Bart Starr is still the NFL’s all-time most efficient postseason passer

AP

Flip through the NFL Record & Fact Book and you’ll quickly discover that the modern passing era has wiped out the records of the great quarterbacks of the past: Whether you look at the records for yards or completions or completion percentage or passer rating or touchdown passes or fewest interceptions, you’ll find nothing but recent names. With one major exception.

The record for the highest postseason passer rating still belongs to Bart Starr, who played his last postseason game more than 50 years ago.

Starr, who died on Sunday at the age of 85, still has the NFL record for the highest postseason passer rating, at 104.8.

Starr’s postseason stats are, for their era, absolutely amazing. He averaged 8.2 yards per pass and threw 15 touchdowns and only three interceptions. All of his postseason games were played in the 1960s, when the typical TD:INT ratio was about 1:1, and quarterbacks typically averaged a little over six yards per pass.

In the 1966 season, the league average passer rating was 67.4. That postseason, Starr had a 143.5 passer rating in leading the Packers to a win at Dallas in the NFL Championship Game, then had a 116.2 passer rating in leading the Packers to a win over the Chiefs in Super Bowl I.

To Starr, the most important stat of all was that the Packers went 9-1 in the 10 postseason games he played.

86 responses to “Bart Starr is still the NFL’s all-time most efficient postseason passer

  1. When you have the best o line in the league that’s not a surprise. Starr was my first man crush but comparing a player who never threw for more than 16 TDS in a season to TB or PM is frankly an absurd exercise in statistical balderdash. His int/TD ratio is overall meh with a couple of good years and a 16-16 as well as a wall hitting 9-17 year in 67. Passing in Starr’s era was a compliment to the running game upon which all game plans were based.

    So while statistically correct, I’d take Brady or Manning over Starr every day and twice on game day.

  2. When you have the best o- line in football that’s expected. Starr posted TD /INT ratios that included a 16-16 season in 63 as well as a wall hitting 9-17 in 67 following a SB win. Maybe that’s the cliff we keep hearing about.

    Starr career TD/ INT 152/138
    Brady only 517-171

    But you can say Starr is better if you like. He was my first man crush too but I found a prettier date.

  3. Great player, great person. Isn’t it interesting that great coaches always have great QBs?

  4. That’s AWESOME 👏 I would hate to see a flash in the pan like Nick Foles pass true royalty of the game !

  5. This is why I have been saying for decades that the most over-looked player in NFL history when it comes to great QB’s was Bart Starr.
    The fact is, no one but Bart Starr has won 5 championships in 7 years, and Bart lost another one when he had the Packers driving down the field, but the Eagles great LB’er / Center Chuck Bednarik tackled Packers FB Jimmy Taylor on the Eagles 10 yard line as the clock ran out. So that was 6 championship games he was in in 7 years, and his Packers also won championships three years in a row. No one can match that.
    But championships are not what made Bart so great. It was his excellence in big games and the way he ran the offense, and the respect he had from his teammates as well as his opponents. When asked years later what the difference was between his Cowboys and Lombardi’s Packers, concerning the two consecutive losses to the Packers in the 66 and 67 championship games, former great head coach Tom Landry summed it up in two words. He said, “Bart Starr”. He called Starr “magnificent”. Don Meredith never forgave Landry for that, but he wasn’t slighting Meredith, he was just pointing out how great Starr was in those big games.
    I think that is probably the best word which can be used to describe Starr as a QB and as a person. He was magnificent. When anyone ranks the greatest QB of all time, Starr absolutely has to be in the conversation. Because if he isn’t, the person doing the ranking never saw him play.

  6. The kind of player every team should desire. He was a better person off the field than a player on the field, and excelled at both. It’s troubling in this day and age so many people are losing the ability to care for the difference, as evidenced by too many trolls on this site. They have no clue how to be a good person. They never learned it from anyone before them. Bitterness and resentment tend to stay in bloodlines.

