Bernard Pollard isn’t buying Tom Brady as the best quarterback ever

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Recently, NFL.com flagged Tom Brady as the greatest quarterback of all time. The defensive back who ended Brady’s 2008 season in Week One disagrees.

“Y’all crazy!” Bernard Pollard said on social media, via CBSSports.com. “Peyton is #1 no doubt! Can’t go by rings. The things he did on two different teams are mind blowing. Tom Brady is clear cut #2. Tom has played in a system that works (no doubt he’s been special), Peyton WAS the system.”

Some would say that Manning would have achieved more in his career if he’d played for Patriots coach Bill Belichick. But Brady did, and Manning didn’t. So Brady, who has six — SIX! — Super Bowl wins is the best ever.

He possibly would have accomplished even more if Pollard hadn’t blown out Brady’s ACL 11 years ago.

142 responses to “Bernard Pollard isn’t buying Tom Brady as the best quarterback ever

  1. It’s hard to argue Bradys win production and ultimately that will be what matters but Manning is the only QB in my lifetime where defensive coordinators wouldnt blitz and had to hope they could go score for score and hope for 1 stop posession. He certainly had more on his plate.

  2. I don’t understand how people forget the past. Belichick was nothing before Brady. Whether he would have done anything with Manning is up for debate, but he didn’t with Bledsoe, Testaverde or Kosar. Manning was better at putting up stats, but Brady is a better winner. Manning had much better talent around him for most of his career than Brady has ever had other than Gronk.

  3. He has a good point. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.

  4. Two thoughts come to mind:

    1. Pollard did his best to prevent Brady from playing 20 years and becoming the goat.

    2. Pollard? Seriously? Hahahahaha!

  5. Most agree. No one knows how much cheating has been done for him to accomplish what he has. Never won a super bowl without a top 10 defense, Super Bowls given to him by refs, and can’t complete anything other than a slant or out.

  6. Not only is he right but there are others who are better than Brady, like Dan Marino for example…. Brady just lucked in to the best coach ever and made the best of the opportunity. Don’t get me wrong Brady is an amazing QB and a winner but he’s not the best to play the position…. he just happened to get paired with the best coach to put him in a position to win….. People always mention the superbowls but last time I checked getting to the Super Bowl and winning is a team achievement not individual.

  7. Tom Brady is the greatest cheater to ever live. Versatile with the ball pump and camera skills.

    ———-

    Oh. So now Brady let the air out of the balls.

    And Brady filmed from the wrong location.

    You whiners need to get your fabricated stories straight.

  8. magnumpimustache says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:26 pm
    Please, please, please rank Brady behind Marino, Elway, Rodgers and Ben

    We need the motivation
    ++++++++++++++++
    Lame.

  9. “It’s hard to argue Bradys win production and ultimately that will be what matters but Manning is the only QB in my lifetime where defensive coordinators wouldnt blitz and had to hope they could go score for score and hope for 1 stop possession. He certainly had more on his plate.”

    If he was so frightening, why was his playoff record below average?…literally… I thought his team was score for score and racking the points up??? That type of legendary status should mask any and all deficiencies by the team…

  10. Which system? Early career game manager? Mid career air assault and then double tight end attack? Or late career slot receiver possesion game turned power running offense?

    How many offenses has Peyton run again?

  11. I like how nobody mentions Belichick having a losing record without Brady. Even though rings are no way to measure a qb Peyton Manning had stacked offensive talent throughout his career and choked in the playoffs repeatedly until Sanders and Von Miller gave him two rings. Brady is the system Bledsoe and Vinny failed with Belichick Brady was the perfect qb since he makes the best decisions and other than Aaron Rodgers is the most accurate. Pollard is a fool plain and simple.

  12. Most agree. No one knows how much cheating has been done for him to accomplish what he has.

    ———-

    “Most” agree.

    In your dreams, maybe.

    Reasonable people disagree.

    As do federal judges.

  13. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.

    ——-

    You minimize Brady’s talents.

    We all know that BB is the goat HC, however there are decisions made on the field and clutch plays made that not every QB could make.

  14. Tom Brady is the greatest cheater to ever live.
    ————————————————–
    logicalvoicesays:
    How did the ball boy doctor the balls before he got the needle? please enlighten us.

  15. Not only is he right but there are others who are better than Brady, like Dan Marino for example…. Brady just lucked in to the best coach ever
    ————————
    Jr325, earth must be flat because you can’t see it is round, right ?
    Belichick didn’t even talk to his QB and offense on sidelines!!!
    Are you claiming that the system is super easy that Belichick doesn’t have to guide his QB?
    Are you claiming other QBs like Peyton, Brees and Rodgers are idiots?

  16. He has a good point. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.
    ————
    You must be one of those who would claim “Dan Marino could have won 5 SB with Don Shula” if Marino hadn’t played under Don Shula.

    BTW, dink n dunk is much much much harder than you can imagine because a completed pass doesn’t give you a first down. Get it?

  17. There are lot of so called football fans here who would claim “Dan Marino could have won 5 SB with Don Shula” if Marino hadn’t played under Don Shula.

    They should for once use that things on their shoulders and ask themselves why Mahomes didn’t slow down a bit in last TD drive in AFCCG. Did he forget how he lost to Brady in regular season?

    So they should make decision : either continue their stupid BS or believe Mahomes is an idiot.

  18. Another Pat clickbait story, and you idiots fall for it every time. The only stories that generate any kind of comments are Patriot related. It’s the only team people care enough to read about. Sheep.

  19. Drew Brees, 2002, with LaDainian Tomlinson, 333 pts in 16 games

    Drew Brees, 2003, with LaDainian Tomlinson, 313 pts in 16 games.

    Rodgers couldn’t score 380 pts without Jordy Nelson

    Between 2001 and 2006, Tom Brady was able to score 380 points without a top tier playmaker, sometimes even without 2nd tier WR.

