Aaron Rodgers: Tom Brady’s five titles end most discussions about GOAT

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Tom Brady said Wednesday that debate about the greatest quarterback — and ultimately greatest player — in NFL history is “a hypothetical question that is truly impossible to answer.” Aaron Rodgers respectfully disagrees.

“I let you guys worry about those types of conversations,” Rodgers said, via Rob Demovsky of ESPN. “I think that’s end-of-career conversations. . . . I’m just worried about winning right now. He’s got five championships, so that ends most discussions, I think.”

Brady and Rodgers have met only once previously. The Packers won 26-21 at Lambeau Field as Rodgers completed 24 of 38 passes for 368 yards and two touchdowns, while Brady went 22-of-35 for 245 yards and two touchdowns.

The Packers and Patriots are not scheduled to meet again for four years. Thus, the only way they meet again before 2022 is in the Super Bowl.

206 responses to “Aaron Rodgers: Tom Brady’s five titles end most discussions about GOAT

  1. About the only thing intelligent to come out of Rodgers mouth since he came into the league.

  2. “He’s got five championships, so that ends most discussions, I think.”

    But not here at PFT where envy and jealousy fuel the comments.
    Aaron Rodgers is the most physically gifted QB I have ever seen.
    Joe Montana is the most natural QB I have ever seen.
    Dan Marino is the best pure passing QB I have ever seen.
    Tom Brady is the smartest QB I have ever seen.

  3. If I can’t have my super bowl 52 champion Philadelphia Eagles in the SB this year (and it doesn’t look good at the moment), would love to see these two go at it. Don’t think the packers have any better shot than the eagles though, just sayin’

  4. What does ir really matter. It’s the game and the games that entertain. It’s a pleasure watching both these two as well as watching most of the young QBs, Wentz, Newton, Mahomes etc. and certainly Breese, Smith etc. Point is pro football is the GOAT.

  5. Total mutual respect for each other. Brady knows Rodgers is more naturally gifted than he is and Rodgers can see. due to Brady’s 5 rings, that there’s more to winning than physical talent… and Brady has it.

    They both admire each others game and leave the hating for rabid fans and the comparisons for the so-called ‘experts’.

  6. Brady would not have lasted more than 4-5 years in Bradshaw shoes. Collect those rings when the quarterback position was just one of a eleven on offense. Toughest and durability were requirements for survival and a career. Rodgers can admire Brady because he can’t related to those before him including Bart Starr.

  7. Not sure why anybody is interested in making a determination of “Greatest Player of All Time” anyway! The game had changed, and will continue to change, good or bad! Stats are what they are, and the best comparisons that could be made for any current great player, would be those related to their competition within the same era! Then again, the Greatest Player of All Time, would really only be the best player to date…..The conversation is really quite silly, as we will surely be having the same conversation about another couple of players in fifteen to twenty years. Maybe it is our insatiable desire to quantify and judge every career in every sport to declare some sort of finality? I really don’t need any of that to feel “whole”, and enjoy any particular sport in the present or future.

  8. eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.

    —-

    You can’t lose the ones you never got to. You lost them in earlier rounds that year or never made the playoffs.

  9. ask ANY of his fellow players and they will tell you Terry Bradshaw is the reason they ONLY WON four titles;

    Blake Bortles and Deshon Kizer could’ve won a title with the Steel Curtain defence;

    that makes them great quarterbacks, too, i suppose;

  10. Tom Brady never played in the NFC in the 1980s.

    Lawrence Taylor’s Giants, the Bears 46 defense, the Washington Redskins with the hogs, Manley, Mann and Green. That’s 5 Super Bowl wins right there. Some guy named Joe led his team to 4 Super Bowls in that decade.

  11. “So does that mean Eli Mannings 2 titles mean he’s above Rodgers?”

    The Giants D won those games not Manning. Eli did play well and with toughness though, and deserves his share of the credit.

    “One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.”

    That guy only got to 4 Super Bowls. I’m not sure why people think sitting at home and watching is better than at least playing in the Super Bowl even if you lose.

  12. hockeyfan28 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 7:54 pm
    Tom is right let Joe Montana or a Johnny Unitas play with these modern rules or much less Jerry Rice and the way the call pass interference
    ———————————
    Imagine if Jerry Rice didn’t admittedly cheat during his entire career!

  13. I think both these guys are very admirable, high-quality, people first and athletes second. It’s the haters that try to pigeonhole them and describe them disparagingly as nasty, self-centered, and arrogant. That’s not what I see, hear, read, and feel. Congratulations to both and hats off to Brady.

  14. That Aaron Rodgers is one humble dude. But as a Pats fan I fear he will throw for 800 yards and 12 TDs against our defense.
    Where is the 2006 defense that knocked Favre out of the game and then broke Rodgers’ foot? 35-0 in Green Bay

  15. Yeah dreameagle – 2 Super Bowl MVP’s in 70’s football rules and he just watched behind center. Apparently you aren’t familiar with the entire package of the 70’s Steelers. Glad you mentioned defense because that is what they dished out and every quarterback had to endure. No skirts or protect my knees rules.

  16. In my time zone, Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, Tom Brady, and Erin Rodgers…not in any order. These were the QBs I always wished my team had. Bad Packers management and coaching has caused the Packers to only win ONE Super Bowl while he was QB. He gives my team fits twice a year.

  17. I’m glad to see these two playing in the same era. It’s unfortunate that the Packers and Patriots don’t play each other more often. Obviously 5 rings is a hell of an accomplishment and should be noted. However, only the simple-minded would use it as the reason to say one player is better than another, considering football is a game where players don’t participate in all facets of the game (offense, defense and special teams).

  18. Both grew up in Northern California idolizing the GOAT. Both grew up 49ER fans. The 9ERS passed on both dumbly, Rodgers being the most obvious error.
    Ironically McCarthy was the OC in SF who was part of the braintrust in that decision. Along with Scott Mcloughan. Every 9ER fan wanted Rodgers over Smith.

  19. ousteelranger says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:21 pm
    Brady would not have lasted more than 4-5 years in Bradshaw shoes. Collect those rings when the quarterback position was just one of a eleven on offense. Toughest and durability were requirements for survival and a career. Rodgers can admire Brady because he can’t related to those before him including Bart Starr.
    =================
    Yes, Brady is playing in his 19th season in the nfl, and I’m supposed to believe he lacks toughness and durability? Hahahahahahaha

  20. I remember the GOAT basketball player Michael Jordan saying to a reporter after Jerry Stackhouse slight. Jordan said ” I never had their posters on my wall. They had mine ”

    Both Brady and Rodgers are no doubt greats but they wanted to be “Joe Cool”. Not the other way around.

  21. dkcjb says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:22 pm

    Five titles? Is that a lot?

    Signed,

    Otto Graham
    Cleveland, Ohio

    17

    18

    ——————-

    The Salary Cap and 25 teams later say hello.

  22. Its Halloween but I see so many turkeys out here. This comment isn’t whether or not Aaron thinks he’s better (of course he does. He’s a pro athlete) than Brady. You lot are missing the point completely. This is Aaron playing the Patriots game of always complimenting the opponent as to not give them bulletin board material.

    So many players and teams make playing the Pats seem like their superbowl, all sweat and vinegar, while the Pat’s say nice things all week before carving them open.

    Brilliant.

  23. It’s cute how people want to dismiss the ring count as if the “only” thing Brady has is rings. You do realize he’s at or near the top in practically every statistical passing category right? He’s a HOFer on his passing alone, nevermind rings.

    I mean, you’d have more of an argument that the rings don’t reflect his GOATness if he did nothing to earn them, and just showed up to collect a paycheck, but the guy is a great passer and a champion. As physically gifted as Aaron? Not by a country mile. But he has made the most of his inferior tools and spent nearly two decades dominating the NFL.

  24. Are we still really having this discussion? I thought it ended with the Manning nonsense. Now they want to push one title Aaron. Who’s next Mahomes?

  25. hockeyfan28 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 7:54 pm
    Tom is right let Joe Montana or a Johnny Unitas play with these modern rules or much less Jerry Rice and the way the call pass interference
    ——————

    Well why don’t we go back to Bronco Nagurski and the leather helmets?

  26. eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.

    ***************************************************************

    Would that be the guy who only got to four SBs because he kept getting knocked out in the 1st round?

  27. Bradshaw had Swann, Harris, Greene, Lambert, Ham and Blount as teammates
    Montana had Rice, Haley, and Lott as teammates

    Will even one of Brady’s teammates make it to Canton?

    Brady is the GOAT

  28. So I guess now that P. Manning’s retired they need a new goat debate. Really it’s not even close this generation or 5 back, or 20 back it’s either Brady or Montana. But the generation gap is really the debate. Montana Goat but now that everyone gets a trophy Brady. Can’t compare. Like La fraud and Jordan. Rodman would have cleaned his clock. Not close in time.

  29. If it comes down to titles, which is what all of the clowns want us to think, then there’s only one answer- Bart Starr. He has more championships than anyone so he’s the greatest. Charles Haley must be the greatest defensive player ever, he’s got 5 Superbowls. See how easy this is. In the ultimate team sport we say whoever has the most championships is the best…

  30. sigbouncer says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:50 pm
    Tom Brady never played in the NFC in the 1980s.

    Lawrence Taylor’s Giants, the Bears 46 defense, the Washington Redskins with the hogs, Manley, Mann and Green. That’s 5 Super Bowl wins right there. Some guy named Joe led his team to 4 Super Bowls in that decade.

    ——————

    No offence to those great teams from the 80’s, but you can’t compare generations. Current players are bigger, faster, stronger with better training playing in more complex offenses and defenses. Any current top offense would wipe the flloor with the 85 Bears.

  31. sigbouncer says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:50 pm
    Tom Brady never played in the NFC in the 1980s.

    Lawrence Taylor’s Giants, the Bears 46 defense, the Washington Redskins with the hogs, Manley, Mann and Green. That’s 5 Super Bowl wins right there. Some guy named Joe led his team to 4 Super Bowls in that decade.

    ****************
    He also played with the same players for most of the championship runs. It was a more physical era for sure, but also the game wasn’t as complicated and the QB didn’t have to do as much.

  32. Brady is not the GOAT. Joe Montana: GOAT, classy, modest, likeable. The youngsters who crow about Brady never saw Joe play – plain & simple.

  33. ikeclanton says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:45 pm

    eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.
    ——————————————————————-

    Trent Dilfer?

  34. eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.
    ——
    I’ll take the guy with 5 gold medals and 3 silvers over the guy with just 4 gold medals anyday!

    🙂

  35. This GOAT is so pointless. You cannot compare NFL players from different eras. It’s simply not fair to do that and all the opinions about this guy is the greatest or that guy was the greatest are just opinions and mean nothing.
    The ONLY thing you can do is compare how player A dominated his era verses player B. And then you must factor in the teams player A played for verses player B, too.
    And still, when you do all that, you’ll still have someones’ opinion about that, too.
    Here’s what I know — using the number of championships a QB won should not be a factor in his rating among his peers. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl, but I defy you to show me a better QB than he was during his time in the NFL.
    Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers have been the top three QB’s over the last decade. I don’t see how anyone can argue with that. But does it really matter? Because all three of them would trade that label (GOAT) for more championships, anyway.

