The current hiring cycle is making the Brian Flores case stronger

New England Patriots v Miami Dolphins
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With the one-year anniversary of the filing of the landmark Brian Flores race discrimination litigation against the NFL looming, the current hiring cycle is only making the case stronger.

We still don’t know where the case will unfold. Will it happen in open court, where justice is dispensed equally — a prospect that those who face equal justice desperately fear? Or will it be diverted to the NFL’s secret, rigged kangaroo court, where the deck is stacked in favor of those who utilize boilerplate terms in contracts of adhesion to continuously delay a much-needed reckoning?

If the case ends up being resolved by the man who is hired and paid by the NFL’s 32 teams to run the league, recent developments won’t matter. If the case ends up being resolved in court, recent developments have indeed made it stronger.

Apart from the NFL’s problematic history of shying away from minority head coaches, a reality that the league office surprisingly has conceded, the possible shunning of those who have dared to stand tall against Big Shield opens the door for claims that the league’s teams are retaliating against those who have sued. The fact that the league’s collective response to being held accountable surprises no one says much about the way the NFL conducts business, frankly.

Fans and media generally accept the intimidation, the retribution, the bullying — in all of its various forms. Brian Flores, Steve Wilks, and Ray Horton have decided not to accept it. They have decided to invite even more bad treatment by standing up against the bad treatment they and others have received.

And here’s how the case is getting stronger. There were five head-coaching vacancies. Wilks won six of 12 games as the interim coach of the Panthers, and he didn’t get the job. Flores has gotten one interview for a head-coaching vacancy.

Meanwhile, Colts owner Jim Irsay still seems to be hellbent on making Jeff Saturday the next head coach, despite going 1-7 in eight games as the interim coach. Irsay’s team interviewed neither Flores nor Wilks for the current vacancy.

With the Dolphins (for firing Flores), the Giants (for allegedly giving him a sham interview), the Broncos (same), the Texans (for not hiring Flores last year in retaliation for the filing of his lawsuit), the Cardinals (for firing Wilks), and the Titans (for giving Horton a sham interview) already named as defendants along with the NFL, the Panthers, Cardinals, Colts, Texans, and Broncos could be facing retaliation claims, if neither Wilks nor Flores become head coaches in the current cycle.

It all comes down to the Cardinals at this point. Nearly three weeks into the process, a sudden scramble to interview Flores and/or Wilks for the Colts, Texans, and/or Broncos jobs would likely be worse than doing nothing.

In Carolina, the die has been cast. In Arizona there’s one last chance to take some of the steam out of the litigation, by truly setting aside the fact that Flores has decided to stand up for himself — and to force the NFL to potentially do something more meaningful than say, “We’re trying to get better.” A major verdict aimed at rectifying decades of hiring bias is the only thing that has any chance of forcing change.

And it will take that major verdict. As we’ve seen Flores and Wilks getting short shrift in the current cycle, a pending lawsuit isn’t enough to get the attention of the members of Club Oligarch.

118 responses to “The current hiring cycle is making the Brian Flores case stronger

  1. Maybe the lack of interest in Flores and Wilks at this point has more to do with their disruptive (in the eyes of the NFL) litigious activities than their colour.

  2. There is the possibility that guys like Flores are just better assistant coaches than most regardless of race and because of that teams want a person like him in those positions and not necessarily as a had coach. Mike Zimmer was a defensive coach/coordinator for 20 years before he became a head coach because he was a very good defensive coach. Could this be the case with Flores and others.

  3. Flores couldn’t get the Dolphins to the playoffs. He said out loud his job wasn’t to lose to get the first pick but to win. Well he didn’t. He was the same average coach that the dolphins fire every 3 or four years. Miami fired them to and they were white. Worse,Flores divided the team and working with Grier ended up wasting a lot of high draft picks.

  4. The “sham interviews” are mandated by the league. If I was an owner, I would hire who I thought was the best person to help us win. The league shouldn’t force anyone on a team.

  5. Let’s be honest here. The NFL is about winning. If anyone thought that these coaches would win more games then others, then skin color wouldn’t matter. Brian Flores did just OK in Miami, Steve Wilkes, yeah he almost got the Panthers to the playoffs, at a sub .500 record. Com’on.

  6. Why would Tepper have appointed Wilks the Interim Head Coach if he was not realistically being given a chance? He surely knew that Wilks was part of the litigation and thus there would be blow back if the Interim Tag was not removed. That is the part that I think really shoots a hole in the argument.

  7. Bottom line is if I’m a billionaire! I have every right to hire the person of my choosing! There’s no law on Earth that says I need to hire someone based on their ethnicity!

  8. 1. Jeff Saturday went 1-7 in his trial run. 2. Maybe we should see how the rest of the coach hiring cycle goes before we jump to conclusions? 3. It would be humorous to see Brian Flores deal with Kyler Murray and his temper tantrums.

  9. Let me start by saying that I believe there is a problem with the lack of minority hires in the head coaching ranks. I am, however, troubled by the idea that every time a black coach is passed over, it’s because of this problem.

    The current narrative that Wilks did an “incredible job” coaching the Panthers is deeply flawed. He went .500 in the absolute worst division in football. He had a terrible record in Arizona. He doesn’t specialize on the side of the ball that Carolina needs the most help at, and he certainly doesn’t have a track record of developing QBs, which Carolina desperately needs.

    As for the Colts and Saturday, I think it’s a little disingenuous to talk all the time about what a loon and an outlier Jim Irsay is and then describe his actions during this coaching search to be emblematic of the beliefs of the entire league.

    Yes, there is a problem. But ascribing every single instance where someone doesn’t get a job to this problem marginalizes it rather than emphasizes it. You’re just giving fuel to the people who say the problem isn’t real.

  10. I’m kinda hoping Arizona doesn’t hire him cause the Vikings need him. Hopefully the Vikings feel like do.

  11. Mike, thank you for the reporting on this. I have a question. How does one actually prove in a court of law that a candidate was not hired due to race. For instance, if an African American coach is interviewed along with white coaches, and if one of the white coaches gets the job, how do you actually prove that the reason the African American coach was not chosen was racism?

