

    Pats were 5th in points allowed (which matters a lot more than yards allowed)

    And when I watched the Superbowl it looked like neither team played much D. (74 total points scored)

  25. Had the Patriots had played anything resembling average defense we’d have seen the first Patriots Super Bowl blow out victory. However the defense, healthy or not, was absolutely garbage in that game and wasn’t close to being up to the challenge of besting the Eagle’s offensive game plan.

  26. I’m as big Eagles fan, and I love Kelce….but dude, there’s nothing to be gained by repeatedly bashing the Pats or any other team for that matter. Let your play on the field do the talking, not your mouth.

  27. Funny, no one should think much of the Pats’ defense over the past decade.

    FUN FACT #1: The Pats’ defense over the past has averaged 19th in ranking. When this is contrasted with them having the luxury of playing in an otherwise QB-bereft division featuring 40% of their schedule every season against teams with offenses that have averaged 21st, 22nd, and 22nd in offense, it makes quite a statement.

    It should also end any debate as to which is more responsible for the Pats’ success during the BRADY era.

  28. nflfan12blog says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:47 am
    Well, as a Pats fan I can’t disagree with him. After the first 6 games, the Pats D was statistically the worst defense in NFL History. it’s been a while since we had a great D, but obviously good enough at times, and really shows the strength of Brady.

    what bothers me more is i don’t see where Bill has done anything to improve it, and without any pass rush it’s going to kill a now almost non- existent (except Gilmore) secondary.

    ————–

    It’s refreshing to see an honest Pats fan for a change!

    THANKS for your post!!

  29. everyone is being very analytical over this, but in reality the vikings literally have studs on the defensive side of the ball. The patriots have all time defensive coaching. why is everyone acting like this is a massive slant? The patriots pride themselves in the system they run, and allow big contract guys to walk all of the time.

  30. Pats = we are on to Cincinnati…

    Eagles = we are still playing last years Super Bowl…

  31. elmerbrownelmerbrown says:

    July 19, 2018 at 8:47 am

    I actually agree 1000% with Kelce ,what hurts is the Jauguars should have beaten the Pats then the iggles would have seen a real defense in the Super Bowl ,it’s kinda like the iggles where handed their first Lombardi
    —-

    I actually agree with this. If the Jags didn’t get 2 terrible PI calls, NE never would have beaten them.

    Jags should have been in the big game. Would have been totally different, that’s for sure.

  32. Kelce is not wrong. But does he realize that he is undermining his own unit’s effort? The Eagles won the SB because the OL kept the Patriot pass rush completely off of solid-but-limited Nick Foles, making him look great. But if the Patriot pass rush wasn’t any good anyways, then that effort becomes far less special.

  33. The injury bug is an interesting phenomenon. When it bites your team, it is the reason you lost, but when it bites someone else they are making excuses. Sometimes one injured player is enough to end you into a tailspin. Other times it seems like everyone is hurt. Aaron Rogers goes down and the Packers are a mess. Carson Wendt goes down and the Eagles win the Super-Bowl. I can’t get behind the idea that the injuries on defense are why the Patriots lost. I watched what they did to my Vikings really mean defense. Sorry but in the SB it looked to me like the Eagles played a heck of a game and the coaches did an awesome job of game planning and preparing thier players. Congrats to the Eagles from a Vikings fan ( whose team suffered their own injuries but kept rolling. ) Last year you earned your title. Well done.

  34. mcnabbster says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:36 am
    Correction: “They have got some coaches and some cheaters” that combo will stretch your lack of talent to multiple SBs.
    =========
    You mad bro? ‘Cause it sounds it.

  35. ikeclanton says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:54 am
    Wait a minute……isn’t part of the Patriot-hater excuse train the notion that Brady is overrated because he has benefitted from some of the best defenses ever seen when he gets to Super Bowls? You mean, that’s not true?
    __________________________________________
    Not touching your comment from a past sense, but you can’t use that argument here to prove your point considering the Patriots lost here. Had they won, your comment would have made more sense.

  36. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:15 am
    Isn’t it funny the only team the patriots have ever played in the super bowl which did “dummy” practices that week put up the most points against them. Weird right?
    =======================
    You understand this isn’t the only SB the Patriots have lost. Weird right?

  37. The Analytical Kid says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:21 am
    Funny, no one should think much of the Pats’ defense over the past decade.

    FUN FACT #1: The Pats’ defense over the past has averaged 19th in ranking. When this is contrasted with them having the luxury of playing in an otherwise QB-bereft division featuring 40% of their schedule every season against teams with offenses that have averaged 21st, 22nd, and 22nd in offense, it makes quite a statement.

    It should also end any debate as to which is more responsible for the Pats’ success during the BRADY era.
    ====================
    Yet there is very little room to argue the Pats defense carried the team for the first 2 SBs in the Brady era.

  38. Why do I think of Al Bundy when I think of the Eagles?

    I feel like theyll still be bringing up their one shining moment for the rest of their lives because they have nothing else to talk about.

    They won their ring. Congrats. But it’s time to move on.

  39. @ The Analytical Kid

    Not sure where your getting your facts from 9 of the last 10 years the patriot defense has been ranked in top 10 defenses. Of course cheating helps.

  40. Kelce is absolutely right! That said they won by 8 points (decided in large part by a trick play). Get over yourself already.

    Little room to debate the defenses of both teams were going to be the ultimate reason behind the loss. Sorry, there’s a small margin to debate the reason was because Foles was superior to Brady (rolleyes).

  41. .
    @iggles07

    “I’m as big Eagles fan, and I love Kelce….but dude, there’s nothing to be gained by repeatedly bashing the Pats or any other team for that matter.”
    _____

    Exactly, the 2017 season has ended. The Eagles have the Falcons in their opener. The Patriots have the Texans. Both teams better keep their eyes on the ball or they’ll be a quick 0-1.

    See Belichick’s famous quote,”We’re on to Cincinnati.” He said it because that was the next game on the schedule and consequently the only one with relevance.
    .

  42. GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:39 am
    Never seen a championship team who loved to talk about the team they beat this much. Tee hee. 🙂 It really is GREAT to see the back to back AFC and 5 time World Champion Patriots in people’s heads this much.

    If we’re being completely honest…that’s where they belong.

    🙂

    ————-

    Ummmm, when did you guys win 5 championships in a row ?

  43. what’s the point? the pats always have overall less talent than their playoff opponents because they pick last for 18 years and they never blow out the cap for a two year run at the title like everyone else. they are built and coached to contend every year, can’t possibly win it every year, but they are always there like a relentless nightmare. every other team tries to copy the superficial aspects of what they do, but they don’t have belichick’s genius and discipline.

  44. Even if true, the Pats are great at making in game adjustments and shutting down the opponent when it counts. In the past 2 SB wins they were only able to come back because the defense held the opponent scoreless in the 4th quarter. Same as the AFC Championship game against Jacksonville.

    ———————————-

    The Analytical Kid says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:21 am
    Funny, no one should think much of the Pats’ defense over the past decade.

    FUN FACT #1: The Pats’ defense over the past has averaged 19th in ranking.