  36. Montana never got his team to a Super Bowl with anything less than a top 10 defense in both yards AND scoring.

    Brady has. Several times.

    🙂

  37. hockeyfan28 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 7:54 pm
    Tom is right let Joe Montana or a Johnny Unitas play with these modern rules or much less Jerry Rice and the way the call pass interference
    ——
    Blame Bill Polian for the rule changes trying to rig the league for the benefit of PEDton Manning.

    Brady did win a couple of Super Bowls in the previous era.

  38. Does it really matter? Everyone will have selective criteria as to why one is, or isn’t.

    Just enjoy, or hate, the ride.

  39. Qb Discussion ended in 4th quarter of sb 49 and 4th quarter of sb 51 elevated him to greatest player of all time. There’s only one GOAT edition of Madden and there won’t be any revisions.

  40. eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.

    ———————-
    Each year 31 guys lose a championship, some sooner than others but in the end with the exception of that one guy hoisting the trophy, everyone else that played that year lost the championship.

    I am not aware of a single QB that never played a season in which they did not lose a championship. If you do please do tell us.

  41. The Greatest Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT DOESNT EXSIST ! BECAUSE “HE” HASNT PLAYED YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! P E R I O D !!!!!!!!!!!!!
    SURE YOU CAN HAVE YOU FAVORITES IN EVERY GENERATION! BUT THE PUREST GREATES THE ONE AND ONLY …. HAS NOT TAKEN A SNAP YET.

  42. So by he ring logic here’s a list of qbs better than Dan Marino and just as good as Aaron Rodgers.
    1. Nick foles
    2. Mark Rypien
    3. Brad Johnson
    4. Joe Namath
    5. Jim McMahon
    6. Len Dawson
    7. Phil Simms
    8. Jeff Hotstetler
    9. Trent Dilfer
    10. Russell Wilson

  43. True. Can’t argue with rings. Thing is though, Brady has been buoyed by arguably the greatest coach of all time while Rodgers has had a McCarthy anchor around his neck for 13 years…

  44. grant35 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:09 pm
    Brady is not the GOAT. Joe Montana: GOAT, classy, modest, likeable. The youngsters who crow about Brady never saw Joe play – plain & simple.

    —————-

    Montana certainly is not likeable off the field.

  45. revelation123 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:24 pm
    It takes a great team to win a ring, not a great QB.

    ——————-

    Yep. That’s true and Brady would agree. I would say not ‘only’ a great QB. But… it’s no coincidence that so many different great teams were built around Brady.

  46. eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.

    —————-

    Montana lost 11 championships in 15 years.

  47. 2ruefan says:
    October 31, 2018 at 9:28 pm
    Montana

    —————-

    At this point Montana will be forgotten. Brady completely eclipsed him in every way.

  48. jerseystrong3232 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:05 pm
    Except Montana is the GOAT. 4 rings and never lost, never even threw an interception.

    ————

    If he didn’t throw a pick in his career that would be impressive, but not throwing a pick in 4 Super Bowls against crappy AFC teams in an era where the NFC won 14 of 15 Super Bowls isn’t very impressive. Montana’s top competition was in his own conference which is why he only went to 4 Super Bowls in the 15 years he played.

  49. Poppy123 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:07 pm
    If it comes down to titles, which is what all of the clowns want us to think, then there’s only one answer- Bart Starr. He has more championships than anyone so he’s the greatest. Charles Haley must be the greatest defensive player ever, he’s got 5 Superbowls. See how easy this is. In the ultimate team sport we say whoever has the most championships is the best…

    ———

    Brady won the league MVP at 40 and two Super Bowl MVPs in the last 4 years. He’s good. It’s not just the overall team.

  50. Terry Bradshaw was punched, kicked, and smashed face first into the ground (no penalty flag). He got up and won four Super Bowls, while calling his own plays.

    Today’s NFL rules treat quarterbacks like they’re kittens on a pillow.

    Terry Bradshaw is the GOAT.

  51. “Rodgers can see. due to Brady’s 5 rings, that there’s more to winning than physical talent… and Brady has it.”

    Belichick?

  52. korthjw says:
    October 31, 2018 at 9:58 pm
    Bradshaw had Swann, Harris, Greene, Lambert, Ham and Blount as teammates
    Montana had Rice, Haley, and Lott as teammates

    Will even one of Brady’s teammates make it to Canton?
    ————————————————————–

    Tom Brady’s former teammate Adam Vinatieri will be in the HOF one day. Gronk might get there one day. Ty Law, who IMO should have been the MVP of the Patriots first Super Bowl win, has been receiving consideration, but my guess is he will never quite get there. I suspect former teammates Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest (playoff sack leader) will also get some consideration but come up short.

    And, of course, Bill Belichick is a first ballot HOFer just as Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw had first ballot HOF head coaches.

    None of the above takes away the fact that Tom Brady is the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time.

  53. Endtimesparty – did you seriously just call Erin humble???? This entire debate is subjective aside from that comment which couldn’t be further from the truth. He is generally comprised of both arrogance and false modesty

  54. kev359 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 5:57 am
    Endtimesparty – did you seriously just call Erin humble???? This entire debate is subjective aside from that comment which couldn’t be further from the truth. He is generally comprised of both arrogance and false modesty

    —————————————————————————————-

    Anything you have to say loses all credibility as soon as you call Aaron “Erin”. And you are clueless about Rodgers. His teammates know what he means to them and the Packers and that’s all that matters. What you think about him is as insignificant as of one drop of water in all the oceans of the world.

  55. Will even one of Brady’s teammates make it to Canton?
    ————————————————————–

    Tom Brady’s former teammate Adam Vinatieri will be in the HOF one day. Gronk might get there one day. Ty Law, who IMO should have been the MVP of the Patriots first Super Bowl win, has been receiving consideration, but my guess is he will never quite get there. I suspect former teammates Richard Seymour and Willie McGinest (playoff sack leader) will also get some consideration but come up short.
    —————————————————
    Ever hear of Randy Moss? Already in.

  56. ikeclanton says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:45 pm
    eaglesarechamps says:
    October 31, 2018 at 8:33 pm
    One guy never lost a championship. I’ll take him. End of story.

    Yes, I’m also a big Doug Williams fan as well. Along with a whole bunch of other guys who are better than Brady, Peyton, Brees if that’s your bar.

  57. Brady is at the top. Sorry, BeliCHEAT lovers, Shula is the greatest coach of all time.

  58. phillyphinsfan says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:34 am
    …Shula is the greatest coach of all time.
    ————————————————————

    Unfortunately for Shula he stuck around too long and hurt his legacy as a Coach by not only never helping the Dolphins win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino as their QB, but only getting there one time with Marino in more than ten years working together. That was coaching malpractice of the highest order.

  59. Brady is not the GOAT. Joe Montana: GOAT, classy, modest, likeable. The youngsters who crow about Brady never saw Joe play – plain & simple.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Then why is it that an overwhelming majority of players from that era, those that played with and against Montana claim Brady is GOAT?

  60. rrickjordan says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:07 am
    consideration but come up short.
    —————————————————
    Ever hear of Randy Moss? Already in.
    ——————————————-

    LOL @ my brain fart. Although Moss was in before he ever became Brady’s teammate (obviously Junior Seau as well).

  61. Both beasts. One has a HOF coach. 1.) Manning 2.) Montana 3.) Brady
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Manning played a majority of his career for Tony Dungy, who is in the hall of fame. Next question

  62. Rules have changed the game far too much to make any such determination. QB and have been Rulebook legislated into gods and Running Backs minimized to the point of near anonymity by those same rules…

  63. Otto Graham had 7 league championships AND the highest all-time winning percentage among NFL QBs. Although I still think that Johnny Unitas slightly edges out Graham for GOAT.

    Brady & Montana? Both played after the 1978 rules changes which decapitated defenses and artificially inflated scoring along with QB stats.

  64. GOAT?

    Rodgers considers himself in the top two despite having been to and won ONE SB???

    There are several multiple winners besides Brady who could be in the discussion, like Montana but Rodgers’ accomplishments in wins (what matters) match…

    Brad Johnson
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer
    Doug Williams
    Mark Rypien
    and Nick Foles

    Maybe Aaron wants to consider them in the GOAT discussion also?

  65. realitycheckbaby says:
    November 1, 2018 at 8:13 am
    GOAT?

    Rodgers considers himself in the top two despite having been to and won ONE SB???

    There are several multiple winners besides Brady who could be in the discussion, like Montana but Rodgers’ accomplishments in wins (what matters) match…

    Brad Johnson
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer
    Doug Williams
    Mark Rypien
    and Nick Foles
    ——
    I get that logic but ever notice how those guys can win 1 Super Bowl but never more than that? Funny how that works. 🙂

  66. For those of you calling ARod more physically gifted than The GOAT, didn’t see that 7 yard scamper last week against the Bills! (-:

  67. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:56 am
    Brady is not the GOAT. Joe Montana: GOAT, classy, modest, likeable. The youngsters who crow about Brady never saw Joe play – plain & simple.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Then why is it that an overwhelming majority of players from that era, those that played with and against Montana claim Brady is GOAT?

    ———-
    It’s Brady’s wins, rings AND longetivity at a high or elite level that seals the deal. One may argue that the first two are credit to team more than QB but that argument cant be made for the last one. That one is all Brady. He’s doing things that athletes should not be able to do in their 40s.

    There really is no valid argument to the contrary. Brady is GOAT. Fact, not opinion.

  68. whywerule says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:53 am
    phillyphinsfan says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:34 am
    …Shula is the greatest coach of all time.
    ————————————————————
    Unfortunately for Shula he stuck around too long and hurt his legacy as a Coach by not only never helping the Dolphins win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino as their QB, but only getting there one time with Marino in more than ten years working together. That was coaching malpractice of the highest order.

    ——-
    Shula is one of the biggest cheaters this sport has ever seen. He belongs nowhere near the conversation of greatest coach of all tine.

  69. Endtimesparty – did you seriously just call Erin humble???? This entire debate is subjective aside from that comment which couldn’t be further from the truth. He is generally comprised of both arrogance and false modesty

    —————————————————————————————-

    Anything you have to say loses all credibility as soon as you call Aaron “Erin”. And you are clueless about Rodgers. His teammates know what he means to them and the Packers and that’s all that matters. What you think about him is as insignificant as of one drop of water in all the oceans of the world.

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Aside from James Jones who appears to have an odd obsession with Aaron, I challenge you to find one quote from a current or former player who has any positive comments about him as a person. Good QB, bad Human

  70. It’s Brady’s wins, rings AND longetivity at a high or elite level that seals the deal. One may argue that the first two are credit to team more than QB but that argument cant be made for the last one. That one is all Brady. He’s doing things that athletes should not be able to do in their 40s.

    ((((((((

    Umm Defense shut out Falcons from mid 3rd qtr to the end of the game.
    Plus defense forced the game changing turnover and stopped an almost certain FG.

    Finally Edelman made an incredible catch that could have been intercepted.

    Brady has always benefited from great coaching, defenses and special teams. Even Brady acknowledges that and said years ago that Peyton is the GOAT.

  71. bullcharger says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:09 pm

    No offence to those great teams from the 80’s, but you can’t compare generations. Current players are bigger, faster, stronger with better training playing in more complex offenses and defenses. Any current top offense would wipe the flloor with the 85 Bears.

