Tom Brady has rewritten the postseason record book, and no one is close

Getty Images

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has so thoroughly rewritten the postseason record book that there’s not even a close second on all the major records he owns.

Here are a few of the career postseason records that Brady owns, along with the player in second place.

Games played: Brady has played in 38 postseason games. Adam Viantieri is next with 32 playoff games.

Games started: Brady has started all 38 of his postseason games. Jerry Rice is next with 29 starts.

Games as winning quarterback: Brady has won 28 postseason games. Joe Montana is next with 16.

Passes thrown: Brady has thrown 1,508 passes in the postseason. Peyton Manning is next with 1,027.

Passes completed: Brady has completed 954 passes in the postseason. Peyton Manning is next with 649.

Passing yards: Brady has thrown for 10,569 yards in the postseason. Peyton Manning is next with 7,339.

Passing touchdowns: Brady has thrown 72 touchdown passes in the postseason. Joe Montana is next with 45.

Brady will attempt to add to all of those records on Sunday, and earn a trip to his NFL-record ninth Super Bowl.

188 responses to “Tom Brady has rewritten the postseason record book, and no one is close

  1. Yet, some haters will spew out some nonsensical drivel smh. Just appreciate greatness and how good the Pats have been the past 19 or so years.

  2. Especially if you play forever at the highest level week after week, month after month, playoff season after playoff season.

  3. Bart Starr is 5-0 in NFL Championships/Super Bowls with MVPs too. Props to him. Other than that remarkable record, it is all Brady by a wide margin. He just wins.

  4. thesilentshoplifter says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:27 am
    If you play forever, records will be broken.

    These are playoff records… These dont come by just showing up in the regular season.

  5. Patriots fan here but all of theses records simply boil down to a starting QB who has played 38 post season games. Passing yards over Manning is just due to 12 more career playoff starts. Having said that, playing in 38 post season games will likely never be accomplished again.

  6. If you play forever, records will be broken.

    ___

    You make it sound like a bad thing, playing forever. You think Montana or Manning wanted to retire? No, they retired because they couldn’t play well anymore or injury forced them out. How about Rice? He played forever, you knock his records too?

  7. Super Bowl Rings (as a player only. No owners, coaches, executives, chaplains)

    Tom Brady 5
    Charles Haley 5

    there is actually a slew of players with 4 rings. Including 22) Steelers from the days of the Steel Curtain and 6) 49ers from the 80’s.

  8. I hope all these complimentary PFT articles about Brady remind NFL fans just how special he’s been and we appreciate that we’ve been able to witness it. But I’m afraid any more articles like this are gonna put the jinx on him.

  9. All those younguns who are just now watching Brady as I watched many of the greats, Starr, Unitas etc near the end of their careers, watch closely so you can tell your grandkids that you witnessed both Greatness and, sadly, jealousy. I know records are made to be broken but someone is going to have to not only play for a stupid long time, but make the playoffs nearly every year. Had Brady not been quite so good in the regular season and had to play wild card games he might have even more insane stats.

  10. Most records in the NFL are meaningless because it is easier to move the ball than ever before. These show how much the Pats have won in the last 20 years and in the end that is why you play the game.

  11. kevin25252525 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:41 am
    Patriots fan here but all of theses records simply boil down to a starting QB who has played 38 post season games. Passing yards over Manning is just due to 12 more career playoff starts…
    —————————–
    Yes but you have to be good enough to reach the playoffs that many times! And then win most of the ones you play in to get to 38. And as to Peyton and Montana – they played in divisions which at the time were much softer than the current AFCE, and as you know Brady’s record against the rest of the league is about the same .750 ratio as in the AFCE. You basically have to add two other “goats” records such as Montana and Peyton or Bradshaw etc to match Brady – and even then, Brady’s postseason W-L ratio is still much higher.

  12. Greatest QB of all time without a doubt. That is the reason he’s been in so many post season games giving him the opportunity to play big on the biggest stage. Not only does he get there, but he excels once there.

  13. streetyson says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:51 am
    kevin25252525 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:41 am
    Patriots fan here but all of theses records simply boil down to a starting QB who has played 38 post season games. Passing yards over Manning is just due to 12 more career playoff starts…
    —————————–
    Yes but you have to be good enough to reach the playoffs that many times! And then win most of the ones you play in to get to 38. And as to Peyton and Montana – they played in divisions which at the time were much softer than the current AFCE, and as you know Brady’s record against the rest of the league is about the same .750 ratio as in the AFCE. You basically have to add two other “goats” records such as Montana and Peyton or Bradshaw etc to match Brady – and even then, Brady’s postseason W-L ratio is still much higher.

    Right. The point of my comment is that the article states he is rewritng the record books and lists 7 statistics as proof. When in fact the only real record in the list is games played. The rest just naturally follow from games played. My comment was not meant negatively towards Brady but rather at a lazy and poorly thought out article.

  14. Unbelievable that some people look at this and still refuse to acknowledge what an all-time great player Tom Brady is – certainly the greatest ever in my book.

  15. Good Lord, those are some gaudy numbers. Regardless of era, situation, rules, etc, I don’t know how you could possibly debate his GOAT status. Unless your judgement is clouded by your intense dislike for him.

  16. Always loved Bart Starr but,

    “gb15class says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:37 am
    Bart Starr is 5-0 in NFL Championships/Super Bowls with MVPs too. Props to him…”

    Bart was not 5-0. He (The Packers) lost in the championship game to Philadelphia in 1960.

  17. Also arguably of interest is that no other NFL QB has started more than 27 playoff games (starting 27 playoff games is impressive in itself). Tom Brady has been the winning starting QB in 28 of his 38 playoff games started.

  18. Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC west.

  19. Let’s look at the playoff records of Brady and his contemporaries. Any questions?

    Tom Brady: 28-10, .738 winning percentage

    Big Ben: 13-8, .619
    Drew Brees: 8-6, .571
    Aaron Rodgers: 9-7, .563
    Peyton Manning: 14-13, .519
    Philip Rivers: 5-6, .455

  20. daysend564 says:

    January 17, 2019 at 11:30 am

    If you are a QB that plays for 20 years and get to play the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, you get a guaranteed 20 playoff games.

    ============================

    Not really, Brady’s winning pct in and out of division is almost identical. And that’s WITH the weighted strength of opponent skewing towards the out of division games as the Pats have played almost exclusively a first place schedule during the BB/TB era.

    Brady’s winning pct:

    vs. NFL: .770

    vs. AFC: .771

    vs. NFC: .765

    vs. AFC East: .794

    If the AFC East really helped them that much, it would show up here. It doesn’t.

    And Patriots are the only team of this era to have a winning record against other playoff teams.

    And the Patriots are the only team of this era with a winning record against other playoff teams.

  21. Starr was 9-1 in playoff games in total, as noted, the 1960 championship game being the only loss. Starr was up there, but can’t really compare the 1960’s to the 2000’s and 2010’s.

  22. Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC west.
    ——
    Unfortunately Brady’s record against those other divisions says differently. You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.

  23. Bart Starr is 5-0 in NFL Championships/Super Bowls with MVPs too.
    =====

    5-1, he lost his first.. but then never lost again (.900 win%)

    5 Titles
    3-peat
    AND the highest rated post-season QB ever

  24. TruthfulDolphinsFanNotWearingBlinders says:

    January 17, 2019 at 11:55 am

    Greatest system QB of all time, no doubt!