  45. What is better…A one year winning streak or a two decade winning streak?Take a look at all the teams that have beaten the Patriots in the SB or the AFC CHAMPIONSHIP..giants,ravens,colts,broncos etc etc…you can have a seasons worth of “Where are they now” tv shows.Hey kelce glad you went from worst to first..now do it again….luck doesn’t count…ask the giants,ravens,colts,broncos etc….if you can find them.

  46. Can’t say I was impressed with the Pat’s D all season & they were fortunate to make it that far last year. Let’s see if the Clayborne signing brings some much needed pass rush.

  47. So Roger gave you a Super Bowl win by changing the rules during the game, just for the Eagles. The least they could do is accept it with grace. You can say a lot about the Pat’s, but you never hear them them talk disparagingly about an opponent, win or lose. They always give credit to the opponent.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Well….I remember the 18-1 season where Belichick ran off the field without shaking Coach Coughlin’s hand and Tom Brady not shaking hands with the quarterback of the team that just beat the Patriots…every time! He does stay on the field for those handshakes when he wins though. So let’s not set the Patriots up for sainthood.

  48. derekgorgonstar says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:33 am

    He lost that Super Bowl two years ago when he traded Chandler Jones.
    ———————————-

    He also won a Super Bowl 2 years ago after he traded Chandler Jones.
    Live by The Hoodie, die by The Hoodie. It may have escaped your attention but overall the living has been pretty good here.

    I tip my cap to the Eagles they made fewer mistakes than New England and won a wild game. Sometimes the other guy just gets a few more things right and wins the game, we call that football. It’s also part of football that the winner gets to do the talking, they earned the right.

  49. I believe most of us in New England would agree, and the stats support this. There’s reason for hope for a average defense this year though, as Patricia is gone and the optimism of roster additions through trades, injury recovery, and the late end of the draft. An average defense that can put some consistent pressure on the QB is all we need, but we can’t be porous like last year. Best present for Brady is a good defense, and we haven’t had one since the mid 2000’s Bill !

  50. dryzzt23 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:52 am
    Who is this clown?

    ———–

    I think he is the guy who also calls himself Lane Johnson. Could be an alias.

  51. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:45 am
    @ The Analytical Kid

    Not sure where your getting your facts from 9 of the last 10 years the patriot defense has been ranked in top 10 defenses. Of course cheating helps.
    =======================
    We get it you hate the Pats. Good luck with Tannehill.

  52. onemorethentherest says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:58 am

    GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:39 am
    Never seen a championship team who loved to talk about the team they beat this much. Tee hee. 🙂 It really is GREAT to see the back to back AFC and 5 time World Champion Patriots in people’s heads this much.

    If we’re being completely honest…that’s where they belong.

    🙂

    ————-

    Ummmm, when did you guys win 5 championships in a row ?

    ——————-
    Back to back AFC champs – yep.
    5 time World Champs – yep.

    If it was 5 in a row then I would say back to back to back to back to back. 🙂 We all know fans across the world would LOVE to see that! 🙂

  53. fireroger says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:43 am

    The Analytical Kid says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:21 am
    Funny, no one should think much of the Pats’ defense over the past decade.

    FUN FACT #1: The Pats’ defense over the past has averaged 19th in ranking. When this is contrasted with them having the luxury of playing in an otherwise QB-bereft division featuring 40% of their schedule every season against teams with offenses that have averaged 21st, 22nd, and 22nd in offense, it makes quite a statement.

    It should also end any debate as to which is more responsible for the Pats’ success during the BRADY era.
    ====================
    Yet there is very little room to argue the Pats defense carried the team for the first 2 SBs in the Brady era.

    —————————
    Eh. The 2003 defense was awesome, easily the best Patriots defense of the Brady era… but they did get lit up in the Super Bowl by Jake Delhomme. Even Foles is much better than Delhomme. It was BRADY that won that game in my arrogant opinion. 🙂

    The reins were on Brady in 01 for sure. Personally I think A. Smith was the unheralded MVP of the Patriots Super Bowl run in 01 and helped protect Brady. He was really good in 03 too.

  54. But but but Brady benefits from the best defense in football every single year!

    Lawl.

    😀

  55. The Analytical Kid says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:23 am

    It’s refreshing to see an honest Pats fan for a change!

    THANKS for your post!!
    ———————————-

    I get what you are saying, but to be fair, there are more “fake account” Pats fans than any other, who post incendiary comments so frequently to make Pats fans look really bad.

  56. OBP says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:36 am
    I’m not a Pats fan but I’m still shocked they doubled down on offense in the first, with how close the SB was I think the argument could be made that had the Pats been able to get pressure or been able to force Foles to hold it longer they could’ve won that game. Outside of Hightower they don’t have anyone worth much in that front 7 and they gave up perfect opportunities in the Draft to improve their defense.

    26 4 Rate This

    ————————

    pats were decimated by injuries and/or guys like branch and butler quitting on the team

    they also had needs on offense this offseason as they prep for certain players to leave or gouge for new deals

    bb is 2-3 steps ahead

    this whole claim about the d not being good while philly’s was great, is completely hilarious

    the difference was foles not being asleep in the 1st qtr like brady always is in a super bowl

    the pats d averaged 11.7 pts allowed for 8 straight games and allowed the fewest points from october 1 through week 17

    philly also was gifted 14 points in the super bowl, while the pats were not.

  57. what bothers me more is i don’t see where Bill has done anything to improve it, and without any pass rush it’s going to kill a now almost non- existent (except Gilmore) secondary.
    ——
    Adding veterans Jason McCourty, Danny Shelton, Adrian Clayborn and we get 2017 rookie Derek Rivers back from a lost rookie year and stud and SB LI unsung hero Dont’a Hightower back to lead the unit.

    IMO the defense had been greatly upgraded. Chin up 🙂

  58. @fireroger

    I know it has only been a few months since the Dolphins last put that beat down on the Patriots with Cutler but let it go bud. It’s not healthy.

  59. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:45 am
    @ The Analytical Kid

    Not sure where your getting your facts from 9 of the last 10 years the patriot defense has been ranked in top 10 defenses. Of course cheating helps.

    Riiiiight. We forgot the success is only and uniquely due to the secret invisible 12 month a year cheating that no one ever sees. It’s not the best QB and coach combo in history.

    Nothing like like crazy unprovable excuses to help your argument.

  60. xlivsaints says:
    July 19, 2018 at 10:37 am
    Patriots defense = oxymoron

    0 1 Rate This

    —————-

    says a saints fan allowing 30+ points in week 2 and the absolutely horrendous mickey loomis gm work for years and years down there

    lmao

    pats were the #1 overall d in 2016 and top 10 in 2014, winning sbs

    get a clue

  61. I don’t know if it was so much of a jab against the Patriots talent as much as it was a compliment to the Vikings talent and Patriots coaching. Kelce isn’t the type of guy to bad-mouth anyone. This isn’t the first time the media has extracted a potentially controversial quote from a longer, more insightful interview. That said…even as an Eagles fan, I do think it’s a little bit weird that one of the players (not Kelce…Lane Johnson) feels the need to keep bad-mouthing the Patriots organization. Not sure what his deal is. You won dude…why are you still obsessed with the Patriots? He comes off looking like an idiot for questioning how the most most successful football regime in the history of the NFL runs their organization. I love you Lane, but shut up already.

  62. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:45 am
    @ The Analytical Kid

    Not sure where your getting your facts from 9 of the last 10 years the patriot defense has been ranked in top 10 defenses. Of course cheating helps.