    ——————————————————————————————————–

    They can be compared with the understanding that the same training and coaching would be available had they played today. And you must not have seen the ’85 Bears defense to say that. That 46 D with Richard Dent and company could get on top of a quarterback in 2-2.5 seconds from the snap. Then there is the question of which rules set would they play each other. Because those 80s teams knocked out quarterbacks routinely.

  72. While I don’t disagree that Tom Brady is the GOAT, I think one needs to look at more than Super Bowl titles to make that call. Terry Bradshaw(4), Jim Plunkett(2), Troy Aikman(3), Eli Manning(2), Ben Roethlisberger(2), etc. are all “good” quarterbacks who have won MULTIPLE Super Bowls. Yet anyone who is old enough (like me) to have seen all of these guys play, knows that they weren’t as good as guys like Aaron Rodgers (1), Drew Brees(1), Dan Marino(0) and maybe even throw Philip Rivers in there! Add in the fact that you have guys like Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, etc. who were’t even good enough to be starters for much of their careers, but good enough to win a Super Bowl, tells you how using championships as the be-all-end-all determining factor is not the most valid.

  73. Stop with the Otto Graham nonsense. There were 10 teams when he came in and 12 when he left and the road to the SB consisted of a SINGLE GAME for each conference.

  74. hetruthspeaks says:
    November 1, 2018 at 8:47 am
    It’s Brady’s wins, rings AND longetivity at a high or elite level that seals the deal. One may argue that the first two are credit to team more than QB but that argument cant be made for the last one. That one is all Brady. He’s doing things that athletes should not be able to do in their 40s.

    ((((((((

    Umm Defense shut out Falcons from mid 3rd qtr to the end of the game.
    Plus defense forced the game changing turnover and stopped an almost certain FG.

    Finally Edelman made an incredible catch that could have been intercepted.

    Brady has always benefited from great coaching, defenses and special teams. Even Brady acknowledges that and said years ago that Peyton is the GOAT.
    ——
    Brady said no such thing and even if he did he is being classy instead of accurate. 🙂

    PEDton cannot be GOAT as he is the permanent record holder of the most one and domes of all time by a starter. He also is only 2-2 in Super Bowls and he wasn’t very good in either of those wins, in fact carries entirely by his defense. He was wretched in both losses, they were all entirely on him.

    And as anyone with a brain knows he cheated with HGH before he joined the Broncos so his legit career ended in 2011. I will never acknowledge anything he accomplished* as a Bronco.

  75. Tom Brady has the most wins, the most playoff wins, the most AFC championship wins, and the most SB wins as a QB in NFL history. Compared to Montana, Brady (202) has almost twice the number of career wins as Montana (117), and 11 more playoff wins (27 vs 16). To put that in perspective, Aaron Rodgers has 9 playoffs wins TOTAL. Unitas? 6. Graham? 4. And that’s not just due to Brady’s career longevity — Brady’s playoff winning percentage is also higher than Montana’s (.730 vs .696) which of course explains why Montana didn’t even make it to 5 SBs let alone 8. If you cut Brady’s career in half down the middle, each separate half would individually stack up well against the other all time greats and each half would qualify for the HOF. This debate is over and has been for a long time now.

  76. Brady’s longevity is mostly due to the era he’s playing in. If he was playing in the 1970s or 80s against Lyle Alzado, Mean Joe Greene and Lawrence Taylor he would be done 5 years ago with 3 rings.

    —————-

    GoodellMustGo says:

    It’s Brady’s wins, rings AND longetivity at a high or elite level that seals the deal. One may argue that the first two are credit to team more than QB but that argument cant be made for the last one. That one is all Brady. He’s doing things that athletes should not be able to do in their 40s.

    There really is no valid argument to the contrary. Brady is GOAT. Fact, not opinion.

  77. Too many variables to consider a specific player the G.O.A.T. Hence why it’s a team sport. I think both Brady & Rodgers understand that. What they do both understand is, they are at the top of the game in their positions and that’s not up for debate.

  78. jquaste says:
    November 1, 2018 at 8:58 am
    While I don’t disagree that Tom Brady is the GOAT, I think one needs to look at more than Super Bowl titles to make that call. Terry Bradshaw(4), Jim Plunkett(2), Troy Aikman(3), Eli Manning(2), Ben Roethlisberger(2), etc. are all “good” quarterbacks who have won MULTIPLE Super Bowls. Yet anyone who is old enough (like me) to have seen all of these guys play, knows that they weren’t as good as guys like Aaron Rodgers (1), Drew Brees(1), Dan Marino(0) and maybe even throw Philip Rivers in there! Add in the fact that you have guys like Nick Foles, Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, etc. who were’t even good enough to be starters for much of their careers, but good enough to win a Super Bowl, tells you how using championships as the be-all-end-all determining factor is not the most valid.
    ——————————
    I get that and that’s why I believe it’s longetivity as a top QB for Brady (in his 19th season) to go with his 5 rings that’s the difference maker. Montana retired at age 39. Marino fell off the performance cliff at age 36 and retired shortly after that. Bradshaw retired after 14 years at age 36. Favre retired at age 41 when he went over his own cliff at Brady’s age. Brady himself at age 40 won a league MVP and at age 41 is still top 10 in passing yards and top 6 in TD passes. On pace to beat Warren Moon’s NFL record of 25 TD for an age 41 QB. Brady has set the bar high for QB’s most being much younger than him – in this league right now. That’s why you get guys like Rodgers saying these things about him. Textbook definition of Greatest. 🙂

    , but comparing someone who has won 1 Super Bowl to someone who has won more Super Bowls than any other QB that has ever played the game is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. 🙂

  79. las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 9:33 am
    Brady’s longevity is mostly due to the era he’s playing in. If he was playing in the 1970s or 80s against Lyle Alzado, Mean Joe Greene and Lawrence Taylor he would be done 5 years ago with 3 rings.
    ————————
    It’s hard to say for sure. I don’t think era should disqualify anyone in the modern game from being considered one of the league greats.

    But in his 17 year career to date he’s still always been either the league’s best or among the league’s best. Longetivity in excellence counts for something. 🙂

  80. No offence to those great teams from the 80’s, but you can’t compare generations. Current players are bigger, faster, stronger with better training playing in more complex offenses and defenses. Any current top offense would wipe the flloor with the 85 Bears.
    ======

    A) we don’t know how yesterdays players would look with today 24-7-365 training regiments and “supplements”
    B) coaches still say they never truly decoded Ryans defense
    C) there isn’t much that is complex about the spread offenses these days, they’re simply winning with athleticism. Nothing more. I’ll take Xs Os guys forever

  81. Couple other plus points for Montana.

    Joe Cool took KC to the AFC Championship and was driving down the field for the tying touchdown before HOFer Bruce Smith drilled him (concussion) and put him out of the game. Montana had no names like Willie Davis, JJ Birden and Jonathan Hayes as his starting receivers/tight end. Montana came very close to a 5th Super Bowl with a bad (talent wise) KC team.

    In the 1989 playoffs Montana had an unequaled passer rating of 146.4 (158.3 is a perfect rating) over the 3 playoff games in route to his 4th Super Bowl win.


  82. GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 8:29 am

    realitycheckbaby says:
    November 1, 2018 at 8:13 am
    GOAT?

    Rodgers considers himself in the top two despite having been to and won ONE SB???

    There are several multiple winners besides Brady who could be in the discussion, like Montana but Rodgers’ accomplishments in wins (what matters) match…

    Brad Johnson
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer
    Doug Williams
    Mark Rypien
    and Nick Foles
    ——
    I get that logic but ever notice how those guys can win 1 Super Bowl but never more than that? Funny how that works

    I suspect that’s the point.

    Wake me when Aaron wins #2

    Heck, wake me when he GOES TO #2

  83. Brady, Bradshaw, Manning, Montana, and all the rest live in the shadows of Otto Graham.

    Graham played when it was real football with real contact, not this girl’s version of “flag football” they play now. (Time outs for TV commercials?) Back then it was one and done. No, not everyone got a trophy for participating.

  84. bullcharger says:
    October 31, 2018 at 10:09 pm
    No offence to those great teams from the 80’s, but you can’t compare generations. Current players are bigger, faster, stronger with better training playing in more complex offenses and defenses. Any current top offense would wipe the flloor with the 85 Bears.
    ——————————————————————————————————–
    They can be compared with the understanding that the same training and coaching would be available had they played today. And you must not have seen the ’85 Bears defense to say that. That 46 D with Richard Dent and company could get on top of a quarterback in 2-2.5 seconds from the snap. Then there is the question of which rules set would they play each other. Because those 80s teams knocked out quarterbacks routinely.

    —————————-

    For their era, they were the best. No question. However, the point is that Richard Dent was 6’5″ 265 at DE. Gronk is 6’6″ 268. It wouldn’t be close against current athletes. It’s a majorly hypothetical argument which requires adjusting a lot of factors. You can say the 85 Bears were the greatest defense ever because they dominated their competition better than anyone ever has. That’s not saying they were better than today’s players.

  85. phillyphinsfan says:
    November 1, 2018 at 7:34 am
    Brady is at the top. Sorry, BeliCHEAT lovers, Shula is the greatest coach of all time.

    _________________________________________________________

    You do realize that Shula was involved in a scheme that cost his team draft picks, correct?

  86. In the era of real defenses, Montana was perfect on the biggest stage of them all. And to top that off, he never threw one INT on that biggest stage. That…is perfection/GOAT status. And this is from a Steelers fan by the way. You want to be the GOAT? Play in the real defense era of football and perform flawlessly on the biggest stage in the game. Brady, unfortunately can’t claim any of that.

    Only millennial types think that inflated no defense era stats trump perfection. Same people who think Brady is greater than Montana also claim Lebron is better than Mike. Just illogical thinking all around.

  87. bullcharger says:
    November 1, 2018 at 10:21 am

    For their era, they were the best. No question. However, the point is that Richard Dent was 6’5″ 265 at DE. Gronk is 6’6″ 268. It wouldn’t be close against current athletes. It’s a majorly hypothetical argument which requires adjusting a lot of factors. You can say the 85 Bears were the greatest defense ever because they dominated their competition better than anyone ever has. That’s not saying they were better than today’s players.

    —————————————————————————————————————-

    Again if we were somehow able to delay a Richard Dent’s birth date to be the same as Gronk’s birth date. Then Dent would have access to all the training and coaching (including diet) of today’s player. Thus, Dent would play today at 6’5 and probably 290-295lbs. Great highly motivated talented players are generational and would thrive in any era. I believe the biggest problem we have in making these comparison’s is under what (era’s) rules set the player would be playing under.

  88. We all know Brady’s had the best career of any QB. He’s also the only QB to play 17 years for one of the greatest coaches, owners and franchise in history. Montana only had 10 years playing for a great team and the first couple of years the 49ers were rebuilding.

    ——————

    weepingjebus says:
    November 1, 2018 at 9:32 am
    Tom Brady has the most wins, the most playoff wins, the most AFC championship wins, and the most SB wins as a QB in NFL history. Compared to Montana, Brady (202) has almost twice the number of career wins as Montana (117), and 11 more playoff wins (27 vs 16). To put that in perspective, Aaron Rodgers has 9 playoffs wins TOTAL. Unitas? 6. Graham? 4. And that’s not just due to Brady’s career longevity — Brady’s playoff winning percentage is also higher than Montana’s (.730 vs .696) which of course explains why Montana didn’t even make it to 5 SBs let alone 8. If you cut Brady’s career in half down the middle, each separate half would individually stack up well against the other all time greats and each half would qualify for the HOF. This debate is over and has been for a long time now.

