Tom Brady won’t say he’s better than Joe Montana

Getty Images

When Tom Brady was a child, Joe Montana was his favorite football player. And Brady still puts Montana on a pedestal.

Brady was asked by Howard Stern whether he has surpassed his childhood hero, and Brady refused to say he’s better than Montana.

I can’t say that,” Brady said. “I would never say that. That’s not how I think about myself. The only thing I care about is am I the best I can be? I’m the best I can be.”

In terms of career accomplishments, however, Brady surpassed Montana a while ago. By the end of the 2020 season, Brady will have about twice as many career passing yards and touchdown passes as Montana. Brady also has about twice as many yards and touchdowns as Montana in the playoffs. With more Super Bowl rings, more Super Bowl MVPs and more regular-season MVPs, there’s not much of a case that Brady isn’t the better quarterback.

But Brady will let other people make that case.

168 responses to “Tom Brady won’t say he’s better than Joe Montana

  1. The only stat that Joe has over Brady is the 4-0 in Super Bowls, but that is only because he did not get there as often…he lost earlier, which is not really better since you do not give your team a chance that way.

  2. Tom Brady does not need to say what everyone knows.

    Tom Brady may never have been the best that he can be, but he remains now, and perhaps forever, the Greatest NFL Player of All-Time.

  3. Biggest thing the salty mountain of hate ignore is Brady playing in the Parity Era. Next is his record against 5 other divs is same or higher than against the AFCE. Then the sheer mass & consistency of success – 9 SB trips in 18 seasons, 41 playoffs (30-11) is like two Montanas.

  4. Well, Superbowls are totally team and for Superbowl MVPS…I think it is very fair to say that for a couple it should have been comeone else … the RB in the last one and the Kicker in a few earlier…HOWEVER…the yrds and all that…yeah…possibly….

  5. Because he’s not better than Montana. Niners organization was never fined for cheating, they never lost draft picks for cheating, their coach was never fined for cheating and Montana was never suspended for cheating. So of course he can’t say he is better than him

  6. He’d have an argument if it weren’t for the cheating allegations; can’t take away the chips just like the asterisks

  7. Cannot wait to hear the 4-0 SB record comparisons to 6-3. The other will be people lauding Montana with winning all his SBs but Brady needed help to win his. Can we all just say both were great and leave it at that.

  8. Unfair comparison. Brady played for a top franchise for 20 years in an era when passing rules were changed to allow for far more offense. Montana played 10 years for a top franchise in an era when Lyle Alzado, Lawrence Taylor, Deacon Jones and Mean Joe Greene were looking to kill people. That’s why players should only be compared by era.

  9. Not a Pat fan but a Brady fan. That is what sports or this website is about “The Debate”. His respect for others is what a big part of what makes him great.

  10. Montana and Bradshaw only ones to go 4-0. Aikman 3-0. Never walked off a SB field knowing how it felt to lose. Comparing greatest players of all time like Montana and Brady is splitting hairs. Why even try?

  11. Different era, different set of rules, different opponents, etc… That’s like saying Mohammed Ali is better than Mario Andretti. It just doesn’t make sense.

  12. Having seen both play extensively, it’s like trying to compare LeBron to Jordan. It’s like “1” and “1A”. As a defense, both are a nightmare on a game-winning drive.

  13. Brady is no dummy. He and everybody knows he’s the best of all time and everyone else is a very distant 2nd, 3rd, 4th or whatever, but as usual he’s much too classy to be hooked into that trap. In addition, he truly admires and looks up to Joe Montana, who was one of the few that set the previous standard of excellence. The 49ers and Montana were something to behold.

  14. I am a Steelers fan and Mr. Brady has been responsible for keeping a Lombardi Trophy or 2 from coming to Pittsburgh. Still, I admire what he has accomplished and he is a classy guy. I hope he does well in Tampa Bay. Imagine a Brady v Mahomes Super Bowl to help us forget our current travails.

    Who is the better QB? Based on accomplishments and numbers, Brady certainly is tops. Looking at the athletic skills that each displayed, that’s not so clear. Both were great in their time. Those of us old enough to have watched great QB play from Unitas to Brady and now Mahomes all have our favorites.

  15. Well, even with all that being said, we’ll see if Tom can take the Bucs into the playoffs like Joe did the Chiefs.

  16. Is Howard Stern the best radio host ever? Same deal. Be the best you can be and let other people rate you.

  17. I have zero problem with someone saying Brady is the best ever. I do have a problem when people act like it can’t be debated. The eras are so different. Brady is the best of his era without question, but comparing Brady to Montana is as stupid as comparing Montana to Bart Starr or Sammy Baugh.

  18. Apples to oranges. It was a different era of football. Different style of football. They are both great QBs in their own time.

  19. He doesn’t have to say it. He has the numbers and hardware to prove it. Brady is the GOAT, end of story.

  20. Mike Tyson deferred to Muhammad Ali as the greatest, and so should Brady to Montana.

  21. Brady stays classy, as always, which makes the haters all that much more jealous. GOAT!!!

  22. Would Brady have done as well in Montana’s era, when defenses could actually play defense?

  23. Because he’s not! He never would have lasted back then when QBs could be hit and don’t forget it wasn’t until the NFL tightened OPI rules that Manning and others started torching previous passing records

  24. johnnycantread says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:03 am
    Mike Tyson deferred to Muhammad Ali as the greatest, and so should Brady to Montana.

    __________________________________________________

    Yeah, because Mike Tyson should be the model for ALL of us on how to conduct our lives.

  25. Terry Bradshaw is tied with Montana with 4 rings, yet I never hear Bradshaw’s name in these discussions about who’s the greatest Quarterback ever. It seems for some guys, we’re allowed to consider the entire organization, but for others, we only consider the quarterback. To make a real comparison, shouldn’t you use the same criteria for everyone? So if you compare QB’s by watching film, you’re not going to see a better QB than Montana, but if you compare trophies, Brady is the best ever. Bradshaw doesn’t get the respect he deserves. His tape is awesome too.

  26. Would Brady have done as well in Montana’s era, when defenses could actually play defense?

    —————————

    ksiner46

    This argument doesn’t hold water, as Montana played terribly (after 1st SB run) against good defense, actually after 1st SB run, he didn’t win a single playoff game when opponent offense scored more than 10 points. (Vikings scored a TD in garbage time, bengals special team scored a TD in SB).