    ——–
    I’m sure it would. If the Pats cheated then they would go 19-0 every year and win every game 100-0!

    WOW! I’d LOVE to see that!

    #AndSoWouldYou
    #AdmitIt

  63. Well what does that say about the Eagles defense since the Patriots were just as prolific at moving the ball down the field as the Eagles were…. Patriots actually had more over all yards against the Eagles Defence. Better team won that day but let’s not pretend it was some kind of run away.

  64. I love how a guy who defense gave up 33 points in the most important game of the year is talking trash. Hey idiot, they won in SPITE of you and your crew not because of you. The offense did all the work and had to pull out every gadget play to do that. NE ran up and down the field on you to the tune of 615 yds of offense moron!

    So typical of Philly to act like you haven’t been there before and not have enough sense to be embarrassed. Will enjoy seeing you NOT repeat.

  65. @goodellmustgo

    That’s what makes it pathetic. They cheat and still can’t accomplish those goals. You should read my earlier post.

  66. GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 10:28 am
    onemorethentherest says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:58 am

    GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:39 am
    Never seen a championship team who loved to talk about the team they beat this much. Tee hee. 🙂 It really is GREAT to see the back to back AFC and 5 time World Champion Patriots in people’s heads this much.

    If we’re being completely honest…that’s where they belong.

    🙂

    ————-

    Ummmm, when did you guys win 5 championships in a row ?

    ——————-
    Back to back AFC champs – yep.
    5 time World Champs – yep.

    If it was 5 in a row then I would say back to back to back to back to back. 🙂 We all know fans across the world would LOVE to see that! 🙂

    3 0 Rate This

    I honestly would’ve loved to see you guys win that last game tho, then you could’ve been equal to 6Burgh. But you are stuck at 5 wins and 5 losses. Definitely isn’t 6-2 🙂

  67. I honestly would’ve loved to see you guys win that last game tho, then you could’ve been equal to 6Burgh. But you are stuck at 5 wins and 5 losses. Definitely isn’t 6-2 🙂

    ——–
    Don’t worry, you won’t have to wait long. 🙂

    What should we be called? Personally I like….New En6land!

  68. Despite all the injuries, the defense shut down the Jags in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game to reach the SB. Yes, they didn’t play their best in the SB you have to acknowledge the brilliant work Belichick and his did to get to the SB. That’s why Belichick is the undisputed GOAT.

  69. ikeclanton says:
    July 19, 2018 at 8:54 am
    Wait a minute……isn’t part of the Patriot-hater excuse train the notion that Brady is overrated because he has benefitted from some of the best defenses ever seen when he gets to Super Bowls? You mean, that’s not true?

    ——

    it’s called the Trump Syndrome. the excuse you need to use tomorrow may need to be different, and a polar opposite, of the excuse you need to use today.

  70. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:04 am

    @goodellmustgo

    That’s what makes it pathetic. They cheat and still can’t accomplish those goals. You should read my earlier post.
    ——
    Believe me if they cheated… we would know. 🙂

    Notice how every cheater in the history of sports have always had a whistleblower. Bonds, BALCO, Clemens, Armstrong, UNC, Ben Johnson, the Steelers in the 70’s, all of them. And yet it’s interesting… out of all the employees that have come and gone from the Patriots organization… many who have left on less than good terms… not one of them has ever gone on record with a definitive statement that they know the Patriots cheat, they’ve seen it happen for themselves, or they’ve been asked to participate in it.

    Not. One.

    Huh. I wonder why.

    #IKnowWhy
    #AndSoDoYou
    #WeAreSimplyBetterThanUInEveryWay
    #Period
    #Fact
    #Indisputable
    #Undeniable

  71. The Patriots roster is not immune to the desired effect of the salary cap, draft order for successful teams, and NFL draft sanctions/castration.They hid major deficiencies on defense for most of the year- Philadelphia exposed the deficiencies. It was no secret the defensive side of the ball was a weakness. Philadelphia was better and made the key defensive play to secure the game. Kudos to them. The Pats really had no business being a drive away from another Championship yet they were, it didn’t work out but, Kudos to them too.

  72. The Patriots have had good defenses for nearly 2 decades now. In fact, Tom Brady has enjoyed 14 Top 10 scoring defenses throughout his career. As a comparison, Aaron Rodgers has had only 2.

  73. nard1000 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 10:58 am
    I love how a guy who defense gave up 33 points in the most important game of the year is talking trash. Hey idiot, they won in SPITE of you and your crew not because of you. The offense did all the work and had to pull out every gadget play to do that. NE ran up and down the field on you to the tune of 615 yds of offense moron!

    So typical of Philly to act like you haven’t been there before and not have enough sense to be embarrassed. Will enjoy seeing you NOT repeat.
    ———————————————————
    Um, dude…Kelce plays on offense (center). Want to re-write that rant?

  74. Why can’t the Eagles stop obsessing over the Patriots? Dude, this is new season. Don’t be so sure about a SB repeat. Any number of teams can take you out. And why can’t the Kelce brothers learn to close their pie holes?

  75. Memo to Jason Kelce and other Philly players inclined to talk about the Pats. Just talk about the upcoming season. I’ve waited 55 years for this SB championship. I love every minute of it. However when I talk about it, I don’t mention New England at all.
    Atlanta is coming to town angry, plus there’s the raising the banner too. These dudes better be ready.

  76. Like my screen name says, the Pats are in their heads.
    I cannot remember a Super Bowl winner having so much to say about the team that they defeated. Since Kelce’s team needed A last-minute try to defeat this week defense, he might also want to do a critique of his own teams defense. Anyway, it sounds like we have the Eagles just where we want them. Let’s see if they get to 8-8 this year

  77. revelation123 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:31 am

    The Patriots have had good defenses for nearly 2 decades now. In fact, Tom Brady has enjoyed 14 Top 10 scoring defenses throughout his career. As a comparison, Aaron Rodgers has had only 2.
    ——-
    Scoring means a hair over squat when measuring the quality of a defense. But you already knew that. 🙂

  78. I honestly would’ve loved to see you guys win that last game tho, then you could’ve been equal to 6Burgh. But you are stuck at 5 wins and 5 losses. Definitely isn’t 6-2 🙂

    0 0 Rate This
    ——————

    cap era + a cheating commissioner

    pats dyansty>>pitt’s

  79. “Scoring means a hair over squat when measuring the quality of a defense. But you already knew that.”
    —————–

    You’re right, the primary job of a defense isn’t to prevent the other team from scoring… Please.

  80. tylawspick6 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:57 am

    I honestly would’ve loved to see you guys win that last game tho, then you could’ve been equal to 6Burgh. But you are stuck at 5 wins and 5 losses. Definitely isn’t 6-2 🙂

    0 0 Rate This
    ——————

    cap era + a cheating commissioner

    pats dyansty>>pitt’s

    ————————
    We didn’t need Dr Rydze to win either. 🙂

  81. Wow New England fans are completely unhinged LOL every single tiny little comment and they lose it. The Eagles spanked The Patriots and Pats fans are in clinical depression because the end is near. Brady is very close to done and so is Belichek.
    Once those 2 are gone people will go back to the old statement “New England doesn’t have an NFL team do they?”
    It is coming to an end very very soon!