  89. historyisyourfriend says:
    November 1, 2018 at 10:46 am
    …………
    Only millennial types think that inflated no defense era stats trump perfection. Same people who think Brady is greater than Montana also claim Lebron is better than Mike. Just illogical thinking all around.
    ——————————

    I am no millennial, and I acknowledge that Tom Brady is the Greatest NFL Player of All-time.

    I also acknowledge that Michael Jordan is the Greatest Basketball Player of All-Time.

    Your logic has some holes.

  90. NHPats says:
    November 1, 2018 at 9:14 am

    It’s funny when fans of perennial loser teams weigh in on this debate like anyone cares!

    ===============================

    It’s funny to see “Pats” fans who probably jumped onto the bandwagon after they started winning in 2001. They probably have no idea how pathetic their team was before Belichick arrived.

  91. beerbratscheese says:
    October 31, 2018 at 9:18 pm
    I’m glad to see these two playing in the same era. It’s unfortunate that the Packers and Patriots don’t play each other more often. Obviously 5 rings is a hell of an accomplishment and should be noted. However, only the simple-minded would use it as the reason to say one player is better than another, considering football is a game where players don’t participate in all facets of the game (offense, defense and special teams).

    ///////

    Then most of the Packer fan base is simple minded because anytime you talk football with them its all about the 13 World championships and how many rings does your team have. And the ones doing the talking are the ones have only been around for one or two and only know the Brett Favre era. Packer fan base hated Brett Farve until he went into the HOF as a Packer simply because it was another award they could brag about.

    I think some fans are confusing great with GOAT, Brady is one of the Goats – lets leave the rings out and just look at the accomplishments AFC Championship wins, Play-off wins, etc. Packers fans feel Rodgers is a GOAT simply because he wears the Green and Gold and the history behind the organization – so by default they think he is a GOAT. Packers fans your own QB said Brady was the GOAT. If that doesn’t make you take off your gold glasses and stop drinking the Green Kool-Aid you have been for years I don’t know what will.

  92. Both Montana and Brady would be great in the other’s respective era.

    In a game like football, because of rule changes, you really cannot make comparisons.

    QB’s prior to Montana had it much tougher – receivers could get knocked all over the field until the ball was in the air.

    You cannot compare running backs either because blockers, I believe up until late 70’s, were not allowed to extend their arms.

    Interceptions – you cannot compare DB’s. Up until Montana and Marino it was still a run first league. Some teams still only threw the ball 15 times a game. Not as many chances for picks

  93. las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 10:55 am
    We all know Brady’s had the best career of any QB. He’s also the only QB to play 17 years for one of the greatest coaches, owners and franchise in history. Montana only had 10 years playing for a great team and the first couple of years the 49ers were rebuilding.
    —-
    Brady had a lot to do with making the Patriots “one of the greatest franchises in history”. They were “The Patsies” before Brady arrived. It’s not like Brady was coming into that situation – he made it that way 🙂

  94. aarons444 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 10:03 am
    No offence to those great teams from the 80’s, but you can’t compare generations. Current players are bigger, faster, stronger with better training playing in more complex offenses and defenses. Any current top offense would wipe the flloor with the 85 Bears.
    ======
    A) we don’t know how yesterdays players would look with today 24-7-365 training regiments and “supplements”
    ———–
    You’re right, we don’t. That doesn’t mean we know for sure how Brady would have done back then either. 🙂

  95. Brady said no such thing and even if he did he is being classy instead of accurate. 🙂

    PEDton cannot be GOAT as he is the permanent record holder of the most one and domes of all time by a starter. He also is only 2-2 in Super Bowls and he wasn’t very good in either of those wins, in fact carries entirely by his defense. He was wretched in both losses, they were all entirely on him.

    And as anyone with a brain knows he cheated with HGH before he joined the Broncos so his legit career ended in 2011. I will never acknowledge anything he accomplished* as a Bronco.

    ———

    I saw a video of Brady saying Peyton was the GOAT. So you’re wrong and trying to mind read.

    Brady and Peyton stats in 9 games playoffs and SB

    Brady 9-0 in playoffs

    189/331 57%, 2,078 yards 8 tds 12 int 68.7 passer rating

    Peyton 0-9 ( 7 one and dones and 2 SB losses)

    234/369 63.4%, 2,535 yards 13 tds 7 int 87.3 passer rating

    So Peyton performed significantly better than Brady in 9 losses while Brady’s team won all 9 games. Brady has superior teams and coaching

    Denver has sucked since Peyton retired

    And Peyton was exonerated along with other NFL and MLB players in the rogue newspaper lies.

    Case closed Peyton > Brady the cheater and liar 🤥

  96. historyisyourfriend says:
    November 1, 2018 at 10:46 am
    In the era of real defenses, Montana was perfect on the biggest stage of them all. And to top that off, he never threw one INT on that biggest stage. That…is perfection/GOAT status. And this is from a Steelers fan by the way. You want to be the GOAT? Play in the real defense era of football and perform flawlessly on the biggest stage in the game. Brady, unfortunately can’t claim any of that.
    Only millennial types think that inflated no defense era stats trump perfection. Same people who think Brady is greater than Montana also claim Lebron is better than Mike. Just illogical thinking all around.
    —-
    Montana made it to 4 Super Bowls and got thumped before he got there more than once. Nobody says that 4 gold medals is better than 5 golds and 3 silvers. 🙂

    Also it’s important to note he feasted on inferior AFC competition. The AFC was weak back then. In fact ZERO of his 4 AFC opponents had a plus-rated strength of schedule that year – that’s how weak the AFC was. It really puts that 0 interception “accomplishment” into its proper perspective.

    Brady’s Super Bowls were won against a range of very good to historically great teams. No tomato cans.
    How would Montana have done if he actually played good competition in the Super Bowl? Who knows. Judging by his NFC playoff flops and one and dones over the years against great NFC competition I suspect it wouldn’t be 4-0 and 0 interceptions. 🙂

  97. None of todays QB’s can ever be the “Greatest of all time”, Because they play in a much easier game, with all the protection rules, and all the things that the defense can’t do anymore, and so on, and so on!

  98. weepingjebus says:
    November 1, 2018 at 9:32 am
    Tom Brady has the most wins, the most playoff wins, the most AFC championship wins, and the most SB wins as a QB in NFL history. Compared to Montana, Brady (202) has almost twice the number of career wins as Montana (117), and 11 more playoff wins (27 vs 16). To put that in perspective, Aaron Rodgers has 9 playoffs wins TOTAL. Unitas? 6. Graham? 4. And that’s not just due to Brady’s career longevity — Brady’s playoff winning percentage is also higher than Montana’s (.730 vs .696) which of course explains why Montana didn’t even make it to 5 SBs let alone 8. If you cut Brady’s career in half down the middle, each separate half would individually stack up well against the other all time greats and each half would qualify for the HOF. This debate is over and has been for a long time now.

    ______

    It is not.

    Goat is not a tabulation of a team’s recognition.

    I love Brady and Rodgers, but to think either one is not out of football by now in 80-90’s era football is laughable. These current records are a result of a league office and owners that are allowing these QB’s to play longer, plain and simple.

    Who in the AFC the last 20 years has put up the fight that the NFC East did in the 80-90’s. For Joe Montana to get to 4 and win 4 with those Washington, NY, Philly and Bears Defenses waiting, is a greater accomplishment than what Bill and Brady have done.

    It’s why the NFC flat out dominated the super bowl back then. Because the real championship was won back then when the NFC championship game was played.

    Brady, Rodgers, and Manning do not belong with Montana. He exceeded when teams would have no issues with taking your QB out, and the NFL did not intervene.

    Honestly,

    I would take Montana and Starr over any of them. Not old enough to go back further than that.

  99. GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Brady’s Super Bowls were won against a range of very good to historically great teams. No tomato cans.
    How would Montana have done if he actually played good competition in the Super Bowl? Who knows. Judging by his NFC playoff flops and one and dones over the years against great NFC competition I suspect it wouldn’t be 4-0 and 0 interceptions. 🙂

    ___

    Please.

    Brady lost the Super Bowl to the best defenses he played against. Not all time great defenses either.

    Montana had to play the best before he got to the Super Bowl. Brady has never seen a defense of the bears, eagles, or giants caliber from back then.

    As a Packer fan, i won’t give Rodgers that credit. Can some of you Brady apologists try to be objective?

  100. I think some fans are confusing great with GOAT, Brady is one of the Goats – lets leave the rings out and just look at the accomplishments AFC Championship wins, Play-off wins, etc. Packers fans feel Rodgers is a GOAT simply because he wears the Green and Gold and the history behind the organization – so by default they think he is a GOAT. Packers fans your own QB said Brady was the GOAT. If that doesn’t make you take off your gold glasses and stop drinking the Green Kool-Aid you have been for years I don’t know what will.

    /////////////

    … You cannot have “one of the G.O.A.T’s” then say flip it back to a individual “G.O.A.T”… If Brady is one of G.O.A.T’s, then so is Rodgers. About who is the actual individual GOAT… that’s always going to be up to debate as it’s a TEAM SPORT. Coaching, Supporting cast & other players all have affect on players success, it’s in the system. Brady has undoubted talent and a great will to win, no different then Rodgers. Both are G.O.A.T’s.

  101. GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 11:57 am

    Brady’s Super Bowls were won against a range of very good to historically great teams. No tomato cans.

    ————————————————————————————

    Brady barely squeaked by a Jake Delhomme led Panthers team with a 3 point win. Similar to their win over a Matt Ryan led Falcons team. Both of those teams finished in the bottom half of their divisions the following season.

    They barely got by the Eagles and Donovan McNabb when Terrell Owens was playing on a broken leg not fully healed.

    Brady’s two most notable Super Bowl wins (against top quality opponents) were both defensive wins. The Patriots defense held the Greatest Show on Turf to just 17 points. And Malcom Butler’s interception of Russell Wilson won the game for them.

    Brady’s 3 Super Bowl losses all rest on him. Last year Brady blew the game at crunch time when he held the ball too long and Brandon Graham caused the Brady fumble. In the two games vs the Giants (and these weren’t the Lawrence Taylor Giants). Brady’s offense was held to 22 and 14 points below their season averages.

  102. A) we don’t know how yesterdays players would look with today 24-7-365 training regiments and “supplements”
    ———–
    You’re right, we don’t. That doesn’t mean we know for sure how Brady would have done back then either.
    =====

    I wasn’t taking shots at Brady.

    I was taking shots at the weakest era of football I’ve seen.

  103. Montana had no names like Willie Davis, JJ Birden and Jonathan Hayes as his starting receivers/tight end.
    ***************************

    This one here is unbelievable to me – someone saying that Montana had no on to throw to…i know that it was his KC time, but to say this and NOT mention the swill that Brady WON Super Bowl games with is comical.

    No QB has done more with less than Brady – that’s not even debatable at this point, but have at it. I’ll happily sit back and watch my Pats and continue to enjoy the historic run they’ve been on.