  7. I think it’s appropriate to acknowledge Starrs’ admiration and respect for Aaron Rodgers. Somebody got it.

  8. Just about every sport has records standing from bygone eras. No one will ever bat .400 in baseball again. Doesn’t mean Ted Williams could do it today even if he wasn’t a frozen head.

    Lombardi’s Packers only threw the ball about 40% of the time.

  9. With all due respect to Starr and GB let’s not go crazy about the 104.8 rating.

    Starr’s playoff career is a sample size of 6 games.

    Six.

    Cannot compare that with the modern era where one Super Bowl run is 3 or 4 games.

  10. Playoff games:
    Brady 40
    P Manning 27
    Favre 24
    Montana 23
    Elway 22
    Young 22
    Roethlisberger 21

    Starr 6, and only 2 of them post merger

    Just putting it in its proper perspective. 🙂

  11. I am glad you posted this, because not only does it show how great he was (and he was) but it helps support in my brain there is no GOAT – at any position. If a guy who could do that with the rules they had then, imagine what he could do when blowing on the QB gets you RTP and a WR throwing his arms up will get you DPI. All respects to the greats of each era, but have to put it in the right perspective.

  12. Imagine what that kid could do today.

    Drop Bart Starr into, say, the Cowboys’ offense, or the offense Matt Ryan has been working hard to make average in ATL for the last few years…

    All in all it’s entirely possible he was probably the greatest who ever played, but there’s just no way to know for sure.

  13. GoodellMustGo says:
    May 28, 2019 at 9:00 am
    Playoff games:
    Brady 40
    P Manning 27
    Favre 24
    Montana 23
    Elway 22
    Young 22
    Roethlisberger 21

    Starr 6, and only 2 of them post merger

    Just putting it in its proper perspective. 🙂
    ______________________________________________

    Not sure where you’re looking, I’m counting 10 playoff games. 9-1 record in said playoffs, with 5 championships.

    You are confusing 6 postseasons with 6 postseason games. Your count is way off.

  14. Sounds like a system QB to me.
    >>>><<<<<
    Yea, it was called the Lombardi system, where preparation, execution and effort were a must.
    Some could handle it, other's couldn't. Starr could handle it.

  15. It’s sad, the amount of butt-hurt Pat fans on here, who just can’t stand the thought of anyone else but Brady getting any kind of QB accolades.

    Bart Starr has just passed away, he was an icon in Alabama and Packerland, as well as the rest of the NFL, (Obviously an older generation of fans.) please try and allow the few personal and professional stories to make their way through the news cycle without taking it as a personal affront to your Golden Boy.

    If it helps, retreat to your safe space until it’s alright to rejoin the rest of us.
    Thank you.

  16. Can you imagine how soft the balls were in those cold-weather games, knowing what we do now about Ideal Gas Law? Not cheating, just simple physics — but it helped his game.

  17. Starr is one of the past greats, but in terms of playoff efficiency you’re overlooking major statistical significance & weighting factors. He made far fewer passes (a half or third) than a modern QB and played far fewer games. There were fewer playoff demands in his early career, and in his later career far less parity against the early AFL. His overall career rating is actually just 80.5 – while good for his time he was actually only mid table in say 1967, and Sonny Jurgensen (same age) had a career rating of 82.6 (playing many more games). And in the majority of his seasons Bart Starr didn’t make the playoffs anyway. So what we are looking at is some stats that are both screwy for their time and don’t translate well today.

  18. For those downplaying this amazing accomplishment, I would like to point out that Starr played in an era when the NFL allowed teams to play defense. There was no:
    -Pass interference
    -Roughing the passer
    -Defenseless receiver
    -Crown of the helmet
    -Tuck rule

    The league is now totally focused on allowing huge QB stats.

  19. Not only a great quarterback but more importantly a great man. They don’t come classier then him. When he was the head coach of the Packers I wrote to him saying I lived 850 miles away and didn’t have access to tickets (pre ticket exchange days!) and he responded by sending me four tickets to a game against Seattle. I know THAT wouldn’t happen today…

  20. Bart Starr would be Eli Manning today… Although Eli’s career stats are better. Starr threw almost as many INT’s as TD’s.

