Bill Belichick reportedly ignored scouts in drafting N’Keal Harry

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Last week’s comments from Patriots owner Robert Kraft, covered extensively here and on PFT Live, included a blunt and candid assessment of the team’s recent failures in the draft.

“Really, the teams who draft well are the ones who will be consistently good,” Kraft told reporters last Wednesday. “I don’t feel like we’ve done the greatest job the last few years and I really hope and believe I’ve seen a different approach this year. In the end, it all comes down to what happens on the field and how people execute and you really don’t know how good a draft is for at least two years.”

Two years after the 2019 draft, we know that first-round receiver N'Keal Harry has not been good. Albert Breer of SI.com recently reported that coach Bill Belichick ignored his personnel department in picking Harry over players like Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, both of whom were preferred by the team’s scouts. Belichick ignored that input and instead took Harry, based on Harry’s performance during a non-workout visit to the team and Belichick’s relationship with Harry’s college coach, Todd Graham.

Breer interprets Kraft’s reference to a “different approach” as reflecting an indication that Belichick is now listening more to those in the building who are setting the table for Belichick.

That said, Kraft also could have been referring to the fact that there’s a different person ultimately setting the table for Kraft, given the departure of former V.P. of player personnel Nick Caserio for the Texans. Although source-guessing is regarded by some in this business as a no-no, it’s impossible to ignore the reality that Breer interviewed Caserio just last week. Also, given that Kraft’s critique of the teams recent drafts and reference to a “different approach” easily could be interpreted as an indictment of Caserio, it makes sense for Caserio — who is no longer muzzled by Belichick — to be the one to tell the story of Belichick going off the board for a player who has become a bust, in order to deflect any criticism away from Caserio, especially as it relates to the ill-fated selection of Harry.

Regardless of whether the information came from Caserio, it’s undeniable that Caserio is mentioned nowhere in Breer’s 435-word blurb regarding recent draft failures in New England. Given his title and the fact that he’s the most significant change from recent years to this year, it’s impossible not to at least consider the possibility that Kraft was referring at least in part to Caserio when citing the different approach that the owner has seen.

And regardless of whether Kraft was calling out Belichick or Caserio or both, the team’s history of drafting and developing high- to mid-round receivers over the past 20 years has been largely abysmal, with players who ultimately busted includingHarry in 2019, Malcolm Mitchell in 2016, Aaron Dobson and Josh Boyce in 2013, Taylor Price in 2010, and Chad Jackson in 2006.

114 responses to “Bill Belichick reportedly ignored scouts in drafting N’Keal Harry

  1. Malcolm Mitchell wasn’t a bust. I would suggest he was the best receiver the Pats drafted in the entire decade. Injuries were what caused his career to fizzle.

  2. “Different approach” means he told BB to stop drafting his college pals players and the Patriots aren’t his little empire to use to shower his family and friends with favors. He’s been doing this for a long time. Meanwhile, the GOAT had had enough of that selfishness and rode out of dodge to take a 7-9 team to a championship.

  3. By far the worst drafting GM in the league the past 5 years. Ready to debate? 🤔👌

  4. “Although source-guessing is regarded by some in this business as a no-no,I’m going to do it anyhow.”

  5. My guess, if Kraft really wants a different approach, he needs to move on from BB. However, there is a feeling of a “different approach” in that the Patriots have been extremely aggressive in free agency this season. Very different from the Patriots’ approach in prior years.

  6. It’s no secret that the Patriots have been drafting poorly for years. Belichick does what he wants during the draft, and it isn’t always the best move. He’s one of the best head coaches in the league, but he’s also one of the *worst* GMs in the league when it comes to running a draft.

  7. Mitchell wa not a nust, he played a substantial role in winning a SB; his knees did indeed fail him and his career was short lived- but nowhere near bust category- of those mentioned only Harry was a first rounder- still the Pats draft record for WR’s has got to be the worst ever over such an extended period of time

  8. But the Patriots have been consistently good, Mr. Kraft. Patriots have one bad year and it’s like the end of world.

  9. Belichick is the GOAT. He’s been doing the same thing the entire time he’s won six Super Bowls. When Tom Brady was his QB, every move was a GOAT move. Now that Brady’s gone, all the bad decisions show up brighter. Brady covered up all the mistakes for years, just as all great QB’s do. After all, why would the GOAT listen to anyone? He’s smarter than everyone else. Or so we thought. Do you all see how smart Bruce Arians looks now?

  10. Malcolm Mitchell was hardly a bust. He was a very good player that had a career ending injury. That’s not predictable.

  11. Brady made Belichick. PERIOD.

    Belichick was nothing special in Cleveland and New York before Brady and he’s been nothing special since Brady left. Looking forward to Buffalo and Miami dominating the AFC East again this season.

  12. Your insight to the Pats inability to draft and coach up WRs is spot on, although I take a bit of an exception with Malcolm Mitchell as he did pretty well in his short time, really clicked late in his rookie season and had some clutch playoff/SB catches. Injuries derailed his entire career shortly after, I wouldn’t call that a bust on the Patriots part, more unlucky.

  13. It’s not fair to lump Malcolm Mitchell into the “bust” category, as he was very effective until injuries ended his career. I guess Gale Sayers was also a “bust” by that reasoning.

    The other guys though – all horrible picks.

  14. I agree with you. Mostly. But Mitchell had injury issues and made some contributions during his one season and huge plays in a Super Bowl.