    The problem I’m having is that hiring a coach is not some cut and dried affair, like: “everyone takes a test…the highest score gets the job.” There can be all sorts of reasons for someone getting the job. For instance, maybe Frank Reich was hired over Wilks in Carolina because they wanted a QB whisperer at the HC position to develop a guy they plan to draft. How can you tell a team that is an illegitimate reason to hire a coach?

    I’m not saying racism doesn’t occur. I know it does. But, my question is, from a legal standpoint, how do you proove it in this instance. If you could reply here or in another post that would be extremely helpful. Thanks

  12. It’s almost impossible to prove racial discrimination unless an owner admits it (will never happen), or unless people high in teams go on record and testify (also likely w9on’t happen). I don’t see Flores winning this case….right or wrong.

  13. Why would you hire or even interview someone you know is likely to sue you at some point?

  14. A HC record of 24-25 or 6-6 doesn’t exactly scream a must-have coach. Maybe, the lack of minority coaching interviews is due to a lack of minority coaches with resumes that warrant an interview? I can only think of a couple off the top of my head (Ryans or Bieniemy) that would warrant a HC position, and they’re both still in the playoffs.

  15. What if teams just like one coach more than another? Why does race have to be a factor? It seems more racist to artificially encourage the hiring of minorities in the pursuit of “fairness” than to hire someone purely on merit.

  16. “Maybe the lack of interest in Flores and Wilks at this point has more to do with their disruptive (in the eyes of the NFL) litigious activities than their colour.”

    Except that is retaliation for claiming racial discrimination, which regardless of if it is a winning claim of racial discrimination, is something an employer cannot do. It would be terrible for the NFL’s litigation for that to be true/provable.

  17. If you think Reich was a better hire than most of the Black HC candidates, you really aren’t paying attention. The courts have already determined the case has merit. This cycle is proof that they’re right.

  18. It’s going to end with them being very rich men. NFL owners will do what they know best, pay to make it go away. Meanwhile, the asinine defenders of the status quo will continue to say there’s no problem here. I hope they get as much as possible because these buffoons who own these teams won’t change.

  19. Owners & GMs want offensive play callers as head coaches. Very few of those are black. If they want more black coaches develop more black assistant offensive coaches and QB coaches

  20. No it’s not. Ryans is gonna get a job. Eviro been interviewed for every opening. Maybe Flores wasn’t that good. The worst thing for him was Tua looking good this year after he was a total bozo in managing him.

  21. You essentially want to force people to not have the ability to hire whoever they want to hire. It’s such a psychotic stance to take on its face but it’s even more psychotic when the people you want to force your will on and tell them who they can and can’t hire paid billions of dollars to purchase a sports team.

  22. While it is illegal to discriminate based upon race / sex / religion, I don’t remember the constitution outlawing discrimination based upon suing the league. I am a sales rep and I see companies perfectly capable of being a supplier discriminated against simply becasue they don’t like particular people or have a preference to utilize another company. You cannot have it both ways.

  23. Wilk (a defensive guy) had a 21 – 10 lead in the 4th quarter in a must win game and blew the game…There is no shame in having a long career as a great coordinator Monte Kiffin and Dick LeBeau did pretty well for themselves…LeBeau’s biggest coaching stumble was when he made the interim coach of the Bengals then got the job and the D fell apart.

  24. Firing someone based on their skin color is wrong. Hiring someone based on their skin color is equally wrong. Any skin color.

  25. The fact that Jeff Saturday is even being considered right now is a pretty bad look for the league as a whole

  26. There’s no guarantee any hire will work. Jimmy Johnson couldn’t recreate his magic in Miami after 2 SB’s with Cowboys. What happens if AZ hires minority (and can we drop that term please) candidate and is fired after 1 or 2 seasons?
    This whole system of diversity and inclusion, quota interviews and other woke nonsense, is hurting all candidates long-term. Look at what Coach Prime has done. He has the ability to connect and get the most out of players and he’s being rewarded for it.
    Why should the system (it’s really others who think they know better) force a candidate of any ethnicity on a team? The owners should feel the heat and pressure for not hiring qualified candidate in an organic way (from fans, local media, etc) rather than some dork from NFL HQ.
    I’m sorry Flores endured (if true) what he did from Stephen Ross. Unfortunately it happens to all colors and stripes of people in every industry and profession and will because the human heart is deceitful and selfish.
    A feel-good rule or two won’t change anything because, again, people will find a way around whatever law and find a way to justify it.

  27. kingbags says:
    January 27, 2023 at 10:54 am
    Owners & GMs want offensive play callers as head coaches. Very few of those are black. If they want more black coaches develop more black assistant offensive coaches and QB coaches

    ==========================================
    ==========================================
    Hence the reason the Rooney Rule was extended to coordinator positions. There are plenty of minority offensive assistants they just hit the glass ceiling when it comes to moving up to even those positions.

  28. Well stated. The racism is clear, historical, defiant, the rule not the exception and Jay-Z can’t rescue them from this reality. Nuff said.

  29. AS I have mentionned before – and is shows with the hiring of the daughter of a coach . the problem is too many assistants and interns are relatives and that occupies salaries and a slot of each team that might be better served by employing explayers and we know what the percentage of those explayers are minority versus majority.

  30. I guess based on coach Wilkes foray into this lawsuit (being fired after one TERRIBLE season in AZ) that Nathaniel Hackett should join the suit as well? He didn’t even get a chance to finish the season and won 4 times as many games as coach Wilkes. He seems like a very good man, as is NH. However, so are Lovie Smith, Mike Singletary, Art Shell, Vance Joseph, Herm Edwards…they just could not win enough. Shell is the only one listed with an above .500 nfl coaching record. Racism sucks and has no place in society. I just don’t think it applies here.

