Pair of phantom calls on Trey Flowers delivers late victory for Green Bay

AP

The Lions had plenty of opportunities to win Monday night’s game, but they had too many potential touchdowns become field goals. Still, it was a pair of phantom penalties on Detroit defensive lineman Trey Flowers that helped the Packers eliminate a 10-point deficit.

The first, an illegal hands to the face foul that replay review showed clearly wasn’t, wiped out a third-down sack and kept alive the fourth-quarter drive that cut the deficit from 22-13 to 22-20. The second, another illegal hands to the face call on Flowers, gave Green Bay a fresh set of downs in the red zone and allowed them to burn the remaining 1:36 off the clock before kicking the game-winning field goal, denying the Lions a chance to win it with a late field goal of their own.

Both decisions were heavily criticized by Booger McFarland of ESPN, with rules expert John Parry being more diplomatic but nevertheless agreeing that Flowers’ hand did not stray far enough up the shoulder pads of Packers left tackle David Bakhtiari to constitute illegal hands to the face. The failures underscore the potential value of replay review initiated by coach’s challenge for anything and everything, a device that Patriots coach Bill Belichick, the mentor of Lions coach Matt Patricia, has long advocated.

With or without replay review, these are calls that need to be gotten right in real time. Which brings back into focus the possibility of a video official, who would (as we’ve proposed numerous times over the years) operate as a member of the officiating crew and who would participate in the first look decision-making process, telling the referee (for example) that Flowers did not have his hand in the head or neck area of Bakhtiari in either case, urging the flag to be picked up.

However the league handles it, the league must bridge the gap between the images we see in HD or 4K at home and the flashes and blurs that middle-aged-and-older officials wearing spandex see with the naked eye while primarily trying to avoid being trampled by young, large, fast men wearing armor. The proliferation of legalized gambling underscores the need for zealously ensuring the integity of outcome and the integrity of the final score.

Given the amount of money that the NFL stands to earn from the spread of permissible wagering, some of that revenue must be devoted to addressing this issue. Coincidentally, owners meet this week; this growing problem with officiating should be at the top of their agenda, because it’s the biggest threat their game currently faces.

267 responses to “Pair of phantom calls on Trey Flowers delivers late victory for Green Bay

  1. Those plays decided the game including the refs inability to see the Packers commit pass interference.

    You can’t blame this on a complicated rule book. The refs outright tanked the game for the Packers. Phantom calls on the Lions and missed calls on the Packers.

    If a person wanted to rig a game, this is how they would do it.

  2. I’ve been watching the NFL since the early 50’s…in the last 20 years, the officiating has gotten so awful as to be unwatchable, and the calls ALWAYS go against the Lions (home or away, it doesn’t matter)…I cannot think of one game where questionable calls were favorable to them when the game was on the line, and the number of games where the officials made late calls which caused them to lose are legion (the most egregious: the picked-up flag in the playoff game in Dallas, followed by flagrant uncalled repeated holding of Suh; the Calvin Johnson redefinition of a catch; Rodgers getting the phantom facemask penalty right before the untimed hail mary; tonight’s three beauties)…ok, I’m done…NFL advertisers and networks: one set of eyeballs lost…(lest anyone think I’m talking through my hat, when the Lords of Baseball fomented a players’ strike through collusion in 1994, I didn’t watch baseball for 10 years)…

  3. Average cost for a ticket to tonight’s Packers game was $107 to see officials decide the game. The team that won didn’t win. Safe bet that the NFL league office had more people counting the money than there were worried about the integrity of the game. 😂

  4. Yep it’s an obvious conspiracy! And the team the league is conspiring against is minisoda! The league has a lifetime referendum to keep minisoda from winning anything other than the off season championship! Talk of conspiracies in the NFL is for all you narrow minded twits that still believe Trump colluded with Putin in spite of what the Mueller report said!

  5. I definitely agree that practically any penalty should be reviewable. It won’t slow down the game because a team only gets two challenges, and a third one if one of the challenges is successful, same as it is currently.

  6. There were several, make that numerous, calls this week that were egregious. These calls tonight were outrageous. It could mean the difference between the Lions making the playoffs or not.

    “However the league handles it, the league MUST bridge the gap between the images we see in HD or 4K at home and the flashes and blurs that MIDDLE-AGED-AND-OLDER officials wearing spandex see with the naked eye while PRIMARILY TRYING TO AVOID BEING TRAMPLED by young, large, fast men wearing armor. The proliferation of legalized gambling underscores the need for zealously ensuring the integrity of outcome and the integrity of the final score.”

    I think that paragraph says it all.

  7. We the world knows refs cheated for the Packers. On the other hand, Packers fans would definitely take the cheating and proud for the winning. Those refs deserved to be fine big time.

  8. Packer fan here. And it’s hard to feel good about this one.

    Seems like the officiating gets worse every year…

  9. Florio it won’t happen, but someone needs to look at that fourth quarter as a whole. Would anyone in their right mind ever bet on an NFL game again?

  10. Trey Flowers the Patriot gets a sack and QB pressure against Arron Rodgers.

    Trey Flowers the Lion gets two illegal hand to the face penalty flags called against him, because he’s on the Lions

  11. Calls like that make the game look rigged. It’s a bad visual for the NFL, not to mention how it attacks the very integrity it’s trying to portray.

    Have to get calls like that right. One way or another.

  12. Who would have thought that refs would be the one’s who killed the goose that laid the golden eggs?
    Whoever that umpire was should not work an NFL game again. You can blow calls. You can’t ruin the perception of fairness. That happened tonight.

  13. Both calls were bad and from what I have seen watching games this season, the officials have never been this bad in either making bad calls or missing penalties that should have been called.

  14. Get over it Florio. Lots of bad calls go against lots of teams including GB in this game. Your bias is showing

  15. If you want computers to play the game, then go to the arcade. If you want humans to play the game, then humans should officiate the game.

  16. I don’t understand why the officiating crew doesn’t include an official upstairs watching the same replays that the TV audience sees, who can immediately call-down to the ref to negate bad penalty calls in real time. That technology has been in place for several years.

  17. Those calls were bogus but Green Bay did a great job at holding the Lions to field goals all game. That game could have gotten out of hand but the defense really stepped up after a shaky start. The packers shouldn’t have been in this game at all, regardless of the calls. They have nothing at the wide receiver position and can’t keep winning like this. Gotta give credit for Lazard stepping up but he barely made that touchdown catch, that was just a vintage aaron rodgers throw. Rodgers had to overcome a lot in this game and had very little help from the players around him. Jones dropped a td. Worthless Graham dropped a TD. I knew after last season this team needed two solid offseasons to become contenders and that’s probably what Gudenkust thought as well. Now the question is, since t he team is 5-1 and is looking good, is he going to stick with the half way through a rebuild philosophy or make a move and bring in wide receiver help to put this team over the top

  18. No one is surprised by this. We just get these calls. It’s wrong. And we know it.

  19. The 2nd call didn’t matter. The first one who cares. Both teams got away with plenty of penalties. Detroit’s problem was not being able to score touchdowns. The Packers practically gift wrapped a W for the lions. If you get those kinds of gifts and can’t win, it isn’t because of one questionable call in the game.