    So even if you are right that the defense in 80s was tougher, it still doesn’t prove anything.

  27. ksiner46 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:24 am
    Because he’s not! He never would have lasted back then when QBs could be hit and don’t forget it wasn’t until the NFL tightened OPI rules that Manning and others started torching previous passing records

    This is ALWAYS BS revisionist history!
    Go back and watch ANY film from ANY team in the 80s and 90s
    WR were NOT getting grabbed and held all the way down the field it’s just not true

    Montana at his best was 190 pounds

    Brady is 6’4 240 he plays against bigger stronger faster defensive players

    He has a quick release like Marino. To say he couldn’t play in the 80 or 90 is BS

  28. Because he’s not! He never would have lasted back then when QBs could be hit and don’t forget it wasn’t until the NFL tightened OPI rules that Manning and others started torching previous passing records

    ———————–

    Ksiner46,

    This argument doesn’t hold water either.

    Tom Brady got rid of balls faster, stayed in a small pocket, meaning, pass rushers wouldn’t be able to hit him ON FULL SPEED.

    Remember the hit on Joe in 1991 NFCCG? such hit wouldn’t happen to Brady.

  29. Joe beat an inferior AFC that lost 15 of 16 SBs in his era. But that’s good enough for #2.

  30. 2ruefan says:
    April 9, 2020 at 7:27 am
    Doing SOMETHING LONGER or MORE than someone else doesn’t make you “greater”

    Actually, yeah, it does. Longevity and consistency over time is exactly what makes someone great. TB has been the best or one of the best QBs in the league every year for 2 decades. That is the definition of greatness.

    Now, a player who is middle of the pack every year and just racks up stats over time doesn’t necessarily supplant someone else who didn’t play as long. But thats not Brady.

  31. Klopek says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:47 am
    Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB, Tommy Boy does

    ————
    Because Joe lost in the divisional or conference games. Its why Joe has 16 playoff wins while Brady has 30.

  32. Revisionist history at its finest. People tend to forget how the tide turned against Joe. He sure wasn’t being called the greatest in his final seasons in SF. Washed up, was demoted at one point, Steve Young this and Steve Young that.

  33. “Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB”

    Why people thinks its better to sit home watching the SB from your couch than playing in it and losing I’ll never know.

    Obviously it isn’t, its just a sad excuse by people and feeble attempt to discredit Brady

  34. Cleariy, it’s Brady hence the GOAT status, universally.

    Cap Era vs Pre Cap. Montana had it easier with the same players year after year and easier competition due to how the league was set up.

    Case closed.

    Brady also didn’t do 3 1 and dones like Montana. lol

  35. Klopek says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:47 am
    Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB, Tommy Boy does

    —————–

    He also doens’t know what it’s like to win six of them….or to play for 20 years.

  36. charliecharger says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:26 am
    So if you compare QB’s by watching film, you’re not going to see a better QB than Montana, but if you compare trophies, Brady is the best ever. Bradshaw doesn’t get the respect he deserves. His tape is awesome too.
    ==
    Yeah, 2 SB MVPs and 1 NFL MVP, but often disregarded in the QB discussions. And he called his own plays. Not at the level of GOAT, but nice to see him mentioned.

  37. johnnycantread says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:03 am
    Mike Tyson deferred to Muhammad Ali as the greatest, and so should Brady to Montana.

    ——————-

    Even if it’s not true?

  38. Brady played for NE for 20 years in an era when passing rules were changed to allow for far more offense. Montana played 10 years for the 49ers in an era when Lyle Alzado, Lawrence Taylor, Deacon Jones and Mean Joe Greene were looking to kill people. That’s why players should just be rated by their era.

  39. I fully support the argument that it cant be debated because the game was different for each of them, and so we cant really say for sure who was better. That is a reasonable assessment to make. What is NOT a reasonable assessment to make is to say “Montana never lost a Super Bowl so he is better”. That is the stupidest argument of all time. That is literally the same argument that says Eli Manning was the best QB of the Manning family, because he never lost a Super Bowl, but Peyton did. No one, and I mean no one, would argue that Eli was better than Peyton. So dont be so foolish as to use that argument in the Brady / Montana debate.

  40. Klopek says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:47 am
    Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB, Tommy Boy does

    —-

    That’s because Joe flamed out early and was not even able to make it to more than 4 SBs…..Brady made it to 9.

  41. wolverineinnc says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:11 am
    Brady stays classy, as always
    ============
    unlike many of his fans…

  42. SWFLPC.INC says:
    April 9, 2020 at 9:25 am
    Klopek says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:47 am
    Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB, Tommy Boy does

    —-

    That’s because Joe flamed out early and was not even able to make it to more than 4 SBs…..Brady made it to 9.

    ——–

    Correct – that argument is one of the lamest – you can’t lose the Super Bowls you WEREN’T ABLE TO GET TO, because you lost before them. Because Brady was able to lead the Patriots to an astounding 13 AFC Championship games, should he then have won 13 Super Bowls? We have to give some of the other NFL teams credit as well when it was their year.

    Brady is the best – ever – at giving his team a chance to win by putting them in the position to do so over the longest period of time.

  43. So the guy who failed 5 more times to make it to the big dance is better than the gut who went 9 times? What kind of math is that?! You do realize by not making it to the Super Bowl in the postseason means you got bounced earlier. That means Joe Montana lost 5 more times in the playoff before reaching the Super Bowl than Brady. And in the big games Brady won more.

    Brady is better, full stop.

  44. Montana played against much tougher competition in his own conference. Brady never faced a team as good as the 80s Bears, Redskins or Parcells/Belichick Giants

    ——————

    SWFLPC.INC says:

    That’s because Joe flamed out early and was not even able to make it to more than 4 SBs…..Brady made it to 9.

  45. All right folks let’s break it down, Montana beat Dan Marino, John Elway, those two are all time greats, not to mention arguably top 5. Dont forget Cincinnatis d was a Dick Lebaeu defense, whos only in the hall of fame at three different postions, including d coordinator, not to mention the all time winningest coach in Don Shula. Compared to Jack Deholme and Donocan Mcnabb Ill take 16 any day. One more, Joe didnt need field goals for his rings! Hats off to TB12 for ultimate teammate and competitor.