    ============================================

    Too bad Belichick is only 18-19 as Pats coach without Brady starting. Some system.

  25. People talk about Brady and Pats playing in one of the worst divisions in NFL but conveniently forget that Peyton Manning played most of his career in AFC South, which was as bad as AFC East or probably worst. The Jets made to 2 AFCCG, don’t remember any team from Peyton Manning’s division making past divisional round after 2001.

  26. Also arguably of interest is that no other NFL QB has started more than 27 playoff games (starting 27 playoff games is impressive in itself). Tom Brady has been the winning starting QB in 28 of his 38 playoff games started.

    Peyton Manning is 14-13 in the playoffs, which is 27.

  27. As a GB shareholder and fan, Aaron Rodgers couldn’t even carry Brady’s jockstrap. Year after year, Brady has shown beyond any doubt in any manner whatsoever that he’s the best. GB fans cry that Rodgers has not had the elite receivers. Neither has Brady. As Joey Bosa said yesterday, Brady gets the ball out FAST. Rodgers, not so much.

    I’d trade Rodgers for Brady in a heartbeat, even with Brady turning 41.

  28. daysend564 says:

    January 17, 2019 at 11:30 am

    If you are a QB that plays for 20 years and get to play the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, you get a guaranteed 20 playoff games.

    ___________________________

    This statement is so old and lame. The Patriots have had a difficult time with all 3 of these teams. They prepare better than anyone, they find the strength of each player and do the best they can with what they have. Oh, and they also have the G.O.A.T quarterback and head coach, been to 8 Super Bowls (so far), won 5 rings (so far)…should I keep going? You will probably never see this again.

  29. East: 77-21 (.785)
    North: 31-7 (.816)
    South: 39-7 (.848)
    West: 27-15 (.643)

    You have any other incorrect info you wanna share with the world?
    ___________________________

    nite2al says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm
    Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC west.

  30. Brady’s longevity would not have been possible outside the Patriots system. The Patriots have had arguably the best offensive line coach in the league’s history, Dante Scarnecchia for most of Brady’s career. Even now, the Patriots run game is working mainly because the offensive line is playing awesome which takes pressure off Brady.

  31. 8oneanddones says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:09 pm
    Let’s look at the playoff records of Brady and his contemporaries. Any questions?

    Tom Brady: 28-10, .738 winning percentage

    Big Ben: 13-8, .619
    Drew Brees: 8-6, .571
    Aaron Rodgers: 9-7, .563
    Peyton Manning: 14-13, .519
    Philip Rivers: 5-6, .455
    ——————————————-
    What about Joe Flacco – you know – the guy who isn’t ELITE – his playoff record is 10-5 which is .667 – guess you only included ELITE QB’s 🙂

  32. At this point I doubt the credentials of any so-called football fan who still refuses to appreciate how incredible he has been, and what a high level of quality football he has given us for two decades now. Like I am not a Browns fan, but I think the world of Otto Graham and respect everything he achieved. These are the players that tie the sport together across generations, and ultimately you’re only hurting yourself if you deny it.

  33. Too often, we people we get it in our heads that we must dislike a team or player. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that but that doesn’t mean we have to be blind when we see a team or player that is just head over the rest. As a Steelers fan, I can appreciate all the butt whooping we got from the Patriot, and some were exactly that, but whooping. Watching the Patriots Charger game this past weekend and I was just glad that wasn’t my team.

    Without Elite receivers or running game, Brady has been without a shadow of doubt the most consistent and best QB in the NFL the past 20 years. If you watch football and you don’t believe that, then stop watching football.

  34. some people look at this and still refuse to acknowledge

    The people that matter acknowledge. Ben, Aaron, Troy, Terry, Phil, Boomer, Tony, on and on and on….

  35. At this point I doubt the credentials of any so-called football fan who still refuses to appreciate how incredible he has been, and what a high level of quality football he has given us for two decades now. Like I am not a Browns fan, but I think the world of Otto Graham and respect everything he achieved. These are the players that tie the sport together across generations, and ultimately you’re only hurting yourself if you deny it.
    =====

    I have no problem with people believing Tom Brady is the second coming, goat, or whatever title you care to give him.

    I have a BIG problem with people that think I should share that opinion.

  36. Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC west.
    ————–
    Brady’s record against the vaunted AFC North is about the same as his against the AFC East. This is especially impressive given that he has to play teams 1-4 in the AFC North but only teams 2-4 in the AFC East (in terms of difficulty).

    Your argument holds no water!

    Lifetime including playoffs Brady is 11-3 against Pitt and 8-4 against Balt. 6-1 against the Cincy and Cleveland. That’s 31-9 or over 75%! And it’s weighted toward the “good” teams ie Pitt and Balt.

  37. I get the feeling that this running game that the Patriots have discovered will be Brady’s “Terrell Davis”.

    Watch.

    🙂

  38. If Joe Montana played in that many playoff games he would easily have 10 Lombardi’s.

    He would have 6 if Beliichick’s defenses didn’t knock him out the championship games.

  39. Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0

    ….regression to the mean….

    Consider the number of Romo games post season v the number of Brady games, post season.

  40. The best 6th round draft pick in the history of sports. Any sport. This man is just a stud. I’ve been watching football since the 60,s and have never seen anything like him. Love him or hate him you must respect his body of work.

  41. itjustdoesntmatterpeople says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:04 pm
    I’m a huge Tom Brady fan, but it should be noted that the Wild Card round didn’t get added until 1978, so there were a lot less games played and a lot less teams playing them.
    ————————————————-
    So if we compare Brady to the Wild Card era..it is still Brady. By a ton. Keep in mind that Brady has only played in the Wild Card round twice. TWICE. Out of 18 years and 16 playoff appearances, he has only played in the Wild Card round TWICE.

  42. I have no problem with people believing Tom Brady is the second coming, goat, or whatever title you care to give him.

    I have a BIG problem with people that think I should share that opinion.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but its tough to take you seriously when you try to compare Tony Romo’s rating after playing in 6 playoff games to a guy that has played in 38. Romo never threw 300+ yards or had more than 2 TDs in any game he played. Let’s use some perspective here. Kurt Warner and Matt Ryan have higher playoff QB ratings then Rodgers. It means absolutely nothing.

    On the bright side, things are looking up for the Packers! They hired a coach that has proven he can win and Rodgers and the team are coming off an excellent season.

  43. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
    At this point I doubt the credentials of any so-called football fan who still refuses to appreciate how incredible he has been, and what a high level of quality football he has given us for two decades now. Like I am not a Browns fan, but I think the world of Otto Graham and respect everything he achieved. These are the players that tie the sport together across generations, and ultimately you’re only hurting yourself if you deny it.
    =====
    I have no problem with people believing Tom Brady is the second coming, goat, or whatever title you care to give him.
    I have a BIG problem with people that think I should share that opinion.
    =====================================================================================
    Which is understandable, but reducing him to a compiler is just silly, for a guy who has spent 15 seasons in the Top 10 for passing yards, TD’s, and rating, his integral contributions in late-game wins and comebacks, his consistency at a high level. If you’re calling him a compiler, then Bart Starr was one in the regular season as well. And Brady got his team to the playoffs 16 times, compared to Starr’s 6. Granted, different eras and all, but after age 34, Starr just wasn’t very good. Doesn’t hurt to have 11 HOF’s on your team either, especially when 3 are blocking for you and 2 are carrying the ball. Bart Starr was a great QB for his era. Tom Brady clearly is for his era.