  20. Unbelievable. If we hadn’t seen it so many times before it would be. But this one, on national TV Monday night football, may be the most glaring example. When all anybody can talk about after the game is the repeated obvious blown calls in the most critical of situations? Yea, the league has a problem.

  21. I didnt care who won, but to blatantly miss calls in crucial situations is unacceptable as a fan of the NFL! WHERE ARE THEIR FINES? THEIR SUSPENSIONS? Granted, the Packers were down several players, however the Lions had every opportunity to win the game as well. A division game like this and two penalties really decided the game, 3 if ya count the no call on the PI that should have been on Green Bay.

    It comes down to money folks, see Detriot is in a bigger market but Green Bay has this small town vibe.Like the game of football was invented there. Who sells more jerseys online or in the mall? Nope it’s not the Lions, catch my drift? I’ve said it for years the NFL wants a Brady vs Rodgers Superbowl.

    If the officiating has to give it a little nudge in the right way, it will. Same old song and dance, Lions will complain to the NFL, NFL will see unrefutable evidence of no hands to the face, Lions get an apologetic letter from the NFL. TIME IS RUNNING OUT! Bradys getting close to retiring right?

  22. The first actually happened. The second almost did but was a bad call.. But if you’re so strong you push someone up by their jersey and force your hand into their throat, the head is going to go backwards and it’s going to be called. It’s unfortunate that it was called and it had such a drastic outcome on the game.

  23. Mike,

    I realize that I am writing this immediately after another frustrating Detroit Lions loss and I realize the Lions are a team that has lost a lot in my lifetime (last playoff win was when I was in high school). That being said, why does it feel like the Lions get “shorted” during crucial times? (remember when Golden Tate had the touchdown for the win, but they reviewed it, said no touchdown and then a 10 second run off ended the game without another play). How does the NFL explain this? They just let it run through the media cycle and then people move on. Not right.

    I also realize that the fact that I am angry is good for the NFL because it shows I still care, but I’m getting to the point where I don’t anymore. I’ve reflected on this before and I am not sure if I am growing less interested in the NFL because the Lions have failed to be good for so long or because I am more tired of the refs not getting things right for the Lions

    It’s likely a combination of both. Why won’t the owners and GM call out the league?

    So really, why should I continue to care? I think the only reason I am currently continuing is because I’ve spent so much of my life watching football that if I walk away now I would feel like what I’ve been doing for 25 years was a mistake. Maybe I don’t want to admit that I wasted that much of my time in life. That being said, at some point you have to cut your losses. Maybe now is the time.

    Would welcome any of your thoughts.

  24. Ok so the rationale for improving the refereeing is because of what has been for many decades illegal – gambling. How about getting it right in order not to get the coach fired or for having the wrong team go to the Superbowl (last year) or because the game needs to be officated correctly otherwise we might as well call it WWF. I like having the official in the stands with a direct mike to the ref. But that will never happen. And we cannot have the game slowed down too much. The other option is to get rid of all replay and have the games officated and whatever happens happens. Because micromanaging the game down to the ball spot and whether or not his knee hit the ground before the ball broke the plane etc etc. The Lions first touchdown probably wasnt according to both the camera angles and one linesman and the linnie that called the TD was screened by the players. Was it illegal hands to the face or was it defensive holding – he did grab the guys shoulder pads and twisted it upwards.

  25. But I’ve always thought the same thing Florio has thought–and i thought it before I heard florio say it.

    Soooooo many of these problems would be solved if the NFL just put a freakin ref in the booth who can watch every play on replay that we all can and simply radio down to the on field officials telling them when to pick up a flag or throw one. It would take very little time away from the game (way way way less than challenges) and would eliminate bogus calls like hands to the face and roughing the passers where there was no roughing the passer. This is such a simple solution and I have got to wonder if the NFL is just too cheap to pay another guy to be a ref in a booth, because the idea makes sense in every way imaginable.

  26. The first one was a good call (Flowers caught the top of the face mask when executing a rip move). Second one was bad. There were a lot of bad calls throughout. Each team benefited at one point or another from these blown calls. Doesn’t excuse poor officiating, though.

  27. This is just business as usual for the Packers. They should be 3-3 on the season if they didn’t have the refs in their back pocket as usual.

  28. Whether the NFL is fixed for gambling purposes or not is inconsequential at this point. What is of consequence is there are a lot of fans who believe it is. Perception is reality.

  29. Absolutely ridiculous. The NFL should be embarrassed. Shame on the NFL….the Lions got absolutely robbed tonight. Regardless of your allegiance this is not a good thing for the NFL……refs determining outcomes of games!

  30. This is so WWE. What’s next? Someone from the opposing team run onto the field and hitting Stafford with a metal chair?

  31. As a Packer fan the officiating was horrible. But, my question is why didn’t Patricia throw a challenge flag on the obvious PI call on Redmond. If he does and he would win it changes the complexion of the game.

  32. NO Packers fan ANYWHERE will admit those calls shouldn’t have been made!
    They will NEVER admit that without them, one drive would have been DEAD and GB would have been forced to punt, instead of scoring a TD

    Typical fictional “Packers Magic”
    The MOST OVERRATED, and FRAUDULENT Franchise in sports history continues to win with B.S. calls and a league that turns a blind eye!

  33. Detroit had one legitimate playoff chance in the last 50 years. It was simply taken away from them by the NFL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=240I9sOqrAE. I’m addicted to the NFL, but I loathe the NFL. Nights like this remind you that the big money coastal elites will always have it over the working people in fly over country.

  34. How about this: “Video evidence negates the penalty, it’s fourth down.” How freaking hard is that?

  35. I’m all for a video ref that corrects bogus calls made on the field, but it would turn into the same crap as the PI challenge. They would never buzz in and change a call because they wouldn’t want to show up the ref on the field.

    I don’t find it unbelievable that they fix certain games. Hate to say it, but after you watch some of the stuff they are pulling, it is far from impossible. I never bought into that before, but I’m coming around. I would go so far as to say that, if the country wasn’t in such turmoil, the government should look into the NFL, and their “practices”.

  36. More and more it seems like the NFL does not want to fix this because it really really really does appear that some games (especially games involving the Packers) are FIXED.

  37. Penalties and bad officiating are going to kill the NFL far quicker than any concussion or player safety issues. I think that’s the biggest problem in this sport. The games can be predictable with bad calls, referees are deciding games and not the athletes who are training year round their entire lives to play in these games.

  38. It’s clear that the NFL is no different than the WWE. Roger Goodell is the NFL’s Vince McMahon. He and his minions like Alberto Riveron have already determined who will win the games. Much like Vince might choose Roman Reigns and Brock Lesnar to meet in Wrestlemania, Roger has decided that it will be a Packers-Patriots Super Bowl. I didn’t think things could get worse after last year’s Rams-Saints debacle, but this year is even worse. The NFL is a joke and is now unwatchable.