  46. I agree Tom Brady is the best of all time easily. But just to play devils advocate to those saying Montana played inferior competition in the super bowl, in all fairness I think the Giants, Redskins, Bears, were a helluva lot better back then than any of the afc teams of this past generation. That being said, I still think Brady is the best.

  47. Because he’s not better than Montana. Niners organization was never fined for cheating, they never lost draft picks for cheating, their coach was never fined for cheating and Montana was never suspended for cheating. So of course he can’t say he is better than him
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Comments like these are hilarious. Jerry Rice admitted to using stickem. The 49ers offense is known to have sprayed silicon on their jerseys. Montana has joked in the past that if you ain’t cheating, you ain’t tryin. Yet, because there was no power hungry Rodger Goodell back in the 80s dealing out ridiculous suspensions, somehow this cheating doesn’t count against them?

  48. I generally hate these comparisons but there’s nothing else to do in sports. The 49ers existed in a time when teams could stockpile players, and Montana and later Steve Young were surrounded by talent. Building a roster is different now, the rules are different, but Brady was at the top of his era. I just think they were great players from two different eras, not worth trying to say one is better than the other. There is a lot more to both of those teams than just Brady or Montana, but there is no doubt that they were both essential to the success of their teams in their respective eras. I think that if you are comparing the success based on superbowls and playoffs, you must include Steve Young with Joe Montana because it shows the team’s ability to maintain excellence over a long period of time. In this case, Montana/Young were better than Brady over about the same span of time. If you do that, you must also include that both teams cheated, or at least disobeyed the rules. We are familiar with the many transgressions of the Pats, but the 49ers essentially tried to avoid the salary cap with secret contract provisions and they received minimal punishment for it. To sum it up, I think both players were essential components to being the best at their game. Montana was also objectively great on the Chiefs, so Brady has an opportunity to match that legacy in Tampa Bay.

  49. Is Montana even the best 49ers QB? Granted he won a 4 SBs with amazing defenses in each campaign but Young has just as good #s with only 1 SB. Joe had 100 wins in San Fran in 139 games. Young had 91 in 124. Montana had 244 TDs to Young’s 221. Montana 35.1k yards passing with Young at 29.1k. Young had better completion % (63.7 to 65.8), QB Rating (93.5 to 101.4) as well as rushing yards (1,595/20 TDs to 3,581/37 TDs). The SB victories set them apart for sure. Give Young those 15 games to match Montana’s SF game total and they would be near identical.

  50. To me every playoff game is the Super Bowl because it’s a one game elimination process. You lose, you go home. No one has won more playoff games than Brady. The best ever.

  51. las0023 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:40 am
    Montana played 10 years for a top franchise in an era when Lyle Alzado, Lawrence Taylor, Deacon Jones and Mean Joe Greene were looking to kill people. That’s why players should only be compared by era.

    Deacon Jones retired 5 years before Montana started. Mean Joe Greene played retired 2 years after Montana started. Good try.

  52. cincinnatikid13 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:46 am

    Ummm. NO, it doesn’t.
    You’re like the Monty Python argument clinic.

    And you completely missed the point.
    Brady has more superbowls, more TDs, more passing yards, etc. because HE PLAYED LONGER than Montana did. Ever watch that brutal hit Montana took by Jim Burt? Brady never would have played AGAIN if he took that.

    And Montana being taking out of the game after being pounded by Millard and Doleman? Again, different Era, different rules, shorter careers.

    Yes, it IS impressive that Brady sustained it. Yes, his ‘Longevity” should be noted as one of his great accomplishments. Truly amazing. No doubt.

    But saying he is “greater” because he did essentially the same things performance wise that Montana did over a longer period does not make him “greater” unless your DEFINITION of greater is “Same thing, but longer”

  53. One more, Joe didnt need field goals for his rings! Hats off to TB12 for ultimate teammate and competitor.
    —————

    You might want to so some research. SBXVI – Ray Werschling kicked 4 field goals and had 14 total points. In a 26-21 victory I would say the field goals definitely won the Niners that game.

  54. Brady has a stronger arm than Montana. Montana is a better scrambler. Brady has more rings, but Montana has never lost in the Super Bowl. It is hard to say who is better overall.

  55. One more, Joe didnt need field goals for his rings! Hats off to TB12 for ultimate teammate and competitor.

    ———————————

    If Pats defense had been able to contain opponents to 10 or less points, Brady wouldn’t have needed FG either.

  56. One more, Joe didnt need field goals for his rings! Hats off to TB12 for ultimate teammate and competitor.

    ———————————

    If Pats defense had been able to contain opponents to 10 or less points, Brady wouldn’t have needed FG either.

  57. Because he’s not better than Montana. Niners organization was never fined for cheating, they never lost draft picks for cheating, their coach was never fined for cheating and Montana was never suspended for cheating. So of course he can’t say he is better than him

    Yeah that would be wrong

  58. Brady is better than Montana. However neither is better than John Elway-the player not the GM

  59. Montana struggled in NFC playoff games, particularly against NYG, while excelling in Super Bowls against easier opponents. People seem to forget that.

  60. dannywhite11 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 10:34 am
    Is Montana even the best 49ers QB? Granted he won a 4 SBs with amazing defenses in each campaign but Young has just as good #s with only 1 SB. Joe had 100 wins in San Fran in 139 games. Young had 91 in 124. Montana had 244 TDs to Young’s 221. Montana 35.1k yards passing with Young at 29.1k. Young had better completion % (63.7 to 65.8), QB Rating (93.5 to 101.4) as well as rushing yards (1,595/20 TDs to 3,581/37 TDs). The SB victories set them apart for sure. Give Young those 15 games to match Montana’s SF game total and they would be near identical.

    ————

    He’s the best 49er QB for sure, but he’s not the best 49er. That’s Rice.

  61. That’s the difference between Brady and Montana. When everyone was saying Montana was the greatest QB of all time, he never disputed it. After Brady passed him in Super Bowl wins, Montana was asked if this meant Brady was the best ever and his response changed to “It’s hard to say. You think about guys like Otto Graham and where do they fit in…” Montana never cared about QBs from the 50s and 60s when he was #1, but now they’re important. Montana can’t admit that he’s been surpassed.