  21. “Quite a few posters are too young to have witnessed the NFL in the 60’s. Much different game”

    Indeed it was. Offensive concepts were simpler and the game wasn’t as fast. The NFL was still a segregationist league at that point, where teams had a quota on how many black players they could carry and excluded them from playing certain positions.

    Arguing a QB from the 60s was the best of his era is one thing, the best of all time is quite another.

  22. stellarperformance says:
    May 28, 2019 at 8:15 am

    It’s troubling in this day and age so many people are losing the ability to care for the difference, as evidenced by too many trolls on this site. They have no clue how to be a good person. They never learned it from anyone before them. Bitterness and resentment tend to stay in bloodlines

    stellarperformance says:
    May 25, 2019 at 10:57 pm

    Viking fan grandparents, parents, spouses, siblings, friends, family, co-workers, you name it……….have been eating Packer crap sandwiches for as long as anybody can remember.

    Bon Appetite

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Troll heal thy self.

  23. No mention of his founding and work with Rawhide boys ranch for underprivileged kids in Wisconsin during his playing days and thereafter. It had quite an impact in Wisconsin, and he deserves accolades and thanks for setting up the charity.

  24. LMAO at the Brady fanboys trying to downplay Bart Starr’s elite play. Bart played in a time when you could actually hit the QB unlike the sissy Brady where you receive a penalty flag for breathing on him.

  25. So what we are looking at is some stats that are both screwy for their time and don’t translate well today.
    >>><<<<
    Winning in the playoffs, the biggest games, translates very well today and across time. He was money in crunch time in the post-season and was fortunate to play QB on a very balanced and quality offense. It was a perfect fit for Starr, and he almost always delivered on his end of the bargain. Nothing to discount here.

  26. One other factor — Starr played in 6 NFL championship games. It was cool and clear in Philadelphia in 1960, cold as hell in Green Bay in 1961, cold with brutal wind in New York in 1962, a complete mudbath/slop storm in Green Bay in 1965, nice in Dallas in 1966, and the Ice Bowl in 1967. Starr had to perform in terrible conditions and always performed well. It’s no slight to Tom Brady, or Joe Montana, or Terry Bradshaw, but Starr had to excel in horrible conditions. And he did. I saw Brady win in the snow, Montana win on a very cold day in Chicago, and Bradshaw win in adverse conditions several times, but no one had to face the elements more often than Bart Starr.

  27. Lemmy Aksyadis says:

    May 28, 2019 at 7:04 am…

    So while statistically correct, I’d take Brady or Manning over Starr every day and twice on game day…
    ===============================
    TB,PM,AR,RW and most of the other current QB’s wouldn’t have made it for 5 years in that NFL.

  28. If the great QB’s of the 50’s 60’s(Unitas, Starr, etc.) had played with the type of offensive scoring, pass oriented rules that the greats of the modern era benefit from now, they’d likely have similarly gaudy stats.

    If the greats of today played under the rules in the 50’s and 60’s, they’d still be great – no doubt about that – but they’d have similar stat lines as the the greats of the day.

    If you don’t think changes to the game to emphasize scoring and passing have signicantly inflated modern QB stats against those of past greats, you’re just being silly. How could they not?

    That doesn’t diminish the greatness of a Brady or a Manning of a Brees at all – they’re all time greats, first ballot hall of fame players.

    But likewise, their modern era stats don’t diminish players like Unitas or Starr.

    An all-time great is an all- time great in any era.

  29. As a lifelong Packers fan I think I can speak for the majority of us and say we very much appreciate what Brady has done. There is no dispute from me at all.
    Brady is the greatest of this era of the NFL and Starr was the greatest of his era.

    The games in each of their eras is so vastly different you cannot really compare the two.

  30. flviking says:
    May 28, 2019 at 10:26 am
    Troll heal thy self.
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    I’m glad you chimed-in. I think you have potential. You have to work on discerning between proactive posts and reactive posts. Mine are reactive and wouldn’t even occur if not for the proactive posts. Learn the difference, and have a nice day!