  39. Former Patriot coach Matt Patricia losing a game due to officiating heavily favoring his opponent. He must be thinking “so that’s how that feels. No wonder everyone hates the Pats so much.”

  40. Replay reviews won’t work because Riveron would’ve upheld the calls anyway, despite indisputable evidence that the calls were incorrect, just like we’ve seen with the pass interference challenges.

  41. Dont forget the phantom PF call on Lions in first half to give GB points or missed PI on Marvin Jones. The ref are getting worse.

  42. I’m born and raised a Packer Backer, bleed green and gold and all that. That wasn’t hands to the face on either call. The ticky tacky PI has been let go all season but the hands to the face was terrible. However, I don’t know why you would call for more replay. The NFL has already proven with the PI replay that it doesn’t work, same thing would happen here. The replay official would spend most of his/her/ze’s time covering for the ref’s on the field.

  43. Why is the suggestion always more replay & reviews? Why don’t they start sitting refs who keep screwing up?

  44. Yet another NFL game allowed to be the tainted by officials in a league that increasingly adds/enforces more and more rules catered to offenses without a care in the world for whether or not it’s good for the game.

    I absolutely hate watching a great game only to get to the end and almost expect it to come down to a bogus call or three to set up dramatic finishes.

    It’s almost too obvious at this point that the fix is in. The announcers can’t even cover it up at this point.

    The fact that rules and officiating are almost ALWAYS a talking point after EVERY single game says enough about the state of the league.

    Lifelong NFL fan that teeter-tottering on watching college over this nonsense.

  45. The first, an illegal hands to the face foul that replay review showed clearly wasn’t
    ——
    Disagree. With the exception of the first replay, none of them ran long enough to show that Flowers hand came up into the facemask and earpiece area of Bahk’s helmet at the very end of the play, right before the flag came out. That replay was never shown again but it’s quite bothersome to read this printed when I’ve for a screenshot on my phone showing 100% that you’re incorrect but it can’t be posted.

  46. The first call was legit. If you watch the replay through the end of the play (which ESPN wasn’t showing) his hand did end up under the face mask. The second call was iffy. But in both cases, ESPN wouldn’t let the replay go to the end of the play.

  47. Threat is right. In an effort to make officiating perfect, the unintended consequence is making the product unenjoyable and unwatchable. Get rid of replay and go back to allowing the human officials to referrer the game as they see it. The game was much better without replay. I’m a 56 year old male who has enjoyed the NFL for a lifetime- at least until the last couple of years. I’m out. No longer watching…

  48. NFL is looking more and more like the WWE, with scripted outcomes and not really a legitimate sport. If they want to restore credibility they have a very long way to go, and continuing to prevent any review of these kind of “judgment calls” only gives more fuel those who believe that outcomes are pre-determined and refs bend over backwards to help teams and players like Green Bay and Rodgers, which consistently screwing over teams like the Lions.

  49. You invest time in watching game and the same make believe call twice tells you not to watch the game. Read about it and maybe watch a couple videos.

  50. Worst officiating I’ve seen in my life. The two illegal hands calls on Flowers and the non PI call were all game-altering calls. This was a really, really bad night for the NFL.

  51. More outrageous than the Calvin Johnson rule incident. It’s one thing to miss a call. That happens. But to call the same penalty twice on the same player when no foul has occurred is inexcusable. Heads should roll over this – the integrity of the NFL itself is at stake.

  52. Got the *W* and that was the goal. Mission accomplished.

    I love that my boy Allen Lazard was asking for the ball and telling Aaron what routes he wanted to run. Aaron also asked WR coach Alvis Whitted to “put 13 in the game.” That’s what WR depth looks like.

    For those of you crying about the officials, it all evens out in a game. Questionable calls both ways in a game. ALWAYS are. Keep in mind that illegal hands to the face also includes the neck area. It’s in the rule. He had his fingers on Bakh’s neck and that is a penalty. You know who cries about officials? Losers.👌

    On to Oakland. One at a time.

    #GoPackGo!🏈

  53. With the first call so badly missed, why didn’t the replay official call down at the next TV time out commercial, to relay to the head ref to talk with the referee who threw the flag and inform him the DL had his hands at the top of the shoulder pads and not the face mask. Tell him to look at the hands and not the OL’s head who in these two cases may have “flopped” his head to get the call. Those two calls assisted GB in continuing their drives which ended in scores. It’s ashame poor officiating is costing teams wins, which could get a coach fired and the team loses out on making the playoffs where they can make extra cash.

  54. With gambling on games being legal in more states and the league partnering in gambling, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was paying money for calls/games to go certain ways… #tinfoilhat

  55. Booger F is like Sterling Sharpe in a telecast, information overload and mostly bad information…how he is still on MNF, I will never know.

  56. Glad it wasn’t just me. Those calls were killers. The game was effectively sealed for the Packers by the refs.
    The failure to call the PI on Grewwnbay on the last Detroit drive was pretty huge too.

  57. Fix the NFL in three steps.

    1) Fire Riveron. Either bring back Mike or find someone else. Don’t bring back Blandeno as he was terrible during his time.

    2) Change the replay standard to something similar when replay was first (re)introduced, which would cap replay time at 90 seconds and if there wasn’t indisputable evidence by then you kept the ruling on the field.

    3) If you are going to have a centralized replay as they moved to a few years back then do something more sensible. Have four full time replay individuals that include the head of officiating, a full time official, and two former players. Add in the head official who himself should have input and then make the overturn standard that 4/5 of those involved deem that there is clear and persuasive evidence in order to overturn. Currently replay is based on how good a sleep Riveron had.

  58. I used to scoff at people who said refs tend to favor Green Bay, especially at Lambeau. Never again. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, but tonight’s game was obviously slanted toward the Packers. It was infuriating, and I’m not even a lions fan.

  59. I’m a huge GB fan and half blind and I knew those calls were nonsense. Is it conspiracy or incompetence? Pretty sure its the former. Make everything challengeable. Its the only way.

  60. I feel terrible for Lions fans. First they had to live through the Phantom Facemask in 2015, and now they have the Phantom Illegal Hands to the Faces, which should live in even more infamy because it happened twice and literally stole the game from the Lions again. I’m not saying anything untoward is going on, but it’s funny how the Packers are always benefiting from these kinds of things.

  61. Kudos to Booger McFarland for his brutally honest assessment of the putrid officiating. Good for him for speaking truth when it might not be the best thing for someone in his position to do.

  62. Good thing the NFL addressed the problem with bad calls ruining the integrity of the game.

    Time to hit the re-set button.

  63. I see that the a-holes at the NFL do not accept emails………really? You all have likely have addressed this with them, I surely missed it. What was the response?
    After the laughingly bad officiating this weekend, including tonite to let the Packers have a chance, I am curious if you guys have had a response. Thanks for what you guys do.

  64. The NFL has zero credibility.

    So brash. Non penalty plays penalized on national TV. Clearly giving one team an advantage.