  62. The guys who discredit Montana because they never saw him play, should not comment. Brady was great no doubt. But don’t compare him if all you saw were highlights of Montana. Brady is a benefactor of all these protect-the-qb rules. He likely would have never stayed as healthy if the rules were still in effect. Anyone not believing that should just Google “Turkey Jones headplants Bradshaw” to see what defenses got away with, back in the day.

  63. collectordude says:
    April 9, 2020 at 8:22 am
    Would Brady have done as well in Montana’s era, when defenses could actually play defense?
    ==================
    We know the answer to this question, we just pretend that we dont for the sake of arguing against Brady. The answer is simple, Brady would have been fine. Look at the first 5 years of Brady’s career. Remember how the DBs used to grab, and hold, and hit players at the snap. And then the Colts whined and cried about it after the Pats demolished them in Foxboro in January, and the competition committee changed the rules. That didnt happen before Brady, that happened after Brady already had THREE rings. The babies that wanted more offense to help the Colts, didnt realize how much they were also helping Tom Brady.

  64. Montana? Not better than Rodgers or Manning either. Rodgers has to put up 37 points just to win a playoff game. And Manning has 5 MVPs, which you win by yourself and not have the team carry you like Brady’s SB wins.

  65. Brady is overhyped for sure, but just because you never lost a SB, so what? The times SF lost in the championship game is not better than getting to the SB and losing.
    Some of these sports notions just drive me nuts just like the Goat talk in the ultimate team sport.

  66. In Brady’s 5th best season, he won the SB. In Montana’s 5th best, he lost in the NFC Title game.
    In Brady’s 6th best season, he won the SB, In Montana’s 6th best, he lost in the NFC title game.

    Keep going through each of Brady’s 9 SB years and you’ll find that giving credit to Montana for never losing a SB is absurd. He lost earlier – sometimes waaaaay earlier, not even getting his team to the playoffs.

  67. tb12greatest says:
    April 9, 2020 at 11:06 am
    Montana struggled in NFC playoff games, particularly against NYG, while excelling in Super Bowls against easier opponents. People seem to forget that.
    +++
    I have no problem calling Brady the best QB. However, don’t act like AFCE was a juggernaut division for twenty years. Knocking down a player a notch or two to justify another’s greatness isn’t always a good thing.

    They are two of the greatest QBs to play. What’s wrong with just saying that?

    By the way, the NFC was extremely tough back in that time. They won 12 or 13 straight Superbowls.

  68. Montana? Not better than Rodgers or Manning either. Rodgers has to put up 37 points just to win a playoff game. And Manning has 5 MVPs, which you win by yourself and not have the team carry you like Brady’s SB wins.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Lolz sure buddy. Manning has 5 INTs and 3 TDs in his 4 SBs. Maybe the best regular season QB, but not close to Brady overall. Also, I didn’t know Manning threw TDs and passes to himself? Never heard of a QB doing it all by himself.

    Rodgers is laughable. He doesn’t win playoff games, when he actually makes them. Most over hyped QB in the history of the sport.

    It comes down to Brady and a very distant second Montana.

  69. Ever watch that brutal hit Montana took by Jim Burt? Brady never would have played AGAIN if he took that.
    ———————

    You ever see the hit Nate Clements put on Brady? Guess who got right back up? There goes that argument for you.

  70. Its Brady by a country mile and everyone, including Montana, knows it. Claiming Brady couldn’t play “when the rules were different” is a joke. He won 3 SBs in the early 2000s before any rule changes. Plus the players today are bigger, better, and faster. That’s just a fact.

    Montana was great and is an all-time great. But Brady smokes him in stats, wins, accomplishments, longevity, etc. Pretty much everything you judge a QB on Brady bests Montana. That’s the reason an overwhelming majority of the football world (including those QBs in the GOAT conversation) claim Brady is the best ever.

  71. You missed the point. They define the era and what games were like back then. It’s not about whether Montana got hit by anyone of those particular players.

    ———————-

    PFTCommenter says:

    Deacon Jones retired 5 years before Montana started. Mean Joe Greene played retired 2 years after Montana started. Good try.

  72. grant35 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 11:17 am
    The guys who discredit Montana because they never saw him play, should not comment. Brady was great no doubt. But don’t compare him if all you saw were highlights of Montana. Brady is a benefactor of all these protect-the-qb rules. He likely would have never stayed as healthy if the rules were still in effect. Anyone not believing that should just Google “Turkey Jones headplants Bradshaw” to see what defenses got away with, back in the day.

    ———–

    If you make that argument you also have to think about how big Brady is and how much slower players were and how much worse the defensive schemes were at that time. If you want to keep everything equal, Brady could have easily taking whatever punishment that the smaller Montana did and he would have torched those defenses. Of course, that’s why you can’t easily compare across generations. In Brady’s favor, lets not forget from 2001-2004 when Brady won 3 Super Bowls, many of the changes to protect QBs and WRs had not yet come into effect.

  73. schilhater says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:27 am
    ….Niners organization was never fined for cheating, they never lost draft picks for cheating,…

    Neither of the above statements are true. Although it is true that the Niners were never fined for some of the cheating they did during the Walsh/Montana/Rice/Seifert years such as using stickum (admitted to by Niners), and spraying silicone on the jerseys of their offensive linemen, they were in fact fined for cheating, and lost draft picks, for cheating on the salary cap during the Young/Rice/Seifert years. We just do not know all of the cheating they never got fined for; of course that is true of all 32 teams.

  74. As far as we know, Joe Montana wasn’t an admitted cheater. That automatically makes him better than Brady. All of Brady’s/Belicheat’s SB rings are tainted. That makes Montana the greatest ever in my book.

  75. As far as we know, Joe Montana wasn’t an admitted cheater.
    —————

    When did Brady admit to cheating? Keep up the tears. Those trophies are well deserved and not leaving NE.

  76. Jimmy McGill says:
    April 9, 2020 at 9:19 am
    Klopek says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:47 am
    Joe doesn’t know what it’s like to lose a SB, Tommy Boy does

    —————–

    He also doens’t know what it’s like to win six of them….or to play for 20 years.

    ————

    He also didn’t need to worry about FA, or who his receivers were going to be every year.

  77. Look at it this way,

    He who has the most toys wins. It’s not close. Owned 2 full decades.