  31. I am old enough to have seen him play many times. Trust me, Starr, Unitas, Jurgensen, Tarkenton and a few others from that era would light up the NFL today with the way the rules are now. They were exceptional.

  32. I think you have potential. You have to work on discerning between proactive posts and reactive posts. Mine are reactive and wouldn’t even occur if not for the proactive posts.
    _____
    Still trying to peddle this lie? You do know people can read and have memories.

  33. I knew when I read this topic the thread would be filled with whiny Pats fanboys saying how could this be or hero Tammy is not the most efficient….after all he walks on water is about to find a cure for cancer……please stop Brady is good in an era that favors the offense protecting the QB’s and Wr. Brady wouldn’t last five years back in the day when it wasn’t played by the new sissy rules. Brady is great…..under the current rules so you cant compare him to QB’s that played when you could mug a wr on every play.

  34. Let’s not get carried away. He won the 1962 championship throwing 0 touchdowns to 0 interceptions. Then, won another one in 1965 throwing 1 touchdown to 1 interception. He won his very first championship in the 1960 season throwing 1 touchdown to 0 interceptions as well. To put things into some perspective, Tom Brady did more in Super Bowl LIII than Starr did in that 1992 championship game against the Giants, which isn’t saying much at all. Now, Starr played great in the 1966 and 1967 seasons to win Super Bowls I and II. Those were the highlights of his playoff career.

    Nevertheless, I’m just not understanding some of the comments here that are claiming he was the greatest. He won with no salary cap and no instant replay as well. All these teams had to do was win their own division and they were automatically in the championship game. Imagine if the Patriots got to play in 16 super bowls since 2001. Starr was one of the best, though, he most certainly wasn’t the greatest. Brady and Montana won games in leagues comprised of 32 teams and 28 teams. Starr won championships in a league with no more than 16 teams.

  35. ringheadcrusher says:
    May 28, 2019 at 9:23 am
    GoodellMustGo says:
    May 28, 2019 at 9:00 am
    Playoff games:
    Brady 40
    P Manning 27
    Favre 24
    Montana 23
    Elway 22
    Young 22
    Roethlisberger 21

    Starr 6, and only 2 of them post merger

    Just putting it in its proper perspective. 🙂
    ______________________________________________

    Not sure where you’re looking, I’m counting 10 playoff games. 9-1 record in said playoffs, with 5 championships.

    You are confusing 6 postseasons with 6 postseason games. Your count is way off.
    —-
    My bad, you are absolutely right. 6 playoff seasons and I misread my source as as a playoff game log. Wouldn’t make sense that he won a championship in the Super Bowl era in the postseason playing only one game. I think that’s where I was mixed up as the NFL Championship pre merger was 1 playoff game.

    I do agree that it was way more difficult to get a high passer rating back then but to be fair the defenses back then we’re nowhere near the caliber of the defenses in the modern game.

  36. Tarkenton’s Facebook post is absolutely fantastic. I mean really … I almost puddled up listening to #10 express his admiration for #15.

    I couldn’t help but think that Starr probably would have said the same thing about Tarkenton if the roles were reversed.

    …and you guys posting your usual “goat” comparisons … please park it for a week. Your opinion isn’t worth much in normal times… It’s really quite worthless when an entire state and fanbase is in mourning. Bart was a humble man and would have poo-poo’d such talk anyway.

  37. As if Pats fans weren’t loathesome enough already, they can’t just shut their whiny faces for one day when an NFL great passes and the human folks are trying to remember and celebrate him

    The really sweet part though, is that when Brady passes, there will be troll and true fan alike remarking about his legacy of cheating and poor sportsmanship. Cheers kids, now do us all a favor and go play in traffic.

  38. “Nevertheless, I’m just not understanding some of the comments here that are claiming he was the greatest.”

    I’m pretty sure those calling him “THE greatest” are pretty much just Packers fans.”

    The rest of us “pr Bart” posters – myself included – consider him one of the greats, but that’s a bit different than “The” greatest.