  20. tylawspick6 says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:42 pm
    He has a good point. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.

    —————————————————————-

    Anyone except Drew Bledsoe, Vinny Testaverde, and Bernie Kosar? Who besides Brady has done great in his system?

  21. It will be quite enjoyable reading all the comments of the jealous & envious drones out there as Brady continues to add to his already staggering list of accomplishments over the next 3 years……
    Just make it easy on yourselves & enjoy his greatness…. you may never witness anything close to it again!!!

  22. 6 super bowls is incredible. But, only one of them has his name engraved in it, the Falcons one. That was the greatest second-half Super Bowl performance, ever.

    His first three, he played in a great system, for a great defense, with a great running game and a can’t miss kicker. Three is super impressive on its own, but he didn’t have to put the team on his back for any of the three. However, he was oddly clutch in the fourth quarter. He was generally a mediocre QB, but could just get-it-done at the end of games.

    His best years (07-12) were wasted. Sexy Rexy beat him in the playoffs a couple times, the Steelers I think beat him once, and the Ravens beat him once, and Eli beat him in the SB a couple times.

    The Seahawks one, I mean, come on. He did have to play great and complete a fourth quarter comeback, but the defense literally won that game for him.

    The Falcons one is probably the greatest SB performance of all time.

    The Rams one is just like the first three…a great defense (in the playoffs, not the regular season), a good running game, all he had to do was outplay a dilapidated Rams offense that couldn’t get it going.

    It’s hard to argue with him being GOAT, because he has six rings and that in itself is pretty nuts, but in terms of pure talent, he’s far from the greatest QB to play the game. He’s never struck me as that talented of a QB, he’s just one of the few that’s managed to really put it all together, while having the luxury of always having a solid supporting cast on offense and a rock-solid defense.

  23. I just compare the performance of the 2 quarterbacks in Super Bowls. Brady has put up some crazy stats jn Super Bowls and made absolutely sick throws. He led some game winning drives. Even in losses, 505 yards against Philly, and what could jave been a game winning drive in that first SB against the Giants.

  24. The Lance Armstrong of the NFL. Joe Montana did it when defenses were allowed to hold receivers. Brady has done it with PEDs and league review help along with stolen signals from his coach.

  25. 6 super bowls is incredible. But, only one of them has his name engraved in it, the Falcons one. That was the greatest second-half Super Bowl performance, ever.

    His first three, he played in a great system,
    ———–
    Another stupid “earth must be flat because I believe so”.

    Belichick didn’t even talk to his QB and offense.

    BTW, did you check his supporting casts? would you expect your QB to score 380 pts with that squad? would you expect your QB to score 24 or more in playoff with that squad? would you expect your QB to deliver winning drives with that squad?

    Utterly stupid.

    Drew Brees, 2002, with LaDainian Tomlinson, 333 pts in 16 games

    Drew Brees, 2003, with LaDainian Tomlinson, 313 pts in 16 games.

    Rodgers couldn’t score 380 pts without Jordy Nelson

  26. The Lance Armstrong of the NFL.
    ______

    vancouversportsbro: how did ball boy doctor the balls before he got the needle?

    Obviously you know how to do it, please enlighten us.

  27. logicalvoicesays says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:17 pm
    Tom Brady is the greatest cheater to ever live.
    —————————————————————————
    Except everyone who is capable of understanding 7th grade science disagrees with you.
    Any word on when the NFL is going to share the results of the PSI tests that were done during the 2015 NFL season? Science is factual. Science couldn’t call Brady a cheater so that data had to be hidden from football fans.

  28. Brady: 30 playoff wins, 9 SB appearances, 6 SB wins.

    Peyton Manning and Joe Montana combined: 30 playoff wins, 9 SB appearances, 6 SB wins.

  29. PEYTON IS THE GREATEST. BRADY PLAYED FOR THE GREATEST COACH.
    ——–

    and Peyton is an idiot, as Belichick didn’t talk to his offense on sideline, so his system must be very easy, and Peyton was too stupid to learn.

  30. vancouversportsbro says:
    July 6, 2019 at 10:10 pm
    The Lance Armstrong of the NFL. Joe Montana did it when defenses were allowed to hold receivers. Brady has done it with PEDs and league review help along with stolen signals from his coach.

    ————————————————–
    The slowest running QB in the NFL is now being compared to a guy that was fast enough to win the Tour De France by those who are looking for a reason for all their salty tears.

    Joe Montana did it when receivers put glue on their hands which was against the rules of the NFL.

    It’s funny how every time I watch NFL games where the Patriots are not playing…I notice the coaches of both teams covering their mouths when they talk about signals. As if every team in the league is known to be stealing signals.

  31. I cant argue with 6 super bowls. Its a team sport and you can compare all you want. Manning was a generational talent. The first of his kind. Brady has the talent and the coach. They both are amazing. Rogers is amazing. We watch greatness for 21 weeks.

  32. Why do so many fans insist giving so much credits to a coach who doesn’t talk to his QB and offense, to prove that their favorite QBs are idiots and are not as smart as Pats receivers?

  33. “Its a team sport and you can compare all you want. ”
    —————————————-
    Brady is the GOAT because football is a team sport. Who else can consistently turn average WR into playmakers? who else can turn short n slow WR into playmakers? Who can score 41 and 31 pts in playoff without deep threats? who else can stay on field for 36 min and 39 min so to help his defense? who can get rid of the balls so quickly that makes opponent pass rush completely irrelevant so to help his O-line? ONLY Brady.

  34. So does than mean Terry Bradshaw, who’s tied with Montana with four rings, is automatically the second best QB of all times?
    ———————————–
    Eloquent nonsense.

    Between 2001 and 2006, check the squad Brady had, would you expect your QB to score 380 pts with that squad? would you expect your QB to score 24 or more in playoff with that squad? would you expect your QB to deliver winning drives with that squad?

    Could your QB score 28 pts against LOB? could your QB stay on field for 37 minutes against Falcons? could your QB have played 39 minutes against Chiefs?