  44. Tom Brady has rewritten the postseason record book, and no one is close. **

    There fixed it for you.

  45. When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.

  46. davew128 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:25 pm

    “So if we compare Brady to the Wild Card era..it is still Brady. By a ton. Keep in mind that Brady has only played in the Wild Card round twice.”

    You missed the point. Less teams made the playoffs back then. So those quarterbacks didn’t have as many chances to amass the stats.

  47. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm
    At this point I doubt the credentials of any so-called football fan who still refuses to appreciate how incredible he has been, and what a high level of quality football he has given us for two decades now. Like I am not a Browns fan, but I think the world of Otto Graham and respect everything he achieved. These are the players that tie the sport together across generations, and ultimately you’re only hurting yourself if you deny it.
    =====

    I have no problem with people believing Tom Brady is the second coming, goat, or whatever title you care to give him.

    I have a BIG problem with people that think I should share that opinion.

    ————-

    Anyone can have whatever opinion they want. Brady’s records are not a matter of opinion. People can think he came by them through luck, or through being a system QB on a great defensive team or whatever, but he has them. That’s what ends up being remembered long after players retire. It’s why people are talking about Bart Starr and Otto Graham here.

  48. When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Got it. So I guess we can take away all the Steeler SBs from the 70s since they were admittedly cheating with steroids? How about the 2 since then given the Steelers have now been caught twice playing with under-inflated footballs and had a coach try to trip a player during a live game? Tainted – its not even in question

  49. theprocess12 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:12 pm
    People talk about Brady and Pats playing in one of the worst divisions in NFL but conveniently forget that Peyton Manning played most of his career in AFC South, which was as bad as AFC East or probably worst. The Jets made to 2 AFCCG, don’t remember any team from Peyton Manning’s division making past divisional round after 2001.

    ————–

    Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the reason their divisions were/are bad. Not the other way around.

  50. aarons444 says:

    January 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0

    ==================================

    Nick Foles was #1 before last weekend… When you go deeper into the playoffs, the teams get better. Only way get to those games is to win. Which Brady and the Pats have.

  51. steelerfanjo says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm
    When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game
    ——

    Pittsburgh Steelers hall of fame QB admitted on a national radio show that he and his entire team were users of illegal performance enhancing drugs when they won titles, tainting every one of them due to cheating. Now resume your crying. Waaah! 😭😭😭😭

  52. I go to the store and buy a lottery ticket for 8 weeks in a row .On the first three I win the top prize .On the next two I win the second prize .In the next two weeks I win the top prize and on the eight I win the second prize .Total win 5 fist place 3 second place .Now my buddy only buys tickets for 4 straight weeks and wins the top prize each week .After week 4 he stops and never looks back . I ask why did you stop and he tells me I didn’t want to ruin my streak and I say to him that’s pretty funny because my 3 second place prizes were enough to send my kids and their kids to college plus a nice retirement for me .I then ask are you willing to risk your streak at 4 because the prize is the largest in history he replied no 4 is enough .Ted Williams had the chance to sit and be sure that is 400 plus batting percentage but he wanted to hit because that is what major league player do. So even though Joe Montana can’t bring his self to say Brady is better no one ever ask if you could would you have wanted to play in more than 4.

  53. Brady is GOAT. Not just for the stats and wins for the fact he played this long at a top level and isn’t done yet.

    How come Montana couldn’t do it?
    🙂

  54. blessedunliketherest says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:40 pm
    When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.
    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Got it. So I guess we can take away all the Steeler SBs from the 70s since they were admittedly cheating with steroids? How about the 2 since then given the Steelers have now been caught twice playing with under-inflated footballs and had a coach try to trip a player during a live game? Tainted – its not even in question

    ——
    Exactly and lets also not forget that Dr Rydze was on their payroll for all these years.

    Steeler apologists honestly should be quiet as puny little mice on this subject. Shhhhh…. 🙂

  55. itjustdoesntmatterpeople says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm
    davew128 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:25 pm

    “So if we compare Brady to the Wild Card era..it is still Brady. By a ton. Keep in mind that Brady has only played in the Wild Card round twice.”

    You missed the point. Less teams made the playoffs back then. So those quarterbacks didn’t have as many chances to amass the stats.

    —————–

    No… I think that point is valid. Brady has been 1st or 2nd seed most of the time. So comparing era’s so Brady amassed the stats not by sneaking in with more teams in the playoffs but by being the best team. You could argue that he may have amassed more stats if he had made a few more runs from the WC spot like guys like Eli, Flacco and Sanchez have done.

    I think it’s a better point that it would have been way more difficult if the divisions were not realigned. Peyton and Brady in the same division for their whole careers would have halved all their stats possibly.

  56. steelerfanjo says:

    January 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm

    When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.

    =======================================

    If the Steelers being caught with low PSI TWICE didn’t bother you(and it doesn’t bother me)its hard to take your argument seriously. Wonder what the PSI’s will be at during the 10 degree weather at Arrowhead this weekend?

    The NFL prefers that we not know.

  57. mshoffman2013 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:17 pm
    All built on one of the worst written rules in the history of sports even though the call was technically right. Yes, I’m a bitter Raiders fan…
    ——
    Fixed it for you. 🙂

  58. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm

    Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0
    ———————–

    Thanks for proving that stats are completely meaningless.

  59. And Brady missed the 2008 season. Think about that. The Patriots went 11-5 with Matt Cassel and still somehow missed the playoffs. Brady would’ve likely gotten them at least one extra win and he would’ve added to his postseason totals.

  60. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm
    Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0

    ——

    Bad post. Cmon man you’re way better than that.

  61. Brady is GOAT. Not just for the stats and wins for the fact he played this long at a top level and isn’t done yet.

    How come Montana couldn’t do it?
    ======

    Interesting question.

    With a loss Sunday, Brady will have gone 4-4 in this run of Championship games.

    Why didn’t he go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls???…..

  62. He’s been fortunate to be on the Belichick Patriots. Imagine his numbers if he ended up on the Jets or Lions…

  63. What a shock. The only QB to play 17 years for the greatest coach of our generation and the only QB to play 14 seasons with a top 10 defense also owns all of the records.

  64. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:05 pm
    Brady is GOAT. Not just for the stats and wins for the fact he played this long at a top level and isn’t done yet.

    How come Montana couldn’t do it?
    ======

    Interesting question.

    With a loss Sunday, Brady will have gone 4-4 in this run of Championship games.
    ——

    Isn’t it funny how non Pats fans accuse Patriots fans of crediting the QB for wins and yet they’re too happy to credit the QB for losses. I wonder why? 🙂

    I was actually talking about Montana’s longetivity. Brady at age 39 won a Super Bowl. Montana was out of football at that age, as Steve Bono took over. Brady lasting so long being at or near the top of the game and on the verge of playing his 4th Super Bowl in 5 years puts him way over the top here.

  65. If the Patriots played in any division the othe other teams would become the equivalent of the the Dolphins, Jets and Bills. For those of you that keep rolling that one out let’s be honest and not Kidd around, the Patriots don’t seem to struggle to much vs everybody else. And that will continue at the weekend. Good luck to the Chiefs I hope and pray they win but the Patriots will just be to smart.

  66. Why is Tom Brady still seen as the face of the league at age 41? Why is it news what other players say to him and hear from him? Why is he seen as the measuring stick for QBs today. Why are the Patriots seen as a plausible winner on Sunday with a 41 year old QB?