  15. Once again BB had to make it about himself. The Pats could use a seasoned GM and let BB stick to coaching

  16. Malcolm Mitchell was good and would have had a nice career without injuries that forced him to retire. He was instrumental in the Pats SB win over the Falcons.

    Other than that, the list is bust-worthy.

  17. Take any team over last 20 years and most have a negative sign in the draft process. I’m definitely not a patriots fan but it’s been no contest who the best coach has been and he has the trophies to prove it. As with most things and cycles everything comes to an end. Is it the end of new england’s reign? I certainly hope so but we’re about to find out.

  18. Belichick is the ultimate decision maker for all Pats football moves. The draft failures are on him. What’s the old saying: “ absolute power corrupts absolutely”, that has happened with Belichick in Foxboro.

  19. but but but…i thought that touchback guy said belichick was a straight genius at everything and just flat out better than everybody at everything. hmmm, maybe that touchback guy really is just a bag of hot air like we have all thought all along

  20. Before the inevitable starts, try to remember- it’s a LOT harder to draft well when you draft in the 30s every year as opposed to drafting in the top ten, if not top 5, every year.

  21. Wide receiver is the one position the Patriots have been consistently horrible at evaluating in the draft under Belichick.

    He should probably defer to his scouts, at least when it comes to this position where he evidently has a major blind spot.

  22. “coach Bill Belichick ignored his personnel department in picking Harry over players like Deebo Samuel and A.J. Brown, both of whom were preferred by the team’s scouts.”
    ————————

    Belichick has final say on player personnel. Period. It’s his perogative to how he uses scouting reports, not the other way around.

    And with 6 Super Bowls as a result, this is like complaining a supermodel has pointy elbows and not worthy of dating…

  23. As if anyone would know that. It hasn’t worked out so far obviously, but assuming that BB went against everyone in his org is nonsense.

  24. It’s so easy to see for the real football fan but not for bb’s koolaid drinkers,that NE wouldn’t have won One Superbowl without TB12,…NE will probably make a playoff push while bb is still there But we all know he’ll Never make or Absolutely Not win one Without the Man who Carried the franchise not with just his play but with his cap friendly salary when bb made sure that he was a Top paid coach..I believe bb will keep the team respectable but he’s not the GOAT Of that franchise TB12 was in All aspects.

  25. The Patriots have never been really great at the draft. Brady covered up for a lot of holes on that team.

  26. Albert Breer. bawahhah

    When your qb is Tom Brady and he wants veterans who are further along, you don’t really draft WRs. Rattling 4 or 5 names in 20 years doesn’t mean much when drafting 28-32 overall all the time.

    All of the names mentioned were 3rd or mid rd picks meant to be developed. Harry was the highest pick ever taken and didn’t exactly have the besy qb experiences the last 2 year in a pandemic.

    The playbook and system is by far and away the most complex in the nfl. Torry Holt and Reggie Wayne both retired over it. lmao

    .The qb doesn’t just chuck the ball up in the air and let the wrs run for it in man coverages like every other team. The only execptions BB ever made like that was with Randy Moss. The guy ran like maybe 5-7 routes from the Z.

    Not to mention, Harry had no qb the last 2 years. One pouted and shunned, the other can’t throw or process the offense.

    If the source was better than Breer, this might be a good story. Alas, it’s more trollwork.

    Jakobi Meyers is a stud in the making and you simply hear nothing about him. Telling.

  27. Now that the opportunity to win a ring in NE has become a long shot, what is the incentive for a player to sign with the Patriots? They have no QB, they are located in a bad weather area, they have been historically low paying thinking players would sacrifice some income in an attempt to win a ring, a division rival appears ready to dominate and is set at QB for the next 10 years or so, and now it appears the coach/GM has lost a few miles per hour off of his fastball as he rapidly approaches his 70th birthday. So I ask again, what is the incentive to sign there if you have other choices?

  28. Jon R says:
    April 6, 2021 at 7:17 am
    It’s no secret that the Patriots have been drafting poorly for years. Belichick does what he wants during the draft, and it isn’t always the best move. He’s one of the best head coaches in the league, but he’s also one of the *worst* GMs in the league when it comes to running a draft.

    0 1 Rate This

    —————-

    This just isn’t true.

    Go ask Rodgers, Brees and Manning how great their respective team architechts were.

    Belichick built 2 different dynasties in the cap era and has never tried to draft a supertar wr, mainly because he doesn’t want to divert funds away from the middle part of the roster. He knows it doesn’t work.

    How many super bowls do teams win with star wrs that the team drafted? Maybe 1.

    And, he’s never drafted high enough to really fo do so anyway.

  29. This is the least surprising, yet most frustrating thing I hope to hear all day..the guy never listens to his scouts and as a pats fan that drives me nuts especially looking back at all the MONUMENTAL busts and wasted 2nd rounders😵

  30. I lost a lot of respect for Nick Caserio with this one. This is the classic, point out the one situation where you were right and the other guy was wrong and use it to conflate the entire situation. Lets go pick for pick over the last 10 years, where Nick stood and where Belichick stood. Seems to me that the Patriots roster got a lot worse after Scott Pioli left and Nick was running the personnel department. So pointing out one pick that you got right proves nothing. Scouts in the NFL do that all the time.

  31. Yes the draft hasn’t been the best the last couple of years but super bowls were won so it worked out. The story on Harry might be true but albert was the same guy who said red sox fans weren’t racists shouting out slurs from the crowd

  32. This is like looking at the Patriots forest and seeing the one dead tree in the back right.

  33. If you go back and review the “experts” views of the top WRs in the 2019 draft class everyone had N’Keal Harry somewhere near the top of the list. So it’s not like NE chose a guy that no one thought would be any good.