  31. If I owned a business, I’d be fearful of hiring a guy who when things don’t go his way, he files a multi-million dollar lawsuit(s).

  32. I get Flores’ and Wilks’ rubs. Ray Horton? He was never HC material. And if he was, then please explain it to me.

  33. At some point the NFL needs to stand up to these owners not for avoiding minorities but due to the complete mismanagement no matter who they hire., Frank Reich was in the same boat if not worse than Wilkes since he got fired even though he only had one winning season and was replaced by his bosses drinking buddy who couldn’t even get 25% of the production Reich got out of the same team.

    Drop the racism out of the narrative and you’ll realize some of these GM’s and owners are not fit to have the power they have. Fix that and the diversity part will fix itself.

  34. Rich Bissacia was 7-5 with the Raiders, which by your logic means he should have become the new HC the following season. As far as “sham” interviews go, what do you expect when you require an organization to interview a candidate based solely on skin color? The Rooney rule was always bad policy.

  35. The only case being made is to avoid Flores at all costs. It appears if you don’t make him head coach for life you will be facing a lawsuit sometime in the future.

  36. Flores wins as soon as it gets to court and discovery is allowed. Do you think the NFL want to expose text messages and emails from 32 coaches and 32 owners. They’ll put a big fat settlement on the table before that. Those emails and messages will lead to a lot bigger lawsuits than this one.

  37. first these people listen to the advise they want to hear. Someone who doesnt have a horse in the race should have sat them down and explained the “real facts of life”. Employers dont hire people they suspect may be trouble makers and hard to fire down the road. Owners and GM’s want yes men to some extent but fear not being able to evict someone down the road without a mess in the newspapers.
    These guys probably are decent coaches but they set fire to the resumes they built with bad advice.

  38. The current hiring cycle? That is, the one single hire made so far?

    For context, when is the last time an interim head coach was given the job? It almost never happens. Let alone when the coach had a .500 record and didn’t make the playoffs.

    Black coaches have been getting interviews across the board over the last few weeks. There are more in serious contention than ever before. Several of them are former head coaches themselves. The draft-pick incentive program is already increasing hiring and upward movement in assistant coaching positions.

    And this doesn’t look like progress?

  39. It’s not that NFL owners are racist in their hiring, it’s that over a 50 year period, they tend to not hire minorities.
    That is not up for debate.
    Most people don’t care, but minorities do.
    Since historically minorities have less money and power, these situations show how long real change takes.
    Around 150 years.

  40. I am not going to dispute the underlying issue and never thought I would find myself defending Jim Irsay. But since this article indirectly paints him as racist for his head coach hiring practices, I will note that he has a history of hiring african american head coaches and these facts matter. His infatuation with Saturday is weird and probably unhealthy, but likely not born out of racism or an effort to black-ball. The problem for Irsay with interviewing Wilks or Flores is not the color of their skin, but that they will easily win the day in an interview process, and this does not work towards his goal of hiring Saturday. The guys owns the team and does have the right to choose an unorthodox approach to selecting a coach that does not weight the traditional merits.

  41. Tulsa Bronco says:
    January 27, 2023 at 11:15 am
    I guess based on coach Wilkes foray into this lawsuit (being fired after one TERRIBLE season in AZ) that Nathaniel Hackett should join the suit as well? He didn’t even get a chance to finish the season and won 4 times as many games as coach Wilkes. He seems like a very good man, as is NH. However, so are Lovie Smith, Mike Singletary, Art Shell, Vance Joseph, Herm Edwards…they just could not win enough. Shell is the only one listed with an above .500 nfl coaching record. Racism sucks and has no place in society. I just don’t think it applies here

    =====================================
    ====================

    Kyle Shanahan (who is the best coach in the NFL in my opinion) was below .500 entering week 11 this season. Do you really think that a minority coach could make it 5 1/2 years below. 500? Because I dont.

  42. The idea that these guys aren’t being considered due to the lawsuit likely has some validity, but, If not hiring someone while they’re in the process of suing you is legally discrimination, that law should be changed. Nobody should be forced into an employer / employee relationship under those circumstances.

  43. I guess it’s the pinnacle of a coaches life, but I don’t know why anyone in their right mind would want to be a head coach in today’s NFL.

  44. I think it should be noted that Flores sued the Giants for a sham interview, and then hiring a coach that Flores felt he was more qualified than. What did that coach do? Take the woeful Giants, bereft of talent, to the playoffs and likely win Coach of the Year.

  45. Listen, if a coach wins, nothing else matters, skin color, religion, gender, nationality, etc… As Al Davis said “Just win baby!”

  46. You go start a business and refuse to hire family because of ‘racism’ and Rooney rule. Good luck with that. Also, nepotism is rampant in politics and academics so do NOT lay blame solely at the NFL.

  47. I’m not saying there isn’t racism, but look at the Giants from last year. It was the owner who wanted Flores but the new GM had a relationship with Daboll. It was not a sham interview, but the owners finally did the right thing by allowing the GM to make the call.

    Besides, the whole point of the Giants hire was to fix Daniel Jones and the offense. When you consider Flores wrecked Tua and Daboll helped Allen, it was a clear choice even before this years results.

    Florio, along with the media in general, is now painting every non black hire as racism when each hire needs to be looked at individually. That said, I can’t explain Joe Judge

  48. wlubake says:
    January 27, 2023 at 11:46 am
    I think it should be noted that Flores sued the Giants for a sham interview, and then hiring a coach that Flores felt he was more qualified than. What did that coach do? Take the woeful Giants, bereft of talent, to the playoffs and likely win Coach of the Year.
    =======================================================================

    Which does not change the fact that it was a sham interview and therefore against the rules/law. Also when did Flores say that he was “more qualified” than Daboll?

  49. My specific question would be why wasn’t Steve Wilks hired by Carolina? That may not be the fans’ business, but I think it’s at the center of this situation and the NFL should delve into it. We can all speculate, but what is the actual reason that Tepper let him go?