  35. It’s like no one watched football before 2000.
    ——————————–
    Those guys sold life insurance in the off season. Totally different player.

  36. Michael Edits says:
    July 6, 2019 at 9:03 pm
    Jim Kelly.

    —-

    In his four Super Bowls, Kelly completed 81 of 145 passes (55%) for 829 yards (207/gm) and two touchdowns, with seven interceptions.

    Dude stunk it up when it mattered most

  37. Look at his comment in context. Pollard grew up in Fort Wayne, Indiana. He went to Purdue. This is a comment from an atypical Colts fanboy. He is making this comment as a biased colts fan, not a football fan or an NFL player. He grew up a Colts/Peyton Manning fan and all of them say the same thing no matter how many Super Bowls Tom will win.

  38. Brady is a great QB. He is both good and very lucky. But he is not the all time best QB.

    As for all those rings: His first SB involved cheating. The Falcons blew a 25 point lead and showcased an epic collapse. His win against the Seahawks is 100% on the Seahawks. Against Carolina, the kicker, Kasey, kicks it out of bounds practically putting Brady in FG range.

    He has had a lot go his way and is a proven winner. But…. he isn’t the best. He is not better than Montana, Manning, Elway, Marino, Brees or Rodgers.

    He has gotten very lucky. That doesn’t take away from his talent. But the ongoing talk of him being the “GOAT” is just ridiculous. Any other team or staff and it’s likely you never would have heard of him.

  39. I think Peyton had a better football mind than Brady does, in the sense that Peyton was his own offensive coordinator.

    But I think Brady just gets results, and you cannot argue with facts. Nine Super Bowl appearances? NINE. You’re talking Bill Russell level of conference dominance, over a decade straight with the bullseye on your back, and still collecting rings. We haven’t seen a QB dominate like this since Otto Graham.

    I’m not a Patriots fan at all, but … there is no longer a question about who the greatest quarterback is.

  40. Brady and Manning have almost identical numbers, and Brady often played with middling weapons and Manning’s unwise front office spent high pick after high pick on weapons instead of building a well-rounded team and counting on the all-time-great QB to elevate the production of his weapons. Also, Manning spent most of his home career on turf, while Brady has spent his entire home career outdoors in New England. Once you adjust for those factors, Brady’s production is clearly superior, which explains Brady’s extra championships. Manning had the MVP because that extra help boosted his stats…would have been terrific even still, but not THAT terrific.

  41. there are decisions made on the field and clutch plays made that not every QB could make.
    ———————————————————————————————————————
    Now that’s setting the bar high. But you’re on the right track. In the history of the NFL, there have been more than a few QBs who could handle the mental portion of the game as well as Brady – more than a few playing now. Sliding a few steps in the pocket, completing the throws – that list is much longer. Scrambling, rolling out, running – even diehard New England fans wouldn’t go there.

  42. I believe Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are the two greatest quarterbacks who ever played the game. Peyton revolutionized the position with his pre-snap adjustment and scheme. Brady is the ultimate trigger puller who execute the game plan perfectly. I won’t use Super Bowl wins as a metric to decide greatness. However, postseason record is important. To me regular season stats and wins are just earning your paycheck and win or lose you still get to play 16 games. Since the postseason is one game elimination process, EVERY game is like the Super Bowl – you lose you go home. A great quarterback is expected to carry the team to the playoff year after year not just someone who had a hot streak in one or two seasons (look at you, Flacco and Eli) that went all the way. Manning and Brady took their respective teams to the playoff almost every season, which speaks for their excellence in longevity and consistency.

    It is in the playoff that I give Brady the edge. Oftentimes Manning carried his team into playoff as the number one seed and playing against the lowest seeded team, the reward for doing well in the regular season. Peyton had NINE first round exits in the playoff! The team entered the postseason as the highest seed whose offense is clearly run by their QB with video game stats playing against a lowly seeded team and he laid an egg NINE times. I really don’t care if he is the system or not. When you are expected to win in the first round and you failed NINE times, I really don’t care what you did in the regular season. The postseason is when you created your legacy. One of the reasons we watch sports is to see how an athlete handles pressure and expectation and how he performs under pressure. Manning came up short more times than we hoped for. What good is the video game stats when entering into crunch time?

    Brady only had two first round exits in the playoff, in 2009 when he just recovered from his ACL injury and against that pesky Rex Ryan team in 2010, probably the most disappointing consider the high expectation. Other than that, Brady’s post season success has been stellar. In short Brady took the team to the playoff more seasons than ANY quarterback in history which speaks for his longevity. Obviously longevity is good only if one can consistently play at a high level otherwise Vinny Testaverde would be in the hall of fame. Brady is consistently excellent year after year.

    ​Do you know that Brady has started more regular season games (267) than Joe Montana and Steve Young started games(139+124=263) combined as 49ers? In two decades from 1980-1999, the 49ers had two Hall of Fame quarterbacks as starters. Montana, drafted in 1979, become a starter in 1980 and then Steve Young took over in 1991 and retired after 1999 season. Brady became a starter in 2001 and up to end of 2018 season, he has played in MORE regular season games and advancing to the playoff MORE times than Montana and Young careers in SF combined and still have more Super Bowls, 6 to 5. Essentially Brady had and still having TWO hall of fame careers and accomplished more than two actual hall of famers. Staggering.

  43. Right Pollard….

    In 18 years, Belichick has never taken a snap in a game. Even if there is a system in NE, there wasn’t one until Brady arrived and there probably would never have been one if Brady hadn’t been there to build it around. Rings aren’t luck. How many rings does Pollard have? Maybe why he doesn’t acknowledge the accomplishment…

  44. Brady just had the fortune to have had the same offensive system basically his whole career… Never really had to go through that struggle of learning new playbook, verbage or system… As long as the other players were where they were suppose to be, he just repeated the play called and executed it.. Having the amount of time he has had in the same system just made it great at executing it by instinct and reflex… Not really ‘the best’ at the position on talent alone… Peyton was an on the field in the game coach and stradigest… Brady is ‘method man’ but Manning was an all around QB!