  82. Eagles sure talk a lot for a franchise that has a whopping 1 title…let it go, you beat the Patriots, my gawd your Patriot envy is a little disturbing…Multiple players can’t stop talking about them…
    as for the clowns who say the Eagles spanked them- we must of been watching diff games…as far as defensive talent, Brady must not have been too impressed with the Eagles either…they ran all day and he kind of threw for over 500 yards and was the best player on the field that day…move on, quit living in the past…we are on to 2018…..maybe the Flyers will win a cup again, you know before hell freezes over

  83. Another Eagles player shooting their mouth out. This team has very quickly become the most annoying team in the NFL. Why don’t you do good more than once in 60 years before you shoot your mouth off?

  84. its time for these guys like Kelce and Johnson to listen to Chris Long and focus on business. Last year is done, celebrating is done, you’re a couple weeks from being 0-0 like every other team and hunted.

  85. steelcurtainn says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:44 am
    Backup Nick Foles torched the pats defense. That shows you how good they really were.

    ——

    Yes…..while your team was home watching from their living rooms…..again…. But hey, at least it wasn’t Tim Tebow who sent them home early last season so at least there is that.

  86. revelation123 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:02 pm

    “Scoring means a hair over squat when measuring the quality of a defense. But you already knew that.”
    —————–

    You’re right, the primary job of a defense isn’t to prevent the other team from scoring… Please.
    —————
    No. The primary job of a defense is to make the other team give up the ball as quickly as possible so their offense can take it.

    Amazing how uninformed so many fans are. Or at least pretend to be to suit their agenda. 🤔🤨

  87. Kelce is hilarious. He’s milking this for all its worth so hats off, I just hope he’s ready to play because every defensive lineman is going to challenge him. Its hard to hide when you play center.

  88. Been watching this sport for decades and have never witnessed worse fans than the northeasters. You just have to laugh.

  89. Oh boy! Here we go (again). They cheated and were given two free TD’s. No, Brady tore up the Eagles defense. Foles was MVP. Tom wasn’t. The Eagles won. The Pats lost. It’s time for the NEW season. Last year is history.

  90. No. The primary job of a defense is to make the other team give up the ball as quickly as possible so their offense can take it.

    Amazing how uninformed so many fans are. Or at least pretend to be to suit their agenda. 🤔🤨

    1 1 Rate This

    ———————-

    umm, not in this era it isn’t. if you are not earning your keep in the red zone and creating timely turnovers, you are not much of a defense.

    ne had a very good red zone d last year so philly playing more of a downfield game outside the red zone was a good move on their part

    yards allowed is the most overrated stat in sports in such a favorable offensive era

  91. williamshatnerstoupee says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:30 pm
    Been watching this sport for decades and have never witnessed worse fans than the northeasters. You just have to laugh.

    0 0 Rate This

    ——————

    aren’t you from
    pa or are you a bandwagon steelers
    fan?

  92. There is a reason that Josh McDaniels was wooed back by Belichick and Kraft. Brady and him are the reason they achieved any success in 2017. The crazy thing is Matt Patricia got a head coaching job after heading the 29th ranked defense in the league last year.

    Belichick is by all means a defensive coach and that is where his focus has always been in his career, which is interesting considering all the praise he continues to receive and how horrible his recent defenses have been.

    If it wasn’t for Dick Rehbein pushing for Tom Brady to be drafted, Belichick would probably would be the linebackers coach for Alabama right now

  93. I’m not a Pats fan but I’m still shocked they doubled down on offense in the first, with how close the SB was I think the argument could be made that had the Pats been able to get pressure or been able to force Foles to hold it longer they could’ve won that game. Outside of Hightower they don’t have anyone worth much in that front 7 and they gave up perfect opportunities in the Draft to improve their defense.
    ———————
    Let’s be honest. I’m not a Pat fan nor am I a hater, but if my teams defense had to play Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets twice a year I’d double down on offense too. Look at the QBs they’ve had to face for the past several years!!! When your toughest divisional opponent is lead by Ryan Tannehill or Tyrod Taylor how worried should a DC be? I’m a Lions fan and I’m curios to see how game planning for ARod and Cousins compares to last season of Cutler and fill in the blank for the Jets.

  94. Its like this every year. Yap yap yap, then the games start and the Patriots are winning them. Next thing you know they are in the Superbowl yet again. Rinse and repeat.

  95. Yes…..while your team was home watching from their living rooms…..again…. But hey, at least it wasn’t Tim Tebow who sent them home early last season so at least there is that.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    That’s okay, I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.

  96. williamshatnerstoupee says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:53 pm
    One of the northeastern trolls makes his hourly appearance.
    ——————————-

    That patsanoia is really advanced. When you get to the point where it spills over to obsessing about one of their fanboys it may well be past the point of recovery.

  97. tylawspick6 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    No. The primary job of a defense is to make the other team give up the ball as quickly as possible so their offense can take it.

    Amazing how uninformed so many fans are. Or at least pretend to be to suit their agenda. 🤔🤨

    1 1 Rate This

    ———————-

    umm, not in this era it isn’t. if you are not earning your keep in the red zone and creating timely turnovers, you are not much of a defense.

    ne had a very good red zone d last year so philly playing more of a downfield game outside the red zone was a good move on their part

    yards allowed is the most overrated stat in sports in such a favorable offensive era

    —–
    No offense but that couldn’t be further from the truth. And It’s not just yards either it’s 3rd down conversions and the Patriots were not good at that either.

    That might be fine for some teams. Not this one. It’s not a compliment to have a defense that happily allow third downs to become first downs and yards eating up clock and keeping the all time great QB off the field. I’ll take the shutdown defense that can make plays and get the ball to Brady as often as possible as quickly as possible. Every. Time.

    When you can’t get stops and do what you’re suppsed to do to get your GOAT QB back on the field as quickly as possible as often as possible then you’re not doing your job. So yes yards, 3rd down% and metrics like that are far more important than points allowed in my opinion. With an offense like this, 0 points allowed could realistically mean 0 points scored.

  98. To use an example that I used before… two parallel universes.

    Patriots kick off to Steelers. In 7 minutes Steelers methodically march down the field using Bell, and a short passing game to get to the Pats 20, converting a bunch of 3rd downs on the way. Then they miss a FG. 0-0 score

    In an alternate universe… Patriots also kick off to Steelers. This time the Pats defense gets a 3 and out. Brady takes the ball back and marches down the field and the Pats score a TD, all in the span of 7 minutes. 7-0 Pats

    Even though both times the defense allowed 0 points, it’s right there in cold hard numbers why “points allowed” means a tad over squat for measuring the quality of a defense and which defense I’d rather have every single time.

  99. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 10:44 am
    @fireroger

    I know it has only been a few months since the Dolphins last put that beat down on the Patriots with Cutler but let it go bud. It’s not healthy.
    ===============================
    Well the Pats SB appearance went a long way towards easing that pain. Second only to knowing that same Fin team was watching them get there from their TVs at home. Pats lost a division game late in the season and … it didn’t even matter.

    I’m not even sure I can tell the difference between Cutler and Tannehill. Hopefully Amendola can show that team what it takes to make a difference.