  104. So Peyton performed significantly better than Brady in 9 losses while Brady’s team won all 9 games. Brady has superior teams and coaching

    Denver has sucked since Peyton retired
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    So you cherry picked 9 random games that Brady won to try and say Peyton was better? What a joke. In total for the playoffs, Brady has a better QB rating, TD:INT ratio, and average yards per attempt. Peyton slightly edges in comp %. Brady is light years ahead of Peyton come playoff time. Further proof – here is the detail of Peyton’s 4 SB appearances. His 4 total are worse than Brady’s bottom 4 SBs

    Manning: 103/105; 1,001 yards; 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 77.4 rating

    Bottom line, Manning was left in the dust ages ago by Brady. And to claim the NFL “exonerated” him is laughable. There is more evidence that Manning took HGH then there will ever be that Brady orchestrated a scheme to remove 0.2 PSI from footballs. But please, go on believing the NFL which continues to claim cold weather does not affect the PSI in footballs.

  105. Brady barely squeaked by a Jake Delhomme led Panthers team with a 3 point win. Similar to their win over a Matt Ryan led Falcons team. Both of those teams finished in the bottom half of their divisions the following season.

    They barely got by the Eagles and Donovan McNabb when Terrell Owens was playing on a broken leg not fully healed.

    Brady’s two most notable Super Bowl wins (against top quality opponents) were both defensive wins. The Patriots defense held the Greatest Show on Turf to just 17 points. And Malcom Butler’s interception of Russell Wilson won the game for them.

    Brady’s 3 Super Bowl losses all rest on him. Last year Brady blew the game at crunch time when he held the ball too long and Brandon Graham caused the Brady fumble. In the two games vs the Giants (and these weren’t the Lawrence Taylor Giants). Brady’s offense was held to 22 and 14 points below their season averages.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    This is a funny post. Brady gets no credit for any of his SB wins and all the blame for the SB loses, obviously ignoring the fact that Brady gave the Pats the lead late in the 4th quarter for all three loses and the defense could not hold. Oh, and he also threw for over 500 yards, 3TDs, and a 115 rating, but the loss is clearly on him. Of course, that same Falcons team you speak of blew the doors off Aaron Rodgers the week before to get to the SB. But yea, none of the SB wins have anything to do with Brady. Go tell that to the Falcons and Seahawks defense.

  106. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 12:55 pm
    So Peyton performed significantly better than Brady in 9 losses while Brady’s team won all 9 games. Brady has superior teams and coaching
    Denver has sucked since Peyton retired
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    So you cherry picked 9 random games that Brady won to try and say Peyton was better? What a joke. In total for the playoffs, Brady has a better QB rating, TD:INT ratio, and average yards per attempt. Peyton slightly edges in comp %. Brady is light years ahead of Peyton come playoff time. Further proof – here is the detail of Peyton’s 4 SB appearances. His 4 total are worse than Brady’s bottom 4 SBs
    Manning: 103/105; 1,001 yards; 3 TDs, 5 INTs, 77.4 rating
    Bottom line, Manning was left in the dust ages ago by Brady. And to claim the NFL “exonerated” him is laughable. There is more evidence that Manning took HGH then there will ever be that Brady orchestrated a scheme to remove 0.2 PSI from footballs. But please, go on believing the NFL which continues to claim cold weather does not affect the PSI in footballs.
    ———————
    PEDton’s stats at least after 2011 are null and void as far as I’m concerned because he cheated to get back on the field. There’s really no reason why his wife would need fertility treatments using Chinese HGH sourced from Balco, the biggest doping scandal in American sports history.

    As far as I’m concerned Tom Brady is still the NFL single season passing TD record holder and Brees the single season yardage record holder.

  107. Can we stop comparing current players and teams to the non-salary cap and non-free agent era? Back then, if you had a good team, you got to keep it!

  108. sigbouncer says:
    November 1, 2018 at 12:43 pm
    GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 11:57 am
    Brady’s Super Bowls were won against a range of very good to historically great teams. No tomato cans.
    ————————————————————————————
    Brady barely squeaked by a Jake Delhomme led Panthers team with a 3 point win. Similar to their win over a Matt Ryan led Falcons team. Both of those teams finished in the bottom half of their divisions the following season.
    They barely got by the Eagles and Donovan McNabb when Terrell Owens was playing on a broken leg not fully healed.
    Brady’s two most notable Super Bowl wins (against top quality opponents) were both defensive wins. The Patriots defense held the Greatest Show on Turf to just 17 points. And Malcom Butler’s interception of Russell Wilson won the game for them.
    Brady’s 3 Super Bowl losses all rest on him. Last year Brady blew the game at crunch time when he held the ball too long and Brandon Graham caused the Brady fumble. In the two games vs the Giants (and these weren’t the Lawrence Taylor Giants). Brady’s offense was held to 22 and 14 points below their season averages.

    ——————-
    In other words
    When Brady’s team wins, then he did nothing. HIs team won it for him. Wins and losses are a team stat.
    When Brady’s team loses, then his losses are all on him.

    Tee hee 🙂 Patriot Hater is so freaking hilarious!

  109. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:02 pm
    Brady barely squeaked by a Jake Delhomme led Panthers team with a 3 point win. Similar to their win over a Matt Ryan led Falcons team. Both of those teams finished in the bottom half of their divisions the following season.
    They barely got by the Eagles and Donovan McNabb when Terrell Owens was playing on a broken leg not fully healed.
    Brady’s two most notable Super Bowl wins (against top quality opponents) were both defensive wins. The Patriots defense held the Greatest Show on Turf to just 17 points. And Malcom Butler’s interception of Russell Wilson won the game for them.
    Brady’s 3 Super Bowl losses all rest on him. Last year Brady blew the game at crunch time when he held the ball too long and Brandon Graham caused the Brady fumble. In the two games vs the Giants (and these weren’t the Lawrence Taylor Giants). Brady’s offense was held to 22 and 14 points below their season averages.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    This is a funny post. Brady gets no credit for any of his SB wins and all the blame for the SB loses, obviously ignoring the fact that Brady gave the Pats the lead late in the 4th quarter for all three loses and the defense could not hold. Oh, and he also threw for over 500 yards, 3TDs, and a 115 rating, but the loss is clearly on him. Of course, that same Falcons team you speak of blew the doors off Aaron Rodgers the week before to get to the SB. But yea, none of the SB wins have anything to do with Brady. Go tell that to the Falcons and Seahawks defense.

    —–
    Comical isn’t it? 🙂

    #ILoveLaughingAtPatriotHater
    #TheyreSoFunny
    #ILoveMockingThemAgainAndAgain
    #TeeHeeHaha

  110. I would take Montana and Starr over any of them.
    =====

    I’m might regret this.. but I’m not sure Starr would get a chance to play in this era.

    Jump right to leadership qualities, because that’s what he was… but look at all the college QBs with intangibles, moxy.. grit.. Danny Wuerffel.. Ty Detmer.. TIM TEBOW.. that never got a legit shot in the League.

    Teams will roll out Jeff George or Kyle Boller, and fall all over themselves for Akili Smith before they give the Starrs of the world a shot.

  111. No QB has done more with less than Brady – that’s not even debatable at this point, but have at it.
    =====

    Elway.. and Favre didn’t win near what the other 2 did.. but other than Sharpe and Freeman, he had some extremely thin units as well.

  112. aarons444 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 12:47 pm
    A) we don’t know how yesterdays players would look with today 24-7-365 training regiments and “supplements”
    ———–
    You’re right, we don’t. That doesn’t mean we know for sure how Brady would have done back then either.
    =====

    I wasn’t taking shots at Brady.

    I was taking shots at the weakest era of football I’ve seen.

    ——-
    I know you weren’t. I could say the same thing about any good modern QB who would play in the old eras of the game.

  113. And what evidence is there that Manning to HGH

    The deflator wants to know

    My point on Mannings 9 losses was he played well. 7 were one and dones.

    Brady can play poorly and still wins

    Brady sucked for 3 quarters against the Seahawks and Falcons and still won because he defense came through. Seahawks lost defensive players in the game and 3 others were playing hurt. Brady didn’t start to play well until Lane and Avril got hurt.

    Brady sucked both times against the Giants. One of the greatest offenses ever scored 14 measly points against the Giants. Brady has never played a Belicheat coached team.

  114. Can we stop comparing current players and teams to the non-salary cap and non-free agent era? Back then, if you had a good team, you got to keep it!
    =====

    And today 2/3 of the teams are just watered down crap.

    Belichick is vulture, feeding off a bunch of carcasses.

    Give me the 80s and 90s all day long.

  115. Please.

    Brady lost the Super Bowl to the best defenses he played against. Not all time great defenses either.

    Montana had to play the best before he got to the Super Bowl. Brady has never seen a defense of the bears, eagles, or giants caliber from back then.

    As a Packer fan, i won’t give Rodgers that credit. Can some of you Brady apologists try to be objective?
    ———
    No actually he beat them. The 2014 Seahawks defense was a historically great defense. The 2001 Rams defense was outstanding. The 2004 Eagles defense was far superior to the 2017 Eagles D and the latter was very good themselves despite Brady lighting them up.

    Montana got his tomato cans in the Super Bowl. You’re not going to convince me that his opponents – all with a negative rated SOS – were great teams. They were a product of their conference which indisputably was weak.

  116. aarons444 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:06 pm
    Wake me when Aaron wins #2
    =====

    Not gonna happen.

    He’s about to turn 35 and the Packers are going nowhere fast.
    ——
    I think the NFC is a bit overrated to be honest. Wouldn’t surprise me that much if they come out of the conference.

  117. Can we stop comparing current players and teams to the non-unrestricted free agent era (before 1993) and non-salary cap era (before 1994)?! To me, it’s meaningless to compare current players to players from the pre-1990s era. From the early 90s on, it’s a different league! Back then, if you had a good team, you got to keep it!

    Yes, you can compare Brady to Rodgers and Manning all the day and it’s a valid comparison but comparing him to Montana and comparing the success and stats are meaningless. Just admit your pick is based on your own personal preferences!

  118. @GoodellMustGo aka TyLawPick6,

    How can you consider Brady to be the GOAT when he is 1-3 in AFCC games against Peyton who you consider to be a joke in big games? Your argument falls apart here. Either Peyton is not a joke in big games or Brady is really lame to lose to a big joke.

  119. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:02 pm

    This is a funny post. Brady gets no credit for any of his SB wins and all the blame for the SB loses, obviously ignoring the fact that Brady gave the Pats the lead late in the 4th quarter for all three loses and the defense could not hold. Oh, and he also threw for over 500 yards, 3TDs, and a 115 rating, but the loss is clearly on him. Of course, that same Falcons team you speak of blew the doors off Aaron Rodgers the week before to get to the SB. But yea, none of the SB wins have anything to do with Brady. Go tell that to the Falcons and Seahawks defense.

    ————————————————————————————————————

    I give Brady credit for their wins over the Panthers and Eagles. He played very well in those two games.

    Against the Seahawks Brady threw 2 interceptions. One on the Seattle 10 yard line in the first quarter, nullifying an easy scoring opportunity. And an even bigger one in the third quarter on the New England 34 yard line, leading to a Seahawks touchdown.