    Another guy near the top of these rankings was Paris Campbell who has been an even bigger bust than Harry.

    Hindsight is always 20-20 in these situations.

  34. regarding drafted receivers not working out in New England over the last decade or so, if your being honest you have to take into account how Brady viewed working with “raw” talent, especially at the end of his tenure in New England…. Brady wanted veteran receivers and was tired of “training” rookies. You can debate how and why that evolved but it is a fact.

  35. Subtract Tom Brady from Bill’s record and then remember why the browns fired him.

  36. short, stocky bald man says:
    April 6, 2021 at 6:46 am
    Tom Brady was the only reason they won
    =============
    Randy Moss says “Hi”

  37. He’s one of the best head coaches in the league

    —————————————-

    Rex Ryan made to AFCCG twice.

    Belichick is on a mission now to catch up with Rex Ryan.

  38. You can speculate all you want, but the FACT is that Robert Kraft said that he didn’t like the drafting in recent years and changes need to be made. If he said that out loud and in public, it’s safe to assume he’s discussed it with Bill Belichick. So IF there’s a problem with BB not listening to scouts (and that’s IF), then it’s been addressed between the owner and the GM and we’ll see what happens.

    To say Malcolm Mitchell was a bust is a flat-out error that needs to be fixed. He started his rookie year with an elbow injury suffered in a preseason game. (Hard to watch.) But he recovered and became a terrific WR, especially in the Super Bowl. Unfortunately, he was lost to injury after that, but that’s very different from being a bust. He was a very talented receiver and a very high character guy. Heck, I even bought his jersey (which I don’t do at all often) and still wear it proudly.

  39. Brady wanted veteran receivers and was tired of “training” rookies.

    ———————–

    Since 2015, after seeing what Brady was able to do with Shane Vereen, Belichick started a strategy of “finding gold among rocks” :

    — he threw dozens of cheap receivers or old veteran WR to Brady, WITH NO IDEA WHO WOULD BE GOOD FITS, let Brady work his ass off to figure out if any of them would fit, while he shamelessly took all the credits of building an offense that was better than Packers and Saints offense in playoff.

    The fool and other Pats coaches thought they could do the same without Brady (CHECK WHAT HE DID TO CAM), that is why they laughed at those who spent big in free agency.

  40. Belichick built 2 different dynasties in the cap era

    ———————————

    That is not that hard when a coach has a QB who doesn’t need top paid WR, doesn’t need top paid O-line, and still produce top 10 offense and plays better than Rodgers and Brees in playoff.

    Figure out the order of the result and the reason first.

  41. QB and WR are the two positions that Belichick should leave up to the scouts. Put the stubborn GM thing aside for those 2 positions. That’s where he is his own worst enemy.

  42. ariani1985 says:
    April 6, 2021 at 7:03 am
    By far the worst drafting GM in the league the past 5 years. Ready to debate? 🤔👌\

    Sure! If you wanted to argue top 5-10 worst I’d agree. THE worst ?!?!?! Not really. Especially when you have the Jets and Eagles on the list. I would argue the Bengals, Broncos and Cardinals would give New England a run for their money as well. It’s also funny that we look at just the last 5 years. If you extend it out to 10 years the Patriots are likely a top 10 performer. This isn’t to say New England doesn’t deserve the scrutiny over the past 5 years. Every year we know there is a line in the sand where the talent drops off and players land in the 1st round when they really have 2nd round talent or later. The biggest scrutiny New England deserves is the consistent failure to move up to try and capture some of the top line talent. I’m not entirely sure the scrutiny on missing on a player drafted on the boundary of the second round is all that disastrous as
    many (including Kraft) are maiking it out to be.

  43. “What I also know is that, while usually having the worst draft positions, Belichick’s methods have gotten incredible results. Not perfect. But I don’t hold his decisions to some impossible standard of a Platonic Ideal. I compare them to the rest of the league. And by that standard, he’s done incredibly well. According to Football Outsiders, from 2010-2029, the Pats have had the 24th lowest draft capital among the 32 teams. But in terms of draft efficiency – meaning the haul of actual talent they’ve gotten – they’ve rank seventh. With a Return vs. Capital rating of 112%. So he’s doing something right.

  44. bradygirl12 says:
    April 6, 2021 at 9:39 am
    QB and WR are the two positions that Belichick should leave up to the scouts. Put the stubborn GM thing aside for those 2 positions. That’s where he is his own worst enemy.

    0 1 Rate This

    —————

    Yes, he has done a terrible job with the qb position. lol!!
    You realize they drafted Pat Chung in 2009 after dealing Cassel after Cassel hadn’t played in 10 years and had a “pro bowl” year, better than Favre, right?

    JimmyG yielded a slew of picks as well.

    Just terrible! And that Brady guy that apparently was only groomed by his high school coach and Lloyd Carr. bWaha

  45. One of the things that drives Patriots fans up the wall is Belichick’s penchant for trading his first-round picks for something in later rounds. The Patriots consistently pick in the bottom of the second and subsequent rounds. I’m sitting here wondering if BB is going to trade #15 this year for a couple of third rounders. Probably not if Mac Jones is still available but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he did that again.

    How ironic, Since Bill Belichick was hired as the Patriots’ head coach in 2000, the Patriots have played their way to first or second in the AFC East every year except Belichick’s first season, with both second-place finishes caused by tiebreakers. Over that time, they have won six Super Bowls, nine AFC Championship Games, and sixteen AFC East titles, while amassing a regular season record of 237–82. So they have a “down” year in the absolute worst year in history for humanity and all of a sudden Belichick is cannon fodder.