  100. vaphinfan says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:04 am
    @goodellmustgo

    That’s what makes it pathetic. They cheat and still can’t accomplish those goals. You should read my earlier post.
    =========================
    So clearly the goal of cheating is to make sure it has no bearing on the end result. If the cheating “works” at times and “not” during others it most likely stands to reason the cheating ain’t no big thang or they just simple stink at doing it.

  101. I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.

    —–
    Actually it is far more accurate to say they not only lost to Tebow, they were completely shredded and powned by TEBOW. Of all people. That’s a distinction the Steelers will always wear and it does taint much of their legacy and aura. Forever.

    “Lose in a playoff game”…lawlercopter.

  102. GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:20 pm
    To use an example that I used before… two parallel universes.

    Patriots kick off to Steelers. In 7 minutes Steelers methodically march down the field using Bell, and a short passing game to get to the Pats 20, converting a bunch of 3rd downs on the way. Then they miss a FG. 0-0 score

    In an alternate universe… Patriots also kick off to Steelers. This time the Pats defense gets a 3 and out. Brady takes the ball back and marches down the field and the Pats score a TD, all in the span of 7 minutes. 7-0 Pats

    Even though both times the defense allowed 0 points, it’s right there in cold hard numbers why “points allowed” means a tad over squat for measuring the quality of a defense and which defense I’d rather have every single time.

    1 2 Rate This

    —————

    the point is, in a very favorable offensive era, red zone d and turnovers are more the priority than teams getting constant pi calls against them and other ways goodell uses to want more scoring, and hence in his mind, better ratings.

  103. I can understand Eagles players and fans lack of humility. After all those years of futility, The Championship game losses, the SBowl loss to the Pats, it must have felt good to finally win something. Before that, they were just Buffalo South. Also rans.

  104. GoodellMustGo says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:15 pm
    tylawspick6 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:46 pm

    No. The primary job of a defense is to make the other team give up the ball as quickly as possible so their offense can take it.

    Amazing how uninformed so many fans are. Or at least pretend to be to suit their agenda. 🤔🤨

    1 1 Rate This

    ———————-

    umm, not in this era it isn’t. if you are not earning your keep in the red zone and creating timely turnovers, you are not much of a defense.

    ne had a very good red zone d last year so philly playing more of a downfield game outside the red zone was a good move on their part

    yards allowed is the most overrated stat in sports in such a favorable offensive era

    —–
    No offense but that couldn’t be further from the truth. And It’s not just yards either it’s 3rd down conversions and the Patriots were not good at that either.

    That might be fine for some teams. Not this one. It’s not a compliment to have a defense that happily allow third downs to become first downs and yards eating up clock and keeping the all time great QB off the field. I’ll take the shutdown defense that can make plays and get the ball to Brady as often as possible as quickly as possible. Every. Time.

    When you can’t get stops and do what you’re suppsed to do to get your GOAT QB back on the field as quickly as possible as often as possible then you’re not doing your job. So yes yards, 3rd down% and metrics like that are far more important than points allowed in my opinion. With an offense like this, 0 points allowed could realistically mean 0 points scored.

    1 2 Rate This

    —————————-

    tell me, if brady is so great which he is, why does he need all star weaponry all around him and why doesn’t bb draft all defense?

    the answer is very simple: offense wins championships today, not defense

    you need a greag offense and just a good defense that holds to field goals

    no team puts out great defenses anymore. it is a myth

    denver’s got tuned up in a super bowl, seattle’s also got tuned up, atlanta etc.

    this isn’t 1987 anymore

  105. steelcurtainn says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    That’s okay, I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.
    ———————————————-

    I didn’t realize Steelers fans were happy getting knocked out of the tournament early. Did you send the Jags a thank you card? Using your (ahem) logic Browns fans should be the happiest in the league, just look at all the disappointment born of unfulfilled high expectations they’ve avoided.

  106. williamshatnerstoupee says:
    July 19, 2018 at 12:30 pm
    Been watching this sport for decades and have never witnessed worse fans than the northeasters. You just have to laugh.
    ___________________________________________

    I wish I could give this 1000+ thumbs up. I was thinking the same thing…well, I’ve been thinking that for 40+ years.

  107. steelcurtainn says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:06 pm

    That’s okay, I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.

    ———

    Well you won’t be disappointed when Tomlin and team are done early once again this coming season. Good for you!

  108. tylawspick6 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:49 pm

    tell me, if brady is so great which he is, why does he need all star weaponry all around him and why doesn’t bb draft all defense?

    ==================================================================

    Ha ha- do you actually think that Brady has “all star weaponry” around him?
    Other than Gronk, who would you consider an “all star”?

  109. williamshatnerstoupee says:
    July 19, 2018 at 2:13 pm
    Such a thin-skinned bunch. Can dish it out, but can never take it.

    ———–

    Who? Patriots fans? Kelce talks about the Patriots more than we do. He’s obsessed.

  110. iceman9999 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 2:21 pm
    tylawspick6 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:49 pm
    tell me, if brady is so great which he is, why does he need all star weaponry all around him and why doesn’t bb draft all defense?
    ==================================================================
    Ha ha- do you actually think that Brady has “all star weaponry” around him?
    Other than Gronk, who would you consider an “all star”?

    ————

    I think Edelman is an all star. He didn’t start out that way, but he is now. He’s also one of the top punt returners of all time.

    That’s about it in addition to Gronk on the offense. Maybe White is close too. Also, the new RB, Sony Michel could be good. Jury is still out.

    However, the rest of the guys aren’t bums. They are good smart players. Depth and reliability over pure talent.

  111. July 19, 2018 at 1:06 pm
    Yes…..while your team was home watching from their living rooms…..again…. But hey, at least it wasn’t Tim Tebow who sent them home early last season so at least there is that.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________
    That’s okay, I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.

    ———-

    The Steelers lost to Bortles!

  112. Ha ha- do you actually think that Brady has “all star weaponry” around him?
    Other than Gronk, who would you consider an “all star”?

    1 0 Rate This

    —————-

    moss, welker, gronk, edelman

    he has always had two really nice all star binkies since 2007 and an array of other nice options as well. His scatbacks have always been nice, too.

    have you been in a coma?

    the only years where he lacked were 2006, 2009 (rebuilding on the fly), 2013 (rookies$….

  113. steelcurtainn says:
    July 19, 2018 at 1:06 pm
    ———————————
    That’s okay, I’m sure the Steelers would much rather lose in a playoff game a decade ago no matter who the qb is then on the big stage to a backup in foles.
    ———————————————————————

    Why do so many non-Pats fans on this site believe it is better to not make the playoffs, or it is better to lose on Wild-Card weekend, or in the Divisional Round (at home, to Blake Bortles’ Jaguars), or in the Championship game, than it is to make the Super Bowl and lose?

    Why do so many non-Pats fans fear the Super Bowl, and embrace failure?

  114. “Backup Nick Foles torched the pats defense. That shows you how good they really were.”

    Yeah except Foles was not some mediocre backup that’s barely capable like most backups are. He was just a couple years removed from being a pro bowl QB with either 27 or 28 TDs and only 2 INTs that season.

    He played well for the Eagles and is obviously a capable starter when given proper coaching. Kudos to Foles, the Eagles and their coaches, but this “beaten by a backup” mantra is lame.