    National
    Fraudulent
    League

  65. Thank you, Mike Florio, for reporting on these phantom calls. Often the national media ignores officiating problems when their anointed players (like Rodgers/Mahomes) benefit from it. It’s nice to think that solving the officiating problem would be at the top of NFL’s agenda, but sadly, it probably won’t be. Look at how arrogantly they’re treating coaches who have dared to challenge PI non-calls under the new rule. It may sound conspiratorial, but the League seems invested in promoting certain players/teams. Stop and think about all the praise heaped on Rodgers when in reality he got down the field with multiple assists from referees on multiple drives in this game. Yet he is constantly characterized as the best QB in the NFL. If he’s such a transcendent talent, he shouldn’t need so much help from officials to complete drives. Certain players are overhyped as part of the marketing of the NFL.

  66. This is getting unwatchable. No less than 5 games this year have been decided by bogus calls, not to mention the fact penalties are up 20%. Just not a product that is viable. NFL better figure it out sooner than later.

  67. Is it just me, or is it defensive holding when the defensive player grabs a hold of inside of the o-linemans shoulder pads and holds onto it? Because that’s what I saw on one of those phantom calls.

  68. During the first half the Booger was talking about the Lions bringing in five former Payriots. They know the Patriot Way. How Belichik is so detailed he even tells the players the tendencies of the officiating crew.
    You would think after the first penalty, Flowers would havelearned a lesson and kept his hand’s lower.
    But I get it. They were getting no pressure for most of the game, and he had mostly been a non factor.
    When asked after the game about the calls, Patricia brought up coaching. I think that was what he was getting at.

  69. The NFL is an entertainment business meaning they can legally rig these games like they’ve been doing for several decades and getting away with it. With all these league rule adopting changes, it doesn’t matter what the owners propose/approve, the NFL will get their desired manipulated outcome of games. The firing or suspension of officiating crews never happen because they are just acting their roles. Listen to Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth very closely, (especially Al Michaels) they know what’s up, and sometimes they will clue the audience on who will win.

  70. The 1st call on Flowers was earlier in the play when the OL’s back was turned to the camera and the penalty was harder to see, but it was there. And the booth explained that one to us- you can’t have your hand in the opponent’s face or neck area. The 2nd one barely mattered, the Packers were moving the ball at will on that last drive. What about the uncalled hold that kept a Lions FG drive going in the 1st half? Or the punt fumble when the replay showed the Packers recovering the Packers recovering the ball? That led to a Lions FG.

    The calls evened out over the course of the game. In sports you have to take the bad with the good. You don’t get to cherry pick which calls you want to stay and which ones you want to be changed.

  71. The last grasp the League has on it’s authority to ‘drive’ the product Mike. Officiating.
    The human kind. Judgement calls.
    When you can’t hide from the HDTV reality, craft the review rules in such a way as to prevent a ‘challenge’ to the authority of 345 Park Ave.
    Hogs get slaughtered.
    The NFL is becoming nothing more than an unwatchable flag fest.
    I’m beginning to think they’re paying commissions on the amount of flying yellow laundry that leads to additional ‘ad revenue’ review time.

  72. I agreed with everything written in the article until you brought up gambling as the reason to get calls correct. How about ensuring the integrity of the outcome of the games? That’s a little more important, don’t you think?

  73. Don’t forget the obvious defensive pass interference on Green Bay that was NOT called in the fourth quarter that would have set up the Lions for atleast another field goal and enable them to burn more clock in the process.

  74. It was a bad call. Both were. All credit due to Rodgers (who had a reciever deliver an INT due to a bad miss on a catch in the red zone) and the Packers for capitalizing, but the Lions earned a win, or at least a better chance at one, that was stolen from them by yet another case of bad officiating by the refs. People complain about too many reviews, but with challenges limited already, NFL players and coaches deserve better than that for their efforts. We as fans deserve better as well.

  75. Nailed it Florio..

    This week has had dodgy officiating from the Giants getting mugged to this pair of phantom calls.

    Oddly, a lot of leading with the helmet ignored across the games.

    When Coaches bet a timeout to force the Refs to put their corrective lenses on and nothing changes it must chip off a little piece of their souls.

  76. The Lions got shafted by terrible officiating.

    Football fans, not just Lions fans are grumbling fix, refs bet the mortgage, etc. The NFL should sit up and take notice of this. There’s a big piece of the legalized betting pie out there waiting. And even a whimper of something being fixed takes all of that $$$ off of the table.

  77. It sucks to say it, since Ive been a fan for 30 years, but the NFL has truly become unwatchable. This is no longer hyperbole -I have seen 1 game this year, and I turned it off after my Bears were gifted a second chance on a play where that scrub Daniel Chase threw an awful interception but it was negated because a horsecrap roughing the QB penalty was called on Hurst of the Raiders.
    To the awful rules add the fact that kick returns are no longer a thing and that the flow of the game is constantly interrupted by replay reviews, and you have a terrible product.

  78. Yeah, as a Packers fan I am bothered by this.
    But what bothers me more is that a broadcaster is willing to let himself be known as “Booger?”

  79. There were some early calls that clearly helped Green Bay as well. That game is why some fans think games are fixed or rigged sometimes. I’m not a Lions fan, but from this impartial fan’s eyes, the Lions were robbed. The refs basically handed the game to the Packers. Total BS game.

  80. Wow. Just wow. I’m speechless, though an NFL side judge disputes that, claiming my lips may have moved sufficiently albeit incidentally to rule subvocalization — a “speech move” under rule 365 paragraph 8 — is taking place.

  81. What’s the better storyline? What sells better? Aaron Rodgers in a comeback victory, or Matt Stafford holding on to a late lead? The refs gave the NFL the outcome it wanted.

  82. So your headline is theoretically wrong, if, as Clete says, it’s head AND neck, not just the ‘face’ even though it’s called “hands to the face”… oh. boy.

    I’d sure like to see that in writing. Maybe they should let the players and announcers know. Even Booger didn’t know the rule, if that’s really the rule.

  83. The NFL needs to take back control of the league from the incompetent referees. They are making a mockery of PI review to the extent that most coaches will abandon the challenge. Even allowing anything to be challenged won’t fix it when the officials belligerently refuse to overturn obvious calls. A video recall needs to be from an outside official with authority over the call and no allegiance to the referees.

  84. Did the enforcement reaction to the Rams-Saints NFCCG missed call actually make officiating worse? I do not recall so many blatant mistakes during the 2018 season.

  85. “… this growing problem with officiating should be at the top of their agenda, because it’s the biggest threat their game currentlky faces”.
    “Growing problem”?
    NFL officiating is the clown car of the multi billion dollar business. It’s always been a problem.
    Besides the players kneeling to protest “systemic oppression” (who comes up with these catch phrases?) Iand WAY TOO MANY COMMERCIALS, I can’t think of anything worse for the league than the terrible officiating.

  86. The two calls for illegal hands to face were the impactful type that were so obviously wrong that it begs the replay option be expanded to include these.

    In fact, I’m starting to agree with Belichick that replay should include any play. As shown by the lack of successful challenges to Pass Interference, expansion would help in these types of awful game changing calls, but not be used frivolously.