  45. Playoff record:
    Brady = 30-10
    Manning = 14-13
    Brady has played in 40 postseason games, which = 2.5 more full seasons.
    Brady has played in 9 SBs, which is more than half a regular season in the biggest game in sports on earth. It ain’t close. TB12=GOAT

  46. If he didn’t blow out Brady’s knee, nobody would know who Bernard Pollard is. He was, is, and always will be a dirty player. He knew exactly what he was doing in those circumstances. He knew that tackle from behind on Gronk and landing on the back of a player’s leg while holding his waist as the player continues to run, either takes out the ankle or breaks the fibula. When he drove at Brady’s leg he knew exactly what he was doing. He says he was pushed but when you watch the tape he was not redirected. He drove it his knee pure and simple. it was all part of the strategy of trying to get Brady off his spots because he was unstoppable. Everybody in the league felt this way and everybody was steaming your defense to do the same thing. So don’t lie to us and tell us that he isn’t the best. you were desperate. That’s why you did what you did Pollard. That’s why you’ll always be a dirtbag.

    On a side note, the man has slipped into irrelevancy and is simply trying to get his name back out there and get on the talk show circuit. He must be hurting for money.

  47. Manning might have won more games than he did if they didn’t get caught cheating pumping crowd noise into the RCA dome when the opposing team had the ball. I wonder how many times he actually could have out scored the other team if it wasn’t for that?

  48. I’m an Eagles fan and I think Tom Brady is the greatest QB of all time. Montana, Staubach and some others deserve serious consideration (especially Montana), but no QB has EVER even come CLOSE to duplicating the sustained tenure of dominance that Tom Brady continues to demonstrate. On top of that, he’s done it mostly with a bunch of nobodies. It’s like his career was ripped out of a storybook.

  49. Sorry, the Manning argument by Pollard is SUPER lame. Manning played in a system too. And had better talent at receiver and running back. And one of the all time best centers ever. He was a great talent, it took him quite a long time to be able to overcome BB’s defenses. Once that happened, he got further. Brady is better now than he was in his first 3 SB wins. Manning fell off hard. And yes, rings DO count if you are the guy orchestrating the offense. Brady’s comeback drives are legend in those games. Even the ones he lost. Manning’s second SB was won by a ferocious defense, without a lot of input from him.

  50. Brady is the greatest ever–no question.
    Manning played most his entire career in a gymnasium with perfect conditions, played in a warm weather division, and played on a team investing heavily for Hall of Fame receivers like Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, and others. The Colts problems were on defense where they spent minimally.

    What is Manning’s record when the temp was below freezing?
    The answer is below .500.
    The guy couldn’t produce in adverse conditions.
    Aaron Rodgers is better than Manning, IMO.
    But no one tops Brady–he’s done it in all conditions, variety of mostly pedestrian receivers, and often less than stellar ground game.

  51. All you guys arguments against Brady are utter nonsense. You were saying the exact same things 3 years ago. Since then he’s been to 3 more Super Bowls and won 2. Joe was great, Peyton was great. Neither are the Goat.

  52. Peyton Manning has the record for the most “one and done’s” in NFL playoff history. Makes playoffs and lose in the first game. Nine times! (And no, that isn’t Principal Rooney talking to Ferris’s Mom).

    The system? Belichick came up as a defensive guy. Joe Montana was in the Bill Walsh “system”. Is HE just a “system QB”. Get over it people. It’s case closed.

    And the only thing Bernard Pollard knows anything about is how to intentionally dive head first into someone’s knee with the intent to do damage. Only thing anyone remembers about him.

  53. vaphinfan says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    Most agree.
    ___________________

    Actually kid, most disagree. Just ask Brady’s peers – those QBs in the Hall of Fame. THEY say he is the GOAT. Kellly, Aikman, Tarkenton, Young, Warner, Moon, Theisman and Namath. Plus, throw in Jaworski, Esiason, McNabb, Hasselbeck, and a few others. The truth is most DISAGREE. You stand corrected.

  54. Tom Brady had 14 top 10 defenses. Manning had 5.
    _____________________________
    Add 30-40 pts to total points allowed due to lousy offenses in AFCE, then grade it.

    and tell your QB to play time-consuming offense. That is why Pats could win 3 SB in last 5 years.

  55. Johnny U, with today’s “don’t touch the QB rules,” would be the leader of the pack – without any doubt. Mahomes may be on that road right now.

  56. Pats fans always talk like football isn’t a team game.

    I wonder how many rings Brady would have if he had played under 5 bad to average coaches, instead of the best of all time. I wonder how many one and dones Manning would have had with BB as his coach.

  57. Peyton Manning isn’t even the best-ever Colts QB – that would be Johnny Unitas.

    QBs like Manning, Brady, Favre, Montana all benefited from the 1978 rules changes which decapitated defenses in order to inflate scoring an passing stats.

    Any conversation of best all time QBs has to include QBs like Johnny U., Otto Graham and Roger Staubach.

  58. Peyton Manning threw 3 touchdowns to 5 interceptions in four super bowls with an average passer-rating of 77 in these games. He threw four pick-sixes in 27 playoff games. Brady threw only one pick-6 in 40 playoff games. Brady threw 6 touchdown passes in a playoff game. When did Peyton ever do that? Remember when Peyton threw the game-ending pick-6 against the Saints and another one against the Seahawks? Where were people when Peyton threw 3 touchdowns to 7 interceptions in the 2006 Colts’ post-season?