    To your points: He played in an era where passing was little utilized mainly because the rules made passing a very risky proposition compared to today’s game. When a player like Starr dropped back to pass, it was a much more difficult proposition than what a player like Brady now faces.

    As to the competition point – some would argue (and it’s a good argument) that more teams means diluted competition level within the respective era – not greater. If the NFL of today only had 16 teams it would be 16 absolutely loaded teams, teams with the top 50 percent of the current talent level and nothing below – think about that for a second.

  39. You can’t compare the eras. There are more teams today. The defensemen are bigger. Parity has made far more teams competitive.

    What Starr did was nice but he wouldn’t survive in today’s NFL.

  40. Number of Patriots fans talking up Brady in this topic: 0

    Patriot Hater: Waaaah stop talking about Brady!!! 😭😭😭

    🤔

  41. endtimesparty says:
    May 28, 2019 at 1:13 pm
    You can’t compare the eras. There are more teams today. The defensemen are bigger. Parity has made far more teams competitive.

    What Starr did was nice but he wouldn’t survive in today’s NFL.

    ——
    It’s so hard to compare across eras.

    Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.

  42. I prefer the term GOTE – greatest of their era
    Starr was exceptional in an era where the rules did not favor the passing game
    Defensive backs were allowed to make contact up until the time the ball was in the air
    Offensive lineman weren’t allowed to extend their arms and grab as much as today
    Offensive holding was a 15 yard penalty from the spot of the foul, not the line of scrimmage
    Roughing the passer rules were far less stringent
    And despite all of this, Starr managed a 104 QBR for 10 playoff games and his teams won nine of them! One of the game’s great players and worthy of all the accolades he has received.

  43. endtimesparty says:
    “What Starr did was nice but he wouldn’t survive in today’s NFL”.

    So you’re saying a QB who throws touchdowns and doesn’t throw interceptions has no place in the NFL today? Starr was sacked 11 times in a game against the Lions. Today’s rules make sacks namby-pamby compared to what was allowed then.

  44. papathorson says:
    May 28, 2019 at 11:15 am

    Thank you for posting the Tarkenton video. Sir Francis was there and he knows what playing quarterback in that era was like. Very few quarterbacks of that era remain and his statements carry a lot of weight.

  45. Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.

    2 2

    That is such BS. What you are doing is cherry picking your stats to support your agenda because your argument stinks. You may have been watching football since about 2000 thus you are unqualified to judge what older players would do today. The game was much tougher and pansies like Brady would have gotten eat alive back in the day. That’s not to say Tammy is not the best of his era, but to disrespect a player because you cant see the difference between the eras is wrong but typical Patsie fanboy stuff.

  46. So while statistically correct, I’d take Brady or Manning over Starr every day and twice on game day.” Everybody who is freaking out about this article like it is saying Bart is the best of all time or even the best of all time in postseason, READ article.

    It simply says Starr was the most efficient in post season and the stats bear that out. That’s IT. So quit posting about regular season stats or comparing eras or arguing GOAT. He holds the highest rating for postseason QB play. Period.

    By the way, whomever said Starr wouldn’t last in this era is missing some perspective. Those old QBs got hammered regularly and didn’t have any of the rules favoring the offense that today’s QBs have. I think it would be the opposite. Today’s stars couldn’t hang with Starr in that era.

  47. ringheadcrusher says:
    May 28, 2019 at 9:23 am
    GoodellMustGo says:
    May 28, 2019 at 9:00 am
    Playoff games:
    Brady 40
    P Manning 27
    Favre 24
    Montana 23
    Elway 22
    Young 22
    Roethlisberger 21

    Starr 6, and only 2 of them post merger

    Just putting it in its proper perspective. 🙂
    ______________________________________________

    Not sure where you’re looking, I’m counting 10 playoff games. 9-1 record in said playoffs, with 5 championships.

    You are confusing 6 postseasons with 6 postseason games. Your count is way off.

    92 7 Rate This

    ———————————————

    His count is on point. Post-merger Starr wasn’t as good.

    he handed it off to Hornung and Taylor and had an all world O Line at a time with like 10 teams in the league and no cap, etc.