  78. imthatguyx2 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 11:52 am
    tb12greatest says:
    April 9, 2020 at 11:06 am
    Montana struggled in NFC playoff games, particularly against NYG, while excelling in Super Bowls against easier opponents. People seem to forget that.
    +++
    I have no problem calling Brady the best QB. However, don’t act like AFCE was a juggernaut division for twenty years. Knocking down a player a notch or two to justify another’s greatness isn’t always a good thing.

    They are two of the greatest QBs to play. What’s wrong with just saying that?

    By the way, the NFC was extremely tough back in that time. They won 12 or 13 straight Superbowls.
    ————————–

    You made my point for me. People always talk about “Joe Montana was 4-0 in Super Bowls!” when the toughest opponents were in the NFC by far. It’s great to be 4-0, but if it’s against Denver or Cincinnati it’s not as impressive.

  79. I have watched football since 1958 and yes Montana was better than Brady. Bradshaw does not get the credit he deserves. He should be a top 5 quarterback. Johnny Unitas also a very good one.

  80. I go back to having seen Unitas and Starr live as a kid. Montana and Brady played in different eras. Montana had to absorb A LOT more physical punishment than Brady ever did (e.g., the playoff games agains the Giants in 1986 and 1990. You had to commit second degree murder to draw a roughing the passer call. Terry Bradshaw got pile driven head first into the ground by Joe “Turkey’ Jones.) That said, it is next to impossible to compare the greats across disparate eras. For those of my fathers and grandfather’s generation that saw them play live. Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham were the best QBs ever. In addition to multiple championships as QB, Baugh was a world class punter, and a fine DB. Graham played in a championship game for every year of his career. Point being – it is impossible to compare across eras.

  81. Joe doesn’t know how to lose in the SB because he’s used to losing earlier in the playoffs lol. Not a knock on Joe, but the 4-0 vs 6-3 comment is getting old.

  82. Love Bradshaw but he doesn’t belong anywhere close to this discussion. Even he knows better than that.

  83. Montana is still better than Brady. If fact I don’t even put Brady in the top 10 all time. When looking at best all time you have to try to put those older players in todays rules and vice versa.

    Can you imagine a player like Marino or Montana with their receivers with todays rules? Marino and Duper would be going for over 6k yards probably. I’m not sure Brady and Edelman, or whoever he has had recently would have done as well in the 70s and 80s when you could mug the WRs until the ball was released.

  84. Brady grew up idolizing Montana. Let’s not forget that he was at the timeless classic NFC championship game where Montana beat the Cowboys, propelling them into their 1st Super Bowl. That alone could be why he won’t try to claim he’s better. But I think that’s only part of it – he’s a classy guy and knows he doesn’t need to say anything, let history judge them both.

  85. I can’t recall reports that Joe Montana threw under inflated footballs during NFL games.

  86. The fact that whenever this subject comes up, the debate is long, and rages forever, is proof of only one thing. Sometimes some things are a tie. There is cases made for BOTH of them being the GOAT. All of you make pretty valid arguments for your favorite player. Sometimes as in life…..things are a tie, and you have co-winners. I know it won’t be popular, but to me I have room in my mind for both as co-best players ever. Both were phenomenal. I would take either in any all time Fantasy Football draft, and if choosing first, would have a hard time choosing. I understand the human mind always wants an answer….but sometimes that answer is “Both”.

  87. Lolz sure buddy. Manning has 5 INTs and 3 TDs in his 4 SBs. Maybe the best regular season QB, but not close to Brady overall. Also, I didn’t know Manning threw TDs and passes to himself? Never heard of a QB doing it all by himself.

    Rodgers is laughable. He doesn’t win playoff games, when he actually makes them. Most over hyped QB in the history of the sport.

    It comes down to Brady and a very distant second Montana.
    _______________________

    Rodgers laughable? Brady could only dream of making the throws that Rodgers pulls off consistently. Brady throws 5 yard passes to RBs and receivers and then they run for additional yards to get the first down. Wow, that really excites me. Use the eye test, buddy. Brady’s in a system that hides his limitations, which is smart, actually. You get 4 tries for 10 yards, not 20 on one play like most teams try to get. I love NE’s offensive approach to football. Brady benefits from a great coach and scheme. Thats why all QBs look great in that system.
    Brady doesn’t have the arm of Rodgers, the mind of Manning or the field generalship of Unitas. Montana, a distant second? Now, you’re just being stupid and lose all credibility.

  88. I have always said that Montana is the best QB I have ever seen in my lifetime. My reasoning was that Montana left SF and had a second team with a completely different system minutes away from a SB birth. If Briady goes to TB and gets them deep into the playoffs, I will change my view to Brady being the best QB I have seen in my lifetime.

  89. U have to go by eras.Montanna could have certainly played in Tommy’s 20 years but the question is could have Tom played in Joe’s time. Tom is a cry baby in today’s flag football time so he would have never made it taking the hits that Joe took. Plus now ur going to have to wait and see what mahomes does. Goat of an era but not all time. That can’t be determined.

  90. I am one of the old dogs that did Get to watch the likes of Montana, Plunkett, Bradshaw, and Tarkenton growing up. I am also very fortunate to have watched Brady and the Patriots create a two decades long dynasty after living through many of rather pedestrian football as a lifelong Pats fan.

    The argument I can’t stand to hear, as I think it is foolish, is that Brady or any player of today’s era couldn’t play in past eras. If that is the case, the opposite must hold true, that players from past eras couldn’t play today. I don’t believe in either is these statements. Also, each era had rules or lacked rules that don’t exist today or “back when.” But like the majority of today’s players, body mass is greater — perhaps a beneficiary of training and a reflection of the need to withstand hits from those bigger defensive linemen. The average weight has risen to about 224 — more than 20 pounds above the playing weights of Baugh, Starr and Montana.

    I honor respect an honor past players but if you mention Mean Joe, Deacon Jones, Lyle Alzado, or LT, are you saying that today’s QB’s don’t face real hit machines? What about lWatt, Donald, Mack, Bosa, Suggs, Strahan, Peppers, Urlacher, just to name a few.