  50. There needs to be more POC hirings at the coordinator level. Especially offensive coordinator. Why doesn’t Duce Staley get an offensive coordinator interview? Ever? The man can coach offense. And he’s a leader of men. What gives?

    How about Brian Johnson? The current Eagles QB coach and former O coordinator at Florida for 3 years. Why can’t he get a coordinator job in the NFL?

    Coordinator is head coach training. Until that changes, black coaches won’t be getting the opportunities they deserve.

  51. It is the Rooney Rule to blame. Things have gotten worse since it was put in. Can’t regulate such things as progress as it will take off best on its own. Giving people sham interviews isn’t the fault of the team but the rule they put in place.

  52. The funniest and most damning bit of info was that Belichick texted BRIAN Flores instead of BRIAN Daboll that Daboll got the job.
    Talk about checking names before pushing send!

  53. This is probably why there was such a delay in new coach hires. They were waiting for someone else to hire Flores or another minority coach first.

  54. It seems like owners haven’t had an issue hiring minority GMs the last two cycles, are they only discriminating when it comes to coaches?

  55. milehigh777 says:
    January 27, 2023 at 11:31 am
    The Broncos hired Vance Joseph for two years and that was a disaster

    ===========================================

    The Broncos Also hired Nathaniel Hackett Josh McDaniels and Vic fangio who were disasters. What’s your point?

  56. Why do people keep saying Wilkes had a bad record in his one season in Arizona?

    Please,someone check Jimmy Johnson’s record in Dallas year 1. I’ll even throw in year 2, if year 1 doesn’t drive home the point.

    Good thing the Cowboys didn’t fire him, huh?

  57. Lets be real. No court in any land will EVER be able to rule that an owner MUST do this or that regarding this issue. And anyone who thinks they ever will is kidding themselves.To say there is NO real solution for this situation sounds like throwing in the towel. But its not really. There is no way on earth to either dictate or know what is in anyone’s heart or mind. Nor can anyone, any entity ever dictate what should or should not be in anyone’s heart or mind. If there were NO nfl coaches of color, and never had been any, then you would have an argument. You still would NOT be able to do ANYTHING about it though. Not really.

  58. BuckyBadger says:
    January 27, 2023 at 12:03 pm
    It is the Rooney Rule to blame. Things have gotten worse since it was put in. Can’t regulate such things as progress as it will take off best on its own. Giving people sham interviews isn’t the fault of the team but the rule they put in place

    =========================
    ============================

    Only interviewing white people for decades was the teams fault. The Rooney Rule only exist because owner knew that a lawsuit was coming and they would lose so they had to do something. So the owner are to blame for their Rule and their performance.

  59. One of the best ways to overcome stereotypes and racism is through education. Another way is by visually seeing black men in leadership positions. We still live in a highly segregated society, so most of us would only be able to see that on TV. Pro sports are one of the only areas where you see black people in very important leadership positions. Since the NFL is by far the highest rated thing on TV, most of the time we see black people in leadership positions is when we’re watching NFL games. So, the NFL is perhaps the single most successful force in the world at breaking down stereotypes, and combating racism. We should praising the NFL, and all their hard work fighting racism. If we try to interfere, and end up destroying the great work the NFL is doing, black people are going to suffer the consequences. This is a sensitive topic, and not many of us understand the way to make progress, obviously. Effort is one thing, but you have to channel that energy in a positive way. Don’t use all that good energy to actually end up hurting the cause. I’ve lived in every region of the country, and most of the blacks I’ve seen in leadership roles was when I was watching them coach NFL games on TV. Thank you NFL for all you’ve done to make America a better place, and to fight against racism and discrimination against blacks. It’s definitely an uphill battle, but the NFL is fighting on the front lines of the battlefield.

  60. Let’s put race aside for the moment (yes there’s probably some informal and in some cases unintentional racial vetting going on). Let’s look at these coaches individually.

    Flores and Wilks both seem to be talented defensive coaches. But nothing on their resumes screams defensive guru. Horton has a more extensive resume as a DC and has had some success but again nothing screams dominant defensive architect to me.

    Florio’s article mentions these coach’s short term Head Coaching records..and sure that should be taken into account. BUT WHAT DO MOST TEAMS LOOKING FOR A HEADCOACH WANT? Generally they want someone that can either construct a successful offense and develop a Quarterback, construct a lights out defense and/or has a significant track record as a head coach.

    Let’s look at the head coaches in the playoffs
    Chefs – Andy Reid – Offensive Head Coach and can develop QBs
    Bengals – Zac Taylor – Offensive Head Coach and has developed Burrow
    Bills – Sean McDermott- Defensive Coordinator
    Ravens – John Harbaugh – Special Teams Coordinator and DB Coach (a coaching outlier)
    Dolphins – Mike McDaniel – Offensive Coordinator
    Chargers – Brandon Staley – Defensive Coordinator
    Jaguars – Doug Pederson – former Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator
    Eagles – Nick Siriani -Offensive Coordinator
    49ers – Kyle Shanahan – Offensive Coordinator
    Vikings – Kevin O’Connell – Offensive Coordinator
    Buccaneers – Todd Bowles Defensive Coordinator
    Cowboys – Mike McCarthy – Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator
    Giants – Brian Dabol – Offensive Coordinator
    Seahawks – Pete Carroll – Head Coach and Defensive Coordinator/”guru”
    Last Year’s Super Bowl Champ Rams – Sean McVay

    So of all of the teams in the playoffs the Seahawks, Bucs, Chargers, Ravens and Bills have Defensive Coaches. Carroll is a longtime head coach and defensive guru. Harbaugh is sort an outlier as primarily Special Teams Coordinator. But Staley, McDermott and Bowles all brought in seasoned or hot/up and coming offensive coordinators which I believe is a big deal (Bowles mostly inherited his coaches and kept the existing OC Leftwich…who had success with Brady until last season). Of course Leftwich and Lombardi (with the Chargers) have been fired…but at the time they were considered desirable offensive coordinators by teams who were hiring defensive head coaches.