    Remember when he lost Super Bowl XLVIII 43-8 and in Super Bowl L, had the lowest QBR ever recorded for a quarterback on a super bowl winning team in NFL history? Anyone who would honestly take Peyton Manning over Tom Brady, having watched this guy win his 6th lombardi trophy and convert multiple 3rd down plays in OT against the Chiefs, is just crazy. People make it sound like Brady had the Steel Curtain or Joe Montana’s defenses in his super bowls. His defense gave up over 20 points in multiple games.

  59. Manning, Peyton had numerous great recivers and RBs(Harrison, Faulk, Wayne, Garcon, James, Dallas, D. Thomas, J. Thomas, etc) and still ONLY has 4 AFC championships and 2 SB wins

    Brady, Other than Gronk and Welker Tom has had a whole bunch of nobodies and has 9 AFC Championships and 6 SB wins!

    Sure a SB is a team accomplishment but when the QB raises the level of a team of mediocre talent to be able to compete and win those SBs isn’t he doing a lot more than the QB that starts off with with top tier talent?

  60. The Patriots have played in 11 Superbowls.

    They have been behind or tied in the fourth quarter of every single one.

  61. The Patriots have played in 11 Superbowls.

    Their defense has blown a lead in every single one.

  62. Let’s do some comparisons. Since people tend to discredit Brady’s first three Super Bowls and calling him a “game manager” who was in a run heavy offense carried by a stellar defense, what if we simply delete those three trophies and have him start his career in 2005. And we can compare how he does in a ten healthy season time span to other generational talents like Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers.

    Let’s compare Brady to Peyton from 2005 to 2015, the year Manning retires. Both had a lost year due to injury, Brady to knee injury in 2008 and Manning to neck injury in 2011. So they had 10 healthy seasons in that time span.

    2005 – 2015 (10 starting seasons)
    Manning: 3 MVP, playoff 11-8, 4 AFCCC games, 4 SB games, 2 SB wins
    Brady: 2 MVP, playoff 13-9, 7 AFCCC games, 3 SB games, 1 SB win
    Edge: Manning

    Manning seems to have the edge on paper because of the extra MVP and Super Bowl win but we all know that last SB was carried by the Broncos’ dominant defense in 2013. Brady had more seasons of deep playoff runs. Both had a record breaking season that ended in SB loss, in 2007 for Brady and 2013 for Manning. Both are comparable in terms of accomplishment but the edge goes to Manning. Again, this is not counting Brady’s 3 early Super Bowl successes and his later years of appearing in 3 straight SB and winning 2 more rings.

    Let’s compare Brady to Aaron Rodgers from 2009 to 2018 in a 10 season time span. Rodgers became a starter in 2008 when Brady was lost to knee injury. 2009 seems like a good starting point up to their last season in 2018.

    2009 – 2018 (10 starting seasons)
    Rodgers: 2 MVP, playoff 9-7, 3 NFCCC games, 1 SB games, 1 SB win
    Brady: 2 MVP, playoff 16-7, 8 AFCCC games, 5 SB games, 3 SB wins.
    Edge: Brady

    Here in terms of accomplishment, Brady’s record speaks for itself. He has played in more playoff games, appear in more Super Bowls and winning more rings. And he’s still winning in his 40s in a supposedly decline passing his prime. The man keeps racking up wins.

    In summary the only QB who could give Brady a run for his money is Peyton Manning and this is disregarding Brady’s first 3 rings and his last 2 rings. What Brady is doing in his later year is nothing short of amazing. In total, Brady has the edge. This exercise is simply to prove the naysayers complaining about Brady’s early success. Take any chunk of 10 year time span in Brady’s career and it will be comparable to any great quarterback careers. Even if we don’t count those first 4 years, he can still qualified to be called the greatest or at least one of the greatest quarterbacks who ever played the game.

    If Brady goes on to win one more Super Bowl, his first three rings will be inconsequential and the later four rings not only will equal to Montana’s four and has more conference championship and SB appearances than any QB in history. Just think about that.

  63. Patriots DVOA in Tom Brady SB appearance seasons:
    2001 – 13
    2003 – 2
    2004 – 7
    2007 – 11
    2011 – 30
    2014 – 12
    2016 – 16
    2017 – 31
    2018 – 16

    So much for this laughable “top ten defenses” thing.

  64. Peyton Manning was drafted two years earlier than Brady and was the starter right away and Brady became a starter in his second year. Manning basically had a 3 years earlier start over Brady. So now that Brady has played 3 more years after Manning retired in 2015, he has caught up on Manning in terms of career starts in regular season. Manning started 265 games and Brady started 267 games, both in 17 healthy seasons. This is a good year to compare the two. Their stats in terms of yards and touchdowns are comparable with slight edge to Manning. Similar QB ratings too with slight edge to Brady. Brady takes care of the ball better and has less interceptions with 171 over Manning’s 251. Both had record breaking or MVP level seasons like Brady’s 2007 & 2010 and Manning’s 2004 & 2013. Basically their regular season stats are similar with Manning having more seasons of offensive juggernaut, hence the title “greatest regular season quarterback.” Don’t forget Brady’s career isn’t over and if Brady plays one or two more healthy seasons, he will surpass Manning’s stats in every category.

    By now, Brady’s postseason success surpassed everyone in the Super Bowl era. So the question to Bernard Pollard is that if their regular season is similar but Brady has overwhelming better record than Manning in postseason AND Brady is still playing, should the edge goes to Brady? The fact that Brady never had a star receiver other than Randy Moss for couple years and Gronk came on the scene after 2010. Brady had to deal with a revolving door of mediocre to solid receivers through out his career. The simple fact that Brady owns the record of throwing touchdowns to 71 different players tells you what he had to deal with. He never had the luxury of hall of fame receivers like Manning or Montana. And don’t tell me about his defense. The year he went to Super Bowl for the 2011 season, his defense was ranked 31st and he almost won the whole thing.

  65. Scrambling, rolling out, running – even diehard New England fans wouldn’t go there.
    ————-

    Correct. Scrambling and running are definitely not TB’s strengths.

    But he doesn’t get enough credit for standing tall in the pocket, does he?