    I’ll tell ya why. Begins with G and rhymes with moat. 🙂

  67. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:05 pm
    Brady is GOAT. Not just for the stats and wins for the fact he played this long at a top level and isn’t done yet.
    How come Montana couldn’t do it?
    ======
    Interesting question.
    With a loss Sunday, Brady will have gone 4-4 in this run of Championship games.
    Why didn’t he go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls???…..
    =========================================================================================
    What’s your point? Why didn’t any SB winning QB not go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls?

    People always need to continuously raise the bar when they don’t like a player.

    I’m not even a Brady fan. But your points are specious, at best.

  68. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:12 pm
    TruthfulDolphinsFanNotWearingBlinders says:

    January 17, 2019 at 11:55 am

    Greatest system QB of all time, no doubt!

    ============================================

    Too bad Belichick is only 18-19 as Pats coach without Brady starting. Some system.

    —-
    Not really sure who I am replying to, but here goes:

    2008 – no Brady – 11–5
    2018 – Brady – 11-5

    So, to prove that Belichick is good or not he was supposed to trade Brady or let Brady become a F.A. and then whomever took over for QB full time and multi season would be a test of whether BB was good or bad?

    The NFL is a business. In a business you don’t purposely try to ruin things so you can rebuild it to prove you are the man. Unless you extremely stupid.

    I’m sure BB + TB sometimes do wonder what football life would have been without the other. I’m sure they also realize that together they are better than separate. Even if sometimes they are tired of each other.

  69. Brady also won 10 straight playoff games. That has to be some sort of record, at least for the super bowl era. I doubt we’ll see that again in most of our lifetimes.

  70. Best that can be said of Brady (or any athlete) is that he’s the greatest of his era. If he played in Montana’s day or earlier his career would be over years ago with a 3-2 record in Super Bowls. We already knew he was the most accomplished QB in history but he also plays in the easiest era for a QB. These inflated stats include Brady’s record for most interceptions in history too.

  71. 49ersfury says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:17 pm
    If Joe Montana played in that many playoff games he would easily have 10 Lombardi’s.

    He would have 6 if Beliichick’s defenses didn’t knock him out the championship games.

    —————

    Joe played in 11 playoffs. He made it to (and won) 4 Super Bowls.

    That era was where the NFC won 15 of 16 Super Bowls and the AFC team was basically a tomato can. If he made the Super Bowl, he was likely going to win it.

    He had his chance to win 10 Super Bowls but he lost 7 times instead.

  72. factschecker says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:46 am
    Super Bowl Rings (as a player only. No owners, coaches, executives, chaplains)

    Tom Brady 5
    Charles Haley 5

    * Haley was insane, on and off the field

  73. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:05 pm
    Brady is GOAT. Not just for the stats and wins for the fact he played this long at a top level and isn’t done yet.

    How come Montana couldn’t do it?
    ======

    Interesting question.

    With a loss Sunday, Brady will have gone 4-4 in this run of Championship games.

    Why didn’t he go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls???…..

    —————

    He really could have. 2006 particularly. Huge lead blown in Indy. 2015 was a legit chance too, and I think he blew it with the int to Miller.

    That said, he played horribly in 2007 and won and last year he got in with a great comeback, so it balances out.

  74. fritz96 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:30 pm
    Best that can be said of Brady (or any athlete) is that he’s the greatest of his era. If he played in Montana’s day or earlier his career would be over years ago with a 3-2 record in Super Bowls. We already knew he was the most accomplished QB in history but he also plays in the easiest era for a QB. These inflated stats include Brady’s record for most interceptions in history too.
    ———————

    The easiest era for quarterbacks was likely the era before the forward pass.

  75. 8oneanddones says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:26 pm
    Brady also won 10 straight playoff games. That has to be some sort of record, at least for the super bowl era. I doubt we’ll see that again in most of our lifetimes.

    ————–

    10-0 was something… His playoff record garnered a lot of attention at the time.

    Of course he missed the playoffs in 2002 which makes an undefeated record kind of dumb.

    I still think it would be interesting to look at an adjusted QB playoff record and see where players stand. Count every missed playoff as one loss. Count every bye achieved as one win and just compare that to see how it looks. Guys like Flacco wouldn’t look like they had such good playoff records despite missing the playoffs most years and great QBs wouldn’t have worse records for earning byes.

  76. What’s your point? Why didn’t any SB winning QB not go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls?

    People always need to continuously raise the bar when they don’t like a player.
    =====

    The argument always leveled against Montana, especially be this lot; why did he only get to 4 Super Bowls?

    (the answer of course is; Gibbs, Parcells/Belichick, the Monsters of the Midway, and their 7 trips during Montana’s career)

    Shouldn’t the same standard be applied to Brady? Is that not a fair question? Why has he left Super Bowl trips on the table? Or are the rules being made to fit an agenda?…

    (although.. perhaps it isn’t a fair comparison.. because Brady isn’t playing all-time great competition as Montana was)

  77. fritz96 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm
    What a shock. The only QB to play 17 years for the greatest coach of our generation and the only QB to play 14 seasons with a top 10 defense also owns all of the records

    Manning went one and done 9 times.
    All of them he had a top 2 offense and 5 of those he had a top 10 defense

    Next excuse

  78. It still amazes me the length people will go to try and discredit this guy.

    I’ll ask again. How can all these current and former PLAYERS and COACHES all be wrong when they call him the greatest of all time?

    What do they know ?

  79. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm
    Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0

    ————-
    I guess that tells us how useless QBR is as a statistic

  80. davew128 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:25 pm

    “So if we compare Brady to the Wild Card era..it is still Brady. By a ton. Keep in mind that Brady has only played in the Wild Card round twice.”

    You missed the point. Less teams made the playoffs back then. So those quarterbacks didn’t have as many chances to amass the stats.
    ————————————-
    No you missed MY point. In the current era, if you exclude the years the Patriots played in the Wild Card round at all (as division champions no less) then he STILL played 32 games. At no point has Brady ever played in the playoffs as a member of a Wild Card entry. Now its hard to compare to old school with 3 divisions and 1 wild card, but even comparing starting with the expansion in 1989 to 3 division winners and 3 wild cards, its still unprecedented.

  81. steelerfanjo says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm
    When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.

    This reminds me of Thanksgiving dinner when the adults are having a mature conversation and the five year old suddenly interjects with a pre-tantrum whine. His grandmother quietly shoves a mouthful of pumpkin pie into his little mouth and he beams with pride.

  82. Brady had 14 top 10 defenses. Manning had 5 top 10 defenses. Brees 2. Rodgers 1.

    ——————-

    Flash1287 says:

    Manning went one and done 9 times.
    All of them he had a top 2 offense and 5 of those he had a top 10 defense

  83. The easiest era for quarterbacks was likely the era before the forward pass.
    =====

    You’re watching the easiest era for QBs

    At least until the wussify the rules some more.

  84. fritz96 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm
    What a shock. The only QB to play 17 years for the greatest coach of our generation and the only QB to play 14 seasons with a top 10 defense also owns all of the records.

    ———————-

    I think someone else made the point about other QBs also having good defenses, but 100% the reason Brady won as many as he has is because of the team around him also being great, starting with the defense in many of the years. Can’t really argue that.

