Riveron explains key reversal in Browns-Raiders game

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Late in regulation on Sunday in Oakland, the Browns could have iced the game, or come close to it, if running back Carlos Hyde had converted a rushing attempt on third and two. It initially appeared that he did. After further review, he didn’t.

NFL senior V.P. of officiating Al Riveron explained to PFT the decision to overturn the ruling on the field during halftime of the Ravens-Steelers game.

It was actually a simple process. From one angle, Riveron could see that, when Hyde’s wrist was done, his elbow also was down. From another angle, Riveron could see that, when Hyde’s wrist was down (and thus the elbow was done), the ball was well short of the line to gain.

“The angles definitely gave me a view and perspective that he was short,” Riveron said.

Riverson said that, when the wrist/elbow were down, he could see that the ball clearly was short of the orange stick and the pad on which it rests. So that’s why the ruling on the field was overturned, why the Browns didn’t get a first down that would have likely ended the game, and why the Raiders had an opportunity to force overtime.

73 responses to “Riveron explains key reversal in Browns-Raiders game

  1. Millions of people saw the play – can and have made their own opinion. Riveron feels the need to explain himself because his opinion is opposite what everybody saw.

  2. In other words – “trust me I saw something you didn’t and I know what I’m doing even if the video shows I’m an imbecile”? Great look for the NFL. FIRE the idiot and reinstate the Browns win – and reinstate the millions lost by various bettors in Vegas. Oh yeah – the NFL doesn’t care about being right – as the Deflategate lunacy proves.

  3. How about the Carr Fumble early whistle AL. I have watched the first down and the fumble like it was the Zapruder film and still can’t understand what you saw.. I call Bull..

  4. Kenny Albert, Ronde Barber and even Dean Blandino agreed that there wasn’t evidence to overturn, and they have access to every camera angle Riveron did. That was a robbery, plain and simple. So was the premature whistle when Carr fumbled in OT. To be fair, the Raiders got hosed on a similar call during a Lynch run earlier in the game.

  5. Surprisingly I think they got this right saw a few freeze frame angles and the elbow was down and the ball looked short of the yellow line on the field.

    How that Carr fumble wasn’t a fumble is just a blown play by the Refs who also called another play down way too early against Lynch early. Overall the Refs were WAY to whistle happy.

  6. “I think we’re all looking at this here in the studio and we’re shocked that they overturned it,” Blandino said on FOX’s game broadcast. “Again, you don’t have a big line (on the review), it’s tough to tell exactly where the ball is. I wouldn’t have overturned that one.”

  7. 1. It was the right call.
    2. The Browns had the opportunity to stop the Raiders from scoring again (including a 2pt conversion). They failed.
    3. The Browns had a chance to win in OT.
    4. If you want to rant about bad calls, be brave and mention BOTH SIDES.
    A. Lynch was called down by forward progress when he obviously wasn’t. He probably would’ve scored on that play.
    B. A Raiders defender (Arden Key, if I remember correctly) was called for roughing the passer. It’s the worst roughing call I’ve ever seen. Those calls need to be subject to review.

  8. I like the old NFL that just apologized mid-week for a terrible/blown call instead of gaslighting me/trying to convince me I am crazy and didn’t see what I saw.

  9. Take a step back here … If Riveron does in fact have film angles the public is not privy to THAT is the problem. As long as the NFL insists on not being transparent with reviews (among a multitude of other things) this is going to continue to be a huge issue. It’s completely unrealistic for the NFL to continue to go all in with the trust us mantra when it comes to reviews, penalties, player discipline, etc , etc , etc

  10. So I thought this year some refs retired like Al , Gene, and Ed Etc. So why is it that last week Ed chimed in this week I herd gene phone in . Sounds like to me these retired refs are still refing these games but at another location. Why was al giving any opinion on why it was overturned. Sounds like to me same bs the nfl has been doing for years allowing the refs to dictate games for what ever reasons they have. So they can control the betting odds who wins who loses. During the 49ers game today there was a flag for 12 men on the field on the chargers. Then after review with his side line judge gave a bs excuse why it wasn’t 12 men on the field I know what I saw there were 12 men on the field. Plus maybe the head ref should make sure he doesn’t have his radio on to broad cast it through the stadium and on national television. These refs at the games are puppets while being told by others what to say.