    So in term of creating a lights out defense and/or developing an offense and a quarterback…Flores, Wilks and Horton just don’t “move the needle” for me as Head Coaching Candidates. That being said, the Jeff Saturday thing in Indy is inexplicable. Jeff must have incriminating evidence on Isray.

  61. Media driven. No one cares about the color of a coach, not even owners. its about making money, and winning does that. if a black coach can help a team win, then he’ll be hired.

  62. Ridiculous! God forbid the best man for the job cannot be hired! Owners don’t hesitate to give minorities with troubled pasts 2nd or 3rd chances paying them millions as players why would they hesitate with a coach? They will do ANYTHING to make their team successful! They lie, cheat, steal and do anything for their team

  63. Players sign one -year ‘prove-it’ deals all the time to ‘rehabilitate’ their reputation for their current team or another in free agency. Tepper afforded Wilkes that favor: a chance to rehabilitate his image in the NFL. Why didn’t he get interviews with other teams? With his whining to the media, Wilkes probably has reversed any positive impressions he created while coaching the Panthers. At least Flores is willing to accept other coaching positions offered other than HC.

  64. Truthfully, if somebody is suing me for any reason, there’s no way I’m hiring them. To do so would be, at best, a conflict of interest and at worst, perceived as a bold attempt to sway the litigation. Not happening.

  65. So what this is beginning to look like…

    Is that Not only do NFL teams have to hire Black Head Coaches…

    But once they do…. they better not think about firing them.

  66. What, then, could justify hiring Dennis Allen as the Saints HC last year? His previous experience as HC of the Raiders was shameful: he took a team that was 8-8 under Hugh Jackson and proceeded to run them into the ground: 4-12, 4-12, and was finally fired after four straight losses the next season. (That’s 8-28, .222%). If the criteria for a HC candidate is that they win games, was DA really the best candidate?

  67. “Wilks won six of 12 games as the interim coach of the Panthers, and he didn’t get the job.” .500 record gets you a NFL coaching gig? Look at the competition, Reich’s at 40-33-1. Just saying.

  68. mikecrabtreeschain says:
    January 27, 2023 at 11:36 am

    Kyle Shanahan (who is the best coach in the NFL in my opinion) was below .500 entering week 11 this season. Do you really think that a minority coach could make it 5 1/2 years below. 500? Because I dont.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    Well your wrong. Marvin Lewis had a losing record thru his first 8 seasons and still got 8 more without winning anything. I agree more minorities should get chances but while i agree a coach shouldn`t be hired because his skin is white and the other`s is black i also think a coach shouldn`t be because is skin is black and the other`s is white! I don`t know the answer for racism but i know the answer isn`t reverse racism.

  69. This is all bull crap !! An owner should be able to hire anyone they want. I don’t care if they are blue, green, black, white, red or yellow….if I feel that is the right person for the job, I’m hiring them. I’ve earned that right owning the team. Maybe these coaches are just not that good??

  70. traptses says:
    January 27, 2023 at 10:44 am
    A HC record of 24-25 or 6-6 doesn’t exactly scream a must-have coach

    ———-

    That’s a higher winning % than BB has without Tom Brady

  71. Owners only want to win and you won’t convince me otherwise. Any one of them would hire literally anyone or anything if that believed they’d win. Biases I assume exist. Name recognition like sharing a last one with a historical coach is a thing.

  72. If Flores does not get a good gig maybe the Steelers get another year of a good assistant. Hate to wish ill for the guy but…

    Leftwich and Bieniemy are the real tests for the league. Both successful, highly regarded ocs in an offense happy league. If they are not in the consideration something stinks.

  73. You can use Kyle Shanahan as example. The roster was completely gutted and he had to start from scratch and still one his last 5 or 6 games of his first season. 2nd Season the QB1 was lost for the season. 3rd year the 49ers were NFC champions. 4th year was the pandemic year. 5 and 6 years they went back to contending for championships. Kyle has been the model coach and made the 49ers the model franchise that everybody’s wants a piece of and poaches our coaches and front office every year.
    The NFL just has a network of coaches that are continuously recycled. Even Jim Caldwell is in that network. That’s why the NFL game’s paradigm really hasn’t shifted in quite some time. No new innovative concepts and approaches to football, with the exception of Kyle and Greg Roman. I believe the best coaching is in college. The NFL brand of football, thought entertaining, is quite stale and vanilla.

  74. No it is not. Nothing else to be said. You cannot yell racism when you got the job not once but two times and failed. As well as every coach fired before the season was over is white. Explain that. Maybe stop blaming others and concentrate on being a winner instead of a whiner…

  75. traptses says:
    January 27, 2023 at 10:44 am
    A HC record of 24-25 or 6-6 doesn’t exactly scream a must-have coach

    ———-

    That’s a higher winning % than BB has without Tom Brady

    Hmmmm what about Jeff Saturday at 1-7… seems like your thought process is wrong

  76. Aren’t there enough minority coaches %-wise. The list of African American coaches current and former that I can list is pretty extensive

  77. taug107 says:
    January 27, 2023 at 12:41 pm
    Hiring based on race or skin color is in fact RACIST.

    —————–

    To move from an inequitable situation to an equitable situation you can’t do nothing.

    What do you suggest the league should do to help minority candidates have more opportunity for head coaching positions if you disagree with the Rooney Rule?

  78. johnc44 says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:20 pm
    mikecrabtreeschain says:
    January 27, 2023 at 11:36 am

    Kyle Shanahan (who is the best coach in the NFL in my opinion) was below .500 entering week 11 this season. Do you really think that a minority coach could make it 5 1/2 years below. 500? Because I dont.
    ——————————————————————————————————————————————————–
    Well your wrong. Marvin Lewis had a losing record thru his first 8 seasons and still got 8 more without winning anything. I agree more minorities should get chances but while i agree a coach shouldn`t be hired because his skin is white and the other`s is black i also think a coach shouldn`t be because is skin is black and the other`s is white! I don`t know the answer for racism but i know the answer isn`t reverse racism

    ====================================================================================
    Marvin Lewis was above .500 in his third season. 27-21. He had proven that he could lead the worst franchise is sports to respectability. Shanahan got above .500 in November. Sorry champ your excuses don’t explain away facts.