    As far as the greatest coach, that is with the benefit if hindsight. If not for Brady, would he be the greatest coach? That is not an answerable question.

  85. Most say there is no GOAT, including Brady, Montana, and Manning. Too hard to compare with different teammates, coaches, GMs, owners, rule changes, etc

    —————————

    Flash1287 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:51 pm
    It still amazes me the length people will go to try and discredit this guy.

    I’ll ask again. How can all these current and former PLAYERS and COACHES all be wrong when they call him the greatest of all time?

  86. If he played in the 90s and wasn’t so protected bye the refs and playing in a bad division Then he might be great. He would have been a bench warmer in the 90s because those guys would have broke him in half

  87. I know people don’t want to hear it but none of the arguments about the AFC East being a weak division during Brady’s career actually hold up to the data. Since 2001 the AFC East has the highest winning percentage of any division in the league – having won 52.8% of their games.
    The next highest is the NFC East with 51.5%.

  88. steelerfanjo says:
    January 17, 2019 at 1:34 pm
    When you are allowed to cheat as a team, organization and player and never get suspended for the playoffs, and get every call in the playoffs, and your team is never called for holding in the playoffs… you will set a lot of records. Every Brady record is tainted. TAINTED. 100% -IT’S NOT EVEN IN QUESTION. He is Pete Rose & Tom Donaghy x 100000! One of the worst humans to play the game.

    —————-

    The Steelers have really driven their fans to the lowest depths of despair. It must really hurt that for the last 5 years the Steelers have been good enough to beat the Patriots but couldn’t act like grownups and get along.

  89. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    January 17, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Brady’s longevity would not have been possible outside the Patriots system. The Patriots have had arguably the best offensive line coach in the league’s history, Dante Scarnecchia for most of Brady’s career. Even now, the Patriots run game is working mainly because the offensive line is playing awesome which takes pressure off Brady.

    =============================================

    If Pats offensive line was better, those two Giants Super Bowls and the Broncos AFCCG loss in 2015 would have gone much differently.

    And Belichick/Scarnecchia are only 18-19 coaching the Pats when Brady doesn’t start…some system.

    And for comparison:

    Career sacks/games played

    Brady: sacked 473 times in 269 games

    Peyton Manning: sacked 303 times in 266 games

  90. The thing people keep missing is the the T in GOAT. TIME.
    A lot of players are really, really, really good for a few seasons.
    Brady hasn’t been the best every year. This year for example.
    Though he does seem to be peeking (or everyone else is) now in the playoffs.

    But, he always in the conversation. And he’s still there while only Viantieri is
    someone else who is still there at his position who was there way back when.

    Would you rather have someone in baseball who hit 350 for a couple of seasons and 260 for 16 others or someone who consistently hit 310 every year? I’ll take 310 every year any time even if 310 wasn’t the best average in any of those years. And Brady is better than the 310.

  91. He lost too Eli manning twice how great can he be

    ———-

    In both of those losses Brady walked off the field with the lead. The defense lost it.

  92. I know people don’t want to hear it but none of the arguments about the AFC East being a weak division during Brady’s career actually hold up to the data. Since 2001 the AFC East has the highest winning percentage of any division in the league – having won 52.8% of their games.
    The next highest is the NFC East with 51.5%
    =====

    The Dolphins and Bills haven’t won a Playoff Game since the Clinton Adminstration.. they have 3 Playoff trips between them since Brady became a starter.

    The Jets have 6 Playoff trips in that span.. but haven’t won a Playoff game in almost a decade.

    AFC LEast

  93. smoothrobinva says:
    January 17, 2019 at 3:12 pm
    He lost too Eli manning twice how great can he be

    —————-

    If this were 2012 that would bug me, but winning two more and Eli’s complete lack of success since then cured some of that pain.

  94. fritz96 says:

    January 17, 2019 at 2:17 pm

    What a shock. The only QB to play 17 years for the greatest coach of our generation and the only QB to play 14 seasons with a top 10 defense also owns all of the records.

    ================

    Uh, no…. Brady era Pats have had some good defenses, many kinda-good-to-just-ok defenses and a few truly bad ones (ie last year). Check the defense DVOA for just their Super Bowl years to see:

    Pats defense DVOA in SB appearance years:

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

  95. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 2:48 pm
    What’s your point? Why didn’t any SB winning QB not go to 2 or 3 more Super Bowls?
    People always need to continuously raise the bar when they don’t like a player.
    =====
    The argument always leveled against Montana, especially be this lot; why did he only get to 4 Super Bowls?
    (the answer of course is; Gibbs, Parcells/Belichick, the Monsters of the Midway, and their 7 trips during Montana’s career)
    Shouldn’t the same standard be applied to Brady? Is that not a fair question? Why has he left Super Bowl trips on the table? Or are the rules being made to fit an agenda?…
    (although.. perhaps it isn’t a fair comparison.. because Brady isn’t playing all-time great competition as Montana was)
    ==========================================================================================================================
    No. It’s a stupid question for any QB. As stupid as trying to compare competition across eras. There’s no telling what Brady and the Pats would do or not do against the Giants of that era. There is zero way to prove it out and any attempts are merely opinions or conjecture. Size and speed are different today, just as it will probably be in 10 years. Montana was throwing to possibly the greatest WR ever, for instance. There’s no way to account for all of the variables, and the only way to get close would be for Brady to play with the same players that Montana played with in the same time period. Which of course is impossible. So the only value to these arguments are for entertainment purposes, because despite every stat and every argument you want to throw out there, there is no way to prove anything out in even a reasonable fashion unless the disparity between players is fairly substantial.

  96. No. It’s a stupid question for any QB. As stupid as trying to compare competition across eras.
    ======

    Reading isn’t your strong suit, is it?

    I didn’t compare eras.

    Why is it Montana is criticized for missing Super Bowls, while Brady is not? He went to 8.. he may be 4-4 in Title games the last 8 years. Same critique leveled all the time against Joe Cool.

    Try to keep up….

  97. I understand why former teammates ,head coaches/managers , and their respective fan base are reluctant to credit a dynasty .Heck I grew up hating the Yankees and the Canadians .Just for laughs see if Tony Dungy ,ex Rams ,steelers,colts management, raiders , and any other team the Pats beat
    ever acknowledge the greatness of Brady and Belichick.The funniest is Don Shula and he is just defending faded glory .My favorite of all time is Jerry West some 40 years later can’t get over the fact that he could never beat the Celtics .It took Magic Johnson and his crew to finally push through and even now the Lakers are still one behind .

  98. The argument always leveled against Montana, especially be this lot; why did he only get to 4 Super Bowls?
    (the answer of course is; Gibbs, Parcells/Belichick, the Monsters of the Midway, and their 7 trips during Montana’s career)
    Shouldn’t the same standard be applied to Brady? Is that not a fair question? Why has he left Super Bowl trips on the table? Or are the rules being made to fit an agenda?…
    (although.. perhaps it isn’t a fair comparison.. because Brady isn’t playing all-time great competition as Montana was)

    —-
    That’s not my argument although it’s fair to question why he only made it to 4 Super Bowls especially if people are questioning Brady for being 5/8 in Super Bowls. Or why Montana failed to make a Super Bowl when he didn’t have a top 8 scoring defense.

    Like I said above Brady is on top of this argument because he’s been better- for much longer.