    One thing is undeniable, that players today are undeniable and stronger. Yes, there are many exceptions. Here is an excerpt from the NFL’s website: “But like the majority of today’s players, body mass is greater — perhaps a beneficiary of training and a reflection of the need to withstand hits from those bigger defensive linemen. The average weight has risen to about 224 — more than 20 pounds above the playing weights of Baugh, Starr and Montana.“

    Could Brady have played in Montana’s era? Absolutely. He is smart, has the size, and has a very quick release. Could Montana play today? Absolutely. He was smart, quick, could scramble, To say otherwise for either player us just showing either hatred of a player/team, jealousy, or stupidity.

  91. Brady doesn’t have the arm of Rodgers, the mind of Manning or the field generalship of Unitas. Montana, a distant second? Now, you’re just being stupid and lose all credibility.
    —————

    The only credibility lost is yours. Brady has twisted your mind into carnival pretzel.

  92. Everyone has valid arguments … Brady without a doubt has won more consistently than Joe Cool, both played in different eras, though I believe QBs faced better pash rushers in Montanas era …

    The bottom line is this … both QBs had great releases of the football but Brady, unlike Joe, has always had an outstanding offensive line that has never gotten the credit it deserves. Montana always had a good but undersized line, and had to move around more where his instincts, took over …

  93. My reasoning was that Montana left SF and had a second team with a completely different system minutes away from a SB birth.
    ——————

    I do not know about minutes away from a SB. The Chiefs never lead in that game and lost 30-13.

  94. Michael Jones, Sr. says:
    April 9, 2020 at 1:52 pm
    I can’t recall reports that Joe Montana threw under inflated footballs during NFL games.

    ————

    No, but his HC was a pioneer in the disruption of stadium communication devices.

  95. dannywhite11 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 2:24 pm
    My reasoning was that Montana left SF and had a second team with a completely different system minutes away from a SB birth.

    ——————————–

    Favre came closer with his 2nd team than Montana did. If not for the butter-fingered Adrian Peterson there is no doubt in my mind that he would have hoisted another Lombardi with the Vikings.

  96. Jimmy McGill says:
    April 9, 2020 at 2:40 pm
    Your comment is awaiting moderation. This is a preview, your comment will be visible after it has been approved.
    dannywhite11 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 2:24 pm
    My reasoning was that Montana left SF and had a second team with a completely different system minutes away from a SB birth.

    ——————————–

    Favre came closer with his 2nd team than Montana did. If not for the butter-fingered Adrian Peterson there is no doubt in my mind that he would have hoisted another Lombardi with the Vikings.

    —————-

    edit: sorry, I forgot that the Vikes were actually his 4th team. Forgot about his Glanville year(s?) and his stint with the Jets.

  97. Favre came closer with his 2nd team than Montana did. If not for the butter-fingered Adrian Peterson there is no doubt in my mind that he would have hoisted another Lombardi with the Vikings.
    —————

    Still got to the NFCCG and was all busted up. He could barely walk and talk after that game. Manning went to the SB with two different teams twice. So that alone must make him better than Montana…

  98. Montana’s also had 164 starts to Brady’s 183.

    That’s an incredibly relevant piece of information in drawing any comparison between the two.

  99. Both are great and Brady is more accomplished, but I’d take Montana with the game on the line.

  100. Of course he is better. There’s no serious argument to the contrary, every meaningful stat and result combines into an inarguable case. Anyone who is arguing for Montana is a contrarian, troll, or a moron who doesn’t know what it’s talking about.

  101. mriddle4 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 3:17 pm
    Both are great and Brady is more accomplished, but I’d take Montana with the game on the line.

    ——–

    I guess you missed the SB against the Falcons

  102. v2787 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 12:31 pm
    As far as we know, Joe Montana wasn’t an admitted cheater. That automatically makes him better than Brady. All of Brady’s/Belicheat’s SB rings are tainted. That makes Montana the greatest ever in my book.

    —–

    Jerry “stickum” Rice says hello

  103. “ Brady’s in a system that hides his limitations, which is smart, actually. You get 4 tries for 10 yards, not 20 on one play like most teams try to get”

    —-
    So all other 31 teams are impossibly stupid? That’s your argument as to why Brady is considered the best ever and not Rodgers? Ohhhhh right—the magic ”system” (that amazingly, no one can figure out) is the winner, and anyone at all could play 20 years, throw for a zillion yards with a really low pick ratio, and get to 9 Super Bowls with it. It turns out that’s all there is to it.

    So dumb I wouldn’t even know where to start.

  104. Two horrible coaching decisions by opposing teams in the SB (ATL, SEA), the Tuck Rule, and Dee Ford lining up 2 inches offsides, are the only reasons that Brady wasn’t 2-5 in the Super Bowl. None of these had anything to do with him. Compare Montana’s rating in the Super Bowl to Brady. Montana also lost three years in his prime due to the ’82 Strike and torn elbow ligaments. Brady is more accomplished, but Montana was better. If we’re counting SB wins as the main factor, then Dilfer was better than Kelly, Marino, Tarkenton, Fouts, Moon, and Tittle.

  105. I watched Montana play on tv all the time and he was awesome. No doubt about it. But why does he get a free pass on certain things when Brady does not? People always bring up that Brady’s replacements have a 14-6 record. That is only 20 games missed by Brady. However Montana’s backups amassed 52 games starting under center with a 36-14-1 record. Why doesn’t anyone ever bring up that Joe was in a system to where any backup can come in excel?

    Cavanaugh 2-0

    Kemp 3-2-1

    Young 24-9

    Gagliano 1-1

    Bono – 5-1

    Moroski 1-1

    Take away Young and the others have a 12-5-1 record.

  106. Dilfer won 1 with the best defense since the ‘85 Bears. Brady won 6 with completely turned over rosters over two decades. Not remotely comparable.

    Also, by your flawed logic, with one play here or there that could realistically have changed outcomes, Brady could be 9-0 in Super Bowls.

    Funny how haters spin reality just because they don’t root for who the long-time champs are. It’s an attempt to make them feel better, but it clearly doesn’t.

  107. Everyone who is saying Brady is a class act must have forgotten about him trash talking Manning and um the cheating.