  48. aj66shanghai says:
    May 28, 2019 at 12:57 pm
    As if Pats fans weren’t loathesome enough already, they can’t just shut their whiny faces for one day when an NFL great passes and the human folks are trying to remember and celebrate him

    The really sweet part though, is that when Brady passes, there will be troll and true fan alike remarking about his legacy of cheating and poor sportsmanship. Cheers kids, now do us all a favor and go play in traffic.

    4 5 Rate This

    ——————–

    Fact 1; There is no cheating unless you believe in the Tooth Fairy, too.
    Fact 2:Eras are different.
    Fact 3: Midwesterners are so insecure.
    Fact 4: Zdeno Chara just called Brady the nicest guy he ever met and a pro’s pro. Anything else is conjured up in your mind due to jealousy and a fear that the Packers legacy has been surpassed by now.

  49. It’s apples and oranges, different eras, different rule books and some might argue, a different game.

    Still Starr showed up in the playoff games and was brillant when others choked.

  50. Vasteelerfan says:
    May 28, 2019 at 2:26 pm
    Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.

    2 2

    That is such BS. What you are doing is cherry picking your stats to support your agenda because your argument stinks. You may have been watching football since about 2000 thus you are unqualified to judge what older players would do today. The game was much tougher and pansies like Brady would have gotten eat alive back in the day. That’s not to say Tammy is not the best of his era, but to disrespect a player because you cant see the difference between the eras is wrong but typical Patsie fanboy stuff.

    ——-
    Translation: 😭😭😭😭😭

    No, I’m saying wins and rings is the only legit and tanglble way to compare greatness across eras. Surely you must agree that you can’t do it with stats. I know Patriot Hater isn’t very bright but I’m sure even they understand that. It really is that obvious.

  51. By the way, whomever said Starr wouldn’t last in this era is missing some perspective. Those old QBs got hammered regularly and didn’t have any of the rules favoring the offense that today’s QBs have. I think it would be the opposite. Today’s stars couldn’t hang with Starr in that era.

    ——
    I think “QB’s got hit all the time” has a very different meaning back then than it would today in the modern game. Hence statements like the above mean nothing.

    There really isn’t any proof a Marino, Brady, Peyton or Favre couldn’t do well in Starr’s era. Just like there’s no proof that a Unitas, Starr or Graham would do great in today’s game with plays far beyond what they ran back in the day in complexity and speed.

  52. No, I’m saying wins and rings is the only legit and tanglble way to compare greatness across eras. Surely you must agree that you can’t do it with stats. I know Patriot Hater isn’t very bright but I’m sure even they understand that. It really is that obvious.

    2

    It’s the only legit way according to a Pats fanboy and insulting someone intelligence is hardly the mark of a mature…..and intelligent person. I never argue with kids and immature Pats fanboys ……its just not challenging. Keep insulting peoples intelligence like #45 but be sure to keep a dentist in your contacts because you will be needing it.

  53. cheeseisfattening says:
    May 28, 2019 at 12:24 pm
    Still trying to peddle this lie? You do know people can read and have memories.
    Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    People? You mean trolls. Memories? You mean insults.

    No sympathy here.

  54. ——
    I think “QB’s got hit all the time” has a very different meaning back then than it would today in the modern game. Hence statements like the above mean nothing.

    No it doesn’t…back then you dive at the QB’s knees you could hit him in the head you throw violently to the ground…..but you are to young to remember those games so you are talking out of your butt as usual. Spin the story to win the story…even if its lies…pathetic.

  55. Vasteelerfan says:
    May 28, 2019 at 3:36 pm
    No, I’m saying wins and rings is the only legit and tanglble way to compare greatness across eras. Surely you must agree that you can’t do it with stats. I know Patriot Hater isn’t very bright but I’m sure even they understand that. It really is that obvious.