  87. Green Bay to lose in Lambeau Field? Unthinkable. (At least not too many times in a season.)

    But at this point the integrity of the game suffers. When the league goes after every player if they don’t act to the standard, they are maddeningly idle when it comes to their inability to officiate a game.

  88. Constant review will only delay offensive momentum as well as stretch the time before the telly waiting on the review. Best possibility would be a video umpire who looks quickly at all the video and contacts the field for possible change of call, pretty much what happens with video review then contacting the coach to throw the challenge flag.

  89. This preferencial treatment of the Green Bay Rodgers needs to stop! It’s absolutely sickening!

  90. Crazy how the NFL pretends to care about its image when dealing with TD celebrations and the type of shoes a player wears, but lets the refs make bad calls that decide the outcome of games.

  91. I’m just glad this happened on Monday night football… When the entirety of the football world was watching. They’ve blatantly stared us all in the face and said… “What are you going to do about it? We call it like we want and we cost teams games… OH WELL!!!” 🤦🏿‍♂️

  92. I turned the game off after that first one… I cannot stand Aaron Rodgers already and watching them be gifted the game for ratings or whatever the hell was going on just made me sick.

    I don’t believe in conspiracies very often but I’m pretty sure that the front office is trying to control ratings by making the games closer.

    All those calls in the cowboys game to let them get a chance to win was very similar.

    WWE style

  93. Everyone knows Green Bay is allowed to backfill the officiating crew with local high school refs who bleed green and gold. Been that way for years.

  94. Long time Lions fan here. The long list of bogus calls in this team’s history … I’m not even going to start. ..this was just DISGUSTING

  95. No, just no. Review of PI has proven there are no sure things when it comes to defining what is, or what isn’t, a penalty. Coaches don’t have the discipline to not throw a flag, and the refs are unable to be consistent from crew to crew, game to game.

    Your ideas have largely killed the game, slowing it down, and creating even more controversy. Let the boys play.

  96. This is why you should be able to challenge anything

    You still only get 2 , but you should be allowed to challenge any call or non call

    It wouldn’t slow down the game

  97. Green Bay is the darling franchise of the league. No one gets more favorable calls. No one. It’s not even close.

    I didn’t even wait around to see 0:00 because I knew the Lions, once again, would be the sacrificial lambs. I was right.

  98. Really bad calls tonight but when you have a Quarterback who cant throw one touchdown pass that’s the bigger problem Next year in order for the lions to move up they need to address the quarterback situation. There is reason Stanford has been in this league for so long and hasnt won one playoff game.

  99. I’ve been visiting this site for over 9 years and it’s lost it’s luster, and so has the game of the nfl. The people of this site are just like the referees making bad judgement calls on what gets allowed to be written like they are some authority suppressing free speech. And look at the game they’ve pussified it down to where the main purpose, tackling people has become a science experiment in how you can do it. Thanks for the memories even though they weren’t so great since I’m a Vikings fan

  100. Lions could have done a better job offensively turning even one of ghos field goals into touchdowns. But those two calls on Flowers just reeked of the officiating deciding the outcome. It was just as bad Sunday when the Jets were flagged on three straight plays while Dallas was driving. Seems like the NFL does it’s best to get the desired outcome

  101. diehard pats fan from MA married to a bears fan from Chicago. My wife was more irate than I was for obvious reasons.

    Every team is the beneficiary of bad calls, but this is absurd. Our Arch Rival Jets had Dallas on the ropes, and I saw more flags than what is outside of a NATO Building, that single handedly kept the Cowboys hopes alive.

    I don’t EVER RECALL Trey Flowers getting flagged in a get..LET ALONE TWICE on BS CALLS!

    Keep up the great work Riveron!!!!!

  102. Amen to this article. Why can’t they do it the way FIFA now officiates soccer? It doesn’t seriously impede the flow of a soccer game, and it wouldn’t here. Of course, the officials would have to actually reverse flagrant officiating errors, the way they are NOT doing it with the PI replay calls…

  103. As a spandex-wearing, middle-aged Mr. Magoo myself, I couldn’t agree more. Let’s go to the videotape!

  104. This whole thing has just gotten weird. It’s one thing for a ref to make an ridiculously bad call, but it’s another thing that no one has the authority to step in and make it right. Clear and obvious video evidence should mean something.

  105. The first hands to the face penalty could have been legit. If you look at the backside view of the play right after the snap, Bakhtiari’s head snaps back, which would indicate that Flowers had grabbed or hit Bakhtiari’s face mask. There is no clear video view from the downfield side of the play because another player is in the way. Regardless, I am willing to give the official the benefit of the doubt that there was hands to the face contact.

    The second hands to the face penalty was total BS and should not have been called.

  106. It is part of the experience the league provides when watching a game at hallowed Lambeau. On the first I thought it was going to be a flag for hitting Rodgers too hard or landing with too much weight but the result was the same: 4th and long, a two score lead, game over becomes a TD a couple plays later.

    No surprise. Packers in 1st place.

  107. I think a video official might work as long as it’s not used to call penalties that were not called by the official. If the video ref can just call penalties that were not called, it won’t solve the problem. (Has the new PI replay review worked? I say no)

    If the video ref is ONLY used when a flag is thrown, to review that flag ONLY, it might work. (And I emphasis MIGHT)

    Otherwise, you can review every play on the offensive/defensive line and a call a penalty. Which will create more problems.

  108. Where to begin with this mess?

    The “growing problem with officiating” needs to be met head on. What does that mean? The immediate dismissal of Alberto Riveron. He fired a game official in the middle of the season, why can’t the same happen to the Incompetent Wonder known as Alberto Riveron?

    A video official might be a good idea, or maybe restore decision making responsibilities to the already existing Replay Official in the booth at each stadium?

    Poor performing players, general manager and coaches get let go all of the time. Why doesn’t the same apply to Riveron?

    Think Roger Goodell! Think!

  109. It’s incredible how bad officiating has gotten. How is it that college football officiating is so much better than the NFL? Ever since the strike a few years back, it hasn’t been the same. The NFL’s desire to save a few bucks from paying pensions has seriously damaged their product. It sometimes feels like the games are fixed the way the refs call them anymore.

  110. Not to worry….the league will address it in the winter meetings and declare anything above the waist…hands to the face

  111. Look , you are right – the officiating is bad all around.

    But , it’s happened to the Lions over and over , on national TV multiple times.

    The picked up PI call during the Dallas playoff game- totally changed momentum as the lions were driving.

    The phantom facemaak on Rodgers – causes an untiimed down and Hail Mary for them to win. I know all they had to do was stop the Hail Mary but The lions literally had the game won and the refs handed the Packers another shot. Then – we have to see it replayed on not only commercials – but In official NFL footage over and over. Hell they even showed it during this game. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is as a lions fan to see that play run by the NFL to tout it as a feather in Rogers cap when the only reason it happened is became of a screw up? The NFL should be trying to bury that footage since it’s a shining example of what can happen when the call is wrong – Instead it’s rubbed in our faces.