  11. I can’t find this second angle on the internet. Anyone know where we can find this second angle that shows he is well short?

  12. There’s plenty of photographic evidence out there showing the arm down while the runner was a half yard short. The call should’ve been overturned. The Carr non fumble, the Lynch whistle and Key roughing the passer calls were much worse. Oh well, the Raiders are owed for at least a decades worth of make up calls anyway.

  13. To be fair, the Raiders got hosed on a similar call during a Lynch run earlier in the game.

    Any Lynch promptly kicked the ball after the play was over. Where was the flag for that?

  14. We put a man on the moon 50 years ago and can build bridges to within eighth of an inch tolerances using GPS, but we still use caveman tech of two sticks and chain to “accurately” measure 30 feet. Something is wrong there.

  15. The Browns didn’t lose because of this play.

    The Browns lost because they let Derek Carr drive 70 yards in a minute with no timeouts after this, score a touchdown and the subsequent 2 point conversion. The Raiders missed a 50 yard field goal in overtime, giving the Browns great field position and they didn’t capitalize. The Raiders then came back, drove down the field again and kicked a 29 yard field goal to win.

    Losers make excuses.

  16. This is almost as bad as that time the NFL screwed the Raiders out of the Superbowl with a penalty that doesn’t exist anymore.

    Kinda ironic Jon Grudens last game with the Raiders ended with the ‘Tuck rule’ and his first win back is on a controversial call.

  17. The NFL has pictures of this, they keep it right next to the gas pressure readings they never released.

    The Browns got SCREWED big time.

  18. “Gruden going 0-4 is bad for the NFL, so he needed a win and I helped. We don’t care about the Browns.”

    -What Riveron meant

  19. Dustin Adams says:
    October 1, 2018 at 12:45 am
    1. It was the right call. – It’ an opinon.
    2. The Browns had the opportunity to stop the Raiders from scoring again (including a 2pt conversion). They failed. – It’s irrelevant.
    3. The Browns had a chance to win in OT. – It’s irrelevant.
    4. If you want to rant about bad calls, be brave and mention BOTH SIDES. – TRUE.(also negates your first statement)
    A. Lynch was called down by forward progress when he obviously wasn’t. He probably would’ve scored on that play. – TRUE.
    B. A Raiders defender (Arden Key, if I remember correctly) was called for roughing the passer. It’s the worst roughing call I’ve ever seen. Those calls need to be subject to review. – TRUE

    I felt for the Browns. Apparently there is a chance to influence the outcome of any game from NYC directly. This is no good and undermines the integrity of the game (if Goodell left anything to be undermined here)

  20. tdubdizzle says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:06 am
    This is almost as bad as that time the NFL screwed the Raiders out of the Superbowl with a penalty that doesn’t exist anymore.

    _______________________________________________________

    Or that time they screwed the Pats out of the Superbowl on a penalty THAT DIDN’T EVEN EXIST (faceguarding) at the time. At least in your circumstance it actually was a penalty. You think you have a grudge…………..

  21. Can we get rid of the former officials trying to tell us all what we saw? Nobody gives a crap about what you’re trying to sell the audience. My eyes don’t lie, chief. So take your former officials and shove them you know where NFL.

    BTW can we get all these white haired geezers off the field? If the game speed is SOOOOOOOOO fast…how is grandpa supposed to keep up?

  22. Hey Riverion, what about the Carr ‘sack’ that was a fumble which would have been returned for a Browns TD?? The officiating of that game reeked of home cooking.

    Browns are 2 kicks and 1 bad officiating call from being 4-0.