    Against Atlanta Brady threw a pick 6 returned for an 82 yard touchdown just before halftime and was sacked 5 times (twice on key 3rd down plays). And that was against a terrible Falcons defense ranking 27th in the league in points given up and 25th in the league in yards given up.

  120. I think the NFC is a bit overrated to be honest. Wouldn’t surprise me that much if they come out of the conference.
    =====

    Definitely not what we thought they’d be. Atlanta, GB and Minny saw to that.

  121. Against the 2001 Rams, Brady scored 13 points. The FG as time expired would have been meaningless if the Patriots defense didn’t play great. They won the game.

    Seattle’s defense in 2014 was a shell of itself and not comparable to 2013. Their 3 best
    players were severely injured and their best pass rusher was out.

    ———–

    GoodellMustGo says:

    No actually he beat them. The 2014 Seahawks defense was a historically great defense. The 2001 Rams defense was outstanding. The 2004 Eagles defense was far superior to the 2017 Eagles D and the latter was very good themselves despite Brady lighting them up.

    Montana got his tomato cans in the Super Bowl. You’re not going to convince me that his opponents – all with a negative rated SOS – were great teams. They were a product of their conference which indisputably was weak.

  122. grumpysal says:
    November 1, 2018 at 12:52 pm

    No QB has done more with less than Brady – that’s not even debatable at this point, but have at it

    ————————————————————————————-

    Then you should have no problem naming Montana’s starting skill position players in his first Super Bowl without looking it up.

  123. I think we need to ask ourselves how many titles would Aaron Rodgers have if he played in New England? I would take a guess and say he would have as many as Brady.

  124. . The 2014 Seahawks defense was a historically great defense.

    ///////

    They were until the Super Bowl

    Thomas, Sherman and Chancellor were all playing with significant injuries that required off season surgery. But more importantly Brady sucked until Lane and Avril went out with injuries.

  125. And what evidence is there that Manning to HGH

    The deflator wants to know

    My point on Mannings 9 losses was he played well. 7 were one and dones.

    Brady can play poorly and still wins
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I’ll take the fact that there was HGH shipped to his house in his wife’s name. That’s not really debatable. But yea, that’s nothing to one guy calling himself the Deflator in a text message sent in May during the offseason. At least try to be somewhat objective.

    Your point is negated by the fact that Manning won his second SB while putting together one of the worst SB performances ever. He was 13/23; 141 yards; 0 TD and 1 INT; 56.6 QB rating. This was the definition of being carried by his team.

  126. They were until the Super Bowl

    Thomas, Sherman and Chancellor were all playing with significant injuries that required off season surgery. But more importantly Brady sucked until Lane and Avril went out with injuries.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Its only excuses when trying to diminish what Brady has accomplished. Injuries happen with every team. Regardless if those guys were injured, they were still in the game and performing well enough that they held the Pats in check until the 4th quarter.

    The Pats won a SB without Gronk. Last year they played without Edelman and Cooks when he was knocked out in the first half. Injuries happen every year to every team. You can make that excuse for every SB winner.

  127. Thomas, Sherman and Chancellor were all playing with significant injuries that required off season surgery. But more importantly Brady sucked until Lane and Avril went out with injuries.
    =====

    Watch again.

    Brady was carving them up early. That game may be a lot different if not for an early redzone INT.

  128. I fully believe that Rodgers thinks he’s the best of all time. The thing is though, what is the criteria? Best regular season stats? He still isn’t best all time. That’s not my definition anyway. Brady is the best of all time. It’s not even close. If it was close, Rodgers wouldn’t be #2. Rodgers isn’t even top 5. Win two more SB’s and we can start asking if he’s top 5.

  129. Montana got his tomato cans in the Super Bowl. You’re not going to convince me that his opponents – all with a negative rated SOS – were great teams.
    ======

    Great? 1 was..

    1981 – Bengals were the #3 offense, Ken Anderson was MVP
    1984 – The Dolphins were a record setting offense.. and had the #7 defense.. if that isn’t a great team, neither are the ’07 Pats
    1988 – Pretty much the same script as ’81.. Boomer was MVP, Bengals were the #1 offense this time
    1989 – The Broncos were the #1 D.. and Elway was the Aaron Rodgers of his day.. an unstoppable force

    Those teams weren’t any worse than the ’04 Eagles, ’03 Panthers… and all 4 of them were better than the Giants teams of ’07 and ’11

  130. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:42 pm
    And what evidence is there that Manning to HGH

    The deflator wants to know

    My point on Mannings 9 losses was he played well. 7 were one and dones.

    Brady can play poorly and still wins
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I’ll take the fact that there was HGH shipped to his house in his wife’s name. That’s not really debatable. But yea, that’s nothing to one guy calling himself the Deflator in a text message sent in May during the offseason. At least try to be somewhat objective.

    Your point is negated by the fact that Manning won his second SB while putting together one of the worst SB performances ever. He was 13/23; 141 yards; 0 TD and 1 INT; 56.6 QB rating. This was the definition of being carried by his team.

    ———–

    To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.

  131. las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:33 pm
    Against the 2001 Rams, Brady scored 13 points. The FG as time expired would have been meaningless if the Patriots defense didn’t play great. They won the game.
    Seattle’s defense in 2014 was a shell of itself and not comparable to 2013. Their 3 best
    players were severely injured and their best pass rusher was out.
    ————————–
    I don’t know if I’d say the Patriots defense played that great in that 2001 Super Bowl. They made plays but they did allow the Rams to score 2 quick TD to tie, and Warner to throw for a passing yardage record, I’m sure it was over 400 yards. My point was the Rams defense was no tomato can, they might have even been the best in football with almost no weaknesses. Rookie Brady played really well against them, didn’t crumble under pressure and executed the game plan to perfection. Also I’ve already said that my MVP vote would have actually gone to Antowain Smith in that game, he was criminally underrated, he was a bulldog and he was a huge reason why the Patriots offense held that great Rams defense in check IMO.

    The perception of the 2014 Seahawks defense is skewed by their slow start to the season. In the latter half of the season they were playing at a historical level on par with 2013. They had a stretch where they allowed 39 points… in 6 games combined. The 2013 Seahawks defense never had a run like that. Even with the slow start – easily the best defense in football and like 2013 one of the best defenses of all time. Fewest yards per play. #1 pass defense in the league. Top 5 run defense. #1 in scoring. The LOB was still the LOB.

    And minus one throw (which was a great play) Brady lit them up in the first half – it’s not like he only did well after Avril left the game.

  132. To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    What’s your point? He also missed 8-9 games that season and the team didn’t miss a beat with Brock Osweiler. Manning was carried to his second SB and put up one of the worst seasons as a starting QB. He also played mediocre at best when the Colts beat the vaunted Bears in 2006.

    Brady has Manning beat by a country mile, but you already knew that fake Patriots fan. How are the Jets looking this year?

  133. 1981 – Bengals were the #3 offense, Ken Anderson was MVP
    1984 – The Dolphins were a record setting offense.. and had the #7 defense.. if that isn’t a great team, neither are the ’07 Pats
    1988 – Pretty much the same script as ’81.. Boomer was MVP, Bengals were the #1 offense this time
    1989 – The Broncos were the #1 D.. and Elway was the Aaron Rodgers of his day.. an unstoppable force
    —————————–
    They still all padded their accomplishments playing in a weak AFC. The 84 Dolphins didn’t have much of a defense and neither did either Bengals team.

    The 89 Broncos were a really good team, much complete than anyone else Montana faced in the Super Bowl – but IMO they weren’t better than the 01 Rams or 14 Seahawks.

  134. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:12 pm
    blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:42 pm
    And what evidence is there that Manning to HGH
    The deflator wants to know
    My point on Mannings 9 losses was he played well. 7 were one and dones.
    Brady can play poorly and still wins
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I’ll take the fact that there was HGH shipped to his house in his wife’s name. That’s not really debatable. But yea, that’s nothing to one guy calling himself the Deflator in a text message sent in May during the offseason. At least try to be somewhat objective.
    Your point is negated by the fact that Manning won his second SB while putting together one of the worst SB performances ever. He was 13/23; 141 yards; 0 TD and 1 INT; 56.6 QB rating. This was the definition of being carried by his team.
    ———–
    To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.

    —–
    If that was PEDton’s best performance then that’s not a compliment. The Broncos had nearly 100 yards of offense less than the Patriots did and almost half the number of first downs. PEDton stunk. What won that game was Broncos pass rush overwhelming the Patriots offensive line.

    Anyway it doesn’t count in my book anyway since PEDton cheated and should have been out of football by then.

  135. I’ll take the fact that there was HGH shipped to his house in his wife’s name. That’s not really debatable. But yea, that’s nothing to one guy calling himself the Deflator in a text message sent in May during the offseason. At least try to be somewhat objective.

    Your point is negated by the fact that Manning won his second SB while putting together one of the worst SB performances ever. He was 13/23; 141 yards; 0 TD and 1 INT; 56.6 QB rating. This was the definition of being carried by his team.

    ——-

    There is no evidence that it was shipped to his wife or house. Plus he and others accused were exonerated.

    Deflator nickname proves he was deflating footballs over a period of years plus he also said in the same text. I’m not going to ESPN yet. And all the other evidence but don’t let facts get in the way.

    And your point about Manning’s stats in that SB prove my point that SB wins are a team effort and not one player.

    That’s why I made the argument that Peyton stats in 7 playoff losses and both SB’s he had good stats but his team didn’t help him Brady had terrible stats in 9 playoff games but won.

    I love when people think they’ve proving their point but actually they’re proving my point.

    Peyton- class guy
    Brady – cheater and liar who told a cameraman last year to eff off

  136. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:12 pm

    To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.

    ———————————

    In spite of which Brady was within a missed 2 point conversion of tying the game. And the only reason the 2 point conversion was needed was that his place kicker missed his first PAT ever.

  137. There is no evidence that it was shipped to his wife or house. Plus he and others accused were exonerated.

    Deflator nickname proves he was deflating footballs over a period of years plus he also said in the same text. I’m not going to ESPN yet. And all the other evidence but don’t let facts get in the way.

    And your point about Manning’s stats in that SB prove my point that SB wins are a team effort and not one player.

    That’s why I made the argument that Peyton stats in 7 playoff losses and both SB’s he had good stats but his team didn’t help him Brady had terrible stats in 9 playoff games but won.

    I love when people think they’ve proving their point but actually they’re proving my point.

    Peyton- class guy
    Brady – cheater and liar who told a cameraman last year to eff off
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    There is so much wrong with this post I really don’t know where to start. First, a guy calling himself the Deflator one time in May proves absolutely nothing about a game in January. The NFL failed to even show anything happened in the AFC championship game, let alone a long-running scheme. They rested on “more probable than not, generally aware”. The ball deflation was caused naturally as is backed by 99.9% of the scientific community who publicly support this, so let’s talk about actual facts and exoneration.

    Manning was never exonerated. HGH was shipped to his house in his wife’s name. He hired two guys that posed as fake cops to go to the accuser’s house. He went from not being able to grip/throw a football to having his best season ever the next year. Then the year the NFL starts testing for HGH and his play declines. The owner of the clinic he used to frequent was arrested for importing illegal HGH. And on and on and on….. Now I’m not 100% sure Manning took HGH, but the facts and circumstantial evidence are significantly more overwhelming then the two ridiculous points you bring up about Brady, neither of which mean anything.