  115. Welker was an all-star? He was a undrafted journeyman from Miami with a grand total of 1 career receiving TD before he joined New England. Brady made him a star.
    Edelman was a 7th round pick who played QB in college.

    It’s not like they were all-stars who signed on as free agents (or were traded for) to give Brady the “all star weaponry” he needed around him.

    I’ll give you Moss (who Brady played with for only 2 years) and Gronk.

    So, essentially, over a period of 18 years, Brady has had two true all-star caliber talents playing with him, with no overlap- i.e., no more than one all-star at a time.

  116. “The primary job of a defense is to make the other team give up the ball as quickly as possible so their offense can take it.”
    ———

    That’s a part of preventing the other team from scoring…which is a defense’s primary job.

  117. Why do so many non-Pats fans on this site believe it is better to not make the playoffs, or it is better to lose on Wild-Card weekend, or in the Divisional Round (at home, to Blake Bortles’ Jaguars), or in the Championship game, than it is to make the Super Bowl and lose?

    ——-

    because those other results are what their teams do, so it allows them to beleive their teams are not as inferior as they actually are.

  118. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    July 19, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Despite all the injuries, the defense shut down the Jags in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game to reach the SB. Yes, they didn’t play their best in the SB you have to acknowledge the brilliant work Belichick and his did to get to the SB. That’s why Belichick is the undisputed GOAT.

    ———————————–

    Typical “fake Pats fan” post.

    What game did you watch? Because Patriots D certainly didn’t shut down Jags anything. Brady making good drives, and the Jags going more conservative/clock killing on play calling is what slowed the game, and Bortles missing throws. That was an embarrassing effort by the Pats D.

    Every Pats fan was holding their breath on that last 4th down play- fully expecting the D to give up a 1st down like they did all game, and all year- it took an amazing play by Gilmore- he literally defied gravity and hovered- he earned his money on that play. You could literally hear the sigh of relief in the stadium on the broadcast.

  119. Let’s be honest. I’m not a Pat fan nor am I a hater, but if my teams defense had to play Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets twice a year I’d double down on offense too. Look at the QBs they’ve had to face for the past several years!!! When your toughest divisional opponent is lead by Ryan Tannehill or Tyrod Taylor how worried should a DC be?
    ———–
    Patriots’ have about the same win percentage outside of the division as within it during the Brady/Belichick era. They have a better record against teams with a winning record than any other team during this time by far, and an even better record against teams that made the playoffs.

    The idea that the Patriots are good because they play in the lowly AFC east is bunk. The AFC East looks bad only because they each have to play the Patriots twice.

  120. The idea that the Patriots are good because they play in the lowly AFC east is bunk. The AFC East looks bad only because they each have to play the Patriots twice.

    —–

    one year the Bills went 0-6 in the AFC East but 5-1 against their other AFC opponents.

  121. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    July 19, 2018 at 11:19 am

    Despite all the injuries, the defense shut down the Jags in the 4th quarter of the AFC championship game to reach the SB. Yes, they didn’t play their best in the SB you have to acknowledge the brilliant work Belichick and his did to get to the SB. That’s why Belichick is the undisputed GOAT.

    =================================

    Pats D shutting down Bortles and co for a quarter was important for the win, but no one is afraid of Bortles in the 4th qtr of a playoff game. Pats D was not good last year against good teams. Against their top 9 opponents they faced last year they gave up 26pts/gm. Not good. Brady and the offense were the ones keeping them competitive against the best teams they faced. Not disputable.

  122. revelation123 says:

    July 19, 2018 at 11:31 am

    The Patriots have had good defenses for nearly 2 decades now. In fact, Tom Brady has enjoyed 14 Top 10 scoring defenses throughout his career. As a comparison, Aaron Rodgers has had only 2.

    ===========================================

    Points against is not a great stat indicator for how a defense performed. Defensive DVOA a much more precise stat. Pats were a “top 5” defense in scoring allowed last year but were 29th in yards allowed (and 31st in DVOA). The Pats defense was terrible against good teams. The best 9 teams they played last year had a 26pts/gm average and yet they had a 18.5pts/gm average overall. It proves were exposed against good teams.

    They gave up a ton of yards and good offenses finish long drives with more points.

    And to your Rodgers point, check out the DVOAs GB vs Pats over Rodgers career:

    2008 – GB 12th (Pats 17th)
    2009 – GB 2nd (Pats 14th)
    2010 – GB 2nd (Pats 21st)
    2011 – GB 25th (Pats 30th)
    2012 – GB 8th (Pats 15th)
    2013 – GB 31st (Pats 20th)
    2014- GB 16th (Pats 12th)
    2015 – GB 9th (Pats 12th)
    2016 – GB 20th (Pats 16th)
    2017- GB 20th (Pats 31st)

    Packers avg, = 14.5 Patriots avg. = 18.8

    Its pretty even, with Rodgers team defenses getting the edge over Bradys.

  123. well he’s not wrong. Just about as bad a showing as any SB defense ever. The Patriots offense never had to punt the ball….and the team still lost.
    As it is, Philly might wanna turn the page, stop being graceless winners and focus on the upcoming season.
    Oh I forgot; we are on the verge of the inevitable Eagles dynasty.
    Just like GB after the 2010 season.
    And Seattle after 2013, etc….

  124. “Points against is not a great stat indicator for how a defense performed. Defensive DVOA a much more precise stat. Pats were a “top 5” defense in scoring allowed last year but were 29th in yards allowed”
    ————

    It’s a well known axiom that defense wins championships. So then it should be no surprise that Tom Brady has never won a championship without a Top 10 scoring defense. Ever.

    The most fundamental job of any NFL defense is to prevent the opposing offense from scoring more points than their own offense does.

    The number of points allowed by a defense is the most fundamental aspect in determining how well an NFL defense has performed. Enclosed, opinion-based, proprietary, 3rd party statistics whose equations are hidden from public view have never proved to be a more adequate way of determining the quality of a defense over the NFL’s official defensive points allowed statistic. This is why the Patriots have never won a Super Bowl without a Top 10 scoring defense.

    Team Defensive Rank: Scoring (Brady/Rodgers)

    6th/NA (Patriots Won Super Bowl)
    17th/NA (Patriots missed playoffs entirely)
    1st/NA (Patriots Won Super Bowl)
    2nd/NA (Patriots Won Super Bowl)
    17th/NA (Patriots lost Divisional)
    2nd/NA (Patriots lost Conference)
    4th/NA (Patriots lost Super Bowl)
    8th/22nd (Brady tore ACL/Rodgers first season)
    5th/7th (both lost in the Wild Card)
    8th/2nd (Patriots lost in the Wild Card/Packers won Super Bowl)
    15th/19th (Patriots lost Super Bowl/Packers lost Divisional)
    9th/11th (Patriots lost Conference/Packers lost Divisional)
    10th/24th (Patriots lost Conference/Packers lost Wild Card)
    8th/13th (Patriots won Super Bowl/Packers lost Conference)
    10th/12th (Patriots lost Conference/Packers lost Divisional)
    1st/21st (Patriots won Super Bowl/Packers lost Conference)
    5th/26th (Patriots lost Super Bowl/Rodgers broken collarbone)

    Average Team Defensive Rank: (Brady/Rodgers)

    7.5th/15.7th

  125. Packers avg, = 14.5 Patriots avg. = 18.8

    Its pretty even, with Rodgers team defenses getting the edge over Bradys.
    ======

    There’s nothing even close to even.