  99. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:20 pm
    Tom Bradys post-season QB rating – 91.4

    Tony Romos post-season QB rating – 93.0
    —————————————
    Romo’s QB rating is overstated. He should lose 10 points at least for muffing the snap on the FG try against Seattle. Seriously, to compare Romo’s playoff record to Brady’s playoff record is a joke. Give me Joe (elite) Flacco’s playoff record over Romo’s any day

  100. The stats don’t lie, he has some records that may never be broken, certainly as long as there is a salary cap. Oddly enough most of the haters who say idiotic things like “system quarterback” the AFC East stuff etc… They are all system QB’s, all teams have a system, some just have the talent to succeed in the system. The AFC East question, fisrt off as others stated the winning percentage of that division is better than those realize but even more telling is that the remaining schedule is partially based around other division winners, not easy at all.

    I am a Pats fan and I truly believe you cant compare different generations, primarily rule changes and such. Having said that…he is the GOAT of this generation, there is no denial of that, and will forever be in the conversation of the best ever.

  101. fritz96 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 3:00 pm
    Brady had 14 top 10 defenses. Manning had 5 top 10 defenses. Brees 2. Rodgers 1.


    Brady did NOT have 14 top 10. Def.
    and by your logic Montana should get ZERO credit
    All 4 of his SB wins his D was overall ranked 4 or better.

  102. daysend564 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:30 am
    If you are a QB that plays for 20 years and get to play the Bills, Jets, and Dolphins, you get a guaranteed 20 playoff games.

    —————————
    And then when you then win 20 playoff games, and win 8 more than that actually, you get a GOAT.

  103. aarons444 says:

    January 17, 2019 at 3:40 pm

    No. It’s a stupid question for any QB. As stupid as trying to compare competition across eras.
    ======

    Reading isn’t your strong suit, is it?

    I didn’t compare eras.

    Why is it Montana is criticized for missing Super Bowls, while Brady is not? He went to 8.. he may be 4-4 in Title games the last 8 years. Same critique leveled all the time against Joe Cool.

    Try to keep up….

    ——————-

    Not making it to conference title games < making it to conference title games… Especially in an era without a salary cap or modern free agency.

  104. TB12…..G.O.A.T.
    It’s really not even open for discussion…… NOBODY comes close…NOBODY

  105. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    I have no problem with people believing Tom Brady is the second coming, goat, or whatever title you care to give him.

    I have a BIG problem with people that think I should share that opinion.

    ——————————
    No, you are right. For just one example (he has too many records to cite them all) It is my opinion that he has more playoff wins than any other qb has appearances, its your opinion he does not. All good and its a free country where you are free to think that. I also think the sky is blue, water is wet, and 2+2=4. But you are 100% entitled to your different opinion.

  106. Not making it to conference title games < making it to conference title games… Especially in an era without a salary cap or modern free agency.
    ======

    No shame in not making Title games when HOFrs and all-time teams are standing in your way.

    As one of your drones said, the NFC WAS the Super Bowl in Montana's era.

    .. and this is not a tougher era to win in. As proved by the Patriots absolute dominance of this sad League.

  107. Brady did NOT have 14 top 10. Def.
    =====

    2001 – 6th
    2003 – 1st
    2004 – 2nd
    2006 – 2nd
    2007 – 4th
    2009 – 5th
    2010 – 8th
    2012 – 9th
    2013 – 10th
    2014 – 8th
    2015 – 10th
    2016 – 1st
    2017 – 5th
    2018 – 7th.. that’s 14 by my count.. out of 17 seasons.

    I’m not sure any QB in NFL history can make that claim.

  108. Its actually been 8 years since a jet playoff win, How can Pats fans forget? They beat the GOAT in NE. Mark Sanchez became the only QB
    in history to have back to back playoff wins vs Peyton and TB in THEIR HOUSE. Pretty incredible.

  109. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 4:17 pm
    Brady did NOT have 14 top 10. Def.
    =====

    2001 – 6th
    2003 – 1st
    2004 – 2nd
    2006 – 2nd
    2007 – 4th
    2009 – 5th
    2010 – 8th
    2012 – 9th
    2013 – 10th
    2014 – 8th
    2015 – 10th
    2016 – 1st
    2017 – 5th
    2018 – 7th.. that’s 14 by my count.. out of 17 seasons.

    I’m not sure any QB in NFL history can make that claim.

    ——
    Montana failed to qualify for a Super Bowl with less than a top 8 scoring defense. Brady has. The end. 🙂

  110. Montana failed to qualify for a Super Bowl with less than a top 8 scoring defense
    ======

    Gibbs.. Parcells.. Belichick.. arguably the best D of all-time..

    … I’ll wait while you sort through the list of trash Brady has lost to.

  111. Pats defense DVOA in SB appearance years:

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

    That’s comes out to … just ok defense overall. Nothing special.

  112. Patriots scoring defenses their Super Bowl years;

    2001 – 6th
    2003 – 1st
    2004 – 2nd
    2007 – 4th
    2011 – 15th
    2014 – 8th
    2016 – 1st
    2017 – 5th

    That’s special.

  113. Chill_Donahue says:
    January 17, 2019 at 3:13 pm
    patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    January 17, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Brady’s longevity would not have been possible outside the Patriots system. The Patriots have had arguably the best offensive line coach in the league’s history, Dante Scarnecchia for most of Brady’s career. Even now, the Patriots run game is working mainly because the offensive line is playing awesome which takes pressure off Brady.

    =============================================

    If Pats offensive line was better, those two Giants Super Bowls and the Broncos AFCCG loss in 2015 would have gone much differently.

    And Belichick/Scarnecchia are only 18-19 coaching the Pats when Brady doesn’t start…some system.

    And for comparison:

    Career sacks/games played

    Brady: sacked 473 times in 269 games

    Peyton Manning: sacked 303 times in 266 games

    ——

    Most QBs would take 473 sacks in 269 games especially if they are pocket passers. That’s 1.76 sacks per game on average. That’s a great offensive line if it gives you those numbers to a pocket passers like Brady. Manning low sack numbers were mostly due his quick release and protection adjustments at the line of scrimmage. There was nothing special about any of Manning’s lines.

    No real Patriots fan would ever diminish the importance of Dante Scarnecchia to the success of the team.

  114. If the AFC East was such an easy ticket then the Pats would always get crushed in the playoffs against ‘better’ divisions. But they don’t, they keep winning. The argument doesnt hold water with manning for example, winning the easy south and then losing in first round many times to actual better teams.

    And I’m not dissing on Manning, yes I hated him as a pure rival to the team I root for, but he was an incredible talent and a heck of a QB….plus I like
    His commercials. 😀

    Comparing eras is tough, so you can only compare how said QB did against his peers and no ones dominated like Brady has. And he has had good competition with Big Ben, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, hell I’ll throw in Wilson cause the dudes clutch

  115. A graphic they put up during the Chargers-Patriots game really drove home how far ahead Brady’s postseason stats are. When Rivers threw a TD pass in the first quarter, it was his 12th, tying the Chargers playoff record with Dan Fouts. Forget for a moment that Brady has 60 more passing TDs, but he’s also thrown for 12 postseason TDs in back to back seasons on 2 different occasions. Maybe Mahomes will be the guy to challenge Brady’s numbers, but it will be the 2030s before he starts getting close.

  116. aarons444 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 5:22 pm
    Patriots scoring defenses their Super Bowl years;

    2001 – 6th
    2003 – 1st
    2004 – 2nd
    2007 – 4th
    2011 – 15th
    2014 – 8th
    2016 – 1st
    2017 – 5th

    That’s special.