  46. I remember a time when these same PFT trolls called Brady a system QB, and only looking good due to a HoF HC. Now that Brady won at TB (and 1 mediocre NE season) suddenly its 100% the other way around! Equally sad and amusing.

  47. William Lee says:
    April 6, 2021 at 9:35 am
    Belichick built 2 different dynasties in the cap era

    ———————————

    That is not that hard when a coach has a QB who doesn’t need top paid WR, doesn’t need top paid O-line, and still produce top 10 offense and plays better than Rodgers and Brees in playoff.

    Figure out the order of the result and the reason first.

    0 4 Rate This

    ———-

    So now he should be villified for drafting and developing All Pro level OLmen?

    Do you ever really listen to yourself?

    If you are a Pats fan, why would you want the team to overpay at so many positions?

    Please seek the help you need, Willy.

  48. footballpat says:
    April 6, 2021 at 7:35 am
    Malcolm Mitchell was hardly a bust. He was a very good player that had a career ending injury. That’s not predictable.

    ————

    His knees were a problem before he even entered the league. Two knee surgeries before he ever played an NFL game. He was picked in the 4th round though, so I wouldn’t lump him in as one of their bad picks.

    The 4th round is always full of players who don’t have good careers

  49. with 6 Super Bowls as a result, this is like complaining a supermodel has pointy elbows and not worthy of dating…

    ——————-

    Were Patriots supposed to have top 10 offense?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to save Belichick’s ass in SB?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to deliver 5 comebacks in 2003?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to be among top 5 in 2004?

    Were Patriots offense supposed to come back twice from 14 points deficit against Ravens?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to score 28 points against LOB?
    Were Patriots supposed to be in SB against Falcons without Gronk?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to play 37 minutes against Falcons?
    Were Patriots offense supposed to play 39 minutes and score 31 points against Chiefs in AFCCG?

  50. All this rush to defend Malcom Mitchell when Julian Edelman and Deion Branch are sitting on the sidelines smiling.

  51. So they have a “down” year in the absolute worst year in history for humanity and all of a sudden Belichick is cannon fodder.

    ———————–

    Belichick’s free agency splurge proved that the reason Belichick could build the team in a way that other coaches couldn’t was because he had Tom Brady. Without Tom Brady, he has to build the team just like how every other coach does. In other word, Belichick proved that the system that won Pats 6 SB was Brady’s system, not his.

  52. I guess 6 Superbowls in those 20 years just isn’t enough for some people. Go ask ANY other organization if they would like to have those 6 rings…Unreal…Oh Bill is so terrible Kraft should fire him immediately and hire Adam Gase he’s available. Boy it’s a good thing Tom was around to coach up those defenses that made all of those key stops to win those Superbowls. Boy without that stellar defensive play calling the Patriots are doomed, and with Tom in Tampa it’s all over. Good thing Tom kicked those winning field goals to win those games. Boy now that he’s in Tampa the Patriots kicking team is fried…SMH

  53. The Real David Szwartz says:
    April 6, 2021 at 8:49 am
    It’s so easy to see for the real football fan but not for bb’s koolaid drinkers,that NE wouldn’t have won One Superbowl without TB12,…NE will probably make a playoff push while bb is still there But we all know he’ll Never make or Absolutely Not win one Without the Man who Carried the franchise not with just his play but with his cap friendly salary when bb made sure that he was a Top paid coach..I believe bb will keep the team respectable but he’s not the GOAT Of that franchise TB12 was in All aspects.

    Thumbs down for all the random, unnecessary capitalization.

  54. timetolisten

    How about an opportunity to play for one of the best coaches of all time?

  55. Further evidence that they lucked into drafting TB12, and he was the sole reason for their success. Took less money, on top of that to compensate for poor management.

  56. As one can see Everything points back to TB12..he covered up a lot of the Mistakes ,Deficiencies and cheapness of the organization,also the reason why they picked highly in the draft..if it wasn’t for TB12 bb still wouldn’t be in ne, bb was Lucky to be able to make a great career off of TB12.. as of last year and moving forward that will be more and more evident to the bb apostles..bb and his ego will retire within 4 seasons with a sub 500 record without TB12,then no more touchback!!!

  57. I laugh at all of the people posting how Brady made Belichick. Brady finished the season with the Patriots at 5-4 and looked terrible in doing it. Now all of a sudden he goes to an all star team and wins with defense and he is the goat again. Get out of here with that nonsense.

  58. BB the coach is likely the best ever, but anyone who thinks that anybody but BB the GM has had final say on FA or draft day is searching for a reason to keep praising BB. For years, BB and RK have been the only people in the NE draft room. It has been clear for quite some time that BB the GM underperforms in the draft versus the rest of the league. Year after year TB12 would come early, stay late, organize off sites, etc., with cadres of new “players”. It took TB12 leaving in order for BB the GM to be exposed, and it couldn’t be corrected via a draft or two, so FA filled the holes quicker. The rest is just putting shine on how the NE roster arrived at this point. Going forward it looks like it’s going to be interesting though.

  59. BB the coach is likely the best ever,

    ——————

    Brady turned him into a genius.

    Without Brady’s skill of turning cheap short slot receivers into top play makers (SINCE 2001!!!), Belichick would be a garbage.