  23. sikoix says:
    October 1, 2018 at 12:51 am
    I like the old NFL that just apologized mid-week for a terrible/blown call instead of gaslighting me/trying to convince me I am crazy and didn’t see what I saw.
    __________________________________________

    Props for the “gaslighting” reference! Had no idea what that was a few years ago until I found it looking for psychological terms to describe my ex wife. Pretty fascinating really.

  24. In order for everyone to take the NFL seriously on replay, they need to show the exact angles on live TV a replay official is looking at. Then the official needs to (on live TV) walk through his thought process on why a call was or wasn’t overturned. He needs to point out which aspects of the play he looked.

    It might take an extra minute or two but at least everyone in the entire world isn’t left wondering what the heck happened for 12 hours.

  25. Same people in here that crush Blandino for being a senseless talking head are now referencing him as a credible authority on a close call?

  26. fmiaakammqbpft says:

    October 1, 2018 at 8:58 am

    tdubdizzle says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:06 am
    This is almost as bad as that time the NFL screwed the Raiders out of the Superbowl with a penalty that doesn’t exist anymore.

    _______________________________________________________

    Or that time they screwed the Pats out of the Superbowl on a penalty THAT DIDN’T EVEN EXIST (faceguarding) at the time. At least in your circumstance it actually was a penalty. You think you have a grudge…………..
    ——————–
    Face guarding??? You mean hands to the face? lol

  27. I get what he’s saying. It’s 100% wrong but I understand his 100% wrong point. They spotted the ball where they believe the ball was when his arm came down. Emphasis on “believe”. IE not enough evidence to overturn the call on the field like everyone and their mom felt should have been the call so we just created a point in which we felt the ball should have been based on where we think it would be even though all the close up shots were at weird angles and the main shot is what made the official on the field give it a first down spot in the first place.

  28. How many bad spots have we seen over the years where the explanation for not changing it was that there was no single camera angle right down the line to 100% prove it? But for this week, it’s totally cool to look at a bunch of views from odd angles and decide the spot was a an inch or two off. This is just so NFL.

  29. My favorite officiating call that negated an important change of possession occurred on the ‘in the grasp’ sack of Carr, which killed the obvious fumble and return of the ball.

    I forget the quarter or time of the game, but that was huge and totally inexplicable and could not be challenged, as I’m a Chiefs fan and was rooting for both teams to lose.

    Good job Oakland homer zebras!

  30. I think referees should have to do a post game press conference too. There’s no valid excuse for how bad they were the enitire game. Not just the bad fumble call, bad 1st down call, missed helmet hit on baker, missed hit on returner after fair catch, early whistle blowing etc…. if can’t do my job correctly I lose my job… if a kicker or any player can’t preform at a high level they lose their starting job or maybe even their job. Refs should be no different. They blew this entire game . The browns should of done more to win BUT the refs definitely helped the Raiders win period

  31. tdubdizzle says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:03 am
    The Browns didn’t lose because of this play.

    The Browns lost because they let Derek Carr drive 70 yards in a minute with no timeouts after this, score a touchdown and the subsequent 2 point conversion. The Raiders missed a 50 yard field goal in overtime, giving the Browns great field position and they didn’t capitalize. The Raiders then came back, drove down the field again and kicked a 29 yard field goal to win.

    Losers make excuses.
    ——————————-
    Been a LOT of excuses out of Chokeland already this season. I predict a lot more as they march to 4-12.

  32. How about the missed spear call when their d-lineman took down Carr AFTER the throw with the crown of the helmet straight to his ribs? Should have been a penalty and an ejection.

    How about the TD they saved the Browns when they whistled Lynch down just before he broke all those weak tackles and headed for the end zone? And BTW, the refs didn’t call a sportsmanlike penalty on Lynch afterwards because they KNEW they had hosed him and gave him leeway.

    How about the garbage roughing call on Key even though he never went to the ground and completely backed off after bumping Mayfield, and Mayfield even GAVE THE DUDE A FIST-BUMP FOR IT??”

    Regarding the spot: They took the time and reviewed ALL the tapes. ALL the angles. They had EVERY available chance to get it right. This was the outcome.