    Having watched every second of every Patriots game, I’m here to tell you—it’s not and it wasn’t.

    I love it when someone with a clear agenda who clearly doesn’t watch Patriots games with the regularity that we do tries to hide behind whatever numbers they can pluck to denigrate the Patriots organizational achievement over the years.

    All real Patriots fans know that during this run with Brady, there have been many downright horrid defenses. Belichick and co. have minimized the potential damage there because they never draft high, and favor the model of stockpiling mid to low round picks, plus using a lot of UDFA’s to have depth and train guys to play multiple positions. Belichick has literally picked guys off the street and transitioned offensive guys like Troy Brown and Julian Edelman to play Dback in mid season in desperate years. The “bend don’t break” model was practically invented here. All they ultimately cared about with the lower talent pool was limiting red zone scoring. The only talented, stout 2-3 year defensive unit was in the early 2000’s and while they were very solid, they weren’t an all-time group like the Legion of Boom and the Ravens and Denver of a few years ago. They were opportunistic and were coached to create turnovers and then Brady would make you pay. It’s the very reason you don’t see a ton of All Pros and potential HOF guys from the last 18 year dynasty. There just weren’t that many. The model was to draft low, coach up, and turn it over before the success of the individual implodes you financially. That’s the real genius of the Patriots “system” if you really look at it. At no time did it ever have to do with cheating. That’s the detractors crutch to lean on because it’s more soothing for them to think that vs. what’s real.

    That 2011 Super Bowl team in particular couldn’t stop your grandma. If they won that game it would have been the worst defense of all time to be called a Super Bowl champion, and they came within a play or two of doing it and a useless Gronk on a destroyed ankle as a decoy all night when he was all-Universe that season.

  117. Like who? Greatest Show on Turf was high powered but poorly coached (Dick Vermeil was gone) and the defense won that game. Eagles were very good in the early 2000s but probably a level below great. And Brady only had to score 24 points to win. Panthers were good and Brady played his best Super Bowl scoring over 30 points. Falcons were quite good and Matt Ryan had his best year but they’re weren’t great and played the worst 4th quarter in Super Bowl history. Seahawks had a great roster but was decimated compared to the squad that beat the Broncos the previous year. Sherman with a torn UCL, Chancellor had a torn MCL, Thomas a dislocated shoulder, Lane a broken leg and Avril out with a concussion.

    —————

    Flash1287 says:
    January 17, 2019 at 5:32 pm
    Brady played better teams in the SB

  118. saw montana play at ND and in the league. Brady by far the better qb. Joe was very good surrounded by dominant talent his entire career (no free agency). Niners never missed a beat when they replaced him with steve young. Brady has been driving teams to championships for 18 years playing against the toughest schedule with guys picked at the bottom of the draft. Simply incredible!

  119. Like who? Greatest Show on Turf was high powered but poorly coached (Dick Vermeil was gone) and the defense won that game. Eagles were very good in the early 2000s but probably a level below great. And Brady only had to score 24 points to win. Panthers were good and Brady played his best Super Bowl scoring over 30 points. Falcons were quite good and Matt Ryan had his best year but they’re weren’t great and played the worst 4th quarter in Super Bowl history. Seahawks had a great roster but was decimated compared to the squad that beat the Broncos the previous year. Sherman with a torn UCL, Chancellor had a torn MCL, Thomas a dislocated shoulder, Lane a broken leg and Avril out with a concussion.

    —-
    All of them except the Giants and Panthers were better than the teams Montana faced. The AFC was nowhere near the conference back then that the NFC is today.

    So funny how excruciating it is for many to give Mr Brady any credit whatsoever! 🙂

  120. Like who? Greatest Show on Turf was high powered but poorly coached (Dick Vermeil was gone) and the defense won that game.
    ——

    The defense allowed a then-SB record for passing. They did nothing of the kind,

  121. Ready should also have a couple more rings if it wasn’t for their putrid D giving up the late leads.!! And also they tyree catch!!

  122. Nite2al says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm
    Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC
    —————————————
    Obviously, since some many posters commented on my post, it struck a nerve with some truth to it. First, any idiot can see NE is in a very weak division. Don’t give me stats against other opponents in the regular season where it is still less wins than the East, which proves my point. Simply, with one or two additional losses a year, NE would have more road playoff games and we all know they suck on the road in the playoffs!! Dont give me regular season stats…how about the playoff road record? Being in another division would not have yielded lofty records and byes…6-0, 5-1 every year makes a big difference against the scrubs AFC East teams year after year!!

  123. nite2al says:
    January 18, 2019 at 4:49 am
    Nite2al says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm
    Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC
    —————————————
    Obviously, since some many posters commented on my post, it struck a nerve with some truth to it. First, any idiot can see NE is in a very weak division. Don’t give me stats against other opponents in the regular season where it is still less wins than the East, which proves my point. Simply, with one or two additional losses a year, NE would have more road playoff games and we all know they suck on the road in the playoffs!! Dont give me regular season stats…how about the playoff road record? Being in another division would not have yielded lofty records and byes…6-0, 5-1 every year makes a big difference against the scrubs AFC East teams year after year!!
    ———-
    What division would you like to put them in to prove your point? Honestly. No one is cherry picking stats except you. In the BB/Brady era, which has lasted 18 years, they’ve not played well at KC, at Den, at Mia. SEA, NYG to name a few more have had some success. Their record in and out of the division and conference over 18 years should tell you what you need to know at this point…they’re a well coached and quarterbacked team.

    For what it’s worth, Montana was 2-5 on the road in the playoffs so perhaps we should discredit his accomplishments too.

  124. The Patriots held the Greatest Show on Turf to 10 net points. That won the game, not Brady’s 145 yards passing.

    ——————-

    GoodellMustGo says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:53 pm
    Like who? Greatest Show on Turf was high powered but poorly coached (Dick Vermeil was gone) and the defense won that game.
    ——

    The defense allowed a then-SB record for passing. They did nothing of the kind,

  125. Brady’s also thrown the most interceptions in history. I guess that means he’s also the worst QB to ever play.

    ——————-

    pedmeg says:
    January 17, 2019 at 11:33 am
    If you read all those records above and still do not consider Tom Brady the greatest QB to ever play the game then YOU ARE A FOOL

  126. ike,

    How do you win games in the NFL? Score more points than the other team. Its that simple.

    If the D had 1sy 2sy top 10s here and there, I might chalk it up to luck. Its not luck. Its a consistently dominant, year in and year out thing for Belichicks teams. Somehow, someway, he keeps his opponents out of the endzone.

    The lowest they have EVER finished is 17th.. and you have to go all the way back to 2005 to find it…

    Name ANOTHER team in NFL history that had that kind of advantage? Maybe Landrys Cowboys? Maybe Bud Grants D? Otherwise, I doubt there is one.

  127. saw montana play at ND and in the league. Brady by far the better qb. Joe was very good surrounded by dominant talent his entire career (no free agency). Niners never missed a beat when they replaced him with steve young. Brady has been driving teams to championships for 18 years playing against the toughest schedule with guys picked at the bottom of the draft. Simply incredible!
    =====

    The 9ers missed several beats without Montana.. took them, actually.

    Young couldn’t beat the Cowboys or Packers in the 90s. 2-5 against them in the Playoffs. 1-3 in NFCC Games.