  108. Two horrible coaching decisions by opposing teams in the SB (ATL, SEA), the Tuck Rule, and Dee Ford lining up 2 inches offsides, are the only reasons that Brady wasn’t 2-5 in the Super Bowl.
    ———-

    Nice to discount the fluke plays, dropped passes by the offense and defense and an illegal formation that led to an Eagles touchdown. Right there should be 3 SB wins according to you. Truth is the Pats could just as easily be 9-0. Both can play this stupid game

  109. When I was a much younger man, I got to watch Montana play his entire career. I thought there could never be a greater quarterback. I was wrong. Brady and Manning (Peyton) are both better quarterbacks. Brady is the better of the two in all but one category, which he just might fix at Tampa Bay.

  110. Dear Patriots fans: calling people stupid and ignorant for disagreeing with you is why nobody ever agrees with you.

  111. Rodgers laughable? Brady could only dream of making the throws that Rodgers pulls off consistently. Brady throws 5 yard passes to RBs and receivers and then they run for additional yards to get the first down. Wow, that really excites me. Use the eye test, buddy. Brady’s in a system that hides his limitations, which is smart, actually. You get 4 tries for 10 yards, not 20 on one play like most teams try to get. I love NE’s offensive approach to football. Brady benefits from a great coach and scheme. Thats why all QBs look great in that system.
    Brady doesn’t have the arm of Rodgers, the mind of Manning or the field generalship of Unitas. Montana, a distant second? Now, you’re just being stupid and lose all credibility.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________

    Where to start with this ridiculous assessment? Let’s see – the only two seasons Brady had legitimate deep threats he was the MVP and led an offensive downfield juggernaut (2007 with Moss and 2017 with Cooks). So there goes the system argument again. He adapts to what he has to work with.

    He is the only player in the history of the game to win an MVP at the age of 40.
    He is the only QB to make it to 2 All Decade teams.
    He holds every major playoff record and stat
    He is the only QB to throw for over 500 yards in a SB
    He is overwhelmingly considered the GOAT by his peers (QBs on record saying this are Bradshaw, Rodgers, Aikman, Elway, Young, Farve, just to name a few)
    On and on and on

  112. That’s the correct answer.

    So hard to compare QBs across different eras. Nobody knows how good Montana would be today and Brady back then.

  113. Because he’s not. Nobody has benefited from the rules protecting the QB and emphasizing the passing game more than Brady (duh, the Brady Rule). He would have been out of the league in five years if he had played in Joe’s era and had to take the hits he took, and he knows it.

  114. Brady’s in a system that hides his limitations, which is smart, actually.

    —-
    Brady’s limitation was never throwing deep. He always had an excellent arm. If I were to analyze him objectively his real limitation is his habit in recent years of locking on to his favorite receivers instead of the open guy.

  115. Why do people bring rings into a debate like this? This is the ultimate team game. To win a Super Bowl, you need excellent coaching, great defense & generally at least some luck.

    Rings have almost nothing to do w/ who is the GOAT. That said, I’d give Brady the nod – but Montana was absolutely amazing. It’s closer than people allow for.

  116. I saw both of them play and while it is undeniable that Brady has better stats, I still think Montana was a better quarterback. There is an intangible quality that Brady just doesn’t have. No one does…not like Joe. It’s the “cool” factor. That’s nothing against him. He’s still great.

  117. I respect Brady, but Montana was a different cat altogether. I appreciate Brady’s complete respect for Montana though.

  118. Because he’s not. Nobody has benefited from the rules protecting the QB and emphasizing the passing game more than Brady (duh, the Brady Rule).
    ———-

    You mean the Carson Palmer Rule, duh. So Manning, Rogers, Brees…… None of them benefited from the rules either? Would all those QBs only last 5 years too?

  119. Brady is the GOAT when applying facts, stats, accomplishments, etc.

    Montana is the GOAT when applying hypotheticals and conjecture.

    Saying things like Brady could not have played in the 80s or Montana had some intangible quality that is not defined or Brady could not have taken the hits back then are not arguments. They are excuses for trying to prop up Montana since his stats, longevity, and accomplishments don’t come close to Brady.

  120. 4th quarter game on the line, Montana will get you a TD, Tom will get you in FG range.

  121. The AFC was so very weak compared to the NFC in the Montana era. So once the 9ers reached the big game, it was almost a foregone conclusion they would defeat the Bengals (26-20; 16-13), Broncos (55-10), and Dolphins (38-16). Only one of these games was competitive. If you look at the other SBs of this era, you can say the same thing of the other NFC representatives. Bears 46-10 over Patriots, Redskins 45-10 over Broncos and 36-20 over Bills, Giants 39-20 over Broncos and 20-19 over Bills (only exception), Cowboys 52-17 over Bills, 30-13 over Bills, and 27-17 over Steelers, and Packers 35-21 over Patriots.

  122. People give Tampa Bay Tommy credit for his answer as did I- but was there really any chance Brady would answer this question differently than he did?
    Who would?

  123. saints67 says:
    April 9, 2020 at 1:12 pm
    I have watched football since 1958 and yes Montana was better than Brady. Bradshaw does not get the credit he deserves. He should be a top 5 quarterback. Johnny Unitas also a very good one.

    As someone who watched his first pats game when a guy named gino was playing, nope. As a guy who watched JM every time he was on TV from ND to KC, nope.

    As a guy who saw every game televised that Bradshaw played, nope.

    As guy who’s parents have been to Johny U’s house for dinner, nope.

    How are RB’s,WR’s, Kickers, tacklers, returners judged? Numbers. Numbers. Numbers.

    Why judge QB’s differently? In what universe is 4-0>6-3?

  124. One is the GOAT on paper. The other is the GOAT on film. No argument. Choose your poison. Eli Manning, on paper is tied as the 5th best QB of all time. The film says something completely different. So like I said, choose your poison.

  125. I’m a HUGE Montana fan, but if Brady won’t say it I’ll say it for him. Brady was better than Joe. For a lot of reasons I won’t spend 2 hours listing. Best QB I’ve ever seen, and really not very close.

  126. nite2al says:
    April 9, 2020 at 1:58 pm

    Rodgers laughable? Brady could only dream of making the throws that Rodgers pulls off consistently.
    _____________________________

    BOTH your comments are ridiculous. Rodgers isn’t laughable, but if you think Brady can’t make all the throws then you need to go back and watch the 2nd half of the Carolina SB when he and Delhomme turned it into a shoot-out… as just ONE example.