    Then this game – look there were other things that happened , and you don’t want to leave it up to the refs – but the simple truth is that the non PI call , the helmet to helmet which i truly Believe was BS and doesn’t get called the other way around – and the 2 absurd calls on Flowers 100% were the deciding factors in this game.

    I don’t buy into sports conspiracies – but when you see your team on the receiving end of this against marquee teams when the lights are on – over and over it’s incredibly aggravating.

  112. This problem is screaming for a simple, common-sense solution—that EVERY call is able to be challenged.

    The NFL is run by morons. (Ideal gas law, anyone?)

  113. Now, just for a minute close your eyes and imagine… imagine it was the NFC championship game and not week 6. But saints fans are such whiners, right. NFL has a serious problem. LionsGotRobbedToo.

  114. I could not believe those two calls against Flowers. Pure BS. He had never been called for illegal hands-to-the-face in his entire football career until last night. These refs are ridiculous!

  115. The pack was still gonna kick the go ahead FG. All it did was cost them the chance to come back and score. Let’s face it, Lions were outscored 22 to 10 for the final 53 minutes of the game. Come on the refs are horrible but they did not cost the lions the game. They cost them a chance to come back.

  116. Flowers wouldn’t have been flagged had he been on New England. Remember folks that Kraft and BB has made the game where only the superstars get the calls now. Enjoy the decline of the NFL, the same 3-4 teams will only be going to SB each year.

  117. More replay won’t solve it unless they add 50 more cameras. The one angle ESPN had on the Flowers calls didn’t show enough to determine if it was or wasn’t a penalty. The umpire threw both flags, and there wasn’t a camera angle that showed the back side of the play. We don’t know what he saw. They shouldn’t have been overturned it.

  118. Al “floating on the” Riveron needs to be fired and the NFL officials need some serious training and to be held accountable for horrible calls. I am no Lions fan but as a fan of the game it is getting harder and harder to watch 20 flags thrown every game for ticky tack calls and then the refs blow the big ones and replay is useless.

  119. This was a great game to watch until the NFL Refs determined the outcome. It was revolting how blatant the Ref gave the game over to Green Bay.
    Matt Patricia has no balls and he should of threw the Red Flag got in the Refs face and fired his Team up.

    We can all see where this is going = NFL’s darling Aaron Rodgers and GB need help to get to SBLIII in celebration of the 100 Year Mark.

  120. With all those billions of league dollars at hand and the advanced technology that surrounds us, they should seriously figure out something soon?

    One day, it will be the Super Bowl final we’re talking about… and a team getting robbed of the big trophy – all because of a rogue ref or two having vision problems. Just sayin.

  121. Complain if you want Tigers but the refs didn’t put 12 men on the field at the end of the first half giving the Pack a first and goal. That resulted in 7 Pack pts instead of 3.

  122. …and…continuing to use old men that are part-time officials adds to the conspiracy theory that the NFL manipulates games through their officials. There is absolutely ZERO reason the NFL can’t hire young, full-time officials. The rest of the league is working on a 12-month schedule, and so should the officials. That game last night was yet another travesty added to the long long list of embarrassingly awful NFL officiating.

  123. Nothing will change the rules until Sean Payton and the Saints cry about it. Only then will something be done about it.

  124. national tv, the world is watching and the NFL displays its officiating incompetence.
    well done everyone at NFL offices

  125. The NFL really wants the Packers to do something big in this 100th anniversary season. No other explanation.

  126. Those two calls were disgusting! It appeared the fix was in. Why when the NFL has a superior product, does the officiating continue to be an issue???

  127. Watch those plays in slo-mo and tell me Flowers didn’t set his hands high into the pad (which he was legally grabbing) and push into the face of Bak. I can easily grab someone by the shirt collar and push his head back with a closed fist. Foul. 5-1. Go Pack Go!!

  128. Not just bad calls, but intentional bad calls. Got to keep the score close and help the favored team win. Entertainment trumps fair play in the new NFL

  129. Funny when ESPN showed that game winning Hail Mary a few years ago and failed to mention the Lions got screwed with a phantom pass interference to set up that play. Must be nice to have the refs bail you out constantly.

  130. Looks like a horse collar to me. Is it fair to have your fist two inches from a players wind pipe? Show me video of another player doing the same. Seems like an unfair advantage to me. Also, why is he doing the same thing he just got called for? Maybe this is how he got his big pay day. Don’t do it again.

  131. Terrible call late in the game on Flowers! But it didn’t change the game outcome. The Packers were already well within field goal range and would have taken the lead on the next play if the penalty hadn’t been called.

    This wasn’t a call that cost a team the game. But there have been more than a few others this year that did. Such as the “non call’ against the Eagles for a flagarant PI, in the final play of the game against the Packers.

  132. The theory of Goodell wanting GB in a SB based off the 100 year anniversary makes sense. It would be a typical Goodell want.

    They always work backwards to get their desired result. This is another reason ratings are dropping. People want to see a fair ending on a weeknight and they go to bed knowing Goodell cheated again.

  133. Terrible call late in the game on Flowers! But it didn’t change the game outcome. The Packers were already well within field goal range and would have taken the lead on the next play if the penalty hadn’t been called.

    This wasn’t a call that cost a team the game. But there have been more than a few others this year that did. Such as the “non call’ against the Eagles for a flagarant PI, in the final play of the game against the Packers.

    ——————————————

    How about the earlier phantom hands to the face where instead of a sack and 4th and 20 punting the packers got a first down gifted to them and then scored a TD a couple plays later that pulled them into striking distance in the 4th quarter? Or the missed obvious PI on Marvin Jones? Keep playing ostrich and putting your head in the sand and ignoring the problem because your team benefited. As usual.

  134. I can understand if a Ref fails to see a Penalty. It’s a fast game, a lot of movement and the Ref may not be looking in the right direction at the right time. But I cannot handle a Ref throwing a flag on a Penalty that did not occur. They didn’t SEE hands to the face, but they ASSUMED it was occurring because of Bahktiari’s reaction. That is a load of BS and seriously may have taken away the Lion’s chance at the Postseason.

  135. 4personalitytheories says:
    October 15, 2019 at 7:13 am
    Nfl…..rigging games for a few decades now
    Looking at you patsies
    ———-
    Yet, despite all the rule changes, fabricated rule breaking, and sabotage by Goodell the Patriots continue to win…

  136. To the salty mountain of hate saying Patriots get the calls, I remind you the “Philly Special” TD used an illegal formation, and Philly’s bobbled TD did not meet that year’s catch rules.

  137. vikingjack73 says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:21 am
    NO Packers fan ANYWHERE will admit those calls shouldn’t have been made!
    They will NEVER admit that without them, one drive would have been DEAD and GB would have been forced to punt, instead of scoring a TD

    Typical fictional “Packers Magic”
    The MOST OVERRATED, and FRAUDULENT Franchise in sports history continues to win with B.S. calls and a league that turns a blind eye!