  128. 9:53 am
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    nite2al says:
    January 18, 2019 at 4:49 am
    Obviously, since some many posters commented on my post, it struck a nerve with some truth to it.
    —————————————————————

    Anyone can see when they post nonsense it is going to get responded to. The Patriots winning % out of division is .764, in division it is .794. The minuscule difference largely being attributed to the two games they play each year against the other AFC division winners. The Pats make every division they play against look bad. You don’t have to like it but it’s unfortunate you can’t at least appreciate what you’ve seen because it is unlikely anything like this 2 decades of dominance will ever happen again.

  129. patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    January 17, 2019 at 6:26 pm

    Chill_Donahue says:
    January 17, 2019 at 3:13 pm
    patsfan4lifesbchamps says:

    January 17, 2019 at 12:18 pm

    Brady’s longevity would not have been possible outside the Patriots system. The Patriots have had arguably the best offensive line coach in the league’s history, Dante Scarnecchia for most of Brady’s career. Even now, the Patriots run game is working mainly because the offensive line is playing awesome which takes pressure off Brady.

    =============================================

    If Pats offensive line was better, those two Giants Super Bowls and the Broncos AFCCG loss in 2015 would have gone much differently.

    And Belichick/Scarnecchia are only 18-19 coaching the Pats when Brady doesn’t start…some system.

    And for comparison:

    Career sacks/games played

    Brady: sacked 473 times in 269 games

    Peyton Manning: sacked 303 times in 266 games

    ——

    Most QBs would take 473 sacks in 269 games especially if they are pocket passers. That’s 1.76 sacks per game on average. That’s a great offensive line if it gives you those numbers to a pocket passers like Brady. Manning low sack numbers were mostly due his quick release and protection adjustments at the line of scrimmage. There was nothing special about any of Manning’s lines.

    No real Patriots fan would ever diminish the importance of Dante Scarnecchia to the success of the team

    ============================================================

    Uh, so your saying that Brady doesn’t have a quick release and doesn’t make line adjustments and somehow is NOT a pocket passer. … Yikes. No true Pats fan would say that.

    Scarnecchia is great, never said he wasn’t. But Pats have had ups and downs with their offensive line like any other team due to injuries, talent and other factors.

    And further to the quick release point, Joey Bossa had somethings to say about that last week.

  130. aarons444 says:

    January 18, 2019 at 9:42 am

    ike,

    How do you win games in the NFL? Score more points than the other team. Its that simple.

    If the D had 1sy 2sy top 10s here and there, I might chalk it up to luck. Its not luck. Its a consistently dominant, year in and year out thing for Belichicks teams. Somehow, someway, he keeps his opponents out of the endzone.

    The lowest they have EVER finished is 17th.. and you have to go all the way back to 2005 to find it…

    Name ANOTHER team in NFL history that had that kind of advantage? Maybe Landrys Cowboys? Maybe Bud Grants D? Otherwise, I doubt there is one.

    ==========================

    Defense DVOA is a FAR superior stat as I’ve definitively proven to you before. Case in point last years Pats “top 5” defense.

    Pats were 5th in 2017 in points allowed. And yet they were 29th in yards allowed . Giving up tons of yards might be ok against a bad team, but against a good team (like the Eagles in the SB), that doesn’t fly.

    Against their best 9 opponents in 2017 the Pats points allowed average jumped from 18.5 to 26.0 (from 18.5 ). Giving up 26.0 pts/gm would have ranked 31st overall. That is horrendous, objectively. Good defenses stop good teams. DVOA accounts for strength of opponent thus it is a much better indicator. Pats defense last year (and some other years) was NOT good. That’s why points against is an incomplete stat.

    Pats defense DVOA in SB appearance years:

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

    Overall that is just…ok. Not special at all.

  131. Defense DVOA is a FAR superior stat as I’ve definitively proven to you before.
    =====

    Yes. You’re entitled to that opinion.

    I’ve never said otherwise.

  132. “15 of 18 years since 2001 with a top 10 D” is an opinion too.
    =====

    Yet its the standard noted by any respected outlet we can name……

    .. I’ll start counting how many times the networks talk about DVOA.

  133. aarons444 says:

    January 18, 2019 at 11:30 am

    “15 of 18 years since 2001 with a top 10 D” is an opinion too.
    =====

    Yet its the standard noted by any respected outlet we can name……

    .. I’ll start counting how many times the networks talk about DVOA.

    =========================================

    Lots of respected NFL writers use it. NFL front offices too. Strange that concrete examples, and the opinions NFL writers and NFL GMs aren’t enough for you. Strange that you think a defense holding the Bills to 3 points and yet gave up 33 points to Houston or who allowed 25 pts/gm in last years playoffs would worthy of “top 5 defense” bragging rights.

  134. Really?

    Strange that they only surrender 3 to the Bills?

    I’ve been told over and over again that the AFC East is the power division in the sport…

  135. Uh, guess you didn’t follow along.

    But if you think that’s strange, its really strange you think the AFC East is bad competition for the Pats while, at the same time, are against the defensive stat that actually takes into account strength of schedule. Can’t do both.

  136. It is amazing! Credit to Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong …also rewrote their respective record books. It’s a great period in sports to witness such greatness all around!

  137. Defense DVOA is a FAR superior stat as I’ve definitively proven to you before. Case in point last years Pats “top 5” defense.

    Pats were 5th in 2017 in points allowed. And yet they were 29th in yards allowed . Giving up tons of yards might be ok against a bad team, but against a good team (like the Eagles in the SB), that doesn’t fly.

    Against their best 9 opponents in 2017 the Pats points allowed average jumped from 18.5 to 26.0 (from 18.5 ). Giving up 26.0 pts/gm would have ranked 31st overall. That is horrendous, objectively. Good defenses stop good teams. DVOA accounts for strength of opponent thus it is a much better indicator. Pats defense last year (and some other years) was NOT good. That’s why points against is an incomplete stat.

    Pats defense DVOA in SB appearance years:

    2017 – 31st
    2016 – 16th
    2013 – 20th
    2011 – 30th
    2007 – 11th
    2004 – 7th
    2003 – 2nd
    2001 – 13th

    Overall that is just…ok. Not special at all.

    _____________________________________________________

    They didn’t lose because of yards. They lost because the Eagles had a higher SCORE. That’s points, bud

  138. Every year the Pats continually beat opponents from outside of that division. Be it in the regular or post season. Their out of division\conference record is better than within the division.

    You can complain all you want about the AFCE being a cake walk. The bottom line is the NFL keeps sending them and the Pats keep beating them. It has little or nothing to do with the AFCE. You know it. We all know it.

  139. nite2al says:
    January 17, 2019 at 12:07 pm
    Thank the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. With the Pat’s bad playoff road record, Brady would not sniff these milestones in a decent division. The Black and Blue division would have worn NE down; Broncos and KC would have owned Brady in the AFC west.
    ======================
    The Lions and the Chargers (who are slightly better than the Bills btw) who are both in the bottom third in all time winning percentages ?!?!?!?

  140. davedsone says:

    They didn’t lose because of yards. They lost because the Eagles had a higher SCORE. That’s points, bud

    =========================————==============

    Exactly. Pats defense was truly terrible in 2017 against decent teams (26.5 pts/game regular season, 25.0 pts/game playoffs). Defense DVOA takes into account strength of opponent. Thus its a much better indicator.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!