Warren Moon: Tom Brady and Drew Brees have lost arm strength, just like I did

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Hall of Fame quarterback Warren Moon was 44 years old when he made his last NFL start, so he’s one of the few people who have experienced what Tom Brady and Drew Brees are doing right now, playing quarterback into their 40s. And Moon has some bad news for Brady and Brees: Father Time catches everyone.

Moon says that he can see a deterioration in the arm strength of Brady and Brees, and it’s the same deterioration that he himself suffered from at the end of his career.

“I can see — especially later in the season, and you can see this with Drew Brees and some of the other quarterbacks as well — their arms don’t have the same pop at the end of the season that they had early in the year,” Moon told Colin Cowherd, via MassLive.com. “That has to do with their age, and that’s something I started to see in my career when I got older, that I didn’t have that same pop in my arm. A lot of it has to do with your legs because you’ve just become fatigued over the course of the whole season.”

Moon said Brady can be successful at age 43 this season, just not the same quarterback he was in his best years with the Patriots.

“You saw Tom’s arm that same way at the end of last year,” Moon said. “It’s not a huge deterioration to where he can’t throw certain routes, but there will be times when it gets later into the year you’re going to see some of that take its place. He has great talent around him [in Tampa Bay], which is great, and he doesn’t have to do as much on that football team, which will be good for him at this stage of his career. So I still think he’s gonna have success because of those reasons, but he’s not the same quarterback he was three or four years ago.”

Brady takes motivation from people doubting him, so those comments may go on his bulletin board. Brady will try to prove Moon wrong, but that gets harder with each passing year.

47 responses to “Warren Moon: Tom Brady and Drew Brees have lost arm strength, just like I did

  1. ……but unlike those other sandbaggers.

    The Greatest QB of All Time has……….

    #count’em6!!!!!!!

  2. Moon was a tremendous player and I would agree with everything he said. Tomasina’s decline was pronounced in the last six games or so. Brees didn’t seem as weak, but then again the New Orleans Cupcakes need an excuse for their failures so referees are more to explain than Brees’ arm. If Moon is correct, then both players will have issues this season – they might have a good opening month, but it will be telling going into the second month. Hopefully the offenses will adjust to selectively throw deep and to use YAC as the basis for short to medium routes with superior route running to pad the throw results.

  3. Moon was half the QB as these 2 playing in a time with half the knowledge of career longetivity and endurance. Your argument is invalid Warren.

  4. Brees has out performed every NFL QB over the last 3 Seasons.
    There is no such thing as “QB WINS”
    Brady won 6 Superbowls?
    Wow, and all this time I thought the Patriots won 6 Superbowls, with great Defense (Keeping the Rams to 3 points, intercepting Russell Wilson on the goal-line, etc.) great special teams great coaching.

  5. I saw Aaron Rodgers still throw a ball 78 yards at training camp last summer. Most good QB’s can throw a ball 65 yards tops. Aaron
    still has the cannon. If Moon is correct and you lose some after 40, then Aaron has just over 3 years of cannon left. Then we go to Jordan Love who also has absolute cannon.

  6. Brees has out performed every NFL QB over the last 3 Seasons.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    He did? Is that why he won the MVP the last three seasons? Is that why he missed 5+ games last year and his back up never missed a beat? Is that why his playoff performances the last few years have been well below par? In 2017, he did not outperform Brady. In 2018, he did not outperform Mahomes. In 2019, he did not outperform Lamar Jackson.

  7. Of course they have lost arm strength. That’s why Brady split practice reps with Stidham and did not even throw some days.

    The difference is while they are not ‘mobile’ QB’s, they are better than that – they can still move around the pocket better than the so called ‘mobile’ QB’s, which gives them more time and more time to deliver a good pass.

  8. Please lets not compare WM anything to Brady and Brees, that’s just insane.

  9. As a Pats fan since ’86 I have to say there was a significant drop off with Brady last year. It was very obvious with his accuracy too. I wish him the best in Tampa Bay this year but the expectations I’m afraid are going to be hard to live up to, even for him.

  10. Lets face it when we talk ARM TALENT no one who watch this game will ever bring up a Picture of Tom Brady. he is here because of WINNING, thats why i put him in the category of Winning QB but lets not confuse that with ELITE Talent or ARM. there is a huge difference here.

    I can’t stress enough how folks don’t hate Dynasties they only hate the ones thats NOT EXCITING or has transcending players with AMAZING talent we all can’t wait to tune in to watch on Sundays. I never took it upon myself to watch any patriot games until it was the playoffs or they were playing a team with an exciting player i want to watch.

    Tom Brady is your quintessential DINK and DONK statue QB who never once got me off my chair because of a throw or a play he made. He is truly your Tony Parker and lets face it the Patriots were the equivalent of your San Antonio Spurs who i never cared for from a spectator point of view. Case and point just look at the Bulls with jordan and the Lakers with Magic Johnson we couldn’t get enough of these dynasties come playoff time.