  60. So now he should be villified for drafting and developing All Pro level OLmen?

    ——————–
    TD6,

    Belichick’s free agency splurge proved that the reason Belichick could build the team in a way that other coaches couldn’t was because he had Tom Brady. Without Tom Brady, he has to build the team just like how every other coach does. In other word, Belichick proved that the system that won Pats 6 SB was Brady’s system, not his.

    That, is LOGIC.

  61. Brady took pay cuts to clear cap, attracted FA’s to take pay cuts to play with him, and knew how to win close games.

    BB is on his own now. He’s a middlin’ GM at best. With the other teams in the AFCE finally improving as they are, it’s going to be a tough road ahead for the Patriots.

  62. Absurd opinions that don’t even require response:

    1. Belichick is a terrible GM.

    2. Buffett can’t pick stocks any more.

    3. Biden is senile.

    People always find a reason to knock winners.

  63. I sit back & laugh at all the CHICKEN LITTLE nay sayers out there…. the draft, after the 1st 15-20 in round one & even THEY are sometimes very questionable, is a crap shoot for the most part & the Pats, for YEARS, have been drafting at the end of each round or trading back to draft earlier in the next round…not only that, jealous owners with the aide of a corrupt commissioner & staff have STOLEN numerous high round draft picks because OTHER TEAMS have drafted so poorly they needed a way to even the playing field…. ALSO, the Pats have REPEATEDLY had their coaching staff & premier FA’ s pillaged year after year…..One bad year during a pandemic & no normality to basic offseason training coupled with a QB that admittedly BOTH stinks & was brought in super late to learn the system & the results were as expected…..
    Oh, let’s throw in cap he’ll last year to boot along with the most opt outs in the league to many key positions while we are at it…..
    7-9 was pretty good considering all that…..
    Bill got us to 9 Super Bowls winning 6 & multiple AFC title games….. HE’s the GOLD STANDARD in today’s NFL & is in the process or reconstructing another solid base that still needs its leader….it’s process & it doesn’t happen over night or with a handful of magic beans…..all this DRAMA is media driven & nothing new to us true Pats fans….. The Pats are STILL obsessed over & I love it!!!!
    Go Pats!!!!

  64. “So they have a “down” year in the absolute worst year in history for humanity and all of a sudden Belichick is cannon fodder.”
    ___________

    More than the down year what is scaring people is the seeming lack of a plan. I kind of figured they’d let Brady walk at some point but I was stunned they did it without any plan in place to replace him. The Cam signing came late, all 3 of their QBs played terribly last season, then Cam was re-signed meaning 2 of the 3 stinky QBs from last year will be back this year. And if they do draft a QB is the duo of Cam and Stidham your ideal to groom a rookie? Plus their skill positions last season were so bad it prompted them to go on a very uncharacteristic spending spree this offseason. This is a team that went 20 years without any knee-jerk reactions but right now it feels like every move is being made totally on the fly.

  65. But….but…..BB is the best coach ever and the greatest GM ever. That’s baloney. They got lucky with TB and because he was there they were able to get a lot of players to come play with Brady. It wasn’t BB at all. TB was the reason that team was so successful. The past several years the talent on the Patriots was very poor and that falls on BB the GM. Then you have this story of him picking someone because he’s buddy buddy with the coach. Yeah, how can that ever go wrong. The trades and draft picks in recent years have been terrible.

  66. Absurd opinions that don’t even require response:

    1. Belichick is a terrible GM.
    ….

    ——————————————
    tigerlilac

    You must be one of those who had called Brady a system QB for long long time.

    Belichick is screwed now because Belichick’s believers had insisted that it was his magic system that could win SB with any QB. If Belichick’s believers had given Brady even 50% of credits then, there would be no debate now. How do you feel about it now?

    BTW, Belichick’s free agency splurge proved that the system behind Pats dynasty was Brady’s system, not Belichick’s. It is not an opinion, it is LOGIC.

  67. No one, not one person, anywhere, ever called him a genius before Brady. Without him, BB’s record as a head coach is fair to middling at best. That’s not an opinion, that’s the reality. I know that kills NE fans but it’s true. He wins the SB with Cam Newton? Then even I’ll call him a genius.

  68. The past several years the talent on the Patriots was very poor and that falls on BB the GM.

    —————————————-

    Idiots take what Brady did for granted.

    Came back twice from 14 points against Ravens? easy.
    Scored 28 points against LOB? easy. (They don’t even know that if Brady had scored 24 points, there would be no throw, hence no INT)
    Making to SB without Gronk? easy.
    Played 39 minutes and outscored Chiefs in AFCCG? easy.

  69. mogogo1 says:
    April 6, 2021 at 10:36 am
    “So they have a “down” year in the absolute worst year in history for humanity and all of a sudden Belichick is cannon fodder.”
    ___________

    More than the down year what is scaring people is the seeming lack of a plan. I kind of figured they’d let Brady walk at some point but I was stunned they did it without any plan in place to replace him. The Cam signing came late, all 3 of their QBs played terribly last season, then Cam was re-signed meaning 2 of the 3 stinky QBs from last year will be back this year. And if they do draft a QB is the duo of Cam and Stidham your ideal to groom a rookie? Plus their skill positions last season were so bad it prompted them to go on a very uncharacteristic spending spree this offseason. This is a team that went 20 years without any knee-jerk reactions but right now it feels like every move is being made totally on the fly.

    0 1 Rate This

    ————-

    BB had JimmyG ready to go. Kraft intervened.

    Stidham was Brady’s lone back up in 2019.