    We have seen him rolling out plenty of times.

  66. Any conversation of best all time QBs has to include QBs like Johnny U., Otto Graham and Roger Staubach.
    —————————————————————————————————————————————
    The conversation has to include Unitas and Graham, no way, no how on Staubach. Manning above Unitas and Graham in this grouping, all three better football players than Brady. The pro-Brady bunch – yeah, yeah – ignore that Tom Brady/New England Patriots is their entire argument for his accomplishments- the ‘do your job’ Patriot way.

  67. Both QBs have turned ordinary receivers into stars.

    When it comes to postseason success, whoever had better WRs hardly matters. Whoever had the better coach makes all the difference in the world.

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t argue chess/checkers and say how far BB is ahead of the rest of the league, and then argue that Brady would have 6 rings (or even half that) with or without him.

    Brady may be better than Manning – but it’s not because he has a better postseason record or more rings.

  68. tyelee says, 7-7-19, 12:45am:
    “Brady just had the fortune to have had the same offensive system basically his whole career… Never really had to go through that struggle of learning new playbook, verbage or system… As long as the other players were where they were suppose to be, he just repeated the play called and executed it.. Having the amount of time he has had in the same system just made it great at executing it by instinct and reflex… Not really ‘the best’ at the position on talent alone…”

    ===================

    You’re talking like Brady played with the same offensive players year after year. Do you know his team had the most player turnover every year? The fact that Brady owns the record of throwing to 71 different reveivers tells you how versatile he is. He’s certainly not a throwing robot like a jugs machine! Also you mentioned same offensive system so tell me which one? The one that’s run heavy with play action or high flying deep balls to Randy Moss or the two tight end set with Gronk & Hernandez or slot receiver dink & dunk? So, which one? What magical system that could game plan the Super Bowl to fall behind 28-3 and then to tie it before regulation and then to win it in overtime? The system did all of that? The name of that system is called Tom Brady!

  69. People play a sport and fans watch a sport for their team to win a championship. Of course we should judge players based on championships. It’s the only goal that matters.

  70. Not that Brady is fit, but he’s playing at a high level post age 40. Once Peyton got up there, he missed some opportunities- one of them against my Ravens when he tried too hard to make something happen and got picked by Corey Graham to end it. A win would have set up Peyton/Brady and possibly anther SB but Manning, with an excellent team around him, was rickety that entire season.

  71. Since people tend to discredit Brady’s first three Super Bowls and calling him a “game manager”
    ————————————–
    Fans in general don’t realize how great Brady was between 2001 and 2006.

    Without a top tier receiver, sometime without even a 2nd tier receiver, it is unbelievable that he could score 380 points with that squad, let alone scoring 24 or more in playoff against good defenses and delivering winning drives in SB.

  72. When all is said and done, we will see who between Manning and Brady has more teammates and coaches in the HOF. Then we will know for certain which one had a better surrounding cast.

  73. When the only argument you have against Brady is the “What if” game, you’ve already lost. Stick to Fantasy Football as you can’t handle reality.

  74. patsfan4lifesbchamps:

    Who will be the most expensive Brady have in coming season? who will be the most expensive O-lineman to protect Brady?

    Brady made Belichick a great coach.

  75. mutantclover says:
    July 7, 2019 at 11:57 am

    If Brady had anyone to throw to in the 2006 AFCCG, Peyton would have 1 ring and Brady would have 7. Let that sink in for a minute.

    ———————————

    If Belichick had fielded even a mediocre defense for about 5 years, Eli would have 0 rings, and Brady would have 8. Let that sink in for a minute.

  76. daringhart13 says:
    July 6, 2019 at 11:06 pm
    Brady is a great QB. He is both good and very lucky. But he is not the all time best QB.

    As for all those rings: His first SB involved cheating. The Falcons blew a 25 point lead and showcased an epic collapse. His win against the Seahawks is 100% on the Seahawks. Against Carolina, the kicker, Kasey, kicks it out of bounds practically putting Brady in FG range.

    He has had a lot go his way and is a proven winner. But…. he isn’t the best. He is not better than Montana, Manning, Elway, Marino, Brees or Rodgers.

    He has gotten very lucky. That doesn’t take away from his talent. But the ongoing talk of him being the “GOAT” is just ridiculous. Any other team or staff and it’s likely you never would have heard of him.
    ______________
    Luck? That’s why you’ve got? Luck?

    Was he lucky when Tyree made that ridiculous helmet catch? After he drove the team down for the lead and the defense gave it away. Was he lucky when Walker dropped the game clincher, to again watch the defense give it away. He is two plays away from having 8 rings and you call that luck?

    And I’m tired of reading about how he played no role in the first 3. It was just Vinatieri and the defense. No one remembers when the Rams tied it up in 2001 and Madden (and everyone else for that matter) thought the pats should take a knee and go to overtime. And Brady easily walked down the field and put them in position for the game winner. I’m sure that was luck right?

  77. So it makes news when some nobody pops up to declare Tom Brady isn’t the best ever. Keep trawling around and I’m sure we can find a few other fools to say it too

  78. Brock osweiler won games with the Broncos defense… Osweiler… Osweiler.That defense was great the whole time manning was there… 1 ring. It’s a team sport.. So are baseball, basketball, and hockey but in each sport the greatest rise. That’s where they get there “nicknames”.
    You keep your “probowl QBs” that can throw a ball 90 yards into a Dixie cup (you tube sensations can do that to) Brady plays for SBs.

    Which is it.. Anyone can play in that “system” or BB sucked before Brady?

    I mean.. Brock Osweiler.. and someone said “look what manning did with the Broncos”. Hilarious.

  79. tylawspick6 says:

    July 6, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    He has a good point. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.

    =========================================

    Uh, Belichick as Pats head coach is only 18-19 with other QBs starting. And 33 of those 37 games were started by a QB who went to a Pro Bowl.

    Some “system”.