    Manning is a classy guy? Tell that to the Tennessee trainer.

  138. packfanaj12 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 12:32 pm
    I think some fans are confusing great with GOAT, Brady is one of the Goats – lets leave the rings out and just look at the accomplishments AFC Championship wins, Play-off wins, etc. Packers fans feel Rodgers is a GOAT simply because he wears the Green and Gold and the history behind the organization – so by default they think he is a GOAT. Packers fans your own QB said Brady was the GOAT. If that doesn’t make you take off your gold glasses and stop drinking the Green Kool-Aid you have been for years I don’t know what will.

    /////////////

    … You cannot have “one of the G.O.A.T’s” then say flip it back to a individual “G.O.A.T”… If Brady is one of G.O.A.T’s, then so is Rodgers. About who is the actual individual GOAT… that’s always going to be up to debate as it’s a TEAM SPORT. Coaching, Supporting cast & other players all have affect on players success, it’s in the system. Brady has undoubted talent and a great will to win, no different then Rodgers. Both are G.O.A.T’s.

    //////////

    Team Sport eh? Why has GB been fielding a one man team for years? Those who do the analysis say the only reason Green Bay is competitive is because of Rodgers. Coaches and the organization have failed to put the supporting cast around Rodgers. Clearly what you have said is true because Rodgers would have more than one ring.

  139. There is no evidence that it was shipped to his wife or house. Plus he and others accused were exonerated.

    Deflator nickname proves he was deflating footballs over a period of years plus he also said in the same text. I’m not going to ESPN yet. And all the other evidence but don’t let facts get in the way.

    And your point about Manning’s stats in that SB prove my point that SB wins are a team effort and not one player.

    That’s why I made the argument that Peyton stats in 7 playoff losses and both SB’s he had good stats but his team didn’t help him Brady had terrible stats in 9 playoff games but won.

    I love when people think they’ve proving their point but actually they’re proving my point.

    Peyton- class guy
    Brady – cheater and liar who told a cameraman last year to eff off

    —————–

    You’re actually behind the times, bud. Peyton admitted that HGH was shipped to his house, but insists it was for his wife and that it’s her private matter and he won’t discuss what it was for. There’s no disputing that HGH was at his home. Imagine how much you’d be all over Brady if Gisele got a shipment of HGH sent to her.

  140. And the Seahawks defense was great in the NFCCG against the Packers. But, in that game Sherman tore his elbow, Chancellor tore his MCL and Earl Thomas separated his shoulder. None would have even played if it wasn’t the Super Bowl. Those players were a shell of how they usually played. Once Avril was out there was no pass rush and Brady could stand in the pocket all day and pick apart the Seahawks decimated secondary.

    ——————–

    GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:42 pm
    las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:33 pm
    Against the 2001 Rams, Brady scored 13 points. The FG as time expired would have been meaningless if the Patriots defense didn’t play great. They won the game.
    Seattle’s defense in 2014 was a shell of itself and not comparable to 2013. Their 3 best
    players were severely injured and their best pass rusher was out.
    ————————–
    I don’t know if I’d say the Patriots defense played that great in that 2001 Super Bowl. They made plays but they did allow the Rams to score 2 quick TD to tie, and Warner to throw for a passing yardage record, I’m sure it was over 400 yards. My point was the Rams defense was no tomato can, they might have even been the best in football with almost no weaknesses. Rookie Brady played really well against them, didn’t crumble under pressure and executed the game plan to perfection. Also I’ve already said that my MVP vote would have actually gone to Antowain Smith in that game, he was criminally underrated, he was a bulldog and he was a huge reason why the Patriots offense held that great Rams defense in check IMO.

    The perception of the 2014 Seahawks defense is skewed by their slow start to the season. In the latter half of the season they were playing at a historical level on par with 2013. They had a stretch where they allowed 39 points… in 6 games combined. The 2013 Seahawks defense never had a run like that. Even with the slow start – easily the best defense in football and like 2013 one of the best defenses of all time. Fewest yards per play. #1 pass defense in the league. Top 5 run defense. #1 in scoring. The LOB was still the LOB.

    And minus one throw (which was a great play) Brady lit them up in the first half – it’s not like he only did well after Avril left the game.

  141. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:45 pm
    To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    What’s your point? He also missed 8-9 games that season and the team didn’t miss a beat with Brock Osweiler.

    ———–

    Didn’t miss a beat? They lost to the Raiders at home, lost to the Steelers, and were on the verge of losing to the Chargers and the #1 seed when they benched Osweiler. Do you think they win that SB if they come to Foxborough in the playoffs?

  142. GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:53 pm
    patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:12 pm
    blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:42 pm
    And what evidence is there that Manning to HGH
    The deflator wants to know
    My point on Mannings 9 losses was he played well. 7 were one and dones.
    Brady can play poorly and still wins
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________
    I’ll take the fact that there was HGH shipped to his house in his wife’s name. That’s not really debatable. But yea, that’s nothing to one guy calling himself the Deflator in a text message sent in May during the offseason. At least try to be somewhat objective.
    Your point is negated by the fact that Manning won his second SB while putting together one of the worst SB performances ever. He was 13/23; 141 yards; 0 TD and 1 INT; 56.6 QB rating. This was the definition of being carried by his team.
    ———–
    To be fair, his best performance came while on the way to that 2nd SB when he outplayed Brady in the AFCC game by scoring twice as many TDs. This despite Brady having Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola on the field.

    —–
    If that was PEDton’s best performance then that’s not a compliment. The Broncos had nearly 100 yards of offense less than the Patriots did and almost half the number of first downs. PEDton stunk. What won that game was Broncos pass rush overwhelming the Patriots offensive line.

    ———–

    The Broncos offensive line was worse. Only their center, Matt Paradis maybe could have started for the Patriots offensive line. And that’s a big maybe. So yes the Broncos pass rush was better but so was the Patriots OL which doesn’t make it an advantage for Peyton. Number of yards are irrelevant given the Patriots were playing catch up after falling behind 2 TDs early so they had to pass. What won the game ultimately was Peyton scoring twice as many TDs as Brady despite Brady having a better offense.

  143. Didn’t miss a beat? They lost to the Raiders at home, lost to the Steelers, and were on the verge of losing to the Chargers and the #1 seed when they benched Osweiler. Do you think they win that SB if they come to Foxborough in the playoffs?
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Peyton missed more than half the season and they were still the #1 seed. Brock Osweiler had what, 6-7 wins? Yes, they didn’t miss a beat when Manning went down.

  144. What won the game ultimately was Peyton scoring twice as many TDs as Brady despite Brady having a better offense.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Huh? How did Brady have a better offense? Edelman was still recovering from a broken foot and Gronk missed significant time that year as well. Not to mention Ghost missed a crucial extra point. Compare that to D. Thomas, Decker, Sanders, CJ Andersen, etc. Broncos offense was better than the Pats and the defense was light years ahead of the Pats. Hence how Manning was able to have a 56 QB rating in the SB and the Broncos still won.

  145. And the Seahawks defense was great against the Packers in the NFCCG but Sherman tore his right arm up, Chancellor tore his MCL and Thomas separated his shoulder. None would have played if it wasn’t the Super Bowl. As long as the Seahawks had a pass rush they could hang in there but once Avril was out, Brady could sit back in the pocket and pick their depleted secondary apart.

    In the Super Bowl against the Rams, the Patriots defense held one of the greatest offenses in history to 17 points and scored 7 of their own. Maybe their best performance ever. They won that game.

    —————————–

    las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 4:10 pm
    And the Seahawks defense was great in the NFCCG against the Packers. But, in that game Sherman tore his elbow, Chancellor tore his MCL and Earl Thomas separated his shoulder. None would have even played if it wasn’t the Super Bowl. Those players were a shell of how they usually played. Once Avril was out there was no pass rush and Brady could stand in the pocket all day and pick apart the Seahawks decimated secondary.

    ——————–

    GoodellMustGo says:
    November 1, 2018 at 2:42 pm
    las0023 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 1:33 pm
    Against the 2001 Rams, Brady scored 13 points. The FG as time expired would have been meaningless if the Patriots defense didn’t play great. They won the game.
    Seattle’s defense in 2014 was a shell of itself and not comparable to 2013. Their 3 best
    players were severely injured and their best pass rusher was out.
    ————————–
    I don’t know if I’d say the Patriots defense played that great in that 2001 Super Bowl. They made plays but they did allow the Rams to score 2 quick TD to tie, and Warner to throw for a passing yardage record, I’m sure it was over 400 yards. My point was the Rams defense was no tomato can, they might have even been the best in football with almost no weaknesses. Rookie Brady played really well against them, didn’t crumble under pressure and executed the game plan to perfection. Also I’ve already said that my MVP vote would have actually gone to Antowain Smith in that game, he was criminally underrated, he was a bulldog and he was a huge reason why the Patriots offense held that great Rams defense in check IMO.

    The perception of the 2014 Seahawks defense is skewed by their slow start to the season. In the latter half of the season they were playing at a historical level on par with 2013. They had a stretch where they allowed 39 points… in 6 games combined. The 2013 Seahawks defense never had a run like that. Even with the slow start – easily the best defense in football and like 2013 one of the best defenses of all time. Fewest yards per play. #1 pass defense in the league. Top 5 run defense. #1 in scoring. The LOB was still the LOB.

    And minus one throw (which was a great play) Brady lit them up in the first half – it’s not like he only did well after Avril left the game.

  146. The 89 Broncos were a really good team, much complete than anyone else Montana faced in the Super Bowl – but IMO they weren’t better than the 01 Rams or 14 Seahawks.
    ======

    Agreed.

  147. Huh? How did Brady have a better offense? Edelman was still recovering from a broken foot and Gronk missed significant time that year as well. Not to mention Ghost missed a crucial extra point. Compare that to D. Thomas, Decker, Sanders, CJ Andersen, etc. Broncos offense was better than the Pats and the defense was light years ahead of the Pats. Hence how Manning was able to have a 56 QB rating in the SB and the Broncos still won.

    ———

    If Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola played, the Patriots were a better offense. The Patriots offense was why the Patriots were favored going into that game. If you argue they were not 100% then neither was Manning coming off Plantiar Fasciatis.

  148. Peyton missed more than half the season and they were still the #1 seed. Brock Osweiler had what, 6-7 wins? Yes, they didn’t miss a beat when Manning went down.

    ——–

    If they lost to the Chargers in the last game of the regular season, not only they lose the #1 seed but the Chiefs also win the division. They would have been a wild card team going into the playoffs if Osweiler stayed in the game. I won’t minimize the role Osweiler played in their SB run just like I won’t minimize the role Garoppolo and Brissette played in our SB run. But facts are facts, the Broncos were a wildcard playoffs team had Osweiler not been benched.

  149. If Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola played, the Patriots were a better offense. The Patriots offense was why the Patriots were favored going into that game. If you argue they were not 100% then neither was Manning coming off Plantiar Fasciatis.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    If you weren’t a fake patriots fan maybe the post would make sense. The Broncos offense going into that game was far better then the injury-plagued patriots. Its not an excuse, they still could have won, but its the truth. Pats were also missing Dion Lewis to an ACL tear.