    The pandemic

    How childish and with child-like thinking do you have to be to ignore it during a rebuild and if Stidham wasn’t the guy in 2021, how arriving on 7.26 for camp somehow didn’t have an effect?

    If BB wasn’t happy with Stidham in 2019, he wouldn’t have been the lone back up. Get it?

    He had a plan. He had to deviate from the plans.

  70. I wish PFT had a post history. It would dismiss a lot of revisionist history. I never bashed Brady. Certainly never called him a “system QB”. I have continually praised him. When it looked like Washington would be their matchup in the first round I said I could see Brady and the Bucs running the table to the super bowl. I didn’t see them beating the Chiefs but I didn’t dismiss it being a real possibility. I was mocked on that thread.

    I have explained my views in the Brady Belichick relationship enough and see no need to repeat it again. They are the greatest coach and player in NFL history. Those that want to diminish their achievements are a pathetic lot.

  71. Not like Harry has been the only questionable 1st/2nd round pick recently.

    Go back the past 5 years. Joejuann Williams has become a complete no-name. Isaiah Wynn has not been able to stay healthy. Michel has looked good at times, not good at others. Duke Dawson lasted a year, traded away for peanuts. Cyrus Jones is on his 5th team. Joe Thuney is on the Chiefs. When Sony Michel is the best ROI you’ve picked up in the top 2 rounds over the past five years, fair to say that you’ve sucked at drafting in the first couple rounds recently.

  72. Naterade says:
    April 6, 2021 at 10:06 am
    I laugh at all of the people posting how Brady made Belichick. Brady finished the season with the Patriots at 5-4 and looked terrible in doing it. Now all of a sudden he goes to an all star team and wins with defense and he is the goat again. Get out of here with that nonsense.

    ————

    Let’s not get it twisted. Belichick coached one of the worst rosters in the league to 7-9 last year. Nobody is questioning his coaching ability, last year proved that.

    I think the point is Tom Brady covered up for the lack of playmakers on the offensive side of the ball by getting his protections right and getting the ball out at lightning speed by what he saw at the line of scrimmage.

    When you change to a QB that doesn’t do that as well it is going to have an impact and it showed on the field. It exposed the lack of playmakers and depth on the offensive side of the ball. You don’t draft well, you have to pay free agents. It is what it is.

    You can point to Green Bay as a similar situation. I am sure they are 6-10 with Aaron Rodgers last year given the players on their offense.

  73. Nobody is questioning his coaching ability, last year proved that.

    ——————————————

    Except Belichick never accomplished anything unless OTHERS gave him top offense or stayed on field for long long time.

    Pats couldn’t rely on his defense to make playoff (unless very easy schedules) or to win back to back playoff games.

    and he was not involved in developing players on offense side, which became clear that he never gave Cam any guidance on sideline, and he never talked to WR on sideline.

  74. karmakalled says:
    April 6, 2021 at 9:30 am
    short, stocky bald man says:
    April 6, 2021 at 6:46 am
    Tom Brady was the only reason they won
    =============
    Randy Moss says “Hi”

    —————-

    Why? Does he want to borrow one of Brady’s 7 rings to wear?

  75. “If BB wasn’t happy with Stidham in 2019, he wouldn’t have been the lone back up. Get it?”
    ___________

    So, what explains Stidham not getting a single start in 2020? Pretty clear BB’s thinking on the kid changed because that was the ideal time to get him some experience. Nobody cares that he looked good in a preseason a couple years ago. He’s still never looked good in a real game and if they draft a QB it’s a safe bet Stidham never will start a game for the Pats. Nor should that really have ever been an expectation for a 4th round draft pick.

  76. Sure. That’s how it went. There are always these stories after the fact. Harry was highly rated in that draft. He just hasn’t worked in the NFL, and the Patriot system has a lot to do with it. Reggie Wayne and Chad Johnson couldn’t get it after playing well elsewhere.

  77. It has been a glaring fact that the drafting of especially offensive talent is not Bill’s expertise. He absolutely sucks at it . This year he will suck at it also this year he should draft Elijah Moore slot and tammarion terry wr . But im sure it will be a lacrosse player or wrestling captain.

  78. William Lee says:

    Belichick’s free agency splurge proved that the reason Belichick could build the team in a way that other coaches couldn’t was because he had Tom Brady. Without Tom Brady, he has to build the team just like how every other coach does. In other word, Belichick proved that the system that won Pats 6 SB was Brady’s system, not his.
    ———————–
    You mean like what Tampa Bay did in 2020 when they had $90 million in cap space. So was that Tom Brady’s system as well?

  79. trollaikman8 says:
    April 6, 2021 at 9:59 am
    Further evidence that they lucked into drafting TB12, and he was the sole reason for their success. Took less money, on top of that to compensate for poor management.

    Of course they lucked out. Name another team to draft arguably the best QB in a generation in the 6th round? The sole reason? You understand the Bucs won exactly 4 more regular season games than the Pats last year, correct? I’m all for giving Brady the credit he desreves but maybe a little bit of reality may need to be introduced here. Brady took less money to ensure he had talent around him to make his team competitive. Just like he is doing in TB. Evidence by the fact he continues to make top 10-20 level compensation for a QB. Just like he did with NE for 20 years.

  80. Brady took less money to ensure he had talent around him to make his team competitive.

    ———————————

    Brady achieved far far far far far more than you can reasonably expect from a QB with the squad Belichick gave to him, especially before 2007.

  81. You mean like what Tampa Bay did in 2020 when they had $90 million in cap space. So was that Tom Brady’s system as well?