  11. No one beats Father Time. The best you can hope for is a good rear guard action to delay the inevitable. Which is not to say its not worth the battle. What Brady is trying to do is unprecedented, winning a SB at 45 would be an exclamation point of an already unprecedented career.

  12. Remember when Tom Brady dinked and donked to lead the league and claim the (at the time) record for touchdowns thrown in a season, while also getting Randy Moss the record for most receiving TDs in a season?

    So many dinks and dunks. So many.

  13. He’s not wrong. You could see it last year, especially with Brees. The Titan’s dared Brady to beat them deep and he couldn’t do it. Part of that was the receivers but I think you’ll see the same thing this year.

  14. blessedunliketherest says:
    June 10, 2020 at 10:32 am
    Brees has out performed every NFL QB over the last 3 Seasons.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    He did? Is that why he won the MVP the last three seasons? Is that why he missed 5+ games last year and his back up never missed a beat?

    ^ That’s a great point, the Saints dod go 5-0 with teddy Bridgewater who is OK but nothing special, so that begs the question, when do we start calling Drew Brees a “System QB”?

  15. “Arm Talent “ the most overrated attribute for a QB

    Obviously he has enough “Arm Talent “ to last as long as he has.

    I can list 10 QBs that may have stronger arms and you would be crazy to take any of them over Brady

  16. bucdan says:
    Remember when Tom Brady dinked and donked to lead the league and claim the (at the time) record for touchdowns thrown in a season, while also getting Randy Moss the record for most receiving TDs in a season?
    ==

    That was 13 years ago, ancient history in football years. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Tom Brady’s arm strength or style of play today.
    Remember when Brady, who gets credit for “QB wins” in the NFL record book, took a “QB loss” on the biggest stage at the conclusion of that same season? Isn’t he the one who always says that winning is more important that statistics or anything else?
    Look, Brady is an all-time great, maybe the best ever. But he’s human, like everyone else, not the demigod some Patriots fans — and now apparently some Tampa Bay fans — want to make him out to be.

  17. So many dinks and dunks. So many.

    —————————-

    You can complete passes, but it doesn’t mean you can score.

    Do you rather throw to a WR behind defenders, or to a receiver while defenders can watch both him and your eyes at the same time?

  18. There is no such thing as “QB WINS”

    The official NFL record book disagrees

    —————————

    Go check how many teams could have made to SB and could have won SB if their QB had been able to score 24-31 points in back to back playoff games, plus time-control offense against top elite offense (so to keep them off the fields to help defense)

  19. ahzroc says:
    June 10, 2020 at 10:09 am
    Brees has out performed every NFL QB over the last 3 Seasons.
    There is no such thing as “QB WINS”
    Brady won 6 Superbowls?
    Wow, and all this time I thought the Patriots won 6 Superbowls, with great Defense (Keeping the Rams to 3 points, intercepting Russell Wilson on the goal-line, etc.) great special teams great coaching.

    ——

    So tell me, what statistic is NOT a team statistic then? Did Brees complete passes or throw TDs to himself?

  20. Great point about how arm strength isn’t a constant and how it can decrease as the year goes on from fatigue. You see this in baseball pitchers all the time. It’s not like a guy shows up one day and his fastball is totally gone. He’ll still be able to throw hard but he won’t be able to throw hard for as long and there’ll be the occasional throw where the velocity just isn’t there.

  21. Didnt the Pat’s offer him a 2 year deal at $60M? Unprecedented for a player of his age. He left for a lesser deal, likely tired of the Pat’s suffocating management style of doing business. Can you blame him?

    Personally, I think Brady would have been off retiring after his last SB win. Ride off in the sunset ala Elway, Manning. It served them well.

  22. Sports science and training as evolved a lot since Moon was playing. I still remember the days when Guy Lafleur used to smoke during hockey intermissions and football training camps were actually used just to get players back into shape.

    So while father time is undefeated, QBs can extend their careers a bit longer than before.

  23. Didnt the Pat’s offer him a 2 year deal at $60M? Unprecedented for a player of his age. He left for a lesser deal, likely tired of the Pat’s suffocating management style of doing business. Can you blame him?

    No, they did not offer him that deal

  24. Agree with Moon. P. Manning couldn’t throw as good and still won a SB later in career. It’s a Team game.

  25. Patriots reportedly offered Tom Brady two years at $25 million per season.

    _____

    That was a fair offer. My point is, he took the same deal with TB. He quit on the team that made him a GOAT and left. Very rare in professional supports. Pat’s wanted him back.

  26. I guess we’ll see if Brady’s weirdo diet is really magical after all…highly doubtful.

  27. Moon is absolutely right, I can’t really peg how I think Brady will do in Tampa this year. Sure, he probably has some of the best WR’s and TE’s in the game, but his O-Line is garbage and his run game is even worse.