    2

    It’s the only legit way according to a Pats fanboy and insulting someone intelligence is hardly the mark of a mature…..and intelligent person. I never argue with kids and immature Pats fanboys ……its just not challenging. Keep insulting peoples intelligence like #45 but be sure to keep a dentist in your contacts because you will be needing it.
    ————————————————–
    You think calling a total stranger a “pansy” and “Tammy” is the mark of a mature and intelligent person? Better guess again. That’s the mark of a jealous, whining crybaby with major personal issues. Get help or admit you’re an adolescent.

    GOAT is a stupid acronym, different eras, different rules, better medical and surgical procedures, there is no way to compare players except within their own era.

  56. Vasteelerfan says:
    May 28, 2019 at 2:26 pm
    Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.

    2 2

    That is such BS. What you are doing is cherry picking your stats to support your agenda because your argument stinks. You may have been watching football since about 2000 thus you are unqualified to judge what older players would do today. The game was much tougher and pansies like Brady would have gotten eat alive back in the day. That’s not to say Tammy is not the best of his era, but to disrespect a player because you cant see the difference between the eras is wrong but typical Patsie fanboy stuff.
    ___________________________________________________________________________

    Coming from a Steelers fan. How many games has Ben missed due to injury? Brady has missed one season due to an ACL, that’s it. Played through tons of injuries over 19 seasons, I think that makes him pretty darn tough. Ben’s career would have ended in 4 to 5 season based on how he plays. While Brady knows how to take a hit, throw it away or get down before the impact… oh but wait you guy call that being soft. I’ll take a “soft” player that wins constantly for 2 decades over a “tough guy” QB any day.

  57. Goodellmustgo:

    Slight changes to your statement, and it is still just as valid:

    “There really isn’t any proof a Marino, Brady, Peyton or Favre could do well in Starr’s era where the rules vastly hampered the passing game and protections for the QB were practically non-existent. Just like there’s no proof that a Unitas, Starr or Graham couldn’t do great in today’s game with plays far beyond what they ran back in the day in complexity and speed, but with rules that greatly favor the success of the passing game.”

    See how that works?

  58. 0

    0

    Rate This

    Vasteelerfan says:
    May 28, 2019 at 4:00 pm
    ——
    I think “QB’s got hit all the time” has a very different meaning back then than it would today in the modern game. Hence statements like the above mean nothing.
    No it doesn’t…back then you dive at the QB’s knees you could hit him in the head you throw violently to the ground…..but you are to young to remember those games so you are talking out of your butt as usual. Spin the story to win the story…even if its lies…pathetic.

    —-
    Wrong. Roughing the passer in its various incarnations has been around since the 30’s.

    Most defensive players back then wouldn’t be strong enough or fast enough to make an NCAA Division 3 roster today never mind an NFL roster.

  59. “Quite a few posters are too young to have witnessed the NFL in the 60’s. Much different game”

    Lolz by today’s standards defenses were committing what are modern penalties on pretty much every single play. Much different indeed.

  60. Tom Brady is the 7th most sacked quarterback in NFL history. He most certainly would have survived in Bart Starr’s era, especially with having Vince Lombardi as his coach. Starr was only 6’1”. Just think about that for a second. I only bring up Brady because you have hypocritical biased fans, such as Vasteelerfan or Superpatriotsfan, spouting typical BS.

  61. elvoid says:
    May 28, 2019 at 4:48 pm
    Goodellmustgo:
    Slight changes to your statement, and it is still just as valid:
    “There really isn’t any proof a Marino, Brady, Peyton or Favre could do well in Starr’s era where the rules vastly hampered the passing game and protections for the QB were practically non-existent. Just like there’s no proof that a Unitas, Starr or Graham couldn’t do great in today’s game with plays far beyond what they ran back in the day in complexity and speed, but with rules that greatly favor the success of the passing game.”


    No there isn’t. But hardly anyone is making that argument, they’re arguing the reverse.
    Their opinion, not fact. 🙂

  62. That’s the truth – it’s opinion. Not a damn thing empirical about it either way.

    Opinion makes the fan world go ’round, I guess. (And keeps a roof over Florio’s head)

  63. Tom Brady is the 7th most sacked quarterback in NFL history. He most certainly would have survived in Bart Starr’s era, especially with having Vince Lom

    I guess if you play into your 40’s you are going to be sacked a lot that is a fact of longevity and who said Brady would have Lombardi as coach. You accused me of BS…..what is your spinning Brady and Lombardi….that’s BS…..hypocrite.