    ————————————-

    Brady’s skills made it possible for Belichick to build a team in a way no other coaches could. Therefore it is Brady’s system, not Belichick’s.

    Brady used the same skills in Bucs since December, especially when he was under pressure.

  82. This is all very simple. BB benefited from having the best QB in the history of the NFL. He benefited in the salary-cap era because his QB didn’t take a salary commensurate with his skills and winning.

    It’s a fact that in the 2 years that Brady was gone (2008 due to injury, 2020 off winning a Super Bowl for someone else), BB couldn’t get his team to the playoffs. It’s also a fact that in the only year (2002) that a healthy Brady/Belichick combination missed the playoffs, Brady had his lowest rate (85.7) of his career and tied his high in INT’s.

    All BB needs to do is show that he can win consistently and make deep playoff runs without Tom Brady. If Belichick truly is the greatest ever, and is so far head and shoulders above the rest and a genius, as well as a QB whisperer as some think (even though his prowess is defense), this shouldn’t be very difficult task.

  83. so do your job is not a matra they live by? goat coach, but gm’s should trust their people

  84. IDK where this notion that the pats have never been players in free agency comes from. Mike Vrabel, Corey Dillon, Rodney Harrison, Steph Gilmore, Adalious Thomas to name a few significant players from contending teams. Thomas is the worst of the bunch and he wasn’t bad, just poor value. They’ve done a good job getting up and coming players to sign deals that look like a steal in hindsight (which is how many of this year’s deals will look next year). There is no Albert Haynesworth sized deal in this batch of FAs. No one in that organization has a clue how to pick WRs though.

  85. IDK where this notion that the pats have never been players in free agency comes from

    —————————-

    Robert Kraft admits Patriots used to laugh at teams that spent big in free agency

    Which means that now Belichick is building a team in a way that he used to believe stupid. I don’t think I have to say more except waiting for down-votes from Belichick’s believers.

  86. William Lee says:

    Brady achieved far far far far far more than you can reasonably expect from a QB with the squad Belichick gave to him, especially before 2007.

    And as most PManning fans will advocate Brady also had far better defenses than most of his peers. Are we to assume Brady assembled the defensive players\schemes as part of his all encompassing “system”?

  87. William Lee says:

    Brady’s skills made it possible for Belichick to build a team in a way no other coaches could. Therefore it is Brady’s system, not Belichick’s.

    Brady used the same skills in Bucs since December, especially when he was under pressure.
    ————————————-
    ?!?!?!? So again, using the same logic we can safely assume that Arians also built a team in a way no other coaches could. If Brady allowed Belichick to do that why would we think Arians didn’t yield the same benefit? I mean if we aren’t giving Belichick any of the credit for using Brady the appropriate way I fail to see why anybody should do the same for Arians\Leftwich.

  88. mmmpierogi says: April 6, 2021 at 12:11 pm Not like Harry has been the only questionable 1st/2nd round pick recently. Go back the past 5 years. Joejuann Williams has become a complete no-name. Isaiah Wynn has not been able to stay healthy. Michel has looked good at times, not good at others. Duke Dawson lasted a year, traded away for peanuts. Cyrus Jones is on his 5th team. Joe Thuney is on the Chiefs. When Sony Michel is the best ROI you’ve picked up in the top 2 rounds over the past five years, fair to say that you’ve sucked at drafting in the first couple rounds recently.
    ————————————-
    Stuff like this cracks me up. A 3rd round draft pick just signed a 5 year $80 million contract and that is a draft bust?!?!?!?! Using this (absurd) logic I guess Reggie White was a bust as well.

  89. karmakalled,

    Let me show you the right way of thinking:

    It is not hard to build top defense if a coach spends as much as Belichick did. (a PAPER TIGER defense that couldn’t be replied on in playoff)

    It is not hard to build top offense with a really good QB if a coach invests a lot on offense, like Sean Payton did.

    What is hard is to have BOTH top defense and top offense, and Pats offense was ranked better than defense was though Belichick invested most on defense, WHY?

  90. we can safely assume that Arians also built a team in a way no other coaches could.

    ————————————

    The way Belichick built the team needed a QB who had the skills to turn cheap receivers into play makers.

    I don’t see how Arian’s way depends on his QB.

  91. William Lee.

    Let’s start with the fact that since 2000 Brady has benefited from having a top 10 defense exactly 15 times. The other 4 years it was top 20. Conversely, the offense was ranked in the top 10 13 of those 19 years. The other 6 were top 20-25.

    We have 20 years of data to suggest that BOITH the offense and defense were ranked in the top 10 for almost 3 quarters of Bradys run with the Patriots. With the defense performing better in every non-top 10 year. So again, it’s patently NOT obvious that it was in fact Brady’s system.

  92. The way Belichick built the team needed a QB who had the skills to turn cheap receivers into play makers.

    I don’t see how Arian’s way depends on his QB.
    ——-

    Then clearly Brady doesn’t deserve a lot of the credit with TB since his WRs were the play makers and not him.

  93. Now its soley belichicks fault guys dont develop? Harry is a physical specimen and has great traits maybe he pans out maybe hes another chad Jackson someone with a world of talent that never lives up too it. Belichick is the best coach/gm in history people just want to give Brady all the credit cause hes gone if he was still there all you same people would say hes a system qb and they won from cheating blah blah blah .