    The Packers post-season losses are like derailed train cars, one bit of carnage after another. They re-define losing.

    Sure, the Patriots haven’t been a great defense since 2004. But they’re superior to the Packers in every way defensively, and if you believe otherwise, you simply haven’t been watching.

    The Patriots make stops.

    The Packers fold like a K-Mart deck chair, especially when it matters.

  126. It’s a well known axiom that defense wins championships. So then it should be no surprise that Tom Brady has never won a championship without a Top 10 scoring defense. Ever.
    ======

    Bingo!

  127. They were a score away from being Champions. That defense overperformed, if anything. I’m proud of them.

  128. no team puts out great defenses anymore. it is a myth
    ======

    The Seahawks did things that hadn’t been done in 60 years.

    And they should have 2 Super Bowls to show for it.

  129. revelation123 says:

    July 19, 2018 at 6:12 pm

    “Points against is not a great stat indicator for how a defense performed. Defensive DVOA a much more precise stat. Pats were a “top 5” defense in scoring allowed last year but were 29th in yards allowed”
    ————

    It’s a well known axiom that defense wins championships. So then it should be no surprise that Tom Brady has never won a championship without a Top 10 scoring defense. Ever.

    ==========

    Sigh… Pats have had some good defensive years and some bad ones (like last years). If you shutdown the Jets offense but give up 30 to Kansas City, your points against avg will still look pretty good. Doesn’t mean your defense is all that good. DVOA is much better stat.

    Pats D DVOAs in Super Bowl appearance years…

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

  130. It’s a well known axiom that defense wins championships. So then it should be no surprise that Tom Brady has never won a championship without a Top 10 scoring defense. Ever.
    ——
    So? Joe Montana has never qualified for a Super Bowl without a top 10 defense in both points AND yards.

    Brady has. 🙂

    Try again.

  131. Allowing 0 points and 0 yards on a drive >>>>> allowing 0 points and 80 yards. They are by no means equal.

    All other opinions are trash.

    🙂

  132. aarons444 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 6:25 pm
    no team puts out great defenses anymore. it is a myth
    ======

    The Seahawks did things that hadn’t been done in 60 years.

    And they should have 2 Super Bowls to show for it.

    ===============

    Ravens, Bucs and Bears might have something to say about that. And why “should” the Seattle D have 2 exactly? They blew it against Brady. The Butler Int was only possible because the Seattle D gave up a go ahead drive and then Kearse’s miracle catch.

  133. Pats fans are delusional. Are you actually talking about injuries as an excuse why the Eagles beat you?

  134. Ravens, Bucs and Bears might have something to say about that. And why “should” the Seattle D have 2 exactly?
    ======

    You know why they SHOULD have two. But they don’t.

    The Ravens and Bucs didn’t sustain.

    The Bears did, that was the best D I’ve ever seen. But they Seahawks did things that hadn’t been done since the merger.

    .. thumbs down for leaving out the Steel Curtain.

  135. Allowing 0 points and 0 yards on a drive >>>>> allowing 0 points and 80 yards. They are by no means equal.
    ======

    In a 7-0 game? Or a 10-0 win??

    Not sure about the new math these days…

  136. Why do the Eagles feel the need to keep talking smack? We all know you are good. You won the Superbowl. Talk all the crap you want but the Patriots have one more Superbowls than you ever will. The players are such a reflection of the awful fans in that town.

  137. aarons444 says:
    July 20, 2018 at 9:30 am

    Allowing 0 points and 0 yards on a drive >>>>> allowing 0 points and 80 yards. They are by no means equal.
    ======

    In a 7-0 game? Or a 10-0 win??

    Not sure about the new math these days…
    ———————————
    0 points and 0 yards allowed still >>>>>> 0 points and 80 yards. One defense did their job, the other not so much.

    Give it up man, the Patriots defense clearly isn’t nearly as good as you’d like to think it is. Looking at scoring defense alone is an uninformed way to evaluate a defense, just like looking at yards alone. As is the case with Rodgers, Brady and his offense carry this team and any success they have is on him. Period. The reverse hasn’t been true in almost 2 decades. 🙂

    I definitely am looking forward to GB vs NE in November. Not too often you get Brady vs Rodgers and it should be a treat.

  138. Sigh… Pats have had some good defensive years and some bad ones (like last years). If you shutdown the Jets offense but give up 30 to Kansas City, your points against avg will still look pretty good. Doesn’t mean your defense is all that good. DVOA is much better stat.

    Pats D DVOAs in Super Bowl appearance years…

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

    ————————-
    The last time the Patriots had a truly elite defense was 2003. As the numbers above clearly show. And so does the eye test.

    It really is hilarious how people insist that using criticisms of Brady from 2002 are still valid today. Tee hee.

  139. Things only uninformed fans say (and actually have said) about Brady:
    – Brady does not have a strong arm
    – Brady needs Belichick be good
    – Brady was drafted in the 6th round, therefore he cannot possibly be the greatest.
    – Brady is just like Trent Dilfer
    – Brady is nothing without a top defense to carry him every week
    – Brady is nothing without a good kicker
    – Brady would suck without secret spy cameras telling him what the defense is doing
    – Brady needs to deflate footballs to be good
    – When the Patriots win, Brady deserves no credit whatsoever. Wins are team stats.
    – When the Patriots lose, haha Brady lost the game and he choked.

    So many lulz in there I really don’t know what to do with them all! Tee hee 🙂

  140. aarons444 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 6:25 pm

    no team puts out great defenses anymore. it is a myth
    ======

    The Seahawks did things that hadn’t been done in 60 years.

    And they should have 2 Super Bowls to show for it.

    —————-
    The should game is fun. I say the Patriots should be 8-0 in the Brady era in Super Bowls. 🙂

  141. Give it up man, the Patriots defense clearly isn’t nearly as good as you’d like to think it is. Looking at scoring defense alone is an uninformed way to evaluate a defense, just like looking at yards alone
    =======

    No, I don’t think I will. 🙂

    I watch a team that can’t stop anybody, and hasn’t in 7 years, least of all when it matters. The anti-Belichick defense.

    I’m not arguing the Pats defense is great. But I certainly won’t listen to talk that points don’t matter most.

    Belichick engineers a defense that makes stops more often than not. What is his Super Bowl count? 12? I’m not even going to bother counting Championship Games. The man is a genius. A legend.

    He knows defense, and he almost always fields a good one. By design.

  142. I definitely am looking forward to GB vs NE in November. Not too often you get Brady vs Rodgers and it should be a treat.
    ======

    Rodgers V Brady, yes.

    Belichick V McCarthy…. not so much.

    That’s like prime Mike Tyson V Rhonda Rousey.

  143. aarons444 says:

    He knows defense, and he almost always fields a good one. By design.

    ============================

    Obviously Belichick is an amazing, genius defensive mind. He’s been to 11 Super Bowls, 8 as head coach. He often has drawn out great performances from players of merely average talent.

    But, the Pats have had some average-to-just-plain-bad defenses and still had success. Last years defense was “top 5” in points allowed but were truly bad when facing good teams (26 pts/gm allowed against their top 9 opponents last year). They were not good. They gave up a ton of yards (29th in NFL) and had no pass rush. They were the defense responsible for the first time in NFL history that a QB threw for 500yds/0INTS and still lost the game. To Nick Foles. In the Super Bowl. Not good, not “top 5”.