    Hue had a chance to challenge the supposed Carr fumble. Didn’t happen.

    So the garbage that went against OAK was FAR worse because there was absolutely NOTHING they could do about it. So what did they do? They sucked it up like men and went out and played football. Carr got up from being SPEARED in obvious pain, grabbing his ribs doubled over, and rushed to the LOS to keep his hurry-up going. THAT’S HOW YOU WIN GAMES.

    Browns had every chance in the world to get their justice, get the calls right – every chance to win the game. They didn’t.

    The moral of the story is: I don’t want to hear it. Raiders won. 1-3. It’s done.

  33. Wanna fix the drama on potentially corrupt replay calls? Broadcast the phone conversation between the on-field ref and the guys in NYC over the stadium speakers like when the ref announces the call from the middle of the field. ANY argument back and forth would by definition mean that the call should stand based on the replay rules

  34. ochostinko says:
    October 1, 2018 at 7:08 am
    To be fair, the Raiders got hosed on a similar call during a Lynch run earlier in the game.

    Any Lynch promptly kicked the ball after the play was over. Where was the flag for that?
    ________________
    There should have been a flag…..on the stupid ref who blew the whistle!

  35. Just to be a bit balanced, it is not at all unrealistic to recognize the tv producer likely failed to show the needed replay(s) and/or that there was a technical challenge with the equipment that prevented TV viewers from seeing what a totally different production at NY mission control utilized. What I am suggesting really does happen a lot more often then the average viewing fan understands, and the production/production team that NFL uses is NOT the same production/production team that TV presents. It is important to note that while most teams are playing in modern stadiums with state of the art tv production facilities that is very unlikely the case with Oakland–point being that the professional tv production talent, though doing their best, are more challenged in the game production implementation than the average viewer would ever understand.

    All the above stated, NFL would be best served to follow up and show us all how NY folks made this decision–NOT TELL US how they made the decision.

  36. Can we just admit those guys in NY either need glasses or the fix is in? That was one of the WORST calls, reversals or whatever you want to call it I’ve ever seen in ANY pro, college or high school football game. I mean seriously what play were they reviewing cause it definitely wasn’t the one I saw. That was clearly a first down, game over.

  37. Uh, there’s a photo all over the internet that clearly shows his entire left forearm is down, ball is an entire 1/3 even 1/2 a yard short, exactly like this article says. Lol, unbelievable, you people are.

  38. It looked to me like he hit down before falling forward but the tv replays never froze the frame. I tend to believe Riveron on this one although I’d like to see the freeze frames to know for sure.

  39. I just looked and it was a terrible reversal. The problem is when his forearm hits the ball is already very close to the line to gain. No way to know conclusively. It’s kind of amazing Riveron still has this job given how many games he ruined last year.

  40. r502 says:
    October 1, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Same people in here that crush Blandino for being a senseless talking head are now referencing him as a credible authority on a close call?
    ———————

    Amazing, isn’t it?

  41. Two refs looking straight down the line, both agreed on the spot. What the booth review saw was not CLEAR AND INDISPUTABLE, which is the rule. This was a horrible call, I feel sorry for the Browns, they may not win another game. Things like this have a way of snowballing. If they come out next week and lay down, it’s over. One win, one tie and 14 losses. I doubt the coach can overcome this, he probably will be fired next week. It’s despicable. This mistake will magnify itself and the all the good things that have happened for them will be a distant memory.

  42. They didn’t deserve to win with 4 Baker turnovers! Those four plays was the difference. Not one missed call on the spot!

  43. r502 says:

    October 1, 2018 at 9:34 am

    Same people in here that crush Blandino for being a senseless talking head are now referencing him as a credible authority on a close call?
    ————————————————————————–
    Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while.

  44. I can understand the fumble that they screwed the browns out of- like blowing the whistle early on Marshawn Lynch, there will be errors made on split second decisions. But to take several minutes to find a way to move that ball back is just not reasonable. I’m not a conspiracy person, but man, that was bad. No wonder the NFL is so anti-gambling…its getting exposed as sports entertainment at this point.