  94. Naterade says:
    April 6, 2021 at 10:06 am
    I laugh at all of the people posting how Brady made Belichick. Brady finished the season with the Patriots at 5-4 and looked terrible in doing it. Now all of a sudden he goes to an all star team and wins with defense and he is the goat again. Get out of here with that nonsense.
    ———————————–
    An all star team? The Bucs had 1 player make the pro bowl. Brady’s leadership brought the best out of the Bucs. This same Bucs team wouldn’t have even made the playoffs if Jameis Winston was still their QB. Belichick and New England will have another losing season again this year while Tom Brady and the Bucs will most likely win the division and compete for the #1 seed in the NFC.

  95. Let’s start with the fact that since 2000 Brady has benefited from having a top 10 defense exactly 15 times.

    —————————–

    Brady’s “easy” throws made it very easy for Belichick to build defense that couldn’t carry the team to playoff, nor could it win back to back playoff games.

    Tell your favorite QB to to do the same.

  96. Stidham was Brady’s lone back up in 2019.
    ———————

    Why do you keep repeating this lie. Cody Kessler was on the roster in 2019. He signed for a couple weeks the was released for a couple weeks. He was picked up on 09.25.19 which so happened to be immediately after that game Stidham threw an interception against the Jets. Then Kessler was signed again at the end of October a week after Stidham took his last snap. Maybe BB thought Stidham was not that great back then. The Pats releases Kessler 04.01.20. So tell me again how Stidham was the lone backup?

  97. Then clearly Brady doesn’t deserve a lot of the credit with TB since his WRs were the play makers and not him.

    ————————

    I never said he deserved lot of credits for his stats in Bucs, neither did Peyton, nor did Rodgers (his tall WR allowed him to throw a lot near goal lines)

    What Brady brought to Bucs was versatility, the difference between a SB contender and a SB champion.

  98. Angel Valle says:
    April 6, 2021 at 7:08 pm

    …Belichick is the best coach/gm in history….
    ===============================================================================
    And if that’s the case, and he’s the one who found and developed Brady (as some here say) and is a “master” and a “genius” and “head-and-shoulders above the rest”, then he should have no problem finding a new QB to run the system and win consistently without Tom Brady.

    But so far (and it’s a small sample), all I see is a 43 year-old QB who went to another team and won another Super Bowl, leaving his old coach behind who went 7-9.

  99. You can not include Malcolm Mitchell in that list. He was awesome in his brief career and no one can predict career ending injuries. This guy was a champion and a major contributor to a world championship.

  100. William Lee says:

    I never said he deserved lot of credits for his stats in Bucs, neither did Peyton, nor did Rodgers (his tall WR allowed him to throw a lot near goal lines)

    What Brady brought to Bucs was versatility, the difference between a SB contender and a SB champion.

    ————————

    So what your suggesting is somehow that versatility that Brady brought to both teams only allowed one of them to win SBs without top end talent?

  101. William Lee says: Brady’s “easy” throws made it very easy for Belichick to build defense that couldn’t carry the team to playoff, nor could it win back to back playoff games. Tell your favorite QB to to do the same.

    ————–

    Ok so basically the Ravens won with Trent Dilfer’s system?

  102. Day of reckoning is coming for Belichick. Another year or two of mediocrity will expose him as the guy who rode Brady’s coattail.

  103. bobhk says:
    April 7, 2021 at 5:05 pm
    Day of reckoning is coming for Belichick. Another year or two of mediocrity will expose him as the guy who rode Brady’s coattail.

    And if he brings the team to the playoffs you can be sure it will still not be good enough for some people.

  104. As always BB and the Patriots will ignore the noise and keep grinding until they win another title. Notice that defense BB is building. It is going to be dominant. But no one in New England talks they walk the walk. Be afraid. be VERY AFRAID you fools.

  105. They can’t all be good picks. That is why you stockpile them. Plus, you don’t build from the draft alone. BB has been very successful with undrafted guys as well. Outside of Mitchell, who was derailed by injuries, the rest didn’t live up to their billing. It happens.

  106. meh. Deion Branch could play. David Givens could play. Julian Edelman can play. Mitchell’s heroics in SB were worth a fourth round pick. If they draft Jakobi Meyers – who broke Torry Holt’s college records fwiw – in the first and Harry goes undrafted and signs afterwards nobody cares all that much. Also football outsiders was quite high on Harry, who may still become a decent player if enough residual speed makes it onto the field to let his height become an advantage. Was it a reach? Yes, because Harry had a third round grade. But it was probably less of a reach than Tavon Wilson or Duron Harmon or that poor slow bastard from Stanford. Tavon Wilson got more than one contract. Harmon was fine. But when you find Malcom Butler and JC Jackson just lying around, you can afford to mess up some second rounders. Honestly Gronkowski makes everyone forget about Arthur Love and Jabari Hallowell and Devin Asiasi and Dalton Keene. BB just actually hasn’t drafted that many WRs but I still think taking Maroney over DeAngelo Williams or Jermaine Cunningham over Carlos Dunlop were the worse mistakes. Far more egregious in my mind was refusing to pay the good receivers when they had them and making Brady start again from scratch all the time… pretty sure that cost them at least one championship

  107. William Lee says:
    April 6, 2021 at 9:31 am
    He’s one of the best head coaches in the league

    —————————————-

    Rex Ryan made to AFCCG twice.

    Belichick is on a mission now to catch up with Rex Ryan.
    ——
    Rex Ryan is on record saying that Peyton Manning is a better quarterback than Tom Brady. LOL.

    Tampa Bay Tommy lovers are really getting desperate using Rex Ryan as some kind of benchmark for coaching. 😀

    I wasn’t all that impressed with Brady winning another SB. His defense won it for him, just like when his defense won him a few here.

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