  80. vaphinfan says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:46 pm
    Most agree. No one knows how much cheating has been done for him to accomplish what he has. Never won a super bowl without a top 10 defense, Super Bowls given to him by refs, and can’t complete anything other than a slant or out.
    ========================
    “Never won a super bowl without a top 10 defense”

    You might wanna fact check that. I could point out you’re wrong but it might sink in better if you do the work yourself.

  81. Between Manning, Marino, Elway and Brady only one of them has less than 225 career INTs (by quite a bit). Take away all the other accomplishments and that’s still a pretty good way to measure QBs on an individual basis. Personally, I think Manning was the most talented QB I’ve ever seen. But it’s hard to argue against what Brady has accomplished even on a personal basis. He’s on pace to surpass Manning in every statistical category by the time he retires. And that doesn’t even include the post-season.

  82. Some would say that Manning would have achieved more in his career if he’d played for Patriots coach Bill Belichick. But Brady did, and Manning didn’t.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    So if BB were on the sidelines for Peyton’s SBs, you are saying he would not have thrown 3TDs to 5INTs with a 77 QB rating? In the biggest games on the biggest stages, Peyton was a below average QB. No coaching change would have rectified that.

  83. Peyton really was a great QB. It took him too many years to figure out how to win and for his ego to be checked to the point where he would do what it took to win. But he did figure it out.

    Brady v Manning was the greatest QB rivalry that football has seen probably ever.

    Since Peyton retired Brady has been to all 3 Super Bowls and won 2. Peyton was really the only major foil to the Patriots machine in the AFC. With him gone they have rolled.

  84. Blessed, that’s a narrow focus for the argument you’re trying to make. Most QBs play below their averages in the SB – because they’re playing better defenses and coaching. The greatest offense of all time scored 14 in 2007.

    No one will ever convince me that BB, a true coaching genius, would only have 2 rings if Manning was his QB instead of Brady.

    I still think Brady is the GOAT, but I don’t think PM is that far behind.

  85. Blessed, that’s a narrow focus for the argument you’re trying to make. Most QBs play below their averages in the SB – because they’re playing better defenses and coaching. The greatest offense of all time scored 14 in 2007.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Of course its a narrow focus, but so is suggesting Brady is a system QB because of the one season where he was injured while ignoring the other 17. PM was a great QB and definitely in the top 3-5 in my opinion, but although narrow focus, its tough to call someone the greatest of all time with SB numbers like that. There’s regression and there’s a free fall. 3 TDs to 5 INTs with a 77 QB rating for a QB like Manning is a free fall.

  86. billsrthefuture says:
    July 8, 2019 at 11:57 am
    Blessed, that’s a narrow focus for the argument you’re trying to make. Most QBs play below their averages in the SB – because they’re playing better defenses and coaching. The greatest offense of all time scored 14 in 2007.

    No one will ever convince me that BB, a true coaching genius, would only have 2 rings if Manning was his QB instead of Brady.

    I still think Brady is the GOAT, but I don’t think PM is that far behind.
    ————-
    What about Peyton’s greatest offense ever he had in DEN? Historical, #1 still today I believe. Remember their match up against a good defense in the SB? He got throttled by Seattle, like dismantled hard. Brady goes to SB very next year against same Legion of Boom defense and leads team from two 14 point deficits and the win. Manning would’ve folded like we’ve seen him do already, just facts. Belichick doesn’t work with the offense so how does that change what Manning would do on the big stage on the offensive side of the ball?

    As someone else said, if you’re playing the what if game you’ve already lost the argument. Brady lit the league on fire with Moss for a season. Imagine what Brady would’ve done with Marvin Harrison and then Reggie Wayne as his #1 WR for his whole career? Maybe 13 SBs? I mean why not right?

  87. Brady didn’t face the same LOB. That entire unit was either hurt or on the sidelines by Q4, as well as their best pass rusher.

  88. tylawspick6 says:
    July 6, 2019 at 8:42 pm
    He has a good point. Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.

    ————-

    I am sure you can create a long list of players, including QBs, that have done terribly in BB’s system.

  89. las0023 says:
    July 7, 2019 at 2:55 am
    Tom Brady had 14 top 10 defenses. Manning had 5.

    5 40 Rate This
    The DVOA stats say otherwise

    but lets pretend you are right

    In those 9 years where Manning had a weak D, where do you think the Colts spent their draft picks and money?

  90. tylawspick6 says: “Anyone does great in BB’s system, Brady just happened to stay in it the longest.”

    ============

    If athletic ability is just based on “system”, why bother to play the game. Why not just decide a winner on the chalk board based on how clever someone can draw Xs and Os? I’m sure BB’s reading of Sun Tzu’s The Art Of War comes in handy.

  91. Belichick’s “system” as a HC is 55-61 without Brady with one playoff berth in 7 seasons and a 1-1 playoff record.

    With Brady his “system” over 17 seasons is 207-60 with 16 playoff berths, 16 division titles, 13 AFC Championship games, 9 Superbowls, 6 Rings and a 30-10 playoff record.

    Only an imbecile like Pollard would conclude it’s the “system”.

  92. The Mel Blount rule… Look it up. While your at it check to see when they changed the rules about hitting QBs in the head or the “in the grasp rule”. Quit using the rules were different excuse when you do not even know what the rules were.

  93. If.. Isn’t that what the losers always say, trying to explain defeat with hypotheticals…. If I had wings I would be able to fly said the ostrich.. But you do have wings… No I mean if I had better and bigger wings.

  94. Unitas was good and so was his backup Morrall, who by the way stepped in for Unitas and won the MVP in 1968.He also took over for an injured Unitas in the Superbowl against Dallas, when Unitas got hurt.. .then this same QB stepped in for griese and was the highest rated passers in 1972..you know, the perfect season, he went 11-0.. Guess Unitas was a “system” QB along with griese.

  95. Non athletic Brady = 6 lombardies
    Any athletic QB = not that much combined

    Which would you rather have?