    It’ll probably be hard for Brady with lost arm strength and having to run for his life, the lack of a run game means 8 men in the box too, not the best strategy for a championship.

  28. Brady is the enemy now. Hopefully Tampa gets to the SB and loses to the Jets by 3 – the team he hates most in the NFL.

  29. I mean he’s not wrong, but it’s an obvious statement. Of course you will lose physical attributes as you get older, it’s just nature.

    That being said, arm strength is overrated here. Brees has had a noodle arm for like a decade now and he’s been fine. A decline in arm strength doesn’t mean Brady can’t throw, he can still sling it when he has to, and still has a stronger arm than some other younger QBs.

  30. Oh and Peyton Manning somehow won a Super Bowl with an 8th grader’s arm strength.

  31. P. Manning couldn’t throw as good and still won a SB later in career. It’s a Team game.
    ——————————–

    Brees and Rodgers would have made back to SB if they could have done what Brady did :

    Score 24-31 points in back to back playoff games, plus time-control offense.

    Don’t pull stupid BS with the case that defense can suffocate opponent offenses.

  32. This is obvious to anyone watching. They’re both fried physically. Brees looked terrible late last year, and Brady looked terrible all of last year physically. Father Time is undefeated.

  33. So is Warren Moon saying these two QB’s are getting older? Wow, ok. Deep Breath. Next you’re going to say they may not play much longer!

  34. Brady was a 6th round compensatory pick who worked and studied his way to being the goat. Brady never had the greatest physical talents but his dedication and clutch play was off the charts. He makes Jason in Halloween look like a quitter.

    Why would any fan want to tear him down? I just don’t understand that mentality.

  35. It was Bill more than Brady.

    You’ll see.
    – Patriot fan
    —————————–

    One of the reasons Brady left Pats.

    BTW, Pats wouldn’t have won a single SB without a QB who had the skills to use cheap short slot receivers.

  36. Sean Payton, when Brees was injured ( he’s missed 1 game since Junior year in High School, 1995) completely retooled the Saints offense to fit Bridgewater’s talents as opposed to brees. Pretty smart move! Then, when Brees came back for the Cardinals game, they seemlessly switched back to the Brees offense.

  37. Per “Football Outsiders”:
    “Decade Totals
    We went back and accumulated passing, rushing, and receiving DYAR in every regular-season game for every player in the league in the last 10 years. By total DYAR, here are the most valuable quarterbacks since 2010. Games and DYAR-per-game numbers are also given so you can see which of these players were most effective in the fewest outings.
    Your most valuable quarterback of the decade is Drew Brees of the New Orleans Saints, the NFL’s all-time leader in completions, yards, and touchdowns. In second place is Tom Brady of the New England Patriots, who is also in second place in each of those passing categories. It’s important to note that these numbers are for the regular season only. In most cases, the gap in these tables from one player to the next was so large that it wasn’t worth looking up what effect a handful of playoff games might have had. In this case, however, the gap was more narrow, and Brady’s edge in playoff opportunities (23 games to Brees’ 10) might have been enough to overcome the regular-season difference and crown him the decade’s top quarterback. So we put in the legwork, and yes, as it turns out, the postseason made a difference. Brady totaled 2,770 DYAR in the playoffs, bringing his overall total to 17,095 DYAR. Brees’ playoff total of 1,352 DYAR leaves him with an overall total of 16,596. However, this does not necessarily mean Brees was the lesser performer in the postseason — he averaged 135.2 DYAR per game in the playoffs, compared to 120.4 for Brady. Any way you slice it, the margin between Brees and Brady was so close this decade that there’s little reason to argue in favor of one or the other.

  38. Still amazes me how many Pats “fans” feel the need to drag down Brady now that he’s left. He gave more to the franchise than anyone else bar Kraft and Belichick, and without him I doubt the Patriots have any SB wins to date.

    Yes, it hurts that he’s left, but he earned the right to get a few last shots in at a 7th. That was not going to happen if he stayed.

  39. I would NEVER doubt the wisdom of Bill Belichick and he voted with his feet. He let Tom go—and he had to convince the owner that this was the time to do this. Belichick has won with so many different people in his lineup that its amazing. I suspect the fans will see the degradation of Brady’s arm strength very quickly in the season. May by the 4th quarter of the first game.

  40. Per PFF:
    “Highest-graded quarterbacks on first-read throws (2018-19, regular season only, min. 100 attempts)”
    #1) Brees
    #2) Mahommes
    Looking first at how quarterbacks fared on just “first read” plays, it isn’t simply a list of flawed quarterbacks who can’t thrive in more complete passing offenses — elite quarterbacks are also elite throwing to their first reads. Over the past two seasons of play, Drew Brees (comfortably) and Patrick Mahomes lead the pack in terms of PFF grade on those first-read plays.”

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