    Peyton didn’t matter at all the entire season. He was a joke. Hence why one of the worst back-ups in football game in and won 6-7 games when Manning was down. Also why Manning carried a 56 QB rating in the SB and they still won. Manning was a stand-in during the season. With that defense, they would have beat the Pats even if Osweiler started the AFC championship game as they did earlier in the year.

  150. blessedunliketherest says:
    November 1, 2018 at 4:40 pm
    Didn’t miss a beat? They lost to the Raiders at home, lost to the Steelers, and were on the verge of losing to the Chargers and the #1 seed when they benched Osweiler. Do you think they win that SB if they come to Foxborough in the playoffs?
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Peyton missed more than half the season and they were still the #1 seed. Brock Osweiler had what, 6-7 wins? Yes, they didn’t miss a beat when Manning went down.

    —————————-
    They sure didn’t. Broncos won 5 games with Osweiler as a starter. Most likely they win the Super Bowl anyway if Osweiler kept playing, the defense was that good.

    PEDton Manning was awful in 2015 and his team won despite his performance not because of it. He looked just as bad as I would have expected him to look after 2011 if he didn’t
    cheat with HGH. I refuse to take any of his records set as a Bronco seriously when they were clearly obtained by cheating.

  151. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    November 1, 2018 at 1:37 pm

    I think we need to ask ourselves how many titles would Aaron Rodgers have if he played in New England? I would take a guess and say he would have as many as Brady.

    =========================

    Why take shots at Rodgers like that? You’ve repeatedly said a high school QB could be as successful as Brady on the Pats. So you’re saying Rodgers, like Brady, is replaceable by a high school QB. Strange position to defend.

  152. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    The Broncos offensive line was worse. Only their center, Matt Paradis maybe could have started for the Patriots offensive line. And that’s a big maybe. So yes the Broncos pass rush was better but so was the Patriots OL which doesn’t make it an advantage for Peyton. Number of yards are irrelevant given the Patriots were playing catch up after falling behind 2 TDs early so they had to pass. What won the game ultimately was Peyton scoring twice as many TDs as Brady despite Brady having a better offense.

    =========================================================

    Nope. What that AFCCG game hinged on was that Brady was hit more in that game than any other QB in any game in the NFL that year and of course Gronk was out. And the Pats still hung in and had a shot at winning that game. And that does “create an advantage for Peyton” because it helps with starting field position when the defense does a good job. And Brady hardly had “a better offense” that day with his WR2 being Austin Collie and his leading rusher managing just 34 yards. Peyton had peak Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas, Welker (who helped Manning a lot by knocking out Talib), Decker and Moreno (1K ruyards that year and 10Tds) to work with. Pats didn’t have close to that offensive fire power on the field that day or that season overall. Fact.

    Also Pro Football Focus ranked 2013 Denver O-line 4th overall, while the Pats were only 14th that year.

  153. aarons444 says:
    November 1, 2018 at 5:38 pm
    The 89 Broncos were a really good team, much complete than anyone else Montana faced in the Super Bowl – but IMO they weren’t better than the 01 Rams or 14 Seahawks.
    ======
    Agreed.

    ————–
    My bad – that Broncos team actually did have a positive rated strength of schedule (not by much but still positive). That was the only such team Montana faced in a Super Bowl.

    But the disparity between the AFC and NFC was still very real and there was a good reason why the NFC won a whole bunch of Super Bowl titles in a row. Most of the time the AFC team that emerged from the conference was just fodder for a superior NFC team except for the 1990 Bills, and I thought the Patriots were competitive against the Packers too. It does put Montana’s 4-0 and 0 INT line in a different perspective than if he had to play phenomenal teams in the Super Bowl like Brady has a lot more often than not.

  154. Chill_Donahue says:
    November 2, 2018 at 10:12 am
    patsfan4lifesbchamps says:
    The Broncos offensive line was worse. Only their center, Matt Paradis maybe could have started for the Patriots offensive line. And that’s a big maybe. So yes the Broncos pass rush was better but so was the Patriots OL which doesn’t make it an advantage for Peyton. Number of yards are irrelevant given the Patriots were playing catch up after falling behind 2 TDs early so they had to pass. What won the game ultimately was Peyton scoring twice as many TDs as Brady despite Brady having a better offense.
    =========================================================
    Nope. What that AFCCG game hinged on was that Brady was hit more in that game than any other QB in any game in the NFL that year and of course Gronk was out. And the Pats still hung in and had a shot at winning that game. And that does “create an advantage for Peyton” because it helps with starting field position when the defense does a good job. And Brady hardly had “a better offense” that day with his WR2 being Austin Collie and his leading rusher managing just 34 yards. Peyton had peak Julius Thomas, Demaryius Thomas, Welker (who helped Manning a lot by knocking out Talib), Decker and Moreno (1K ruyards that year and 10Tds) to work with. Pats didn’t have close to that offensive fire power on the field that day or that season overall. Fact.
    Also Pro Football Focus ranked 2013 Denver O-line 4th overall, while the Pats were only 14th that year.

    —-
    Yup and there was a reason why DeGuglielmo was fired after that game.

  155. But the disparity between the AFC and NFC was still very real and there was a good reason why the NFC won a whole bunch of Super Bowl titles in a row
    =====

    Gibbs – 4 Super Bowls
    Parcells – 2 Super Bowls
    ’83-’88 Bears – possibly the greatest defensive run in NFL history

    New England never faced anything close to that in their conference.

  156. faithful49er707 says:
    October 31, 2018 at 9:24 pm
    I remember the GOAT basketball player Michael Jordan saying to a reporter after Jerry Stackhouse slight. Jordan said ” I never had their posters on my wall. They had mine ”

    Both Brady and Rodgers are no doubt greats but they wanted to be “Joe Cool”. Not the other way around.
    ———————————————-
    That comment was asinine when Jordan said it and time hasn’t made it any more intelligent for you to claim it either. Although I’m sure plenty of idiots think that’s an unanswerable argument. Tom Brady was 3 years old when he watched “The Catch” as a 49ers fan, I don’t think anyone was making posters of 3-year-olds then, do you? And if they did, why would Montana want a poster of someone else’s kid? So, bad enough with Brady but even worse with Rodgers, he hadn’t even been born yet.

  157. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    November 1, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    Huh? How did Brady have a better offense? Edelman was still recovering from a broken foot and Gronk missed significant time that year as well. Not to mention Ghost missed a crucial extra point. Compare that to D. Thomas, Decker, Sanders, CJ Andersen, etc. Broncos offense was better than the Pats and the defense was light years ahead of the Pats. Hence how Manning was able to have a 56 QB rating in the SB and the Broncos still won.

    ———

    If Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola played, the Patriots were a better offense. The Patriots offense was why the Patriots were favored going into that game. If you argue they were not 100% then neither was Manning coming off Plantiar Fasciatis.

    ================================================

    Your wildly overrating Amendola. He was the Pats equivalent of Robert Horry. Came up big in some big games, but not nearly a top player at his position during any point in his career. And his best season was with the Rams. He got hurt a lot. There’s a reason the Pats had all but officially signed Emmanuel Sanders in ’14 before he went to the Broncos. Amendola hadn’t lived up to his contract in his first year and was constantly being restructured, so they went after Sanders for more WR help. Pats fans love him and he deserves all the accolades he gets, but he’s not heading to Canton any time soon, or even a Pro Bowl.

  158. If you weren’t a fake patriots fan maybe the post would make sense. The Broncos offense going into that game was far better then the injury-plagued patriots. Its not an excuse, they still could have won, but its the truth. Pats were also missing Dion Lewis to an ACL tear.

    Peyton didn’t matter at all the entire season. He was a joke. Hence why one of the worst back-ups in football game in and won 6-7 games when Manning was down. Also why Manning carried a 56 QB rating in the SB and they still won. Manning was a stand-in during the season. With that defense, they would have beat the Pats even if Osweiler started the AFC championship game as they did earlier in the year.

    ——–

    Osweiler beat a Patriots team in overtime without Edelman and Gronk injured in the 4th quarter. Wide receivers were LaFell and Martin. The team Manning faced in the AFCC game had Gronk, Edelman, and Danny Playoffs and he still managed to outplay Brady by scoring twice as many TDs. So if you say Manning was a joke, what does that make Brady who was outplayed by that joke?

  159. Chill_Donahue says:
    November 2, 2018 at 11:29 am
    patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    November 1, 2018 at 5:50 pm

    Huh? How did Brady have a better offense? Edelman was still recovering from a broken foot and Gronk missed significant time that year as well. Not to mention Ghost missed a crucial extra point. Compare that to D. Thomas, Decker, Sanders, CJ Andersen, etc. Broncos offense was better than the Pats and the defense was light years ahead of the Pats. Hence how Manning was able to have a 56 QB rating in the SB and the Broncos still won.

    ———

    If Gronk, Edelman, and Amendola played, the Patriots were a better offense. The Patriots offense was why the Patriots were favored going into that game. If you argue they were not 100% then neither was Manning coming off Plantiar Fasciatis.

    ================================================

    Your wildly overrating Amendola. He was the Pats equivalent of Robert Horry. Came up big in some big games, but not nearly a top player at his position during any point in his career. And his best season was with the Rams. He got hurt a lot. There’s a reason the Pats had all but officially signed Emmanuel Sanders in ’14 before he went to the Broncos. Amendola hadn’t lived up to his contract in his first year and was constantly being restructured, so they went after Sanders for more WR help. Pats fans love him and he deserves all the accolades he gets, but he’s not heading to Canton any time soon, or even a Pro Bowl.

    ————-

    I like the comparison to Big Shot Rob. That’s true.

  160. usdcoyotesfan says:
    November 3, 2018 at 4:01 am
    Exactly the humble response I expected from Rodgers.
    ——————————
    Aaron Rodgers, humble? Does he have a twin brother, perhaps named Aron? Seems to me I once heard him say he had a chip on his shoulder because he wasn’t picked first overall in his draft class. Does that sound humble to you? It sounds humbull to me. All it means is he’s learned not to spout unmitigated arrogance to the media. Self-confidence is one thing, arrogance is something else entirely.

  161. Montana but Rodgers’ accomplishments in wins (what matters) match…

    Brad Johnson
    Jeff Hostetler
    Trent Dilfer
    Doug Williams
    Mark Rypien
    and Nick Foles
    ——
    I get that logic but ever notice how those guys can win 1 Super Bowl but never more than that? Funny how that works

    I suspect that’s the point.

    Wake me when Aaron wins #2

    Heck, wake me when he GOES TO #2
    ————————————————
    Wake ME when those scrubs win 2 MVPs.

  162. Fran Tarkenton is the Smartest QB ever and then Goat!!! Also Bud Grant was the Best Head Coach EVER!

  163. Actually Erin Rogers, his five against your one puts him so far ahead of you that it is not funny. There are 12 QB’s with multiple SB wins so the best that Erin could ever be is a 13th place QB and then we’d have to start looking at playoff wins and losses and then go to season wins and losses and then look at stats. We cannot with confidence take Erin’s stats as a standard since he cheats by using taunting cadence to draw defenders offsides so he can get free plays that he cannot earn like other QB’s. I’d say the fact that his stats are so padded with free plays that he should not even be considered a top 20 all time QB.

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