  79. Bottom line. If Flores had completed the tank his first year in Miami, Joe Borrow would be the Dolphins QB and Flores would probably still be the HC. Ross gave him two more years to create a playoff team, he didn’t.

  80. I don’t know why this is still an issue. If you watch the NFL at all you already know that if your team doesn’t have that guy at QB, you have nothing. I don’t care who the coach is, if your QB is trash I don’t care what color you coach is, you’re still not winning anything. Look how Belichick is doing without Brady, it doesn’t matter. If Flores takes the Arizona job he isn’t doing anything unless Kyler plays great. What’s DeMeco Ryans going to do in Houston with that QB situation? Nothing.

  81. Mike Florio’s publicly calling the NFL “Club Oligarch” shows he has the courage to speak the truth.

  82. Will it happen in open court, where justice is dispensed equally
    ++++++
    I thought you were a lawyer at one point?

  83. tavisteelersfan says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:36 pm

    If Flores does not get a good gig maybe the Steelers get another year of a good assistant. Hate to wish ill for the guy but…

    Leftwich and Bieniemy are the real tests for the league. Both successful, highly regarded ocs in an offense happy league. If they are not in the consideration something stinks.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Leftwich just got fired from his OC job and Bieniemy has some history that hurts his chances of being the face of a franchise so i think the real test would be if Demeco Ryans doesn`t get a job!
    I would have a lot more confidence in him creating the right locker room culture than Leftwich or Beineimy.

  84. footstepsfalco says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:31 pm
    Owners only want to win and you won’t convince me otherwise. Any one of them would hire literally anyone or anything if that believed they’d win. Biases I assume exist. Name recognition like sharing a last one with a historical coach is a thing.

    ————–

    I have no doubt if a minority coach was clearly the best candidate an owner would hire them. However, how do coaches like Leftwich or Bieniemy get opportunities to be “clearly the best” if they don’t get a chance in the first place. This is the problem. To create an equal playing field, more minority coaches need to be given a chanced to be a head coach.

  85. Could the focus their entire time and effort on coaching a new team or would they be too busy with the ongoing lawsuit?

  86. It’s amazing the contradictions that take place when one tries to support a stance or make an argument.
    Let’s be clear here…. Laws are not broken, rules are not broken and no one’s rights are violated by weighing and giving merit to all actions and known or assumed information about a candidate.
    Actions have consequences, you can’t say that in one situation and not apply it to all..(A.Rodgers, D.Snyder, Kanye West, D.Watson, M.Araiza, J.Gruden, C.Kaepernick etc)
    Flores & Wilks made choices that have a negative impact on them as candidates. It is perfectly okay to give those choices they made weight, those choices matter.
    An owner that gives weight to possibly being sued (because the precedence has been set by these candidates) is lawful in doing so.
    So as long as the candidate was fairly considered and was not dismissed solely as retaliation for suing the league it is fair situation. It may not be an even situation, don’t confuse fair and even.

  87. Jim Czerwinski says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:24 pm
    This is all bull crap !! An owner should be able to hire anyone they want. I don’t care if they are blue, green, black, white, red or yellow….if I feel that is the right person for the job, I’m hiring them. I’ve earned that right owning the team. Maybe these coaches are just not that good??

    ————-

    You would judge the “right person for the job” based on their experience I guess right?
    Well those with the best experience are more likely to be white, so you would most likely hire a white coach. Perpetuating a racist system does not require you personally to be racist. The only way to end it is to give minority coaches more opportunities.

  88. “Kyle Shanahan (who is the best coach in the NFL in my opinion) was below .500 entering week 11 this season. Do you really think that a minority coach could make it 5 1/2 years below. 500? Because I dont.”

    —————————————————————————————-

    Ill take marvin lewis for 500 Alex. 16 years with ZERO playoff wins. 16!!

  89. 49ersfury says:
    January 27, 2023 at 3:03 pm
    You can use Kyle Shanahan as example. The roster was completely gutted and he had to start from scratch and still one his last 5 or 6 games of his first season. 2nd Season the QB1 was lost for the season. 3rd year the 49ers were NFC champions. 4th year was the pandemic year. 5 and 6 years they went back to contending for championships. Kyle has been the model coach and made the 49ers the model franchise that everybody’s wants a piece of and poaches our coaches and front office every year.
    The NFL just has a network of coaches that are continuously recycled. Even Jim Caldwell is in that network. That’s why the NFL game’s paradigm really hasn’t shifted in quite some time. No new innovative concepts and approaches to football, with the exception of Kyle and Greg Roman. I believe the best coaching is in college. The NFL brand of football, thought entertaining, is quite stale and vanilla

    //////////////////////////////////////////

    When black coaches go to a team “completely gutted roster” they get fired well before year 6. Shanahan was 29-35 through 4 seasons. Jim Caldwell got fired for having one losing season only when his QB missed the entire season. The owners are the paradigm that does not change.

  90. “bullcharger says:
    January 27, 2023 at 3:35 pm”

    “You would judge the “right person for the job” based on their experience I guess right?
    Well those with the best experience are more likely to be white, so you would most likely hire a white coach. Perpetuating a racist system does not require you personally to be racist. The only way to end it is to give minority coaches more opportunities”

    Your solution is to give the minority an opportunity possibly & in spite of not being the best candidate to right the valid or perceived wrongs of the past?
    Essentially giving plus value or weight to the color of a minority’s skin color in a hiring process is a racist discriminatory practice. This is no answer to fixing anything and only speaks to you be excepting of racist and discriminatory practices so long as they do not effect a minority.
    The only fix for the past is being smarter and better people as a whole then those that preceded us. Color of ones skin needs to be a non issue, it should hold no weight whatsoever. Color needs to be 100% irrelevant in every choice any human makes. Time and being better people are the only thing that will work. This goes for all races when one views the other. 100% inclusivity by all races in this thought process is needed to end all racism and discrimination.