  45. The Browns could’ve gone for it on fourth down — get two inches and win the game. But they didn’t think they could accomplish that against the Raiders?

  46. The Carr sack and the Lynch premature whistle offset one another, as do the Arden Key roughing and the no call on Baker getting facemasked in OT. A no call on a block in the back on Harris’ last return to set up Oakland was missed as was the picked up flag on the defenseless receiver call on Njoku. Poorly officiated game as a whole for both sides.The overturned 1st down was beyond ridiculous though. Not enough evidence to move the ball either way. Bottom line… Browns D was gassed from being out there too much. Baker needed to hold on to the ball better.

  47. tdubdizzle says:
    October 1, 2018 at 8:03 am
    The Browns didn’t lose because of this play.

    The Browns lost because they let Derek Carr drive 70 yards in a minute with no timeouts after this, score a touchdown and the subsequent 2 point conversion. The Raiders missed a 50 yard field goal in overtime, giving the Browns great field position and they didn’t capitalize. The Raiders then came back, drove down the field again and kicked a 29 yard field goal to win.

    Losers make excuses.
    —————————-
    Browns don’t need to stop Carr from driving 70 yards. Game was over before that.

  48. Al Riveron blew this one down his leg. As last year continues Al replace is supposed to overturn horrible calls on the field not i looked at it from 17 different camera angles and

  49. “If Riveron does in fact have film angles the public is not privy to THAT is the problem. ”

    Of course he does. There are what, 12-15 cams minimum around a stadium for live broadcasts. Replay angles show on TV only take what the live producer considers the “best angles”, but it doesn’t mean there are things in the 10+ angles that are not shown that can effect whether a call is overturned or not.

    There is simply not enough time for a network to show all the shots, but they’re there and available to the replay officials.

  50. And if the whistle hadn’t stopped Marshawn Lynch from scoring? Clevelanders find it hard to lose blowout games and even harder to lose close games they should have won. The blame has to land somewhere though, and the refs are easy targets. The Haslems should look a little closer to home to find a reason for the team under performing. They now have a certified offensive coordinator and, with a replenished roster, are scoring much better. No one will blame DC Williams, and rightly so, but there is only one other possible reason why the standard line has become “…” well, you know.

  51. If this was a one-week thing it would be one thing. But for the Browns to find different ways to lose EVERY SINGLE WEEK for three years running is incredibly ridiculous.

    Raider fans are whining and crying about being 0-3 this year. Try being 2-33-1 over the past 2 1/2 years … at least the last two years the Browns have either not shown up at all or been way behind by halftime.

    This year has been just gut-wrenching! God-awful kicking, bad defense down the stretch and now questionable (at best) officiating? And how does Derek freaking Carr start looking like Peyton Manning down the stretch? Dude couldn’t miss! And the Browns’ secondary … don’t get me started about how wide open those Raider receivers were!

    ENOUGH ALREADY! I’d rather see the Browns lose 38-0 week after week than have to go through this every week!

  52. Am I the only one who thinks Hugh Jackson should have gone for it on 4th and inches with a Mayfield QB sneak to win the game? Rather than punting with his horrible punt coverage unit. I know the counter argument is that Cleveland’s defense is strong so put the game on their shoulders, but they had also already given up 35 points by that point in the game.

    Could Baker have found a way to get 6 inches to ice his first NFL start? No way he wouldn’t have gotten it. When’s the last time you saw a QB sneak for a loss?

    Should have gone for the win right there.

  53. WRONG! First of all I suspected they reversed because they assumed the on field officials missed when he was down which he alludes to. Secondly, during the game they won’t use the media imposed yellow line and I can understand that. However, for his statement the next day he could have. The yellow line was shown correct when they did the measurement and the maker point was at the front edge of that line. he yellow line does not change with angles like your view does. That is exactly where Hydes elbow hit, at the front edge of the yellow line. The ball is further forward in his other hand at that point. It was a first down by 7-10″. This is a text book example of why replay officials should be more cautious to reverse on field calls.

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