    Isn’t pollard a fish? Oops, I was thinking of pollack… My bad.

  96. No “ifs” from me. I was responding to a claim that Brady faced the same LOB as Manning.

    He didn’t. Just a fact.

  97. Peyton Manning is no longer in the argument. His accomplishments are insignificant when compared to his master, Tom Brady. If Manning was half as good as Brady, he’d have at least one more ring.

  98. Flashy wide receivers don’t win Super Bowls. Defenses do. If Belichick was paying for top receivers they wouldn’t have as good a defense and would have won less Super Bowls.

    ————————-

    xxsweepthelegxx says:

    Brady lit the league on fire with Moss for a season. Imagine what Brady would’ve done with Marvin Harrison and then Reggie Wayne as his #1 WR for his whole career? Maybe 13 SBs? I mean why not right?

  99. When you try to credit individual players with team accomplishments – without applying critical thinking, part of which involves hypotheticals – you don’t have an argument.

    ————————-

    switchwitch59 says:
    July 7, 2019 at 8:17 pm
    When the only argument you have against Brady is the “What if” game, you’ve already lost. Stick to Fantasy Football as you can’t handle reality.

  100. bullcharger says:
    July 8, 2019 at 11:31 am
    Peyton really was a great QB. It took him too many years to figure out how to win and for his ego to be checked to the point where he would do what it took to win. But he did figure it out.

    Brady v Manning was the greatest QB rivalry that football has seen probably ever.

    Since Peyton retired Brady has been to all 3 Super Bowls and won 2. Peyton was really the only major foil to the Patriots machine in the AFC. With him gone they have rolled.

    Brady- Manning (indy) faced off 12 times. Manning won 33% of those games. He faced Brady 3 times in the playoffs. He won 33% of those as well.

    Not just the GOAT, GOAT by a mile.

    Sincerely,

    Former Believer that Joe Cool was the GOAT

  101. las0023 says:

    July 9, 2019 at 10:58 am

    Flashy wide receivers don’t win Super Bowls. Defenses do. If Belichick was paying for top receivers they wouldn’t have as good a defense and would have won less Super Bowls.

    =============================================

    Brady era Pats defenses have been mostly decent to really good but by no means were any of them amazing. There were some truly bad defenses mixed in there too, and yet the Pats still consistently were winning 12 games and getting to conference title games and Super Bowls.

    And if the 2006 Pats had a better WR1 than Reche Caldwell, they are in the Super Bowl ahead of the Colts. Pats inconsistent receiving corps cost them a Super Bowl shot that year.

  102. Wrong. Last time Brady beat Peyton in the playoffs was 2003.

    ———————————–

    Lemmy Aksyadis says:

    Brady- Manning (indy) faced off 12 times. Manning won 33% of those games. He faced Brady 3 times in the playoffs. He won 33% of those as well.

  103. Ask the only guy to have snapped the ball to both guys – Koppen. His take? – Brady wins the argument.
    Why?
    Manning called the pass play audibles, Koppen had to decipher and call the plays when run D was on the field.
    Brady called the play changes for both.

    Brady wins.

  104. No “ifs” from me. I was responding to a claim that Brady faced the same LOB as Manning.

    He didn’t. Just a fact.
    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

    And Richard Sherman ended the Broncos/Seahawks SB on crutches. Were guys banged up in the Pats/Seahawks SB, of course. Are guys banged up every SB? Better believe it. Brady did face the same LOB, injured or not. Just like the Seahawks faced the same Pats defense, even though Hightower was out.

  105. Same names but just the eye test after watching the rout against the Broncos should make clear how different they were. Sherman had 1 usable arm, Chancellor a torn MCL and Thomas a dislocated shoulder. Lane wasn’t as integral but his replacement was beaten for the game winning TD. Most importantly was the absence of Cliff Avril for the 4th quarter. No pass rush which allowed Brady to wait in the pocket and pick apart the wounded secondary.

    ———————————

    blessedunliketherest says:

    And Richard Sherman ended the Broncos/Seahawks SB on crutches. Were guys banged up in the Pats/Seahawks SB, of course. Are guys banged up every SB? Better believe it. Brady did face the same LOB, injured or not. Just like the Seahawks faced the same Pats defense, even though Hightower was out.

  106. Six rings.

    Does your team have more? Yeah that’s what I thought. Take a seat boy and know your place.

    All hail the World Champion Patriots!

  107. William Lee says:
    July 7, 2019 at 8:29 pm
    patsfan4lifesbchamps:

    Who will be the most expensive Brady have in coming season? who will be the most expensive O-lineman to protect Brady?

    Brady made Belichick a great coach.

    ——
    Belichick was already a great coach.

  108. omeletpants says:
    July 6, 2019 at 10:31 pm
    PEYTON IS THE GREATEST. BRADY PLAYED FOR THE GREATEST COACH.

    —-
    PEDton wouldn’t have won a single ring with Belichick as coach. Neither would Rodgers. Completely incompatible together.

  109. 6 > 2

    Pollard is dead wrong. Don’t get me wrong, Manning was legit HoF QB. However, Brady outdid him by a pretty good margin. He continued to win with different groups of receivers. Almost went to Super Bowl 41 with no-name receivers.

    The Brady/Manning debate has been over since 2015. Kinda came back to life after Manning got his 2nd ring (though it was mainly Von Miller and the defense and less of Manning), but got shut down for good after Brady got his 5th ring.

  110. internettoughguy69 says:
    July 6, 2019 at 10:04 pm

    His best years (07-12) were wasted. Sexy Rexy beat him in the playoffs a couple times, the Steelers I think beat him once, and the Ravens beat him once, and Eli beat him in the SB a couple times.

    ————————-

    Rex Ryan only beat the Patriots once in the playoffs. The Steelers and Patriots didn’t play each other in the playoffs during that span (Brady is 3-0 against them in the playoffs). The Ravens beat them twice.

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