    —————————————————————————————

    Okay, Mr. Vikings fan. I am a Packers fan and have been since 1960. I have seen horrible calls in NFL games all my life. Like it or not, there will always be calls which go against one team or another. Yes, those two calls on the Lions were bad calls. BUT — think about this. We all saw them in slow motion from different angles. The officials don’t have that luxury. I’ll bet you any amount of money that if anyone of us was the official who threw those flags, we’d have all thought it was hands to the face, too. In fact, the first time I saw the replays, I still thought it was hands to the face.
    I have refereed football games, and in spite of that ignorant nitwit Booger McFarland’s rants, it’s a very difficult thing to do. In fact, it’s almost impossible to do it perfectly because of the speed of the game.
    But to say that the officials favor one team over another is blatant B.S. I could name you ten games over the last 10 years which `contributed in a big way to Packers’ losses, just as you and every fan could. How about the two Clay Matthews roughing the passer calls last year which cost the Packers two games, for instance? Anyone who has ever watched football knows he did not rough Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith, but the officials said he did and that’s was that.
    The bottom line is, the Lions had that game totally in hand, but they didn’t get the job done. So they are to blame for losing that game, not the officials.
    And anyone who whines about the officiating and blames the officials for their team losing is just being childish. Because every team gets calls that go their way and every team gets calls that go against them. We all know that holding could be called on every play on every team.
    The Packers are 5 and 1 because they’ve played well enough when they had to to win games. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that.

  138. Instead of using the bad officiating to pump his Replay Review ideas….Florio should write about the state of the NFL and whether we can trust the product on the field.

    I am not prone to conspiracy theories. And I find myself questioning what I’m seeing.

    Is the NFL scripted?

  139. kensilisacrook says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:02 am
    AND the pass interference that wasn’t called, and the personal foul in attempting to intercept the ball. Just awful. Detroit got jobbed!

    Please let me know when you can explain for us what PI really is these days. On the hit to the head intent doesn’t matter. The defensive player is responsible to maintain control of himself. He initiated contact. Penalty plain and simple. Learn the rules.

  140. Just STOP calling so much. It’s not that complicated–if it’s not egregious and doesn’t obviously affect the play, don’t call it. The games are practically unwatchable. Get rid of the reviewing PI call – we knew there was no way that would work. It’s football, the officials are not going to get everything right, it’s not possible. Stop pretending you can. Review turnovers and scoring plays and, I agree w Florio, have the official in the booth that tells them to pick up the flag when they make a terrible call.

  141. SaintsGotRobbed says:
    October 15, 2019 at 7:42 am
    Now, just for a minute close your eyes and imagine… imagine it was the NFC championship game and not week 6. But saints fans are such whiners, right. NFL has a serious problem. LionsGotRobbedToo.

    Nice John Grisham reference. Well done, Sir!

  142. The biggest mistake any official can make in any sport is to make a call based on what they think they saw, rather than on what they could actually see. The umpire made this mistake on the first call. He then attempted to justify the first call by calling it again. There is absolutely no way the umpire should ever step on an NFL field again.

  143. The NFL could easily fix a lot of this crap but refuse to do it. Why not hands to the face mask. Clear, easy to see and eliminates the calls like last night. How about one foot in like college, so we dont go to 6 minutes of commercial why the refs do replay heaven. Simple solution to fix but of course way less commercials.
    I mean common on the change in the rules was to create this chaos so they could make Madison Avenue and those Benjamins all important.

  144. View from California was the Lions got robbed multiple times, the NFL has really got to fix their officiating on field and in replays, the product and process stinks right now

  145. Officiating was horrible. Period, end of story, if you think those penalties were real, you’re an obvious packers fan thats willing to turn a blind eye so long as it helps your team.

    The fact that this game was nationally televised, in prime time, for the entire football world only magnifies the problem.

    The only saving grace for the NFL is that the Packers only won by a point and didn’t cover the spread. And while trying to let Green Bay score a TD on that final drive after the penalty in an attempt to get the ball back, was the right call by Patricia, had GB actually not paid attention and went in, and then covered the spread, things would have looked even worse.

  146. “You preposterous fool! It isn’t the hundred thousand dollars you robbed me of–it’s the principle of uncorrupted sport! Jurors? – Migelito Loveless “The Night of Miguelito’s Revenge”

  147. cmstrick says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:10 am
    Packer fan here. And it’s hard to feel good about this one.
    Seems like the officiating gets worse every year…

    I am a long time Packers fan and I feel the same way those were some terrible calls.

    But, I also think that the Lions should have put the Packers away (they were the better team last night) earlier and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

  148. first of all FTP. Second of all, as a Lions fan, why even watch? I am officially done with the NFL and Lions. There’s no point. I turned the game off after the third quarter because i could feel the screwjob in the air. it happens every year. THE NFL RIGS GAMES FOR THE POPULAR FRANCHISES

  149. The game is almost unwatchable due to commercials and penalties. Forget pass interference on both sides. Forget holding on both sides. Give coaches ability to go to replay at any time, on any play for any reason (max 3). Hire full time refs.

  150. Replay review is not a cure-all, evidenced by the nonsense that is the PI challenge this year.

    They are making it abundantly clear that they will overturn only the most glaring missed calls even when they do it, so all more replay is likely to yield is slower games and more angry coaches and fans with lost timeouts.

    They need better officials and more accountability. With should include paying them to be full time employees.

    Or they need to have the officials only manage the game and do the game flow penalties, and develop tech to have the spots, the penalties, and the calls decided by a dedicated booth to start with.

  151. nyneal says:
    October 15, 2019 at 9:22 am

    vikingjack73 says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:21 am
    NO Packers fan ANYWHERE will admit those calls shouldn’t have been made!
    They will NEVER admit that without them, one drive would have been DEAD and GB would have been forced to punt, instead of scoring a TD

    Typical fictional “Packers Magic”
    The MOST OVERRATED, and FRAUDULENT Franchise in sports history continues to win with B.S. calls and a league that turns a blind eye!

    —————————————————————————————

    Okay, Mr. Vikings fan. I am a Packers fan and have been since 1960. I have seen horrible calls in NFL games all my life. Like it or not, there will always be calls which go against one team or another. Yes, those two calls on the Lions were bad calls. BUT — think about this. We all saw them in slow motion from different angles. The officials don’t have that luxury. I’ll bet you any amount of money that if anyone of us was the official who threw those flags, we’d have all thought it was hands to the face, too. In fact, the first time I saw the replays, I still thought it was hands to the face.
    I have refereed football games, and in spite of that ignorant nitwit Booger McFarland’s rants, it’s a very difficult thing to do. In fact, it’s almost impossible to do it perfectly because of the speed of the game.
    But to say that the officials favor one team over another is blatant B.S. I could name you ten games over the last 10 years which `contributed in a big way to Packers’ losses, just as you and every fan could. How about the two Clay Matthews roughing the passer calls last year which cost the Packers two games, for instance? Anyone who has ever watched football knows he did not rough Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith, but the officials said he did and that’s was that.
    The bottom line is, the Lions had that game totally in hand, but they didn’t get the job done. So they are to blame for losing that game, not the officials.
    And anyone who whines about the officiating and blames the officials for their team losing is just being childish. Because every team gets calls that go their way and every team gets calls that go against them. We all know that holding could be called on every play on every team.
    The Packers are 5 and 1 because they’ve played well enough when they had to to win games. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that.