  91. When you put in a sham rule that says you have to interview someone based on the color of their skin, then you will get sham interviews. Brian Flores is suing the Texans for racial discrimination even though the last two head coaches they had were black, and DeMeco Ryans who they’re about to hire is also black. Maybe they just didn’t want Brian Flores to be their head coach. It had nothing to do with the color of his skin. Maybe if Brian Flores was as good of a coach as DeMeco Ryans, the Texans would’ve hired him

  92. Last year there were five black head coaches in the NFL. That is 15% of the head coaching positions. When you consider that the black population in the United States is 13%, the 15% number is representative of the population at large. Black coaches in head coach and positions are neither over represented or under represented in the NFL. If you try to make the claim that 70% of the NFL is black so 70% of the head coach in positions must be black, that is to believe that the skill set for being a good head coach is the same skill set for being a good football player, when the skill sets are completely opposite. To be a good football player you need to be big and strong and fast and athletic and physically tough. None of those traits which make a football player great, have anything to do with making a good coach

  93. bullcharger says:

    January 27, 2023 at 3:25 pm

    footstepsfalco says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:31 pm
    Owners only want to win and you won’t convince me otherwise. Any one of them would hire literally anyone or anything if that believed they’d win. Biases I assume exist. Name recognition like sharing a last one with a historical coach is a thing.

    ————–

    I have no doubt if a minority coach was clearly the best candidate an owner would hire them. However, how do coaches like Leftwich or Bieniemy get opportunities to be “clearly the best” if they don’t get a chance in the first place. This is the problem. To create an equal playing field, more minority coaches need to be given a chanced to be a head coach.
    ———–
    For Bieniemy and Leftwich all they need to do is get time machines. Bieniemy if not for previous off field possibly would have a HC job(although we dont how he interviews so that could be his issue), for Leftwich he was seemingly the frontrunner in Jacksonville last yr before he started to make a power play(if rumors at the time are to be believed) and now has been fired so WHY should he be talked about as a HC?

  94. johnc44 says:
    January 27, 2023 at 3:24 pm
    tavisteelersfan says:
    January 27, 2023 at 2:36 pm

    If Flores does not get a good gig maybe the Steelers get another year of a good assistant. Hate to wish ill for the guy but…

    Leftwich and Bieniemy are the real tests for the league. Both successful, highly regarded ocs in an offense happy league. If they are not in the consideration something stinks.
    ————————————————————————————————————————————————-
    Leftwich just got fired from his OC job and Bieniemy has some history that hurts his chances of being the face of a franchise so i think the real test would be if Demeco Ryans doesn`t get a job!
    I would have a lot more confidence in him creating the right locker room culture than Leftwich or Beineimy

    //////////////////////////
    ///////////////////////////////////

    Mike Vrabel had the same background issues as Bieniemy only much more recent. And Mike McCarthy had the worst offense in the NFL as an offensive coordinator the year before he became a headcoach. So If those issues do not disqualify white coaches do not give those issues as excuses for disqualifying minorities.

  95. Jim Irsay hired both Jim Caldwell and Tony Dungy as head coaches, but because he might not hire a minority this year he’s a racist?

  96. ob2040 says:

    Last year there were five black head coaches in the NFL. That is 15% of the head coaching positions. When you consider that the black population in the United States is 13%, the 15% number is representative of the population at large. Black coaches in head coach and positions are neither over represented or under represented in the NFL. If you try to make the claim that 70% of the NFL is black so 70% of the head coach in positions must be black, that is to believe that the skill set for being a good head coach is the same skill set for being a good football player, when the skill sets are completely opposite.

    To add to this, it’s interesting how people will use mixed logic with these statistics. Somehow it is evidence of racism that 70% of coaches are not black, since 70% of players are. But, it is NOT racist that white players make up less than 30% of players even though they comprise a much greater percentage of the population. Of course it would be absurd to argue that white players are being discriminated against. I believe owners will hire the people who think will allow them to win. Ditto for coaching hires.

    It’s just…you can use statistics to argue any point you want.

  97. “mikecrabtreeschain says:
    January 27, 2023 at 4:27 pm

    Mike Vrabel had the same background issues as Bieniemy only much more recent. And Mike McCarthy had the worst offense in the NFL as an offensive coordinator the year before he became a headcoach. So If those issues do not disqualify white coaches do not give those issues as excuses for disqualifying minorities”—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    Mike McCarthy is irrelevant in the discussion as an OC who’s offensive prowess and track record spoke for itself when hired by the Packers.

    Comparing Vrabel’s off field issues with Bienemy’s is a joke.
    A bar fight in college and as a player having a Bar Bill dispute that was later rectified is not remotely the same as Bieniemy.
    Look into the details of Bienemy’s multiple encounters especially what he did and said to a female parking attendant, the shoving of a Firefighter that was on duty and working to put a fire out at Eric’s Mom’s house, as well as his DUI and multiple other suspensions of his drivers license.
    What he did and said to that female parking attendant would preclude Bieniemy from ever being my head coach if I owned a team. And rightfully so.

  98. layers are being discriminated against. I believe owners will hire the people who think will allow them to win. Ditto for coaching hires.

    It’s just…you can use statistics to argue any point you want.

    20Rate This
    NewYorkLion says:
    January 27, 2023 at 5:55 pm
    “mikecrabtreeschain says:
    January 27, 2023 at 4:27 pm

    Mike Vrabel had the same background issues as Bieniemy only much more recent. And Mike McCarthy had the worst offense in the NFL as an offensive coordinator the year before he became a headcoach. So If those issues do not disqualify white coaches do not give those issues as excuses for disqualifying minorities”—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–

    Mike McCarthy is irrelevant in the discussion as an OC who’s offensive prowess and track record spoke for itself when hired by the Packers.