    Don’t counter a lame statement with an even worse one.

  127. charliecharger says:
    April 10, 2020 at 8:42 am
    One is the GOAT on paper. The other is the GOAT on film. No argument. Choose your poison. Eli Manning, on paper is tied as the 5th best QB of all time.

    What paper has Eli Manning as the 5th best? The funny papers??

    Film, paper…any way you want to slice it, Brady is, at the very least, in the small handful of greats. There can be no rational denial of that.

  128. NinersFan1973 says:
    I have zero problem with someone saying Brady is the best ever. I do have a problem when people act like it can’t be debated. The eras are so different. Brady is the best of his era without question, but comparing Brady to Montana is as stupid as comparing Montana to Bart Starr or Sammy Baugh.
    ——–
    How are you defining an era? Tom Brady has been the best for almost 20 years, which would put him as the best of multiple era’s. 20 years.

  129. charliecharger says:
    One is the GOAT on paper. The other is the GOAT on film. No argument. Choose your poison. Eli Manning, on paper is tied as the 5th best QB of all time. The film says something completely different. So like I said, choose your poison.
    ———–
    Eli deserves more respect than he gets. He wasnt carried to those Superbowls. He stepped up and grabbed those Superbowls with amazing plays at the end of the games.

  130. qckappa says:
    April 9, 2020 at 7:48 am
    Well, even with all that being said, we’ll see if Tom can take the Bucs into the playoffs like Joe did the Chiefs.
    —————
    I’m excited to see what Brady can do as I think it’s a sneaky talented team
    But the Chiefs team Joe Cool joined had just come off 3 straight playoff appearances while the Bucs team Brady is joining has finished last in the division 8 of the past 11 years, so it’s slightly different.

  131. eaglesmancave says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:43 pm

    I saw both of them play and while it is undeniable that Brady has better stats, I still think Montana was a better quarterback. There is an intangible quality that Brady just doesn’t have. No one does…not like Joe. It’s the “cool” factor.
    ______________________________

    If you’re talking about being “cool under pressure”, Brady has absolute ice water in his veins – JUST like Joe – so you’d be wrong about that.

    If you’re talking about “being a cool dude,” then neither of them is really that, and you must think Namath is the GOAT.

  132. 4th quarter game on the line, Montana will get you a TD, Tom will get you in FG range.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    This can’t be a serious statement. If it were 2002, then maybe its accurate.

    SB vs. LA Rams – Brady throws a beauty to Gronk down the sideline to set NE up within the 5 yard line for a late 4th Q rushing TD.

    SB vs. Eagles – Brady scores 4th Q TD to give NE their only lead of the game before defense lets Foles carve them up

    SB vs. Atlanta – 28-3 late in the 3rd quarter. We all know how the rest of that game went

    SB vs. Seattle – 2 4th Q TDs against the LOB

    I’ll stop there because I think you get the point of how ridiculous that statement is.

  133. charliecharger says:
    April 10, 2020 at 8:42 am

    One is the GOAT on paper. The other is the GOAT on film. No argument. Choose your poison.
    ___________________

    WTF does that even mean? I watched BOTH these guys’ entire careers, and they’re both elite QBs on film and paper, I don’t know what you’re talking about.

    Brady’s tougher than Montana (don’t give me this crap about a different era, he took major hits in the first 10 years of his career, and the dude has started all 16 games except for ONE season since he became a starter), has (had) a much better arm, is every bit as accurate and every bit as great under pressure.

    The key is that I’ve seen Tom Brady do great things with middling teams, which is something I never saw Montana do. Brady carried mediocre offenses on his back and WILLED them to wins. There were times when he didn’t have great receivers and I almost expected him to just stick the ball in their facemasks if they couldn’t catch it – guys couldn’t HELP but make plays because his ball placement was just perfect.

    I hate to break it to the haters, but Deion Branch and Troy Brown were NOT great WRs, and Antowaine Smith was as mediocre as RBs come. It was BRADY who made those guys look great. On any other team, Branch was a 3rd string guy.

  134. eaglesmancave says:
    April 9, 2020 at 6:43 pm
    I saw both of them play and while it is undeniable that Brady has better stats, I still think Montana was a better quarterback. There is an intangible quality that Brady just doesn’t have. No one does…not like Joe. It’s the “cool” factor. That’s nothing against him. He’s still great.

    ——

    Then why did Joe flame out most years and not even get his team to the SB?

  135. Criteria? Brady, unquestionably, has been elite or great or whatever, far longer than any player in NFL history (that wasn’t a kicker). What about one game, with a QB on his best day, who do you want to win that one game for you? That is much more debatable.

  136. blessedunliketherest says:
    April 10, 2020 at 10:53 am
    4th quarter game on the line, Montana will get you a TD, Tom will get you in FG range.
    —-
    Tell the 2016 Falcons about that time Brady could only get his team in FG range.,,

  137. Let’s see, Montana regularly had to beat either Bears, Giants or Redskins in the 80’s to reach the SB. And the Patriots had to beat, um, which defensive juggernaut(s) to get to SB??? Oh yeah, the Patriots were the defensive juggernaut of the AFC all those years. Not Colts, Steelers nor Ravens. I’ll give em both a bye for playing in pathetic Divisions. NFC of 80’s much, much more difficult than AFC of Brady era.

    Montana would have won as much, if not more, on Patriots. I’m not as confident saying the same had Brady been leading 49ers in the 80’s.

  138. The biggest difference is many QB’s play at a time where defenses could just cream the QB and Tom got to play when the QB were very protected. It’s a stark difference. So there would have been lots more injuries and we will never know if he lasted as long as he has. I think of him as a top ten but not top 5.

  139. I’ve watched all of both of their careers. As a pure passing quarterback, team leader and basic athletic skills, Joe Montana is the better QB. In terms of total career, Tom has stats that will be very difficult to beat. Will be interesting to see how Tom does with a mediocre team.

  140. “Will be interesting to see how Tom does with a mediocre team.”

    FB is a team sport. We’ll see how TB12 does with a mediocre team AND coach.

  141. Football is a completely different sport compared to the 80’s, you might as well be comparing Babe Ruth to Pele

    It’s OK to call both of them great without having to rank or compare the two.

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to leave a comment. Not a member? Register now!

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.