    _______________________________________________________________________________

    Okay Mr Packas Fan,

    Why are you bringing up last years calls and calls from 10 years ago when the technology to make some of those calls didn’t even exist.? That was last year or 10 years ago, this game happened last night. Let me ask you this, reverse the situation how would you feel this morning if it happened to your team? You and your Cheezer buddies would be casting Lombardi spells and the air would be rife with we got robbed mentality, Old Style would be sold out at the local gas stations and a lot of people calling in sick today.

    Sometimes you see what you want to see because you want a certain outcome. Sure the Lions should have won the game its solely on them I agreed BUT when calls like this skew the outcome that’s just not right and you know it. You trying to rationalize your squads win, I think that’s blatant BS.

    Its sad when calls decide outcomes of games especially in the 4th quarter. At least own up to it and say your squad had some help>

    “And anyone who whines about the officiating and blames the officials for their team losing is just being childish.”

    True to a certain extent when the call is debatable, these calls were not debatable…AT ALL! Its blatant and Mr. Packas Fan is inexcusable. Bottom line is people outside of Green Bay are tired of Packa lore, Packa mystic at Lambeau – there is none. Really the frozen tundra is ancient history that half of you were not even around for, let alone when the Packers had no play off appearances for 20 some years, you couldnt find a Packers fan outside of Green Bay. Half your fan base has never been to Green Bay, seen a cow or even had a cheese curd. They think a Brat is a mean unruly child. Its about winning and people want to be associated with a winner.

    Let me tell ya what its about Mr. Packa Fan (Rube), its about money and the NFL wants a Brady Rodgers match-up for the 100 year anniversary on the biggest stage. To Quote you

    “Anyone who knows anything about football knows that.”

  152. An outside investigation of that officiating crew would give fans more trust in the NFL. The officials clearly had a reason to make sure the Packers won.

    They needed it so bad they didn’t care that these conversations were going to happen afterward.

  153. One official saw it in….one didn’t. There was no conclusive view either way. Whatever was called should stand.
    __________________________________________________
    packers291 says:
    October 15, 2019 at 11:23 am

    What about the phantom TD by the lions?

  154. I have to admit that I’m officially sick of the NFL… Dad was right all along years ago- The games/ League is rigged

  155. praetorianspqr says:
    October 15, 2019 at 11:42 am

    One official saw it in….one didn’t. There was no conclusive view either way. Whatever was called should stand.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    Yup, they gifted them a TD, look up the TV views of the goal line, he didn’t cross it! The Lions should have had 7 less points that were gifted to them. The calls on the final drive were crap, but all the Packers got out of it were 3 points, the Lions got 7 for nothing! Just saying.

  156. gopackgocausecowboysblow says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:21 am
    As a Packer fan the officiating was horrible. But, my question is why didn’t Patricia throw a challenge flag on the obvious PI call on Redmond. If he does and he would win it changes the complexion of the game.
    ************************

    How many games have you watched where the call was overturned? I swear, the NFL has tacitly told the teams not to bother with challenging PI calls because they’re not going to over turn them, either way. Oh, and I’m a Pats fan and thought they made mistakes against the Pats in that Giants game.

  157. 49erfan44 says:
    October 15, 2019 at 12:04 am

    Does any team get more drive extending penalties than Green Bay?

    —————————————-

    Did you see the end of the Jets/Cowboys game?

  158. It doesn’t matter WHAT they allow coaches to have reviewed. We’ve ALL seen that they are going to rule whatever they want REGARDLESS of what video shows.

    I’m a Pats fan. but that PI that WASN’T called on Jonathan Jones vs Giants(?), and then upon further review had the non call upheld, was a slap in the face to every fan who watches/goes to games.

    The evidence was crystal clear, and though it could be missed at live speed, it was as clear as could be on the replay that interference occurred.

    Bottom line: The NFL can rule whatever it wants and then ignore all evidence to the contrary and let bad calls stand. They do it on a regular basis. So making EVERYTHING reviewable wouldn’t change ANYTHING.

    Particularly when their is ZERO accountability

  159. jshawaii22 says:
    October 15, 2019 at 3:05 am
    So your headline is theoretically wrong, if… it’s head AND neck, not just the ‘face’ even though it’s called “hands to the face”… I’d sure like to see that in writing.
    —————————————————————————————-
    Article 6 A defensive player may not:

    (c) thrust his hands forward above the frame of an opponent to contact him on the neck, face, or head (Note: Contact in close-line play that is not prolonged and sustained is not a foul, unless the opponent’s head is pinned back by direct and forcible contact.)

  160. tahnoonzee says:
    October 15, 2019 at 1:39 am
    The NFL is an entertainment business meaning they can legally rig these games like they’ve been doing for several decades and getting away with it. With all these league rule adopting changes, it doesn’t matter what the owners propose/approve, the NFL will get their desired manipulated outcome of games. The firing or suspension of officiating crews never happen because they are just acting their roles.
    ====================
    Not true. Now that gambling is legal. A class action from gamblers who RELIED on the presentation as a TRUE CONTEST could indeed bring a lawsuit for FRAUD vs the NFL if the “fixing” of outcomes for entertainment was proven. They could claim DAMAGES for lost gambling wages that RELIED on the FRAUDULENT presentation

  161. So all the folks claiming the refs always favor the Pack took a week off from watching football a couple weeks back when the those same refs handed the game to Philly in Lambeau?

  162. Lions got jobbed, no doubt. Lets be honest – TD for Lions – not a TD, not reviewed. The DPI on the Lions in 2nd QTR, not called. Referees plain and simple stink. Every team says we want to take out of the referees hands. Even the Snot man last night said FG’s aren’t enough.

  163. The Detroit Lions got jobbed. If not for one of those Trey Flowers calls they would have won the game. Disgusting calls and the league needs to address it.

  164. Funny Bakhtiari said after the game he was getting punched in the throat all night long. I agree they were bad calls but after the first one maybe stop putting your hands inside his pads? Defense backs have to adjust to the way the game is called.

  165. Warning: humble opinions coming:

    Just a Thought, maybe they can hire referees full-time, so the refs could

    (novel idea coming)

    master their trade(?).

    So what does NFL really stand for? “Not Full-time-League”
    ….
    JMHO: but an organization swimming with cash, maybe ought to figure out how to hire, train, and compensate full-time professional referees.

    This is a profession, this isn’t a house or T-shirt league for kids.

    JMHAO (Just My Humble Additional Opinion):

    While agree that if your a fan or team that complains incessantly to get a rule change (i.e. New Orleans), you risk sounding like “crybabies”, (until this happens to other teams) the fans/critics might disagree) BUT you DO HAVE a POINT (IMHO) and let’s face it New Orleans would have scored more than 3 points, maybe 28 against the Pats in SB 53.

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