    Comparing Vrabel’s off field issues with Bienemy’s is a joke.
    A bar fight in college and as a player having a Bar Bill dispute that was later rectified is not remotely the same as Bieniemy.
    Look into the details of Bienemy’s multiple encounters especially what he did and said to a female parking attendant, the shoving of a Firefighter that was on duty and working to put a fire out at Eric’s Mom’s house, as well as his DUI and multiple other suspensions of his drivers license.
    What he did and said to that female parking attendant would preclude Bieniemy from ever being my head coach if I owned a team. And rightfully so.

    =================================
    ==========================================

    Mike McCarthy “offensive prowess” as an OC. His teams ranked 10th, 10th, 11th, 19th, 15th and 32nd. Bryon Leftwich 32nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 25th plus a superbowl championship. Leftwich has a better “offensive prowess” than MCcarthy .

    Bieniemy off the field issues were 20-30 years ago. Vrabels 10 years ago.Big difference. Tom cable had multiple domestic accusations and assault and fellow assistant while in the NFL as recently as 2009 and was receiving as much consideration as Bieniemy as has. He was up for the 9ers head coaching job in 2017. Again if arrest/violence do not matter for white coaching candidates then it should not matter for black candidates.

  99. This is so stupid. Undoubtedly, there are coaches with legitimate complaints. Steve Wilks of all people is not one of them.

    28 games as an NFL head coach.
    1 win against an above .500 team.

    2022: 6-6 record as Carolina Panthers interim HC (promoted from secondary coach). Gave up 37 points to a putrid ATL offense and 30 to a struggling Bucs offense to destroy any chance of winning the weakest division in NFL history.

    2021: 113th/130 ranked D1 defense as Missouri Tigers DC.

    2020: Out of football.

    2019: 20th/32 ranked defense as Cleveland Browns DC.

    2018: 3-13 record as Arizona Cardinals HC.

    So that’s Wilks’ resume the last 5 years.

    You are about to embark on a major rebuild and developing a QB is job 1. Would you hire a good defensive backs coach who has never coached offense before and has that resume as a DC and a HC?

    As an aside…..the Panthers hired Wilks back into the league. They then promoted him to interim HC even through Bob McAdoo has more head coaching experience. They also forfeited any draft compensation they might have received if another team hired him. He had history with the organization and they probably thought they were doing him a solid by giving him a chance to showcase himself and they get blackmailed instead.

    Why would any other team in the NFL look at this happening and ever promote a minority assistant to interim HC ever again? Explain it to me like I’m 5.

  100. I dunno. Seems like grasping at straws trying to make everything fit a certain narrative.

    To me Wilks was 40/60,50/50 at best to get the permanent gig. 6-6? Would have felt like settling, cheaping out to me over upgrading if theyed stuck with him, but it seems some feel it should have went to Wilks based on reasons other than record.

    Then of course Jeff Saturday is brought up to “strengthen the case”. Somehow Jim Irsay being an idiot owner isnt part of the discussion.

    What we know for sure is the media loves stirring the pot to keep it fresh.

  101. Off field issues are weighed as a variable. Comparing Vrabel to Bienienmy is ridiculous on the weight of what both have done. McCarthy with zero off field issues and with his offensive prowess are also not relevant as McCarthy’s all four years with the Saints rank in the top 10 at his time and he was the OC with all responsibilities . Bieniemy has done nothing without Arians. In the 2 years he was a OC without Arians he was 32nd ranked and 25th …Everybody knows who constructed the offense in Tampa, who did the game planning etc. Bieniemy with very much the same players in 2022 as in 2021 with Arians dragged the offense from a 2nd ranked Offense to a 25th ranked offense this season without Arians. Explain it? You wont, you cant.

  102. First of all Bieniemy is the offensive coordinator for the Kansas city chiefs not Tampa. Secondly McCarthy had two top 10 offenses in 2000 and 2001 hen the saints were 10th both seasons. After that 11, 15, 19, 25th. He then went to 9ers and had one the worst offenses in NFL history. Leftwich coach under Arians in Tampa. And it has been widely reported that Arians did not actually do anything. He let his Coordinators run the team hence the reason Brady didn’t want him back. They ranked 25th this year because they had a half committed 46 year old QB with massive injuries and no offensive line. Why did McCarthy rank 25th and 32nd during his last 2 season as an offensive coordinator? Even if Arians did construct the entire offense (he didn’t) why does that stop Sean McVay assistants white like Kevin O’Connell and Zac Taylor from getting gigs? Same for Andy Reids white Coordinators? Why does this suddenly become a problem only for black coaches?

  103. Jim Caldwell is the guy who is getting screwed over and should be talked about. He was a solid head coach. Before that a great OC and Peyton Manning’s mentor. He took Indy to the SB, he won in Detroit and was far better than any coach they had since COMBINED. Now what gives with him not getting another shot to be a HC? It was well documented Flores clashed with the Dolphins GM (who btw is black) and he badly wanted Watson. He even interviewed for the NYG and said he would like for Watson to be the QB. Can you blame those teams not wanting to deal with that? Plus…the Texans actually hired a black head coach, Lovie Smith, over Flores. Of course that turned out to be a huge joke hiring and unfair to Lovie, who got his bad team to play hard all year…and then was fired. As for Wilks…he did a solid job with the mess he took over this season during the season but in a division which was won by an 8-9 team. He went 3-13 with the Cardinals before being fired. Many at the time saw his hiring as being questionable.

  104. It’s interesting that most of the commenters here can’t see the purpose of the Rooney Rule, given that minority coaches were kept out of the league for decades.

    The rule is not a perfect solution, but it’s also not about “forcing a team to hire someone they don’t want”. It’s about creating opportunities for minorities within the league structure.

    It’s interesting to see how angry many people get about this.

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