  144. No, I don’t think I will. 🙂

    I watch a team that can’t stop anybody, and hasn’t in 7 years, least of all when it matters. The anti-Belichick defense.

    I’m not arguing the Pats defense is great. But I certainly won’t listen to talk that points don’t matter most.

    Belichick engineers a defense that makes stops more often than not. What is his Super Bowl count? 12? I’m not even going to bother counting Championship Games. The man is a genius. A legend.

    He knows defense, and he almost always fields a good one. By design.
    ———-
    The way I see it- there is absolutely no difference between a Patriots defense they allows 0 points on a drive but gives up 80 yards and couldn’t get off the field on 3rd down- preventing Brady and the offense from getting on the field and scoring 7….. and a defense which actually did give up 7. 🙂

    I want to see my team give up 0 and get off the field… to make room and time for 12 to do what he does best. Gimme that every single time.

    Points matter but they can’t be looked at in a vacuum and that’s why.

  145. Obviously Belichick is an amazing, genius defensive mind. He’s been to 11 Super Bowls, 8 as head coach. He often has drawn out great performances from players of merely average talent.

    But, the Pats have had some average-to-just-plain-bad defenses and still had success. Last years defense was “top 5” in points allowed but were truly bad when facing good teams (26 pts/gm allowed against their top 9 opponents last year). They were not good. They gave up a ton of yards (29th in NFL) and had no pass rush. They were the defense responsible for the first time in NFL history that a QB threw for 500yds/0INTS and still lost the game. To Nick Foles. In the Super Bowl. Not good, not “top 5”.

    ——-
    People go over the top ripping the AFC East… but the thing is they have a teeny bit of a point when it comes to offenses in the division. The defenses have been very good and by themselves certainly not worthy of the “WURST DIVIZION EVUR!1!1!1!” talk. But with the offenses I’ll be real- there hasn’t been much competition on that side of the balk over the years. Maybe the Sanchez-Holmes-LT Jets I guess?

    Is it any surprise that a mediocre Patriot defense allows less points when they face the McCowns, Taylor’s and Tannehill’s 6 games a year? What happens when they play a good or great offense? See 52, Bowl, Super.

  146. People go over the top ripping the AFC East…
    =====

    Justified.

    The AFC East is responsible for the fewest amount of playoff appearances since realignment, basically the Brady-era. That’s counting the Pats, who have made it virtually every year.

    The Bills and Dolphins haven’t even won a Playoff game since realignment.

  147. Let’s not a forget the Pats won their first 3 rings before Polian watered down defenses. Since Bitter Bill implemented the rules changes, the Pats have had less incentive to invest in defensive all-pros such as Law or M Harrison since they way the played the game has been legislated out. Pick a team any team you like & watch the footage from 2005 or before & you can see the difference (life before illegal contact)

    But I’ll agree with the Pork Rollers on this one, that D was terrible most of the year & has to improve

  148. So? Joe Montana has never qualified for a Super Bowl without a top 10 defense in both points AND yards. Brady has.
    ————–

    So defense wins Championships. “Winning” is different than “qualifying”. Nice try moving the goalposts though.

    The Patriots with Brady have never won a Super Bowl without a top 10 scoring defense. Neither has Montana. Again, it’s typical due to the axiom that “Defense wins championships”. It takes a great team to win a Super Bowl, not a great QB.

  149. “Allowing 0 points and 0 yards on a drive >>>>> allowing 0 points and 80 yards.”
    ——————–

    Definitely. Just the same:

    Allowing 300 yards and 0 points > Allowing 200 yards and 20 points.

    Another primary reason yardage allowed is practically worthless stat is due to the fact that defenses will willingly give up yards in order to prevent points and run out the clock. This happens often on teams with high flying offenses like the Patriots and Packers. These offenses will score so many points that the opposing team is often just trying to catch up in garbage time, racking up more yardage than they would have under normal circumstances.

  150. As someone said above getting rid of chandler jones was a mistake.

    Hightower is okay oft injured. We were told it was going to be 2 of the 4 and it ended up being 1 of the 4. I can say I liked Hightower and Jones as the two I would keep. Everyone was so big on butler up here, I wasn’t a big fan. I never thought he was a #1 guy but I guess we will find out.

  151. revelation123 says:

    July 21, 2018 at 2:44 pm

    “Allowing 0 points and 0 yards on a drive >>>>> allowing 0 points and 80 yards.”
    ——————–

    Definitely. Just the same:

    Allowing 300 yards and 0 points > Allowing 200 yards and 20 points.

    Another primary reason yardage allowed is practically worthless stat is due to the fact that defenses will willingly give up yards in order to prevent points and run out the clock. This happens often on teams with high flying offenses like the Patriots and Packers. These offenses will score so many points that the opposing team is often just trying to catch up in garbage time, racking up more yardage than they would have under normal circumstances.

    ======================================

    Your still dancing around the simple fact that shutting down bad teams in the regular season does not mean your a “top 5” defense especially when playing a good offense (ie like the ones you’ll be facing in the playoffs). And giving up lots of yards but not that many points still invariably hurts the team’s offense. Points against average is an indicator of how a defense is doing but its obviously incomplete taken by itself or in comparison to other stats. I’ve already proven so.

  152. rdforty2 says:
    July 19, 2018 at 9:43 a

    They won their ring. Congrats. But it’s time to move on
    ————————————————————————

    MOVE ON??? NEVER!!! #LII #bleedgreen

  153. W says:

    July 19, 2018 at 3:23 pm

    Let’s be honest. I’m not a Pat fan nor am I a hater, but if my teams defense had to play Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets twice a year I’d double down on offense too. Look at the QBs they’ve had to face for the past several years!!! When your toughest divisional opponent is lead by Ryan Tannehill or Tyrod Taylor how worried should a DC be?
    ———–
    Patriots’ have about the same win percentage outside of the division as within it during the Brady/Belichick era. They have a better record against teams with a winning record than any other team during this time by far, and an even better record against teams that made the playoffs.

    The idea that the Patriots are good because they play in the lowly AFC east is bunk. The AFC East looks bad only because they each have to play the Patriots twice.

    ——————————–

    The Patriots have to play in the AFC. The AFC is awful compared to the NFC most years. The only yearly contenders Steelers, Pats. That’s it! Everyone else changes and wins to 9-10 games and gets in

    The NFC is a tougher conference.

  154. The NFC is a tougher conference.
    =====

    It is now.

    It wasn’t 10 years ago, with really good Steeler teams that went to 3 SBs, and the Colts who got to two.

    But the Pats only played the Steelers once during their peak, Rothlisbergers rookie year, and they really whipped Manning in the early matchups… so you’re probably right. Ha ha!

    .. honorable mention to the Ravens who pummeled Belichick a couple times, both in NE

  155. Since 2002 realignment, in inter conference matchups, the AFC has an edge with a W-L of 500-494 over the NFC. And that’s with the NFC getting a big record boost this past year with a 41-23 mark against the AFC.

    And Brady’s career winning pct. is not much different between the conferences.
    vs. AFC .778
    vs. NFC .766

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!