  64. These comments coming from Pats fans reflect their recent arrival as NFL fans. Those of use who have been watching for 60 years as I have just laugh at how soft the game is now. I have seen wind burn penalties called in Bradys favor and older players will praise his accomplishments in public but in private say he is wearing a dress and is protected by todays rules. I think having seen the rougher league for years I am far more qualified to state who is tough and who isn’t more so than someone having just started watching beginning around Bradys rookie year.

  65. Vasteelerfan says:
    May 28, 2019 at 5:36 pm
    These comments coming from Pats fans reflect their recent arrival as NFL fans. Those of use who have been watching for 60 years as I have just laugh at how soft the game is now. I have seen wind burn penalties called in Bradys favor and older players will praise his accomplishments in public but in private say he is wearing a dress and is protected by todays rules. I think having seen the rougher league for years I am far more qualified to state who is tough and who isn’t more so than someone having just started watching beginning around Bradys rookie year.
    —————————————–
    You are so full of it it’s unbelievable. The way you talk(type) and the way you act tells me you’re about 10 years old(mentally, if not physically). Like you’ve ever heard any of those older players speak in private. All you’re qualified to do is cry and whine, which you do on a regular basis. Got your crying towel, I mean terrible towel, ready for next year yet? Or is it still dying out? If you’d stop crying for a few hours it might get dry.

  66. GoodellMustGo says:
    May 28, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.
    ———————

    If the QB played defense and special teams as well as offense, I could possibly see someone convincing me of this. Since they don’t, no chance.

  67. As great of a player as Bart was, he was an even better person- his Rawhide program alone helped a lot of kids. RIP Mr. Starr.

  68. vikesfansarethedumbestfans says:
    May 28, 2019 at 11:03 pm
    GoodellMustGo says:
    May 28, 2019 at 1:32 pm

    Honestly- wins and rings really are the only legit way to do it even though nobody will admit it.
    ———————

    If the QB played defense and special teams as well as offense, I could possibly see someone convincing me of this. Since they don’t, no chance.

    ——-
    A QB win means they beat the other team and their QB who is benefiting by the very same rules in their era. Today which favor the passing game. You can’t compare stats across eras but wins.. sure you can.

  69. GoodellMustGo says:
    May 29, 2019 at 7:47 am

    A QB win means they beat the other team and their QB who is benefiting by the very same rules in their era. Today which favor the passing game. You can’t compare stats across eras but wins.. sure you can.
    —————

    So, by your meaning, had Tom Brady been drafted by the Browns and worked with inferior coaching and supporting teammates than he has had with the Patriots, and had never sniffed the playoffs his entire career, he would be considered a bad QB? Or at least nowhere near as good as he is regarded now?

  70. “When you have the best o line in the league that’s not a surprise. Starr was my first man crush but comparing a player who never threw for more than 16 TDS in a season to TB or PM is frankly an absurd exercise in statistical balderdash. His int/TD ratio is overall meh with a couple of good years and a 16-16 as well as a wall hitting 9-17 year in 67. Passing in Starr’s era was a compliment to the running game upon which all game plans were based. So while statistically correct, I’d take Brady or Manning over Starr every day and twice on game day.”

    Different eras. How good would Brady’s receivers be if they were held on every play and clothes lined when they came across the middle?

    It’s the same as the “Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time” rap. Sure he is unless he played against the Lambeer Pistons or the Charles Oakley Knicks. Hand checking, physical play that wouldn’t be tolerated today and if he drove to the basket he’d get killed.

  71. Never ceases to amaze me how a story about an all-time great hall-of-fame-PERSON as well as player manages to devolve into a cesspool. So many youngsters with so much bandwidth on their hands.

    RIP Coach.

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